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請主席邀請卓院長還有經濟部長貝勳"},{"start":39.565,"end":42.908,"text":"美伊戰爭爆發後,荷姆斯海峽遭封鎖,導致中東石油產地運輸問題,造成國際能源價格飆漲"},{"start":64.529,"end":88.349,"text":"尤其就是说在海峡遭封锁之后石油的供应也造成了很大的一个危机也造成了石化原料的一个短缺所以这样子的一个状况当然对我们整个国家的民生经济造成很大的冲击我们看到行政院目前就是针对为了要稳定物价防止通货膨胀所以我们也有几项的"},{"start":88.909,"end":93.092,"text":"重大的措施包括針對運輸的票價動漲還有國內的油價目前動漲還有補貼計程車車資還有一些措施我現在想請教一下"},{"start":110.664,"end":121.511,"text":"對於針對中小企業的一個衝擊目前我們行政院或者經濟部這邊有沒有去掌握到對中小企業有造成什麼嚴重的衝擊"},{"start":123.339,"end":140.369,"text":"好跟委員報告原則性的問題第一個行政院從2月底開始就成立了這個因應中東情勢衝突的民生安定專案的小組的會議每個禮拜都會開會每個禮拜三還有物價穩定小組那禮拜五我們還要最後聽這個"},{"start":143.25,"end":169.943,"text":"核算下一周油價是否要做如何的調適這個是固定的那這樣做就是要讓整個產業第一個物價能夠穩定民生能夠安定那當中我們也知道包括塑膠袋一些醫療的這個醫材還有農業的包材等等在原料的源頭比較欠缺的時候我們也啟動了四清它的整個源頭的原料的生產"},{"start":170.663,"end":185.232,"text":"那也把它放生產之後交給下游中下游去做製品那現在已經有5000噸的這個原料能夠產生出12.5億個塑膠袋這個是對民生的部分對於產業我想從大眾運輸企業運輸企業剛剛委員提到了我們從計程車"},{"start":190.856,"end":216.784,"text":"大客車還有這個國內航空還有國內的船舶交通我們也做了全面性的一些補貼的政策那油價跟電價的穩定那是包括民生包括產業都受惠到這整個物價穩定的調整的過程那細節如果請部長再補充那巴偉園除了剛剛院長提到的就是價格的穩定之外然後另外料園我們也希望充足之外"},{"start":217.384,"end":239.113,"text":"事實上因為任性條例的這個部分進一步編了460億嘛那那個本來就是給傳統產業跟中小企業來用的所以就是說不管他是升級轉型也好或是融資貸款的利息補助也好或是多元市場的開拓也好那個持續在做那我們現在收的案件已經好幾千件那也持續在做那另外我們也"},{"start":240.814,"end":262.894,"text":"組織了這個競爭力的輔導團那也輔導了現在已經有4000多家在輔導當中已經有一些完成了那這個部分我們實際在做除了這個之外公務運算也還有100億的中小為多元振興方案那這是院長每一年都會給我們100億那這個也是針對中小企業來做一些協助的所以我們有衝"},{"start":264.505,"end":290.038,"text":"份的這些準備來支撐我們中小企業的一些因應的發展剛剛部長所回答的這些事實上就是說在我們中美貿易談判之後我們這些措施就已經有在實施可是就是說在中美貿易關稅的問題發生的時候當然中小企業他們因為就是這個關稅的問題也導致他們這個就是接單也造成很大的一個困擾就是"},{"start":291.038,"end":312.252,"text":"在要不要接都是一個很大的困擾那現在因為原物料的上漲因為最近我拜訪中小企業他們就反映說目前的原物料漲得非常的高包括其中一項就是甲本它從每公餅4000元漲到現在每公餅要15000元等於是漲了三倍"},{"start":313.132,"end":332.439,"text":"所以這樣子的一個價格這樣子的一個成本導致他們目前就是包括一些食品業者的包材他們要印刷那個封面等等還有包括這個磷膜原料PE和EVA也漲了三到四倍業者做這個果凍上的一絲膜價格也漲了30%"},{"start":334.379,"end":358.495,"text":"這個是在中美貿易關稅之後我們新的一波問題就是因為這個能源的年代的石化原料的問題所衍生的新的目前的一個狀況所以過去就是說在之前你剛剛部長回答的潤性的這些就是措施就是支撐中小企業不管是轉型技術提升等等"},{"start":358.895,"end":377.569,"text":"我覺得對於他們這一次面臨的就是原物料的一個上漲的衝擊我覺得幫助不大我是想建議行政院這邊有沒有考量就是從稅負的就是去減免這個方向去考慮來減輕他們的一些負擔報委員因為現在油價當然是"},{"start":381.189,"end":403.406,"text":"累計起來大概漲了百分之也許70、80、90如果最大幅度漲到這樣子那也是反映這個但是我們有一個平穩措施理論上是不應該漲那麼多的現在油價部份我們大概只有反映百分之十幾到二十而已所以委員如果有發現或是怎麼樣的不合理的case的話"},{"start":404.207,"end":420.17,"text":"也許讓我們知道一下我們來了解到底出了什麼問題這樣子報告委剛剛你說到甲本從4000漲到15000我們是沒有收到這個訊息我會請法務部主動去追查因為這個是超過了漲幅的範圍無論他是不法的轟台或是囤積或是聯合壟斷行為我會請法務部主動去調查這個事情因為"},{"start":429.992,"end":447.037,"text":"目前的掌握度來看不應該有這麼如此高的一個漲價幅度有百分之二十三十也許短時間內還必須可以忍受但是我們盡量把它壓低但是這種幅度實在是太不合理所以我想就是說對於中小企業真的是在苦苦支撐"},{"start":448.357,"end":471.365,"text":"之前的一波中美關稅的衝擊現在又面臨了石油危機的衝擊所以它已經快撐不下去了那我也希望就是說因為中小企業也是我們台灣整體經濟很重要的一部分所以應該要真的要去實際了解就是對於基層中小企業面臨的問題要實際掌握到"},{"start":472.445,"end":496.457,"text":"是不是就是這部分建議部長接下來本席來關心一下有關這個農地工廠合法化的一個目前的狀況我們知道這個剛剛有提到中小企業就是台灣這個經濟的最重要的一個部分那很多的這個中小企業過去以來就是因為工業用地的不足那就是都"},{"start":497.077,"end":515.376,"text":"建立興建在農地上就是這個所謂的農地工廠這也超過50年的問題也是一個歷史工業那我們在2019年我們為了要解決這樣子的一個歷史工業所以我們有修訂了工福法就是開一個路讓他們可以循著這個程序"},{"start":516.576,"end":543.388,"text":"來合法化可是目前我們看到的資料因為我們看到全國目前已經提交改善計畫的有33,467家就是應該提交的那已提交的是29,136家取得特登的是12,767家那全國取得合法工廠登記的有幾家這個我目前沒有問到問不到"},{"start":545.129,"end":562.552,"text":"就我彰化縣的資料來看目前已經提交的是6195家取得特登的是3676家到最後一個階段能夠取得合法工廠登記的只有22家這樣子的一個比例"},{"start":562.992,"end":587.947,"text":"真的是非常的低也可以說寥寥可撫所以本席提這個數據主要就是說希望我們院長能夠去重視就是說這些農地工廠他們在合法化的過程所面臨到的問題到底是什麼樣的問題能不能協助解決如果不能的話我覺得到最後這個還是一個沒有辦法"},{"start":588.628,"end":594.785,"text":"要解決的一個歷史工業那是不是就這樣擺著嗎我不曉得說院長有什麼想法"},{"start":595.165,"end":619.904,"text":"好 