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下次會再許願我也相信現階段的跟過去的採購概念上應該有很大的差異對 尤其不同的對象 不同的品項 不同的技術所以我會跟工程會好好地研究請他們迅速就這個部分來提出那也向委員來請教好 謝謝那因為我們延續我們上次討論的關稅的議題那就是可能很多委員都問過其實到我們現在ART MOU還是沒有收到"},{"start":127.478,"end":145.669,"text":"那沒有收到當然我們相信也有很多的原因跟這個狀況那不曉得有沒有哪一些就是ART、MOU的內容是可以說在沒有牽扯到機密的情況之下等等是不是可以先送到我們這些委員來做一些參考"},{"start":147.368,"end":169.406,"text":"談判團隊回來的時候我們有公布了一些內容MOU的部分啊MOU現在只有就是美國因為官網上有公布他的那個flagship那因為完整的他還在行政上他沒有做行政上的公布那我們的ART也算確定了嗎還沒有因為他還在做法律工具的轉換"},{"start":171.308,"end":197.706,"text":"如果有就儘快 牽扯到這種談判機密的情況你那邊又啟動了301的調查我知道我知道 我現在是說如果可以嘛 在某些的一些可揭露的資訊不然我現在都是瞎子摸象就是摸不太清楚談判團隊回來的時候我們有公開一部分那部分現在還不會確定但是我們依照那個內容正在跟美方確認也確保我們在阿特當中所得到的待遇"},{"start":198.246,"end":227.637,"text":"沒錯啦 因為現在ART啦 122 122也看起來也是會有問題根據這前一陣子法院的問題所以我想這個目前301的準備還是一個很重要的一環再下一頁那因為上次我還是很代表廠商就是說整個整合資訊的窗口查證那上次政府業長也答應我說要做一個整合的然後是在這個OTN的網站可是我看了很久還是沒有"},{"start":229.453,"end":248.59,"text":"還是沒有,所以這個再麻煩,因為我想大家行動內閣也不可以很落差,還是一樣,沒有什麼改變就是把ART啦,然後這些東西放上來,就這樣子而已但是我要查一些新的關稅者,我還是要各部會各部會去看,而且你們放的都只是新聞稿跟文件所以還是希望做一個資訊系統的"},{"start":250.612,"end":279.173,"text":"揭露跟整合如果經貿辦公室做不了就請經濟部做經貿辦公室主要還是談判相關的議題因為上次政府院長答應我的經濟部做上次專報在二月初的時候到現在事實上沒有新的確定的內容變更都在原來的狀態裡面那美方是在做法律因為有些貨物品像是食物然後現在業務就是食"},{"start":279.833,"end":304.425,"text":"然後有一些蝴蝶仁本來是進口到那邊是零然後現在變成食物等等我說讓它維持一致的資訊嘛因為資訊的呈現還是希望real time跟正確好不好我請光部長這個應該可以啦好不好來下一頁那上次也是一個問題啊就是我們那一個2.5N在我們建廠的時候晶片輸美嘛對不對那個N是產能"},{"start":305.822,"end":317.123,"text":"所以上次我在問的是問了四次就是2.5N然後之後你建廠之後量產的1.5N所以那個N那個產能我今天就給到底是"},{"start":318.277,"end":341.181,"text":"我們台灣政府認定?還是台積電認定?還是美國政府認定?這個我們還在跟美國協商當中因為他等到他232公布以後他就確認因為他現在232還沒有公布但是我們那個N你期待是誰來認定?就是我們心中先不管美國對我們最有利我們跟他討論當然是希望用產能"},{"start":342.612,"end":355.59,"text":"那個產能是誰認定我們跟他共同因為我們去投資廠商以後那廠商投資了多少錢可能創造多少的產能這個部分雙方要有一個確認"},{"start":357.148,"end":381.204,"text":"好啦我是希望是說我們台灣政府在這一個產能的認定可以大一點強韌一點這個是我的期待我們一定爭取最最最最優秀那你就給我的答案就是我也獲得答案嘛就是我們台灣政府對不對跟我們台積電講好只有一個好的數字然後堅決跟美國去做好的談判是不是這樣子好來下一個"},{"start":383.518,"end":399.424,"text":"那我為什麼要問這一個因為現在川普又在說一件事他把50%的晶片的產能移到美國然後他也說了伍特尼克說美光要投資2000億我們台積電有1650億之後他說台灣會再追加5000億也就是我們講的2500億加2500億的信保"},{"start":408.576,"end":415.428,"text":"剛剛說這樣加起來是一兆 接近一兆那剛剛這個 這川普講的不是我講的 魯范尼克講的所以我說"},{"start":417.194,"end":438.232,"text":"因為最重要還是根據MOU嘛我們MOU怎麼簽我們就照MOU來簽所以他講的是騙我們的嗎不是那個是他還是他的期待我不曉得他是怎麼樣的依據我們就沒有判但是我們就是針對我們跟他簽MOU因為那個數字多起來都很合理因為1650億的台積電合理2500億加2500億5000億的美金也合理"},{"start":444.236,"end":471.345,"text":"1600億那個已經公佈了我知道啊,5000億他說的啊,魯特尼克說的啊好,那沒關係,我現在回過頭來問一件事喔就是說我們當時在想蘇美這麼多出口的產值來講的話我們的半導體晶片加上衍生性的產品大概是佔了76%左右對不對,最大宗所以那時候我們怕被他課稅"},{"start":473.37,"end":490.721,"text":"因為川普也威脅說你不把他移過來不到這邊設草就可以重稅我現在這一張的問題就是部長因為可能院長太過分來問部長半導體晶片的課稅怎麼課?說實在的話他也還沒有講清楚他說現在"},{"start":495.712,"end":513.174,"text":"現在半島零晶片是還不用課稅啊零嘛對不對上次我們回答過零那現在講整個流程我要告訴你說因為我在資通訊才坐太久我幫各位上課好了來下一頁如果我是回答下晶片下去給了台積電"},{"start":514.807,"end":543.033,"text":"那台積電做好完輝達的晶片之後他是進到輝達的貨倉所以整個輝達的貨倉那整個都還是輝達的貨輝達的貨進到美國根據美國關稅他就根據他的IPO也就是說你現在的Owner是誰嘛進口商是誰所以是輝達的貨是輝達要付關稅好even是Google下單給聯發科做TPU然後再叫TSMC來出來到紅海組裝還是Google的server"},{"start":545.191,"end":568.926,"text":"進去進口還是Google要付關稅跟晶片的owner因為主要是進口商是誰跟院長報告進口商是誰所以呢基本上來講的話台灣都是這種模式尤其在我們的高科技廠台灣不會有走這種台灣不會走這種DTP關稅或交貨"},{"start":572.488,"end":588.445,"text":"這種就是賣方要付稅,付完完稅之後再到買方去那我們台灣都是上一張我們是代工對,不是,百分對代工的話就是百分之百是上面這一張的一個模式所以,克不到水所以他如果要加裝我們不管"},{"start":589.506,"end":614.928,"text":"半導體晶片或者是伺服器等等組裝的產品除了低階啦低階的話我們這些不管像NB伺服器它反正就在德州美墨家這邊就設廠了不管是偽創、鴻海、仁寶對不對,鴻基這些所以我的意思就是說不管它關稅晶片、半導體晶片怎麼課它就是課不到因為它就是必須仰賴我們生產製造"},{"start":618.551,"end":630.843,"text":"目前來講的話比如說對本關稅的課法的確是課進口商的但是進口商因為他被課了如果提高稅的話他會反映給他的代工商"},{"start":632.235,"end":658.45,"text":"我台積電就把駕照回到你NVIDIA、Google、Apple所以應該是NVIDIA、Google、Apple這些去push川普叫他不要亂搞所以我的意思是說最後的結論就是我們的半導體太強 不用讓太多 強勢一點要是我是部長 我真的不讓"},{"start":659.755,"end":683.012,"text":"因為我在半導體產業在資通訊那麼久所以我們基本上是尊重廠商他因為商業上的原因到美國去布局這個是我們尊重所以為什麼要導出這件事情就是說我們要跟國人講的我們半導體根本不怕你瞌睡所以這個剩下只是商業雙方的行為"},{"start":684.281,"end":702.947,"text":"對不對但是因為我們的不可替代性沒有辦法替代太高了所以基本上就不要害怕那下一個重點就是既然我們半高體不害怕蘇美那麼多產值不害怕的情況之下我覺得我們跳到農那一張農業就是我們在一些農業的一些的"},{"start":711.789,"end":733.622,"text":"不管是什麼樣子的方式我是覺得都不應該讓不要讓因為他拿我們半導體拿我們這些高級是沒者不要讓太多像剛剛很多委員就問了馬鈴薯滋亂很多馬鈴薯滋亂是真的很多那我的意思是說剛剛院長也講了一顆一顆查驗不對嘛食藥署說2%嘛"},{"start":737.405,"end":750.396,"text":"對,百分之二的查驗剛剛鍾嘉斌委員有做球給你們講了一大堆那我的問題也很單純就是假設我查驗在以前的話可能是整批貨櫃就退了"},{"start":752.142,"end":772.343,"text":"那現在在他說我食藥署的這個應該是署長他YouTube裡頭就講他說沒有我們一顆查出來有FIRE我們就退一顆我覺得不太對啦我覺得應該是退整櫃就是保障國人的健康優先啦所以檢驗超標的話那是整櫃會退"},{"start":773.164,"end":786.395,"text":"對啦 