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審計部敢不敢這樣寫審計長是因為立法院的關係他敢 他點頭了你就不用上來了好 接下來再算了說那如果是六月的話那我問你啊"},{"start":232.569,"end":259.71,"text":"老榮津貼國寶年金八大社福津貼來得及什麼時候送追加預算民眾都非常期待這三筆預算兩筆追溯到1月1號另外是7月1號總共的金額高達355億民眾充滿期待如果按照這種方式那我就再請教一下主計長您預估的這個時程大概什麼時候"},{"start":261.459,"end":283.937,"text":"我們應該是 因為現在我們已經開始籌編116年度的一個預算那是明年的事情 我現在問你追加預算的部分但是追加預算也大概是跟他差不多一個期間 因為為什麼大概幾月 能不能說個時間點大概八月底八月才能送八月送的話 要等到通過的話 民眾是不是都要等很久大概等到什麼時候"},{"start":285.682,"end":312.353,"text":"反正本會本院非常的勤勞認真啦 研會啦會一直研下去啦所以我們還是希望說這一次預算的一個115年預算審查能夠跨年預算因為最佳預算它不是那麼快的一個能夠通過對我知道年代關係嘛有一定物價的一個相關的措施而且這還是很順利喔你六月的時候中旬通過三讀喔年度預算喔接下來你才會"},{"start":313.453,"end":335.223,"text":"通過這個追加預算喔這前面快後面還會跟著快喔但是我也跟委員報告勞農年金和國保年金這些的相關的條例他還沒有過啦喔還沒有過喔對對對你看這樣拖下去就更久了不是嗎相關的條例還沒有過就拖下去更久而且你後面還有軍公教加薪會不會加薪啊"},{"start":337.248,"end":341.093,"text":"這個人種的那邊它是有這樣的規劃那這個捧份怎麼辦 也是用追加預算那重點是這個追加預算會不會一併處理"},{"start":348.587,"end":372.654,"text":"一併會處理一併處理嘛如果軍工要加薪的話就跟前面的這個津貼年金一併處理嘛那穩定物價的那個部分呢一千三百億怎麼辦是這個部分呢就是要第一個當然他多少是要看戰爭的一個期限啦那第二個還要看說補貼的一個項目的期間到底是多少所以必須要其實做一個台式可是現在無限期休戰啊對啊"},{"start":375.515,"end":400.741,"text":"所以現在就是說我們要看行政院整個財市是怎麼財市所以不一定會編?這1300億不一定會編?因為目前就已經有中油的部分包括台電都有一些支出其實是應該要做一些的填補如果有辦追加預算是應該要一次辦或者是說要辦特別預算這必須要看行政院的財市啦"},{"start":401.041,"end":418.221,"text":"所以說這個要怎麼收處理 對一般就是說我們希望能夠在八月底也就是說三大福利 軍公教加薪一併在八月底盡可能把它提出來 還有穩定物價因為軍公教加薪比較不確認 軍公教加薪這個部分是不是提出來"},{"start":419.082,"end":446.602,"text":"要看人總這邊我這邊比較沒有辦法幫你但是人總已經在朝向這個方向了我本席再就教你一個問題除了這個預算之外中央發債的部分目前只有4億這個以行公債的部分也就是說我們整個審計部之前提到財政部在推動非營業基金的發行永續發展債券的時候兩年多一件都沒有辦"},{"start":447.903,"end":474.114,"text":"終於有一件要辦了結果發現多少四億然後我們去看一下台北市、桃園、高雄合計起來多少兩百八十四億那就很奇怪了現在到底是中央比較缺錢還是地方比較缺錢明明財發法過了之後我們就少了四千多億我們完全不緊張耶主席長這是怎麼一回事為什麼整計部這個提出的報告中央不理不睬是不是吃大鍋飯習慣了"},{"start":476.345,"end":504.178,"text":"大家想說預算編一編就好不用另外去籌組財源不用去找銀行你想一想喔你這個4億一放出來馬上啊就被搶空了為什麼因為我們公債的發行量很低嘛所以你永續發展基金的這個發行很多銀行 很多金融機關或者是郵政儲軍馬上會來搶你應該透過這部分來彌補現在你的預算不足這個不是最好的時機嗎 處長是不是"},{"start":505.626,"end":517.035,"text":"是,但是這個部分比較偏財政,是不是請財政部好,財政部來,請財政部等一下等一下,還有你還有你,等一下不好意思,我一直以為是你,誤會你來,那個軟刺,來說明一下,為什麼"},{"start":521.965,"end":538.504,"text":"跟委員報告現在目前中央中央跟地方都一直在推中央目前就只有一筆是4億因為有一筆是高雄的航空站以前出餐的部分大家也做得心不甘情不願"},{"start":540.145,"end":553.61,"text":"現在這個永續發展基金的這個債券其實發展其實更容易因為很多人搶手永續發展債券基本上你們要用一個什麼樣的誘因跟機制來要求中央相關單位來發行"},{"start":555.39,"end":572.538,"text":"我們現在是這樣,先請就是說除了中央跟金管會還有櫃買中心合作來尋找案例之外既然你上了台,剛剛人家主計長就說你,你是主政單位您一個月之內,你要提一個什麼辦法來鼓勵中央相關部會來發行這個永續發展債券,來籌措這個資源"},{"start":578.261,"end":599.335,"text":"以面對現階段預算不足的壓力好不好是 我完全了解用一個月的時間好不好我們信息來推對 你們主政就要去推嘛我們已經在推了好不好 已經在推還不夠嘛你如何刺激他們給他們業績壓力KPI怎麼樣的方法讓他們能夠提早提出來好不好我給你一個月的時間來刺謝謝委員長謝謝最後一個部分那個主席長還有"},{"start":604.338,"end":627.617,"text":"你看我們要求地方政府有個災害準備金的部分要總預算1%一般而言這個災害準備金本席為什麼這麼care在北部相對比較少動用到災害準備金可是在中南部的部分1%往往都不足往往不足的時候都會跟中央來爭取可是中央呢要求地方1%可是中央變多少"},{"start":628.317,"end":631.959,"text":"專政府編0.16照說至少要編303.5億缺口足足差了250億"},{"start":640.257,"end":668.533,"text":"欸 那個 主席長這個災害準備金要多編一點不是說我們要怎麼樣這反倒是備而不用嘛你都要求地方一person為什麼中央不能多一點呢不然我們還要跑去民間募款大家搶食中央的這一步稀少的預算而不夠的情況底下卻責任呢下放到給其他人包括民意代表給一些民間團體這樣不對嘛你這更應該多編一點啦主席長你的看法怎麼樣能不能說明一下"},{"start":669.178,"end":682.429,"text":"我們已經逐年在增加了啦速度不夠啦 我知道啦 之前21現在50億啦那以前它只有對地方有規範1%對中央是沒有規範對我知道 還會微乎其微嘛現在中央責任越來越大了之前中央不都下去"},{"start":686.413,"end":698.827,"text":"開指揮手嗎對啊你們現在責任越來越大現在已經全國不分區的災難所有的地方中央政府跟地方政府都要下去嘛好不好好 謝謝郭委員朝向兩邊的方式來處理好不好雖然我們是在砍預算的可是這一條不能審啦謝謝好 謝謝郭國榮委員的舉行接下來是"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:14+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:15+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請農業部跟財政部的代表，接著是主計長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:15+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:16+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:14.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:20.072000+08:00","text":"次長，為什麼每次講到這種有爭議性的議題，相關單位的講話都像公文一樣，就不會用白話文的語言，怎麼講都講民眾聽不懂的語言，到底出了什麼狀況？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:44.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:44.565000+08:00","text":"講民眾聽不懂？因為……對啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:46.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:56.771000+08:00","text":"一個馬鈴薯的事情，搞到變馬鈴薯之亂，我就問一下，進口檢疫是財政部還是衛福部？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:56.771000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:57.771000+08:00","text":"進口檢疫……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:57.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:57.692000+08:00","text":"還是你們防檢局？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"胡次長忠一","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:57.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:58.692000+08:00","text":"檢疫的部分是我們，我們負責……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:58.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:14:59.692000+08:00","text":"標準有沒有放寬？沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:14:59.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:00.692000+08:00","text":"沒有，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:00.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:03.045000+08:00","text":"那我再問一下，檢驗的比例有沒有放寬？沒有。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:03.