謝謝 這個委員所在的這個彰化也是我們這個農登工廠應該是最多最久的一個地方所以長期以來委員的關心我們都了解日前我也跟委員討論過對於這個農登工廠它應該要突破歷史上一些還沒有辦法解決的問題來把它克服掉那它解決到目前可以解決的這個案件實在是太少了"},{"start":620.484,"end":636.06,"text":"那表示我們的任何的規定沒有 現在的規定沒有辦法去因應這些問題那如果在整個農地的管理之下農業部可以在不影響整個農業 農產安全農產量安全的狀況底下如果要來面對這個問題"},{"start":637.481,"end":665.535,"text":"我們已經跟農業部還有內政部做一個通盤的討論那也請委員提供出來在當地的這個產業界需要怎麼樣的處理就產業業者跟政府的現在的規定當間這麼大的落差會如何來彌平這個正在進行研究當中本席提這個數據主要也是希望院長要去了解然後重視這個議題那接下來本席想請教有關就是目前台灣農業面臨的一個問題"},{"start":667.356,"end":669.317,"text":"目前臺灣農村有一個狀況正在發生越南移工變成地下老闆"},{"start":686.568,"end":710.698,"text":"主導在整個農業的一個經營模式請問部長知道嗎我想我們有掌握這樣的一個情況那這種情況最普遍的就是說在合法的農地的一個經營的過程中他可能用五厘地或一分地的部分讓這些移工來自己經營然後拿去販售那這個部分其實我們已經掌握相關的一個資訊"},{"start":712.058,"end":727.855,"text":"同樣的這是一個不合法的行為也會影響到我們國內的農民的生活跟農產的貿易所以後續我想我們再跟勞動部這邊看要怎麼樣去針對非法的移工去做這樣的行為"},{"start":729.436,"end":756.654,"text":"本席在今年過年期間一直到目前陸續就是在田尾、普延就是在走訪基層的時候就有遇到鄉親跟我反映這個問題那時候我在想說因為我本來還不知道有這樣子的一個狀況農民反映之後結果在三月份我們也看到了有一個上下游的網路媒體針對這個議題做了八篇深入的報導我才覺得說那這個已經是一個很普遍"},{"start":757.234,"end":785.457,"text":"很嚴重的一個問題因為當時我在我的選區就是田委遇到的鄉親他們就是反映說今年從過年到目前整個蔬菜價格都沒有很好他就跟我提到說就是有這個外籍移工他們現在就是自己貿產做陶芸他們種植之後他們在販售的時候他們就是壓低這個價格所以導致整個交易"},{"start":786.965,"end":809.962,"text":"蔬菜市場的交易價格就是崩盤拉低了所以這樣子一個狀況的存在我們也希望農業部要去重視當然這個菜價是一體兩面不過我覺得比較嚴重的是食安的問題就是農藥用藥的問題因為我們看到這篇報導裡面他有提到說在去年颱風"},{"start":812.163,"end":821.708,"text":"來襲之前結果在雲林的果菜市場發現了很多批的葉菜類的蔬菜農藥檢驗都超標這樣的狀況去跟他追查之後原來就是為了搶收"},{"start":829.071,"end":855.783,"text":"所以這個就是說這個外籍移工他可能不知道這個農藥的一個管控的期間或者是說他也不知道是不是用了正確的農藥因為他們就是成為實際的這個農業經營者的時候他們能夠去農藥行買農藥嗎就是說在對農藥或者肥料的使用上沒有辦法受到管控所以如果說發生了這樣子的一個食安問題的時候我們要怎樣去溯源"},{"start":856.898,"end":879.483,"text":"我想第一個跟委員報告就是今年年初的這個車家低迷有一大部分的原因是因為去年因為台灣的關係然後過度集中種植導致的那第二個部分針對您所提的這個移工本身的部分現在是用合法掩護非法所以他們是用類似分論的概念就是說合法的農地跟經營主體"},{"start":880.643,"end":903.991,"text":"他提供給這些非法移工做這些經營然後去做抽煙案所以我們現在已經掌握從批發市場批發市場拍賣的時候我們就會特別去注意他本身的經銷人包括實際在拍賣的人是不是一個有問題的一個人那第二個部分在產地面我們也是跟我們的農民講有任何的這種把自己土地分潤給"},{"start":905.231,"end":918.883,"text":"那些外籍移工去做種植然後收入如他們收的部分的話我們是嚴格的未來我們所有的補助所有的救助都不會給予他們那這個部分我想我們會加強第三個就是我們在考慮在適當的時間點我們會啟動聯合稽查"},{"start":922.407,"end":948.932,"text":"剛剛部長講的是其中一個狀況因為我們看這一個報導就是網路媒體的一個報導除了分論之外他們還有一個模式就是他們是真正的就是保地的耕作者所以他們也造成了人地競爭就是說他跟我們台灣的青農競爭在租這個農地所以也造成我們青農在耕作上這個土地"},{"start":962.083,"end":962.484,"text":"好謝謝陳樹越委"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:19:57.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:19:58.470000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請主席邀請卓院長，還有經濟部龔部長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T15:19:58.470000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:20:11.168333+08:00","text":"再請卓院長、經濟部長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:20:11.168333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:20:23.866667+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:20:23.866667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:20:36.565000+08:00","text":"卓院長、龔部長午安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:20:36.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:21:16.702000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊首先要請教一下，我們知道美伊戰爭爆發之後，荷姆茲海峽遭封鎖，所以導致中東這個石油產地的石油運輸發生問題，也造成國際能源價格飆漲，尤其在海峽遭封鎖之後，石油的供應造成了很大的危機，也造成了石化原料的短缺，這樣的狀況當然對我們整個國家的民生經濟造成很大的衝擊。","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:21:17.