{"error":false,"id":["168787"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168787,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168787","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T10:08:13+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T10:19:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442e67942f8cbe1046d5ab56d7e35fc4ecfd3cfaf5c3773194d0c48c7cb505eef785ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:08:13 - 10:19:12","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院、司法院函請審議「民法親屬編部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員范雲等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-1-3院會付委）\n（三）委員陳素月等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-1-7院會付委）\n（四）委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「民法第一千零三十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員范雲等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-3-6院會付委）\n（八）委員林月琴等22人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員陳素月等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-3-9院會付委）\n（十二）委員黃捷等18人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員賴惠員等24人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等18人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員范雲等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員邱鎮軍等16人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（十八）、（十九）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院、司法院函請審議「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（二）委員沈發惠等17人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（三）委員陳素月等17人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（四）委員賴惠員等24人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（五）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（六）委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（七）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n【第（七）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（八）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6722187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.283468750000001,"end":9.126593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.447218750000001,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.952843750000003,"end":15.775343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.29846875,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.99034375,"end":17.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.27596875,"end":26.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.28409375,"end":66.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.77159375000001,"end":91.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.56096875,"end":96.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.84284375,"end":99.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.91409375,"end":102.36096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.68159375,"end":103.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.67721875000001,"end":105.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.78659375000001,"end":112.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.50284375000001,"end":115.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.38846875,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.51471875000001,"end":125.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.61034375000001,"end":129.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.03596875,"end":135.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.06034375000002,"end":137.