{"error":false,"id":["168782"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168782,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168782","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T09:39:28+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T09:57:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:17:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be544215234077f884ce146e07bf52eec0dd49d3cfaf5c3773194d0cc001442e8e29285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:39:28 - 09:57:20","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部就「脆弱家庭兒少支持服務及兒少保護個案處遇之跨體系協作與銜接機制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":3.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.69221875,"end":8.687843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.77659375,"end":7.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.586593750000002,"end":28.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.90409375,"end":34.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.877843750000004,"end":38.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.74221875,"end":39.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.99534375,"end":42.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.20159375,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.26909375,"end":65.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.38721875,"end":42.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.35659375,"end":49.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.73159375,"end":53.204093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.37221875,"end":57.743468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.822843750000004,"end":84.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.89096875,"end":87.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.91596875,"end":100.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.65659375000001,"end":128.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.06721875000001,"end":119.45534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.77909375,"end":153.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.04909375,"end":155.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.44971875000002,"end":157.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.71096875,"end":170.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.34596875,"end":178.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.50096875,"end":178.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.60221875000002,"end":184.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.77909375000002,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.47784375,"end":197.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.77221875,"end":200.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.94471875000002,"end":227.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.31096875,"end":206.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.45784375000002,"end":211.82909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.02159375000002,"end":222.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.10096875000002,"end":242.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.33284375000002,"end":228.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.61096875,"end":231.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.99721875,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.60909375,"end":274.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.33409375,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.75159375000004,"end":279.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.39659375,"end":311.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.19409375000004,"end":310.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.41284375000004,"end":314.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.56034375,"end":312.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.11284375,"end":314.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.41221875,"end":320.