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:21:29.131000+08:00","text":"我們看到行政院目前為了要穩定物價，防止通貨膨脹，所以有幾項重大措施，包括運輸票價凍漲、國內的油價目前凍漲，還有就是補貼計程車的車資以及其他一些措施。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:21:29.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:21:58.511000+08:00","text":"我現在想請教一下，針對中小企業的衝擊，目前行政院或者經濟部有沒有掌握到對中小企業有造成什麼嚴重的衝擊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:22:00.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:22:24.392000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告原則性的問題，第一個，行政院從2月底開始，就成立了因應中東情勢衝突的民生安定專案小組會議，每個禮拜都會開會，每個禮拜三還有物價穩定小組的會議，禮拜五我們還要聽中油核算下一週油價是否要做如何的調適，這個是固定的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:22:25.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:22:30.055000+08:00","text":"這樣做就是要讓整個產業，第一個，物價能夠穩定，民生能夠安定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:22:30.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:23:00.571000+08:00","text":"那當中我們也知道，包括塑膠袋、一些醫療的醫材，還有農業的包材等等，在原料的源頭比較欠缺的時候，我們也啟動了四輕原料的生產，它生產之後，交給中下游去做製品，現在已經有5,000噸的原料，能夠產生出12.5億個塑膠袋，這個是對民生的部分。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:23:01.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:23:14.858000+08:00","text":"對於產業，我想從大眾運輸事業，剛剛委員提到了，我們對計程車、大客車，還有國內航空、國內的船舶交通也做了全面性的一些補貼政策。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:23:15.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:23:25.181000+08:00","text":"油價跟電價的穩定包括民生、包括產業，都受惠於整個物價穩定的調整過程，細節請部長再補充。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:23:26.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:23:55.212000+08:00","text":"報告委員，除了剛剛院長提到的價格穩定，料源我們也希望充足之外，事實上因為韌性條例的部分經濟部編了460億，那個本來就是給傳統產業跟中小企業來用的，所以不管它是升級轉型也好，或是融資貸款的利息補助也好，或是多元市場的開拓也好，那個持續在做，我們現在收的案件已經好幾千件了，也持續在做。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:23:55.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:24:06.742000+08:00","text":"另外，我們也組織了競爭力的輔導團，現在有四千多家在輔導當中，已經有一些完成了，這個部分我們持續在做。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:24:07.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:24:25.387000+08:00","text":"除了這個之外，公務預算也還有100億的中小微多元振興方案，院長每一年都會給我們100億，這個也是針對中小企業來做一些協助的，所以我們有充分的準備來支撐我們中小企業的一些因應跟發展。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:24:25.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:24:33.211000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長所回答的這些，事實上在我們中美貿易談判之後，這些措施就已經有在實施。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:24:33.211000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:24:34.211000+08:00","text":"是，持續在進行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:24:33.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:24:50.980000+08:00","text":"可是在中美貿易關稅問題發生的時候，當然中小企業他們因為關稅的問題，也導致他們接單有很大的困擾，就是要不要接都是一個很大的困擾。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:24:51.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:25:09.232000+08:00","text":"現在因為原物料上漲，最近我拜訪中小企業，他們反映目前的原物料漲得非常高，包括其中一項甲苯從每公秉4,000元漲到現在要1萬5,000元，等於漲了三倍。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:25:10.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:25:44.668000+08:00","text":"這樣的價格、這樣的成本導致一些食品業者的包材，因為他們要印刷封面等等，還有包括淋膜原料PE、EVA也漲了三到四倍，果凍上的易撕膜價格也漲了30%，這個是在中美貿易關稅之後新一波的問題，就是因為能源連帶著石化原料的問題目前所衍生的新狀況。我想……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:25:47.