{"error":false,"id":["168802"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168802,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168802","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T10:53:32+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T11:06:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442a1fdc1380bb656046726ceb1fc879916a9438ec9e4ea00b359a766c9ad8cead35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"10:53:32 - 11:06:01","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、農業部陳部長駿季、衛生福利部石部長崇良、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿就「馬鈴薯輸入之邊境管制、檢疫、查驗等機制如何保障國人食品安全，及後市場抽驗預算執行情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計處、審計部高雄市審計處部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案有關第27款直轄市及縣市政府第3項一般性補助款-財政部主管第1目財政部、第2目國庫署；第13項一般性補助款-其他第1至8目。災害準備金。第二預備金。（僅詢答）\n【預算提案截止時間：4月23日（四）下午5時】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":0.03096875,"end":1.6003437500000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":13.41284375,"end":21.41159375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":34.034093750000004,"end":34.658468750000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":34.658468750000004,"end":48.95159375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":49.79534375,"end":108.08159375000001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":108.85784375,"end":167.65034375000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":168.15659375,"end":177.13409375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":177.91034375,"end":178.87221875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":181.53846875000002,"end":185.30159375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":186.16221875000002,"end":187.46159375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":188.01846875,"end":189.87471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":189.73971875,"end":191.32596875000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":192.01784375000003,"end":197.63721875000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":197.87346875,"end":202.95284375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":203.49284375000002,"end":203.57721875000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":203.57721875000001,"end":203.59409375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":203.59409375,"end":204.11721875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":203.83034375000003,"end":213.97221875000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":214.96784375000001,"end":215.74409375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":215.87909375,"end":217.34721875000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":219.16971875000002,"end":228.14721875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":228.14721875,"end":229.59846875000002,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":230.13846875000002,"end":244.76909375000002,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":245.30909375000002,"end":249.24096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":249.52784375000002,"end":252.22784375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":252.95346875,"end":253.37534375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":254.08409375000002,"end":256.53096875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":256.02471875000003,"end":256.39596875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":256.73346875000004,"end":257.93159375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":258.25221875,"end":266.50409375000004,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":265.93034375,"end":272.29221875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":268.29284375000003,"end":269.71034375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":272.19096875,"end":276.29159375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":276.69659375000003,"end":279.85221875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":280.27409375,"end":282.82221875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":283.41284375000004,"end":325.11096875000004,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":325.51596875,"end":333.95346875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":334.74659375000005,"end":336.06284375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":336.58596875,"end":338.56034375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":339.20159375000003,"end":341.05784375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":341.63159375000004,"end":344.93909375000004,