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江副院長 各位委員先進今天行政院就114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案編制情形來大院進行報告並被質詢以下僅就本次追加預算所需經費的必要性及編制概況做重點的說明"},{"start":1846.035,"end":1871.02,"text":"本市追加預算稅出追加878億元將以原預算收支勝於予以彌平不會增加債務以兼顧財政的穩健主要內容有以下數項第一 調整原住民足淨法補償24億元"},{"start":1874.008,"end":1897.556,"text":"原住民族保留地淨法補償條例於113年6月24日修正公佈補償標準由每公頃3萬元增調為6萬元修法後所需的經費倍增嚴重地排擠了原住民族委員會相關的業務該會勉勵地檢討仍無法全述的那邊"},{"start":1899.781,"end":1927.137,"text":"114年度當中就有所不足歷經大院以及朝野各黨團與本院多次的協調在113年11月7日會商也完備了雙方的法定程序那麼決議將循預算法第91條財政紀律法第5條的法定原則雙方協調可循財源辦理追加預算予以支應"},{"start":1928.919,"end":1940.686,"text":"第二大項是直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款636億元以及各機關推行各項施政計畫卻有實際需要數133億元"},{"start":1944.312,"end":1964.191,"text":"大院審議110年度中央政府總預算稅出三減2076億元其中通案三減數不得低於939億元扣除已經核實計算的通案三減數303億元本院尚需自行調整三減數達到636億元"},{"start":1967.915,"end":1979.361,"text":"由於本院認為這個有自愛難行之處原於114年度2月27號已請大院來赴議那麼大院也於同年的3月12號"},{"start":1981.62,"end":1995.905,"text":"決議能維持原決議總統並在3月21號來公佈所以本院拒以執行經橫著總預算遭大院刪減1439億元已經刪減了1439億元我們自行調整刪減部分僅能勉強地予以調減對直轄市及縣市的一般性補助款"},{"start":2007.335,"end":2030.007,"text":"但考量各地方政府財務需求及前述的刪減雖經各機關嚴格控管並準決執行後能對各項施政計畫推行產生自走研究卻有需要實際支出提出追加預算第三大項是提升國軍待遇59億元"},{"start":2032.025,"end":2046.172,"text":"台灣站在全球民主防線的最前線面對日益高升的地緣政治壓力與威權勢力的威脅必須持續提升國防力量維護區域的和平跟穩定"},{"start":2047.113,"end":2076.057,"text":"因此在國防方面近年來國軍擔負的戰備任務日益繁重且受到企業徵才以及少子女化等等的影響國軍戰力造成相當衝擊加上新式武器裝備陸續的接裝成軍急需高專人才長留久用為鼓勵官兵致戰鬥部隊服役提升國軍心思待遇以穩固國防戰力"},{"start":2076.758,"end":2096.869,"text":"本願於114年4月起陸續調整志願役勤務加級戰鬥部隊加級資訊勤務加級電訊偵測官兵勤務加級以及戰航管官兵勤務加級等加級需要增加相關的經費"},{"start":2098.294,"end":2114.144,"text":"第四大項是強化外交執行量能11億元為厚實外交執行量能及加速推動拓邦鞏固邦交等工作外交部規劃提升外交人員待遇福利及駐外使館硬體設備"},{"start":2115.325,"end":2140.167,"text":"加強與友邦及友好國家在基礎建設農林漁牧業衛生醫療教育文化勞動事務社區發展等各方面的雙邊合作及擴大邀訪各國外賓繼續增加相關經費第五大項是辦理第十一屆立法委員罷免案及全國性公民投票案合計15億元"},{"start":2142.728,"end":2159.848,"text":"中央選舉委員會於114年7月26日及8月23日辦理兩次第十一屆立法委員罷免案投票依公職人員選舉罷免法第十三條規定相關選工作需經費由中央政府編列預算"},{"start":2160.689,"end":2175.852,"text":"另外大院114年5月20日也三讀通過您是否同意第三核能發電經主管機關同意確認無安全無疑慮後繼續運轉的全國性公民投票案"},{"start":2176.652,"end":2194.366,"text":"並交由中央選舉委員會辦理依中央選舉委員會委員會會議決議在114年8月23日舉行投票依公民投票法第五條規定相關選務工作所需經費由中央政府編列預算"},{"start":2195.492,"end":2219.388,"text":"以上僅就本次追加預算案的編制重點概要說明有關追加預算案的編制經過及內容將由主計總處陳主計長再做詳細報告財源籌措部分則由財政部莊部長報告考量現階段各地方政府施政及重要計畫的推動以及前述刪減在各機關"},{"start":2221.124,"end":2244.989,"text":"控管準決執行預算下仍有實際財務的需求因應新增業務及經費需求就原住民保留地淨法補償提升國軍待遇加強外交執行量能以及辦理立法委員罷免與公民投票案並同提出最佳預算案懇請各位委員鼎力支持早日通過本預算案"},{"start":2246.206,"end":2265.467,"text":"以維持政府施政量能讓各項扶國立民政策能夠繼續的順利推動也讓國軍人才能夠長留久用穩固國防戰力深化國際合作的參與讓國人能夠自由的生活得到更大的保障以上懇請 謝謝各位 謝謝"},{"start":2272.894,"end":2276.364,"text":"謝謝卓院長的報告接下來我們請主計處陳主計長報告"},{"start":2287.778,"end":2305.593,"text":"韓院長 江副院長 各位委員先進 大家好114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案的編制概況和主要重點左院長已經做了說明我們現在緊就追加預算案的編制過程和內容概要進一步提出報告"},{"start":2306.454,"end":2319.206,"text":"最佳預算的一個編制過程 它內容概要如下第一個114年度中央總預算經大院審查 合列稅入3兆1648億元稅出2兆9250億元 稅入稅出剩餘2398億元扣除債務還本1415億元 收支剩餘983億元"},{"start":2330.717,"end":2355.489,"text":"那第二個本次追加預算它主要的一個內容如下一 稅出部分編列878億元那主要是一 原住民委員會辦理原住民保留地淨法補償計畫的經費24億元第二個是國防部和海洋國防部主管和海洋委員會主管調整君子人員各項勤務加急"},{"start":2357.209,"end":2382.474,"text":"59億元第三個是外交部厚實外交執行能量能力加速推動拓邦鞏固邦交經費11億元第四個是中央選委會辦理第11屆立法委員罷免案及全國性公民投票手續經費15億元第五個是直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助636億元第六個是各機關推行各項"},{"start":2383.914,"end":2410.054,"text":"施政計畫卻有實際需要計有133億元主要包括一經濟部主管辦理後源調度幹管工程計畫及降低漏水率計畫等30億元第二個是內政部主管辦理生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫等29億元三數位發展部辦理數位創新研發計畫等13億元"},{"start":2411.215,"end":2424.906,"text":"第四個是農業部主管整理整體性治山防火防災大規模崩塌及不安定土砂防減災等所的經費11億元第五個是國防部辦理各項營區維運各項國內外專項訓練"},{"start":2429.85,"end":2452.462,"text":"等所需經費10億元 第六個是海洋委員會主管辦理抽件海巡艦艇潛在發展計畫等9億元第七個是衛福部外交部 文化部等主管辦理即興傳染病流行風險監控與管理第四期計畫等31億元以上稅出追加"},{"start":2454.146,"end":2472.399,"text":"總共是878億元他所需的財源全數以原預算收支剩餘來支應重上追加的結果中央114年度中央政府總預算稅入維持3兆1648億元稅出增為3兆128億元稅入稅出剩餘為1520億元扣除債務還本1415億元收支剩餘105億元以上對預算"},{"start":2484.426,"end":2500.551,"text":"中央政府總預算追加案的報告敬請各位委員女士先生會議指教並鼎力支持完成審議以上謝謝陳主席長的報告接下來我們請財政部莊部長提出報告"},{"start":2512.113,"end":2535.387,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好一百一四年度中央政府總預算追加預算案有關收入投邊情形財政部報告如下第一個就是本追加預算案的裁員規劃一百一四年度中央政府總預算原編列的稅入是三兆一千六百四十八億元稅出是兩兆九千兩百五十億元"},{"start":2536.347,"end":2558.915,"text":"稅入稅出剩餘2398億元扣除債務還本1415億元那麼收支剩餘是983億元本追加預算案稅出追加878億元將以原預算的收支剩餘數與米平無需另籌裁員"},{"start":2560.436,"end":2572.289,"text":"2014年度中央政府總預算並繼本追加預算案後稅入維持3兆1648億元那麼稅出就編列3兆128億元稅入稅出剩餘1520億元扣除債務還本數1415億元以後收支剩餘是105億元"},{"start":2581.179,"end":2588.784,"text":"第二個部分報告的是關於債務的控管在債務存量的部分截至114年7月底中央政府長期債務的餘額"},{"start":2592.431,"end":2610.563,"text":"實際數是5,879億元佔前三年度的明目GDP的平均數是24.3%至於114年底長期債務餘額的預算數是根據公債法的規定按照113年底中央政府長期債務餘額的實際數5,8580億元"},{"start":2615.446,"end":2624.209,"text":"連同歷年特別預算融資調度保留數2910億元再加計114年度預計的債務舉借數並扣除債務償還數所以預估到114年底指中央政府長期債務的餘額是6兆4768億元約佔前三年度明目GDP的平均數是27%"},{"start":2639.773,"end":2656.898,"text":"那債務流量的部分在114年度我們的債務流量目前執行的前瞻基礎建設新式戰機採購及海空戰力提升計畫的採購還有預計執行的丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建等特別條例"},{"start":2657.778,"end":2678.423,"text":"都排除了公債法第五條第七項單一年度債務流量的管制僅易後強化經濟與社會韌性以及全民共享經濟成果的特別條例沒有排除單一年度的債務流量管制那麼114年度的法定債務流量的比例因為本"},{"start":2679.523,"end":2695.452,"text":"含本追加預算的總預算以及易後特別預算都不需要舉借那麼舉借債務數就是為零因此佔總預算及易後特別預算稅出合計數的比例也為零那麼就在債務流量15%上限的範圍內"},{"start":2698.914,"end":2719.475,"text":"第二個 各個特別條例施行期間的債務流量前瞻基礎建設 新式戰機的採購以及海空戰力提升計畫採購及丹納斯等特別條例都規定施行期間的債務額度合計數不得超過該期間總預算及特別預算稅出總額合計數的15%"},{"start":2722.298,"end":2748.85,"text":"那麼經過計算上開各個特別條例施行期間到114年度都符合施行期間的債務流量規定最後本特別預算案將以原預算收支剩餘數給米平無需舉債那麼本部呢也會根據課專預算法財政紀律法及公共債務法等規定審慎的管控整體稅入稅出差短以及債務比例"},{"start":2749.91,"end":2773.783,"text":"兼顧財政的穩健及經濟的發展以上報告 敬請各位委員會與指教鼎力支持謝謝好 謝謝財政部莊部長的報告抱怨會 現在我們進行委員諮詢每位委員詢答時間不得超過15分鐘輪到諮詢的委員如果不在場 我們視為放棄首先 請王宏威委員諮詢張琦凱委員請準備"},{"start":2782.332,"end":2802.55,"text":"好 謝謝主席 先請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢黃委員好好 