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麻煩請審計部陳主席 審計長請主席講 審計長 呃 審計長委員好 聲揚早齁我們外交部有捐助一個民主基金會阿 那個捐助的章程的內容你了解嗎 了解"},{"start":34.008,"end":62.82,"text":"他是為了要主要的目的是因為中共在全世界打壓我們我們有邦交的國家不夠那所以為了要推廣這個外交的工作所以放在國會可以辦一些國會外交所以董事長是本院的院長對不對那他原來捐助成立的目的是為了要推廣民主跟自由嘛那這一次啊台灣中國國民黨的這個黨主席去中國訪問"},{"start":64.833,"end":90.334,"text":"他申請基金會補助申請基金會補助補助要給補助計畫他申請說明書上面說他是去中國推廣台灣民主自由的理念我看全程的新聞媒體從頭到尾沒有講到台灣沒有講到民主沒有講到自由"},{"start":91.53,"end":106.372,"text":"那這樣我想要請教說省進部的立場我們這個補助提一個書面文章所作所為都跟這個書面的表示不相干或是甚至做相反的工作這樣可以申請補助嗎"},{"start":109.204,"end":130.986,"text":"這個基金會它有一些規定,如果你要申請補助或者足行,都要依照基金會的相關規定來處理。這一個部分,外交部是它的主管機關,外交部在財團法人法裡面,外交部要負責查核。"},{"start":131.647,"end":156.759,"text":"如果有問題外交部要給他一些相當的...是外交部查核不是台灣的這個民主基金會這個組織在查核因為他申請基金他申請480萬是向台灣民主基金會申請喔我現在要問你的就是說他申請的申請書的內容說要去中國推廣台灣的民主自由這個制度給中國了解"},{"start":157.939,"end":174.954,"text":"但是我看到整個媒體報導新聞 完全都沒有這些內容我的意思是說 我就是要問你這個問題我的申請 如果有一個人的申請書跟他所作所為完全不相關 甚至背道而馳"},{"start":176.178,"end":190.447,"text":"那這個事情基金會應該要怎麼處理呢基金會要根據它整個族型的狀況來先第一段它要審核它要審核完以後才來進行第二階段"},{"start":191.828,"end":197.75,"text":"如果他同意或者是他不同意外交部是主管機關也要把關第三段如果這個問題確有那個的時候我們也會督促外交部你要好好的來處理那這個案子報導或者去了解他還沒有辦理核銷作業"},{"start":215.857,"end":229.668,"text":"我請教你假設他真的這樣核銷因為現在準的單位現在是本院的院長要當這個基金會的董事長啊那他裡面的董監事如果就給他過了"},{"start":231.4,"end":246.558,"text":"假設啦我現在是假設性問題那你審計部最後能有什麼作為我們這一個案子如果他過了那外交部他再次主管機關依照財產法人法所以你意思是說外交部可以跟立法院的"},{"start":247.8,"end":261.378,"text":"當院長所主持的民主基金會跟他講說你這個使用的項目跟你的作為跟你事實上你的申請完全不符所以外交部可以跟他講說不可以發嗎這是他是主管機關所以外交部要用公文告訴立法院"},{"start":262.642,"end":288.192,"text":"院長所主導的民主基金會不可以補助是這樣的意思嗎這個是要看他的事實依照他的事實來認定他的事實經過外交部認定有一些瑕疵或者是有一些剛剛講的一些假設的問題那外交部要主管機關要基於他主管機關的監督立場"},{"start":290.113,"end":311.02,"text":"那外交部 我再問一個繼續假設性的問題外交部如果已經正式發文給民主基金會說這不符合目的結果民主基金會還是硬要補助 那會怎麼樣那你們總計部能有什麼作為我們會依據外交部的一些發文或查核的結果來處理這些相關的賬戶問題"},{"start":312.961,"end":334.31,"text":"相關賬戶問題什麼問題他就是給他假設退一萬部講說真的給他的480萬然後外交部也根據你現在講的原則跟他審核說因為不符合這個目的那也不符合你的作為所以不應該給予補助可是民主基金會仍然要給他補助的時候你們審計部最後能做什麼處理"},{"start":336.332,"end":355.232,"text":"我們會進行要外交部再督促外交部來做處理如果外交部會做適當的處理我們會給外交部相關的那外交部能做什麼樣適當的處理就是他主管機關主管機關問題是那個民主基金會他就覺得他比你大"},{"start":356.776,"end":375.295,"text":"我們在立法院 多少人講說我就是比你大我要給你要怎麼樣做壞事人不得到制裁你要去制裁外交部我是因為是假設外交部已經正式跟你回答說這不符合規定你不可以補助那台灣民主基金會仍然要補助"},{"start":376.436,"end":402.793,"text":"國家有國家的體制要依照國家的體制那我現在就是要問你國家的體制嘛你們審計部是不是要送監察院還是要移送這個檢調單位處理我是要問你這個啊我要是督促外交部外交部就自然的指責跟他講說這不合法了當然他外交部有不合法但是這個案子堅持在那裡我們審計部當然會去了解啊了解完了以後如果事實就如假設一樣"},{"start":403.593,"end":430.27,"text":"那當然是說有的事我們就會送監察院啊我們就會因為這個如果有不法的我們送檢調啊這個是當然是我們省局部的職責啊中華民國的立法院現在加起來的多數黨立法院的多數黨簡直就是太上皇了你送監察院也沒用了他監察院預算都不給你過監察院的代理院長跟我講說他們很可憐連電梯都沒辦法開因為電費都被刪光了"},{"start":434.515,"end":460.974,"text":"親口跟我講的所以現在就是無法無天啦我現在跟你講我們大家講清楚外交部有他的職權他應該去查核那外交部如果已經據實以告跟他講說查核的規矩查核的結果不符合規定不應給予補助這時候有兩種結果有一種就是民主基金會從善逐流嘛那我就不補助另外一種就是民主基金會說不我仍然在補助"},{"start":462.532,"end":472.192,"text":"因為我的董監事 我人多啊所以我的董監事仍然要補助那補助了之後你給他送監察院 沒關係啊 監察院等於是被他廢掉了"},{"start":474.404,"end":494.348,"text":"所以我來講 我們很厲害啦台灣的國會現在就是 我就是比你大啦就是有人說 我就是比你大國家的體制什麼東西都不重要好 我是要讓你了解說你有可能會面對將來有可能會面對這樣的困境請你回座啦我不是對你回敬我只是說我問的問題該怎麼處理 你要想清楚請回座來 我們請這個 關務署"},{"start":515.516,"end":532.66,"text":"現在這個發芽馬鈴薯這個查核標準有沒有變動報告委員是指檢疫的部分檢疫的部分是農委會房間署不是啊你們不是要配合嗎那不然就請農委會跟這樣的衛福部都一起上來大家一起回答"},{"start":534.915,"end":535.375,"text":"制度的改變"},{"start":551.328,"end":578.946,"text":"因為馬鈴薯進口有三種一種是種薯進來做種那第二個就是鮮食用的第三個就是用加工用的那過去啊這個鮮食跟加工只要驗到有花芽超過0.5公分或者是有其他這個龍奎鹼超過200ppm在衛福部這邊查到這個的話一律退那目前鮮食的部分還是維持本來的做法"},{"start":579.506,"end":606.011,"text":"那加工的部分如果我們發現在邊境外部發現200ppm以上這個馬上就必須要退那如果他的這個有帶土有8種病蟲害那另外就是他的花芽超過了0.5公分以上的話我們會要求這個推運或者是銷毀不能帶土也不能有病蟲害"},{"start":606.351,"end":629.421,"text":"那這一次的改變就是以前整個都退運這一次是不是還要進一步檢驗加工的部分加工的部分對那這個加工的部分標準是不是跟日本的標準相同比日本還嚴因為日本只有驗兩種病蟲害不是啦我是在講那個發芽的部分發芽的部分日本沒有管他不管發芽的部分日本發芽的進口發芽的他也加工對"},{"start":631.024,"end":654.015,"text":"因為他們只要美國提出好 那請惠福布回答剛剛講到那個龍奎鹼在發芽的部分產生了這些的有可能產生的這些的有毒物質要怎麼處理這個部分就是其實那個馬來西亞有沒有發芽跟龍奎鹼的濃度也不一定相關所以我們現在就是說我們其實整個檢驗的標準整個實驗的標準全世界一直都沒有標準"},{"start":654.355,"end":681.669,"text":"一直都沒有改變那這個龍奎減200ppm是從107年就訂到現在全世界有沒有一致的標準目前大概加拿大這邊也有採用這樣的標準只有加拿大嗎還有對加拿大日本有沒有日本不驗因為日本生產很多馬鈴薯所以是日本本身也在處理馬鈴薯這個東西國人關心就是有人會利用這個東西Tenny"},{"start":681.849,"end":699.078,"text":"要求再要求然後再製造台灣跟美國的緊張然後之後再拿這個東西打說政府無能沒有辦法保護人民的食品安全他們的目的是要講這個這是要做政治操作所以請你們要小心回答請你們一定要把這件事情向國人清楚地澄清好不好好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:23.