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邊境進來邊境的話我們沒有百分之百邊境做不到啦那個那個 為何不能來莊市長做得到嗎依照規定我們是抽驗就是驗百分之二 百分之四如果不合格全部退是不是對 或者消毀是不是對 退役或消毀來 莊市長"},{"start":76.213,"end":101.549,"text":"請問你海關邊境進來的有多少人?海關多少人?可以檢驗馬鈴薯的多少人?人數是吧?我們沒有專門為這個設定一個專門的團隊啦我只知道八十幾個人啦你們做得到嗎?儲物科這樣檢驗做得到嗎?全部我們加起來就是在運用人力大概一百多人啦是啊這個你知道進來有幾個來 農業部的長官來來來"},{"start":106.626,"end":131.525,"text":"我們進來一批多少?幾顆?不是一批,現在一年的話是兩萬七千噸幾顆?幾量?幾量?一顆大概三百公克所以幾個?一櫃的話二十五公噸兩百幾顆?進口的量喔?一萬噸的話是三千三百三十三萬顆三千三百多萬顆?對,二點七萬噸的話將近一億顆"},{"start":135.548,"end":152.616,"text":"一億顆,不只一顆,我算一塊五億顆喔一億啦,大概一億一億顆,一億顆你打下去撿,怎麼做不到啦不是啦,因為院長的意思是在加工廠裡面是逐批、逐貴、逐顆啦那個是在加工廠裡面我們做我講的是,因為他給人家感覺是邊境管理啦"},{"start":155.137,"end":171.126,"text":"冰淨的話我們如果驗到不行就整退整退就退了所以這個就很明顯的他這個東西不知道腦子發熱了說可以足科去檢驗了足科去檢驗然後然後可以的壞的就把它退掉哪裡有這樣子是整必退啦"},{"start":172.606,"end":196.094,"text":"現在就是這樣子了整逼退了人民的食安遠高於沒有任何的政治利益可以來交換這個請兩位長官要把守這個這個某種程度等於農業部跟衛福部打臉行政院的院長的講法好 兩位請回我請教財政部的次長 阮次長"},{"start":200.579,"end":200.8,"text":"現在因為中東戰火"},{"start":205.646,"end":233.166,"text":"一天數電 到底是要停我不停我 要停止封鎖不停止封鎖不知道變化太大了所以就有人想到說今年的報稅能不能夠延後一個月報稅可不可以跟委員報告我們去年是因為美國宣布我們有一個對等關稅32%所以那時候為了考慮到民間的需求所以我們是有展延一個月"},{"start":234.006,"end":243.661,"text":"但是今年到目前為止,我們現在股市已經上了三萬七了所以整個來講,股市非常穩健,所以目前是沒有這樣的規劃"},{"start":248.092,"end":271.413,"text":"沒有這樣規劃 去想一下喔 過兩天你可能就重溫了喔總之請人家一問的話 院長一答應你就乖乖答應喔這你們應該想好喔 然後人家一問問你啦你是管這個國庫的喔 財政部這次取得國票的經營權老實講這是一個 全世界都是"},{"start":272.734,"end":282.828,"text":"工轉民啦 沒有民轉工啦這是開世界潮流的倒車啦齁只有一個 也要變成第九家的光谷航庫喔是吧真的嗎 委員的意思是"},{"start":287.227,"end":294.011,"text":"你回答是不是嘛 第九家嘛目前當然 因為還沒改選完嘛改選完就變第九家嘛改選完以後要看改選出來的結果他想要這麼小的一個size這麼小的一個國票金"},{"start":307.984,"end":333.048,"text":"你為什麼要併他只有一個原因我再猜了只有一個理由嘛你要推動公共併嘛結果以後他要併到我的公共銀行裡面因為現在民間銀行的金空越來越大越來越大我也要有競爭力所以我想辦法我也提升我的公共販公共的競爭力才有道理不然的話我實在想不出道理為什麼要推這個東西啊"},{"start":333.368,"end":353.418,"text":"其實跟委員報告,其實最主要是國票清,那麼這個二十幾年來,內鬥不斷內鬥跟你有關的,那個民主的大使要跟你有關的公股的,潘公股一直都在裡面,可是一直沒有辦法解決這方面的問題內鬥就多了,內鬥就多了,何時才有,你就揭露"},{"start":357.96,"end":380.736,"text":"沒有講真話 市長 你在這裡沒有講真話我們這個是為了要整頓這個 整頓國安金整頓國安金 哇 浩偉大你怎麼可以這個長臂拐斜的拐到民間 這個全世界自從蘇聯解體以後 全世界就一股公變成民的熱潮"},{"start":382.062,"end":393.178,"text":"全世界都是名誉 宮古的 韓國的變成名誉化比較多而不是像現在是開倒車所以只有一個原因啦 我猜啦"},{"start":394.181,"end":414.667,"text":"你準備要推動 進一步的推動公共病目前是沒有這樣的規劃我現在跟委員報告我們現在會介入這個案子因為老實講 國票監控是我們現在所有監控裡面最少的那我們要介入 其實最主要就是"},{"start":420.229,"end":437.666,"text":"市長你今天人蠻力 你今天都言不由衷啦我這個沒有時間問你 下次再問你這一題今天叫言不由衷 滿口胡話啦請你回答我們請一下陳主席長請一下陳主席長跟沈機長一起沈機長"},{"start":442.916,"end":446.481,"text":"2031年人均GDP要高出日本韓國一萬塊我們的主計總數平均薪資四萬八"},{"start":463.904,"end":486.404,"text":"請問主席長平均是四萬八六成以上的領不到平均薪資啦現在景氣是都集中在AI概念股你知不知道如果今天我們股票說剛才講了財政部長說一直漲很熱三萬七、三萬八如果把台積電抽掉"},{"start":487.325,"end":502.283,"text":"有人給他算一算啦如果把台積電今天沒有台積電我們大概就兩萬億我們就兩萬一千點我們就兩萬一千點所以這是暴力的台灣非常嚴重的經濟荷蘭病"},{"start":503.786,"end":530.948,"text":"我查了我們現在今年1月到3月上市股票漲幅大於高盤大盤的211家11%左右上櫃116家8.33左右上市櫃公司總共有1933家換言之現在台灣的百姓是只要你的資金都沒有去買股票的話你就相對吃貧乎了"},{"start":532.489,"end":553.661,"text":"如果你要不要買到AI概念股,那你也一樣就變這個樣子,所以我們是嚴重的扭曲哇好看,非常好看啊,這個叫什麼?賺的指數賠了股價,沒賺錢啊主計長,我們再看下一張,我再給主計長看一下有沒有機構發佈說明經濟信心"},{"start":559.707,"end":564.489,"text":"警機長王下滑 消費業下滑 股市投資下滑37%認為今年的GDP超過7%因為你講7點 主計長說過7點多吧超過7%的37%60%認為CPI要超過2%這個數字"},{"start":579.969,"end":595.342,"text":"是老百姓普遍人心聲不到四成的人認同你的講法說我們今年GDP會高於七八即便高於七八也都是AI概念股台積電如果抽掉只剩兩萬億你有沒有回應一下"},{"start":597.543,"end":624.625,"text":"對就是AI概念AI的部分的確佔重要的部分但是其他它也帶動其他沒有啊它的沒有啊對所以它譬如說它上游的原料啊那擴充產能廠房增添設備沒有啊帶動建材還有金屬這些的一個成長所以它不是只有AI概念回到上一章來回到上一章你就可以看嘛"},{"start":625.365,"end":634.573,"text":"你這個大盤,這大盤就是台積電撐起來的大一大盤的只有11%嘛上櫃的大一大盤的只有8.38%就很明顯加起來不到兩成啊那我要上升喔,我們沒有所謂荷蘭病啦因為荷蘭病它只是集中一個產業但是我們其實相對的產業其他其他傳統產業也有上升只是它上升的弧度還有歪的一個那麼大"},{"start":652.108,"end":656.432,"text":"你有糾正過我要替台北市政府降花回來村的水庫長期被台電壓榨他回水庫過去四年一度店賣給台電1.5到2塊錢左右"},{"start":677.096,"end":702.555,"text":"光電4塊到5塊 風電有時候高達7塊錢一年它賣了2億度電了所以等於我們一年來講的話台北市政府就被台電坑了4億了檢察院糾正過你們糾正說收購匯率偏低現在還偏低 全部檢察院對這個事情怎麼處理"},{"start":703.646,"end":708.37,"text":"因為整個是綠電喔因為它水利發電是綠電綠電光電4到5塊風電有時候高達7塊5到7塊但是為什麼翡翠水庫就給它收1塊半到2塊錢而已過去4年"},{"start":718.912,"end":729.443,"text":"這一個部分是我們審計部去查的有這樣的一個現象就我們後來監察院在看我們的審計報告的時候他會把這個問題他們再調查一次所以他們提出糾正這個我們會繼續追蹤"},{"start":744.256,"end":764.46,"text":"我們會追蹤怎麼樣是一個合理處理的方案把一個事情 把它合理就是台電加價 回居石庫加價吧這個是我們同仁努力的最後一個 現在什麼高德地圖在台灣很老用的就是一個APP"},{"start":766.721,"end":786.261,"text":"裡面就是放這個讓紅利的描述很準的結果說這個可能有治安的問題可能要什麼 一個非紅供應鏈我就問你 請問非紅供應鏈是不是在審計部的審計範圍裡面要查所有的零組件通通不可以佔到大陸一點點"},{"start":787.678,"end":812.344,"text":"這一個部分我們要看國家的規定國家的規定如果都是說不可以為什麼會規定不可以是不是合理我們也會進行了解所以這一個部分就是我們審計在做的每次審計不容易做到一個舉例我們要發展無人機無人機全世界最大戰火力是大中歐大陸"},{"start":813.7,"end":832.502,"text":"百分之七十關鍵民主圈也來自於中國大陸所以你阿拉伯阿拉伯你看剛才講高德地圖這個我們不是跟大陸買的啊是跟荷蘭買的啊可是呢它裡面有一點東西是大陸的啊就變成這樣沒來沒去都會賭到勒"},{"start":834.221,"end":859.802,"text":"所以這個規定啊 政府的規定啊 我們會注意到它規定的一個造成 是不是普遍的不適合我們會提出我們軍人穿的衣服 對所以我們也在查 你的投標稀珠啊 是怎麼規定的去好好去落實 如果做不到也要讓行政部門知道 這個其實"},{"start":860.683,"end":861.326,"text":"不容易做到了好 我們謝謝 後續的再請用書面回覆"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:02.