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問你發芽的因為發芽的部分有可能它會流入市面會去種會種毒嗎不是種毒 是會去種啦 種在田裡面種 我說吃了會怎麼樣不是 吃的是食藥署他們所主管的所以你不管吃的問題對對對 我們是負責檢驗的那就請莊市長可以回答"},{"start":102.481,"end":116.47,"text":"報告委員就是有關這個如果一旦這個農業部有看有發芽的部分他們會剔除啦但是我們會針對那個他們那一批沒有發芽我們會去驗如果驗出農苦鹽超過200ppm我們整批都會退印"},{"start":117.663,"end":121.987,"text":"吃了這些發芽的馬鈴薯有什麼後遺症?會不會中毒?我們不建議發芽就不建議吃吃了會有什麼後遺症?會有什麼後果?可以跟大家分享一下嗎?"},{"start":143.928,"end":165.94,"text":"如果吃了會造成身體什麼樣的不適嘛因為你介意不要吃就可能看含量多少啦會有不等的症狀如果說那個含量發芽的他可能會就是那個那個節儉的那個濃度會比較高嘛或者那個未成熟的吃了就會造成人體的不適嘛那會有什麼症狀"},{"start":167.952,"end":193.046,"text":"可能會有嘔吐、神心性的一些症狀就是會有噁心、嘔吐、腹痛、腹瀉輕微中毒者一至二天內他會自動痊癒重者則因劇烈的嘔吐導致脫水、電解質、不平衡及血壓下降更嚴重者會造成昏迷、抽搐、呼吸重疏、麻痺導致死亡"},{"start":195.147,"end":210.414,"text":"所以我看到我搜尋了一下我們全國各縣市政府的衛生局啊都在呼籲說請勿食用發芽的馬鈴薯啊所以衛福部那你的意見呢"},{"start":211.499,"end":227.583,"text":"我們也是呼籲民眾如果看到芭芽就不要吃吃的就是很可能造成我們身體健康的危害所以衛福部的立場是跟全國各縣市的衛生局是一樣的有做這方面的宣導那我再請教農業部"},{"start":235.558,"end":262.296,"text":"胡市長 是那你在今年的2月6號你就公告訂定對於現在美國產加工用的馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件做出調整是請問為什麼做出調整調整就是把本來進口的不管是先時或者是加工如果一旦查到的話就退運那後來2月6號調整是把先時的跟加工的把它分開"},{"start":263.462,"end":275.535,"text":"用途不同因為先時進來先時跟加工但是你現在是針對加工的部分有沒有你就是讓他不是像這個我們剛才講的發血有發癌的就全部不得輸入你現在是讓他輸入"},{"start":276.789,"end":299.536,"text":"然後再去做篩檢不是我們有三道把關第一個就是我們如果檢疫的時候發現有發芽的部分我們就會跟這個如果他發芽的太長了或者是比例太高了比如說達到兩三成我們也會要求他退運或銷毀那如果很少因為過去這幾年來平均"},{"start":300.376,"end":328.453,"text":"查驗到發芽是只有0.6如果我們發現了以後我們會要求這些進口人他要提出一個改善計畫其實市長我想問你就是說你新的法規跟舊的法規為什麼要做這種調整你原本規定就是說只要超過5毫米啊發芽超過5毫米就不得輸入嘛是那你現在為什麼再去做不一樣的改變現在是放寬嘛不是 用途不同啦"},{"start":329.994,"end":356.069,"text":"他說他這個發芽的長度是多少是你再去查 請加工廠來查驗是不是這樣不是 我們查驗的不是加工廠查驗是他如果要進來的話因為我們有做海關查驗喔不是你查驗 不是我們有檢疫人員在海關就檢查到了如果有的話而且情況不是很嚴重那這樣的情況我們會問這些進口的人那你是抽檢還是每一顆都查"},{"start":356.969,"end":357.309,"text":"一個貨櫃有幾顆馬鈴薯?一個貨櫃25公噸"},{"start":387.75,"end":411.405,"text":"除非說有懷疑它懷疑說這個有黑色斑點我們把它送到我們的實驗感染場所我們現在的整個我們就是對馬鈴薯的輸入我查到的資料除進口的冷凍馬鈴薯外馬鈴薯種屬除外生鮮或冷藏的主要的輸入國是美國約佔85%還有澳大利亞約佔15%"},{"start":415.908,"end":429.779,"text":"那我請問你,你這次是針對美國的加工再做一個調整那澳大利亞進口的部分呢?照原來的方式就排除啦?按照舊法規?他們如果只有針對美國因為那個是美國產加工馬鈴薯的輸入檢疫條件"},{"start":436.124,"end":462.01,"text":"那澳國的呢 澳洲的呢澳洲他就是照目前他沒有跟我們談那你為什麼要這樣子去做區別呢美國跟那個澳大利亞為什麼要做區別因為美國給你們施壓是不是不是 這個是本來我們就不斷的兩國之間的諮商這個是一直都在做的所以我說其實我們對美國產加公用馬鈴薯輸入嫌疑條件二月份做這樣的公告"},{"start":463.01,"end":482.24,"text":"其實放寬這個條件就是針對美國這個地區進口的馬鈴薯來做變更調整嘛這整個談判我們就覺得是非常不公平啦是在國際上啊其實也都只有針對加工啦針對加工沒有相值加工那澳大利亞的你為什麼不把他歸類進去因為事實上我們要供"},{"start":484.542,"end":505.024,"text":"我們在民國94年的時候那時候就一致性跟每一個國家那後來陸陸續續有國家之間的相互之商107年的規定跟現在你2月份的公告只針對美國的加工的馬鈴薯做出新的一個公告其他國家你就說剛才跟我講還是用舊的法規"},{"start":505.905,"end":533.556,"text":"所以你為什麼要為美國良心地做一個新的輸入檢疫條件因為其他的國家沒有提出因為事實上我們要公告之前所以我們就放寬美國的馬鈴薯不是這樣子啦不是這樣子因為國際之間的貿易就是這樣的談判其實我剛才我想剛才這個衛生部莊市長講得很清楚發芽的馬鈴薯確實不適合來食用啦不管你是加工後的也是不能吃啊"},{"start":534.117,"end":540.695,"text":"吃的就是為他們國人的健康所以在法官上我們真的是要更加的慎重"},{"start":542.219,"end":563.158,"text":"如果經濟部做這樣的一個開放我想真的對國內的健康其實2月6號公告之前我們在國內已經有公告讓我們的公共政策討論我們有公開14天那在WTO我們也提出公告給他們剛才我們也很多委員關心說你未來對加工廠的選別監管"},{"start":568.863,"end":596.4,"text":"大家很關心啦 如果這些加工廠 他們如何去去這個 去檢測出這些發芽的馬鈴薯 是不適宜的所以你未來加工廠的選別監管你將會如何進行在加工廠裡面啦 我們會會同衛福部在加工 事實上啦 那個加工廠指定的地點其實我們是準用那個保稅區 它所有的監"},{"start":597.641,"end":611.273,"text":"他的標準就是你車子就是貨運車要出來的時候要先貼封條要封尖然後呢GPS要那個車子的能量足夠嗎這個保稅區裡面所有都必須要設因為過去是沒有嘛現在就加入這樣一個規定嘛所以你"},{"start":618.859,"end":641.833,"text":"一定是要更需要更多的人力嘛所以你檢驗人力足夠嗎你照過去過去就沒有這個規定嘛對但是比例不大啦那個會就是我們所抽到的那個太低了0.6而已所以會增加人力沒有錯0.6就很危險了現在你講0.6或許進來的不止0.6"},{"start":643.394,"end":670.523,"text":"這有一個黑素存在啦市長你們不要太有信心啦不是在美國他要進來的時候他們美國國內他自己就要做檢驗了我在書面檢查我剛都看了你們在書面檢疫證明他們提出來你們就同意他進來了最近我們還要檢查啊你才去送到加工廠去做檢測嘛不是不是海關就先檢查啦所以美國進來完全是書面的檢測而已嘛有美國當方面說我這個是沒問題的我這個是沒有發芽的"},{"start":673.369,"end":675.23,"text":"那你們未來到底是採取每批都檢驗還是抽樣的檢驗"},{"start":687.882,"end":707.695,"text":"這個問題很重要在邊境的話當然是抽樣那個是在加工廠裡面加工廠裡面我們是逐批這個比如說這個申請人他有這一批裡面有三個貨櫃逐批 逐櫃 逐顆在加工廠裡面我們全部逐顆 每一顆都會檢查對要落實啦謝謝委員的關心我們很重視我們非常重視 謝謝"},{"start":717.927,"end":718.15,"text":"零四"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:48:47.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:48:47.970000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請農業部胡次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:48:48.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:48:48.370000+08:00","text":"請胡次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:48:48.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:48:48.490000+08:00","text":"還有衛福部莊次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T11:48:48.490000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:48:57.585667+08:00","text":"衛福部莊次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:48:57.585667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:06.681333+08:00","text":"兩位次長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:06.681333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:15.777000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:15.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:16.137000+08:00","text":"我先請教胡次長，請問我們食用馬鈴薯輸入的檢疫條件，農業部在107年的相關規定是怎麼樣？","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:16.