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包委員因為一般都在百分之五 百分之十以內"},{"start":216.085,"end":236.478,"text":"所以你也不打算再調高就對了沒關係 這是你的答案你認為60%已經很高我不知道國人滿不滿意我個人是不滿意的那我現在在問一直在講日本模式總理長一直在講日本模式日本模式對於相關的加工廠有明確的稽查機制也有罰則我們現在有沒有我們有啊已經有了嗎有啊"},{"start":238.203,"end":252.594,"text":"好 你相關的罰金包括廢職指定資格的門檻你現在都已經有完整的機制我們如果再同意就是同意一般是如果查驗到我們就退運啦"},{"start":253.354,"end":256.657,"text":"有沒有罰則機制如果他有漏檢查或者有什麼樣的弊端的話有3萬到15萬我們用植物防疫檢疫法裡面第17條第1項的規定罰3萬到15萬來換國人的健康3萬到15萬國人可以接受這個是我提醒的點"},{"start":272.288,"end":299.118,"text":"我希望你們回去再思考一下胡次長我現在請衛福部的次長我現在要把焦點從看得見的發芽轉到看不見的化學殘留剛才大家一直在談龍奎檢但是事實上有另外一個問題房間署這一次的新規定有強調說要求美方在輸出前要在那個發芽要塗一個發芽抑制劑叫做克普芬要再塗一個發芽抑制劑"},{"start":299.958,"end":328.455,"text":"克普芬是好東西嗎看起來它可以抑制馬鈴薯不要太快發芽但是塗了之後對身體克普芬從國際的評估標準我看到的它對於造成身體的內分泌干擾還有輕人代謝致癌會有疑慮所以這件事情塗了這個事情抑制它發芽但是塗了之後對身體卻有傷害那我再回來看那個次長"},{"start":329.673,"end":345.307,"text":"克普芬我們現在在歐盟的標準是0.2ppm那我們現在是30ppm對不對我沒有講錯嗎這個標準我沒有講錯嘛歐盟對於克普芬的殘留是0.2ppm台灣目前對克普芬"},{"start":355.316,"end":357.357,"text":"歐盟對於克普芬的殘留容許值是0.2ppm我們台灣目前容許殘留值是30ppm除了一個輪迴減之外我們現在要求美方競選馬鈴薯"},{"start":375.285,"end":383.868,"text":"克普芬這個東西但是我們卻高於歐盟的這個標準是150倍這個150倍對我們身體的傷害是造成內分泌的影響還有包括致癌的影響這個我覺得是你們要去思考的那我現在再請問就是說包括克普芬還有包括克普芬產生的代謝物三氯苯胺克普芬因為會產生三氯苯胺我們未來"},{"start":401.035,"end":413.85,"text":"有沒有抽檢的比例除了大家說看到這個發芽的部分其實看不到的是另外一個對我們身體的隱憂這是我擔心的那我們到底有沒有抽檢的數據跟抽檢率有沒有設定這個標準有沒有"},{"start":414.588,"end":443.233,"text":"有 這個都有那包委員 這個其實都107年定下來的那跟其他 雖然歐盟是0.2但是美國大概都是30因為我擔心我們現在大量進口美國的馬鈴薯因為台美套餘的關係我也不反對但是國安的需要我是要把關的不管你是什麼時候定我覺得國安不能夠忍受現在我們對於克普菲恩包括三立本案的殘留值超過歐盟的150倍這是我要提醒你的地方是跟其他國家都是30pp"},{"start":444.053,"end":460.513,"text":"不要不要各位這是跟美國Codex一樣但是對歐盟卻高於150倍我相信對國人來說食安過去蔡政府是五個洞現在在內政府變成七個洞十個洞我相信是國人不能夠接受的大家國人對於喜歡吃薯條吃馬鈴薯片"},{"start":463.055,"end":481.586,"text":"因為大家都特別是年輕人很喜歡吃這個對身體是長遠的影響這也是我在那監督的立場組長我要提醒你的地方你們回去思考我認為國人不能接受你們要開放這些東西對於殘留值的標準要再嚴格把關比照澳門的標準是我要提醒的地方我的時間到我先接下來請主計長你們先請回主計長我最近我還是要關心一下不是主計長對不起沈記長"},{"start":489.811,"end":513.668,"text":"我留時間 沈記長最近台灣有幾個重大的公共工程的爆發的事件我在媒體上有看到包括第一件是移民署的防彈背心採購案第二個是我們包括月初我在媒體上看到的是七街碼頭城鄉工程案這些聯戰署現在已經接獲已經介入調查"},{"start":515.209,"end":541.082,"text":"包括在媒體看到的相關的一些事件我們審計處也會不會也介入調查也會不會去進一步做了解會 因為剛剛講的那個黃蛋背心是我們審計部查出來的好 主席講這個第一個案子是因為採購的偽劣品蒙混這是一個重大的工程的一個弊端那另外一個是重大工程異地失作看起來好像圖利包括工程延宕"},{"start":542.122,"end":553.046,"text":"共同的問題都是履約審查跟監督的機制失靈了就是在工程還在進行當中我不希望每一次都是審計處在事後我們才發現問題在執行契約的過程當中我們如果能夠發現問題當然是更好"},{"start":561.209,"end":585.32,"text":"所以到目前包括我們七階的工程我剛剛指的第二項是255億的工程港務公司表示施工的計畫包括建造審定包括變更施作的地點會不會影響招標的條件跟公正性不是港務公司說了算我要提醒就是說我覺得包括防彈背心案也是都是說都是事後我們才發現問題所以我覺得我們勢必要在"},{"start":586.48,"end":605.221,"text":"更有想辦法或用不同的一些工具輔助工具或者用不同的機制去對於正在進行招標的相關的案子不定時的去做更多的抽查同樣來說對於採購的一些項目包括重大工程我覺得有沒有涉及契約條件實質的變更內容"},{"start":608.385,"end":618.785,"text":"實時的條件片跟內容我覺得我們也應該要有更多的一些啟動的專案調查機制列入我們平常在重點審查的項目"},{"start":619.858,"end":626.324,"text":"這個期間總經費高達951億所以不容讓他這每一塊錢都是民脂民膏我們不要事後才發現事後才發現罰款不是我們的目的主席長我要提醒我們最後的記者給我最後一張圖"},{"start":642.858,"end":659.525,"text":"我們現在機關的改善每一年我看到說有七成好像改善但是還有三成仍待改善我覺得這個三成的部分25%仍待改善所以我覺得怎麼樣有更多的工具跟牙齒讓我們審計處對於各單位"},{"start":662.586,"end":690.193,"text":"待改善的项目比例应该逐年降低想办法了不然我给你人对不对我们去年我们多给你一个副主计长一个给你人地方也增加人我都希望我们的主计单位审计单位可以发挥的更好包括我们电脑辅助相关科技AI辅助工具可以做更多的查核这些比例我希望都可以降低可以抓出来然后改善我们现在各单位在执行的相关的业务跟招标的"},{"start":692.414,"end":701.58,"text":"我們都會 這一種沒有改善的我們都會追蹤再來這些沒改善的大部分都受制度還有法律規定我們會通知相關單位像這一種的會一直堅持不改善的"},{"start":714.528,"end":733.064,"text":"相關單位有問題的不改善就給他明年預算就給他少一點啊對不對多的錢沒有給其他表現好的單位啊不然誰被審計到有問題的不改善預算來照樣給他這審計處再跟不再沒有意義嘛對不對主席想點頭了我們明年我會繼續追好不好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:11:35.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:11:35.550000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:11:36.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:11:43.975000+08:00","text":"邀請農業部胡政次、衛福部莊次長，以及食藥署同仁一起上來，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:11:43.975000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:11:44.975000+08:00","text":"農業部胡政次、衛福部莊次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:11:43.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:11:43.995000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:11:49.