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:03.385000+08:00","text":"這兩個就是重點啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:03.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:04.086000+08:00","text":"把這兩個重點講清楚就好了，好不好？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:18.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:20.561000+08:00","text":"次長請回，我再問一下衛福部。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:20.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:43.294000+08:00","text":"衛福部最近有一個洗產地的案子，高雄市議員邱于軒的老公，他的公司大發食材行分別進口中國跟越南進來的芝麻跟香菇，更惡劣的是他們貼著臺灣產地的標籤，這明顯就是洗產地，賣給高雄的學童吃，還怪法規誤導。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:45.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:46.976000+08:00","text":"次長，你說一下好不好？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:47.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:48.256000+08:00","text":"這件事情有沒有裁罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:48.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:49.517000+08:00","text":"有，這個部分衛生局已經罰8萬……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:49.517000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:50.517000+08:00","text":"一樣是食安的問題，馬鈴薯的事情還沒有發生，這已經發生了。","quality":0.04},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:49.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:50.917000+08:00","text":"對，衛生局已經裁罰8萬，另外因為涉及刑法詐欺，所以也已經移送檢調。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:15:51.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:15:51.657000+08:00","text":"不會因為受到議員的壓力就把它蓋下來吧？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:04.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:08.186000+08:00","text":"沒有，目前已經送檢調了，對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:08.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:14.132000+08:00","text":"這已經是發生的事實，這才是需要大力去裁罰的事情，對不對？是。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:14.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:16.835000+08:00","text":"同樣是食安問題怎麼會有兩種標準呢？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:17.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:18.096000+08:00","text":"實在非常奇怪！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:19.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:20.919000+08:00","text":"請衛福部先回去，財政部也先回去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊次長人祥","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:21.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:21.740000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:21.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:22.962000+08:00","text":"各單位先回去，我請主計長。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:22.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:23.962000+08:00","text":"委員你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:22.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:36.581000+08:00","text":"主計長，總預算終於開始審了，這次大概是破天荒，你覺得三讀最快大約是什麼時候？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:37.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:40.782000+08:00","text":"上一次的紀錄是6月15三讀，隔一年啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:41.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:41.963000+08:00","text":"你判斷一下，大概是什麼時候？","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:43.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:45.704000+08:00","text":"我們希望是儘快能夠……儘快？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:45.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:47.485000+08:00","text":"給個大約嘛，你心裡頭要有個譜嘛！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:48.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:51.767000+08:00","text":"如果初估要這樣，至少應該要在6月下旬啦！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:52.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:52.707000+08:00","text":"大概是多少？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:53.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:54.208000+08:00","text":"6月中下旬吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:54.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:57.017000+08:00","text":"就可以三讀審完了？真的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:57.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:58.398000+08:00","text":"我們希望如此。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:16:58.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:16:58.719000+08:00","text":"真的假的？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:00.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:01.821000+08:00","text":"6月中下旬是你現在的期待啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:01.821000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:02.902000+08:00","text":"是啦，是我的期待。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:02.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:03.282000+08:00","text":"我也希望啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:04.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:09.386000+08:00","text":"但是如果是這樣的話，就會牽扯到一個問題，執行率的部分怎麼辦？