我是說他的節檢檢驗 超標就會退一顆都不要 因為我覺得沒有超標如果看到裡面有發芽的那麼我們就要來進行農業部後續的工作反正現在就是"},{"start":788.039,"end":793.283,"text":"絕對不是院長講的一顆一顆驗嘛那是前端時間暫停好不好那個我們請農業部長上備選擇好不好不好意思2%那10%那當然不是一顆一顆驗那是抽驗2%到10%"},{"start":804.312,"end":824.032,"text":"那如果沒有超標那這個就沒有問題但沒有超標裡面如果看到有芽它會進到農業部農業部就會業者剛剛我有聽完整個那些的回答質詢10%那個絕對不是一顆一顆是後端的這個部分好啦 因為院長講話講太快了嘛就會被作文章因為沒有時間讓我們這樣好好的講"},{"start":825.891,"end":853.732,"text":"好沒問題但是我是覺得國內還是覺得這些東西的毒素殘留還是非常的不安全對我來講不過我剛剛委員報告很簡單的講沒關係下一個議題下一個議題的話就是說整個在ART3.33就第三點三條的38項規定台灣的狂牛證BS1相關法規不適用於美國野牛這個是不是很恐怖啊"},{"start":857.903,"end":886.486,"text":"這個不是我寫的我要跟委員報告就是我們針對美國部分的BSA部分他已經被認定是就是BSE的可忽略的國家那可忽略的國家的部分他的瘤的部分的所有的相關的這些產品是可以進來但是我們國家還是保齡的部分的品項是不能進來的所以跟這個野瘤的部分那野瘤如果傳染到肉瘤的部分的話那美國那邊就會被判其他的一個做法"},{"start":887.106,"end":914.845,"text":"這是野牛協會2026年2月19號發布的官方新聞稿他說在台美對貿ART當中明確規定台灣的狂牛政相應法規不適用於美國野牛所以我只要是美國野牛隨便進第一個美國野牛是不會進來因為一般的進口像我們台灣的牛肉自給率只有4.6所以大部分的牛肉如果從美國進來的時候都是他們專用的肉牛沒關係來下一個"},{"start":916.502,"end":935.861,"text":"所以我是覺得說還有很多東西我是覺得不應該是去讓這件事情可能在台灣這邊再嚴守一點這是我們全民的健康下一頁再往下我覺得這一陣子我收到很多這樣子不管動物用藥、塑膠袋滋潤、醫材價格然後經貿半霸凌"},{"start":951.963,"end":952.163,"text":"好 謝謝洪議員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:00.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:19:03.821000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席，有請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:03.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:19:04.941000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:14.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:19:14.143000+08:00","text":"洪委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:14.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:19:15.423000+08:00","text":"院長好，辛苦了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:15.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:19:16.103000+08:00","text":"這是最後一場。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:18.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:19:58.528000+08:00","text":"在我們延續上次的討論之前，我先跟院長許個願，因為我在交大畢業之後就投入軟體業界，然後是資通訊，所以在很多園區的大廠，不管是他們的資訊系統、政府的採購系統，我大概都做過，但是在採購法這一塊，其實我們資訊服務系統的採購跟我們一般造橋鋪路不太一樣，所以這二十幾年來，我們一直希望採購法可以針對資訊服務系統採購去做一個專門的規範。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:19:58.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:20:32.296000+08:00","text":"我上次質詢陳金德主委的時候，因為先前葉哲良副主委有做資訊服務系統指引，所以在年底前的修法，我們也希望把它納入資訊服務專章，這個再請院長幫忙一下，因為我覺得這個對AI行動內閣是很重要的，也對政府資訊系統是很重要的一環，這是許願，下次會再許願。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:20:32.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:20:45.645000+08:00","text":"我也相信現階段跟過去的採購在概念上應該有很大的差別，尤其是不同對象、不同品項、不同技術，所以我會跟工程會好好的研究，請他們迅速就這個部分來提出，也向委員來請教。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:20:48.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:20:48.566000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:20:48.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:17.649000+08:00","text":"我們延續上次討論的關稅議題，可能很多委員都問過，其實我們到現在ART、MOU還是沒有收到，沒有收到我相信有很多的原因和狀況，不曉得有沒有哪一些ART、MOU的內容可以在沒有牽扯到機密的情況之下，先送到我們委員這邊來做一些參考？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:19.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:21.590000+08:00","text":"談判團隊回來的時候，我們有公布了一些內容。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:21.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:22.590000+08:00","text":"有文本，ART的部分有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:22.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:24.032000+08:00","text":"MOU的部分呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:25.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:35.421000+08:00","text":"MOU現在美國官網上有公布他的Fact Sheet，因為完整的還在行政上，他沒有做行政上的公布。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:35.