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.40346875,"end":316.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.21721875000003,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.32096875,"end":331.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.59784375000004,"end":344.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.51721875000004,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.64346875,"end":349.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.27596875,"end":351.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.05221875,"end":358.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.62471875,"end":368.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.41721875,"end":363.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.78346875,"end":380.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.01784375,"end":414.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.02971875000003,"end":413.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.07596875,"end":433.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.01534375,"end":424.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.18346875000003,"end":430.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.60034375000004,"end":439.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.48971875,"end":460.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.76784375000005,"end":444.26534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.19096875,"end":462.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.81534375,"end":466.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.40534375000004,"end":467.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.51909375,"end":469.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.25721875000005,"end":470.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.96596875000006,"end":470.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.89409375,"end":470.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.91096875000005,"end":470.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.38346875,"end":472.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.48471875,"end":479.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.66596875000005,"end":474.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.28096875000006,"end":479.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.88846875,"end":484.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.42784375,"end":487.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.21221875000003,"end":494.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.67159375000006,"end":490.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.83596875,"end":493.23659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.19846875,"end":494.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.23221875,"end":499.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.43471875000006,"end":494.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.12596875,"end":513.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.59221875,"end":513.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.67221875,"end":513.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.85784375,"end":513.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.8915937500001,"end":513.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.9084687500001,"end":515.4778437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.98409375,"end":526.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.37909375,"end":533.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.41596875,"end":547.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.7065937500001,"end":536.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.8078437500001,"end":536.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.9297187500001,"end":540.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.74284375,"end":551.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.35409375,"end":563.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.3015937499999,"end":584.