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:05.536000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:05.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:20.749000+08:00","text":"有請農業部胡政次，衛福部的莊常次，財政部的阮次長，三位長官一起，好嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:20.749000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:25.044000+08:00","text":"請胡次長、莊次長、阮次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:25.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:25.284000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:26.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:31.991000+08:00","text":"我請教農業部，還有衛福部長官，這個很簡單的一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:32.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:39.397000+08:00","text":"行政院院長說進口的馬鈴薯要逐顆檢驗，做得到做不到？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:40.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:47.265000+08:00","text":"這個在加工廠裡面，就是配合檢疫的指定加工廠裡面，事實上是可以做得到的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:48.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:50.516000+08:00","text":"邊境進來的？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:50.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:52.197000+08:00","text":"邊境的話，我們沒有百分之百。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:52.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:54.058000+08:00","text":"邊境做不到啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:57.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:24:59.320000+08:00","text":"衛福部莊次長，做得到嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:24:59.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:00.881000+08:00","text":"依照規定，我們是抽驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:00.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:04.863000+08:00","text":"抽驗幾趴？2%、10%。2%、10%？是。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:04.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:07.764000+08:00","text":"如果不合格就全部退，是不是？對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:07.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:09.585000+08:00","text":"或者銷毀，是不是？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:09.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:10.285000+08:00","text":"對，退運或銷毀。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:10.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:19.357000+08:00","text":"阮次長，請問海關檢驗邊境進來的有多少人，海關可以檢驗馬鈴薯的有多少人？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:20.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:21.058000+08:00","text":"人數是嗎？是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:21.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:25.721000+08:00","text":"我們沒有專門為這個設定一個專門的團隊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:25.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:29.203000+08:00","text":"就我所知是八十幾個人，你們做得到嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:30.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:31.825000+08:00","text":"逐顆檢驗做得到嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:31.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:35.387000+08:00","text":"全部加起來的運用人力大概一百多人啦。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:35.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:38.309000+08:00","text":"是啊，你知道進來的有幾顆？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:38.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:47.069000+08:00","text":"農業部的長官，我們進來一批都幾顆？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:48.