院長好在談預算之前先談執行預算的人"},{"start":2803.513,"end":2829.141,"text":"您昨天有講內閣改組大概這個禮拜完成我想請問一下內閣改組的幅度這次會撤換的相關的閣員包含國安的部分會超過五人以上嗎包含國安國安不在我們現在所謂內閣的名單當中那是府方在處理的會超過五人以上嗎"},{"start":2831.509,"end":2853.23,"text":"有的是首長們自行因為自己的原因提出了辭職我知道有人提辭職信有人不願意提辭職信如果是從部長加次長的話我認為人數超過五人超過五人有可能超過十人以上嗎十人以下五人以上"},{"start":2855.091,"end":2862.221,"text":"數字不代表一切啦我們希望如果有熱誠進來團隊服務的未來是要展現出院長我為什麼問這個問題"},{"start":2864.542,"end":2884.339,"text":"因为其实内阁改组的幅度外界是非常关切的尤其你们已经相继提出包含今天的追加预算还有明年度的总预算因为预算是人在执行的所以为什么要问内阁改组的幅度因为今天我们看到的预算书"},{"start":2885.54,"end":2902.59,"text":"是由我們現在坐在這邊的閣員們所提出來的他不能說他沒有看過這些預算書是不是但是我不曉得會走多少人也就是說也許你提了預算書最後不是你在執行所以那個改組的幅度是重要的但是"},{"start":2904.039,"end":2929.811,"text":"最近您也可以看到除了賴總統他的民調滿意度已經跌破三成以下包含您本身以及內閣的滿意度也跌到三成以下所以我想請問院長我想請問院長除了內閣改組之外現在我們所提出來的追加預算我們如果按照你們所提出來878億也就是"},{"start":2933.493,"end":2954.15,"text":"如果全數給你們的話那麼今年度的預算就突破了三兆突破了三兆原來就已經是歷史新高現在又變成歷史新高而且突破三兆所以我想請問院長在我們這些追加預算裡面"},{"start":2955.646,"end":2964.214,"text":"您認為你提出了什麼樣的有感的政策讓人民會有感會提升你們的施政滿意度"},{"start":2965.609,"end":2991.498,"text":"就是照這次在大院審查今年度中央政經總預算的時候這個通山部分的939億那讓行政院要自行刪減636億這個部分確實讓大家都有感而且是非常不好的感覺不論是中央或是我們後來沒有辦法 左撿地方你刪掉地方補助款大家人民才覺得不好啊"},{"start":2992.338,"end":3007.719,"text":"中央如果自行刪減636億將會造成所有的預算變成自力破碎很多的部會要被刪減到無法執行我想這也不是當初包括委員您大院所有委員所希望看到"},{"start":3008.74,"end":3024.35,"text":"你們還在追究636億其實我要告訴你在你878億裡面待會我會跟你說哪些部分基本上我們會支持但是我現在要跟你討論的是"},{"start":3025.791,"end":3048.626,"text":"你們現在除了那有幾項是因為新增或者因為法定就是我們立法院通過的法令通過的預算之外你們有關於各部會所提出來的預算包含外交部一共提出來了142億的追加碼對不對包含外交部啊"},{"start":3049.895,"end":3073.805,"text":"外交部沒有提出142億我就說各部會再加上外交部外交部11億嘛對不對然後你其他各部會是132億嘛院長我不曉得你有沒有看這些預算這些所有的132億的預算幾乎大部分都是什麼呢它不是新的證物"},{"start":3074.991,"end":3095.385,"text":"他不是新的政府原來的預算經刪減之後他無法支應這個政務的執行被立法院刪減之後你們現在來搞復活賽就先來搞一個復活賽因為你不爽不爽被刪然後現在要求把它編回來這沒有什麼不爽所以我才問這個追加預算"},{"start":3100.933,"end":3120.004,"text":"那些132億哪一個符合預算法裡面的追加預算預算法它是說如果你執行政務有新的事項發生執行有重大事件重大事件發生那這個就是因為重大事件譬如說像罷免 公投"},{"start":3121.308,"end":3149.911,"text":"这个是属于预算法追加预算符合其他都是你这130你刚刚讲了绝大部分都是你们在114年度总预算送到立法院来被我们删除之后你现在又要求重编回来请问一下他有什么第一个他有重大事故吗第二个他是新设计官吗第三个他是因为法律而增加吗都不是"},{"start":3150.732,"end":3169.208,"text":"所以基本上他們並不符合預算法裡面應該追加預算的連主計長上來我看他都在那邊手忙腳亂所以院長啊我剛才講你們現在說要調整你們的步伐調整你們的政策"},{"start":3172.46,"end":3196.574,"text":"賴總統說從現在開始要民生優先經濟優先 弱勢優先 青年優先我沒有看過這樣自贈己罪的啦這代表什麼呢你們之前這些都沒有優先不是這樣的邏輯當然是 你為什麼現在說我要調整這些要優先所以你之前這些都沒有優先你們之前都在搞政治囉你們之前都在搞鬥爭囉沒有沒有 這個委員不要這樣誤會總統的意思"},{"start":3198.415,"end":3222.783,"text":"所以你們追加預算問題很多我還有很多問題要問所以在你們這878億裡面我剛才講譬如說你對於地方補助款的636億基本上我們會支持因為現在地方政府熬熬待補有些地方政府都在舉債很可憐"},{"start":3224.421,"end":3253.411,"text":"所以我們不得不支持你禁法補償條例是因為立法院通過的預算所以我們也可以支持還有包含國軍的加薪我們也可以支持但是其他有關的一些項目你讓我們怎麼支持公投的預算也要支持我待會就要講這個事你們很扯"},{"start":3254.673,"end":3273.207,"text":"你要講公投公投和罷免我先講這132億裡面絕大部分都是回補回編過來我還沒講完回編過來我剛講想要搞復活賽嗎譬如說內政部他的回編率高達九成以上"},{"start":3274.088,"end":3292.785,"text":"海委會高達八成以上那我想請問我就很仔細看的預算書囉有什麼我們輸漏的當時給你刪掉的譬如你們那時候在這個預算啊藍白亂三預算一大堆的謠言我就請問了內政部說我們把房屋租金刪掉了有回編回來嗎有嗎來"},{"start":3296.368,"end":3311.331,"text":"劳动部说我们把育儿留职津贴删掉了有吗劳动部里面的预算书里面有吗张尊海马上叫当你的秘书长说我们把中小企业的预算都删掉了请问一下预算书里面有吗有删吗"},{"start":3312.228,"end":3337.364,"text":"當初也許是因為有些是凍結那我們在論述的時候把凍結跟刪除院長要不要道歉院長要不要道歉如果我們論刪請問為什麼這件預算書裡面沒有編回來為什麼沒有你要不要道歉報告委員如果是因為凍結而誤戳為刪除那這一點我表示道歉但是凍結之後有回復的部分我也表示感謝"},{"start":3338.936,"end":3352.924,"text":"所以當時有多少造謠尤其在這邊包含內政部長勞動部長 財政部長你們造謠多少如果當時有山與山你們應該別回來確實有很多是山族的我們該刪 應當刪就刪你剛剛講公投和罷免"},{"start":3364.312,"end":3368.177,"text":"崩頭和罷免 請問一下我們曾經問過你們的二背經"},{"start":3371.465,"end":3399.875,"text":"來我們先放二倍金二倍金在8月15號二倍金裡面就已經有因應公投以及罷免的相關預算的請款請問一下為什麼又要編在追加預算是怎麼樣你們要再搞一次大罷免嗎二倍金有二倍金更需要的用途那如果這間預算能夠同意的話那這個會歸電給二倍金那二倍金他會比較完整以應不時之需謝謝委員"},{"start":3400.635,"end":3418.365,"text":"因為當時我們就說你們搞一個罷免用的就是二倍金是救命錢你們現在害怕了來追加預算院長你也當過政治人物除了主計長之外你們兩位都當過政治人物"},{"start":3419.452,"end":3436.26,"text":"你來罷免我你來罷免我現在請我把這個錢給你罷免的錢給你用納稅人的錢給你請問一下全體老百姓這都是全體納稅人的錢納稅人有讓你們搞大罷免嗎"},{"start":3437.523,"end":3456.713,"text":"那些人又要讓你們搞這樣鬥爭嗎然後現在你還可以誇誇其言說公投跟罷免的錢你們應該要給我們公投會給你公投是立法院通過的請問罷免罷免是現在從726到823你可以看到人民的選擇"},{"start":3459.634,"end":3485.611,"text":"台灣人民太有智慧了台灣人民太有智慧結果你現在要納稅人錢幫你付這個大罷免錢你去跟民進黨黨部要好不好你不應該去跟民進黨黨部要跟七鳥要啊對不對 跟黑熊要啊第一段是我沒有罷免你我們這個我沒有罷免你這是第一段第一段公投是公民所發動的對不起罷免是公民所發動的"},{"start":3487.366,"end":3494.891,"text":"公投是立法院所發動的在行政機關看起來都是一樣而且我認為如果以人民至上的話"},{"start":3495.933,"end":3512.141,"text":"更不應該說立法院發動的 您支持人民發動的 您不支持人民發動 是人民發動的嗎還是民進黨發動 民進黨團天天在這邊大罷免大成功那是因為呼籲公民運動主動發動的公民運動"},{"start":3518.484,"end":3529.213,"text":"因為我而言公民發動的應該勝過立法院才對啊時間暫停我請顧立雄部長時間暫停我請顧立雄部長麻煩請國防部長備詢委員請"},{"start":3548.905,"end":3578.165,"text":"部長在這一次的追加預算裡面院長我跟你講你的沒宣費也全部把它編回來這個部分我直接講我們不會同意另外這兩天國防部要求各級單位不能再用志願役加緊三萬塊再來招募人員這裡面其實已引起很多的現役軍人的反彈或者他們的焦慮"},{"start":3579.285,"end":3585.649,"text":"昨天還有就是我們現役軍人的眷屬來拜託我說這一筆拜託因為他們還在"},{"start":3588.809,"end":3616.041,"text":"小孩能不能就能夠實現所以我想請教部長在今年非常特殊我們過去這些軍事學校常常都招不足兵員出現了問題他們的未來我們的兵員結果今年很特別清個軍事院校報到人數創新高全部招收額滿這當然跟在立法院通過的這個加薪的法案有關係"},{"start":3617.662,"end":3644.708,"text":"現在你們不編預算請問一下部長你認為會不會重創我們現役現在一線國軍弟兄的士氣跟委員報告我想提升國軍的待遇來照顧官兵及家眷的福利是我們慈恆一直在做事實上今年的4月1號 6月1號 7月1號行政院都已經核定陸續來提高"},{"start":3645.448,"end":3668.793,"text":"志願役的家籍 戰鬥部隊的家籍我們剛剛講你們追加預算我們會同意我們追加預算讓院長放心就是追加國軍待遇的部分我們會同意但是現在是立法院所通過的你們不編預算會不會沖創國軍士氣另外 比如說像三立新聞因為為了要護航嘛 他說"},{"start":3670.133,"end":3674.359,"text":"軍人不是以服從為天職嗎現在阿兵哥比上班族還敢喊加薪部長你同不同意這句話"},{"start":3679.598,"end":3707.026,"text":"剛沒聽清楚您說他說軍人不是以服從為天職嗎現在阿兵哥比上班族還敢喊加薪嗎請問您同不同意這個話同不同意這樣的論述我想國防部的立場就是我們後續還會有相關的規劃包括我們考量部隊的人力專長任務的性質還有危險的工作危險的程度等等我們會來持續規劃那現在我想"},{"start":3707.646,"end":3722.995,"text":"行政院有其整體的考量就這一個您現在提到的應該是志願役三萬塊的這個加級的部分嘛那志願役三萬塊加級的部分依照行政院的指導它整體有一個整體性的考量一個橫平性的考量院長 完全不會編這筆預算嗎"},{"start":3752.734,"end":3755.096,"text":"好 謝謝王宏偉委員質詢也謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢"},{"start":3760.697,"end":3762.078,"text":"接下來我們請張祺凱委員質詢吳思瑤委員請準備謝謝韓院長請鍾院長"},{"start":3790.799,"end":3818.111,"text":"麻煩再請左院長備詢張委員好左院長經歷了兩次大罷免大失敗之後賴總統有特別提他說要做四大調整包括行政跟立法要調整對不對結果看了你們送來的這個"},{"start":3819.724,"end":3837.995,"text":"中央政府總預算的追加案都沒有改沒有調整那至少有三大違法它就是一個調整能夠把636億如果能夠把636億追加回來如果能把636億追加回來那就是一種我們善意的調整我們希望從此開始審查預算大家平心靜氣依法論事"},{"start":3850.843,"end":3878.341,"text":"三節預算絕對應該但是要合理而且重大的要跟兩院來協商我們說過去立法院都是如此未來的立法院我充滿信心你還是這樣硬碰硬不是硬碰硬不是硬碰硬你都不做改變人民會問賴總統對他講的調整包括行政立法的步驟要調整是真的嗎還是本來已經請辭了你根本就沒準備要調你今天送來至少有三大問題本來都應該改的"},{"start":3879.298,"end":3907.366,"text":"民眾已經清清楚楚透過選票而且很呼應你說 第一個該編列要加進去 驚人的加薪警消人員退休的守得替代力結果你不加這個不該編的又編進來636億立法院已經要求你去統三了你硬要把它塞進來還把地方政府 把人民當作票第三個更嚴重了立法院三讀通過 刪減很多預算"},{"start":3909.232,"end":3911.479,"text":"你很多都回編耶我統計你七個單位回編的這個金額啊"},{"start":3915.703,"end":3944.943,"text":"是我們砍掉的超過百分之五十七十個 七個單位喔超過五成喔還有三個單位竟然超過百分之百這三大違法你怎麼還敢送咧你這樣做到賴總統說的你要調整嗎未來在實質審查的時候也請委員耐心聽聽各部會面臨的困難讓他們能夠有機會表達委員你也是預算的專家你真的認為立法院可以編一個預算要行政院增加預算嗎"},{"start":3946.523,"end":3970.514,"text":"法律案通過當然可以啊預算審查當然也可以啊來我先問你三個憲法跟預算法的規定都不是如此你如果經過了兩次大罷免大失敗你都完全不像在這種調整的你就繼續在大失敗下去不只明年底的縣市長會輸你們總統大選會輸掉如果兩院的權責已經無法理清的話那不是任何一次投票決定的憲法"},{"start":3974.457,"end":3976.921,"text":"憲法不是任何一個投票可以解決定的除非修憲"},{"start":3980.404,"end":3995.418,"text":"你很有可能是中華民國有史以來第一個違憲而且一直違法不願意好好編列依法編列預算的行政院長前無古人話無來者行政機關認為有違憲之餘送請大法官解釋申請暫時處分這是憲法賦給我們的權利跟責任沒有違憲之餘那你釋憲之前"},{"start":4004.907,"end":4030.821,"text":"大法官還會議還沒有做裁決之前你依法行政立法院通過的法案你有沒有執行我有申請暫時處分你有執行嗎我有申請暫時處分我剛剛講的軍人的加薪剛剛講的警消的所得替代率提高委員你顯然不瞭解暫時處分的目的已經過了你為什麼沒有執行呢你顯然不瞭解暫時處分的目的來來來我們談三個很基本的原則啦看看你的法治觀念法律經過立法院三途通過"},{"start":4033.013,"end":4038.966,"text":"總統公告立即生效以後行政院 