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.302000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請審計部陳審計長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.462000+08:00","text":"請審計長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.542000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.542000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:25.542000+08:00","text":"審計長早。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:24.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:47:29.284000+08:00","text":"外交部有捐助一個民主基金會，捐助章程的內容你了解嗎？了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:47:48.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:04.315000+08:00","text":"它主要的目的是因為中共在全世界打壓我們，我們有邦交的國家不夠，為了要推廣外交工作，所以放在國會可以辦一些國會外交，因此董事長是本院的院長，對不對？對。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:05.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:43.314000+08:00","text":"它原來捐助成立的目的是為了要推廣民主跟自由，這一次臺灣中國國民黨的黨主席去中國訪問，他申請這個基金會補助，如果要申請這個基金會補助，那應該要給補助計畫，他在申請說明書上面說他是去中國推廣臺灣民主自由的理念，但新聞媒體我有看，我看他全程從頭到尾都沒有講到臺灣、沒有講到民主、沒有講到自由啊！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:48:45.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:48:59.372000+08:00","text":"我想要請教審計部的立場，申請補助提一份書面文章，結果所作所為都跟書面的表示不相干，或甚至做相反的工作，這樣可以申請補助嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:02.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:13.396000+08:00","text":"這個基金會有一些規定，如果你要申請補助或者執行，都要依照基金會的相關規定來處理。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:14.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:28.689000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，外交部是它的主管機關，外交部依照財團法人法要負責查核，如果有問題，外交部要給他一些相當的……","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:28.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:32.931000+08:00","text":"是由外交部查核，而不是臺灣民主基金會的主事者在查核？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:33.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:39.534000+08:00","text":"因為他申請480萬是向臺灣民主基金會申請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:40.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:55.003000+08:00","text":"我現在要問你的是，他申請書的內容說要去中國推廣臺灣的民主自由制度讓中國了解，但是我看到整個媒體報導和各個新聞，完全都沒有這些內容啊！","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:55.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:49:58.085000+08:00","text":"第一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:49:58.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:12.140000+08:00","text":"我就是要問你這個問題，如果有一個人的申請書跟他所作所為完全不相關，甚至背道而馳，那這件事情基金會應該要怎麼處理呢？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:12.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:29.330000+08:00","text":"基金會要根據他整個執行的狀況來判斷，第一個階段他要審核，審核完以後才來進行第二個階段，如果他同意了或者是他不同意，外交部是主管機關也要把關。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:29.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:30.150000+08:00","text":"第三個階段，如果這個問題確實有瑕疵，我們也會督促外交部好好來處理。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:30.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:50:30.750000+08:00","text":"關於這個案子，據報導或者據了解，他還沒有辦理核銷作業，所以……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:50:48.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:09.306000+08:00","text":"我請教你，假設他真的這樣核銷，因為現在核准的單位……現在是本院的院長在當這個基金會的董事長，我現在是假設性問題，如果裡面的董監事就這樣給他過了，那審計部最後能有什麼作為？","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:10.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:16.655000+08:00","text":"這個案子如果過了，主管機關外交部依照財團法人法……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:17.