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:11:50+08:00","text":"次長，你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:11:50.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:12:06.992000+08:00","text":"這一次有關美國馬鈴薯進口爭議，無論剛才回應說，我們很多規定都沒有調整，但是檢疫署在今年2月6號對於檢疫條件其實還是有調整，調整把它分成加工跟鮮食分流管理，對不對？對。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:12:06.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:12:14.038000+08:00","text":"這個管理的調整，我個人認為真正的風險不是一顆丟掉或要不要挖掉的問題，而是目前整套配套措施能不能撐得住調整的機制，對於國人食安的風險到底是什麼？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:12:29.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:12:37.861000+08:00","text":"現在防線關鍵字是「指定加工廠」，我們現在有一道邊境管理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:12:38.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:12:45.907000+08:00","text":"第二道是送到指定加工廠，不合格的我們要整顆、整箱銷毀；合格的才能合法輸入。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:12:46.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:12:52.111000+08:00","text":"我要請問我們現在境內關外的新規定，指定加工廠廠商有幾家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:12:57.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:01.397000+08:00","text":"有17家申請為國內進口指定加工廠。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:01.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:01.997000+08:00","text":"指定的地點有幾處？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:01.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:02.118000+08:00","text":"進口商有幾處？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:02.118000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:03.118000+08:00","text":"指定的地點有幾處？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:02.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:02.358000+08:00","text":"有足夠的篩選機器嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:11.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:17.396000+08:00","text":"我們現在總處理量，未來預估馬鈴薯總進來的量到底有多少公噸？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:17.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:25.644000+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法足以消化馬鈴薯進口約四成的量，就是進口占比約四成的量，有沒有辦法去做這樣的篩選機制？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:27.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:31.587000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果在邊境我們檢查到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:32.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:43.309000+08:00","text":"你不要再重複之前講的話，因為現在新的調整機制進口分成加工跟鮮食，有問題的送到第二關。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:43.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:57.515000+08:00","text":"我的問題是，第二關沒有把關好，第一關邊境發生問題，加工篩選地點沒把關好、放水，那吃到東西就影響國人健康問題，你懂我的意思嗎？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:57.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:13:57.735000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:13:58.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:06.345000+08:00","text":"邊境的同仁管得很辛苦、看得很仔細，而後面指定加工廠……所以我剛才為什麼這樣問你？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:06.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:11.010000+08:00","text":"我問你到底有幾家廠商，然後指定地點到底有幾處？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:11.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:14.334000+08:00","text":"未來總處理量可以有多少公噸？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:14.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:22.638000+08:00","text":"要不然進來這麼多，只有能力看那麼一點，都塞在那邊或者沒有仔細看，後面就是我們食安的問題，這是我第一點要凸顯的問題。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:23.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:33.942000+08:00","text":"防檢署一再強調，你們有邊境檢查加上加工廠篩選雙重機制，但是這個監管機制是不是像現在檢查大蒜一樣？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:33.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:38.204000+08:00","text":"就是看大蒜有沒有跟土合在一起，我們是用這樣的判定機制嗎？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:39.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:40.307000+08:00","text":"目前我們是檢疫……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:41.