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":345.02346875,"end":349.10721875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":350.62596875,"end":355.51971875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":355.63784375,"end":357.00471875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":357.32534375,"end":358.47284375000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":358.94534375,"end":365.88096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":366.01596875,"end":372.02346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":372.29346875000005,"end":378.38534375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":378.92534375,"end":384.52784375000005,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":384.86534375,"end":395.78346875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":396.13784375,"end":399.63096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":400.33971875000003,"end":419.49284375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":420.52221875000004,"end":433.95471875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":433.39784375000005,"end":438.69659375000003,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":439.00034375,"end":439.21971875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":439.21971875,"end":439.28721875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":439.28721875,"end":439.54034375000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":439.54034375000003,"end":439.60784375000003,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":439.60784375000003,"end":439.69221875000005,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":439.69221875000005,"end":439.81034375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":439.81034375,"end":439.94534375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":439.94534375,"end":439.96221875000003,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":439.96221875000003,"end":441.54846875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":440.35034375000004,"end":453.27659375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":452.26409375000003,"end":456.12846875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":456.53346875000005,"end":497.64096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":483.11159375000005,"end":484.64721875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":497.86034375,"end":512.2040937500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":512.57534375,"end":513.5203437499999,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":514.0772187499999,"end":516.0009687500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":517.0303437499999,"end":518.59971875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":520.9115937500001,"end":521.3840937500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":528.21846875,"end":529.06221875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":529.28159375,"end":530.2097187500001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":530.41221875,"end":538.8328437499999,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":539.3897187499999,"end":540.67221875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":542.5959687500001,"end":544.1653437500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":544.48596875,"end":545.92034375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":545.9709687500001,"end":550.29096875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":547.8103437500001,"end":548.72159375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":551.52284375,"end":552.34971875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":554.1047187500001,"end":554.77971875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":555.6909687500001,"end":571.0303437499999,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":571.60409375,"end":592.9678437499999,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":593.18721875,"end":593.82846875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":595.38096875,"end":597.8615937500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":598.1315937500001,"end":598.46909375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":598.8403437500001,"end":600.6459687500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":601.0847187500001,"end":620.71034375,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":620.7947187500001,"end":635.45909375,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":635.6953437500001,"end":642.66471875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":642.8840937500001,"end":653.1272187500