{"error":false,"id":["168818"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168818,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168818","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T12:04:51+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T12:14:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:55","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442e521a68e3ba92a356e07bf52eec0dd4908965b28c46199cc12eae036270d068b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"12:04:51 - 12:14:46","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部就「脆弱家庭兒少支持服務及兒少保護個案處遇之跨體系協作與銜接機制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.11096875,"end":2.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":6.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.7134687500000005,"end":6.814718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.379718750000002,"end":10.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.172843750000002,"end":107.49096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.03096875,"end":188.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.25596875000001,"end":126.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.77659375000002,"end":143.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.93971875,"end":152.46284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.99846875,"end":154.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.81096875,"end":166.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.69159375,"end":174.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.20096875000002,"end":181.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.93409375000002,"end":220.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.59596875000003,"end":192.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.74346875,"end":193.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.77721875,"end":252.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.32909375000003,"end":225.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.73346875000001,"end":230.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.39971875,"end":232.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.84159375000002,"end":240.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.84534375,"end":242.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.81971875000002,"end":245.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.92409375000003,"end":290.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.54659375,"end":265.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.08346875,"end":285.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.87159375000005,"end":302.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.28034375000004,"end":294.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.71784375000004,"end":307.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.69596875,"end":339.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.94846875,"end":312.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.85846875000004,"end":321.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.97596875,"end":325.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.09721875,"end":332.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.40909375,"end":334.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.51409375000003,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.34096875,"end":364.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.96909375,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.81659375000004,"end":346.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.54159375,"end":350.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.16596875000005,"end":351.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.66784375000003,"end":353.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.44659375000003,"end":377.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.15034375000005,"end":370.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.50034375,"end":371.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.52471875000003,"end":377.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.89596875,"end":400.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.60971875,"end":429.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.30471875,"end":408.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.33659375,"end":420.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.03596875000005,"end":427.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.51659375,"end":434.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.89596875,"end":432.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.84909375,"end":499.