包括行政院長你們義務依法律來辦理"},{"start":4040.558,"end":4068.355,"text":"我認為有違憲之餘我申請釋憲申請暫時處分我們就能夠暫時停在這個階段第一個你認為是對的你要執行第二個我沒有認為對的要執行你不要誤會我的答覆你不要誤會我的答覆不是你誤會我的答覆這樣不行如果行政院行政院不依法辦理是不是過程違法我有申請釋憲跟暫時處分第三個如果"},{"start":4069.591,"end":4088.061,"text":"行政院像周院長講的你覺得有違憲之疑你是不是應該依照憲政程序你要先依法執行顯然委員不知道暫時處分的效率是什麼我有申請暫時處分我有申請他還沒有做決定沒有暫時處分前你要不要執行"},{"start":4093.579,"end":4105.775,"text":"還沒暫時處分之前 你要不要執行如果我們對中華民國憲法相關程序都認識不清的話你真的問題回答嘛 一定沒有暫時處分吧你要不要執行 金人加薪"},{"start":4106.909,"end":4134.213,"text":"警消人員退休所得替代率提高目前有沒有暫時處分暫時處分就是暫時停止現在的新的制度我們停在這裡等大法官就暫時處分做準駁之後我們才能進到下一步否則我請問委員如果釋憲出來是一個違憲的那麼我們發了是你違憲還是我違憲如果我們發了你是中華民國有史以來第一個"},{"start":4135.373,"end":4160.65,"text":"第一個這樣做的你也是第一個委員立法院114年來只要是立法院通過總統公告的馬上就執行了全中華民國有史以來前無古人後無來者有一個著容態你也是第一個你也是第一個不了解暫時處分的委員你也是第一個院長接下來我跟你講上次有解決方法的啦你在講636億"},{"start":4164.224,"end":4192.884,"text":"以前2002年那時候行政院長叫張進雄張進雄 你的前輩嘛 對不對那一年一樣立法院通過三讀以後要求他要自行刪減比636億還多耶658億那時候中央政府總預算只有現在差不多一半一兆五千多億人家張進雄透過朝野協商之後"},{"start":4195.97,"end":4213.061,"text":"沒有像你去砍了地方的一般補助款然後到今天受到立法院來的追加案還把地方政府把人民當成弱票要立法院去附贖金張委員你已經自己講出答案了經過草野協商之後有跟行政院協商嗎有嗎"},{"start":4214.876,"end":4242.287,"text":"協商是你們破壞的從萬年總召柯建民你們三長跟整個黨團還有協商嗎沒有協商就可以大軍壓境嗎韓院長在主持會議的時候要朝野協商你們連主計長都不敢來中華民國有洗了朝野協商主計長財政部長要在被你們下令不能來立法院內的朝野協商發生困難就可以將行政院的意見完全不顧嗎是這樣嗎"},{"start":4244.568,"end":4273.752,"text":"你們也不能完全不尊重立法院嘛而且你要尊重 尊重長久的朝野協商 第一個第一個 主計長 財政部長 相關人員要在我們要跟你談 要三減多少你們要去精算嘛結果你們下令他不准來你們一開始就為了大罷免天才火你們就不要他來這段完全是誤解這段完全是惡意的誤會院長 我們今天是要解決問題我跟你講有更好的解決方案我們從歷史找答案嘛以前有成功的個案啊"},{"start":4274.392,"end":4298.352,"text":"你已經大罷免大失敗為什麼要困在那個大罷免大失敗裡面呢大罷免是公民團體所提出的不要說是我們大罷免是公民團體我們尊重人民就要有這樣的民主至上人民至上的主要的觀念在這裡不要一直說大罷免大失敗是我們提出的我們看成功的個案你是有智慧的人我相信你應該開始要調整了你不要一直陷在以前那個經驗裡面來"},{"start":4301.238,"end":4326.692,"text":"這個是主計處的故事你回到行政院主計總署你都可以看到這一頁這個講的是2002年那一年中央政府總議在審查的時候針對稅客收入大幅刪減了812億造成短差擴大到685億所以決議要求行政院自行檢列同耳的稅出彌補"},{"start":4327.585,"end":4354.464,"text":"有沒有看到那個關鍵字你的重點在畫在下一段你的重點在畫在下一段對 沒錯 你都沒有看到關鍵字也是要你自行調整每一年立法院三讀通過的時候都會要求行政部門同時去做自行的調整 這是第一點請委員繼續把下面那一段唸出來比今年的636億還多 685億那委員請把下面那一段唸出來啊來來 你來唸下面那一段唸出來啊"},{"start":4355.906,"end":4364.073,"text":"你下面那段啊行政院跟朝野黨團協商時提出各種可行的處理方案3月1號、12號、13號三次協商討論後兩院院長協議後3月22日簽署協議書有嗎"},{"start":4371.955,"end":4382.783,"text":"協商好幾次啊 韓院長就坐在上面啊韓院長主持過幾次會議韓院長為了解決這問題還進了總統府耶回來還邀集了各黨的黨團協商怎麼會沒有協商呢韓院長已經很幫忙了 兩院院長協議後3月22日簽署協議書 有嗎院長你不要扭曲事實這個是你寫的啊今天主席長來 主席長來坐在這邊我先給你看"},{"start":4396.033,"end":4422.637,"text":"主席長我講的話主席長有聽進去所以後來主席長參考了2002年的個案齊凱那時候也提出來所以後來主席長給你做了三個建議案對不對他說解決這636例很簡單嘛第一個三在席 什麼叫三在席就是2002年用的方法嘛主席 主席長在點頭 他有聽進去朝野協商有功效 是你不採用"},{"start":4423.417,"end":4438.355,"text":"2002年的成功經驗也不採用主機台有良心的經驗你這樣的詞詢是犯章取義你自己拿出來的影片裡面的文字你自己不在意你只唸出那一段"},{"start":4439.156,"end":4464.054,"text":"你只有頭沒有尾這樣的諮詢不行的啦我現在跟你講有草野協商不是嗎有兩院院長協商有兩院院長簽字同意嗎那個院長你就繼續留在那個大失敗裡面硬拗的那個過程我留在你的資料裡面經過以前有成功的個案而且草野協商主席也跟你提了你就依照2002年看清楚嘛36億就解決了結果不是"},{"start":4464.934,"end":4467.477,"text":"你用以前成功個案把債息"},{"start":4482.31,"end":4500.19,"text":"可能是降低 或者是延後 你就可以解決問題嘛韓院長那麼辛苦 還找大家來協商 本來是一個很好的成果沒關係 我今天不跟你爭辯這個我現在跟你講說 以前張進雄行 我不相信卓榮泰不行啦我也可以 以前的陳水扁行 不可能現在的戴清德不行張委員 兩院院長同意就可以 有嗎兩院院長同意就可以 有嗎"},{"start":4503.433,"end":4516.567,"text":"你有提出用再洗嗎沒有耶 你就去砍了一般補助款耶你們在這裡表決有給我機會嗎不只是私能耶 你叫私德耶這也是社會福利的預算基礎建設的預算教育的預算你們在這裡表決有給我機會嗎"},{"start":4520.512,"end":4546.201,"text":"所以你後來有草野協商嘛 說不聽草野協商主席都提案子 你就照這樣做你們內部協商困難 你不能就讓行政院接受沒關係 你摸著良心 這錢你會做公平剛剛講的是你該送過來的 另外一個我該送的我都有送你看你送過來的是什麼不該送的636億堅持要送 該送的不送"},{"start":4547.725,"end":4567.144,"text":"金人加薪這個事情你看金人你送過來金人有家籍你收容貸想要怎麼做都可以對不對立法院通過你就是不願意做家籍你一句話你就做了然後立法院通過幫金人一個月加薪三萬塊錢你偏偏就不做這是怎樣"},{"start":4568.066,"end":4595.17,"text":"你有沒有考慮到憲法的程序你有沒有考慮到國家的財政跟立法院還有所有你有考慮到所有公務人員的衡平性嗎我們加急量力而為而且循序漸進你有考慮到所有公務員的衡平性跟公平性嗎而且不只是金人不要轉移話題警察人員 消防人員 海巡 移民署"},{"start":4597.171,"end":4609.242,"text":"你提復一案你提了復一案你又失敗你今年追加你也不編115年也不編你什麼意思追加預算你腦袋裡面你眼睛裡面有法治嗎"},{"start":4610.37,"end":4633.043,"text":"你把憲法放在哪裡 把法律放在哪裡如果追加預算是一個法定可以走的程序那我們是依照這個程序懇請委員就各部位現在自然難行執行業務困難之處 能夠再跟委員拜託請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來執行 請可委員來�"},{"start":4636.803,"end":4654.336,"text":"不只是嚴重違反預算法預算法裡面四項才可以追加預算的你今天送來的幾乎都不是我統計了一下七個單位內政部被刪的預算回編追加率將近100%95國防部75行政院327農業部"},{"start":4665.137,"end":4678.251,"text":"超過54%環境部超過597個機關立法院砍掉了你全部把它補回來補超過一半還有三個機關竟然還超過100%行政院327%外交部151%海委會139%院長"},{"start":4688.12,"end":4704.753,"text":"你眼裡面有憲法有立法院嗎 有人民嗎立法院負責審查預算結果立法院砍掉了你全部把它追回來我們是爭取再一次機會讓各委員聽聽各部會的困難以後你們政權換成是其他黨的時候我看你們當在野黨怎麼辦最重要比槍聲更累我們要認證憲法 尊重法治法院長 戴總統已經講了行政立法要怎麼做你要不要交給戴總統今天我跟你講了"},{"start":4718.703,"end":4731.615,"text":"好好 謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長答詢"},{"start":4749.858,"end":4765.589,"text":"好接下來我們請吳思瑤委員質詢請侯孟凱委員準備謝謝主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢吳委員好"},{"start":4774.381,"end":4791.658,"text":"院長大家辛苦了請息怒誰在硬拗誰在強詞奪理社會自有公斷負責任的執政黨我們努力做到只是可惜忠誠的在野黨在台灣現在還沒有看到我多次的說"},{"start":4793.127,"end":4808.966,"text":"國家是大家的預算是全民的預算沒有顏色但是藍白主導的國會卻讓114年以及來年115年的中央財政都陷入了黑暗期"},{"start":4810.925,"end":4826.063,"text":"114年是審查總預算史上最混亂刪減最多 凍結最嚴格這是史上未見的一個總預算之亂我們都在全民持續的受苦"},{"start":4827.031,"end":4842.247,"text":"但是來年要編列也即將送出的115年總預算我更要說是中央財政有史以來最最黑暗的時期而且這是史上最難編列的一次總預算"},{"start":4843.348,"end":4869.704,"text":"稍後我會就追加預算任性特別預算跟年度新的總預算來就教於您我要再次呼籲國會縱使應當嚴格審查但也要合理監督不是胡扯硬凹以為要癱瘓傷害執政黨卻是傷害了自己的國家下一頁"},{"start":4870.785,"end":4874.716,"text":"今天我先跟您講文化講文化會讓我們更優雅一點"},{"start":4876.159,"end":4901.405,"text":"我也期待我卸任幹事長之後我可以回到文化立委的身份去投入我最熱愛也最專業的文化的政策首先在2018年吳斯堯是國會第一位我倡議台灣的國家軟實力就是文化力要善用國際的Mega Event讓台灣的國家品牌跟上國際的賽會賽事讓世界看見台灣"},{"start":4905.126,"end":4921.635,"text":"所以當我2018年倡議的時候我那時候的聚焦就是優先從2020年的東京奧運再來2024年的巴黎奧運乃至於2025今年的大阪世博都讓台灣組成文化國家隊讓世界看見台灣下一頁"},{"start":4922.535,"end":4939.296,"text":"於是當時的行政院長賴清德他就同意拍板成為我們文化外交的新模式因此2021年我們在東京奧運啟動的台灣Now就是一個最好的開端下一頁"},{"start":4940.293,"end":4966.386,"text":"接著在巴黎的奧運上我們又用文化台灣呈現台灣的文化藝術力也獲得世界的掌聲它不只表演藝術 視覺藝術我們的策展 我們的閱讀所有的文化人集結邁向讓世界看到利用運動賽會的奧運舞台它也是台灣的文化盛會下一頁"},{"start":4967.392,"end":4982.413,"text":"所以今年的大阪市博我們的文化部門也是這樣雄心壯志乘勝追擊但是就因為在野黨二砍二刪預算而且鎖定特定的預算就是國際的沒宣費"},{"start":4984.075,"end":5004.454,"text":"讓台灣的國際宣傳沒了錢就是形同讓台灣的文化力台灣的聲音在世界背進身勒住了脖子勒住台灣自己脖子的人是自己的立法委員自己的國會所以承受了惡果啊今年的大阪市博就是現在八月"},{"start":5005.643,"end":5022.226,"text":"然後呢 國際沒宣費被在野黨惡砍之後文化人站出來由楊大正 