{"error":false,"id":["168783"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168783,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168783","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T09:57:25+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T10:08:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:33","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442bf1a10ed3fbc89466e07bf52eec0dd49d3cfaf5c3773194d356a8bce1c9ee5345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"09:57:25 - 10:08:58","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部就「脆弱家庭兒少支持服務及兒少保護個案處遇之跨體系協作與銜接機制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.422218750000001,"end":15.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.273468750000003,"end":15.235343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.34909375,"end":18.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.54284375,"end":19.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.01534375,"end":26.085968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.12409375,"end":25.360343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.28846875,"end":36.987218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.55784375,"end":30.878468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.48096875,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.252843750000004,"end":43.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.775968750000004,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.80471875,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.44159375,"end":46.470968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.470968750000004,"end":55.71846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.689718750000004,"end":53.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.98034375,"end":54.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.469718750000006,"end":55.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.735343750000006,"end":104.68971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.81034375,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.05784375,"end":71.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.44346875000001,"end":87.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.10971875,"end":90.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.40909375000001,"end":92.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.59034375,"end":93.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.46596875,"end":105.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.54596875,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.59221875,"end":112.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.93346875,"end":111.27096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.53659375000001,"end":176.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.73409375000001,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.30284375000001,"end":123.65721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.72034375000001,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.38659375,"end":127.67346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.39846875,"end":132.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.09409375,"end":137.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.56534375,"end":145.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.29846875,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.73221875000002,"end":157.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.95409375,"end":169.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.65846875,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.59034375000002,"end":173.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.06659375,"end":198.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.93846875,"end":187.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.60471875000002,"end":190.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.94971875000002,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.01721875,"end":196.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.68784375,"end":198.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.37971875000002,"end":198.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.53159375,"end":217.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.55221875,"end":201.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.08784375000002,"end":203.40846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.56846875000002,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.00971875000002,"end":217.29659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.14471875,"end":344.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.00034375,"end":223.