{"error":false,"id":["168809"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168809,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168809","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T11:33:13+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T11:37:52+08:00","影片長度":"00:04:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be54421580b8291d383b2347e947452b276263a9438ec9e4ea00b31e0ef36d357a05ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"11:33:13 - 11:37:52","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金。(詢答)\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.04221875,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.94909375,"end":12.349718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":18.91409375,"end":19.42034375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":19.58909375,"end":20.16284375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":20.43284375,"end":81.19971875,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":82.21221875,"end":95.74596875,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":96.01596875,"end":115.94534375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":116.38409375,"end":118.51034375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":118.99971875000001,"end":120.53534375000001,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":120.92346875000001,"end":124.38284375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":125.46284375,"end":128.97284375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":128.97284375,"end":174.60284375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":174.60284375,"end":174.61971875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":175.15971875000002,"end":190.49909375000001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":190.93784375,"end":209.48346875000001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":208.94346875000002,"end":209.23034375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":209.95596875,"end":211.96409375000002,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":211.96409375000002,"end":221.53221875000003,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":217.22909375,"end":217.38096875000002,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":222.20721875,"end":223.03409375,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":222.32534375,"end":222.84846875000002,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":223.03409375,"end":223.05096875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":223.13534375,"end":229.96971875000003,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":229.96971875000003,"end":238.81221875000003,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":239.18346875,"end":246.65909375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":243.87471875000003,"end":243.92534375000002,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":246.97971875000002,"end":257.79659375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":252.80159375000002,"end":253.15596875000003,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"盧委員縣一","start":257.79659375,"end":258.20159375000003,"speaker_score":0.883},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":258.60659375,"end":260.74971875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":260.83409375,"end":273.69284375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":273.77721875000003,"end":275.29596875000004,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.06346875,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":278.97471875,"end":279.17721875,"speaker_score":0.937}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.23,"end":10.316,"text":"請盧憲一委員質詢謝謝主席有請次長有請經濟部的次長"},{"start":18.956,"end":35.115,"text":"我也好 智昌好就剛才針對土石的採集 剛才問也有說明當然我知道所有原住民我大概都非常的關心這個議題我們是來自好山好水的地方常常看到水用不到水 看到土用不到土"},{"start":35.595,"end":45.027,"text":"那昨天我延續昨天的問題就是希望 因為昨天沒有得到確確的答案希望苗栗 南投 屏東 台東 花蓮 宜蘭這幾個減水沒有到達90%以上的這個縣市能夠增設我們的工作人員 