{"error":false,"id":["168771"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168771,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168771","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T09:24:50+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T09:31:37+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442f31192d10c0ed7d447e947452b2762635c559c9b7407d71c6ffb1ffb47bf31ea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪毓祥","委員發言時間":"09:24:50 - 09:31:37","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金。(詢答)\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":0.06471875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":7.87784375,"end":9.160343750000003,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":9.26159375,"end":11.42159375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":12.130343750000002,"end":13.09221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":16.41659375,"end":17.12534375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":17.59784375,"end":22.57596875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":22.609718750000003,"end":43.70346875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":43.87221875,"end":52.51221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":52.71471875,"end":60.03846875000001,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":60.055343750000006,"end":70.82159375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":71.14221875,"end":76.84596875000001,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":77.14971875,"end":78.65159375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":78.90471875,"end":118.56096875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":118.71284375,"end":122.77971875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":122.99909375000001,"end":130.22159375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":130.49159375000002,"end":139.19909375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":139.30034375,"end":151.58534375000002,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":151.97346875000002,"end":156.34409375,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":156.34409375,"end":160.98471875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":161.92971875,"end":172.12221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":172.34159375000002,"end":175.56471875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":175.98659375,"end":200.69159375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":181.55534375000002,"end":181.65659375,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":182.39909375000002,"end":183.02346875,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":183.02346875,"end":185.87534375,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":200.97846875000002,"end":222.57846875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":219.38909375,"end":220.08096875,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":226.71284375000002,"end":238.06971875000002,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":238.37346875000003,"end":251.97471875000002,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":252.21096875,"end":267.22971875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":267.70221875000004,"end":271.85346875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":272.68034375,"end":280.67909375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":281.18534375,"end":296.23784375,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":296.55846875000003,"end":311.49284375,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":310.00784375,"end":317.97284375000004,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":318.96846875,"end":319.67721875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":320.45346875,"end":321.28034375000004,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":321.53346875,"end":322.42784375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":324.40221875000003,"end":329.16096875,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":328.26659375,"end":333.31221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":333.73409375,"end":348.16221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":348.65159375,"end":353.35971875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":353.76471875000004,"end":375.24659375000005,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":375.76971875000004,"end":387.91971875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":388.35846875000004,"end":395.51346875,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":393.55596875000003,"end":393.94409375000004,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":394.31534375,"end":404.37284375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":395.78346875,"end":395.96909375,"speaker_score":0.949},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":407.08971875000003,"end":407.96721875000003,"speaker_score":0.949}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.083,"end":0.864,"text":"我們有請公平會主委我們請公平會"},{"start":18.65,"end":37.043,"text":"這個我想這個第一個我想之前大家很多委員都問過了所以我大概也不用需要你回答大概就是說因為不管在因為我覺得這個東西還會一直在發生不管是將來什麼事件所以可能在你交給我們的一個報告裡面去告訴我們說什麼時候會偵測到這種所謂的一個不夠啦 