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.7665937500001,"end":586.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.52159375,"end":593.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.55846875,"end":595.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.2078437499999,"end":617.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.9597187500001,"end":624.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.9797187500001,"end":625.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.92471875,"end":630.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.3797187499999,"end":635.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.5053437500001,"end":639.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.2009687500001,"end":676.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.1159687500001,"end":644.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.3134687500001,"end":689.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":690.2353437500001,"end":721.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.41221875,"end":742.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.63534375,"end":724.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.63346875,"end":735.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.13534375,"end":737.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.8059687500001,"end":738.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.45909375,"end":753.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.90471875,"end":760.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.39346875,"end":758.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.7053437500001,"end":772.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.09346875,"end":761.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.2265937500001,"end":775.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.44596875,"end":775.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.24721875,"end":779.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.31846875,"end":790.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.6584687500001,"end":801.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.27284375,"end":824.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":825.6909687500001,"end":835.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.16221875,"end":835.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.44471875,"end":842.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.49034375,"end":847.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":848.79284375,"end":848.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.80971875,"end":849.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.1472187500001,"end":862.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.1640937500001,"end":850.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":863.7609687500001,"end":876.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":876.8390937500001,"end":880.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.8640937500002,"end":881.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.6528437500001,"end":886.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.1497187500001,"end":890.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":891.0984687500002,"end":897.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":898.03409375,"end":912.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":913.52534375,"end":930.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":926.4853437500001,"end":942.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":942.88784375,"end":957.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":957.4340937500001,"end":964.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":963.3572187500001,"end":963.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":964.28534375,"end":980.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":981.2447187500002,"end":982.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":983.4890937500002,"end":988.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":988.18034375,"end":990.