比如說"},{"start":52.857,"end":80.81,"text":"因為他有時候要申請門牌有的時候要申請一些同意書可能都要勞駕我們地區的鄉公所來幫忙自來水的業務可是在這個廣大的地區有時候一個鄉的範圍比綻花縣還大所以我想說希望在自來水的這個業務上面能夠多多用心接下來進到今天主題我們針對第三條第六款第七款第八款我們都有修正理由"},{"start":82.287,"end":110.608,"text":"最針對海域的部分希望是對傳統文化記憶跟自用來使用就是非營利行為第二個就是第七款的部分就是免申請就是說如果是用在傳統文化部落的建築比如說機關、學校、教會、公共設施的話應該是免申請然後它的原則就是希望善用原住民族保留的資源因為是根據我們現在原住民族基本法第十九條的第三款"},{"start":111.629,"end":123.927,"text":"及時下來做修正最後呢就是希望他的數量部分我可以考次長我們莫拉克崩災我們高屏溪那個流域的那個土方大概多少嗎"},{"start":125.526,"end":141.069,"text":"那個將近差不多超過2億對我剛剛看的資料是2.6億立方其實我們就看到這樣子因為我們就在那個地區看到那麼多砂石可是像我們原住民要使用任何一塊石頭可能我們看那個"},{"start":142.23,"end":170.638,"text":"動輒政法所以我們今天修法的目的其實就是希望說政府能夠重視我們在地部落在地居民他其實是可以部分利用所以這個數量的部分是常常讓人恐懼就是因為我不知道今天我是載了一卡車還是一個多少公噸的一個土方會違法或怎麼樣所以我們希望能夠公告他的數量然後是使用我們救災啊或者是房屋修葬聚會所降的一個"},{"start":171.338,"end":189.909,"text":"或者是修正道路做一個優先的採集是委員所提到的這個部分我們在今天參加會議的裡面我們也看到其他包括委員有修正的這個動議提出來那我們希望說未來在土石的採取的部分只要是不牡蠣"},{"start":191.01,"end":208.485,"text":"只要不是惡意然後去迫害國土的部分特別是在原住民地區如何踐行原住民基本法我們可以透過這次的修法裡面來大家共同討論是不是給我們一點時間我們來跟各個提案的委員來進行相關的這個溝通"},{"start":210.066,"end":238.516,"text":"最後一個數據參考就是這是馬太安的部分就是馬太安的那個殺死量也超過6600萬可是到目前為止清出的那個數量也還不到100萬公噸超過了嗎清出來到離開河川的差不多超過2000萬超過2000萬那我的意思是說其實這些都對部落來講其實都是很可惜如果說可以用在地方重建的話我是不是有一個具有數字可以讓大家參考"},{"start":239.406,"end":257.486,"text":"是 我們這個會請水利署在未來土石的去化甚至在未來馬灘重建的部分因為這涉及到我們包括原住民地區的民眾的一些意見多多跟當地來交流最後跟委員說到委員所關心的"},{"start":258.667,"end":272.416,"text":"不管是我們偏鄉或是山區所謂的簡易自來水的部分剛剛委員有提到是不是可以透過輔導團的方式來增進我們地方政府執行的量能這個我們也會請水利署依照這個方向來執行好 謝謝次長好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:14.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:15.010000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:22.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:22.535000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:22.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:23.316000+08:00","text":"請經濟部賴次長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:32.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:32.176000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:32.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:32.997000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:35.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:42.708000+08:00","text":"針對土石的採取，剛才伍委員也有說明，當然我知道所有原住民立委大概都非常關心這個議題。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:42.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:48.095000+08:00","text":"我們是來自好山好水的地方，但是常常看到水，用不到水；看到土，用不到土。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:49.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:33:52.841000+08:00","text":"我延續昨天的問題，因為昨天沒有得到確切的答案。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:33:53.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:34:25.346000+08:00","text":"希望苗栗、南投、屏東、臺東、花蓮、宜蘭這幾個簡水普及率沒有到達90%以上的縣市，能夠增設工作人員，比如說，他要申請門牌，有時候要申請一些同意書，可能都要勞駕地區的鄉公所來幫忙自來水的業務，可是在這麼廣大的地區，有時候一個鄉的範圍比彰化縣還大，所以我希望在自來水業務上面能夠多多用心。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:34:26.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:34:33.790000+08:00","text":"接下來進到今天的主題，我們針對第三條第六款、第七款及第八款都有修正理由。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:34:35.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:34:43.573000+08:00","text":"針對海域的部分，希望是以傳統文化、祭儀跟自用為限來使用，就是非營利行為。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:34:43.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:34:54.781000+08:00","text":"第二個第七款的部分，就是免申請，如果是用在傳統文化部落的建築，比如說機關、學校、教會、公共設施的話，應該是免申請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:34:54.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:35:06.151000+08:00","text":"然後原則是希望善用原住民族保留地這樣的一個資源，因為是根據原住民族基本法第十九條第三款來做修正。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:35:06.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:35:16.907000+08:00","text":"最後就是有關數量的部分我考一下次長，莫拉克風災所造成高屏溪流域的土方量，大概多少？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:35:19.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:35:21.811000+08:00","text":"差不多超過2億。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:35:21.