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:52.393000+08:00","text":"現在一年的話是2萬7,000噸。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:52.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:52.393000+08:00","text":"幾顆啦？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:53.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:54.715000+08:00","text":"一顆大概300公克。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:55.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:56.136000+08:00","text":"所以幾顆？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:25:56.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:25:59.078000+08:00","text":"一櫃大概25公噸。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:01.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:01.040000+08:00","text":"聽不懂，幾顆啦？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:01.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:01.480000+08:00","text":"進口的量喔？對啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:03.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:05.583000+08:00","text":"1萬噸的話是3,333萬顆。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:05.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:06.704000+08:00","text":"三千三百多萬顆。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:06.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:08.525000+08:00","text":"對，2.7萬噸的話將近1億顆。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:12.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:14.729000+08:00","text":"1億顆，不只1億顆，我算起來快5億顆。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:15.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:16.410000+08:00","text":"1億啦，大概1億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:16.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:20.012000+08:00","text":"1億顆，每顆去挑選，我都做不到啦！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:20.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:27.795000+08:00","text":"不是啦，院長的意思是在加工廠裡面是逐批、逐櫃、逐顆，那個是在加工廠裡面，我們做……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:27.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:29.456000+08:00","text":"我講的是因為他給人家的感覺是邊境管理……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:32.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:35.579000+08:00","text":"邊境的話，我們如果驗到不行就會整櫃退了。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:35.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:47.165000+08:00","text":"這個就很明顯的，這個東西不知道是不是腦子發熱，說可以逐顆去檢驗，然後壞的就把它退掉，哪裡有這樣子？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:47.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:48.106000+08:00","text":"這整批退啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:48.106000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:49.606000+08:00","text":"要整批退……對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:49.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:50.266000+08:00","text":"現在就是這樣子啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:50.266000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:52.147000+08:00","text":"驗到的話……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:52.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:26:52.487000+08:00","text":"整批退啦！是。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:26:54.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:13.094000+08:00","text":"人民的食安遠高於一切，沒有任何的政治利益可以來交換，請我們兩位長官要把守這個，某種程度等於農業部跟衛福部打臉行政院院長的講法啦，好，兩位請回，我請教財政部阮次長。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:13.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:17.579000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:17.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:29.971000+08:00","text":"現在因為中東戰火一天數變，到底是要停火、不停火，要停止封鎖、不停止封鎖，不知道，變化太大了。是。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:31.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:36.856000+08:00","text":"所以就有人想到今年的報稅能不能夠延後一個月，可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:37.