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":990.6103437500001,"end":995.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":995.7065937500001,"end":996.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":997.9678437500002,"end":1002.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":998.2209687500001,"end":999.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1002.49034375,"end":1009.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1010.0165937500001,"end":1023.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1023.75284375,"end":1023.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1023.8540937500002,"end":1035.2447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1034.35034375,"end":1035.3965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1035.31221875,"end":1042.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1040.22284375,"end":1052.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1052.89596875,"end":1064.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1065.9065937500002,"end":1069.1465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1069.6697187500001,"end":1070.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1070.47971875,"end":1072.5047187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.432,"end":3.571,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝各位委員有請石部長有請石部長"},{"start":8.097,"end":33.847,"text":"陳委員長部長剛有兩個委員已經關心了因為大家昨天看到社工上街頭的新聞其實都很難過啊他們拿著牌子說我們接住受害者那誰來接住我們現在法院的判決是把他們當作所有小孩的保證人但剛有講啊人力不足抄案抄量在接案這邊要請部長表示您的意見您覺得他們是每一個小朋友的保證人嗎"},{"start":36.213,"end":62.487,"text":"這個我要藉這個機會也提到我們一定做所有社工的後盾這個是我們主管機關的態度那當然在法律的見解上那麼法院有這樣的見解所以我們才會在明天下午召開邀請法界可能法界有不同的這個見解啦並不是這個定於一尊所以我們明天就邀請了各方"},{"start":62.947,"end":83.975,"text":"那大家現在也蠻像 聽一下您初步的看法嘛因為他們這樣子 遇到這樣子的事件 熱情被燃燒殆盡有很多人是萌生要離職的這樣子想法我們也不希望這個社共的缺口越來越大所以我們想知道說 法院說保姆因為容易情緒化 他這樣子說對保姆合理嗎 您覺得"},{"start":86.259,"end":102.469,"text":"您說的是他說保姆容易情緒化所以他認為社工本來就應該要多加監督您覺得他這樣子講對保姆還有對社工合理嗎您認同嗎我是建議我們比較"},{"start":103.61,"end":127.311,"text":"不去做這個個案的批評啊那必須是整個這個從這個法律架構上然後他的這個責任釐清上面我們來切入所以我們才會有今天下午先跟社工座談聽聽他們第一線的聲音然後明天呢才邀請法界那麼跟也有一些學者大家來對話"},{"start":128.772,"end":152.524,"text":"這些社工的要求真的不多他的意思是說他希望主管機關也就是您衛福部可以清楚的定義他們的工作範圍他們只想知道他們的工作範圍是在什麼程度以內嘛那這個東西不是只給我看啊你也是要給全國的社工看給全國的保姆看你覺得你多久以內可以定出這個工作的範圍"},{"start":154.076,"end":170.304,"text":"多久以内可以给我报告工作的范围我们一直有一些工作的办法或者是指引其实一直都有像邹初仰也有一定的办法跟指引在这里所以到底什么叫做"},{"start":171.445,"end":199.159,"text":"就像我們醫療您也是醫師是最清楚的過去因為這個醫療糾紛的時候困擾我們非常非常久所以最後才有去修訂這個醫療法82條那沒關係我想知道說你下午座談明天跟法界那你多久以內會有一個初步的文書文件讓他們可以知道說他們的工作範圍程度在哪裡嗎其實他們的要求昨天這樣訴求是這樣子嗎"},{"start":201.161,"end":226.864,"text":"我們今天下午會再更清楚的了解他們的訴求主要著眼在哪裡那麼會再透過明天的這個法律諮詢那麼來把它釐清看看未來到底我們應該要做什麼樣的規範也好或解釋也好還是要修法也好那麼才能夠確保這些社工在執行他的業務的時候可以沒有後顧之急"},{"start":227.264,"end":242.385,"text":"好那我再跟您索取這個你們的會議紀錄你們討論哪些項目好這個呢因為最近網路上很多人在講說馬鈴薯只要把發芽的地方切掉就可以吃甚至也有人說如果發芽"},{"start":243.226,"end":268.396,"text":"吃起來非常的苦所以你絕對不會再繼續吃所以就很多家長很緊張嘛因為馬鈴薯是一個學校營養午餐很常用到的東西啊然後小朋友也很喜歡吃薯條那我就上網去查說看有沒有一些文章可以知道我們比如說這篇就在講說馬鈴薯發芽有毒聽說只要切掉其他部位還是可以吃是真的嗎那這篇文章就寫說"},{"start":269.696,"end":281.609,"text":"不行 因為高溫加熱也無法去除毒性你覺得這篇有沒有公信力 寫的是不是對的 這些衛教知識應該是這麼說 這有幾塊第一個這個茄鹼 就是所謂的馬鈴薯的龍葵鹼它是對熱穩定 這個毒素是對熱穩定沒有錯"},{"start":290.879,"end":313.695,"text":"那第二個呢 到底是不是用芽來判斷這個龍奎鹼的含量多寡那這個是沒有絕對的關聯性所以我們才會在邊境的部分 我們就會去做抽驗只要龍奎鹼超過200ppm 它就會被退運或銷毀你只要告訴我發芽的是不是不可以吃就好了"},{"start":314.495,"end":341.204,"text":"因為這篇文章只是在討論這個發芽的可不可以吃對可不可以吃你只要告訴我這個如果現在啊這個按照這個我們農業部在邊境的檢驗是5個millimeter啦它的條件是5個millimeter啦這個芽啦這5個millimeter那就我們的條件呢是檢驗啦就是龍葵檢如果驗出200ppm這個就不可以所以整批就會被退運"},{"start":341.664,"end":354.483,"text":"所以你的意思是說農業署以發芽你是以PPM標準的話是要用檢驗來看那我直接告訴你當然要跟委員說明的是說在他這個馬鈴薯發芽到"},{"start":358.666,"end":376.498,"text":"它的表面隨著龍奎鹼它裡面在發芽的過程會釋出龍奎鹼當它的龍奎鹼的濃度越高的時候那它表面上的顏色也會變化好 我先跟你說這篇文章是你們自己寫的衛生福利部食品藥物管理署2016年發布的為了讓全國的"},{"start":381.341,"end":410.282,"text":"關心小朋友的家長可以follow所以當時你們寫了一篇衛教文2016年跟大家講說不行喔 不能吃發芽的馬鈴薯是不可以吃的網路上有人說挖掉就可以吃 不對所以你們最後是建議大家不要買太多 以免它發芽然後要攝取新鮮的 最後一句四 馬鈴薯一旦發芽就不該食用即使切除牙眼或加熱仍然會有切剪"},{"start":410.962,"end":430.205,"text":"那你現在是要怎樣你現在是要下架你的文章沒有沒有沒有沒有衝突啦我剛剛提到的是說從科學上來講我們不會用牙眼跟龍盔繭的濃度去直接做對應這個不會但是對民眾的衛教來講你無法去區分嘛所以你對民眾的衛教就是說簡單的說那當然就是說你這個這個不會因為只是一個牙眼切除龍盔繭就沒有不會這個是對的"},{"start":440.607,"end":460.3,"text":"所以就不要吃嘛 