囤賭啦 對不對漲價聯合這種議題"},{"start":44.008,"end":70.595,"text":"那做了什麼處理 處理時間多久那當然你是怎麼確認這個結案好不好這個再書面回覆給我們好 是那今天要跟談的就是說上次我們談到Grab對不對他併購了這個那Grab後面還有Uber所以在這裡頭的話我還是想要提醒公平會因為我看你們的預算可能這一塊沒有特別的highlight出來可能藏在這個某些項目底下"},{"start":71.235,"end":98.513,"text":"那我比較擔心的就是我上次談的演算法平台數據這邊的競爭因為現在的話呢我覺得它已經不是像單純之前我們講的在討論的Foodpanda跟這個Uber的一個合併它現在的話透過這樣子併購下來之後其實我從科技的角度我比較擔心的是這種跨國的Super的APP的數據跟它這種演算法黑箱的一個不透明的一個拱段"},{"start":99.574,"end":127.248,"text":"那這個地方會對我們造成的影響就是說因為你Grab有這些的數據再加上Foodpanda然後他背後的股東還是有Uber所以這兩個平台的演算法的一致性或者是調解或是他採取的機制加上這些數據說實在的他可能會影響到我們整個的動態定價那不管是形成對外送員或者是消費者或者是這個店家"},{"start":128.348,"end":154.975,"text":"的一個平台的一個一個就是對我們的這種數位的這樣子的一個殖民造成我們的一個數位上的剝削那不曉得這一個主委對這個有什麼樣的看法我想委員關鍵的議題在上次我有稍微談過就是說基本上我們不會採過於非常形式的審查所以他背後的股權結構彼此之間是不是有董事兼聰是不是有跨國跨公司持股這個他的控制力的展現都是我們在審查這個案子我們會繼續去觀察的好"},{"start":156.795,"end":181.732,"text":"因為這個地方有點難的地方是在於是說這個他在做這件事情的時候其實那個演算法的透明性他往往會用商業機密的方式那也就是不公開所以你可能沒辦法去直接去detect他那可能就變成是間接所以我才說這個你可能要請一些相關的專家甚至辦很多"},{"start":182.412,"end":197.029,"text":"公聽的討論的會議因為我覺得在這個地方我們先未雨綢繆別人沒看到的東西因為新加坡在做這一塊的地方已經有做一點類似的裁罰你們也可以去參考這樣的案例那為什麼這樣講"},{"start":198.23,"end":220.838,"text":"因為我們的外送專法過了之後雖然我們解決了比如說疊單解決了這個透明度的這個問題但是我覺得在演算法這邊的一個軟停權然後它透過市場供需調節的機制來做我覺得這個是有一些疑慮的好不好這個再請公平會在未來的執行再好好思考是 謝謝接下來的話我們請這個經濟部"},{"start":226.892,"end":248.994,"text":"我想今天另外一個很重要的議題的話基本上我想就是稻採砂石然後再回舔這個問題我相信很多委員都說過了那我這邊的話想要說明的是說雖然我們跟經濟部有溝通過其實我也蠻正向的比如說在加重刑法的罰則"},{"start":249.815,"end":271.493,"text":"但是我覺得在罰款上面還有是不是可以用按日連續處罰直到他恢復為止因為我覺得這樣子的嚇阻力才夠那為什麼像剛剛這個所謂的兩千萬一億是因為我們在海域這海域的稻採這邊你們就開到一億了所以我是覺得你不能說海域跟陸地上有差別"},{"start":273.706,"end":280.233,"text":"這個照請經濟部是不是可以思考因為你不能說我倒在海裡的然後跟這個倒採土地的是不一樣的"},{"start":281.42,"end":304.629,"text":"跟委員說明 首先土石採取法當中目前的這個法則已經是水土保持法或是區域計劃法裡面相對的比較高的第二個部分 事實上我們在採法的時候也要考慮到執法還有包括比例的原則 剛剛委員所說的1億元的部分我們在涉及到盈益的部分或是產生包括"},{"start":305.629,"end":322.227,"text":"人民的生命財產這個安全的這個危害或是因為你的第二條就是這樣這現行法案以傳播其他機械在下列區域中華民國內水不含內陸水域領海這海域嘛阿人陸地跟海域不一樣"},{"start":324.868,"end":348.089,"text":"這個海域的部分因為他現行的這個沒有 我是說一致啦 一致啦 好不好抓在陸地上的人比較多啦這個是我的看法第二個剛剛很多委員也提到過就是說你今天的陌路陰陌路等等其實我覺得這些不管我們要處罰行為人不管是陌路和身材的機具我覺得這些都是強制性要高一點啦"},{"start":348.809,"end":374.982,"text":"就像剛剛那位委員講的來一台我就扣一台來十台我扣十台對不對然後像剛剛邱委員講的就是有時候我們只懲罰到司機或客車那我覺得背後的話這些的真正的幕後主使當然你們的回覆我有跟你們的主委討論過因為他說這個東西可能就是刑法上連帶對不對會去處罰這個後面的集團這樣子所以我這邊也沒有特別僵持但是如果"},{"start":376.562,"end":403.607,"text":"這個行政院的版本願意把這些的連帶後面的背後集團對不對這整個繩之以法不管是透過這個重罰重刑我覺得我們都應該支持好不好目前院裡面審理的這個方向跟委員所說的大致是一致的好那我們就盡快因為剛剛很多人來跟我拜託就說你們行政院的版本快一點就這樣子好不好因為我今天還是要走到前謝謝你啦因為這是很重大的議題謝謝"},{"start":407.221,"end":407.242,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:50.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:50.604000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請公平會。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:50.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:50.864000+08:00","text":"請公平會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:50.864000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:25:08.650000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:25:08.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:25:41.190000+08:00","text":"我想第一個之前很多委員都問過了，我大概也不需要你回答，大概就是說因為我覺得這個東西還會一直再發生，不管將來什麼事件，所以請在你交給我們的報告裡，告訴我們什麼時候會偵測到這種所謂的不夠、囤堵、漲價、聯合這種議題，以及你們做了什麼處理、處理時間多久、將來你怎麼確認結案，請用書面回復給我們。是。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:25:42.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:27:08.971000+08:00","text":"今天要跟你談的就是，上次我們談到Grab併購了foodpanda，Grab後面還有Uber，所以在這裡我還是想要提醒公平會，因為我看你們的預算，這一塊沒有特別的highlight出來，可能藏在某些項目底下，我比較擔心的就是我上次談的演算法、平台、數據這邊的競爭，因為現在我覺得它已經不單純像之前我們在討論的foodpanda跟Uber的合併，現在透過這樣的併購下來之後，我從科技的角度來看，我比較擔心的是跨國super app的數據跟它這種演算法黑箱的、不透明的壟斷，這個地方會對我們造成的影響就是，因為Grab有這些數據，再加上foodpanda，然後它背後的股東還是有Uber，這兩個平台演算法的一致性，或者是調節，或者是它採取的機制，加上這些數據，說實在的，它可能會影響到我們整個的動態定價，形成不管是對外送員、消費者或店家的一個平台的……就是對我們的數位殖民，造成我們在數位上的剝削，不曉得主委對這個有什麼樣的看法？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:27:09.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:27:24.935000+08:00","text":"我想委員關切的議題上次我有稍微談過，就是基本上我們不會採行非常形式的審查，所以它背後的股權結構、彼此之間是否有董事兼充、是不是有跨公司持股、它的控制力的展現都是我們在審查這個案子時會繼續去觀察的。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:27:24.