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Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) 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你講到這個重點了所以大家都非常的關心因為法律上沒有如此那每一個型態 商業行為它的方式一直變在變那我政府"},{"start":184.744,"end":203.073,"text":"永遠都是那一套的一個法律所以大家關心在您剛剛所說的也是一個重點實質的影響力到底是什麼你務必要納入啊對 這個我們會具體如果我們有疑慮我們會具體要他提供一些事證來配合我們來調查看是不是能夠產生實質的影響力"},{"start":204.454,"end":228.894,"text":"因為這個國內培已經在3月27號你已經向你遞交了收購忽偏大的台灣業務的一個申請所以大家看到這個議題一定要好好的以公平消費者的一個原則這個非常的重要接下來本席要請教在海運的部分還有凱旋以及天性"},{"start":229.844,"end":252.427,"text":"那麼現在它從2019年它透過了共同設立管理公司的一個協調航班以及票款的一個拆分那實質已經形成了聯合排班限制航班的供給那三家業者在布袋跟馬公的航線它的市佔率幾乎將近達到六成"},{"start":253.268,"end":257.49,"text":"它雖然沒有共同的來定價它透過了控制班次跟債容量那等於是讓市場去失去了正常的這個競爭機制那所以這換句話說 也反映了產業它不一定是靠聯合漲價來影響市場 對不對對 你講的沒錯啊 我們聯合企業不是只限於聯合漲價"},{"start":278.658,"end":296.723,"text":"那像這樣子 它透過了聯合限量 聯合排辦 聯合分配市場讓消費者他沒有選擇 奶業者也沒有改立即改善服務的這個量人的一個壓力所以要請教主委 像這樣的一個情況你最後 你最後罰了多少 各罰十萬塊"},{"start":304.161,"end":308.965,"text":"你們的財主是最後個罰十萬塊所以這樣子是不是低估了整個聯合限量對於市場的競爭跟消費者權益的一個傷害那未來你是否會重新"},{"start":320.753,"end":342.309,"text":"去檢討聯合行為的一個裁罰標準因為聯合行為的裁罰的級距是蠻寬的啦所以它有最低到最高一定的級距當然但是我們在個案裡面的裁罰我們會綜合各種因素來判斷那這個案子主要原因是因為我們分析後的結果雖然他們是聯合行為但是他們對市場影響的程度並不是太高我們深怕"},{"start":343.79,"end":355.936,"text":"轉了一個彎轉了一個方式讓業者把划環的部分當成是微不足道的他的一個經營成本但是影響到消費者所以現在本期跟你討論的另外一個議題也就是方式"},{"start":362.799,"end":386.258,"text":"因為業者已經將方式有所做調整那你們必須要去討論現在的經營方式那你們的督導方式要怎麼樣去應對這是本席我個人跟你請教的這個議題的一個重點你去盤點你可以怎麼樣去調整去調整你的方式不讓消費者有所損害無從選擇"},{"start":390.543,"end":409.654,"text":"我想對編合行為對業者的宣導我們是積極在做這可能是我們最重要的一點好你去盤點然後方案怎麼樣調整告訴本席順便資料給本席給個人給我那最後一個議題公平會你在115年不公平競爭行為調查當中你編列了今年度的260"},{"start":411.115,"end":415.8,"text":"226萬9千元那增幅是28.26%比起109年到114年那7月底你的這個第21條跟25條的處分只有15件那你才華的這個總額也"},{"start":428.396,"end":457.108,"text":"只有243萬那但是我們討論一個議題也就是營利營運費用跟採購的限制這兩項這對於整個龐大的市場現在是整個市場的一個趨勢那如果是這樣子你的答案告訴我們只有15件只有200出頭外那等於沒有實質的震懾力那所以呢會嚴重的影響到整個加盟交易的一個次序跟"},{"start":457.748,"end":467.974,"text":"保持事業的一個公平競爭所以本席要請教主委隱匿費用跟強制採購在整個這個家門的契約當中會產生資訊不對等的這兩項項目你是否會落實怎麼樣去保障家門主的一個權益"},{"start":477.979,"end":490.33,"text":"我想這個營利費用跟採購限制這些東西都是在我們的處理原則裡面有明確要求業者在加盟契約書裡面要明確揭露出來所以這整個處分安全通常都是因為他該揭露而沒有揭露對 那怎麼辦呢那我們藉由過去這幾年不斷的積極的宣導那你的宣導就是15件啊 跟200出頭萬的滑環而已啊"},{"start":498.124,"end":511.374,"text":"從我的角度來看 所以你現在自己都狼狼上口可以講說問題出在這裡 該揭露沒揭露啊那該揭露沒揭露 你的罰款又是如此 案件就只有15件 那要怎麼辦你有什麼樣的調整方案去監管我們會積極地去監管這樣的一個行為 那當然宣導也是很重要的事情所以趕快去加強 對 那罰款的部分應該綜合考慮好 趕快去加強 最後我請次長"},{"start":528.857,"end":549.764,"text":"市長我們第二階段呢 召委排定了這個土石這個採取法的這個部分那大家非常關心 包括原住民他們應當要有的權益就陳儒剛剛市長你所說的回歸環境景觀就是大家都非常重視在怎麼樣均衡那這個法案呢"},{"start":552.745,"end":566.757,"text":"的決定是很重要的 怎麼樣去回歸環境的景觀所以不只是在這個第三條原住民的這個部分還有特別就是大家比較爭議的在第36條"},{"start":569.439,"end":587.465,"text":"36條 有原先的2000萬也有說8000萬 也有1億的等等所以待會會實質來討論但是我們覺得很奇怪 既然行政部門認為很重要對於我們整個環境也很重要在這樣的一個情況之下 行政院版為什麼還沒有出來 什麼時候會出來"},{"start":590.805,"end":610.156,"text":"什麼時候會出來剛剛主委委員已經關心過我們希望院裡面兩個禮拜裡面可以送出院版這個部分來第二個部分委員所提到的為什麼討論這麼久不但是抓到犯罪人而已不但是裁罰而已我們重要的是委員講的環境警官要整戶回來"},{"start":611.096,"end":629.941,"text":"因為整戶的部分 威爾尼亞只要涉及到很多的單位包括內政部 包括甚至是農業部的這個部分我們必須要把它細緻的把它溝通做一個比較好的一個整戶因為我們希望這些犯罪行為獲得遏止之外環境還可以去恢復回來"},{"start":631.421,"end":647.245,"text":"這個是我們在努力的這個方向這個非常重要所以剛剛次長你回答就是兩個禮拜內行政院版會出來我們希望說院裡面可以去審核因為大家這麼關心你行政院更要有責任了對不對而且橫向的一個聯繫討論更要積極兩個禮拜內會提出來我們希望可以依照這樣子來努力謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:40:34.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:40:35.095000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:40:35.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:40:37.517000+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔委員發言，邀請公平會。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:40:37.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:40:38.537000+08:00","text":"邀請公平會主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:40:38.537000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:40:43.659000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:40:43.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:40:43.659000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:40:44.