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:42.749000+08:00","text":"還是你們是不定期的？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:43.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:47.132000+08:00","text":"你們是每一顆都看還是不定期抽查？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:47.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:53.916000+08:00","text":"在邊境，如果申報來的話，每一批我們是抽檢60%，所以……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:55.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:14:57.658000+08:00","text":"以後會再增加嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:14:57.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:03.141000+08:00","text":"因為以後跟美國進口馬鈴薯的量可能會再增加，你會再增加抽檢機制的量嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:04.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:07.944000+08:00","text":"60%已經很高了，因為一般都5%、10%以內。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:09.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:11.046000+08:00","text":"所以你也不打算再調高就對了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:11.046000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:12.046000+08:00","text":"不是，要有人力跟經費……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:11.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:16.450000+08:00","text":"沒關係，這是你的答案，你認為60%已經很高，我不知道國人滿不滿意，我個人是不滿意的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:16.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:27.637000+08:00","text":"我再問，卓院長一直在講日本模式，其對相關加工廠有明確的稽查機制也有罰則，我們現在有沒有？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:28.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:28.618000+08:00","text":"我們有啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:29.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:31.203000+08:00","text":"已經有了嗎？有啊！好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:31.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:38.668000+08:00","text":"相關罰金，包括廢止指定資格門檻現在都已經有完整的機制？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:43.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:45.574000+08:00","text":"一般如果查驗到我們就退運……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:46.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:46.474000+08:00","text":"有沒有罰則機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:46.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:47.695000+08:00","text":"如果它有漏檢查、有弊端或放水的話，有沒有相關……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:47.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:48.456000+08:00","text":"3萬到15萬，我們用植物防疫檢疫法裡面第十七條第一項的規定，可以罰他。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:48.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:15:49.216000+08:00","text":"罰3萬到15萬來換國人健康，3萬到15萬國人可以接受？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:15:49.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:16:08.029000+08:00","text":"這是我提醒的點，我希望你們回去再思考一下，胡次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:16:08.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:16:36.140000+08:00","text":"我現在請衛福部次長，我現在要把焦點從看得見的發芽轉到看不見的化學殘留，剛才大家一直在談龍葵鹼，但是事實上有另外一個問題，防檢署這次的新規定有強調說，要求美方在輸出前要塗一個發芽抑制劑，叫做克普芬，克普芬是好東西嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:16:36.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:16:59.353000+08:00","text":"看起來它可以抑制馬鈴薯不要太快發芽，但是塗了之後，從國際對於克普芬的評估標準，我看到它造成身體內分泌干擾，還有代謝物致癌會有疑慮，所以塗了克普芬會抑制它發芽，但是塗了之後，對身體卻有傷害。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:16:59.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:14.804000+08:00","text":"次長，我再回來看克普芬現在歐盟的標準是0.2 ppm，我們現在是30 ppm，對不對？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:15.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:15.585000+08:00","text":"這個標準我沒有講錯嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:15.585000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:16.585000+08:00","text":"報告委員，對於歐盟……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:15.