{"error":false,"id":["168775"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168775,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168775","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T09:31:41+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T09:40:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be544260dd4be807d7087447e947452b2762635c559c9b7407d71ce901f84a635eded85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"09:31:41 - 09:40:20","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金。(詢答)\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) 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複雜"},{"start":128.914,"end":151.477,"text":"如果說今天台塑跟中油的董事長拿起電話說明天油價我們來定個什麼價格這是聯合行為很好抓嘛但是如果有A公司他吃又假公司跟乙公司的股權分別都兩邊都派有董事這兩個董事分別在各自的這個董事會提出的意見做了同樣的決定糟糕了這是不是聯合行為會不會有利益綁定你們怎麼看"},{"start":152.297,"end":179.416,"text":"同樣如果有具體的事證 這也有可能構成聯合行為雖然他是少數股權 跨公司的少數股權 是不是讓我們聯合行為的判斷更為複雜更難當然當然 這一直都是一個問題 對是 好 那往下看齁 那麼現有的法律呢要如何平衡四方的交易公平 舉例現在法一個什麼 一個外送專法 對不對外送專法 外送員很重視對於負面的或不利來講 外送員他付出了勞動力 得到了酬勞"},{"start":181.877,"end":205.943,"text":"但是呢他仍然擔心他的權益那就這個平台業者來講呢因為他掌握了資金流跟資訊流可是他還抱怨怎麼樣成本增加同樣的消費者他說我要取得你的外送服務我要付費用那店家也是這樣子啊你讓我曝光有被消費者訂購的這個機會但是你要跟我抽成他們也擔心當你外送平台抱怨成本傷害的時候消費者跟商家都要負擔這個轉嫁的成本主委怎麼看"},{"start":209.176,"end":237.763,"text":"這個就是平台經濟的特色同樣既是共生但是彼此之間存在潛在利益衝突所以公平為的職權有限我們大概只能夠針對他對市場競爭這一塊很好你說職權有限所以我們來看到其他國家的做法剛剛趙也提到了新加坡的模式新加坡有一個公共交通理事會PTC他決定公共運輸的票價他是獨立機關有各界人代表專家票價的調整公司要考慮到CPI工資變動能源價格生產力的提取率"},{"start":238.243,"end":265.937,"text":"還有容量的提升指標等等等廣大社會各界之後呢他所做的費率決定他才能夠獲取勞工的信任也能平衡消費者擔心成本轉押的問題那你認不認為類似的案例政府要不要介入制定費率當然這涉及到跨部會事實上以目前台灣我目前的法治架構其他部會也是有在介入這個案子只是說也許不是像新加坡這麼全面性的是像勞動部他有定義一個費用碼那這樣會造成市場的不效率"},{"start":268.719,"end":291.74,"text":"從當然每個機關看有它各自的職場目標的實現那從公平會角度來看某些的行為我們會提醒部會可能要注意到市場的反應好 那往下看所以現行公平會的審查機制是完善你看你們考慮市佔率 考慮消費者利益對不對 這寫得很清楚啊但是除了市佔率為重點 除了消費者之外勞工跟商家的溢價能力如何保障以這個富培拿這個例子來講"},{"start":292.461,"end":304.62,"text":"Grab這個事情來講你說這個平台業者未來的這個交叉投資還有跨市場的這樣的情況那你怎麼樣只有現有的條文 現有的機制夠嗎只講到消費者利益夠嗎"},{"start":306.431,"end":325.643,"text":"我想譬如說以勞工為例好了勞工的議題當然勞動部他有他關切的焦點以我們的角度來看我們可能會去界定一個勞動力需求的市場然後在這個市場裡面去觀察平台跟勞動力的供給彼此之間的供需的情況一樣回歸到市場精神的機制來審查這個議題一樣可以審但是我們的切入點跟勞動部不會一樣"},{"start":326.664,"end":348.646,"text":"我這樣講有點比較原則比較像在課堂上討論來我們看很具體的企業呢已從市場壟斷進化到生態系的建構我們看到這個超級平台不管是Apple還是Google還是呢這個Amazon你看在美國FTC通通把它起訴壟斷在歐盟呢有數位市場法禁止它壟斷數據剛召委在執行會也講到"},{"start":351.048,"end":376.583,"text":"數位市場法要求開放真的Amazon禁止使用第三方賣家的非公開數據像這些做法公平會都有去蒐集嗎這是在4月執效一個余教授提出來的新考題啊那個跟委員報告一下我們最近發布的這個AI生存式AI的政策聲明裡面我們特別點出未來的競爭太陽可能會逐步走到生態系的競爭這是委員這邊所談的所以包括數位支付商戶的關注但是我要跟委員報告就是說當生態系競爭成型以後"},{"start":378.544,"end":389.954,"text":"那個競爭的對手就會有不一樣對沒有錯就很複雜就越來越複雜往下看所以呢公平會就不應該侷限單一市場的壟斷與否而是因應全球市場的趨勢像你說這樣的一個生態系的情況那麼用龐大生態系跨市場的企業檢視它水平垂直跨市場的影響力再來判斷它是不是會有壟斷會有聯合行為是不是這樣子"},{"start":399.762,"end":419.992,"text":"對這是一個困難的問題但是我們是朝這個目標好那就要求你做因為我們在預算審查所以說今天我們看到以這個來講以這個外送平台來講在資本的部分你們要審查它有沒有要跳脫市佔率的考量要判斷它有沒有實質利率的連結有沒有跨市場優勢這裡面要審查在資本資本端你們要這樣審查就是平台嘛"},{"start":420.592,"end":438.711,"text":"那勞工端呢你們是不是要判斷要不要訂定費率的介入要去評估那目前執法的制定勞動部做了要求確尊專法也有勞動部介入了以商教的部分未來的法人審查演算法可能速發部要接起來但是像房大售啦自我優待啦或強迫折扣是不是公平會也要來對這幾個"},{"start":440.433,"end":461.885,"text":"我說的橘色的這個議題你們要不要評估搭受自我偏好強迫折扣這些東西公平法裡面是可以來審查的所以除了這樣的話其他我紫色的部分是不是要跨部會合作或立法協助我們其實在案子審查當中我們會徵詢其他部會的意見所以實質的跨部會合作是有在做有在做好那最後結論"},{"start":463.246,"end":489.619,"text":"因為以你們剛剛報告您的報告當中有提到你們的有一個反托拉斯基金當中你們的用途是做數位經濟競爭政策研究及倡議計畫對不對是那我希望你們這個計畫在今年的年度要研究公平委針對第一複雜股權交叉持股委的壟斷跟聯合行為的審查方式第二如果市場形成寡占政府要不要介入制定費率制定這兩個部分特別去研究可以嗎"},{"start":490.764,"end":515.731,"text":"我們可以回去研究一下另外我希望公平會在審查GREP的結合案審查完畢之後我們沒有要干預你們審查完畢之後希望你們提一個書面說明說明你們在審查的結果有沒有考量到加沙石穀、跨次財、生態系的優勢勞工的權益如何保障以及商家的保障可以嗎這個我們可以我們要大家看個案的證據當然審查完畢之後我說你們審查完畢之後就這幾個部分出個書面說明可以我可以跟委員說好謝謝公平會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}