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":651.77721875,"end":652.09784375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":653.5490937500001,"end":655.9453437500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":655.9453437500001,"end":662.8134687500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":663.04971875,"end":670.8628437500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":671.18346875,"end":687.06284375,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":687.21471875,"end":703.1953437500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":703.7690937500001,"end":714.1472187500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":714.53534375,"end":724.8290937500001,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":724.94721875,"end":725.65596875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":725.0147187500002,"end":726.9553437500001,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":727.46159375,"end":728.59221875,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":729.11534375,"end":731.83221875,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":732.38909375,"end":733.60409375,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":733.67159375,"end":734.7178437500002,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":735.59534375,"end":738.0590937500001,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":738.3797187499999,"end":746.71596875,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":738.41346875,"end":739.54409375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":739.54409375,"end":739.57784375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":743.3915937500001,"end":743.4084687500001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":743.4084687500001,"end":748.97721875,"speaker_score":0.954},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":747.0534687500001,"end":748.5890937500001,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":748.5890937500001,"end":748.7240937500001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":748.7240937500001,"end":748.79159375,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":748.79159375,"end":748.80846875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":748.80846875,"end":748.8928437500001,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊次長人祥","start":748.8928437500001,"end":750.1415937500001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李總經理丁來","start":748.97721875,"end":749.3484687499999,"speaker_score":0.733},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"胡次長忠一","start":749.3484687499999,"end":749.8884687500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":749.8884687500001,"end":749.97284375,"speaker_score":0.954}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":1.19,"text":"有請農業部次長跟衛福部次長來 請衛福部次長 農業部何政次"},{"start":34.079,"end":47.298,"text":"委員好兩位次長好那我今天呢最主要的討論的議題是在對於美國輸入的這個馬鈴薯當中的檢疫條件的過程因為現在我們可以看到說因為事情爆發之後呢農業部跟"},{"start":50.001,"end":66.498,"text":"衛福部就做了很多的這樣子的一個修訂我覺得這是好事但是我們最重要是看到為什麼當初會有這樣一個結構第一個我們看到的是1月21號的時候就有一個修正案的預告它是要調整美國產的加工農業加工用的馬鈴薯的分流管理本來應該是要60天的預告期"},{"start":69.16,"end":89.057,"text":"現在只有14天那第二個2月6號正式公告之後呢他刪除了來發芽禁止輸入這個底線都在放寬那就是邊境放行讓這個有發芽症狀的馬鈴薯可能可以輸入那當然第三個我們看到是說呢這個是特別是專用到對加工業我們也很清楚"},{"start":89.477,"end":107.806,"text":"但是這個加工用當中呢是有些就直接到的是那個加工的設備工廠當中但是這個地方呢說如果都已經過了邊境這一關的時候他進入到工廠去了這部分檢疫的部分可以到工廠是嗎好那第二部分呢這裡面就是還包括的是第三第四個就是說"},{"start":108.926,"end":114.47,"text":"我們的要求就是或是美英或美方的要求說他在輸入到台灣的之前還必須要用發芽抑制劑來去清洗是做這樣的讓他可以不要再發芽等於說讓我們的民眾們在介於他會發芽的會有這個龍回檢的這樣子一個有毒性的這種傷害之下或者是說我們用一個發芽抑制劑他可能會對我們的"},{"start":133.624,"end":136.586,"text":"一個肝臟這些部分會有這個傷害尤其我們這個標準呢還比歐盟它現在有放寬了是到0.2的ppm可是現在呢我們是30ppm那這樣的一個差異性我就想問的是農業部跟衛福部"},{"start":152.156,"end":176.864,"text":"你們在這個當初的時候你們是採取什麼樣的立場或是你們在參加當初因為這個是根據這個理由上面很清楚他是要根據是要因應要這個我們台美的關稅協議的這個生效在這裡情況下想問一下當初我們的我們在談判的你們有商量我們談判的這個協商過程嗎還有說說你們在你們是什麼樣的情況是因應到這樣的台美是被告知的嗎先問這兩個問題"},{"start":181.604,"end":190.715,"text":"在農業部的部分我們如果是先時用的話所有的規定沒有變那如果是加工用的話我現在是問加工嗎"},{"start":192.116,"end":211.948,"text":"是 那加工用的話我們農業部的角色是三個第一個我們先看有沒有帶土壤帶土壤那個必須要推第二個他有沒有八種病蟲害第三個市長 你的問題我的問題是在於說你們在當初的在MOU 天秤跟ART的放行的時候你們當初有沒有去參與這樣子的一個談判的過程我沒有參與你們在農業部有沒有參與"},{"start":219.595,"end":244.534,"text":"農業部其實我們另外有一位次長因為他現在人出國我是代理他來備訓我不曉得他是不是有職業參與到這個衛福部呢 莊次長報告委員這個食安的議題的檢驗部分我們一直都沒有變從107年到現在所以驗了龍葵檢還有剛剛的那個液壓器液壓數的部分都是依照當時的規定都沒有改變以上"},{"start":245.356,"end":251.221,"text":"但是我的問題是在問說你們當初衛福部有去參與到我們在台美關稅談判當中嗎"},{"start":254.181,"end":282.533,"text":"我們沒有這個議題就巴亞的部分不是我們的對 沒有嘛就是沒有 結果全部都是因應到你們事實上是要被事後通知的所以才趕著要在1月21號的時候可能有些結果就沒有沒有 應該是說這整個這整個內容沒有這個檢驗的問題啦對 