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:18.287000+08:00","text":"歐盟對於克普芬的殘留是0.2 ppm，臺灣目前對克普芬……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:18.287000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:23.301500+08:00","text":"不過其他各國都是30 ppm。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:23.301500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:28.316000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我講的標準沒有錯，我沒有亂講嘛？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:28.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:17:54.107000+08:00","text":"歐盟對於克普芬的殘留容許值是0.2 ppm，我們臺灣目前容許殘留值是30 ppm，除了龍葵鹼之外，我們現在要求美方進馬鈴薯要塗克普芬這個東西，但是我們的標準卻高於歐盟標準150倍，150倍對我們身體的傷害會造成內分泌的影響，還有包括致癌的影響，這個是我覺得你們要去思考的。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:17:54.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:15.096000+08:00","text":"我現在再請問，包括克普芬還有克普芬產生的代謝物三氯苯胺，克普芬會產生三氯苯胺，我們未來有沒有抽檢的比例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:15.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:24.828000+08:00","text":"除了大家看到發芽的部分，其實看不到的是另外一個對我們身體的隱憂，這是我擔心的，我們到底有沒有抽檢的數據跟抽檢率？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:25.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:26.410000+08:00","text":"有沒有設定這個標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:26.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:36.049000+08:00","text":"有，這個都有，報告委員，這個其實是107年訂下來的，雖然歐盟是0.2 ppm，但是美國跟日本都是30 ppm。","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:36.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:41.550000+08:00","text":"我擔心我們現在大量進口美國的馬鈴薯，因為臺美貿易的關係，我也不反對。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:41.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:42.550000+08:00","text":"是都有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:41.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:54.153000+08:00","text":"但是國人的食安，我是要把關的，不管是什麼時候訂，我覺得國人不能夠忍受現在我們對於克普芬，包括三氯苯胺的殘留值超過歐盟的150倍，這是我要提醒你的地方，我這一題到此為止……","quality":0.77},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:54.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:18:56.213000+08:00","text":"但是其他國家都是30 ppm。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:18:57.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:31.485000+08:00","text":"不要跟我講這跟美國Codex一樣，但是相對於歐盟卻高於150倍，我相信對國人來說，食安過去蔡政府是5個洞，現在賴政府變成7個洞、10個洞，我相信國人不能夠接受，國人喜歡吃薯條、馬鈴薯片，特別是年輕人很喜歡吃，這個對身體是長遠的影響，我站在監督的立場，次長，我要提醒你們的地方，請你們回去思考，我認為國人不能接受，你們要開放這些東西還有對於殘留值的標準，要不要再嚴格把關，比照歐盟的標準是我要提醒的地方。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:31.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:33.426000+08:00","text":"我的時間到了，接下來請主計長，你們先請回。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:33.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:34.186000+08:00","text":"主計長，我最近我還是要關心一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:34.186000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:35.186000+08:00","text":"請主計長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:34.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:34.446000+08:00","text":"不是主計長，對不起，是請審計長。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:34.446000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:42.811000+08:00","text":"請陳審計長。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:42.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:19:45.373000+08:00","text":"我來不及問了，我沒時間。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:19:46.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:20:06.648000+08:00","text":"審計長，最近臺灣爆發幾個重大公共工程的事件，我在媒體上有看到：第一件是移民署的防彈背心採購案；第二個是月初我在媒體上看到七接碼頭沉箱工程案，廉政署現在已經接獲這些案件並已經介入調查。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:20:08.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:20:15.072000+08:00","text":"在媒體看到相關的一些事件，審計處會不會介入調查、會不會進一步了解？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:20:17.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:20:20.315000+08:00","text":"會，剛剛講的防彈背心是我們審計部查出來的。