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:30.132000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是外交部可以跟立法院院長所主持的民主基金會說，因為申請使用的項目跟他事實上的作為完全不符，所以外交部可以跟他講說不可以發嗎？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:30.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:32.095000+08:00","text":"它是主管機關，這是它的權責。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:32.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:51:41.324000+08:00","text":"所以外交部要用公文告訴立法院院長所主導的民主基金會不可以補助，是這樣的意思嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:51:41.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:52:01.192000+08:00","text":"這要看他的事實，要依照事實來認定，他的事實經過外交部認定有一些瑕疵，或者是有一些剛剛所講的假設性問題，那麼外交部就要基於主管機關的監督立場來做相關……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:52:03.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:52:14.137000+08:00","text":"我再問一個假設性的問題，外交部如果已經正式發文給民主基金會說這不符合目的，結果民主基金會還是硬要補助，那會怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:52:14.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:52:15.697000+08:00","text":"你們審計部能有什麼作為？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:52:15.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:52:24.020000+08:00","text":"我們會依據外交部發文或查核的結果來處理相關的帳務問題。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:52:25.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:52:28.202000+08:00","text":"相關帳務問題是什麼問題？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:52:29.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:52:47.290000+08:00","text":"退一萬步講，假設真的給他480萬，然後外交部也根據你現在講的原則進行審核，說因為他的作為不符合這個目的，所以不應該給予補助，可是民主基金會仍然要給他補助的時候，請問審計部最後能做什麼處理？","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:52:49.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:00.003000+08:00","text":"我們會再督促外交部來處理，如果外交部未做適當的處理，我們會給外交部相關的審計意見……","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:01.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:03.027000+08:00","text":"外交部能做什麼樣的適當處理？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:03.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:05.369000+08:00","text":"它是主管機關啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:06.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:08.212000+08:00","text":"問題是民主基金會就覺得他比你大啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:09.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:15.402000+08:00","text":"我們在立法院有多少人講說我就是比你大，有人要給你要怎麼樣？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:15.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:19.126000+08:00","text":"做壞事的人不得到制裁，你要去制裁外交部？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:19.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:28.275000+08:00","text":"我現在是假設外交部已經正式回答說這不符合規定、不可以補助，但是臺灣民主基金會仍然要補助的時候……","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:29.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:31.057000+08:00","text":"國家有國家的體制，要依照國家的體制……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:31.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:33.039000+08:00","text":"我現在就是要問你國家的體制嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:33.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:38.882000+08:00","text":"你們審計部是不是要送監察院，還是要移送檢調單位處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:39.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:40.623000+08:00","text":"我是要問你這個啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:40.623000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:41.623000+08:00","text":"這個當然是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:41.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:53:44.866000+08:00","text":"你說你要去督促外交部，外交部就已經盡它的職責，跟他講說這不合法了。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:53:45.