但是問題是因為這是農業部的問題農業部他把這樣子一個檢疫的條件把它放寬了是這個部分那這裡所造成的效果是我在想"},{"start":283.833,"end":302.279,"text":"農業部你們這邊應該說因為現在沒有人證明說你們有參加可是就我們現在談判那邊沒有看到這樣的一個人在裡面這就是顯示出來你們現在遇到這樣的問題的時候你們等於說是被事後告知是以我們的要關稅的降免為代價但是可是你們現在的樣式我在想說如果說"},{"start":303.419,"end":324.799,"text":"我們的這個事實沒有在現在4月份爆發出來是不是當然我也知道你剛才有說過現在的這個進口的要去加工的部分是7月才會進來但是如果是他們進口進來了直接後來在防疫上沒有知道而且我們根本就是不太理解的話呢到時候就是廠商呢這個進加工的"},{"start":325.66,"end":348.608,"text":"有問題的可能有問題的馬鈴薯就直接進入到加工廠去了然後就直接被製造出來讓民眾去使用了這樣子的一個狀況呢是不可能會出現的是很有可能會出現的所以這樣會說當初我們的農業部還有包括我們的衛福部遇到這個情況這樣的情況是不是根本就是沒有把我們人民的健康都代價"},{"start":351.003,"end":378.177,"text":"檢疫的條件沒有放寬這個要跟委員來做說明有有有檢疫沒有放寬啊檢疫的部分你們是已經允許有發芽症狀的馬鈴薯加工的進入啦怎麼會沒有不是他那個是本來是所有的加工也好 鮮食也好是違反三種一套標準在農業部分我們檢疫發現就馬上就退"},{"start":378.973,"end":398.171,"text":"我們現在是說你們這邊部分是在說加工的部分直接還到農業直接還到加工廠去好這個部分呢我看到你們的態度上面事實上沒辦法就是置置物就是不要再問到這裡因為我們現在看到不然的話你們現在為什麼這裡這兩天的時候農業部跟衛福部的官員一直出來在講說我們會真正"},{"start":400.393,"end":418.098,"text":"卓院長他也很清楚的說了,我們都會逐項的就是整櫃都會去看這個部分就是在做防疫防疫保養的動作嘛好,我就這樣子講,他說這部分喔我想要就是這個程序上面的一個過程流程我希望說農業部跟尤其特別是農業部要這個過程要跟他本席來做一個書面報告,可以嗎?"},{"start":420.96,"end":438.255,"text":"蘇貞報告可以交 但我還是跟委員報告一下發芽率我們最近這幾年檢查都像去年只有0.6所以其實目前我們是負責發芽的你發芽率很低是因為你加了抑菌劑啊抑菌劑下去啊"},{"start":440.977,"end":452.926,"text":"所以我跟你講我們就先講到這裡因為我還有其他部分要講但是我想用書面報告來呈現因為這裡面有看到的整個政府團隊裡面為了人民的健康的部分的把關事實上是不夠的沒有放寬啦 沒有放寬我們用書面報告給委員"},{"start":456.581,"end":460.524,"text":"你們這樣講是不夠正確我們現在就請的是農業部講討論的是農業部在南投民間鄉的焚化爐的用地的這個問題上面我們看到的是部長他在4月16號前幾天前他說了在民間鄉的這個焚化爐它這邊都是一個農業的特農地"},{"start":477.099,"end":495.886,"text":"那他就說呢他會到目前到16號為止他沒有受到南投縣政府的農地變更申請喔沒有喔沒有喔但是他是特定農業區喔那我們現在看到往下看了喔繼續往下看可是呢在這個農業特定區當中我們可以看到行政院在114年去年的3月28號呢就已經呢"},{"start":498.027,"end":500.188,"text":"我們繼續往下看財政部的次長請上台我們看到的是財政部的次長 請問次長能不能暫停一下時間"},{"start":528.26,"end":540.146,"text":"好 次長好我們看到複稅署在去年的3月20幾號就已經給了那我們看到的是另外一個問題是我當然要請到是這個審計部的部長陳部長請你上台我現在講的是另外一件事情在南投西的政府那我們現在就先讓部長上台"},{"start":555.842,"end":570.009,"text":"這個陳部長要跟你講就是南投縣政府他用了這個專款專用的環保基金來去買了這個國土地 國有的土地大概一萬一億元這個部分那可能有違法之嫌啦這邊要跟大家講的是"},{"start":571.67,"end":591.595,"text":"看到的是剛才農業部也說了 部長說了它是農地 農業專用地然後但是呢國產署這邊就已經給了移的地那這邊呢尤其在資金的上面呢在買的這個地因為特定的環保基金呢它事實上它並沒有用到市售可以去買地它在政策是在買地的部分呢確實有出現就是這邊要請教的是要請"},{"start":595.924,"end":620.141,"text":"陳部長您知道這件事情嗎知道那這部分您的看法是怎麼樣因為看起來有一些爭議啦其實能不能買地他有一個收支保管應用辦法他那個收支保管應用辦法裡面是可以買設備但是我們要去查他的立法說明能不能買土地因為"},{"start":622.343,"end":642.278,"text":"設備是一般在會計上土地是包括在裡面但是立法因為很多的立一個法都會有立法說明我們會整個了解以後給委員一個報告好可以那另外的農業部次長你們的部長已經說了是要農地農用這部分你們的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":643.298,"end":670.672,"text":"對 因為特定農業區的話我們希望在台灣有限的這個土地要作為農用因為這個是非常好的一塊這個特農區那你們就是會堅持這樣的情況嗎我們會 但是因為他文還沒有送過來我們不曉得他們當時他們會做怎麼樣的一個結論如果送過來的話我們會站在基於保護農地的立場我們會希望這一塊地應該是用在農用上"},{"start":671.252,"end":686.449,"text":"OK 好 謝謝農業市長有這個意見那另外只是請陳部長留下來 其他的就請回最後一個部分呢 就想要簡單的去回應一下就是說我們看到的是 想要針對的是 沒人盡數的做結論好 就是 我也許就講"},{"start":687.35,"end":710.107,"text":"我們看到的是在審計部在一百三年決算報告當中提出了六項的這樣子一個整體上面對總體所得分配的這個內容但是在因為我們看到那個效果裡面尤其在財政就是在這個薪資這部分它事實上九七成還是低於這個員工的平均數的情形那總之總共我本來有很多部分要去講包括在學校的部分等等的那最後我就想是說想要問的是"},{"start":713.228,"end":731.532,"text":"針對這一個你們所做出來的決算報告對行政院各部會裡面的民生措施會達目標或者是財務的維持上面你們審計部做了什麼有沒有給他們做一個具體的一個實成建議有沒有更強力的苛責行動因為貧富不均看來越來越嚴重是國際的風險我們這一個部分會美聯查"},{"start":735.629,"end":739.474,"text":"查到有一定的成效才會結束所以114我們還會繼續查包括改善測試"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:53:32.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:53:32.670000+08:00","text":"有請農業部次長跟衛福部次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T10:53:32.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:53:33.170000+08:00","text":"請衛福部次長、農業部胡政次。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:53:33.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T10:54:06.079000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:54:06.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:54:06.299000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:54:07.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:54:07.561000+08:00","text":"兩位次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:54:08.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:54:28.768000+08:00","text":"我今天最主要想討論的議題是美國輸入馬鈴薯的檢疫條件及過程，因為現在我們也看到事情爆發之後，農業部跟衛福部做了很多的修訂，我覺得這是好事，但最重要的是為什麼當初會有這樣一個結構？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:54:28.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:54:42.041000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們看到1月21號就有一個修正案的預告，要調整美國產加工用馬鈴薯的分流管理，本來應該是要60天的預告期，現在只有14天。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:54:42.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:54:55.732000+08:00","text":"第二個，2月6號正式公告之後，刪除「發芽禁止輸入」的底線，都在放寬，即邊境放行讓有發芽徵狀的加工馬鈴薯輸入。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:54:56.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:55:16.064000+08:00","text":"第三個，我們看到這個特別是專門加工用，我們也清楚，但是加工用有些就直接到有加工設備的工廠當中，但是如果都已經過了邊境這一關進入工廠去，檢疫的部分可以到工廠執行嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:55:19.