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.20221875000001,"end":227.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.24284375,"end":386.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.46534375000005,"end":352.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.17721875,"end":360.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.27221875000004,"end":373.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.87534375,"end":375.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.25784375,"end":384.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.21534375000005,"end":386.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.50221875,"end":387.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.53159375,"end":387.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.73409375,"end":388.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.62846875,"end":389.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.01659375,"end":394.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.85159375,"end":392.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.71221875000003,"end":393.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.74159375000005,"end":393.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.79221875,"end":394.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.85534375000003,"end":395.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.14221875000004,"end":426.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.13346875,"end":397.92659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.48346875000004,"end":398.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.79909375000005,"end":404.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.36846875000003,"end":405.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.34659375,"end":410.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.35471875,"end":412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.12971875000005,"end":421.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.41221875,"end":422.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.30221875,"end":424.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.00659375000004,"end":438.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.58221875000004,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.89409375,"end":451.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.64409375,"end":451.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.16284375000004,"end":464.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.28096875000006,"end":452.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.60971875,"end":455.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.12846875,"end":456.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.69784375,"end":457.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.52471875000003,"end":458.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.79034375000003,"end":459.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.81909375000004,"end":465.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.07221875000005,"end":477.62721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.88221875000005,"end":467.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.92409375000005,"end":468.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.10096875000005,"end":471.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.78346875000005,"end":499.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.20596875,"end":527.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.88096875,"end":588.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.5803437500001,"end":596.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.0515937499999,"end":609.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.48596875,"end":598.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.0634687500001,"end":602.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.1765937499999,"end":608.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.18471875,"end":617.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.6484687500001,"end":612.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.62659375,"end":641.9053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.9309687500001,"end":645.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.4072187500001,"end":680.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.3803437500001,"end":653.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.51534375,"end":681.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.47721875,"end":691.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.4640937500001,"end":685.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.04534375,"end":693.