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:39.104000+08:00","text":"那我們ART也算確定了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:39.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:39.244000+08:00","text":"還沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:39.244000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:40.244000+08:00","text":"應該還沒有嘛？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:39.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:41.406000+08:00","text":"因為他正在做法律工具的轉換。對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:43.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:46.970000+08:00","text":"如果有就儘快，在不牽扯到談判機密的情況下……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:47.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:48.852000+08:00","text":"因為又啟動了301調查……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:49.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:50.113000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:50.113000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:52.514000+08:00","text":"我們預計可能到7月……","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:52.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:21:59.099000+08:00","text":"如果可以，在某些可揭露的資訊，不然我們現在都是瞎子摸象，摸不太清楚。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:21:59.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:22:09.686000+08:00","text":"談判團隊回來之後，我們有公開一部分，那個部分現在還不確定，但是我們依照那個內容正在跟美方確認，也確保我們在ART當中所得到的待遇。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:22:10.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:22:22.230000+08:00","text":"沒錯，因為現在ART、122，122看起來也是會有問題，根據前一陣子法院的問題，所以目前301的準備還是很重要的一環。是。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:22:25.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:04.213000+08:00","text":"我還是要代表廠商，關於整合資訊窗口查證，上次鄭副院長也答應我要做一個整合的，在OTN網站，可是我看了很久還是沒有，所以這個再麻煩，AI行動內閣也不能很掉漆，還是一樣沒有什麼改變，就是把ART這些東西放上來，就這樣子而已，但是我要查一些新的關稅還是要各部會、各部會去看，而且你們放的都只是新聞稿和文件，所以我還是希望做一個資訊系統的揭露和整合。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:04.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:07.395000+08:00","text":"如果經貿辦公室做不來，就請經濟部做，好不好？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:09.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:13.180000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為經貿辦公室主要還是談判的相關議題，如果你要……","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:13.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:17.643000+08:00","text":"因為這是上次鄭副院長答應我的，不然就是經濟部做，好不好？","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:18.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:27.470000+08:00","text":"上次專報從2月初的時候到現在，事實上沒有新的確定內容變更，都在原來的狀態裡面，美方是在做法律工具的轉換。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:28.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:44.499000+08:00","text":"因為有些貨物品項是15%，現在122又是10%，像蝴蝶蘭本來進口到那邊是零，現在又變成15%等等，我認為要讓它維持一致的資訊，因為資訊的呈現還是希望realtime及正確，好不好？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:44.499000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:45.499000+08:00","text":"我們檢討更新。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:45.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:23:46.220000+08:00","text":"龔部長，這個應該可以吧？好。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:23:47.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:14.581000+08:00","text":"再來也是上次那個問題，就是2.5N在我們建廠的時候晶片輸美，那個「N」是產能，上次我問了4次，就是2.5N，建廠之後量產的1.5N，所以那個「N」、那個產能，到底是我們臺灣政府認定，還是台積電認定，還是美國政府認定？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:15.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:23.411000+08:00","text":"這個我們還在跟美國協商當中，因為等到232公布以後，他就會確認了，因為現在232還沒有公布。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:23.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:26.193000+08:00","text":"但是那個「N」你期待是誰來認定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:26.