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請這個主計長請主計長待會有審計部跟那個審計長 陳審計長等一下 那個等一下 還有農業部還有農業部 胡政賜 胡政賜委員好 那個非常好 上次我們有提到那個離島公共工程的這個問題嘛我們有請主計總書跟這個工程會開會啦就是說你們要來討論說離島公共工程的這個營建成本現在規定是多三成嘛"},{"start":32.575,"end":49.342,"text":"對 以前是百分之三十嘛那我現在就請就是說讓他不要做限制就不做限制我有看到你們給我回覆說不做限制不做限制可能也要在這個相關的這個法律或辦法裡頭比如說你的這個共同性"},{"start":50.922,"end":63.288,"text":"我們會在116年度就做這樣一個規範對 要寫在裡頭因為如果你完全不做限制到時候事實上基層的公務員有時候什麼事也不敢做比較明確 比如說您是說由地方來實際訪查嘛應該怎麼做 給一個辦法寫在裡頭寫清楚對 我們會參照公共工程委員會給的意見然後把它列入我們預算編列一個標準裡面來做規範"},{"start":77.715,"end":105.669,"text":"因為原來事實上在110年度開始本來就有寫說可以有一些單價單位如果有特殊需求可以續名旅遊但這個是例外嘛但是我們的基本例外這麼多就已經變成是一個常態那我是希望在你們的辦法裡頭比較明確一點讓地方工程在這個不管要招標 不會說招標12次流標然後每次一直提高後面的款項一直增加也做不了"},{"start":106.149,"end":125.246,"text":"然後工程的延宕也除了時間成本以外事實上預算也要越來越高事實上是對政府反而不利好 這個麻煩你在今年的就116年的這個共同性費用編列基準表把它寫出來或者要做一個比較明確的函式也可以好 這個麻煩你 謝謝主席長那接著我們請這個沈記處沈記長委員好"},{"start":131.633,"end":145.469,"text":"你好 辛苦了我們這門地方有很多以前是實行戰地政務那戰地政務的時候比如說有很多隱形的地雷比如說軍方 國防部 光部像以我們現在施工環島的難路來講很多有廢棄的軍用油管"},{"start":149.654,"end":167.146,"text":"國安部在當初有做一些軍事設施啦那後來沒有用以後應該理論上是國安部的責任應該去把它拆除嘛那我們現在有在做一些相關的施工的時候遇到一些軍用的設施要嘛有的要保存要嘛有的要拆除那這些東西呢這個國安部並沒有編列專款專用都是由這個地方政府在跟這個申請這個離島建設基金來"},{"start":175.691,"end":199.305,"text":"來做這些就是比如說這個廢棄油管來講以這樣來講是來做這些拆除的工作那利用建設基金是要幫助旅島建設發展那這些東西是國防部當初它遺留下來的那這個邏輯上來講當初這些遺留下來也是國防部的東西嘛那國防部本身其實是有預算是不是請省紀部可以督促這個我們國防部可以落實這個責任的這個法理原則就是"},{"start":200.376,"end":215.318,"text":"他們留下來的東西他們應該編專款比如說幾年內你把它清掉就像以前清地雷一樣不能再有不要再有離島建設因為離島建設現在已經是比較少了那要做離島的建設發展那這個國防部並不是沒有預算嗎"},{"start":216.119,"end":241.795,"text":"他有預算嘛 他可以專款 專用編列一個幾年的 比如說五年的一個清除計畫 針對當初的佔地政府的那些設施嘛這個是讓符合國有財產法的管理機關應該維護管理廢棄的責任當初是軍方管的 基本是軍方管 所以設施也是他們埋下來的 那他們現在就應該把它清除那當然也可以委由地方代辦 但這個財源的部分是請省計出來協助要求"},{"start":242.575,"end":260.065,"text":"謝謝 