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.18159375000005,"end":440.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.09284375000004,"end":441.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.16409375,"end":444.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.09721875,"end":467.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.77221875000004,"end":468.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.49784375,"end":468.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.36409375000005,"end":487.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.65034375000005,"end":491.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.07096875,"end":562.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.56409375000004,"end":503.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.2722187500001,"end":562.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.52534375,"end":562.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.81221875,"end":568.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.0815937500001,"end":568.2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我們請部長有氣質的部長歡迎 您好部長好 部長在這個4月份 4月2號是社工日我們彰化這邊也有舉辦這個社工的表揚大會那在會場上面 其實社工也表達他們的工作其實這個面對的第一線"},{"start":27.401,"end":42.382,"text":"他們很多都是這個協助一些弱勢族群那在這個凱凱案的這個審判一審宣判就是說負責個案訪視的這個社工一過失致死判處有期徒刑兩年"},{"start":43.423,"end":59.555,"text":"那這個判刑之後其實很多社工會覺得他們在這個社會安全網的其中一個他們要面對第一線那如果是這樣子的話其實他們承受的非常大的壓力我想請教部長就是說"},{"start":62.697,"end":84.609,"text":"這個這個宣判之後其實未來有可能社工會有一個出走潮其實社工的工作壓力面對的壓力非常大再來就是說他其實薪資也不高啦那面對這樣的一個狀況部長你怎麼樣來這個止血就是說這個宣判下去其實社工他們"},{"start":85.709,"end":107.098,"text":"私底下也會講啦就是說這個工作確實高壓然後薪資也不是那麼好所以他們出走之後那未來這些弱勢族群或者是社會安全網的其中一員那你要怎麼樣來補足或者是說怎麼樣讓社工的工作環境能夠好一點"},{"start":108.623,"end":126.05,"text":"跟委員說明當然在這個事件發生我們是覺得非常的遺憾那我們也一再的表達我們會做社工的後盾所以在這個判決下來之後那麼大家比較有爭議的這個保證人地位這件事情"},{"start":126.57,"end":153.44,"text":"那麼我們也在明天下午會邀請法界大家來討論討論出一個方式那麼我們來持續的跟這個法界溝通那第二個呢那還是要回到這個如果是以這個案子來講他是在收租養的過程當中那麼就由社工去扛責了那我們在這個事件之後也改變了那麼一定在收租養的過程當中地方政府要扮演一定的角色不要讓社工獨自面對"},{"start":154.6,"end":173.054,"text":"那第三個當然對於社工的人力的補充還有這個薪資津貼那麼這些我們也會持續的來改善那包含我們在社安法2.0裡面那麼也預計在持續的去螺絲更多的社工的人員"},{"start":173.875,"end":188.247,"text":"那當然也要搭配這個資訊系統的整合那麼包含一些AI的協助讓他的工作負荷也能夠得到一些緩解所以這些我們都在努力的在做"},{"start":189.028,"end":193.511,"text":"其實社工這個工作需要有很大的勇氣跟熱情其實我們看到就是說彰化這邊的接受表揚的這些社工其實他們在這個社工的這個工作有的就是時間都已經很長那就是有那個熱情才有辦法做這麼久"},{"start":207.742,"end":224.936,"text":"所以我覺得說衛福部應該是要成為社工的一個最好的一個後盾那個未來怎麼樣讓他們的工作這個環境能夠更好我覺得應該是衛福部這邊應該要做的其實社工的工作很多時候跟醫護人員差不多"},{"start":225.696,"end":252.283,"text":"他面對的這個個案的狀況其實有時候差異很大然後也有很多的不預期性那甚至有時候還有急迫性要處理像保護性社工經常是晚上就可能也要臨時出來處理所以他的這個工作高壓然後風險也不低所以我覺得應該要有不同的思維那我們絕對是做社工的後退"},{"start":253.844,"end":271.217,"text":"其實我們看到這個就是說社工跟保母那社工跟保母之間其實也不是說這個監督或者是被監督的這樣一個關係其實應該是一個這個協助跟合作的一個關係所以其實我看到"},{"start":273.358,"end":289.947,"text":"這個社工被判刑其實我覺得說一個社工他如果說一個月才去訪視一次那如果保姆有意要隱瞞的話其實社工其實也很難去看出來所以剛剛部長有特別提到可能就是有一些協助可能要有一些"},{"start":290.968,"end":318.56,"text":"其他的一個協助對社工來講可能我是覺得說還要有額外的其他的一個協助才會讓這個社工才不會因為未來的其他的事件然後造成社工一個很大的一個負擔對就是當然我們盡量讓這個制度體系做得更好來接觸每一個孩子但是對於執行者這個社工而言那麼如果結果"},{"start":319.9,"end":336.453,"text":"不如預期那我們也需要回頭來看看這個注意義務啦並不是說不好就絕對是有過失還是要回頭來看看他的注意義務以及他的專業材料這個其實跟我們這個醫事人員的這些專業其實是很類似的"},{"start":339.555,"end":363.888,"text":"當然就是說有一些可能需要去檢討的部分那需要檢討需要改進那當然就是剛剛講的可能縣市政府這邊也許還有其他的督導那是不是也要給其他在第一線的人可能要如果說有一些疏忽可能在第一線在座其實他也許沒有發現那後面的督導可能也要給他一些協助"},{"start":365.889,"end":383.725,"text":"這個是跟起始理論一樣常常都是很多的環節上出了問題才會看到最後這個結果所以我們來做一些制度或系統上的改善那部長剛剛也有委員特別問到就是說社工昨天有到行政院遞交陳情書"},{"start":384.966,"end":400.145,"text":"那像這樣子的話其中有一部分就是說這個訴求社工非社安網執行者不是制度漏接唯一承擔者那像這樣子的話就是說我們部長對於社工的這個訴求你的回應是怎樣"},{"start":400.806,"end":426.245,"text":"對 就跟我剛剛所提到的這個就是像那個乳酪理論一樣啦一個看到最後的這個結果當然很不幸可是中間是有很多環節上沒有接住所以我們才會在這個事件之後呢做了一些改善改變包含這個資訊的串流啦那麼包含這個制度上這個地方政府應該扮演的角色要把它進來"},{"start":427.626,"end":455.225,"text":"那這些都是其實都是從這個事件之後我們做的一些改善我們就一件一件的來做這樣的我是覺得說針對這個制度可能有時候也是要做一個通盤的檢討是的不好的部分當然就是要去做一些改善那剛剛部長也有特別提到就是說社工的這個部分整個這個工作的這個環境然後職業的環境職業的這個安全的部分其實我們也要一併去考慮"},{"start":457.706,"end":471.07,"text":"其實我會覺得說社工的這個工作真的確實因為他們第一線面對的可能都是我們社會當中的一些比較弱勢的族群那有時候他們在訪視的時候"},{"start":473.592,"end":498.05,"text":"這些族群他們訪視的時候可能又會把一些這個壓力或者是他訴說的一個狀況就是社工了解之後其實社工的壓力也是很大因為他聽到可能有一些就是負面的負面的情緒所以社工其實他的壓力也非常的大那我也希望就是說這個我們部裡面針對社工的這個職業安全或者是"},{"start":500.171,"end":512.726,"text":"也許社工他搞不好自己也需要心理諮商我覺得其實我會碰到很多譬如說我們家福的一些社工其實他們到第一線去訪視之後"},{"start":515.269,"end":534.269,"text":"社工他們會講說這個家庭的狀況那有時候如果社工本身心理狀況不是那麼堅強的話其實他的情緒也是會有一些起伏所以我們也希望一方面就是讓社工有一個安全的這個職業環境那另外就是說社工的心理"},{"start":534.95,"end":562.043,"text":"心理狀況其實我覺得我們也要去注意啦那讓更多人願意投入社工的這個工作要不然其實我覺得這個判刑出來之後其實很多人會覺得說那我就去隨便找一個工作他的這個工作環境也許還比社工好那薪水也許也會比社工還高所以我覺得這方面也是我們這個部裡面未來要去注意的"},{"start":562.903,"end":587.768,"text":"我們來強化那個對社工的那個心理支持的部分我們來強化好那這個工作是這個整個工作環境是最重要的啦如果說社工有這個熱情有這個熱心有這個熱情投入那如果整個環境對他是不利的話其實我覺得那個未來社工的出走潮應該是會一波接著一波好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":590.228,"end":592.135,"text":"好 謝謝我們黃秀芳委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}