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.4753437500001,"end":695.26409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.443,"end":13.917,"text":"主席 各位委員 還有各位政府部門的同仁大家好那我們有請石部長"},{"start":16.383,"end":42.189,"text":"好 部長部長好就委員好是 我今天想跟你交流呢心理健康支持方案的成效還有適用的年齡層好那我想呢我們大家應該都略有掌握其實自殺呢是我們國人的十大死因之一那特別我關心的是青少年已經跳出十大了已經跳出十大了那當然這個但是他應該還是"},{"start":43.849,"end":70.198,"text":"那部長有掌握現在是第幾嗎11 12啦11 12就在邊緣嘛所以一稍微有疏忽可能又會再跌回十大的範圍之內還是要很努力是是那我關心的是這個青少年自殺的問題那青少年我們可以看到這張圖青少年是紅色的他的年齡區間大概就是紅色這個曲線來表示那他似乎有逐年提升的一個問題"},{"start":71.638,"end":93.11,"text":"我們當然知道衛福部對於自殺的防治對於國人心理健康的提升在過去幾年又做了一個努力那在112年的時候有提供一個叫年輕族群的心理健康支持方案那適用的年齡層是15到30歲那也許應該是效果不錯吧所以年齡有再往上拓展到45歲嘛"},{"start":95.131,"end":121.54,"text":"那現在我想要請教部長就是說那這兩個方案目前執行的情形如何那對於自殺的防治你們是不是有掌握到成效的評估這個不直接只是針對這個自殺因為現在這個特別是在年輕族群也有一些情緒困擾那需要有一些因為過去這個難免這個就醫"},{"start":125.041,"end":150.539,"text":"會覺得有標籤化的問題所以我們才會導入這個一開始是15到30歲一年三次的免費的諮商因為推出之後反應很不錯因為從這中間也會有一些轉介發現到一些個案他就會轉介到真正需要的醫療服務或者是說他還是回到這個學校的輔導系統等等這些會有一些資源的連結"},{"start":151.66,"end":172.506,"text":"因為就會有反映到說其實往後年輕世代工作壓力家庭原因也都是在這個年齡群工作跟經濟家庭所以才會往後延後到45歲大概是這樣那以自殺率來看的話"},{"start":177.268,"end":198.532,"text":"其實在這個Covid之後委員您也都是這方面的專業很清楚Covid之後整個那個Mental Health的問題受到很大的衝擊所以各國那個自殺率都有一些往上不過我們看起來也是差不多跟國際的趨勢一樣稍微有往上不過去年我們又把它下降了"},{"start":198.632,"end":216.728,"text":"特別關心的是就是青少年因為青少年他們就是有早熟的趨勢然後也有一些情感的困擾那現在網路資訊也很爆炸那可能也會有一些詐騙被詐騙然後霸凌等等的一個現象所以我想這些的社會因素有可能都會衝擊到他們的心理健康"},{"start":217.288,"end":238.084,"text":"所以我覺得提供給他們一些心理諮詢我覺得是一個很可行的方向那衛福部現在也在努力那現在有個問題就是說我們來看一下心理師法嘛心理師法有提到說心理師如果在執行業務的時候要取得當事人或法代的同意那我解讀這一條我自己從法律的角度來解讀我是覺得說因為這邊提到說當事人或法代嘛那我就"},{"start":238.624,"end":256.332,"text":"解讀上我會區分為兩個族群一個族群就成年人成年人當然就當事人同意那如果是未成年當然就是法代同意但是這裡就所以部長應該認同這個法律上的解讀嘛那所以這裡現在有一個問題就是說你如果青少年他要使用這些諮詢的時候他前提要法代同意"},{"start":256.852,"end":278.984,"text":"那因為他遭遇這些問題他有時候不敢告訴家人那不敢告訴家人如何取得法帶的同意這第一件事然後再來就是說好不容易告訴家人那部長您剛剛有提到嘛就是汙名化的問題家長他也許會覺得說我的小孩去接受行李諮商那不想讓他們去那沒有法帶同意之下小孩子即使想去也去不了那所幸這裡有一個我們還蠻"},{"start":279.884,"end":306.254,"text":"高興看到的一個解套方式就是在校園內有學生輔導法嘛學生輔導法就心理師在校園內如果質詢這些心理諮商的時候在符合三個要件的情況之下就可以把心理衛生心理師法第19條的法帶同意的限制做一個解套嘛那要建議就是學生本人同意要建議就是學校有一個個案的會議來做評估如果學生有需求第三個就是考量到這個學生的最佳利益"},{"start":306.954,"end":323.188,"text":"那現在問題就是說當然就可以不需要法代的同意但問題就是說因為這個是學生輔導法它發生在校園內有就學的學生那如果今天是在校園外沒有就學的好像就要回歸到心理司法第19條還是要法代的同意那我們現在就覺得說那這個對於未就學的"},{"start":326.711,"end":344.516,"text":"15到18歲的這個未成年人他們常常是有來自於今天我們的主題嘛錯過家庭然後沒有辦法繼續就學中錯身可能他們就沒有再適用學生輔導法而還是要受到心理司法第19條的限制那不知道校部長您怎麼看"},{"start":346.337,"end":362.688,"text":"對 這個其實委員點出了一個其實跟我們兒少權法也很有相關聯性就是在CRC裡面特別有提到尊重這個兒少的意見那這裡面就有這個所謂的知情權 被知情權跟選擇權的問題"},{"start":364.329,"end":388.312,"text":"那在過去我們在醫療的過程你也很清楚都是對未成年人來講都是需要有這個監護人或法定代理人他的這個同意才能夠執行但是如何在什麼情況之下比如說需要衡量到這個兒少本身的心智成熟在什麼樣的情形之下那麼可以不需要"},{"start":389.473,"end":406.103,"text":"跳出這個法定代理或監護人的同意權的這件事情那麼我覺得可以討論那這個至於這個做這個剛剛提到我們的那個心理諮商的部分我們的新建師有在"},{"start":406.863,"end":424.437,"text":"研議如何去讓這個剛剛說的這個15歲到45歲這個國家所推出的這個心理諮商的服務讓這個有需要的人像剛剛您提到的這個學生輔導法一樣有一個可以"},{"start":425.458,"end":438.281,"text":"免除的這個那我想請教一件事因為你們的方案推展的不錯嘛那我們也希望加惠更多人嘛那現在到底這些15到18歲的未成年人他們使用這個方案到底需不需要法代同意"},{"start":441.956,"end":468.334,"text":"部長有掌握嗎因為我們剛剛是解讀操作法律操作了半天那現在就是實務上你有掌握使用這個方案有需要有法帶限制這個我要確切了解一下確切了解一下到底是不是都要那麼因為過去是如果是看這個精神醫師的話是一定要就是精神門診的話是一定要"},{"start":472.517,"end":499.453,"text":"諮商的部分比較沒有那麼那麼serious那麼嚴可是這個心理師法看起來就心理師諮詢諮商看起來就是我們剛剛操作半天嘛好那我現在跟部長講因為我也對這個問題非常關心所以我有特別上網去查了你們這個心理方案然後還有蠻詳細的QA那QA呢其中有一題就是15歲以上未成年人如果要使用本方案是否需要家長的同意書因為我想"},{"start":500.273,"end":526.439,"text":"那個正義點是在這邊嘛那你們的回答有兩個方向原則上建議高知法帶那建議聽起來就是不以法帶的同意為必要那第二個要件呢當然就援引到心理司法那心理司法當然我們操作半天覺得未成年人應該要得到法帶的同意才能夠接受心理諮商可是這裡又提到說並不以取得法帶的同意為唯一的要件那看起來你們這個方案是比較放寬的"},{"start":527.959,"end":549.458,"text":"相較於心理司法是比較放寬部長您剛剛不是說要了解一下嗎那這裡答案其實就已經出現了好那我想要點出一個問題說當然放寬我沒有反對而且甚至是支持的因為青少年他們不敢告訴家人所以他會變成說他沒有資源那沒有資源會不會讓心理的憂鬱程度又更加雪上加霜所以及時的介入很重要但是現在重點來了就是"},{"start":551.039,"end":571.733,"text":"實務上就是在使用這個方案實際操作的這些心理師他們有他們的認知也是要有法帶的同意這些青少年才能夠使用這個資源可是你們的QA其實其實是放寬的那所以部長這個問題是教育宣導不夠嗎因為看起來QA其實是放寬的可是第一線操作心理師並沒有掌握"},{"start":572.313,"end":587.954,"text":"那是教育宣導不夠嗎那如果是你們有放寬教育宣導不夠導致那些心理師他們覺得還是要有法官同意才能夠提供服務反而去阻缺了青少年使用你們這個利益良善的方案所以這邊部長是不是可以給我們示意一下"},{"start":588.615,"end":608.509,"text":"好 這個我們再強化去宣導啦那當然這個您對這個法律很精確啦所以當然在心理司法還有這些文字存在所以這中間在推動這個方案上我會找這個新建司來討論一下如何"},{"start":609.309,"end":627.272,"text":"也要保障這個心理師的權益然後讓這個需要者這些青少年也能夠容易取得這樣一個服務所以不管我這邊就是有兩個問題想要請你來做一些協助就是說因為我們剛剛有提到說你們的Q&A看起來是放寬"},{"start":628.593,"end":657.317,"text":"並不以法帶的同意為必要可是實務上有一些心理師確認為要那有沒有可能提供給我們一些資料就是到底現在目前目前實務的操作上到底是有多少比例是有經過法帶然後有多少比例是沒有經過法帶那也許我們掌握這個資訊可以進步來思考如何來協助這個資源的廣大普及到青少年那第二個問題就是說我想這個方案我們真的非常的支持那"},{"start":657.757,"end":663.398,"text":"因為你的年齡層往上提升到30歲提升到45歲那有沒有可能往下扎根我們再往下扎根加會到這個12歲到15歲的族群因為就如同我剛剛說的現在真的很早熟然後情感因素有些其實國中就有一些情感因素了那可不可以擴大地適用到這12歲的族群部長是不是有這個可能性我們來研究看看研究看看"},{"start":682.543,"end":690.77,"text":"不知道是不是可以一個月內給我們這些可行性的評估報告謝謝部長那我們就一起來為青少年的心理健康來一起努力謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}