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:41:02.128000+08:00","text":"Uber在4月17號宣布，要以2.7億歐元收購德國外送平臺Delivery Hero4.5%的股權，使得他的總持股會達到7%左右。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:41:02.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:41:17.800000+08:00","text":"但是我們也知道Hero正是foodpanda台灣的母公司，Uber本身又有Grab，他大概有13.1%的股權，而且還保有一席董事席次。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:41:18.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:41:30.472000+08:00","text":"換句話說，Uber是Grab收購foodpanda台灣案中的買方股東，同時也是賣方母公司的股東，也就是臺灣市場主要的競爭者。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:41:30.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:41:51.627000+08:00","text":"前年公平會才以合併後市占率過高，恐怕會影響主要競爭者，導致價格上漲的理由，否決了Uber直接收購foodpanda台灣。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:41:52.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:42:11.335000+08:00","text":"雖然作了這樣的決議，但是現在Uber改以入股母公司的方式重新建立利益關係，等於形成了橫跨買賣雙方三角持股的結構。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:42:11.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:42:20.079000+08:00","text":"請教主委在這樣的情況之下，是否會認定Grab是獨立的買方？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:42:21.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:42:41.495000+08:00","text":"未來審查Grab收購foodpanda的這個案子，是否會把Uber的交叉持股、董事席次以及實質利益連結一併納入，才不會發生去年否決，今年就放棄的情況？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:42:41.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:42:41.495000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:42:42.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:42:47.037000+08:00","text":"當然去年的案子跟今年的案子不太一樣，至少就市場結合或結構不一樣。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:42:47.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:42:53.079000+08:00","text":"委員提到這個問題是一個重要的問題，我也一再表示，這個問題我們在審查過程一定會審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:42:53.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:43:06.873000+08:00","text":"要附帶跟委員報告的是，法律上既然沒有禁止公司可以跨公司來持股，假設我們要以跨公司持股對競爭的疑慮來審查這個案子，必須有更多行為面的事證。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:43:06.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:43:15.281000+08:00","text":"所謂行為面的事證就是我們要先預測，甚至於判斷，當他結合以後會不會用契約或是其他方式……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:43:15.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:43:15.981000+08:00","text":"對，你講到重點了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:43:16.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:43:33.967000+08:00","text":"大家都非常關心，因為法律上沒有如此規定，商業行為、型態一變再變，而政府永遠都是那一套法律，所以大家會關心。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:43:34.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:43:40.310000+08:00","text":"您剛才所說的也是一個重點，實質的影響力到底是什麼，務必要納入！","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:43:41.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:43:47.053000+08:00","text":"如果有疑慮，我們會具體要他提供一些事證配合調查，看是不是能夠產生實質的影響力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:43:48.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:44:05.067000+08:00","text":"因為Grab已經在3月27號向你們遞交了收購foodpanda台灣業務的申請，所以這個議題一定要好好以公平消費者的原則處理，這個非常重要。是。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:44:06.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:44:39.409000+08:00","text":"接下來，本席要請教海運的部分，包括海有、凱旋以及滿天星，2019年他們透過共同設立管理公司來協調航班以及拆分票款，已經實質形成聯合排班、限制航班供給，三家業者在布袋跟馬公航線的市占率將近六成，雖然沒有共同定價，但透過控制班次跟載容量，等於讓市場失去了正常的競爭機制。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:44:39.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:44:40.769000+08:00","text":"換句話說，也反映產業不一定得靠聯合漲價來影響市場，對不對？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:44:40.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:44:40.829000+08:00","text":"對，委員講得沒錯。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:44:40.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:44:41.490000+08:00","text":"聯合行為不是只限於聯合漲價。