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:30.318000+08:00","text":"就是我們心中，先不管美國，對我們最有利……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:31.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:33.161000+08:00","text":"我們跟他討論當然是希望用產能認定，產值……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:34.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:35.934000+08:00","text":"不是，那個產能是誰認定？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:35.934000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:37.356000+08:00","text":"我們跟他共同。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:37.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:37.796000+08:00","text":"你們跟他共同？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:39.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:47.590000+08:00","text":"因為我們去投資廠商以後，廠商投資了多少錢，可能創造多少的產能，這個部分雙方要有一個確認。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:49.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:24:55.992000+08:00","text":"我希望臺灣政府在產能的認定可以大一點、強韌一點，這個是我的期待，好不好？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:24:56.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:00.255000+08:00","text":"是，我們一定爭取對廠商最優惠的……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:01.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:02.096000+08:00","text":"好，我也獲得答案嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:02.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:11.723000+08:00","text":"就是我們臺灣政府跟台積電講好一個好的數字，堅決跟美國去做好的談判，是不是這樣子？是。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:12.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:16.999000+08:00","text":"好，下一個，我為什麼要問這一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:16.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:42.099000+08:00","text":"因為現在川普又在說一件事，他要把50%晶片的產能移到美國，對吧，然後盧特尼克說美光要投資2,000億，我們台積電有1,650億，之後，他說臺灣會再追加5,000億，也就是我們講的2,500億加2,500億的信保，他說這樣加起來是接近1兆。沒有。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:45.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:47.428000+08:00","text":"不是，這不是我講的，是盧特尼克講的，所以我說兩位的看法……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:49.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:54.759000+08:00","text":"因為最重要還是根據MOU，我們MOU怎麼簽，我們就照MOU來走。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:54.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:56.340000+08:00","text":"所以他講的是騙我們的嘛？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:57.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:58.162000+08:00","text":"不是，那個是他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:25:58.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:25:59.002000+08:00","text":"還是他的期待？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:00.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:06.529000+08:00","text":"我不曉得他是怎麼樣的依據，我們就沒有辦法……但是我們就是針對我們跟他簽的MOU。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:06.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:08.831000+08:00","text":"因為數字兜起來都很合理，1,650億的台積電，合理嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:09.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:10.212000+08:00","text":"2,500億加2,500億，5,000億的美金也合理。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:16.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:16.916000+08:00","text":"1,650億那個已經公布了。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:17.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:18.897000+08:00","text":"我知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:19.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:21.138000+08:00","text":"5,000億，他說的，盧特尼克說的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:21.138000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:22.298000+08:00","text":"2,500億加2,500億，那個是完全不一樣的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:22.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:39.483000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，我現在回過頭來問一件事，我們當時在想輸美這麼多出口的產值來講，我們的半導體晶片加上衍生性的產品大概是占了76%左右。