由吳念真老師發起民間募資要推動我們前進大阪的活動因為要強化宣傳"},{"start":5023.291,"end":5038.658,"text":"我們的文化藝術表演界都準備好但沒有文化宣傳費所以發起了民間募資在登場的這一系列35組藝術人超過140場的文化展演共募資光37小時就募資600萬"},{"start":5040.481,"end":5069.841,"text":"所以這已經上路的三週的文化展演在大阪獲得無限的掌聲這是第一階段的募資第二階段的募資下一頁就是現在即將要利用如果大阪世博未來要卸幕的時候文化人再啟動一次的募資到現在也有700萬的民間的善款我們要在閉幕的時候We Taiwan這個文化運動要在大阪所有的地鐵"},{"start":5071.001,"end":5099.187,"text":"來感謝世界各國支持台灣的力量再一次的行銷台灣而國家沒有錢被國民黨民眾黨惡砍了只好讓民間的文化人來募資韓國瑜院長打算安排朝野的立委九月可以到大阪去見證台灣文化力的實力展現但我要說院長你不覺得國會對不起文化人嗎"},{"start":5101.366,"end":5120.767,"text":"國會對不起文化人嗎當我們帶著大批的立委跨黨派的立委要去大阪沾光的時候國會卻是扼砍我們文化國際宣傳的元兇我不曉得韓院長帶著草野的立委去大阪的時候是要抱著什麼心情"},{"start":5121.929,"end":5139.447,"text":"我認為國會欠文化人一個道歉文化人站出來搶救文化預算到現在被國民黨的立法委員秋後算帳進行政治的追殺這就是一個惡果啊所以我從文化的事件開始下一頁"},{"start":5140.598,"end":5169.179,"text":"所有的惡果都在這一張通宣9391不明就李還砍過頭國務委員我能回答一句話好請回答為了向委員學習對文化的重視我們明年文化部的預算跟今年一樣我堅持超過300億元我們也達到了這是第一個再來文化部明年有一個計畫要把大阪博覽會相關文化預算回來台灣沒錯我知道你們先去看我們在台灣等"},{"start":5169.878,"end":5191.337,"text":"我希望在野黨的立委不要再為難文化了我也支持在新年度的預算國家支持文化軟實力國會不要再惡砍當然非常好大阪這個140場的文化展演確實文化部打算讓它移回台灣讓台灣人也能受惠我絕對支持政府這樣的做法"},{"start":5192.398,"end":5215.479,"text":"但是不要再上演去年通山9391還砍過頭還找不到明目砍要行政院自己去調節就產生了6361的這個惡果剛剛在野黨的委員還在這裡大聲指責您我真的是覺得沒有看過這種加害者一再的譴責受害人"},{"start":5216.34,"end":5233.86,"text":"而當受害的一方行政團隊想方設法提出解方也就是追加預算來解套來挽救國家的財政推動國家的政務的時候現在這些在野黨的委員還在那邊轉移焦點想要洗白自己的罪行下一頁"},{"start":5234.841,"end":5257.67,"text":"追加預算我們即將安排審議明後天的委員會跟週五的院會這也是韓國瑜院長所拋出的就讓砍過頭的預算用追加預算來恢復補回這也是泛藍陣營地方執政的縣市首長共同的呼籲所以呢下一頁"},{"start":5258.65,"end":5278.865,"text":"我在這裡說讓施政回歸正軌藍白的立委如果想要洗白自己二砍總預算的罪行不要再擋追加預算了他除了有六三六億地方補助款之外更有我剛剛說的很重要的中央施政必要的預算下一頁"},{"start":5280.311,"end":5298.803,"text":"這些是中央時政各部會真的需要用錢的部分我剛剛講的We Taiwan在大阪的文化行動下一頁我們同樣受到重傷的就是媒體宣傳費不只對外對國際行銷台灣被自己的立法委員掐住了脖子"},{"start":5299.744,"end":5311.111,"text":"對內當政策需要對國人進行宣導的時候也被砍光光怎麼做譬如說政策的宣導有什麼風災之後要宣導災民怎麼樣來"},{"start":5312.512,"end":5339.402,"text":"加入政府給的協助措施對不對當我們要打詐需要沒宣費告訴政府告訴人民現在政府有哪些打詐的做法包括馬上要普發現金了如果在野黨不要再擋任性特別條例修正案的話發現金的過程這是史上花最多的一次現金他當然需要去宣傳告訴國人怎麼執行不要被詐騙嘛對不對"},{"start":5340.728,"end":5355.514,"text":"院長給您最後的時間喊話一下在野黨的委員這是你們真真切切去洗白你們二砍總預算的機會就是支持追加預算院長再次喊話吧在總統指示下我們願意"},{"start":5356.054,"end":5383.245,"text":"而且會主動的來調整兩院互動關係所以為了追加預算為了特別預算為了明年度總預算我們會主動積極來進行溝通協調我也希望大院給我們這個機會但是如果牽涉到是憲法的問題那沒有什麼可以討論的憲法的標準是有一套所以剛剛也許我的語氣比較激動因為委員對於憲政的秩序要了解"},{"start":5384.045,"end":5412.447,"text":"對於釋憲對於暫時處分的公眾要了解才能在這裡對話所以我並不願意用一種比較激烈的態度來講話我還是誠誠懇懇拜託大院這一次的中央政府總預算的追加限制到各部會目前的困難自然難行我們更希望一起中央地方來解決現在所遇到的財政問題這個一解決今年度我們解決明年度的中央政府總預算我們回到"},{"start":5413.336,"end":5420.525,"text":"合理正常的朝野經商我們該怎麼做包括警消包括軍人如果釋憲出來我們這個條例沒有違憲"},{"start":5424.787,"end":5453.121,"text":"我們就補回來追溯回來如果違憲我們現在發了我請問委員我們現在發了一個違憲的執行是立法院違憲還是行政院違憲還是我們共同違憲我們都不要承擔這個責任我是用這樣的方式跟態度我請韓院長理解各位委員理解 謝謝所以其實院長您不用覺得對於剛剛可能動了一點氣覺得Sorry事實上面對這種在野黨的立委不懂憲政"},{"start":5454.201,"end":5478.581,"text":"不懂法律也不懂自己國會基於權力分立的原則沒有立院最大這件事在野黨的委員如果沒有辦法清楚的掌握真的秀才遇見兵有理說不清不要說是您啊我每一次朝野協商都氣到火冒三丈啊但我們都在忍辱負重我們都在為國家的前進持續的不放棄溝通"},{"start":5479.875,"end":5498.381,"text":"我們要提高自己的修養是 還好我們都很優雅下一頁講到任性特別預算我們透過修正案的部分停產業顧民生助弱勢也要發現金這都是產業要的救命錢更是弱勢期待的及時雨下一頁"},{"start":5499.401,"end":5527.981,"text":"所以說讓違憲成為核憲我們提出特別條例的修正案增加到5900億的預算然後呢我非常期待這個週末也就是週五讓這個史上最常研會也最沒有意義的研會至少交出起碼合格的成績單就是讓任性特別條例的預算案能夠對不起修正案能夠順利通過我相信韓院長也會做出努力來進行朝野協商"},{"start":5528.641,"end":5556.58,"text":"所以如果8月底我們能夠讓特別條例違憲成為合憲立法院通過之後9月就可以編出預算送出預算國會審查最快最快10月可望來執行相關的預算停產業顧名聲發現金駐弱市這是我們共同的期待希望藍白的立委不要再找任何的方式來做"},{"start":5557.521,"end":5573.298,"text":"為反對而反對的作為下一頁我們對於預算提出調整因為我們需要擴大加碼挺弱勢跟支持產業下一頁我非常不能接受當中有一筆200億強化台電電力設施的預算"},{"start":5577.882,"end":5597.051,"text":"這200億是用在全台灣的產業園區乃至於工業區要協助產業能夠有穩定的供電更強韌的電網韌性來幫助產業的發展但是目前為止據說在野黨尤其民眾黨的委員似乎磨刀霍霍不給這筆預算"},{"start":5598.992,"end":5620.058,"text":"吳斯堯來自台北市北市科是北台灣科技狼帶最後一塊拼圖也是我們期待輝達可以進駐如果在野黨的委員何況柯文哲前市長一再把北市科當作他的政績但事實上我要說這是郝龍斌市長任內就殿下的基礎包括吳斯堯擔任市議員我們一起來催生"},{"start":5623.106,"end":5647.356,"text":"如果現在這200億被民眾黨的委員揚言要砍了我希望不是事實喔那麼對於北市科的發展對於輝達的進駐乃至於其他台灣的工業區產業區的產業的需求就會大受傷害下一頁所以輝達落腳北市科除了黃仁勳說請蔣萬事長加把勁"},{"start":5649.617,"end":5677.773,"text":"我也希望請藍白的立委不要為反對而反對最後的時間請您來進行說明謝謝委員而且台電的這個預算我已經請他啟動全國電纜地下化的評估他會在初期也把這些評估甚至選定一些發電所需要技術可行的要先行做一些工作出來所以這個預算如果通過早日朝電纜地下化整個電纜韌性安全來做不僅台北受益"},{"start":5681.9,"end":5708.272,"text":"支持台電電網熱性強化的預算這兩百億是全台灣的產業園區工業區所需要的是我們因應美國的官員抽籍我們停產業不止產業非常重要的珍貴的預算我也希望不要迷難北市科不要成為北市科發展的絆腳石不要成為關卡進駐北市科的阻礙我再呼籲再也講各位"},{"start":5710.609,"end":5731.353,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝吳思瑤委員子訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝喝口水吧"},{"start":5735.68,"end":5748.531,"text":"郭議員現在在議場二樓旁聽來自台中的一群鄉親朋友好 我們掌聲歡迎接下來我們請洪孟楷委員質詢"},{"start":5774.175,"end":5799.606,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢副委員好卓院長好 卓院長114年行政院所送出來的總預算以及包括這一次8月所送出來的追加預算總共有三高一低四個特點"},{"start":5801.104,"end":5827.117,"text":"三高分別是總預算規模史上最高即便是通過了立法院的審查能高達兩兆九千三百億元左右是歷屆中華民國政府史上最高的總預算兩兆九千三百億元第二如果說再加計這一次的追加預算八百多億算進來的話將首次突破三兆元預算"},{"start":5828.447,"end":5855.09,"text":"追加預算也創歷史新高以及第三回編率史上最高立法院所刪除依照人民給予我們立法委員的職權來監督政府把關預算勘緊人民荷包但是當我們請行政部門來尊爵開支的時候沒想到這次再追加預算又再回編回編率史上最高"},{"start":5856.249,"end":5874.978,"text":"低 什麼低 刪除率如果說扣除台電1000億這一次假設都全部回編的話將會是史上最低的刪除率過去8年即便是民進黨國會多數全面過敗也沒有刪除那麼低過高達低達0.65%"},{"start":5879.93,"end":5897.665,"text":"換言之當初行政院所提出的3兆元的預算現在回編率創新高的情況下刪除率只有0.65百分比院長拿了那麼多錢手上那麼多現金"},{"start":5899.128,"end":5915.014,"text":"過去一直推說是這個經濟表現亮眼地方政府也變高所以行政部門也變高但是我開宗明義第一點我就跟你說了總預算也是現在史上最高兩兆九千三百億今年三分之二過去了"},{"start":5915.509,"end":5932.737,"text":"到現在又再推出一個所謂的800多億的追加預算而其中這追加預算裡面分兩塊我想先跟您就教到目前為止有哪一個部門補貼人民反應有自愛難行或說當初凍結解凍之後沒有領到的補貼嗎"},{"start":5935.398,"end":5964.418,"text":"謝謝委員這樣的數字的整理 確實也沒錯確實沒錯 行政院的編的預算 行政院院長剛剛已經親口承認了三高一低的預算 確實沒錯我是說包括您所在的新北市 今年的預算也是史上最高最高並不是最過 看有沒有做什麼事情我們今年編的預算當中有2809億我一再強調是新增事項 過去所沒有的如果這些新增事項都不要的話 我們就比過去一樣"},{"start":5965.218,"end":5990.447,"text":"在經過大院的刪減之後我們就只有去年本席問的問題跟你回答的方向完全不一致我第一個問的是為什麼高針對問題回答問題到底到現在三分之二年度過去了有哪一些預算該拿到人民的補貼當初造謠講說租金補貼教育補貼幼兒津貼甚至體育相關預算有哪一筆預算是沒有拿到我要謝謝大院在"},{"start":5991.327,"end":6015.6,"text":"今年上半年之後有比較快的速度跟效率啊回復了一些凍結的預算凍結預算之後所以沒有嘛我們一千多億的凍結有部分解除但是我們還是有包括台電在內的一千四百三十九億被刪除台電還有四百三十九億被刪除人民已經用公投也好或是說用兩次的投票都已經正式的正告行政部門"},{"start":6016.6,"end":6043.479,"text":"錯誤的能源政策不改什麼店都沒有用來 院長我再跟你請教我們這一次的追加預算800多億本期救市論事分兩個部分一個是636億是地方政府的一個補助款一個是將近300億也就是所謂的其他各單位對不對 我們分兩塊也有一些新增的項目沒問題 我們分兩塊我想立法院從頭到尾沒有說要刪除這個必須依法編列的一般補助款636億"},{"start":6045.191,"end":6066.867,"text":"自行調整的部分行政院用乾坤大挪移把它去挪移到25%也就是所謂的636億那我請教什麼時候行政院確認要636億刪除掉地方政府的不足款我們在大院確定刪除預算之後我們也對預算提出了各種的救濟都沒有辦法獲得"},{"start":6068.839,"end":6084.97,"text":"我沒有辦法講出時間600多億行政院長不知道時間你要問我哪一天嗎不是 什麼時候確定就是在大院刪除之後我們經過各項救濟都沒有辦法來回復的時候我們看看各部會已經被刪除的預算"},{"start":6086.363,"end":6109.353,"text":"今年1月立法院通過了總預算2月總統召集協商立法院長 