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:50.146000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，去年是因為美國宣布我們有一個對等關稅32%，所以那時候為了考慮到民間的需求，我們是有展延一個月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:50.146000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:51.146000+08:00","text":"今年呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:51.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:57.616000+08:00","text":"但是今年到目前為止，我們現在股市已經上了三萬七了，所以整個來講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:57.616000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:27:58.616000+08:00","text":"股市漲，不要延後了？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:27:57.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:00.661000+08:00","text":"非常的穩健啦，所以目前是沒有這樣的規劃。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:05.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:06.794000+08:00","text":"沒有這樣的規劃？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:06.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:07.554000+08:00","text":"去想一下喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:08.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:16.662000+08:00","text":"過兩天你可能就轉彎了喔，過兩天可能就轉彎了喔，總質詢有人問的話，院長一答應，你就乖乖答應喔，這個東西是這樣的。","quality":0.551},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:18.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:35.122000+08:00","text":"我來問問你，你是管國庫的，財政部這一次取得國票的經營權，老實講，全世界都是公轉民，沒有民轉公，這是開世界潮流的倒車啦！","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:36.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:39.007000+08:00","text":"只有一個，你要變成第9家的公股行庫，是吧？對吧？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:39.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:39.808000+08:00","text":"委員的意思是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:39.808000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:42.067500+08:00","text":"你變成第9家的公股行庫，目前8家泛公股，現在第9家。","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:42.067500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:44.327000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，這個案子……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:44.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:45.348000+08:00","text":"你回答是不是第9家嘛？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:45.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:46.628000+08:00","text":"目前當然如果……因為還沒改選完……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:46.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:47.389000+08:00","text":"對，改選完就變第9家嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:47.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:28:48.830000+08:00","text":"改選完後要看改選出來以後的結果，現在還不能確定。對啊！","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:28:49.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:30.028000+08:00","text":"它一個size這麼小的國票金，你為什麼併它只有一個原因，我在猜只有一個理由，你要推動公公併，就是以後它要併到我們公股銀行裡面，因為現在民間金控越來越大、越來越大，為了要有競爭力，所以要想辦法為了提升泛公股的競爭力才有道理，不然的話，我實在想不出道理，為什麼要推這個東西啊？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:30.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:39.433000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實最主要是國票金二十幾年來內鬥不斷……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:39.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:39.993000+08:00","text":"內鬥跟你也有關係？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:39.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:41.994000+08:00","text":"民間的事情，跟你也有關係？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:41.994000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:43.795000+08:00","text":"還要你介入？","quality":0},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:43.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:48.817000+08:00","text":"內鬥不斷，所以我們泛公股一直都在裡面，可是一直沒有辦法解決這方面的問題……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:48.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:50.238000+08:00","text":"如果是內鬥，金控可多了，好幾家都有，你都要介入？","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:50.238000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:54.960000+08:00","text":"怎麼那麼奇怪？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:54.