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:09.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:09.906000+08:00","text":"有沒有掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:10.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:16.613000+08:00","text":"會不會到時候執行率又出問題，明年立法院這個立法機關又說執行率不佳要砍預算，會不會有這種狀況？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:17.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:27.365000+08:00","text":"目前的確會有這樣的狀況，對於一些該發包的，可能會因為經費沒有接續，所以發包的金額沒有達到預定的額度。對啊！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:28.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:33.947000+08:00","text":"現在如果要趕的話，這個部分就是要儘量去追趕一下。是啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:34.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:35.668000+08:00","text":"這樣執行率會很有壓力啊！是。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:36.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:40.409000+08:00","text":"可是如果過度注重執行率，在時間有限的情況底下，品質可能就會有憂慮啊！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:41.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:44.190000+08:00","text":"這個部分也是我們儘量要請各單位儘量……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:45.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:54.618000+08:00","text":"你還要跟審計部講一下，到時候叫他們寫的時候，不要一直怪行政部門，要寫因為立法院不審預算，影響到行政院。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:54.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:58.221000+08:00","text":"審計部敢不敢這樣寫？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:58.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:17:58.221000+08:00","text":"審計長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:17:58.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:00.944000+08:00","text":"因為是立法院的關係，他點頭了，你就不用上來了。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:02.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:12.774000+08:00","text":"接下來要算的是，如果是6月過的話，我就要問你老農津貼、國保年金、八大社福津貼，什麼時候送追加預算？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:12.774000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:13.774000+08:00","text":"來得及嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:13.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:14.735000+08:00","text":"民眾都非常期待啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:16.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:27.325000+08:00","text":"這3筆預算，2筆要追溯到1月1號，另外還有7月1號，總共的金額高達355億，民眾充滿期待啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:28.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:33.690000+08:00","text":"如果按照這種方式，那我就再請教一下主計長，您預估這個時程大概是什麼時候？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:35.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:40.423000+08:00","text":"我們應該是……因為現在我們已經開始籌編116年度的預算了。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:40.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:42.765000+08:00","text":"那是明年的事情，我現在問你的是追加預算的部分。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:43.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:47.709000+08:00","text":"追加預算大概也跟它是差不多的一個期間，為什麼？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:47.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:48.709000+08:00","text":"因為我們本身……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:47.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:48.229000+08:00","text":"大概在幾月？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:48.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:50.491000+08:00","text":"能不能說個時間點？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:50.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:51.292000+08:00","text":"大概是8月底。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:51.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:52.273000+08:00","text":"8月才能送？是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:53.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:56.796000+08:00","text":"8月送，又要等到通過的話，民眾是不是又要等很久？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:57.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:57.917000+08:00","text":"要等到什麼時候？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:57.917000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:18:59.682000+08:00","text":"這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:18:59.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:04.144000+08:00","text":"反正本院非常勤勞認真，延會會一直延下去啦！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:05.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:14.308000+08:00","text":"所以我們還是希望這次115年的預算審查能夠寬列預算，因為追加預算不是那麼快就能夠通過。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:14.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:15.628000+08:00","text":"對，我知道，因為有連帶關係嘛！","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:16.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:18.049000+08:00","text":"穩定物價的相關措施……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:18.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:19.930000+08:00","text":"而且這還是很順利的情況哦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:21.