行政院長一起協商那是2月的事情當時韓國瑜院長也提出說可以請行政部門用追加預算來辦理不一定要提復議 行政院不聽3月提出復議之後被立法院打臉到5月你們提出了地方政府的補助款刪除現在幾月"},{"start":6110.233,"end":6127.805,"text":"所以我們在那個時候我們就之後我們還要看看各部會執行的困難不是 院長我現在跟你討論636億五月的時候你們提出了刪除地方政府636億地方政府是不是馬上在禮拜四的行政院會都告訴行政院長說這樣不可"},{"start":6128.909,"end":6155.761,"text":"會有知愛難情之處因為地方政府的命根子地方政府的財源會被你全部都卡掉當時我有請地方我們中央地方一體共體一間結果現在8月才提出最佳預算因為我還有各部會我們除了地方政府的反應之外還有各部會在執行上實際發生的困難我們現在在討論的是636億我可能辦第一次或第二次的最佳你沒有辦法針對問題解決問題回答問題這樣子我們很難理性溝通就如同剛剛吳斯亞委員都已經在講了"},{"start":6156.701,"end":6180.238,"text":"吳蔡偉現在又要離開了但是他剛剛在講的時候他剛剛在講啊我們就事論性就問題解決問題本席現在在請教的是你說我什麼時候提出最佳預算嗎636億你們提出來地方政府也講說自愛難行五月的時候提出來到現在八月那中間三個月的時間我們還有各部會主席長或行政院長應該也很清楚我們還有各部會的自愛難行地方政府"},{"start":6180.578,"end":6193.86,"text":"地方政府是不是現在即便是我們現在八月底要通過地方補助款的話有可能很多的發包有可能很多工程有可能很多過去行之有年的這些建設也會在最後四個月來不及"},{"start":6195.254,"end":6213.873,"text":"這個部分如果刪減一般性補助款他影響到的是稅入他稅出如果說他本身一個照案執行他還是照樣可以發報只是將來就是說如果所以這個部分我們就院長很認真的跟你討論的地方在於是哪裡在於是"},{"start":6215.661,"end":6231.133,"text":"2月韓國院長就已經代表立法院也說明了可以用追加預算行政院不聽3月一定要提復議復議完之後5月乾坤大挪移把636億挪移到地方政府補助款就到現在8月"},{"start":6231.954,"end":6248.062,"text":"非得一定要就是大罷免大失敗之後你們才要來做相關的救濟嗎不是這樣子的看起來就是如此啊我們要讓各部會執行上真的發生困難的時候你們現在的狀況反映在院裡面我們一併提出最佳預算從一開始開宗明義本席就講了你也說了三高一低的預算"},{"start":6249.54,"end":6272.097,"text":"拿到史上最高的總預算結果現在三分之二年度過去了才在那邊講是說要追加預算這不是拿地方政府來綁架立法院什麼才是那最大宗的就是636億所以這就是代表行政部門過去應該依法編列的地方政府補助款的預算你們拿來綁架變成是拿來跟立法院叫板嗎"},{"start":6273.317,"end":6297.684,"text":"看準了立法院我們希望是大家能夠推動所以636億我們會支持但是你們到現在8月的時候才要提出水庫的水被抽光了流向滋流的就會減少這是必然的32比0是國人告訴民進黨政府國會監督制衡的重要性"},{"start":6299.382,"end":6318.28,"text":"我們一年多來我絕對專業理性問政監督但是一年多來民進黨政府有沒有做到這樣子好好的施政好好的為人民法官本席也一直認為賴清德總統一年多來確實欠台灣人民一個道歉"},{"start":6320.728,"end":6349.708,"text":"他是黨主席 他是總統但到目前為止沒有聽到他對罷罷免完畢之後他有對罷團說道歉罷團說對不起所以與民同行結果與的是少數的公民同行而不是多數的主流民意那本席想請教賴清德總統說不出口的道歉我們是提出大罷免的是行政機關或是總統賴清德總統說不出口的道歉行政院長卓榮泰願意幫他道歉嗎"},{"start":6350.933,"end":6379.193,"text":"我幫總統道歉我沒有任何的權利幫總統道歉如果行政院任何部分有錯誤那我想請教過去這幾次您跟賴清德總統請辭的主要原因是什麼我認為在一次的投票之後我們感覺到我們的施政並沒有馬上可以反應下去所以我認為這個團隊要調整那團隊要調整那您請辭的原因是什麼"},{"start":6380.39,"end":6405.816,"text":"必須負起這樣團隊調整的政治責任那與其部分的調整不如全部的調整賴清德總統留任的原因主要是什麼他認為我們過去所做的一些事情現在還在持續當中也發揮了一定的成果未來包括明年的總預算包括我們所提出的各項建設所以他認為整個溝通就如同您剛講的溝通是不良的政策沒有下放的"},{"start":6406.876,"end":6434.705,"text":"行政院長副院長不用調整那其他部會要調整現在的局勢能夠穩下來但是再提出了四個調整那四個調整在7月底的時候我也提出過就是財政的體質院長你還是沒有回答問題來 院長我再直接請教一下那現在因為這一次提出來636億剛剛已經討論完剩下200多億各部會的總共有幾個部會提出來最佳預算總共提出來的部會有包括"},{"start":6436.121,"end":6458.231,"text":"總共幾個還要翻資料有有有 總共幾個我當然要算了我不能這樣子跟你說是幾個總共幾個還要翻資料啊包括經濟部 內政部 速發部 農業部 國防部還要翻資料啊海委會 衛生部 19個部會來 19個部會有哪幾個部長有可能會調整這個人事的問題容許我不在這裡做我只問幾個 我沒有說哪一個"},{"start":6459.48,"end":6476.673,"text":"院長您剛剛馬上快訊就出來了嘛說你剛剛回答王洪輝委員講說五個以上嘛可能次長加部長五個以上但本時想要確認為什麼我覺得這很重要啊就如同說行政院長我們記不記得2024年我們2月1號就已經開議了當時也做過施政總報告"},{"start":6477.614,"end":6495.515,"text":"那施政總報告結束之後等到您5月21號您上任之後我們還是要求再次施政總報告因為換了主官換了主事者可能會有不同的思維那一樣的道理現在我們通過的追加預算如果現在是A部長接結果通過了A部長所提出的追加預算結果馬上一個禮拜內換B部長"},{"start":6497.267,"end":6514.779,"text":"那我們到底要不要再問一下說這B部長有沒有自愛難行還是B部長會不會認為說其實他現在預算就夠了政府的施政是延續性的如果有新的部長上任我會跟他你剛剛就講了嘛我會跟他在上任賴清德總統認為是說有人事要調整的必要所以說你們也做人事調整"},{"start":6515.239,"end":6543.028,"text":"即便是你多次請辭我剛剛也聽不清楚說你到底請辭的理由跟藉口是什麼但是不管怎麼樣看起來你也留定了那我們現在想問的是那下面的部長我可以叫哪一個部長上來他會不會一個禮拜跟我承諾之後結果一個禮拜內他就不見了兩個步驟第一個政府的施政是連續性一貫性的我待會教是連續性的一貫性新的首長但是主事者這麼重要不管換A換B換一顆西瓜也可以當任部長"},{"start":6543.928,"end":6552.047,"text":"新的首長在跟他徵詢面談決定之前我都會跟他提到相關預算的問題我希望他能夠執行現在的那你面談過幾個部長了現在"},{"start":6556.325,"end":6582.558,"text":"您面談過幾個部長了我現在就是有兩位部長提出了職程因為有一位次長也提出了離開那其他呢那其他的都還在進行當中什麼時候會決定我希望盡快決定不會等到我們這個禮拜五院會通過追加預算之後你們下午才決定我希望本週能夠盡快決定就是這個禮拜五下班以前如果能夠更早的話會更符合您的期待院長來喔"},{"start":6584.522,"end":6609.842,"text":"最近的政論節目都有提到說過去這一年多民進黨政府為什麼會施政滿意度不管是賴清德總統或卓榮泰院長或是內閣團隊都屢創新低確實這是客觀數字沒有辦法騙人但其中一個很重要的理由是那到底過去這一年多我們自豪的政策推出有感民眾認為說卓榮泰內閣裡面真的在關心的政策"},{"start":6611.166,"end":6614.379,"text":"說政論節目問到三個名嘴名嘴啞口無言也說不出來"},{"start":6616.115,"end":6643.504,"text":"來 給你一個宣傳的時間三個政策有認為說具體哪三個政策是人民過去這一年都你們很自豪的我們在經濟發展委員會當中第一個造圓投資國家的方案現在已經有十足的進展往以後會更加快速另外就是亞洲資產管理中心在高雄的場域試驗已經有多家的金融機構投入也展現了一個新的氣息另外我們今年很重視兩項一個是中小企業的多元振興跟發展"},{"start":6644.184,"end":6668.861,"text":"我們用了比過去更多的經費另外我們在系統性治水方面我們也把它提升經費希望能夠救八年八百億前瞻之後系統性治水這是有淹水但是我知道淹水的地區縮小了退水的時間比較快你提到這三個政策有感的政策姑且你心中認為有感你知道這有一個共通點嗎這三個政策都是經濟部長的工作"},{"start":6669.977,"end":6690.809,"text":"你剛講這三個中策都是主要是經濟部長的工作這也看得出來我們國人才會覺得最加的訝異就是當你這樣講這三個部分經濟有沒有表現好國人不清楚國人有感但是國人有沒有感不一定但是你提到這三個部分沒有一個宏觀的狀況我們的打架呢我們的國防"},{"start":6693.097,"end":6712.597,"text":"當初講說AI內閣結果現在AI人工智慧基本法還停在行政院版本還沒有出來我們說實在話您知道您的部長已經在立法院跳票兩次了嗎"},{"start":6712.637,"end":6741.396,"text":"本來承諾7月初要出來的黑暗運動諸位基本法7月15號也沒有出來結果到現在我們立法院已經先審查了還在等待行政院的反本拜託院長行刑好院長可以的話真的回去好好地把你位首長每個人的上級發條國家還需要往前在野黨有責任跟在野黨也願意跟行政部門一起合作但是絕對不是這個樣子"},{"start":6744.398,"end":6765.209,"text":"好 謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝我們接下來鍾嘉斌委員質詢之後將會休息十分鐘我們請鍾嘉斌委員請質詢"},{"start":6775.134,"end":6793.914,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列席的政府經濟總統官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請卓院長跟陳主席長然後請農業部 交通部 經濟部跟國發會請準備麻煩請卓院長 主席總長"},{"start":6802.521,"end":6820.689,"text":"總務委員好院長好 主席長好剛才我聽了前面幾位委員尤其在當委員的質詢我也很疑惑院長 主席長我來自過去十年前來自地方政府我們過去的地方政府常常辦理追加預算我先請教主席長中央政府行政院常辦理追加預算嗎"},{"start":6822.007,"end":6840.708,"text":"很少辦很少辦理我過去在這10年100年辦一次然後再來就是113年辦台電的追加所以我就認為這10年來我還是第一次遇到但是我在過去地方擔任副縣長期間我們常常辦追加預算為什麼因為地方政府很多是仰仗中央政府的補助或計劃競爭型計劃我們會預算先列"},{"start":6844.319,"end":6871.434,"text":"但是必須中央補助下來的時候我們才辦追加為什麼因為錢沒到我們不能辦發包所以我們對於中央政府准許我們的補助之後我們會馬上辦追加所以地方政府幾乎年度中都會辦追加追加的因為就是等著米下鍋行教院長這次辦理追加的原因是不是中央政府沒有米下鍋需要立法院同意這些追加預算才有辦法繼續施政"},{"start":6872.641,"end":6899.696,"text":"委員這個形容是貼切的跟我說的一樣水庫沒有水 支流就沒有水所以必須要水庫的水先把它填滿你要下鍋的意思是相同的一般的社會認知去年在野黨亂砍中央政府走運算造成我們今年度的施政推動困難地方很多建設無錢可做為了解決這個困境所以由我們韓院長出面用追加預算的方式來解決這個無米可吹的困境是不是這樣"},{"start":6901.153,"end":6922.632,"text":"當初是有談過在總統召集的院計協商當中韓院長是很好意的提出了這樣的方式但是呢既然這樣的一個追加預算的方法是我們韓院長也提出為了解決過去國會亂砍預算造成施政困難但是又不能夠預算重審所以請行政院以追加的方式來做是不是這樣子"},{"start":6923.539,"end":6935.589,"text":"這沒錯嗎好 結果我看到前天我們立法院的預算中心說這一次追加預算的從編率過高削弱了立法院的職權我很疑惑"},{"start":6936.963,"end":6966.176,"text":"明明就是立法院亂三三過頭了做不下去了才有院長出面為了解決這個難題請行政院不是用複製的方式提出用追加的預算方式提出簡單講我們行政院買一輛車結果立法院審計這邊也不要倒車雷達也不要衛星定位配備都不要結果連方向都沒有這個車交給你沒辦法開所以只好拜託再把這些配備恢復回去這輛車才能開"},{"start":6966.914,"end":6989.074,"text":"是不是這樣子但是我們也謝謝韓院長的善意因為我們那個時候到現在各部會執行上發生的困難總要有一段時間去推動現在收集的各部會所困難的狀況以及這個636億我們才組成這個再加上一些新增事項才有這個878億因為簡單講就是買了一輛新車但是有人認為你們新車價格太高"},{"start":6989.935,"end":7018.771,"text":"很多設備都砍掉了結果這個車你開回來發現哇 油箱只有5公升根本沒有辦法開遠途所以要求再回去再買一個換個大油箱 是不是這樣子所以我是覺得雖然院長在這裡啊院長既然有這麼好意也應該提醒一下預算中心啊既然這是院長要求用一個補救之道當然重編率很高嘛就是因為亂砍 砍掉不該砍的才需要透過最佳預算回復重編嘛 