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:02.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:45:18.623000+08:00","text":"像這樣透過了聯合限量、聯合排班及聯合分配市場，讓消費者沒有選擇，業者也沒有立即改善服務量能的壓力。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:19.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:45:20.463000+08:00","text":"請教主委，像這樣的情況，最後只罰了多少？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:20.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:45:32.224000+08:00","text":"各罰10萬塊，你們的裁處是最後各罰10萬塊，這樣是不是低估了聯合限量對於市場競爭跟消費者權益的傷害？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:32.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:45:48.956000+08:00","text":"未來你是否會重新檢討聯合行為的裁罰標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:49.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:45:54.320000+08:00","text":"因為聯合行為裁罰的級距蠻寬的，所以最低到最高有一定的級距。當然。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:55.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:45:58.463000+08:00","text":"但是我們對個案的裁罰會綜合各種因素來判斷。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:45:58.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:05.769000+08:00","text":"這個案子主要的原因是根據我們分析後的結果，雖然他們是聯合行為，但他們對市場影響的程度並不是太高。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:06.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:09.491000+08:00","text":"我們深怕轉了一個彎、轉了一個方式……不會！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:11.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:17.835000+08:00","text":"讓業者把罰鍰當成是微不足道的經營成本，但是影響到消費者，所以……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:17.835000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:18.835000+08:00","text":"如果聯合行為情節嚴重，我們會重罰。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:18.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:44.353000+08:00","text":"現在本席跟你討論的是另外一個議題，也就是方式，因為業者已經將方式有所調整，你們必須討論按現在的經營方式，你們的督導方式要怎麼應對，這是本席跟你請教這個議題的一個重點。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:44.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:50.258000+08:00","text":"你去盤點可以怎麼樣調整你的方式，不讓消費者有所損害、無從選擇。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:54.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:46:58.585000+08:00","text":"我們積極對業者宣導聯合行為，這可能是我們最重要的一項宣導。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:46:58.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:03.668000+08:00","text":"你去盤點，然後告訴本席怎麼樣調整方式，給本席書面資料。是。","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:06.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:34.557000+08:00","text":"最後一個議題是公平會在115年不公平競爭行為調查編列了226萬9,000元，增幅是28.26%，但109年到114年7月底違反第二十一條跟二十五條的處分只有15件，裁罰總額也只有243萬。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:34.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:03.609000+08:00","text":"但是我們討論一個議題，也就是隱匿營運費用跟採購限制這兩項，對於整個龐大的市場，現在是市場的趨勢，如果是這樣，你的答案告訴我們只有15件、兩百出頭萬，等於沒有實質震攝力，會嚴重影響到加盟交易秩序跟難以確保事業公平競爭。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:04.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:11.954000+08:00","text":"本席要請教主委，隱匿費用跟強制採購是加盟契約當中會產生資訊不對等的兩項項目，你是否會落實保障加盟主的權益？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:11.954000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:22.700000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:22.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:33.330000+08:00","text":"隱匿營運費用跟採購限制這些東西在我們的處理原則裡面都有明確要求業者在加盟契約書要明確揭露出來，所以這幾個處分案件通常都是因為該揭露而沒有揭露才處分。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:33.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:33.410000+08:00","text":"對，怎麼辦呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:33.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:33.850000+08:00","text":"我們藉由過去這幾年不斷積極的宣導，其實業者都知道。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:33.