對不對我們現在就是要我們現在以正式聽因為很多人在網路上寫說切掉可以吃好 這邊呢剛你有講到農業化就說不合格就整顆棄置那這邊我們也想問啊因為你早上好像有回答記者說你們現在抽菸就是2%嘛"},{"start":461.401,"end":486.327,"text":"2到10%抽驗就是2到10%那你如果驗到一顆你會怎麼做整批退運或銷毀整批整箱還是整批因為他比如說這一批是這個貨櫃抽出來有那這個貨櫃就是整個退運或銷毀那因為卓院長昨天有說他要一顆一顆逐顆逐顆看你可以幫他解釋一下他這個要怎麼進行嗎"},{"start":487.967,"end":512.685,"text":"我們的抽菸不會一顆一顆驗沒有在一顆一顆驗都是我們抽菸的方式所以卓院長他可能理解錯誤理解錯誤你們的抽菸方式他應該不是指我們的抽菸因為我們抽菸從來不會是一顆一顆驗他應該指的是農業部因為這個外觀的檢視包含有沒有腐敗有沒有發芽那個是用外觀檢視有沒有發霉對所以他剛剛講的"},{"start":516.027,"end":523.97,"text":"不是他對不起農業部說的不合格的就整科氣質他說錯了你講的是整批對吧不是你剛講的不一樣我們是抽驗檢驗超過那個龍葵檢超過200ppm我們是整批"},{"start":533.573,"end":562.19,"text":"那但是那個有發芽的它是單顆嘛不會一顆發芽其他也一定都發芽因為它在噴灑那個易芽劑的時候有時候會不均勻嘛所以它是對那個發芽的那一顆丟棄以前嘛以前我們是整個看到發芽就不要了因為我們會覺得它生長在同樣的一個環境所以這一顆有其他顆可能也有然後我們2018年其實都是蠻嚴格的今年"},{"start":563.411,"end":565.292,"text":"不知道為什麼ART談判完變成這樣子這個是你們跟農業部一起發布的喔你們在講說不合格及氣質如果有發芽腐爛發霉該顆馬鈴薯必須嚴禁進入加工產線所以你現在先記得喔"},{"start":582.278,"end":585.88,"text":"他不能進入加工產線絕對不會進入加工產線OK好那我們來看一下我們來看一下這邊我去翻了一下2025年這個台美就是美國對外貿易屏障的這個報告他裡面就寫到啦"},{"start":598.729,"end":616.851,"text":"他說抱怨說台灣對發芽有限制導致常常整批貨被退美國當時就在這個報告裡面寫說發芽不會構成食安的風險正在跟台灣雙邊協商解決這跟你的衛教文章不太一樣那2026年呢2月他就發表了這個"},{"start":617.992,"end":624.175,"text":"他寫得很清楚你看他的最後一段他說如果馬鈴薯有發芽腐爛發霉入境但是啊入境以後在加工設施內完成分檢還有處置所以他最後寫一個at a processing facility"},{"start":636.562,"end":645.19,"text":"但是我剛剛給你看的你們的海報寫的是絕對不會進入加工產線我比較了美國跟我們自己發布會覺得很荒唐一個說不會進入加工產線一個是美國說我們跟台灣講好了他們會去一個processing facility"},{"start":655.72,"end":660.763,"text":"大家看了會覺得很奇怪啊我們平常去機場大費周章還要拿一個紅卡還要拿綠卡還要被檢查背包看到背包裡面有在機場的邊境就直接把你丟掉了然後現在是發現有發芽這些還要被送去一個加工廠在裡面所以他就入境了不是嗎"},{"start":676.591,"end":700.892,"text":"跟委員說明 我們所有的這個檢驗的比例還有檢驗的標準 還有後面的處置 退運整批的這種做法其實都是沒有變差別的只是在於說 如果是外觀上面那麼出現有這個發芽的情形的時候那麼是拉到一個指定的區域 不是直接進加工廠"},{"start":701.753,"end":715.329,"text":"是拉到指定的區域去魚蟻剔除掉把那一顆丟掉啦那麼在其他的國家也是這樣做不會整批啦這個日本也是這樣做因為我們依賴的是科學的檢驗標準"},{"start":716.61,"end":725.193,"text":"那麼不能夠用一顆代表全部你說你們沒有變然後現在又在解釋你各種的差別檢驗沒有變又在解釋你各種的差別我現在已經很明確的把2025年2026年都拿給你看了美國都已經說你有差了你還說你自己沒有差而且它這邊就寫Processing Facility你硬要說它是一個指定的地方它就是加工廠啊"},{"start":743.519,"end":771.852,"text":"我跟委員描述的是目前農業部的做法啦當然詳細的因為今天農業部沒有來啦那這個是農業部我們處理的只是檢驗抽驗啦我們是抽驗那麼外觀的檢視這個叫外觀的檢視這個是農業部在做的檢疫包含有沒有病蟲害啊這個他們要看的那當然他們今天沒有來但是據他們跟我的描述他是會到一個指定的地方去做剔除不是直接進入到加工廠"},{"start":773.474,"end":796.893,"text":"我給你看你自己寫的東西我們2月簽了ART1月的時候才發現說農業部改了兩份文件農業部這邊改了美國加工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件你仔細看運抵加工廠後高批加工用馬鈴薯經過選別附帶一隻牙體長度超過5毫米或腐爛發霉"},{"start":801.497,"end":823.754,"text":"超過標準予以區隔且不得進行加工予以棄置你剛剛一直說去指定的環境農業部的文件1月21號就已經發表說這些在入境的時候發現有發芽他是把他們運到加工廠他寫這麼清楚你還要跟我說指定的地點"},{"start":826.308,"end":847.005,"text":"這個我想因為今天農業部也沒有來那這個不需要經過我們這個會嫌的所以如果詳細的部分委員可以再請教農業部因為是食安嘛所以這邊還是要請教您嘛因為這個是您跟農業部共同發表的我們的檢驗所有的程序標準跟處置的方式不變"},{"start":850.164,"end":875.304,"text":"那我問你 進入加工廠 好 它處理難道它有發芽或是有驗出超過標準的不會跟正常一般馬鈴薯會有污染嗎這不是大家最擔心的嗎不會嗎我跟委員說明啦這個當然是農業部的這個process啦那但是據我的瞭解啦它只是暫於 它不是直接進到加工它是暫於讓它出關"},{"start":876.912,"end":887.886,"text":"然後到一個地方去剔除然後我們就會加驗所以他就入境啊但是如果加驗有問題的話呢我們就我們會驗他的龍盔檢嘛一有問題也是整批退啦那我問你最後一個問題啦這邊有寫"},{"start":891.55,"end":912.253,"text":"ART寫得很硬喔 他說之後如果有任何想要修改這個檢疫的標準必須要雙方都合意 共同同意之下那你怎麼 你怎麼改 因為你以前遇到混裝肉的問題 你就說我要開始逐批查驗那你以後怎麼改 你以後遇到食安的問題他都已經寫這麼硬了 你要怎麼調整"},{"start":913.704,"end":942.035,"text":"所有的這個檢疫的方式都是大家互相在兩邊溝通的而且都是基於科學證據跟國際標準來做所以我們一向過去的做法也都是如此所以你的意思是說你的意思是說未來如果你遇到像之前您在查混裝肉的這個事件的時候你開始改成逐批查驗你之後也會跟美國溝通說我們可不可以得到一個雙方的共識我可能也要開始查你會這樣子做"},{"start":942.975,"end":962.783,"text":"我們當然有如何檢疫的決定權但是這些決定權呢也必須跟世界的標準國際要去接軌不然人家也這樣對我們的話那我們的農產品就無法出就是每個國家都希望在共同的國際標準下這個才是國際貿易的本質"},{"start":964.344,"end":980.354,"text":"因為之前是您的前一位部長他在有一次跟談判辦公室的人一起來當時我們衛黃委員會很關心肉品啊等等他說他是沒有參與到這個談判所以但是行政是一體的我想知道你是什麼時候才知道馬鈴薯會進來的發芽馬鈴薯會進來馬鈴薯的那個規範是在今年二月發布的對那談判的過程你有參與嗎"},{"start":991.003,"end":1009.335,"text":"談判的過程我們主要是食藥署參與但是我都會他們都會跟我報告那你什麼時候就知道了因為美國的文件是寫2025年就開始談了就是說我當部長才知道啊因為我之前是健保署署長我不會去接觸到食品安全的問題"},{"start":1010.029,"end":1023.606,"text":"好我們希望未來的發展不管如何因為每天都有不同的答詢出來的答案都不太一樣那你還是之後可以信守你的承諾之後如果你需要逐批查驗的時候你就大膽的說你要逐批查驗我們檢驗我們過去都有一個標準"},{"start":1026.169,"end":1034.775,"text":"就是2到10%的抽驗有問題的時候提高到20到50%的抽驗再有問題的時候就逐批對我們的過去都是這樣然後你要從逐批要降級我們有一定的標準所以這些標準都是分開的因為他已經說他已經把這些標準要更改的時候明訂進來以前是沒有這一段英文的以前沒有這一段英文所以我們現在才要在這邊跟你釐清嘛好不好"},{"start":1053.029,"end":1063.718,"text":"那檢驗的程序剛剛跟委員一直在強調我們在檢驗的程序抽驗的標準那麼以及後面的處置有問題的時候的處置都沒有改變沒關係 等一下還有其他委員會問你謝謝主席 謝謝部長好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}