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:31.395000+08:00","text":"6月中旬的時候通過年度預算的三讀，接下來才會通過追加預算，是前面快後面才會跟著快哦！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:32.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:39.038000+08:00","text":"但是我也要跟委員報告，老農年金和國保年金這些相關的條例還沒有過。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:39.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:40.159000+08:00","text":"還沒有過哦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:41.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:41.619000+08:00","text":"對、對、對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:41.619000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:42.619000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們也沒……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:41.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:44.241000+08:00","text":"你看，這樣拖下去就更久了不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:44.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:49.203000+08:00","text":"相關的條例還沒有過，要拖下去就更久了，而且你後面還有軍公教加薪，會不會加薪啊？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:51.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:52.710000+08:00","text":"人總那邊是有這樣的一個規劃。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:52.710000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:53.710000+08:00","text":"有這樣規劃？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:53.710000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:54.710000+08:00","text":"但要整體來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:52.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:53.111000+08:00","text":"那這個部分怎麼辦？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:53.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:53.711000+08:00","text":"也是用追加預算嗎？是。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:54.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:54.272000+08:00","text":"重點是這次……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:19:54.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:19:55.073000+08:00","text":"這個追加預算會不會一併處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:02.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:02.727000+08:00","text":"會一併處理。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:03.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:03.827000+08:00","text":"會一併處理嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:04.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:08.969000+08:00","text":"如果軍公教加薪的話，就跟前面的津貼、年金一併處理嘛！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:10.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:13.130000+08:00","text":"穩定物價的那1,300億怎麼辦？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:13.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:25.294000+08:00","text":"這個部分就要……第一個，它多少要看戰爭的期限；第二個，還要看補貼項目的期間到底是多少，所以必須由行政院作出裁示。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:25.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:26.614000+08:00","text":"可是現在是無限期休戰啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:26.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:29.515000+08:00","text":"情勢也有變化啊！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:29.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:34.396000+08:00","text":"所以現在就是要看行政院會怎麼裁示。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:34.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:36.257000+08:00","text":"所以這1,300億不一定會編？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:36.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:37.357000+08:00","text":"因為目前就已經……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:37.357000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:40.478000+08:00","text":"停戰嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:40.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:43.238000+08:00","text":"包括中油和台電都有一些支出……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:43.238000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:44.499000+08:00","text":"已經有給付了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:44.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:47.059000+08:00","text":"其實應該要做一些填補。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:47.059000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:48.059000+08:00","text":"已經補貼了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:47.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:50.960000+08:00","text":"如果有辦追加預算應該要一次辦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:50.960000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:51.960000+08:00","text":"是給中油跟台電？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:50.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:54.101000+08:00","text":"或者是辦特別預算，這必須看行政院的裁示。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:55.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:56.543000+08:00","text":"所以這要什麼時候處理？