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:20:22.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:10.676000+08:00","text":"審計長，第一個案子是因為採購用劣質品蒙混，是一個重大的工程弊端；另外一個是重大工程異地施作，看起來好像是圖利，包括工程延宕，共同的問題都是履約審查跟監督的機制失靈了，工程還在進行當中，我不希望每一次都是審計處事後才發現問題，在執行契約的過程當中，我們如果能夠發現問題當然是更好，所以到目前包括七接的工程，我剛剛指的第二項是255億的工程，港務公司表示施工的計畫包括監造、審定、變更施作地點，會不會影響招標的條件跟公正性，不是港務公司說了算。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:11.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:30.252000+08:00","text":"我要提醒的是，包括防彈背心案也是，都是事後才發現問題，所以我覺得我們勢必要再想辦法，用一些不同的工具、輔助工具或者用不同的機制，對於正在進行招標的相關案子，不定時地去做更多的抽查。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:32.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:51.765000+08:00","text":"通案來說，對於採購的一些項目包括重大工程，我覺得有沒有涉及契約條件實質的變更內容，也應該要有更多一些啟動專案調查機制，列入我們平常重點審查的項目。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:52.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:52.938000+08:00","text":"會的，這一個七接總經費高達950億。是。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:52.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:53.599000+08:00","text":"所以不容他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:53.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:54.900000+08:00","text":"每一塊錢都是民脂民膏。對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:54.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:56.241000+08:00","text":"我們不要事後才發現……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:56.241000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:57.241000+08:00","text":"所以我們會密切注意這個案子。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:56.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:57.402000+08:00","text":"事後才發現，罰款不是我們的目的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:57.402000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:58.603000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:21:58.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:21:59.324000+08:00","text":"給我最後一張簡報圖。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:22:15.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:22:41.948000+08:00","text":"我們現在機關的改善，我看到每一年有七成好像改善，但是還有25%仍待改善，所以我覺得怎麼樣有更多的工具跟牙齒，讓審計處對於各單位待改善的項目比例逐年降低，要想辦法，不然我給你人，對不對？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:22:42.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:03.173000+08:00","text":"我們去年多給你一個副主計長，給你人，地方也增加人，我希望我們的審計單位可以發揮得更好，包括電腦輔助相關科技、AI輔助工具可以做更多的查核，這些比例我希望都可以降低、可以抓出來，然後改善現在各單位執行相關業務跟招標的項目，可不可以？","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:05.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:13.299000+08:00","text":"我們都會追蹤，沒有改善的我們都會追蹤，再來，這些沒改善的大部分都受制度跟法律規定，所以我們……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:13.299000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:14.299000+08:00","text":"除了追蹤之外，必須要求，另外，不改善的話，明年主計長那邊就預算項目給它刪掉，甚至降低，有一些處罰的機制。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:13.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:14.400000+08:00","text":"好，我們會通知相關單位，像這種一直堅持不改善……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:27.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:32.893000+08:00","text":"主計長，相關單位有問題不改善，就讓它明年預算少一點，對不對？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:32.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:42.921000+08:00","text":"多的錢挪給其他表現好的單位，不然誰被審計到有問題不改善，預算還照樣給，這樣審計處在跟不在就沒有意義了嘛，對不對？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"李委員彥秀","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:42.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:46.064000+08:00","text":"主計長點頭了，明年我會繼續追，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:46.564000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:47.992571+08:00","text":"好，我們追蹤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（李委員彥秀）","start":"2026-04-23T10:23:48.292571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:23:51.435429+08:00","text":"接下來請賴士葆委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}