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:39.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:40.483000+08:00","text":"對，出口。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:39.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:41.384000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:41.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:26:49.913000+08:00","text":"最大宗，所以那時候我們怕被他課稅，因為川普也威脅說你不把它移過來，不到我這邊設廠，我就課以重稅。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:26:49.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:00.120000+08:00","text":"我現在這一張的問題就是，部長，因為問院長太過分，來問部長好了，半導體晶片的課稅怎麼課？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:00.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:01.981000+08:00","text":"說實在話，他也還沒有講清楚。什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:01.981000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:02.981000+08:00","text":"他沒有講清楚。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:02.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:02.701000+08:00","text":"不是，我說現在。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:07.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:09.795000+08:00","text":"現在半導體晶片還不用課稅。零嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:10.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:10.616000+08:00","text":"對不對？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:10.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:14.020000+08:00","text":"上次我們回答過零，現在講整個流程……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:14.020000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:27:15.020000+08:00","text":"因為他要符合……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:27:14.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:28:04.216000+08:00","text":"我要告訴你，因為我在資通訊產業做太久，我幫各位上課好了，如果我是輝達，下晶片下去給了台積電，台積電做好輝達的晶片之後，他是進到輝達的貨艙，所以整個輝達的貨艙都還是輝達的貨，輝達的貨進到美國，根據美國關稅就是根據他的IPO，也就是說你現在的owner是誰、進口商是誰，所以輝達的貨是輝達要付關稅，even是Google下單給聯發科做TPU，然後再到TSMC來，出來到鴻海組裝，還是Google的server，進去進口還是Google要付關稅。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:28:04.216000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:28:05.216000+08:00","text":"這晶片不是最終產品。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:28:04.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:28:12+08:00","text":"跟晶片的owner，因為主要是進口商是誰，跟院長報告，進口商是誰。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:28:12+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:28:13+08:00","text":"是最後的那個。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:28:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:28:30.294000+08:00","text":"好，所以基本上來講，臺灣都是這種模式，尤其在我們的高科技廠，臺灣不會走這種DDP（完稅後交貨），這種就是賣方要付稅，付完稅之後再到買方去，我們臺灣都是上一張簡報的方式。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:28:30.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:28:30.835000+08:00","text":"我們是代工端。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:28:32.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:06.908000+08:00","text":"對，代工的話就是百分百是上面這一張的模式，所以課不到稅，他如果要加徵我們，不管半導體晶片或者是伺服器等等組裝的產品，除非低階，低階的話，我們這些不管像NB、伺服器，反正就在德州、美、墨、加這邊設廠了，不管是緯創、鴻海、仁寶、宏碁等這些，所以我的意思就是，不管他關稅怎麼課，他就是課不到，因為他就是必須仰賴我們生產製造。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:10.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:22.823000+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前來講，比如對等關稅的課法的確是課進口商，但是進口商因為他被課，如果提高稅的話，他會反映給他的代工商。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:24.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:28.737000+08:00","text":"不會，台積電就把價再加回到NVIDIA、Google、Apple。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:28.737000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:29.737000+08:00","text":"不是，因為台積電……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:29.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:36.742000+08:00","text":"所以應該是NVIDIA、Google、Apple這些去push川普，叫他不要亂搞嘛！