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:56.543000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:20:58.665000+08:00","text":"也是這……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:20:58.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:02.370000+08:00","text":"一般就是說，我們希望能夠在8月底以前把它處理掉。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:02.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:08.096000+08:00","text":"也就是說，三大福利、軍公教加薪，要一併在8月底儘可能地把它提出來，還有穩定物價？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:08.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:15.404000+08:00","text":"軍公教加薪比較不確定，軍公教加薪這個部分是不是要提出來，要看人總那邊，我這邊比較沒有辦法幫你……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:15.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:18.406000+08:00","text":"了解，但是人總已經在朝這個方向做了。是。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:19.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:40.602000+08:00","text":"本席再就教你一個問題，除了這個預算之外，中央發債的部分目前只有4億，乙型公債的部分，也就是說整個審計部之前提到的，財政部在推動非營業基金發行永續發展債券的時候，兩年多一件都沒有辦。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:41.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:44.584000+08:00","text":"終於有一件要辦了，結果是發行多少？4億。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:45.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:51.067000+08:00","text":"我們去看臺北市、桃園、高雄合計起來是多少？284億。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:51.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:54.629000+08:00","text":"這就很奇怪了，現在到底是中央比較缺錢，還是地方比較缺錢？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:54.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:21:58.310000+08:00","text":"明明財劃法過的時候我們就少了四千多億，卻完全不緊張耶！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:21:59.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:01.091000+08:00","text":"主計長，這是怎麼一回事？債務……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:02.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:08.094000+08:00","text":"為什麼審計部提出的報告中央不理不睬，是不是吃大鍋飯習慣了？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:10.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:16.388000+08:00","text":"大家想說預算編一編就好，不用另外去籌措財源、不用去找銀行。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:17.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:23.912000+08:00","text":"你想一想，這4億一放出來，馬上就被搶空了，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:23.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:25.913000+08:00","text":"因為我們公債的發行量很低嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:26.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:34.657000+08:00","text":"所以要發行永續發展基金很多銀行、很多金融機構或者是郵政儲金馬上會來搶。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:34.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:37.958000+08:00","text":"你應該透過這個部分來彌補現在預算的不足，這不是最好的時機嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:37.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:38.158000+08:00","text":"主計長，是不是？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:39.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:42.989000+08:00","text":"是，但是這個部分比較偏財政，是不是請財政部……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:43.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:44.710000+08:00","text":"好，財政部來，請財政部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:45.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:50.355000+08:00","text":"等一下，還有你，你等一下，不好意思，我一直以為是你，誤會你了。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:50.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:22:51.035000+08:00","text":"阮次，請說明一下為什麼？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:22:55.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:04.875000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前中央跟地方都一起在推，中央目前就只有一筆是4億。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:04.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:05.875000+08:00","text":"太少了啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:05.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:07.799000+08:00","text":"另外有一筆是高雄的航空站，那是790億。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:08.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:19.967000+08:00","text":"以前促參的部分大家也做得心不甘情不願，現在這個永續發展基金的債券要發展起來其實更容易，因為很搶手。是。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:20.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:27.589000+08:00","text":"對於永續發展債券，你們要用什麼樣的誘因跟機制來要求中央相關單位發行？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:29.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:36.874000+08:00","text":"我們現在是這樣，除了會先請中央跟金管會還有櫃買中心合作尋找案源之外，另外……沒有。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:37.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:56.024000+08:00","text":"阮次，既然你上了台，剛剛人家主計長就說你是主政單位，一個月之內你要提一個什麼辦法來鼓勵中央相關部會發行這個永續發展債券，籌措這個資源，以面對現階段預算不足的壓力，好不好？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:56.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:57.104000+08:00","text":"是，我完全了解，我的想法……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:57.