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:16.777000+08:00","text":"對於這些發芽的馬鈴薯，是不是可以輸入？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:35.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:43.169000+08:00","text":"在輸入部分，農業部是做三項檢疫的工作，第一個，如果帶土的話，那個絕對不可以……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:43.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:44.910000+08:00","text":"時間的關係，我問你107年的規定是怎麼樣？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:45.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:54.297000+08:00","text":"就是這三項我們檢疫的部分，帶土的或者是有八種病蟲害的，還有發芽超過0.5公分，這三項是我們檢疫的……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:54.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:49:57.299000+08:00","text":"5毫米以上的芽體，就不得輸入嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:49:57.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:00.241000+08:00","text":"對，這個要全部退運或者是銷毀。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:00.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:01.962000+08:00","text":"好，次長，我請問你，當時為什麼要這樣規定？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:05.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:07.845000+08:00","text":"因為帶土的話……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:07.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:09.686000+08:00","text":"我現在不是問你帶土的，我問你的是發芽的。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:09.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:15.609000+08:00","text":"發芽部分，因為發芽的部分有可能會流入市面、會去種。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:15.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:16.270000+08:00","text":"會中毒嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:16.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:18.611000+08:00","text":"不是中毒，是會去種、種在田裡面。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:19.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:20.512000+08:00","text":"我說如果吃了會怎麼樣？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:20.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:22.633000+08:00","text":"不是，吃的是食藥署所主管的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:23.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:24.234000+08:00","text":"所以你不管吃的問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:24.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:24.474000+08:00","text":"對，我們是負責檢驗的部分。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:24.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:25.194000+08:00","text":"那就請莊次長回答。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:29.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:43.270000+08:00","text":"報告委員，農業部就一旦開始發芽的部分，他們會剔除，但是我們會針對，它們那一批沒有發芽……我們會去驗，如果驗出龍葵鹼超過200 ppm，我們整批都會退運，這個我們107年都是這樣。","quality":0.736},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:44.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:45.444000+08:00","text":"你是答非所問，我現在是問你，吃了這些發芽的馬鈴薯可能有什麼後遺症？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:45.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:45.704000+08:00","text":"會不會中毒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:45.704000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:46.704000+08:00","text":"你從醫學的角度可以……告訴……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:45.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:46.265000+08:00","text":"我們就不建議，發芽的就不建議吃。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:46.265000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:47.265000+08:00","text":"不建議吃嘛！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:50:46.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:50:48.987000+08:00","text":"吃了會有什麼後遺症、會有什麼後果，可以跟大家分享一下嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:10.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:15.130000+08:00","text":"如果吃了，會造成身體什麼樣的不適嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:15.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:16.531000+08:00","text":"因為你建議不要吃。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:16.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:20.873000+08:00","text":"這可能看含量多少，會有不等的症狀。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:20.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:27.177000+08:00","text":"如果說那個含量，因為發芽的可能茄鹼濃度會比較高嘛！是。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:27.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:31.399000+08:00","text":"或者未成熟的吃了就會造成人體不適。是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:32.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:32.940000+08:00","text":"那會有什麼症狀？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:34.