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:55:24.509000+08:00","text":"第四個，我們的要求或是因應美方的要求，它輸入到臺灣之前還必須要用發芽抑制劑來清洗，做這樣的處理讓馬鈴薯可以不要再發芽。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:55:24.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:55:48.266000+08:00","text":"等於讓我們的民眾介於擔心發芽會有毒性龍葵鹼的傷害，或者是使用發芽抑制劑可能會對我們肝臟會有傷害的情況下，尤其我們標準還比歐盟……現在歐盟有放寬了到0.2 ppm，可是現在我們是30 ppm，有這樣的差異性。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:55:48.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:06.777000+08:00","text":"我想問的是，農業部跟衛福部，你們當初是採取什麼樣的立場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:08.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:23.843000+08:00","text":"因為這個理由很清楚，是因應臺美關稅協議生效，想問一下，當初你們有加入談判協商的過程嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:23.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:28.844000+08:00","text":"還有你們是在什麼樣的情況下，是因應到臺美……是被告知的嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:28.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:28.864000+08:00","text":"先問這兩個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:33.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:41.854000+08:00","text":"在農業部的部分，如果是鮮食用的話，所有的規定沒有變；如果是加工用的話……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:41.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:42.695000+08:00","text":"我現在就是問加工啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一：是，加工用的話，我們農業部的角色是三個","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:47.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:56:55.903000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們先看有沒有帶土壤，帶土壤的必須要退運；第二個，有沒有八種病蟲害；第三個……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:56:56.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:03.367000+08:00","text":"次長，我的問題是，當初MOU簽訂跟ART放行的時候，你們有沒有去參與這樣的談判過程？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:03.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:03.507000+08:00","text":"我沒有參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:03.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:03.948000+08:00","text":"你們農業部有沒有參與？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:12.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:20.322000+08:00","text":"我們另外有一位次長，因為他現在出國，我是代理他來備詢，我不曉得他是不是有直接參與到這個部分。好。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:20.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:20.602000+08:00","text":"那衛福部呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:21.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:22.163000+08:00","text":"莊次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:22.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:36.514000+08:00","text":"報告委員，有關食安議題的檢驗部分，我們從107年到現在一直都沒有變，所以驗龍葵鹼還有抑芽劑、抑芽素的部分，都是依照當時的規定，都沒有改變。以上。","quality":0.77},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:37.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:43.221000+08:00","text":"但是我的問題是當初衛福部有參與到我們的臺美關稅談判嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:46.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:48.782000+08:00","text":"我們沒有這個議題，發芽的部分不是我們的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:49.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:57:58.086000+08:00","text":"對，沒有嘛，就是沒有，結果全部都是因應到……你們事實上是被事後通知的，所以才趕著要在1月21號可能有些結果之後……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T10:57:58.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:58:04.088000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，應該是說，這整個內容沒有檢驗的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:58:04.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:58:21.935000+08:00","text":"對，因為這是農業部的部分，農業部把這樣的檢疫條件放寬了，是這個部分，這裡所造成的效果是，農業部你們這邊……因為現在沒有人能證明你們沒有參加，可是就現在的談判代表看起來，沒有看到這樣的人在裡面。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:58:22.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:10.304000+08:00","text":"這就顯示出，現在遇到這樣的問題，你們等於是被事後告知，這是作為關稅降、免的代價，可是我在想說，如果這個訊息沒有在4月份爆發出來，是不是……當然我也知道，你剛才有說過，現在這個進口要加工的部分是7月才會進來，但是如果進口進來了，後來在防疫上面沒有我知道，而且如果我們根本就不太理解的話，到時候可能有問題的馬鈴薯就直接進入到加工廠去了，然後就直接被製造出來讓民眾去食用，這樣的狀況不是不可能不會出現，是很有可能會出現的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:11.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:20.608000+08:00","text":"所以我要問的是，當初農業部跟衛福部遇到這樣條件的情況，是不是根本就把我們人民的健康作為代價？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:23.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:27.205000+08:00","text":"檢疫的條件沒有放寬，這個要跟委員來做說明；第二個……","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:28.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:29.526000+08:00","text":"有、有、有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:29.