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:29:58.723000+08:00","text":"你沒有講真話，次長，你這次沒有講真話？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:29:58.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:00.144000+08:00","text":"我們真的是為了要整頓金融的秩序……","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:00.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:01.104000+08:00","text":"整頓國票金？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:03.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:07.769000+08:00","text":"好偉大，你怎麼會長臂管轄管到民間？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:07.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:33.582000+08:00","text":"全世界自從蘇聯解體以後就有一股公變成民的熱潮，全世界都是公股的行庫變成民營化比較多，而不像你現在是開倒車，所以這一定只有一個原因，我猜啦，你準備要進一步推動公公併啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:35.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:38.003000+08:00","text":"目前是沒有這樣的規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:38.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:39.003000+08:00","text":"沒有嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:38.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:50.187000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我們現在會介入這個案子，因為老實講國票金控是現在所有金控裡面金額最小的嘛！","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:50.187000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:51.187000+08:00","text":"你管到國票金、管到民間企業，這個好奇怪啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:50.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:50.967000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼要介入？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:51.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:30:51.647000+08:00","text":"其實最主要就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:30:57.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:03.876000+08:00","text":"好啦，次長，你今天都言不由衷，我沒有時間問你了，下次再好好問你這一題。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:03.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:08.720000+08:00","text":"今天叫言不由衷、滿口胡話，請你回座……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:08.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:09.720000+08:00","text":"請委員多支持，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:09.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:10.720000+08:00","text":"請你回座，接下來請陳主計長和審計長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:10.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:11.720000+08:00","text":"請主計長和審計長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:11.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:12.720000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:09.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:23.461000+08:00","text":"主計長，你說多好又多好，主計總處說2031年我們的人均GDP要高出日本、韓國1萬塊，請問主計長，我們現在平均薪資4萬8,000是不是？","quality":0.451},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:44.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:45.748000+08:00","text":"是，平均是4萬8,000。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:46.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:31:49.311000+08:00","text":"六成以上的人領不到平均薪資啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:31:50.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:32:19.263000+08:00","text":"現在景氣熱都集中在AI概念股，你知不知道如果今天我們的股票……剛才財政部長說一直漲、很熱，指數衝到3萬7,000點、3萬8,000點，如果把台積電抽掉，有人給它算一算，如果今天沒有台積電，大概就剩2萬1,000點，所以這是道地的臺灣非常嚴重的經濟荷蘭病。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:32:20.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:32:38.960000+08:00","text":"我查了今年1月到3月上市股票漲幅高於大盤的有211家（占11%左右），上櫃116家（占8.33%左右），上市櫃公司總共有1,933家。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:32:39.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:32:57.053000+08:00","text":"換言之，現在臺灣老百姓只要資金都沒有去買股票的話，你就相對是赤貧戶，如果你又沒有買到AI概念股，那也一樣，就變這個樣子，所以我們是嚴重的扭曲啊！","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:32:58.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:33:02.636000+08:00","text":"表面上非常好看，這叫什麼？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:33:02.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:33:05.938000+08:00","text":"就是賺了指數、賠了股價，根本沒賺錢啊！","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:33:08.