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:13.689000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長回答的這些韌性措施是支撐中小企業，不管是轉型、技術提升等等，對於他們這次面臨原物料上漲的衝擊來說，我覺得幫助不大，因此想建議行政院這邊要不要從稅負減免的方向去考慮，以減輕一些他們的負擔？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:13.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:29.678000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為現在油價累計起來大概漲了70%、80%、90%，如果最大幅度漲到這樣子，那也是在反映這個，但是我們有一個平穩措施，理論上是不應該漲那麼多的。對啊！","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:29.678000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:30.919000+08:00","text":"那你要去了解，我聽到的訊息是這樣子。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:30.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:44.428000+08:00","text":"現在油價的部分，我們大概只有反映百分之十幾到二十而已，所以委員如果有發現什麼不合理的case的話，也許讓我們知道一下，我們去了解到底出了什麼問題。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:44.428000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:45.788000+08:00","text":"那是我在選區遇到的業者跟我反映的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:45.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:48.028000+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛剛你說到甲苯從4,000漲到1萬5,000。對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:48.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:50.609000+08:00","text":"我們沒有注意到這個訊息。對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:50.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:53.109000+08:00","text":"我會請法務部主動去追查，跟公平會……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:53.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:53.729000+08:00","text":"對，因為這已經超過漲幅的範圍了。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:53.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:26:56.830000+08:00","text":"無論是不法的哄抬、囤積或是聯合壟斷行為，我會請法務部主動去調查這個事情。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:26:57.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:27:19.115000+08:00","text":"因為從目前的掌握度來看，不應該有如此高的漲價幅度，漲20%、30%也許短時間內還可以忍受，我們會盡量把它壓低，但是這種幅度實在是太不合理。對啊！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:27:19.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:27:20.456000+08:00","text":"都已經漲三倍了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:27:20.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:27:34.020000+08:00","text":"所以我想中小企業在苦苦支撐，之前一波是中美關稅的衝擊，現在又面臨石油危機的衝擊，他們已經快撐不下去了。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:27:35.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:27:40.182000+08:00","text":"因為中小企業也是臺灣整體經濟很重要的一部分……當然。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:27:40.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:27:51.446000+08:00","text":"所以真的應該要去實際了解基層中小企業所面臨的問題，要實際掌握到，這部分就建議部長了。是。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:27:51.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:27:57.869000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要關心一下農地工廠合法化目前的狀況。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:28:01.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:28:22.546000+08:00","text":"剛剛有提到中小企業是臺灣經濟最重要的部分，過去很多中小企業因為工業用地不足，都興建在農地上，也就是所謂的「農地工廠」，這是超過50年的問題，也是一個歷史共業。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:28:24.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:28:34.137000+08:00","text":"2019年我們為了要解決這樣的歷史共業，所以就修訂了工輔法，也就是開一條路讓他們可以循著這個程序合法化。