院長你說對嗎"},{"start":7019.844,"end":7042.083,"text":"我們也是依照各部會實際之所需有部會已經刪除的認為他不至於造成重大自在難行也並不在這整個預算的這個追加當中所以啊我很少對我們立法院自己的機關自己的部門批評這個預算中心這篇話為什麼成為新聞因為真的是狗咬人才是新聞"},{"start":7043.317,"end":7072.085,"text":"預算中心辜負了院長解決預算執行困難的好意結果還去批評說預算充電率太高真的就是這個預算中心不上新聞不死心啊非給要我們韓院長難堪不可啊好我們現在來問我們真正重要的議題來我們主委長請回我們請農業部長還有我們的這個交通部長麻煩請農業部交通部備詢來我們現在看一下院長你看一下這張照片"},{"start":7073.154,"end":7091.045,"text":"你認為水汪汪的這裡是什麼東西底下是什麼它是河還是路它應該是一條路而且是淤泥的水是我們農村常見的道路鋪得還不錯但是現在通通是水了為什麼"},{"start":7091.834,"end":7110.74,"text":"因為旁邊的農田水都排到道路上去了本來是路道現在變成河道我們來往下看來陳部長我們來看一下我們農田水利會過去有農田水利會農田水利法過去是農田水利會的時候我們的灌溉排水的溝渠是地方的水利會在負責"},{"start":7112.356,"end":7136.202,"text":"農委會或農業部是負責補足對不對但是現在因為農田水稻修改之後所有農田水利會都由中央變成農田水利署的地方管理處我們發現水利署根據農水法去執行如果沒有農用事實沒有灌溉需求的原來的灌溉的勾牌他就不再做灌溉勾了就變成了是由地方政府的區牌來處理是不是這樣子"},{"start":7137.202,"end":7166.28,"text":"對 如果已經不需要做農業灌溉的時候它可以化為都市化 填調或者是變成一個都市裡面的區域所以我們把這些具有排水功能的溝渠交給地方政府因為地方住宅需要所以院長我們有沒有並同預算也給地方政府很多的預算支持讓他們能夠來承擔這樣的工作應該在預算當中地方政府可以運用到這個方向來好 但是每個地方政府分配的不一樣"},{"start":7167.23,"end":7184.202,"text":"因為分配下來之後像農業縣分配到的比較少但是我們要去負責來處理成績的這些灌溉溝水的排水相對資源少所以很多地方的鄉鎮公所沒有辦法去清淤不能清淤的結果 結果是什麼這個農田我們往下看"},{"start":7185.503,"end":7214.223,"text":"這個農田他現在他的取水不是透過水利溝來取水他自己打井取水但是農田要排水還是用原來的灌溉溝但是這個灌溉溝已經移給地方政府去做清淤了他不只要排農田的水還要排附近住家的水但是因為地方政府他沒有能力財力不足他不去做結果造成了住宅的民生水也沒辦法排農田的水也沒辦法排陳部長有沒有地方跟你反映這個問題"},{"start":7216.486,"end":7221.956,"text":"陸續有一些縣市或是鄉鎮有反應這樣的一個問題但是每個個案我們都跟經濟部在處理"},{"start":7223.553,"end":7248.349,"text":"所以我說地方跟中央要共同齊心協力我們的預算已經撥下去你就盡量做但是我覺得中央還是可以來協助一件事情什麼事情其實這些農田它跟民生住宅是混在一起的這些溝渠廢為水利溝之後它作為區域排水地方政府要去維護這沒錯但是事實上我們中央從各級的道路它都有側溝排水"},{"start":7248.929,"end":7261.67,"text":"其實這些道路其實就可以負擔起道路的側溝排水它不能作為灌溉使用農田是不需要依賴側溝來灌溉但是農田跟住宅的排水都可以透過道路的側溝來排放"},{"start":7263.212,"end":7282.507,"text":"陳部長 交通部是不是主管全國各地的道路分級道路的一個規範的設計 工程規範的設計要求是 我們工程設計的規範要求我們的道路排水都是以怎樣 以降水的宣洩為主我把路面的降水排擦就可以了 車庫救護的功能"},{"start":7282.927,"end":7295.849,"text":"但實際上我們現在的測溝排不是只排道路的泄水我們會連同周邊廣大的住宅或農地的積水都要一起排所以它的通紅的斷面它的設計的容量是不是要提高"},{"start":7296.961,"end":7320.755,"text":"目前應該是有提高但是在規範上面我覺得是可以調整的所以我相信請院長指示農業部跟我們的交通部我們設法把農村地區的道路的工程規範的排水的效能把它提高他不只是負責道路的排水他也監助附近這些住宅或農地的排水是不是請我們指示兩位部長把這方面去研議"},{"start":7322.129,"end":7348.337,"text":"我先跟委員報告就是有關於農村地區的這些排水那因為那個水利法跟排水辦法是經濟部主管所以我們也會跟經濟部然後跟交通部一起去看看去重新一個設計我們請國發會的副主委上來也請經濟部的次長準備請陳部長可以先回 謝謝您的支持好 那麼部長你又指示了嘛那農業部長也說了那接下來的國發會這裡很重要"},{"start":7348.988,"end":7371.835,"text":"因為現在發現農業部他負責的設施他的效能不實現於農業而已所以目前農業部報的這些有農村地區相關的水利工程的預算請國科會要支持院長支不支持謝謝委員 這個建議國科會可以支持 國發會可以支持吧是的好 那麼我們請經營部次長來好 那接下來我談另外一個問題"},{"start":7373.778,"end":7397.386,"text":"下一個問題我們現在談一個問題這次的風災發生了很多電力網故障需要代修的情況是不是 院長你下去親自看了是不是很多的電力網要花很多的人力去修復這很多的事故其實不是特別嚴重就是樹枝殘葉捲到了架空線還一定要耗費人力去排除"},{"start":7398.346,"end":7418.704,"text":"經濟部長 是不是這樣子是好 但是我們仔細看了一下為什麼在農村居住地區有那麼多樹呢就是一個平地造林政策農業部陳部長 平地造林有關水土保持嗎沒有嘛有一部分啦平地造林 當年是20年前為什麼推動平地造林"},{"start":7419.465,"end":7435.426,"text":"所以我要加入WTO為了減少台灣的耕地面積的計算所以我們霸量的農地比較生產力低的我們鼓勵他平地造林 是不是這樣子所以這些造的林他是要零補助的但是正因為他只要零補助"},{"start":7436.169,"end":7462.606,"text":"他不求經濟效益所以平地造林20年來的亂象很多那麼其中包括什麼平地造林周邊地區這些樹疏於整理常常妨礙了道路上的電力的架空線造成台電的負擔何次長是不是這樣子這次的那個風災的停電一部分是因為這個樹枝的部分沒有修剪的部分我單單就屏東縣那個台電的區管處台電區營業處去算"},{"start":7465.444,"end":7481.241,"text":"111年數目構成的就這7件去年更多因為今年的颱風屏東比較沒有那麼嚴重去年的山陀我們很多的台電事故花費人力去做這些市長 這些平地造林有三分之一是台塘的地 您知道嗎"},{"start":7482.622,"end":7501.115,"text":"可不可以 院長 請經濟部責成台塘先將他們平地造林的林地周邊有道路 有架空線的優先把他們平地造林的樹木疏伐退縮3到5公尺避免再發生這個情況 可以嗎謝謝委員提醒經濟部應該要求台塘要負起這個責任"},{"start":7502.042,"end":7529.413,"text":"好 謝謝所以呢 我說與其颱風前去修減樹枝不如把這些沒有經濟效益的平地造林直接退縮疏伐不要再花力氣去維護也不會造成架空線受損市長你支持吧我支持好 謝謝 請回好 來 接下來我們要問的就是陳部長了院長其實平地造林不是只有在颱風風災的時候影響到我們的電力供應它也因為它屬於管理"},{"start":7530.712,"end":7557.172,"text":"陳部長你所知道的台灣這些平地造林有實際達到經濟林可以成材 銷售 獲益的有沒有我跟委員報告整個平地造林現在面積大概有13500多公頃台塘占三分之以上然後台塘是10500三分之二那其中已經成林而且具有生態價值大概3800多公頃你說的是生態價值但是現在有700多公頃是可以恢復農業生產"},{"start":7559.354,"end":7575.266,"text":"700多公頃 我真的13000公頃有700多公頃的農業生產其他的你不做農業生產他也沒有經濟零的效益他有生態棲息的效益但是生態棲息的效益地主沒有享受到我們平地造林20年期滿地主還可以領補助嗎"},{"start":7576.84,"end":7592.674,"text":"沒有了嗎所以沒有林補助的治下這13000多公頃的平地造林他就變成是一個地主爹不娘爺不愛沒有人去管只會造成附近農地農民的公害鼠害蛇害妨礙積水這些害眠部長你瞭解嗎"},{"start":7593.474,"end":7621.705,"text":"我跟委員報告就是一般平地造林很多樹種是20年還是不能砍拔的然後可能還要在10年的部分所以我有後續的獎勵我們現在沒有要加入WTO了平地造林當時的政策目標卓院長您仔細聽 已經沒有了所以平地造林要整個的去重新盤點退場讓這些原來的農地它是不是可以做農業還是做其他的用途使用好好的來思考一下"},{"start":7623.027,"end":7647.745,"text":"我想我們會遵照委員的一個建議我剛才說的就是不是700公尺是7000公頃左右是可以當作生產跟零下經濟的部分那我們會重新盤點將有一些是不是可以把它砍拔以後變成恢復到農業生產所以何市長再上來我現在就講一個例子講給院長聽現在台積電要在屏東要設廠"},{"start":7648.971,"end":7665.113,"text":"看中什麼 看中了我們的台塘的地上面在種什麼 種外銷的毛豆那台塘當然是讓給台積電 請毛豆農另外走啊那毛豆農他沒有地可以種他去問台塘還有哪些地可以種毛豆台塘說很多造林地"},{"start":7666.175,"end":7682.285,"text":"那些造林地其實不是只是台塘的台灣全國的平地造林地都應該用這個思維來思考如果這些地像台塘租給農民種毛豆的地如果也可以台積電蓋廠經濟部支持嘛行政院支不支持"},{"start":7684.447,"end":7711.905,"text":"評論支持啊 平衡縣會支持啊但是毛動龍怎麼辦毛動龍要去找其他的地如果這些地是平地造林的地部長是不是應該重新全部盤點平地造林的地如果有已經不適合做造林使用改用其他 不管是其他的使用方式整個來通盤檢討 院長支不支持我覺得通盤檢討的事情好 謝謝"},{"start":7714.36,"end":7728.781,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉賓委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來我們休息十分鐘十分鐘之後請旭臻委員準備質詢"},{"start":8374.574,"end":8381.324,"text":"华业会现在我们继续开会我们接下来请徐宇峥委员咨询陈廷飞委员请准备"},{"start":8403.374,"end":8418.016,"text":"謝謝主席我們請卓榮泰卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢主委好卓院長好"},{"start":8419.963,"end":8449.563,"text":"主委長剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的追加預算我記得在上禮拜我諮詢您的時候我就有提到了在今年2月10號總統邀集五院院長一曲是會唱國陣的時候韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出復議結果院長"},{"start":8450.458,"end":8474.016,"text":"您有沒有提出賦益有 你在2月27號提出了賦益結果呢 好 在提出賦益之後韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾結果您還是提出了賦益然後在5月16號針對我們的一般性的補助款幫地方刪減了636億"},{"start":8476.178,"end":8484.984,"text":"所以這根本不是剛剛這民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的是因應這個韓院長的要求所以用這樣的方式來去混淆視聽我覺得非常非常的不公平院長是請您不要進出復議"},{"start":8492.008,"end":8508.188,"text":"可以用追加的方式嘛所以說我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠在胡說八道我覺得這個真的非常不可取喔那當然我們今天主要是針對這個總預算的追加案那我們也知道說今年度本來編列的這個總預算本來就是史上最高"},{"start":8508.689,"end":8530.015,"text":"那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億"},{"start":8531.115,"end":8548.013,"text":"那我們可以看到這兩個單位是屬於法定營運支出然後其他的被刪減回補的這種混合編列的方式喔根本就是在拿政府、人民拿地方的政府還有人民還有原住民"},{"start":8548.753,"end":8562.654,"text":"當作肉票我們要解決中央地方共同的困難要不要追加這個問題不是發生在中央就是發生在地方我們請中央跟地方一起共體實踐"},{"start":8564.176,"end":8582.715,"text":"院長那這197億元你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款機也是覺得立法把人民當作提款機啊哪裏的197億197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分啊因為你把他跟一般性補助款跟原住民的進保補償條例混在一起送進來這個總預算的追加案"},{"start":8583.075,"end":8604.126,"text":"那不就是把人民把這個原住民還有地方政府當作肉票我們有逐項分開編列啊你現在不就是這樣編列嗎就是197億是單位被刪減回編我幫你統計好了有逐項分開在裡面編列我知道但我幫你統計好了數目就是這樣子那另外呢我們可以看到在這個我們先來看看這個"},{"start":8606.431,"end":8615.354,"text":"追加預算這個編列的有多離譜你可以看一下我們幫你這個統計出來的表在112年呢3減300億那3減數是1.1%決算結餘有607億113年呢3減數是299億3減率是1.04%那決算是672億好我們在114年度如果"},{"start":8630.538,"end":8648.504,"text":"不含台電補助的1000億的話大概是3.55%如果你今天通過的追加預算878億通過之後刪減率來到多少只剩0.65%只剩0.65%是史上最低即便是你們在"},{"start":8650.869,"end":8668.073,"text":"過去八年執政國會最大黨的時代都還這個三減數都有1.1 