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:39.755000+08:00","text":"可能會有嘔吐、神經性的一些症狀。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:39.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:43.817000+08:00","text":"就是會有噁心、嘔吐、腹痛、腹瀉嘛！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:43.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:51:57.584000+08:00","text":"輕微中毒者，一至二天內他會自動痊癒，重則因劇烈嘔吐導致脫水、電解質不平衡及血壓下降，更嚴重者會造成昏迷、抽搐……是。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:51:57.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:00.026000+08:00","text":"呼吸中樞麻痺，導致死亡嘛？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:00.026000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:03.467000+08:00","text":"那要量比較大。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:03.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:13.692000+08:00","text":"我搜尋了一下，全國各縣市政府的衛生局都在呼籲，請勿食用發芽的馬鈴薯。是。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:15.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:17.394000+08:00","text":"所以衛福部，那你的意見呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:18.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:21.360000+08:00","text":"我們也是呼籲民眾，如果看到有發芽的就不要吃，是。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:21.360000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:23.160000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:23.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:26.801000+08:00","text":"所以吃了就很可能造成我們身體健康的危害。是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:27.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:32.443000+08:00","text":"所以衛福部的立場跟全國各縣市衛生局是一樣的嘛！是。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:32.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:34.223000+08:00","text":"有做這方面的宣導吧？是。有嘛？對。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:34.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:54.726000+08:00","text":"好，那我再請教農業部胡次長，今年2月6號你就公告、訂定，對於現在美國產加工用馬鈴薯的輸入檢疫條件做調整。是。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:54.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:52:55.667000+08:00","text":"請問為什麼做出調整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:52:56.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:53:12.544000+08:00","text":"調整就是把本來進口的不管是鮮食或者加工，一旦查到的話就退運，後來2月6號調整是把鮮食跟加工的分開，用途不同，因為鮮食進來的……","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:53:12.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:53:25.149000+08:00","text":"我知道，鮮食跟加工的，但是現在是針對加工的部分，不像我們剛才講的發覺有發芽就全部不得輸入，你現在是讓它輸入，然後再去做篩檢？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:53:25.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:53:43.255000+08:00","text":"不是，我們有三道把關，第一個，我們如果檢疫的時候發現有發芽的部分，如果它發芽得太長或者比例太高，比如達到兩、三成，我們也會要求他退運或銷毀。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:53:44.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:53:56.442000+08:00","text":"而如果很少，因為過去這幾年來平均查驗到發芽的只有0.6，如果我們發現了以後，會要求這些進口人提出改善計畫。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:53:56.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:02.105000+08:00","text":"其實次長，我想問你的是，你新的法規跟舊的法規為什麼要做這種調整？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:02.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:09.110000+08:00","text":"你原本的規定就是，只要發芽超過5毫米的就不得輸入嘛！是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:09.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:12.532000+08:00","text":"那你現在為什麼再去做不一樣的改變？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:12.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:13.512000+08:00","text":"現在是放寬嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:14.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:15.233000+08:00","text":"不是，用途不同。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:17.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:18.795000+08:00","text":"就是進來之後我們再去查，然後看它發芽的長度是多少。","quality":0.348},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:18.795000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:20.116000+08:00","text":"是，這個是……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:20.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:23.898000+08:00","text":"你再去查、請加工廠來查驗，是不是這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:23.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:26.580000+08:00","text":"不是，我們查驗的不是加工廠查驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:26.580000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:27.580000+08:00","text":"是誰查驗？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:26.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:28.981000+08:00","text":"它如果要進來的話，因為我們有做……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:29.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:29.941000+08:00","text":"海關查驗喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:31.