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.13596875000002,"end":141.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.74721875,"end":142.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.87784375,"end":144.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.49784375000002,"end":146.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.38346875000002,"end":151.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.60221875000002,"end":171.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.97034375,"end":184.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.38159375,"end":187.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.59221875,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.90784375,"end":194.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.28721875000002,"end":208.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.07846875,"end":211.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.23846875,"end":216.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.77346875,"end":217.80284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.88721875000002,"end":219.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.21596875,"end":222.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.86534375000002,"end":232.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.02409375000002,"end":250.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.60784375000003,"end":252.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.39659375000002,"end":255.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.78846875000002,"end":256.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.73346875000004,"end":259.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.70346875,"end":265.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.65596875,"end":268.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.41096875,"end":275.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.32534375,"end":279.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.08409375,"end":283.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.48471875,"end":282.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.21034375,"end":385.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.22721875,"end":283.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.04659375,"end":390.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.07534375,"end":406.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.56659375000004,"end":407.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.88284375,"end":415.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.93221875,"end":425.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.34409375,"end":427.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.82909375,"end":429.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.04409375,"end":429.07784375}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大法官會議解釋出來以後我們也不得不處理不得不處理那我想今天其實不是只有在談離婚那個談一個很根本的一個問題我相信各位其實都是專家所以你看今天來的職訓大家都不敢跟你們介紹你們說到你們的專家的時候 大家就可以借書來論書但是本席倒有一個想法就是說你當一個婚姻已經破裂那我們要不要讓人有尊嚴的離開"},{"start":56.598,"end":81,"text":"一個制度啦 我們現在離婚是允許的但是我們的制度的設計是也沒有辦法來保障弱勢不被犧牲啦我坦白講啦 今天排這個案子 我就認為說現在的版本 我看行政院跟司法院這邊所提的報告裡面呢其實還是有不一樣的一個地方 是會有不一樣的地方就是說現在院版呢 