依照國防部的規定 這是國防部的責任所以我們已經喊請國防部查明第二個我們審計部會做聯合審計因為牽涉國防部 也牽涉金門地方政府所以我們做聯合審計就是由我們第二廳 國防廳和金門審計處聯合把這個問題做一個徹底的了解來處理"},{"start":268.45,"end":277.156,"text":"那個我想你們單位很有力啦也很有執行力也做得很好請你們就是多多督促國防部好 我照府員的意思來做好 謝謝您好 謝謝現在請那個農業部"},{"start":280.711,"end":308.129,"text":"那個農業部特別是這個動植物有房間署來 署長也有來嘛好 署長好這個您看一下齁 這個金門齁金門是 沒關係 市長也可以啦齁市長是農業農糧署的嘛齁 那 署長是是 你也以前在農糧署嘛 對 對那署長是 也是 我們這是講防疫齁 今天要講這個防疫金門跟這個 金門是屬於台澎金嘛 中華民國一部分嘛齁那日本是外國嘛"},{"start":309.349,"end":333.584,"text":"但是你看同樣發生這個牛結節這個牛結節診這個事情日本的牛有牛結節金門的牛也有牛結節這個有安全規範世界安全規範說骨骼機是一個安全產品這沒問題你們的態度是日本的牛有牛結節可以進口不受限制但是金門的牛有牛結節就全面封殺不能進來"},{"start":335.063,"end":347.357,"text":"你們是不是對外國比對自家人還寬容啊同樣的事情金門的牛不能進來但是日本的牛可以進來台灣島就金門牛不能進來台灣啦不能倒啦"},{"start":348.922,"end":368.646,"text":"那哪一位要回答謝謝陳委員的指教那事實上因為以金門來講確實是對於這個大陸的這個太相近你是因為距離近嗎有 他是有道理是因為距離 所以因為金門的距離所以金門很多東西都要被限制嗎陳委員我再說明一下那事實上現在以目前來講"},{"start":371.767,"end":373.229,"text":"我還是要再說明一下就以最近在講的是"},{"start":389.026,"end":407.913,"text":"我先問妳 日本的牛為什麼可以進啊日本的牛節節整的牛可以進喔 不上限喔金門的牛就是不能進啊 我只是要公平待遇我今天要再說明一下 是因為在金門它的牛級的管理並沒有落實跟徹底沒有落實嗎 妳看我現在也覺得我們的那個耳邊已經虧了百分之百了"},{"start":412.635,"end":438.805,"text":"我可以進一步再跟委員做報告你們有去進門看嗎有都有去我們有注射率98 你們覺得注射率94耳標的這個釘掛已經快要百分之百了你們是要要求到百分之百是嗎報告委員確實它在牛脊的管理上有很多放牧的那個地方確實是沒有辦法完全掌握到那我請問一下喔你有沒有完全掌握到日本的牛每一隻牛都有做耳標啊"},{"start":439.685,"end":458.551,"text":"日本有沒有日本有沒有沒有去查地的有查產地絕對有派員去查產地我不要管你產地我先問你難道你的要求是百分之百的耳丁掛牌嗎對不對這是你們的要求嗎"},{"start":460.692,"end":484.223,"text":"這個是不是你們要求巨木法的要求好沒關係這就是牛如果金門牛開放要這樣子嘛對不對對這個標準我可以接受我可以接受反正你要用這個標準我不是不能接受好不好好那就接著我們看怎麼做嘛第一個外國進口牛你也必須要一樣的標準這個我是這樣要求的就是外國進口牛你不要讓我到日本去考察發現日本的牛沒有這樣做我們沒有去查場而且他輸入的"},{"start":485.483,"end":512.513,"text":"是非議點非議點他一定要符合國際規範才有可能他的牛會進來對 國際規範來講牛節節診金門的牛不能進來但是日本的牛不受限所以你告訴我你先告訴我你的標準在哪裡我們照標準做沒有關係我們會配合好 