1.04現在是0.65三減率不是拿來做競爭比較型的跟哪一年比較這不是競爭比較這只是告訴你這不是在競爭比較這只是告訴你目前的這個狀況0.65%是史上最低那當然你們現在迴邊了"},{"start":8677.996,"end":8694.791,"text":"這麼多的這個高額的追加預算我們可以看得出來雖然說立法院一開始刪減了一千零七十五億幫人民這個省下不少的血汗錢但是你現在又回編了八百七十八億所以說回編這麼高的一個追加預算心態非常可預"},{"start":8695.612,"end":8724.772,"text":"我們就在玩弄這個政府的一個預算那我們先來看我們先從你行政院本身的預算來看好我們有分為幾個部分那回編率是48.83%那我們先從一般行政來看我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌還有部分的政務委員的任命有問題以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸因此刪減相關的預算現在回編"},{"start":8725.452,"end":8727.739,"text":"2925萬"},{"start":8728.154,"end":8751.381,"text":"高達55.7%所以是不是又要來酬傭特定人呢再來聯合服務中心的經費之所以三減是因為他所併用的助理很多都是一些酬傭性質所以我們認為不該把我們的這個中部的服務中心或全台的服務中心當作一個安插這個政治酬傭的一個地方現在追加預算要回編3652萬高達96.4%"},{"start":8756.823,"end":8780.282,"text":"當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案請問現在有出來了嗎所以過去半年行政院的聯合副中心的人員到處在配合這個宣講大罷免造謠立法院亂刪預算現在卻要追加96.4%的這樣子的一個預算請問合理嗎你們有提出這個我們的具體檢討的方案出來嗎"},{"start":8781.192,"end":8796.898,"text":"行政院各地的服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免請委員指出來我們來處理好 會後我一定會提供給你絕對有如果沒有的話請委員支持絕對有請絕對有這個絕對不會空口說辦法會後我一定會告訴你"},{"start":8797.478,"end":8818.443,"text":"那當然行政院的執行長你們任用的這個服務中心的執行長副執行長其實看都是說實在都是酬庸的一個性質那我們也有很多的例子現在因為時間的關係我會後一定會整理給院長如果是的話您是不是就要把這個預算給他吞回去就刪減讓他刪減了根本不該用這樣的方式剛剛你說嘛"},{"start":8819.983,"end":8838.9,"text":"如果說沒有的話那你請我支持如果有的話你要不要把這些人都砍掉我們把各部會現在遇到的困難再一次向大院來講我們就來做這樣一個協議就是如果是這樣的話那我同意這筆預算回復如果不是的話我請你把這筆預算刪減"},{"start":8840.161,"end":8866.016,"text":"我再來看一下各部會的追加狀況就內政部追加率有95.4%外交部的追加率有151.3%環境部的追加率有59.1%當然行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5那海委會也追加了139許多部會都追加超過50%那當然追加率這麼高"},{"start":8867.967,"end":8890.295,"text":"有符合我們的財政紀律嗎那立法院還要審預算嗎我們審的我們覺得浮邊爛邊的刪除凍結之後就你們又把它追加回來這樣還有這個財政預算嗎我們還需要審預算嗎下個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎我們是以原預算收支剩餘來編這一次的追加預算所以沒有舉債所以這個不掀設任何財政紀律"},{"start":8891.075,"end":8920.508,"text":"我們還是嚴守財政紀律其實你們已經嚴重的違反了這個預算法第79條我們預算法第79條的預算的這個編列的規定是應該要有其中這幾項那目前看起來呢並沒有這些狀況因為好比如第三項因應重大事故的關係可是這一次不管是關稅的不管是風災的不管是其他這個國防的我們其實都已經編列了特別預算來去做所以為什麼還要追加這些預算我覺得"},{"start":8921.148,"end":8940.453,"text":"這樣子其實拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑我覺得真的不是我們行政院該做的事情喔那還有來我們看一下媒體宣傳費提出了4億2906萬的追加預算迴遍率達55.84%這也非常的不合理院長你知道在政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎怎麼護航執政黨嗎"},{"start":8943.217,"end":8971.304,"text":"院長你知道嗎我們是在編制在行政院內部的媒宣費用院長你來看電視節目是不是知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨你有看過嗎你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目喔沒關係你怎麼轉怎麼哪一台都一樣我從51台到57台都有看都在罵在野黨有啦51台到57台都有看所以院長你知不知道這次賴清德主席所聘任的就是民視的主持人擔任他的秘書長"},{"start":8972.554,"end":8990.428,"text":"那過去這一年多來他就是在這政論節目不斷的罵在野黨 詆毀在野黨而且民視在每年大概都可以拿到四億左右的宣傳費所以院長你說看看這樣子的一個我們的沒宣費用要怎麼能夠追加回來呢"},{"start":8990.908,"end":9015.933,"text":"所以交回來就是在罵在野黨而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的這個政策你知道嗎那天在一個政論節目主持人有問三位民主黨員說你們知不知道過去這一年來這個由民進黨執政的這個執政團隊有什麼政策你們想得起來的他們回答什麼有啊就是自愛難行然後咧 富裕然後視線"},{"start":9017.54,"end":9043.344,"text":"他們就回答這樣的問題這也是一般民眾的想法但是光是這三件真的讓我們自在難行這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話那為什麼會自在難行呢因為我們講過這樣的原因不能把這些帽子都扣到立法院身上為什麼會自在難行其實你很清楚行政院要負最大的責任賴總統要負最大的責任我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算"},{"start":9046.445,"end":9061.214,"text":"因為本席在內政委員會所以我在5月12號的時候我曾經詢問過中選會的主委李敬勇我說針對今年的我們的這個相關的罷免經費跟公投的經費你有沒有編列預算來我們請"},{"start":9062.334,"end":9081.617,"text":"你沒有辦法變入年度的預算所以下來罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金"},{"start":9083.14,"end":9111.187,"text":"李靜蓉主委本人也在現場當時我在5月的時候請教您5月12號請教您質詢您的時候你說會動用二倍金現在我們也看到針對第11屆立法院的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票已經在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動之第二預備金總共有15億左右院長也已經核准了我們可以看一下"},{"start":9112.367,"end":9126.177,"text":"那所以都已經動用第二餘倍金了為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算請問院長為什麼要重複的編列因為向來的罷免動用二倍金沒有錯因為都是單一事件那這次由公民團體發送的罷免"},{"start":9128.53,"end":9148.037,"text":"案件相當的大完全用第二日備金的話 您也說那是救命錢如果這個追加預算通過我們就可以歸電給第二日備金第二日備金在有需要的時候我們就用到更需要的用途今年度的第二日備金還有剩多少今年編列80億 現在還有剩多少現在已經幾月了"},{"start":9150.698,"end":9157.981,"text":"現在已經快要9月了過去這8個月來你們用的錢還剩下未來4個月還有剩下30多億那我剛已經提了不管是風災不管是我們都提出的特別條例那也不會再用到這方面的錢剩下4個月你還有30多億可以用而且是扣掉這15億假設你再回過來"},{"start":9175.347,"end":9184.039,"text":"是變成了四五十億那未來的四個月你還有用到這個有可能用到這樣子這麼多的錢嗎報告委員四五億裡面有十一億是公投"},{"start":9184.642,"end":9205.031,"text":"我知道我的意思是說都已經動用二倍金了你這時候又再追加回來而實際上最後用到了這些這還有三十幾億加上這十五億可能有將近五十億我們先電池出去了二倍金先動大概還有將近五十億如果再把這個十五億還回來你最後這四個月你有這麼多的二倍金"},{"start":9206.471,"end":9232.645,"text":"二倍金委員說的很好 就是救命錢如果不需要用到 我們不會把它浪費掉為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算因為以過去九個月來 事實上你們花掉的其實都絕對大概只有二三十億而已你還有三十幾億的經費所以說我們也覺得很奇怪這段時間你們是還要下鄉去做一些這個什麼委員可以問主席講 我是控管得很嚴喔"},{"start":9233.565,"end":9258.38,"text":"還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會排擠到第二預備金的用途"},{"start":9261.502,"end":9267.432,"text":"那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長不好意思主委那可以暫停嗎主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長好"},{"start":9274.565,"end":9286.212,"text":"還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用精進計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算計劃改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%"},{"start":9302.122,"end":9319.346,"text":"那根據本席查過之後該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數所以預算都還沒有執行為什麼要追加4億多報告委員我再回應一下因為網路流量科的部分的話一定要等到全額到位的時候才對喔 你們在7月8號已經針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案"},{"start":9337.593,"end":9339.055,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":9349.619,"end":9356.183,"text":"好 謝謝徐宇臻委員指詢 謝謝卓院長 三觀部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請陳廷飛委員指詢賴世保委員請準備謝謝院長 