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:30.127000+08:00","text":"檢疫沒有放寬啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:31.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:37.510000+08:00","text":"檢疫的部分，你們是已經允許有發芽徵狀的加工馬鈴薯進入啦，怎麼會沒有？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:38.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:50.157000+08:00","text":"不是，本來所有的加工也好、鮮食也好，是違反三種、一套標準，在農業的部分，我們檢疫如果有發現問題，馬上就退。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:51.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T10:59:56.198000+08:00","text":"你們是說加工的部分，而且直接到加工廠。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T10:59:58.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:09.971000+08:00","text":"但你們的態度就是支支吾吾，沒辦法……為什麼這兩天農業部跟衛福部的官員一直出來講話？","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:12.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:17.114000+08:00","text":"甚至卓院長也清楚說會逐項、整櫃去看？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:17.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:18.175000+08:00","text":"其實這就是在亡羊補牢！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:20.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:30.098000+08:00","text":"就這件事的流程、過程，我希望農業部能給本席一份書面報告，可以嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:32.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:45.171000+08:00","text":"可以給委員書面報告，但我還是要跟委員報告，以我們最近這幾年檢查的結果來說，像去年的發芽率只有0.6%，目前我們是負責……","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:45.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:46.312000+08:00","text":"為什麼會發芽率很低？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:46.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:50.035000+08:00","text":"因為加了抑菌劑下去！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:50.035000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:54.098000+08:00","text":"這個很久……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:54.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:00:57.460000+08:00","text":"這部分就先講到這裡，因為我還有其他問題要問，所以你們就以書面報告來呈現。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:00:58.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:03.304000+08:00","text":"我看到整個政府團隊在為人民健康把關上事實上做得並不夠，我們就……","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:04.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:04.745000+08:00","text":"沒有放寬、沒有放寬！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:04.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:04.926000+08:00","text":"我們提供書面報告給委員。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:08.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:08.941000+08:00","text":"你這樣講並不夠正確。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:09.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:10.523000+08:00","text":"接下來的問題還是跟農業部有關，也就是南投名間鄉焚化爐用地問題。","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:10.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:34.801000+08:00","text":"部長在4月16號，也就是幾天前說，名間鄉焚化爐位於特農地，但到16號為止，並沒有收到南投縣政府的農地變更申請？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:35.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:36.062000+08:00","text":"對，沒有，還沒有送來。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:37.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:38.042000+08:00","text":"他說這塊地是特定農業區。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:38.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:50.887000+08:00","text":"我們再繼續往下看，在特定農業區中，行政院在去年（114年）3月28號已經撥用特農地土地給南投縣政府，現在請財政部次長上臺。","quality":0.592},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:51.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:51.508000+08:00","text":"請阮次長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:01:51.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:01:52.168000+08:00","text":"時間能不能暫停一下？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:02:20.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:02:20.780000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T11:02:20.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:02:23.882000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:02:23.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:02:32.126000+08:00","text":"賦稅署的資料在去年3月二十幾號就已經給了，現在我有另外一個問題要問，請審計部審計長上臺。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:02:32.126000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:02:49.023000+08:00","text":"請審計長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:02:49.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:01.029000+08:00","text":"審計長，南投縣政府以專款專用的環保基金1億元購買了這塊國有土地，我認為這可能有違法之嫌。