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:40.127000+08:00","text":"不是，我們有檢疫人員在海關就檢查到了，如果有的話，而且情況不是很嚴重，就這樣的情況，我們會問這些進口的人：你願不願意……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:40.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:43.049000+08:00","text":"那你是抽檢還是每一顆都查啊？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:43.049000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:44.049000+08:00","text":"你怎麼查？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:44.049000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:45.049000+08:00","text":"那很簡單，我們在一個貨櫃裡面前、中、後……那個肉眼就可以看得到了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:45.049000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:46.049000+08:00","text":"前、中、後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:46.049000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:47.049000+08:00","text":"因為它是用網袋。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:43.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:44.169000+08:00","text":"一個貨櫃有幾顆馬鈴薯啊？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:44.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:44.309000+08:00","text":"一個貨櫃25公噸。對啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:44.309000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:49.382500+08:00","text":"25公噸應該有上萬顆吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:49.382500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:54.456000+08:00","text":"有八萬多顆。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:54.456000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:54:59.529500+08:00","text":"你們怎麼查？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:54:59.529500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:04.603000+08:00","text":"我們是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:04.603000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:09.676500+08:00","text":"用肉眼去查？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:09.676500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:14.750000+08:00","text":"可以啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:14.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:16.050000+08:00","text":"因為疫病、蟲害也好，土壤也好……除非有懷疑它啦！","quality":0.316},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:16.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:19.793000+08:00","text":"懷疑這個有黑色斑點，我們就把它送到我們的試驗、改良場所……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:19.793000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:21.714000+08:00","text":"我請教你啦！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:21.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:38.405000+08:00","text":"現在整個馬鈴薯的輸入，我查到的資料是，除進口的冷凍馬鈴薯外，馬鈴薯（種薯除外）生鮮或冷藏的主要輸入國是美國（約占85%）以及澳大利亞（約占15%）。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:42.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:47.732000+08:00","text":"那我請問你，這次是針對美國的加工用馬鈴薯做調整？是。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:48.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:49.814000+08:00","text":"那澳大利亞進口的部分呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:50.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:51.335000+08:00","text":"照原來的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:52.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:52.456000+08:00","text":"就排除了？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:54.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:55.178000+08:00","text":"他們如果……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:55.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:56.178000+08:00","text":"就按照舊的法規？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:55:55.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:55:56.759000+08:00","text":"就是只有針對美國，因為那個是「美國產加工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件」，所以如果……","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:03.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:04.884000+08:00","text":"那澳洲的呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:05.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:07.805000+08:00","text":"澳洲就是照目前的──它沒有跟我們談。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:08.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:09.565000+08:00","text":"為什麼要這樣區分呢？本來……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:10.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:13.666000+08:00","text":"美國跟澳大利亞為什麼要做區別？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:14.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:15.947000+08:00","text":"因為美國給你們施壓嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:16.