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:28:34.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:29:00.368000+08:00","text":"可是就我們目前看到的資料，全國應該提交改善計畫的有3萬3,467家，已經提交的有2萬9,136家，取得特登的是1萬2,767家，全國取得合法工廠登記的有幾家，這個我目前沒有問到，因為問不到。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:29:02.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:29:22.834000+08:00","text":"就我們彰化縣的資料來看，目前已經提交的有6,195家，取得特登的是3,676家，到最後一個階段能夠取得合法工廠登記的只有22家，這樣的比例真的是非常低，也可以說是寥寥可數。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:29:24.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:29:49.800000+08:00","text":"本席提這個數據主要就是希望院長能夠重視，這些農地工廠在合法化的過程中所面臨到的問題到底是什麼，能不能協助解決，如果不能的話，我覺得到最後這也還是一個沒有辦法解決的歷史共業，是不是就這樣擺著嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:29:50.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:29:53.066000+08:00","text":"不曉得院長有什麼想法？謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:29:53.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:30:03.474000+08:00","text":"委員所在的彰化應該也是臨登工廠最多最久的地方，所以長期以來委員的關心我們都了解。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:30:03.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:30:23.230000+08:00","text":"日前我也跟委員討論過，對於臨登工廠，應該要突破歷史上還沒有辦法解決的問題，來把它克服掉，但是到目前可以解決的案件實在是太少了，表示我們現在的規定沒有辦法去因應這些問題。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:30:23.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:30:38.803000+08:00","text":"所以在整個農地管理之下，在不影響整個農業、食安、產量、安全的狀況底下，農業部如何來面對這個問題，我們已經跟農業部還有內政部做一個通盤討論。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T15:30:39.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:30:52.570000+08:00","text":"也請委員提供出來，當地的產業界希望怎麼樣處理，就產業、業者與政府現在的規定之間這麼大的落差要如何來弭平，這個正在進行研究當中。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:30:53.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:30:57.653000+08:00","text":"是，本席提這個數據主要也是希望院長要去了解，並重視這個議題。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:30:58.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:31:02.535000+08:00","text":"接下來，本席想請教目前臺灣農業面臨的一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:31:02.535000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:31:04.356000+08:00","text":"經濟部部長可以先回座，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:31:04.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:31:28.690000+08:00","text":"我不曉得陳部長有沒有發現目前臺灣農村有一個狀況正在發生，就是越南移工變成了地下老闆，主導著整個農業的經營模式，請問部長知道嗎？","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T15:31:28.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:31:47.698000+08:00","text":"我們有掌握這樣的情況，這種情況最普遍的就是在合法農地的經營過程中，他可能用五厘地或一分地讓這些移工自己來經營，並且農產品拿去販售，這個部分我們已經掌握相關的資訊。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T15:31:49.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:32:04.855000+08:00","text":"同樣的，這是一個不合法的行為，也會影響到國內農民的生活以及農產貿易，所以後續我們再跟勞動部討論，看要怎麼樣去處理這些非法移工這樣的行為。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:32:06.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:32:36.296000+08:00","text":"本席在今年過年期間一直到目前陸續在田尾、埔鹽走訪基層的時候，就有遇到鄉親跟我反映這個問題，我本來還不知道有這樣的狀況，農民反映之後，結果在3月份我們也看到網路媒體「上下游」針對這個議題做了八篇深入報導，我才覺得這已經是一個很普遍、很嚴重的問題了。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:32:36.