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:54:08.901000+08:00","text":"當然外交部有說不合法，但是這個案子堅持在那裡，審計部當然會去了解，了解完以後，如果事實就如假設一樣，當然我們就會送監察院；如果有不法的，我們就移送檢調，這當然是審計部的職責啊！","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:54:09.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:54:16.786000+08:00","text":"中華民國立法院現在的多數黨簡直就是太上皇，你送監察院也沒用啦！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:54:17.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:54:31.778000+08:00","text":"連監察院的預算都不給過，監察院的代理院長跟我說他們很可憐，連電梯都沒辦法開，因為電費都被刪光了，這是他親口跟我講的，現在就是無法無天啦！","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:54:32.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:05.171000+08:00","text":"我們大家講清楚，外交部有它的職權，它應該去查核，如果外交部已經據實以告，跟他說按照查核的規矩，查核的結果不符合規定，不應給予補助，這時候有兩種結果：一種是民主基金會從善如流，那就不補助；另外一種就是民主基金會說不，它仍然要補助，因為他們人多，所以它的董監事仍然要補助，補助了之後，你給它送監察院，沒關係啊，監察院等於是被他們廢掉了。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:07.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:17.606000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得很悲哀，現在臺灣的國會就是有人會說我就是比你大，國家的體制或其他東西都不重要。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:18.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:24.368000+08:00","text":"我是要讓你了解將來你有可能會面對這樣的困境，也請你回座……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:24.368000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:25.368000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，我們會依照國家的制度來執行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:24.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:26.808000+08:00","text":"我不是對你有意見，我是說我問的問題該怎麼處理，你要想清楚。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:27.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:27.328000+08:00","text":"接下來請關務署。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:27.328000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:48.516000+08:00","text":"請彭署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:48.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:51.416000+08:00","text":"請問現在發芽馬鈴薯的查核標準有沒有變動？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:51.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:55.817000+08:00","text":"報告委員，是指檢疫的部分？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:56.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:55:58.598000+08:00","text":"檢疫的部分是農業部防檢署。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:55:59.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:56:00.539000+08:00","text":"你們不是要配合嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:56:00.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:56:05.640000+08:00","text":"不然就請農業部、衛福部都一起上來，大家一起回答。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:56:07.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:56:08.375000+08:00","text":"制度的改變在哪裡？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:56:08.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:56:25.749000+08:00","text":"請胡政次、莊次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:56:25.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:56:34.034000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們這次的改變在檢疫部分是這樣子，馬鈴薯進口有3種：一種是種薯，進來做種；第二個是鮮食用的；第三個就是加工用的。","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:56:34.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:56:48.323000+08:00","text":"過去鮮食用的跟加工用的只要驗到發芽超過0.5公分，或者是龍葵鹼超過200 ppm，衛福部這邊查到的話，一律退。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:56:49.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:01.868000+08:00","text":"目前鮮食的部分還是維持本來的做法，而加工的部分，如果衛福部在邊境發現200 ppm以上，馬上就必須要退。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:02.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:18.991000+08:00","text":"如果有帶土、有8種病蟲害，另外就是發芽超過0.5公分以上的話，我們會要求退運或者是銷毀，不能帶土，也不能有病蟲害。