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:58.465000+08:00","text":"用一個月的時間好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:23:58.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:23:59.546000+08:00","text":"我們繼續來推，這個我……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:00.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:01.687000+08:00","text":"你們主政你們就要去推嘛，對不對？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:02.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:03.508000+08:00","text":"我們已經在推了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:04.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:12.394000+08:00","text":"已經在推還不夠，你要如何刺激他們，給他們業績壓力，用KPI還是怎麼樣的方法，讓他們能夠提早提出來好不好？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:12.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:12.955000+08:00","text":"我給你一個月的時間，阮次。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:12.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:13.055000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:13.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:13.055000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:13.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:24.323000+08:00","text":"最後一個部分，主計長，我們要求地方政府有關災害準備金的部分，要總預算1%。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:25.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:26.825000+08:00","text":"這個災害準備金本席為什麼這麼care？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:27.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:41.597000+08:00","text":"一般而言，北部相對比較少動用到災害準備金，可是中南部的部分，1%往往都不足，不足的時候都會跟中央爭取，可是中央要求地方出1%，可是中央編多少？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:42.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:42.597000+08:00","text":"中央政府編0.16%。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:42.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:24:45.959000+08:00","text":"照說這至少要編303.5億，缺口是足足差了250億。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:24:54.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:01.901000+08:00","text":"主計長，災害準備金要多編一點，不是說我們要怎麼樣，這反倒是備而不用嘛！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:02.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:05.503000+08:00","text":"你都要求地方1%了，為什麼中央不能多一點呢？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:06.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:19.291000+08:00","text":"不然我們還要跑去民間募款，大家在搶食中央這一部稀少的預算而不夠的情況底下，卻把責任下放給其他的人，包括民意代表、一些民間團體，這樣不對嘛！","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:19.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:20.932000+08:00","text":"你這個應該多編一點啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:21.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:22.513000+08:00","text":"主計長，你的看法怎麼樣，能不能說明一下？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:23.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:24.900000+08:00","text":"我們已經逐年在增加了，以前才編20億。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:26.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:26.701000+08:00","text":"速度不夠啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:26.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:27.762000+08:00","text":"我知道，之前是20億，現在是50億啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:29.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:32.426000+08:00","text":"它只有對地方有規範1%，對中央是沒有規範的。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:32.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:40.994000+08:00","text":"對，我知道，但還是微乎其微，現在中央責任越來越大了，之前中央不還下去開指揮所嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:40.994000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:41.994000+08:00","text":"請郭委員儘速做結論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:41.994000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:42.994000+08:00","text":"不夠的部分，我們會從第二預備金來支應。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:41.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:47.541000+08:00","text":"你們現在責任越來越大，現在是全國不分區的災難，所有中央政府跟地方政府都要下去嘛！","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:47.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:47.961000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:47.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:49.663000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝郭委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:49.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:50.885000+08:00","text":"用增編的方式來處理，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:51.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:52.526000+08:00","text":"雖然我們是在砍預算的，可是這一條不能省啦！好。謝謝。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:52.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:52.667000+08:00","text":"謝謝郭國文委員的質詢。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T12:25:52.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T12:25:52.807000+08:00","text":"接下來請陳玉珍委員。","quality":0.333}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}