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因為大型的冷庫不好經營他要跨區域 跨品項 還要跨內外銷我們屏東那麼多包罩的國品我們的產季也不到半年另外半年那個冷庫不能閒置所以他閒置的時候沒有外銷的時候當然他做內銷 內銷給誰給全聯 給家樂福他們的國品也是需要冷鏈的所以大型的集中的冷庫不用多但是院長部長"},{"start":526.153,"end":548.26,"text":"還有沒有出到冷庫在計畫當中產地型的冷鏈系統這是我們在建構整個冷鏈網絡裡面一個非常重要的是產地型的冷鏈它最大的收益者就是農民因為農民只要有產地的冷鏈只要是小型的它可以解決田間樂它可以讓產品可以在傳統市場它可以讓運輸本來5天它可以放到10天"},{"start":548.88,"end":560.331,"text":"我們的芋圓,我們屏東各地的芋圓,沒有太多芋圓,芋圓都不會那麼漂亮,但是如果五天煩惱沒收到,你就滅掉所以說風修的時候,煩惱就等你下去,如果這個介紹不太好,你放三天你就撞不掉,所以院長知道齁"},{"start":566.337,"end":580.722,"text":"所以產地的冷庫對農民很重要但是產地的冷庫他沒有辦法跨品項他沒有辦法跨區域他甚至不能跨內外交他要跨什麼平常有生產季的時候兩個月四個月農用平常怎樣商用"},{"start":581.77,"end":604.858,"text":"讓人家長期負擔、升遷期負擔、做團善的讓他拿來放但是如果讓人家拿來放做商用,你不能斷電那如果預防斷電,陳部長,冷庫如果預防斷電,斷電會壞掉啊?要用什麼?要用備援嗎?你是認為用發電機備援比較好還是用儲能?儲能設備儲能,但是儲能很貴,多數農民的斷電系統就是柴油發電機"},{"start":606.178,"end":629.232,"text":"那現在如果我們要廣設這些產地型的冷庫,可不可以把儲能列為它的附屬設施?以我個人的判斷應該是可行的一個方式應該是可行的,部長,滾部長,如果儲能業者他除了做冷庫的不氮電設施,他也可以兼做當地區域的光電的儲能來調節電網,你覺得有沒有幫助我們電網的韌性?"},{"start":632.054,"end":653.997,"text":"是有幫助啊 是的他如果參與我們那個蓄量對 院長請指示經濟部跟農業部就我們農地設的冷庫它所附設的儲能是不是可以同時間做我們電網當中調節韌性的儲能好不好農業設施包括這個冷卻設施它已經附屬是可以發展這個光電"},{"start":655.178,"end":670.236,"text":"已經可以發展光電如果加上光電的儲藏只能用在頭頂上的它不能用別人的它加上儲能的話會更好好 那就是院長的意思那兩位部長可以回去研究一下好不好我們會來仔細的規劃來再往下看所以現在我們往下說電網"},{"start":671.701,"end":689.048,"text":"院長過去我們的台電它的電網是它做發電端也是它做大概只有兩位數的發電廠用戶端上百萬上千萬它的電網的膚色就要配合的都市計畫暴露所以過去台電它的用電戶的電網很順"},{"start":692.277,"end":711.271,"text":"路開到哪裡?住宅區、工業區、商業區開到哪裡?它電就送到哪裡?那這個電網設施包括什麼?一次變電所、二次變電所、配電所還有匯線但是現在發電的地方現在不是只有二位數、兩位數的電廠現在很多光電廠都在哪裡?不在都市計劃區域"},{"start":712.712,"end":738.168,"text":"這些電廠台電還要用電網去把他的電接過來所以台電就沒有辦法按照道路規劃他坐餐廳沒幾條路啊電網要怎麼設往往設的潰線設的深壓站光電者就開始搶那個配線的容量院長知道齁那怎麼解決怎麼解決解決的方式就是怎樣他有些弊端就是先唱先贏先唱先贏造成很多的浪費"},{"start":739.329,"end":762.953,"text":"光電的開發商,他可能為了要搶得虧線,他要先到台電去放保證金如果時間到,他沒有辦法整合,他就要讓給第二名,然後他的保證就沒收了那第三名沒有拿到虧線的,明明整合好了,沒有虧線他也沒有辦法發電所以可不可以請院長指示部長,台電可不可以先去預化往下看就是說這個虧線容量的搶奪往下看"},{"start":763.473,"end":769.129,"text":"就是能夠超前部署,這樣的話我們土地開發井然有序,公共設施按時到位"},{"start":770.56,"end":794.856,"text":"部長,我剛剛跟你提過,您覺得台電是不是要為了未來的電網的韌性,我們對於發電端的電網的配置要及早做規劃,讓這些發電業者可以有所遵循,部長覺得怎麼樣?我們嘗試的來努力看看,至少從某一個區域先開始因為這個範圍實在是太大了,就是說這些光電業者"},{"start":795.697,"end":816.353,"text":"他什麼時候會在哪裡開發,然後開發跟地主談的怎麼樣部長我知道,你講的我都想過,這個業者要去想腦筋,但是可以開發各種不同的發電方式的都很有限啦現在哪裡開可以發都有限都算得出來,往下看我先考一下我們的孔部長,燃料電池儲能跟水利,它是屬於發電裝置還是電網裝置"},{"start":821.34,"end":826.005,"text":"除能本身它根本不會發電,它是屬於電網裝置但是水力發電過去認為是發電裝置但是它現在的抽蓄水力發電開始調節電網,它也可以設為電網裝置對不對"},{"start":836.297,"end":863.357,"text":"我們現在的燃料電池,燃料電池是什麼?燃料電池是用LNG去的只是它不是透過燃燒,它透過化學反應來產生電力它是發電裝置,它也可以成為什麼?儲能裝置,就是成為電網裝置好,那往下看所以我們能源轉型2.0,電網韌性很重要我們在發展自主能源有光電、風電跟地熱我們的這個兼具電網跟發電的水力或燃料電池未來會起一具的發展"},{"start":863.777,"end":889.596,"text":"那至於氫能跟儲能也要事先配置但是我們知道現在燃料電池它發的單價很貴可是它有一個好處它在目前的都市計畫裡面它比儲能還容易找到位置放所以我們可能不知道未來在都會地區我可能不見得能夠放儲能但是我可以放什麼我可以放燃料電池那燃料電池它既然可以發電是不是可以列入台電的電網跟發電裝置的設備當中"},{"start":892.978,"end":915.152,"text":"是可以參與嘛 對不對因為他這個是表後的那我們現在是有一個他設置裝備的時候我們是有補助金額然後每一度事實上也有一些補助讓他覺得部長我知道你是講現在的辦法我現在要求的是你規劃未來新能源不要等到開始做了才發現法規沒有準備好"},{"start":915.492,"end":933.302,"text":"我可以跟你預告未來很多傳統都市地區不能設置發電廠的它都能設置燃料電池但它需要天然氣管那如果你天然氣管沒有裝它就不能發這樣會造成我們電網跟發電裝置的不匹配所以我希望說未來往下看就是說不要再說我這個地方"},{"start":934.863,"end":962.101,"text":"電網沒有設置連天然氣管也沒有設置那未來有人設的燃料電池他想成為供電跟台電來合作也做不到你瞭解嗎所以最後的結論最後結論時間的關係第一請農業部檢討法令同意農地上冷庫的負能設施剛剛答應了請經濟部檢討法令冷庫附屬的負能設施得參與台電的設電以最後有研發跟報告報告我就不講了特別是一個月請書面報告來 謝謝謝謝 麻煩請行政院"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}