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:36.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:39.123000+08:00","text":"他們有在push。對嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:39.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:29:53.977000+08:00","text":"所以我最後的結論就是我們的半導體太強，不用讓太多，強勢一點，要是我是部長，我真的不讓，因為我在半導體產業，在資通訊產業那麼久……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:29:55.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:30:02.343000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們基本上是尊重廠商因為商業上的原因到美國去布局，這個是我們尊重也協助的。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:30:03.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:30:17.421000+08:00","text":"明白，所以我為什麼要導出這件事情，我們要跟國人講的就是，我們的半導體根本不怕你課稅，所以這個是商業上的雙方行為，對不對？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:30:17.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:30:24.424000+08:00","text":"但是因為我們的不可替代性，沒有辦法替代，不可替代性太高了，所以基本上就不要害怕。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:30:25.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:30:54.055000+08:00","text":"下一個重點就是，既然我們半導體不害怕、輸美那麼多產值不害怕的情況之下，我們跳到農業的那張簡報，在農業的部分，不管是什麼樣的方式，我是覺得都不應該讓，不要讓，因為它拿我們半導體、拿我們這些高級製程沒轍，不要讓太多。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:30:55.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:09.405000+08:00","text":"像剛剛很多委員就問了，馬鈴薯之亂很多，馬鈴薯之亂是真的很多，我的意思是，剛剛院長也講了，一顆、一顆查驗，不對嘛，食藥署說2%嘛，對不對？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:09.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:36.535000+08:00","text":"2%的查驗，剛剛鍾佳濱委員也做球給你們，講了一大堆，我的問題也很單純，假設是以前查驗出來的話，可能是整批貨櫃都退了，但現在食藥署署長在YouTube裡頭就講，他說：沒有，我們查出來一顆有發芽，我們就退一顆。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:36.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:41.420000+08:00","text":"我覺得不太對，我覺得應該是退整櫃，就是保障國人的健康優先……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:42.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:44.323000+08:00","text":"如果檢驗超標的話，那是整個會退。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:44.323000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:48.767000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，是依檢驗標準，超標的話……","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:48.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:49.388000+08:00","text":"茄鹼檢驗超標的話就會退。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:49.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:50.989000+08:00","text":"一顆都不要，因為我覺得……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:50.989000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:51.989000+08:00","text":"沒有超標，就等於是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:51.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:31:57.214000+08:00","text":"沒有超標，如果看到裡面有發芽的，那麼我們就要來進行農業部後續的工作。好。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:31:57.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:00.760000+08:00","text":"反正現在絕對不是院長講的一顆、一顆驗嘛，2%嘛，因為食藥署說……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:00.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:01.200000+08:00","text":"反過來，那是前端。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:01.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:02.621000+08:00","text":"時間暫停，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:02.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:03.222000+08:00","text":"我們請農業部部長上備詢臺，好嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:03.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:03.942000+08:00","text":"不好意思。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:03.942000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:04.942000+08:00","text":"好，請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:04.942000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:05.942000+08:00","text":"好，時間繼續。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:04.