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:33:52.322000+08:00","text":"我們再看下一張，我再給主計長看一下，國泰金控發布庶民經濟信心指標，其中景氣展望下滑、消費意願下滑、股市投資下滑，37%的人認為今年的GDP會超過7%，因為主計長說過百分之七點多，所以認為會超過7%的人有37%，60%的人認為CPI會超過2%，這個數字是老百姓普遍的心聲，不到四成的人認同你的講法說我們今年GDP會高於7%，即便高於7%也都是AI概念股，台積電如果抽掉的話，就只剩2萬1,000點，你要不要回應一下？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T10:33:55.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:00.328000+08:00","text":"AI的確占重要的部分，但是它也帶動其他相關產業的發展……","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:00.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:01.689000+08:00","text":"沒有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:01.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:06.573000+08:00","text":"傳統股都不漲啊！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:06.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:18.422000+08:00","text":"包括它上游的原料，擴充產能及廠房增添設備、帶動建材還有金屬的成長，所以不是只有AI概念股……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:18.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:21.605000+08:00","text":"回到上一張，你就可以看嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:22.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:22.685000+08:00","text":"大盤就是台積電撐起來的嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:22.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:25.748000+08:00","text":"上市高於大盤漲幅的只有11%，上櫃漲幅高於大盤的只有8.3%，很明顯加起來不到兩成啊！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:26.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:31.553000+08:00","text":"我要重申我們沒有所謂的荷蘭病，因為荷蘭病只是集中在一個產業，但其實我們的其他傳統產業也有上升，只是上升的幅度沒有AI那麼大，所以這個部分我們也要……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:31.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:40.340500+08:00","text":"你去查查看，我都跟你講數字啦！","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:40.340500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:49.128000+08:00","text":"好啦，主計長，因為我時間有限，你請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:34:49.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:34:53.412000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題我想請教審計長，你們有糾正過，但我要替臺北市政府講話，翡翠水庫長期被台電壓榨，過去4年翡翠水庫一度電賣給台電1.5到2塊錢左右。","quality":0.541},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:14.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:31.409000+08:00","text":"光電4塊錢到5塊錢，風電有時候高達7塊錢，它一年賣了2億度電，以一年來講的話，等於臺北市政府就被台電坑了4億。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:32.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:39.535000+08:00","text":"監察院曾經提出糾正，你們糾正說收購費率偏低，結果到現在還是偏低，請問監察院對這件事情怎麼處理？","quality":0.674},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:39.535000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:41.066000+08:00","text":"這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:41.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:41.247000+08:00","text":"這個是綠電喔！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:41.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:41.807000+08:00","text":"因為水力發電是綠電。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:41.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:44.930000+08:00","text":"綠電、光電4到5塊錢，風電有時候高達5到7塊錢，為什麼過去4年翡翠水庫只給它收1.5到2塊錢而已？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:44.930000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:47.675500+08:00","text":"這一個部分是審計部去查的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:47.675500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:50.421000+08:00","text":"這個是綠電喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:50.421000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:53.166500+08:00","text":"因為水力發電是綠電。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:53.166500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:35:55.912000+08:00","text":"綠電、光電4到5塊錢，風電有時候高達5到7塊錢，為什麼過去4年翡翠水庫只給它收1.5到2塊錢而已？","quality":0.081},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:35:55.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:00.677000+08:00","text":"這個部分是我們審計部去查的，有這樣的現象。對。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:02.