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:21.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:24.913000+08:00","text":"以前整個都退運，這次的改變是不是還要進一步檢驗？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:24.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:25.574000+08:00","text":"加工的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:25.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:26.274000+08:00","text":"加工的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:27.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:29.855000+08:00","text":"這個加工部分的標準是不是跟日本的標準相同？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:30.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:33.697000+08:00","text":"比日本還嚴，因為日本只有驗兩種病蟲害。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:34.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:36.598000+08:00","text":"不是，我是在講發芽的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:37.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:40.080000+08:00","text":"發芽的部分日本沒有管，他不管發芽的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:40.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:42.401000+08:00","text":"他不管，日本對於進口發芽的也加工？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:42.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:45.905000+08:00","text":"對，因為他們只要美國提出……好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:46.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:57:54.569000+08:00","text":"請衛福部回答，剛剛講到龍葵鹼、在發芽部分可能產生有毒物質的要怎麼處理？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:57:55.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:12.558000+08:00","text":"關於這個部分，其實馬鈴薯有沒有發芽跟龍葵鹼的濃度也不一定相關，所以我們現在整個檢驗的標準、整個食安的標準一直都沒有改變，龍葵鹼200 ppm的標準是從107年就訂到現在了，所以沒有變。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:13.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:14.859000+08:00","text":"好，全世界有沒有一致的標準？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:15.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:18.981000+08:00","text":"目前大概加拿大也有採用這樣的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:19.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:21.002000+08:00","text":"只有加拿大嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:22.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:22.343000+08:00","text":"對，加拿大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:23.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:23.663000+08:00","text":"日本有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:24.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:25.484000+08:00","text":"日本不驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:25.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:29.626000+08:00","text":"因為日本生產很多馬鈴薯，所以日本本身也在處理馬鈴薯。是。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:30.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:42.793000+08:00","text":"這個東西國人關心，就是有人會利用這個東西跟你要求、再要求，製造臺灣跟美國的緊張，之後再拿這個東西打說政府無能、沒有辦法保護人民的食品安全。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:43.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:48.076000+08:00","text":"他們的目的是要講這個，這是要做政治操作，所以請你們要小心回答。好。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:48.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:51.917000+08:00","text":"請你們一定要把這件事情向國人清楚地澄清，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:52.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:52.078000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:52.578000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:55.149429+08:00","text":"謝謝吳秉叡委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:58:55.449429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:58:58.592286+08:00","text":"接下來請第3位林德福委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}