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:21.468000+08:00","text":"不是，本來我們就不斷在做兩國之間的諮商，這是一直都在做的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:21.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:35.593000+08:00","text":"所以我們2月份針對「美國產加工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件」公告放寬，就是只針對美國這個地區進口的馬鈴薯來做變更調整嘛！","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:36.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:38.975000+08:00","text":"這整個談判我們覺得非常不公平的！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:41.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:44.918000+08:00","text":"國際上其實也都只針對加工用的，沒有……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:45.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:56:47.639000+08:00","text":"那為什麼不把澳大利亞的也規定進去，只規定美國的？","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:56:51.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:00.171000+08:00","text":"我們在民國94年的時候對每個國家都是一致的，後來陸陸續續有國家之間的相互諮商。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:00.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:12.024000+08:00","text":"107的規定和2月份的公告都只針對美國產的加工用馬鈴薯，其他國家按照你剛剛的說法，還是適用舊的法規。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:12.024000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:13.905000+08:00","text":"是，我跟委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:13.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:17.747000+08:00","text":"為什麼要為美國量身定做一個新的輸入檢疫條件？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:18.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:19.588000+08:00","text":"因為其他國家沒有提出。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:20.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:21.748000+08:00","text":"事實上我們要公告之前……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:22.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:24.289000+08:00","text":"所以我們就是只放寬美國的馬鈴薯嘛！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:24.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:25.250000+08:00","text":"不是這樣子啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:25.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:27.751000+08:00","text":"因為國際之間的貿易談判就是這樣。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:29.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:42.942000+08:00","text":"剛才衛福部莊次長講得很清楚，發芽的馬鈴薯確實不適合食用，加工後的也不能吃，吃了就是會危害國人健康啊！","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:42.942000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:44.045000+08:00","text":"我可以……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:44.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:57:53.803000+08:00","text":"所以在把關上真的要更加慎重，如果農業部做這樣的開放，對國人健康真的非常不重視啦！","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:57:55.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:06.194000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實2月6日公告之前，我們有先在國內公開討論14天，同時也有提交給WTO，都沒有接到任何意見。","quality":0.442},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:08.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:10.138000+08:00","text":"剛才也有很多委員關心你們未來對加工廠的選別要如何監管。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:17.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:24.208000+08:00","text":"加工廠要如何檢測不適宜的發芽馬鈴薯？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:25.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:28.451000+08:00","text":"你們未來要如何對加工廠的選別進行監管？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:28.451000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:32.113000+08:00","text":"要怎麼查？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:32.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:34.975000+08:00","text":"加工廠的部分我們會會同衛福部。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:36.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:51.647000+08:00","text":"事實上加工廠指定的地點是準用保稅區，它的標準就是貨運車出來的時候要先貼封條（封緘），然後GPS……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:52.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:53.669000+08:00","text":"你們的量能足夠嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:53.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:55.551000+08:00","text":"這完全比照保稅區的做法，裡面都必須設監測器。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:55.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:58:56.451000+08:00","text":"因為過去沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:58:56.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:12.663000+08:00","text":"你們現在加入這樣的規定，一定需要更多的人力，那麼你們的檢驗人力足夠嗎？","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:12.663000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:13.663000+08:00","text":"我們會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:12.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:15.865000+08:00","text":"你說比照過去，但是過去就沒有這個規定嘛！