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:33:14.813000+08:00","text":"當時我在我的選區（田尾）遇到的鄉親反映，今年從過年到目前整個蔬菜價格都沒有很好，又跟我提到，就是現在有外籍移工自己承租農田當老闆，他們種植之後，在販售農產品的時候壓低價格，導致整個蔬菜市場的交易價格崩盤、拉低，這樣一個狀況的存在，我們也希望農業部要去重視。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:33:14.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:33:38.688000+08:00","text":"當然菜價是一體兩面，不過我覺得比較嚴重的是食安的問題，就是農藥用藥的問題，因為我們看到這篇報導裡面有提到，去年颱風來襲之前，在雲林的果菜市場發現很多批葉菜類蔬菜的農藥檢驗都超標，追查之後，發現原來是為了搶收。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:33:46.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:33:55.395000+08:00","text":"這表示外籍移工可能不知道農藥的管控期間，或者是不知道自己是不是用了正確的農藥。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:33:55.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:34:03.559000+08:00","text":"他們成為實際的農業經營者之後，能夠去農藥行買農藥嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:34:03.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:34:12.763000+08:00","text":"在對農藥或者肥料的使用上沒有辦法受到管控，如果發生食安問題的時候，我們要怎樣去溯源？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T15:34:14.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:34:23.840000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，今年年初的菜價低迷大部分原因是因為去年颱風的關係，過度集中種植導致的。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T15:34:26.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:34:53.968000+08:00","text":"其次，針對您所提的移工本身，現在是用合法掩護非法，他們是用類似分潤的概念，就是合法農地和經營主體提供給這些非法移工做這些經營，所以我們現在已經掌握，從批發市場拍賣的時候，我們就會特別去注意他本身的經銷人，包括實際在拍賣的人，是不是有問題的人。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T15:34:54.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:35:15.863000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，在產地面我們也是跟我們的農民講，有任何這種把自己土地分潤給那些外籍移工去種植，然後收入由他們收的情形，我們是嚴格的，未來我們所有的補助、所有的救助都不會及於他們，這個部分我們會加強；第三個就是我們考慮在適當的時間點啟動聯合稽查。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:35:19.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T15:35:45.232000+08:00","text":"是，剛剛部長講的是其中一個狀況，因為我們看網路媒體的報導，除了分潤之外，他們還有一個模式，就是他們是真正包租土地的耕作者，所以他們也造成了人地競爭，就是他跟我們臺灣的青農在競租農地，也造成我們的青農在耕作上土地的價格可能會提高，種種衍生的問題也希望農業部要重視、了解。","quality":0.715},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T15:35:45.732000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:35:49.160571+08:00","text":"是，我們會積極處理這個議題。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳委員素月","start":"2026-04-24T15:35:49.460571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:35:51.746286+08:00","text":"謝謝部長、謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T15:35:52.046286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:35:58.903429+08:00","text":"謝謝陳素月委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各相關部會首長備詢。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T15:35:59.203429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:36:13.489143+08:00","text":"報告院會，我們即將休息10分鐘，謝謝邱若華委員、王育敏委員、鍾佳濱委員、顏寬恒委員陪同我們一起進行上半場的質詢，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T15:36:13.789143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:36:14.932000+08:00","text":"現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T15:36:15.232000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:36:16.374857+08:00","text":"休息（15時36分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T15:36:16.674857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T15:36:18.389143+08:00","text":"繼續開會（15時46分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}