你也沒有給出完整的一個答案"},{"start":81.46,"end":102.201,"text":"所以我才這樣一直主張說趕快啊要來召開公聽會來全面來檢視啊離婚以後整個經濟制度的經濟的一個保障制度從今天我看到了不管司法院或者行政院大家談的就幾項而已嘛就是說從有責你走到破綻那你對於整個財產的一個揭露"},{"start":103.262,"end":128.337,"text":"舉證責任到贍養費的一個標準我看這個接下來額外比較迅速公聽完語我們就一次做完整的一個制度的一個重建那整個制度其實它是在改變的就你整個離婚制度那麼多國家在改變其實我們也經過修法那制度讓離婚制度讓它更進步但是又碰到一個問題啊我們也不能只讓"},{"start":130.123,"end":146.202,"text":"能走的人走掉然後弱勢的人留在原地這樣受傷我看這個也不對那從本來啊我們整個離婚制度是說本來是講說誰有誰不對誰有錯啊他現在變成說變得越來越寬鬆了就變成說"},{"start":147.783,"end":169.45,"text":"才破綻主義啦,你們就沒辦法做事啦,就隨人追求自己的幸福,那就可以了所以國際上的一個趨勢其實也很清楚,多數國家都從逐步過失走向婚姻是否實質的一個破裂啦那當然也去搭配整個分居事實作為判斷的一個標準,跟一些刻苦的一個條款,就是說鬆綁啦"},{"start":172.211,"end":194.734,"text":"但是弱勢還是要去保護,可是我發現一個問題,司法院跟法務部這個地方針對於剩餘財產的一個分配,對於離婚弱勢配偶的一個保障,我看完以後,我一直在想一個問題,就是說,我們現在的規定,現行制度,是否真的有用?"},{"start":196.345,"end":201.752,"text":"有沒有辦法發揮它的作用有沒有辦法發揮它的作用你譬如說我們民法1030條1030條之3剩餘財產的保全措施的部分我們跟他講就說你這裡如果"},{"start":211.365,"end":230.311,"text":"你這個在法定財產至關稽消滅前五年內你處分分貨財產的位我會想你給他動作 給他財產追加來做一個計算就變成形成是一種數字上的一個概念而已那實務上裡面大家在看這些問題的時候會講說資訊"},{"start":233.072,"end":249.94,"text":"不對稱啦有時候要撐起來你也沒辦法啦有時候也有一些反效果啦就是認為說我財產比較多的一方我擔心被反向去評分所以我也要去做一個注定啦所以現在行政院的修法裡面要求增訂的是財產清澈希望說可以請求他方提出財產清澈跟"},{"start":255.994,"end":277.924,"text":"證明文件以強化夫妻財產揭露的義務,並落實剩餘財產分配請求權。那司法院認為喔,你10萬元已經沒必要了。聽長我看了你們司法院的報告,那是不是請法務部或者說司法院向社會大眾來做一個說明,你們的差距在什麼地方,是不是?總廷長你來講一下。"},{"start":284.003,"end":304.838,"text":"市長有關財產揭露的義務現在所針對的第二項 第一個欠缺比較具體的揭露內容第二個就是各項的明目 第二個欠缺了法定失權的效果他如果不提出有什麼失權效"},{"start":305.839,"end":328.946,"text":"那反而回到現行家事訴訟有夫妻可以提一個非送請求他提出財產的報告那這個不提出的話我們依照家事訴訟準用民訴就讓他失去那個所謂的效果來讓另一方得到那個利益這是我們第一個的想法"},{"start":329.446,"end":354.303,"text":"那第二個就是說這個部分因為他著重兩個立法目的第一個夫妻財產揭露的義務是要在這個平等權之下來落實就是雙方就財產的知悉權但第二個立法理由裡面有講到說他是也是屬於剩餘財產部分的一個公平的一個解決的一個方案讓他提出來結果呢我們剛剛委員有有有講了"},{"start":360.006,"end":385.019,"text":"之一那陸續裡面他都有提出這樣的義務 審判長也會一直前命他提出那麼這個是我們目前的思考但我們覺得這一條就是剛剛的10571022的這個可以 如果要那應該列到這個所謂的剩餘財產這一部分去這是以上我們的思考 謝謝"},{"start":386.129,"end":414.498,"text":"所以我看司法案件的意思是說如果對方不提出或者隱匿甚至造假他說法律效果的保安就是說要把他追加進去追加進去之後把追加計算這個婚後的財產的保安那其實剛剛廳長所提到這個部分你比如說明確化配合財產報告義務的範圍行使方式跟違反的一個效果譬如說你婚後財產的項目數額財產所在地變動情況這些原因我的一本席的意思就是說"},{"start":416.445,"end":424.997,"text":"司法院跟行政院 我們應該再去想想這個弱勢的配偶有沒有其他保障的一個機制"},{"start":426.394,"end":447.082,"text":"重點在這裡 重點 我想你看看我們認為還是院版的那個有節流義務因為我的意思就是我們不要只有宣誓性這個我認為是要有實質要定在實體法上那剛才司法院的看法那是屬於訴訟事件已經離婚事件裡面才有這樣的一個適用那我們是定在實體法上 實體法上"},{"start":448.683,"end":471.918,"text":"不但是有打那個官司啦 離婚訴訟啦齁其實在一個離婚的話我們認為只要有碰到這個問題就要有提出了揭露的義務我認為這個對一個弱勢的一個離婚配偶這才有一個保障這才會落實一個勝於財產分配請求的一個公平性這才能真正保障弱勢的一個配偶啦是 我看整個修法裡面"},{"start":473.534,"end":488.168,"text":"這當然去參考其他全世界國際上各個國家的離婚制度的一個修正喔台灣去跟上那當然是對的但問題就涉及到幾個比較要說的都錢啦尤其是比較要你剩餘財產嘛不然你再說就贍養費嘛像贍養費這個問題喔"},{"start":492.672,"end":519.102,"text":"這個制度其實以現在來看的話是幾乎是嚴重的一個失靈啦那院版的修法裡面確實是在往比較更正確的一個方向我現在就不只是我現在不給你局限裁判離婚我現在連協議離婚或是法院去調解和解各種法定的離婚方式全部都可以去請求了但問題來了等於說贍養費那到底是什麼如果你把它當成是一種婚姻期間的一個貢獻對他的一個補償的話"},{"start":521.863,"end":532.994,"text":"那好啦,那我們為什麼又再規定說,再婚以後他喪失贊養會的一個請求權,這個就奇怪了,所以我不知道你們這裡的看法,廳長你也看完了嗎?聽到沒有?"},{"start":538.513,"end":558.076,"text":"我說這個善養費啦善養費譬如說為什麼要給這個善養費夫妻之一方要給離婚都變為善養費就是說你對這個婚姻就有貢獻嘛時時有貢獻嘛可是我們現在修法又講說有貢獻所以給你善養費可是呢你又去走向另外一段婚姻的時候又消滅掉了"},{"start":560.258,"end":573.705,"text":"報告委員這個分兩個部分一個部分大家剛剛都論述了一個就是所謂的補償性質一個就是撫養性質那因為參佐世界國有新的立法例他一直強調"},{"start":574.645,"end":592.201,"text":"就是選擇這個所謂的一個裁量所謂的乾淨離婚就是讓這個家庭穩定 社會穩定所以就不要再去跟前婚姻有所糾葛那是採取這樣不過在這個"},{"start":593.922,"end":619.034,"text":"補償性質的部分如果在剩餘財產其他部分都沒有補償其實我們研究的結果它真的是如果設計這樣是沒有所謂的所謂這個對婦女所謂一切不歧視平等這部分似乎有待再斟酌了真的 我也認為啦所以我來 我趕快這個法因為憲判制也出來了"},{"start":619.634,"end":641.423,"text":"那確實是行政院這個地方 法務部這個地方我們也該有所作為按照憲法法庭的一個指示我們趕快來完成這一步的一個法律的重新的一個修正我看我再來做一個公聽讓整個制度讓他聽聽各方的一個意見讓這個制度去往前走你看今天大家講的時候大家意見會有所不一樣可是問題這是"},{"start":643.144,"end":656.945,"text":"就聽聽司法院 聽聽法務部 聽聽法學專家專家來喔 十幾個高級政策都不一樣但面對這整個制度的一個變革我相信應該大家來共同來想出一個解方啦好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}