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:16.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:16.526000+08:00","text":"對，但是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:16.526000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:17.646000+08:00","text":"現在新加入這個規定，你們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:17.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:18.827000+08:00","text":"但是比例不大啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:20.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:25.971000+08:00","text":"就是我們抽到的太低了，0.6%而已，所以會增加人力沒有錯……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:25.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:28.833000+08:00","text":"0.6%就很危險了，你現在講0.6%，或許進來的不只0.6%啊！","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:30.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:32.115000+08:00","text":"會有一個黑數存在啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:32.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:34.455000+08:00","text":"次長，你們不要太有信心啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:36.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:38.857000+08:00","text":"事實上要進來的時候，美國自己在他們國內就要做檢驗了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:39.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:39.997000+08:00","text":"那是書面審查！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:40.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:44.939000+08:00","text":"我剛剛都看了，只要他們提出檢疫證明，你們就同意它進來了……","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:46.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:46.940000+08:00","text":"進來之後我們還要檢查啊！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:47.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:49.201000+08:00","text":"進來之後才送去加工廠去做檢測嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:49.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:51.081000+08:00","text":"不是、不是，海關就先檢查了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:51.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:53.682000+08:00","text":"所以美國進來完全是書面檢測而已嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:54.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T11:59:57.503000+08:00","text":"美國單方面說它這個是沒問題的、是沒有發芽的……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T11:59:57.503000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:00.509000+08:00","text":"這是國與國之間相互談判的，不是隨便寫的、偽造的，這不可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:00.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:02.230000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，你們未來到底是採取每批都檢驗，還是抽樣檢驗？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:14.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:15.543000+08:00","text":"這個問題很重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:16.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:19.805000+08:00","text":"在邊境的話，當然是抽樣……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:19.805000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:20.805000+08:00","text":"卓院長說每一顆都要檢驗啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:19.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:32.774000+08:00","text":"那個是在加工廠裡面，在加工廠裡面是逐批，比如說申請人這一批有3個貨櫃，逐批、逐櫃、逐顆，在加工廠裡面，我們全部一顆、一顆……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:32.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:33.234000+08:00","text":"逐櫃、逐顆，每一顆都會檢驗啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:33.234000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:34.234000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:34.234000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:35.234000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:33.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:33.375000+08:00","text":"要落實啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:33.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:34.375000+08:00","text":"要為國人健康把關。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:34.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:35.375000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:33.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:34.695000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，我們非常重視。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:35.195000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:36.909286+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:37.209286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:39.780714+08:00","text":"林思銘委員質詢結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T12:00:40.080714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:00:42.652143+08:00","text":"接下來請羅明才委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}