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:06.323000+08:00","text":"後來監察院在看我們的審計報告時，把這個問題再調查一次，所以他們提出糾正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:06.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:06.403000+08:00","text":"這個部分……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:06.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:07.403000+08:00","text":"糾正台電沒有給錢啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:07.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:08.403000+08:00","text":"台電沒有給補償費。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:06.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:23.196000+08:00","text":"對，我們會繼續追蹤、我們會追蹤。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:23.196000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:24.196000+08:00","text":"叫台電把錢拿來，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:23.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:25.296000+08:00","text":"我們會追蹤，找到怎麼樣是一個合理處理的方案。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:28.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:31.318000+08:00","text":"就是台電給翡翠水庫加價，對不對？對。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:31.318000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:32.818000+08:00","text":"就這個意思吧？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:32.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:34.838000+08:00","text":"這個是我們同仁努力的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:35.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:36:54.011000+08:00","text":"最後一個，現在說高德地圖在臺灣很好用，它就是一個app，裡面連紅綠燈秒數都很準，結果說這個可能有資安的問題，可能要非紅供應鏈。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:36:54.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:37:03.261000+08:00","text":"我就問你，非紅供應鏈是不是在審計部的審計範圍裡面，要查所有的零組件統統不可以沾到大陸一點點？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:37:03.261000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:37:04.678000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:37:04.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:37:17.261000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們要看國家的規定，國家的規定如果都是說不可以，那我們就……為什麼規定不可以、是不是合理，我們也會進行了解。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:37:17.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:37:21.402000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分就是我們審計在做的過程中……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:37:22.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:37:23.763000+08:00","text":"你去審計不容易做到。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:37:24.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:37:49.381000+08:00","text":"舉例來說，我們現在發展無人機，無人機全世界最大占有率是大中國大陸，70%關鍵零組件也來自於中國大陸，所以不管怎樣，剛才講高德地圖，我們不是跟大陸買的，是跟荷蘭買的，可是裡面還是有一點東西是大陸的，就變成這樣，不管怎樣都會遇到，這該怎麼辦？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:37:51.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:00.148000+08:00","text":"所以無論任何規定，我們會注意規定是不是會造成普遍的不適應，我們會提出。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:00.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:03.151000+08:00","text":"像我們軍人穿的衣服，說不定裡面就有大陸的。","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:05.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:10.197000+08:00","text":"所以我們也在查投標須知是怎麼規定的，我們會注意。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:13.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:16.462000+08:00","text":"要好好去落實，如果做不到，也要讓行政部門知道。好。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:16.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:17.844000+08:00","text":"這個其實不容易做到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:17.844000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:18.844000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:17.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:18.286000+08:00","text":"謝謝，後續的再請用書面回復。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:38:18.786000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:38:22.500286+08:00","text":"接下來請第6位林岱樺委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}