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:23.900000+08:00","text":"2%跟10%，那當然不是一顆、一顆驗，那是抽驗2%到10%，抽驗結果如果沒有超標，這個就沒有問題，但沒有超標，如果看到有芽，會進到農業部的部分，農業部就會請業者……","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:24.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:26.643000+08:00","text":"有，剛剛我有聽完整個質詢的回答……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:28.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:30.807000+08:00","text":"是、是，所以2%到10%，那個絕對不是一顆、一顆，是後端的這個部分。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:31.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:34.371000+08:00","text":"好啦，因為院長講話講太快了嘛，就會被做文章。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:34.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:36.032000+08:00","text":"不是，因為沒有時間讓我們這樣好好地講。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:37.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:38.431000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:38.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:45.436000+08:00","text":"但我是覺得國人還是覺得這些東西的毒素殘留還是非常地不安全，對我來講……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:45.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:32:47.538000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，簡單來講，所有的……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:32:47.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:33:05.572000+08:00","text":"沒關係，下一個議題，ART第3.3條第38項規定，臺灣的狂牛症（BSE）相關法規不適用於美國野牛，這個是不是很恐怖？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:33:09.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:33:10.404000+08:00","text":"這個不是我寫的，這是ART……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:33:11.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:33:38.466000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，就是我們針對美國BSE的部分，它已經被認定是BSE可忽略的國家，所以它的牛的所有相關產品是可以進來的，但是我們國家還是保留部分品項是不能進來的，所以有關野牛的部分，野牛如果傳染到肉牛，美國那邊就會被判其他的做法。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:33:39.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:33:53.936000+08:00","text":"這是野牛協會2026年2月19號發布的官方新聞稿，他說在臺美對貿協定ART當中，明確規定臺灣的狂牛症相應法規不適用於美國野牛，所以只要是美國野牛就可以隨便進……","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-24T16:33:54.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:05.184000+08:00","text":"美國野牛不會進來，因為一般的進口，像我們臺灣的牛肉自給率只有4.6%，所以大部分從美國進來的牛肉，都是他們專用的肉牛。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:05.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:06.625000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:06.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:16.210000+08:00","text":"下一個，還有很多東西，我是覺得不應該去讓這些事情，臺灣這邊要再嚴守一點，這是我們全民的健康。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:18.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:27.841000+08:00","text":"再來，這一陣子我收到很多的民怨，不管是動物用藥、塑膠袋之亂、醫材價格，然後經貿辦霸凌、桶裝瓦斯、瀝青缺料等等，我收到很多民怨，因為我也兼桃園地方黨部主委，所以我希望這些民怨可以越來越少，讓我們的國家可以越來越好。","quality":0.309},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:28.341000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:33.198143+08:00","text":"我們必須加強說明，把誤會都解開，謝謝。好。","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:33.498143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:40.355286+08:00","text":"謝謝洪毓祥委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、各位內閣列席閣員，謝謝。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:40.655286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:34:55.798143+08:00","text":"報告院會，本日排定質詢委員已經質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢，4月28日（星期二）上午9點繼續進行經濟組之質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:34:56.098143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:35:06.955286+08:00","text":"今天再次感謝桃園市選區的邱若華委員從頭到尾陪著我們一起參與今天的質詢，現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-24T16:35:07.255286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-24T16:35:08.398143+08:00","text":"休息（16時35分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}