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:34.290000+08:00","text":"你的宣導就是15件跟兩百出頭萬的罰鍰而已。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:42.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:42.584000+08:00","text":"從某個角度來看……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:43.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:52.072000+08:00","text":"你現在自己都琅琅上口說問題出在這裡，但該揭露沒揭露，而罰鍰又是如此，裁罰案件就只有15件，那要怎麼辦？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:52.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:53.293000+08:00","text":"你有什麼樣的調整方案去監管？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:53.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:54.133000+08:00","text":"我們會積極監管這樣的行為，當然宣導也是很重要的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:54.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:54.694000+08:00","text":"趕快加強，好不好？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:54.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:55.034000+08:00","text":"罰鍰的部分應該要綜合考慮。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:55.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:55.214000+08:00","text":"趕快加強！是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:55.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:55.374000+08:00","text":"最後我請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:55.374000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:14.237000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:14.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:25.641000+08:00","text":"召委第二階段排定了土石採取法的審查，大家非常關心，包括原住民應當要有的權益。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:26.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:42.810000+08:00","text":"誠如剛剛次長所說的回歸環境景觀，大家都非常重視怎麼樣均衡，這個法案的決定是很重要的，怎麼樣回歸環境景觀。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:43.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:11.265000+08:00","text":"不只是在第三條原住民的部分，還有大家比較有爭議的是在第三十六條，由原先的2,000萬，也有人說8,000萬，也有1億等等，所以待會會實質來討論，但是我們覺得很奇怪，既然行政部門認為很重要，對於我們整個環境也很重要，在這樣的一個情況之下，行政院版為什麼還沒有出來？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:11.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:11.465000+08:00","text":"什麼時候會出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:17.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:57.502000+08:00","text":"第一個，剛剛諸位委員已經關心過，我們希望院裡面兩個禮拜可以送出院版這個部分；第二個，委員所提到為什麼討論這麼久，不單是抓到犯罪人而已，不單是裁罰而已，我們重要的是委員講的環境景觀要整復回來，因為整復的部分，委員你也知道涉及到很多的單位，包括內政部、包括是不是農業部的這部分，我們必須要細緻地溝通，做一個比較好的整復，因為我們希望這些犯罪行為獲得遏止之外，環境還可以去恢復回來，這個就是我們再努力的方向……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:57.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:03.303000+08:00","text":"這個非常重要，所以剛剛次長你回答就是兩個禮拜內行政院版會出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:03.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:05.424000+08:00","text":"我們希望院裡面可以去審核，目前已經有一些慢慢收斂……對啊！","quality":0.48},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:05.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:08.725000+08:00","text":"因為大家這麼關心，行政院更要有責任，對不對？對。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:08.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:09.465000+08:00","text":"而且橫向的聯繫討論更要積極。是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:09.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:09.585000+08:00","text":"兩個禮拜內會提出來，加油！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:09.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:11.225000+08:00","text":"是，我們希望依照這樣子來努力。好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:11.725000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:14.867857+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員，謝謝次長。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:15.167857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:18.882143+08:00","text":"接下來我們請陳亭妃委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}