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:35:35.230000+08:00","text":"我剛剛看的資料是2.6億立方公尺，其實我們就看到這樣的情形，因為我們住在那個地區，看到那麼多砂石，可是像我們原住民要使用任何一塊石頭，可能動輒重罰。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:35:36.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:36:08.361000+08:00","text":"所以我們今天修法的目的是希望政府能夠重視在地部落、在地居民，它其實是可以部分利用，但是這個數量部分常常讓人恐懼，因為我不知道今天我載了一卡車或是多少公噸的土方會違法或怎麼樣，所以我們希望能夠公告數量，並使用於救災、房屋修繕、聚會所或者是修繕道路做優先的採取。是。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:36:09.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:36:41.465000+08:00","text":"委員提到的這個部分，在今天參加的會議裡面，我們也看到其他委員包括委員您也有提出修正動議，我們希望未來在土石採取的部分，只要是不牟利、不是惡意、不去迫害國土，特別是在原住民地區如何踐行原住民基本法，我們可以透過這次的修法，大家來共同討論，是不是給我們一點時間，我們來跟各個提案委員進行相關的溝通？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:36:43.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:36:56.511000+08:00","text":"做一個數據參考，有關馬太鞍的部分，馬太鞍的砂石量也超過6,600萬，可是到目前為止，清出的數量也還不到100萬公噸，有超過了嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:36:56.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:01.132000+08:00","text":"清出來且離開河川的，差不多超過2,000萬。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:01.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:02.413000+08:00","text":"超過2,000萬。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:02.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:11.496000+08:00","text":"我的意思是其實這些對部落來講都很可惜，如果可以用在地方重建的話，是不是有一個具體數字可以讓大家參考？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:12.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:27.342000+08:00","text":"是，這個會請水利署在未來土石的去化，甚至在未來馬太鞍重建的部分，因為這涉及到原住民地區民眾的一些意見，要多多跟當地來交流。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:27.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:42.054000+08:00","text":"最後跟委員說，委員所關心的，不管是我們偏鄉或是山區在所謂簡易自來水部分，剛剛委員提到是不是可以透過輔導團的方式，來增進我們地方政府的執行量能？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:42.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:45.276000+08:00","text":"這部分我們也會請水利署依照這個方向來執行。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:45.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:45.416000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:45.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:47.916000+08:00","text":"謝謝盧縣一委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:48.216000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:37:55.644571+08:00","text":"一、登記發言的委員，除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:37:55.944571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:38:07.944571+08:00","text":"二、書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於1週內以書面答復，並副知本會，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:38:08.244571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:38:21.673143+08:00","text":"三、各委員針對預算案如有相關提案，請於5月4日星期一下午5點前送經濟委員會辦公室，以利後續彙整，逾時不再收案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:38:21.973143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:38:48.258857+08:00","text":"有關土石採取法部分條文修正草案審查一事，因經濟部上午承諾2週後將提出院版，為考量多方意見，修法更周延，不得不延後，請行政院2週後一定要送出院版，讓經濟委員會併入審查，如果沒有提送，就是經濟部和行政院的責任。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:38:48.558857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:39:32.273143+08:00","text":"此外，提醒經濟部、農業部，注意法務部今天提出來的書面意見，像美濃大峽谷這樣子的問題，涉及的不僅是土石採取法的裁罰問題，按照盜採盜填的區域，還會涉及到水土保持法、山坡地保育利用條例，以及農業發展條例的管制、裁罰跟整復的規定，所以必須讓各法的裁罰能夠衡平，必須配套修正水土保持法、山坡地保育條例和農發條例，也請行政院2週期限到，要一併提出對案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:39:32.573143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:39:41.716000+08:00","text":"原定下午要進行的土石採取法部分條文修正草案，另外定期再繼續進行審查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:39:42.016000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:39:49.444571+08:00","text":"本日議程討論事項第一案跟第二案的詢答結束，現在我們散會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:39:49.744571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:39:50.887429+08:00","text":"散會（11時40分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}