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:01.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:20.134000+08:00","text":"我要跟大家講的是，農業部剛才說這是農業專用地，但其實國產署已經把地撥給縣府，但南投縣政府又買了地，而且是以特定的環保基金購買，可是環保基金事實上並不能用來買地。","quality":0.541},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:21.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:22.675000+08:00","text":"所以政策沒問題，但買地這件事有問題。","quality":0.312},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:28.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:29.606000+08:00","text":"審計長知道這件事嗎？知道。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:31.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:34.609000+08:00","text":"你對這件事的看法為何？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:34.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:35.430000+08:00","text":"看起來是有些爭議。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:37.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:51.301000+08:00","text":"其實能否買地，可看收支保管應用辦法，而該收支保管應用辦法提到可以買設備，不過還是要查立法說明來看能不能買土地。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:51.301000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:03:59.307000+08:00","text":"以一般會計而言，土地包含在設備裡面。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T11:03:59.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:07.252000+08:00","text":"不過立法時都會有立法說明，所以我們在整個瞭解以後會再給委員一份報告。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:07.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:08.253000+08:00","text":"好，可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:09.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:14.077000+08:00","text":"農業部次長，你們部長說要農地農用，這部分你們的看法為何？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:15.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:24.703000+08:00","text":"因為是特定農業區，且臺灣土地有限，所以我們希望要作為農用，畢竟那是非常好的一塊特農區。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:25.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:28.385000+08:00","text":"你們堅持？會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:28.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:42.652000+08:00","text":"但因為文還沒有送過來，我們不曉得他們會做怎麼樣的結論；如果送過來的話，站在保護農地的立場，希望這一塊地能用在農用上。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:43.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:44.594000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝農業部次長的說明。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:47.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:48.878000+08:00","text":"請審計長留下來，其他請回。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:49.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:54.545000+08:00","text":"最後，我想針對的是……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:04:56.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:04:57.308000+08:00","text":"請劉委員儘速做結論。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:00.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:14.841000+08:00","text":"審計部在113年決算報告當中對整體所得分配提出六項意見，不過就薪資這項來說，事實上有七成仍低於平均數。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:17.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:34.050000+08:00","text":"我本來想講的很多，包括學校等等，但最後我請問，審計部的決算報告指出，行政院各部會民生措施有未達目標或財務違失的問題，審計部做了什麼？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:34.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:36.511000+08:00","text":"有沒有給予具體的時程建議？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:37.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:39.531000+08:00","text":"或更強力的課責行動？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:39.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:49.812000+08:00","text":"貧富不均問題看來會越來越嚴重，這是一種國際風險，所以對這部分我們會每年都查，且查到一定成效後才會結束。","quality":0.638},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:50.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:51.454000+08:00","text":"所以114年的決算還會繼續查，包括改善措施在內。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:51.954000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:54.811143+08:00","text":"再給我書面報告，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:55.111143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:57.111143+08:00","text":"謝謝劉書彬委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:05:57.411143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:05:59.982571+08:00","text":"接下來請賴惠員委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:06:00.282571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:06:04.282571+08:00","text":"賴惠員委員質詢完之後休息5分鐘。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}