我們配合怎麼做有兩個方向而且最近口蹄疫以大陸來講又新型的口蹄疫大陸跟我什麼關係大陸有口蹄疫不是金門有口蹄疫因為兩岸太密切了太密切 那台灣也離大陸很近啊"},{"start":512.973,"end":528.686,"text":"台灣港也離中國大陸非常近啊 以全世界來講為了保護整個產業 我們一定要有所作為不是 你不要把金門從台灣切開嘛金門就台澎金馬的一部份嘛我們是就防疫的角度上可以開放一公里就要進 一百公里進不進"},{"start":530.285,"end":548.34,"text":"日本離島委員進來我沒有騙你喔我先跟你討論解決方法第一個我想這個自主溯源系統是不是第一個我們農業部來協助做自主溯源所有的金門的牧場我們都一直在協助我們地方政府也會要求地方政府協助"},{"start":549.301,"end":561.452,"text":"包括我們會協助在預算上面你們看是不是要做什麼溯源系統啊QR code啊雲端資料什麼履歷證明這個請你們編列相關預算請地方政府現在做這個我們會協助我們再來討論經費的問題好嗎怎麼經費啊你不編列經費他想要做什麼不是因為報告"},{"start":568.358,"end":580.244,"text":"你們不編列經費然後也不給他進口你們是不想讓這個產業活不是這樣子因為有很多的事在財化法以後是在地方政府你們不編列經費不可能要一條路走嗎你就不支持這個產業嘛要依照財化法的分配約則去做"},{"start":586.727,"end":611.92,"text":"妳又不幫忙 又要限制 我要說明妳願不願意幫忙嘛我們願意接受輔導 我們願意接受規範 妳們又不願意幫忙嘛我們本來就在幫忙 妳們協助預算相關這方面幫忙 那地方政府去做幫阿委員 妳也知道 我們都一直在幫妳妳是說妳們沒有錢是不是不是沒有錢 沒關係 妳看我多少錢 需要多少錢我幫妳從別的地方省下來 好不好我幫農業部從別的地方省下來來做這個吧 好不好我們到審議的時候 我看需要多少錢我看妳哪一個部會的錢 哪一個農業部拿的錢"},{"start":614.201,"end":626.889,"text":"比較浪費 我們三下也來跟這邊做嘛 好不好 這我們來協助你齁然後另外的 那日本 你告訴我日本的牛 你們每一隻牛都有耳標對不對所以你說的喔 我可以跟他們這樣說但是它出口的時候 它一定要符合我們的諮商談判的檢疫的條件金門也有茶廠金門是國內喔 金門是國內 你第一個觀念"},{"start":640.237,"end":652.903,"text":"你們每次的觀念都是說比如說禽流感的時候比如說禽流感的時候我講禽流感好了禽流感的時候金門沒有禽流感什麼屏東哪裡都有禽流感金門的雞蛋也不能來台灣你們每次都說因為金門離中國大陸比較近所以什麼都不能進來你們根本就把金門當作是"},{"start":657.605,"end":679.592,"text":"我們的防疫角度上 我們是依照風險的高低日本的牛沒有掛標就沒有風險 金門牛沒有掛標就沒有風險我們跟他們作戰體系是一致性你們跟日本作戰體系是一致性你們跟日本作戰體系 金門跟台灣作戰體系沒有一致性我講的是在國內 所有的我們的防疫體系是在 大家都是在"},{"start":680.632,"end":691.205,"text":"同一個陣線上所以為什麼日本的牛可以進來 你這樣回答為什麼金門牛一樣標準 金門牛不能進來我還是在想 雙方之上的檢疫條件對 就是因為地理性嘛那我跟你講 那這一題等於那這一題等於動物的疾病因為金門島就是奔不走嘛"},{"start":696.671,"end":699.472,"text":"我們來協助好嗎協助看這個層面其實不一定只有經費啦有些也是在技術上技術上我們可以協助我們一定都幫忙好不好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}