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:27:53.874000+08:00","text":"好，因為這裡有點難的地方是在於，它在做這件事情的時候，對於演算法的透明性，它往往會用商業機密的方式不予公開，所以你可能沒辦法直接去detect它，可能變成是間接，所以我才說這個你可能要請一些相關的專家，甚至辦很多公聽會。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:27:53.874000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:27:54.874000+08:00","text":"是，這個我們都會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:27:54.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:28:05.908000+08:00","text":"討論的會議，因為我覺得在這個地方我們要先未雨綢繆，別人沒看到的東西，因為新加坡在做這一塊的時候已經有做一點類似的裁罰，你們也可以去參考他們的案例。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:28:07.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:28:07.029000+08:00","text":"為什麼我這樣講？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:28:08.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:28:24.776000+08:00","text":"因為我們的外送專法過了之後，雖然解決了比如疊單、透明度的問題，但是我覺得在演算法這邊的軟停權，它透過市場供需調節的機制來做，我覺得是有一些疑慮的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:28:25.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:28:29.118000+08:00","text":"這個再請公平會在未來執行時再好好思考。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:28:29.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:28:30.378000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:28:30.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:28:30.818000+08:00","text":"接下來我們請經濟部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:28:36.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:29:09.863000+08:00","text":"我想今天另外一個很重要的議題基本上就是盜採砂石然後再回填的問題，我相信很多委員都說過了，我想要說明的是，雖然我們跟經濟部有溝通過，其實我也滿正向的，比如加重刑法的罰則，但是我覺得在罰款上面是不是可以用按日連續處罰直到他恢復為止，因為我覺得這樣的嚇阻力才夠。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:29:10.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:29:30.213000+08:00","text":"像剛剛所謂的2,000萬、1億，是因為在海域的盜採你們就開到1億了，我是覺得不能說海域跟陸地上有差別，這個再請經濟部思考，你不能說盜採海裡的跟盜採土地上的是不一樣的。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:29:31.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:29:59.734000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，首先，土石採取法目前的罰則和水土保持法或區域計畫法相比已經是相對比較高的；第二、事實上我們在裁罰的時候也要考慮到執法還有比例原則，關於剛剛委員所說的1億元，我們在涉及營利的部分，或是有造成包括人民的生命財產安全危害，或是……","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:00.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:09.605000+08:00","text":"因為你的第二條就是這樣，這是現行法，「以船舶或其他機械……在下列區域……中華民國內水（不含內陸水域）及領海」，這是海域嘛！","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:10.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:12.227000+08:00","text":"陸地跟海域不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:14.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:18.331000+08:00","text":"海域部分，因為現行這個是海域的……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:18.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:19.472000+08:00","text":"沒有，我是說一致啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:19.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:20.573000+08:00","text":"一致，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:21.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:24.897000+08:00","text":"住在陸地上的人比較多，這個是我的看法。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:25.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:38.069000+08:00","text":"第二個，剛剛很多委員也提過，現今的應沒入等等，其實我覺得這些，不管我們是要處罰行為人或者沒入他的生財機具，我覺得這些都是強制性要高一點啦！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:38.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:30:43.131000+08:00","text":"就像剛剛賴瑞隆委員講的，來1台我就扣1台、來10台我就扣10台，對不對？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:30:43.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:31:17.664000+08:00","text":"然後像剛剛邱委員講的，就是有時候我們只懲罰到司機或卡車司機，我覺得背後這些真正的幕後主使……當然就你們的回復，我跟你們的主任也討論過，因為他說這個東西可能刑法上連帶會處罰後面的集團，所以我這邊也沒有特別堅持，但如果行政院版本願意連帶把這些背後集團整個繩之以法，不管是透過重罰重刑，我覺得我們都應該支持，好不好？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:31:18.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:31:23.125000+08:00","text":"目前院裡面審理的方向跟委員所說的大致是一致，我們特別是對於……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:31:23.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:31:30.346000+08:00","text":"好，那我們就儘快，因為剛剛很多人來跟我拜託，我就說你們行政院的版本快一點，就這樣子，好不好？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:31:30.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:31:32.467000+08:00","text":"因為我今天還是要……謝謝你啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:31:32.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:31:37.242000+08:00","text":"因為這是很重大的議題，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:31:37.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:31:41.170571+08:00","text":"接下來請鍾佳濱委員做詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}