我們是不是請卓院長備詢謝謝"},{"start":9381.389,"end":9407.725,"text":"陳國元好院長我覺得追加預算的內容大家可以討論但是如果用一竿子打翻一傳人說這個根本不需要追加預算啦你們提出來是浪費公堂這部分我無法接受這878.4億的部分我相信這裡面如果把它用各部會的數額然後就說你怎麼會編這麼多"},{"start":9409.286,"end":9434.844,"text":"但請問有沒有看到裡面的細項這裡面的細項都是我們一直在媒體當中在質疑行政院在質疑執政黨的我們現在把它回編回來用追加預算有什麼不對我們就說大家都認為原住民保留地進法補償很需要很需要都用這個來質疑我們很需要所以我們用追加預算把它編進來"},{"start":9435.965,"end":9442.943,"text":"有何錯誤再來提升國軍的待遇這個部分他們常常說我們不重視國軍"},{"start":9444.707,"end":9460.833,"text":"可是我們從穩固我們的國防戰力然後給我們的志願群務加級戰鬥部隊的加級資訊勤務的加級電訊偵測官兵勤務加級還有戰航官兵勤務加級"},{"start":9466.535,"end":9475.382,"text":"這個部分從加急的部分來提升我們的國軍待遇甚至來協助我們的國防部海委會等等請問"},{"start":9477.908,"end":9501.64,"text":"這有什麼不對這有必要嗎有必要啊因為沒有編進去的時候他一直用這個打我們說我們不重視國軍所以我們要不要追加預算當然要追加預算把我們砍掉了然後說我們不重視這好不好笑很好笑然後呢我們的外交執行量呢這重不重要沒有錢你怎麼做外交"},{"start":9502.731,"end":9526.616,"text":"你沒有執行怎麼做外交而且現在國際情勢變化的這麼大我們要不要做外交 要啊我們要對外讓人家看到我們台灣的光看到我們台灣的亮能所以外交的執行量很重要我們要變這一筆預算要11億再來其實最重要的"},{"start":9527.574,"end":9551.041,"text":"就是每個縣市都在罵你說行政院怎麼可以刪我們的一般補助奇怪了一方面要罵現在要把他追加預算撥補回來他們也在罵那到底是怎麼一回事所以這個一般補助要不要要不要編要編了"},{"start":9552.079,"end":9572.482,"text":"在行政院院會都有跟列席的地方首長請他們支持也請他們該縣市的委員能夠支持讓我們一起把這個事情解決把這個問題解決嘛一開始每個縣市的縣市首長都開記者會罵行政院說這個不能刪好啊那不能刪"},{"start":9573.803,"end":9598.244,"text":"符合大家的意思全部把它用追加預算追回來這有什麼不對再來就是我們自己本身從我們行政院要來協助各地方的部分這個部分重不重要很重要啊這部分如果我們沒有編的話這裡面有多少治水"},{"start":9599.266,"end":9620.544,"text":"就是他們講的從內政部從我們的農業部經濟部的部分來我們農業這個內政部的部分這內政部這個下水道管理污水下水道還有相關的治水建設現在我們的抽水站都做了但是"},{"start":9621.843,"end":9645.752,"text":"院長 我們的抽水站基本上都是後面來偵測的也就是我們認為現在要韌性治水我們必須要有抽水站來做強硬的一個抽水就是從內水抽到外水但是我們這些抽水站都是我們現在找尋適合的位置所設置出來的"},{"start":9646.752,"end":9671.328,"text":"但是我們現在必須靠著我們的排水相含慢慢地把水 慢慢地能夠排到我們的抽水站這樣它比較有水啦 比較有水啦不會說裡面在淹水結果抽水站在抽水 抽不到水因為你要把所有的排水系統都往我們的抽水站下去做建設"},{"start":9672.953,"end":9678.505,"text":"這就是為什麼內政部現在非常重要就是我們的排水系統 湘寒系統"},{"start":9680.071,"end":9706.034,"text":"所以我覺得現在國民黨一直講說這個如果再用追加預算把它撥回來算我們的整個三減預算數是史上最低這什麼理由啊我們編的預算就是必要性只是因為你們有一些思考方向跟我們的執政黨不一樣所以你們把它刪除掉"},{"start":9706.815,"end":9729.336,"text":"但是就是因為我們認為現在非常需要尤其這幾個颱風下來這幾個好雨下來這已經都沒有辦法用我們現在的狀況去預估現在是極端氣候所以第二預備金他說四個月我覺得四個月如果沒有預備四五十億在那邊等"},{"start":9730.396,"end":9752.436,"text":"什麼時候要發生問題不知道耶我們要預備萬一啦我們當然希望平安無事對 我們希望平安無事最好啊我們有這個比較充裕的時候就可以幫助更多對 我們四五十億最好最後都沒有用到還到國庫這是最好可是我們沒有辦法沒有預備這個如果今天沒有特別預算這幾十萬你要開料啊"},{"start":9753.917,"end":9779.339,"text":"對不對這是因為丹納斯颱風跟豪雨有特別預算說我們編了600億如果沒有這600億你這第二季北京炸的不夠了啦沒有錯而且是缺很大是不是所以我覺得因為有整個趨勢的改變你不能說用現代的狀況然後說請問你四個月你可以開五六十億嗎"},{"start":9782.54,"end":9810.291,"text":"我再次強調這不是一年用比例來算該用多少我們還是很管控的現在是極端氣候現在是極端氣候我再次強調現在是極端氣候任何人都沒有辦法跟天去做比賽我們一定要預備很多的資源隨時做人民最後的一個支持我們當然再次強調我們不希望"},{"start":9811.943,"end":9836.316,"text":"我們有任何的天災需要去用到這筆錢可是我們必須要準備所以在這個部分我們一直強調的滯水為什麼那麼重要院長你有去看到曾文熙你有去看曾文熙的分紅去見證可是我當下也跟院長強調17年"},{"start":9839.601,"end":9852.647,"text":"從我第一年擔任立委我們一直在做這些整治到分紅你看總經費是87.76億總長是多少12.57公里完成治理的10.37公里含橋樑改建總金額是58.93億再來"},{"start":9864.633,"end":9888.243,"text":"因為我們多做了12天的疏洪相含就是我們的分洪我們把壓力解除掉所以這裡面多少19億院長你當天站的那個地方就是19億然後現在我說的最後一里路就是在去年剛好年底核准的2.2公里的部分總共多少10億"},{"start":9891.115,"end":9914.855,"text":"所以你知道過去在12點就是您站的位置12點幾乎電視媒體一定都報因為他幾乎都要三天退水時間要三天我都去上便當我都倒了水然後趕快把一些我們的弱勢朋友趕快把他移出來"},{"start":9917.142,"end":9929.416,"text":"當時我們這段時間都在做這些事情包括現在宮廷寮那天里長就說剛好現在在做這些最後一里路的工程所以他們這次沒有淹水"},{"start":9931.181,"end":9954.131,"text":"所以院長為什麼我一直強調治水預算一定要一次到位而且不只這些我必須講的這裡面還有什麼你知道在這一段時間我們八八大家都說我們一開去到位我可以一點一滴跟大家說我可以講三天三夜因為大家沒了解過"},{"start":9955.595,"end":9979.769,"text":"大家所看到的都是現在的狀況可是我們一路來走了那麼久包括當時候八八水災的時候你知道安南區整片淹水北區整片淹水都是我的選區可是現在沒有了我們做了多少包括抽水站包括湘涵包括大小排水"},{"start":9980.919,"end":9990.762,"text":"我們走了多久錢就是花在這裡然後大家看到的安中和現在也沒有了這也是湘寒"},{"start":9992.233,"end":10019.771,"text":"再來 我們所看到的整個安南區就是用抽水站在湘海把它做一個整治因為它是古柏龍啊以前這些都是自然的海綿有溫度 有冷凍 都會滴水現在沒有了現在都蓋房子起來了還有北區也是一樣我小時候就住在陰水的地方啦爸爸你知道嗎 家裡在陰水我們是放著 然後"},{"start":10021.092,"end":10047.577,"text":"請消防車趕快幫我們載出去因為地方的地緣關係我們最清楚哪邊淹水哪邊需要送便當我們最清楚我們是用橡皮艇然後把便當掛到二樓那是這樣一路走過來的文賢路一帶整個然後包括我們南區還有仁德山野溪都是一樣都是當時候這樣一次而定我們看了多少次"},{"start":10048.772,"end":10057.399,"text":"可是為什麼都要這樣傷害我們說我們的治水預算花到哪裡去了如果沒有這些治水預算我相信"},{"start":10058.786,"end":10079.531,"text":"我們沒有辦法讓我們人民更有感因為有可能我們淹水的範圍更大現在我們是一直在縮 把淹水範圍縮小包括我們的做制洪池你覺得在中共共產黨一個制洪池就把他們所有的裡內的問題全部解決"},{"start":10080.922,"end":10097.592,"text":"在地滯洪的觀念必須要推動下去沒錯 所以本來就是要用新的概念去解決現在目前新舊部落的一個承接問題這個是沒有辦法的從永康 淹水面積說真的 院長"},{"start":10098.573,"end":10116.065,"text":"我覺得如果要說我們治水預算花到哪裡去的同時請把舊資料翻出來看從88一路來我們88特別條例然後在我們的前瞻然後現在我馬上又要編一個延續性的"},{"start":10116.505,"end":10129.566,"text":"未來有四年一千億而且針對的是縣市管河川的改善過去都是中央管河川中央做縣市管河川縣市做我們補助這是我們是全部把縣市管河川我們希望解決"},{"start":10130.828,"end":10146.042,"text":"源頭或是末端的這些問題以後委員不要那麼辛苦幫助那麼多辛苦的國人院長你這個真的太重要你知道嗎為什麼曾文希排水會17年因為他中央管排特別預算只能補助縣市管排"},{"start":10146.542,"end":10175.124,"text":"就是這樣子中央縣市分道陽標變成沒有辦法整合如果我們未來這一千億四年一千億你知道我們可以有多少可以一次到位來解決地方的治水問題明年我們編了一百四十七億雖然在中央財政目前因為新財化法非常拮据的情況底下我們還是跟委員說的一樣該做的優先做必須要做的中央還是把治水列為很重要的優先工作"},{"start":10175.66,"end":10199.194,"text":"院長從小就住在一個會淹水的地方從小你可不可以知道我們的第一件事就是爸爸媽媽叫你走起來我跟姑姑因為喝醉了 他們要把他墊高然後一路來從議員到立委我們所看到的就是怎麼把我們的淹水面積把它縮小"},{"start":10200.134,"end":10220.866,"text":"我們第一時間到現場會看我們知道會被罵可是我們可以了解問題出在哪裡這才是最重要的所以治水預算真的很重要我們要拜託不能再有任何刪減的問題所以這個我們會全力支持請委員跟大院委員共同來支持這些必要的預算"},{"start":10221.266,"end":10249.929,"text":"然後院長從這一次其實風災的部分我想有幾個我們要成為任性城市任性國家我們的電纜地下化要拜託這個一定要做這個不能不做因為電纜地下化你看倒了光台南2000多支的電感這個部分不做不行還有我們地下管線供購的問題因為我們目前很多的地下管線的圖資並沒有建立起來"},{"start":10251.19,"end":10272.716,"text":"所以如何建立我們的圖資這很重要還有我們的通訊防災在我們通訊防災的SOP就是在災前的預防我們如何備齊所有的我們的行動基地台然後在如果發生災情的時候我們要怎麼第一線到地方"},{"start":10273.576,"end":10283.542,"text":"我們的地圖 我們所有的配置該怎麼做這些一定要做這才能成為任性城市 任性國家這個要拜託院長"},{"start":10297.028,"end":10318.71,"text":"接下來我們在一場二樓旁聽來自各大專院校參加2025年模擬立法院所有營隊的同學們我們掌聲歡迎各位同學接下來我們請賴世寶委員質詢翁曉琳委員請準備"},{"start":10323.506,"end":10351.951,"text":"謝謝主席韓院長 卓院長以及各位先進那麼有請這個卓院長以及財政部的莊部長麻煩請卓院長財政部備詢代理委員好兩位長官好那麼最新的一個外媒報導"},{"start":10354.808,"end":10372.873,"text":"說這個川普要對全世界國家對美國的高科技的公司課數位稅他要用增加關稅來反制我就請教莊部長我們有沒有課數位稅"},{"start":10374.487,"end":10394.515,"text":"目前為止我們並沒有所謂的課數位他這裡面數位是這樣子你要把它仔細弄清楚他是線上就是說比如說Meta他的線上廣告的服務數位的媒介服務平台服務都有在台灣都有做你們不是要課稅嗎"},{"start":10396.115,"end":10421.366,"text":"這不是數位稅嗎我們目前對於境外的電商確實有課相關的稅有啊但數位服務稅是沒有課所以台灣要請院長交代副院長如果川普這個事情的時候說台灣是沒有課數位稅否則他要報復了好 那個莊部長請回"},{"start":10425.56,"end":10437.433,"text":"我要提到這一次的追加預算追加預算我們看到追加預算其實就是借私還魂"},{"start":10438.905,"end":10467.902,"text":"把我們原來立法院刪掉的經過刪讀的你一個一個藉這個機會把它要回來所以老實講這個立法院也讓你進來然後也跟你討論其實立法院展現善意的謝謝我希望我們能夠理性討論給個mercy但是你不能夠這個藉機啊就這樣子卡油不好啦那個卓院長來我給你算一個算清楚啦"},{"start":10469.485,"end":10489.634,"text":"我們來看我們去年總共刪減了2075億扣掉台電1000億只有1075億1075億你要878億如果通用給你就剩下197億一除以你收進來3.1兆等於0.63%史上最低的"},{"start":10494.654,"end":10512.968,"text":"裡面有幾項新增預算請委員要算進去史上過去10年最低的就是去年1%所以我給1%來做標準的話應該要3314億"},{"start":10515.906,"end":10534.983,"text":"310億以現在來講的話我們現在來講的話已經剩下197所以310億減掉197你這一次的878億我們最少要算113億才符合才符合一趴那我告訴你院長你先不要急"},{"start":10536.264,"end":10560.458,"text":"我們因為審理的追加預算特別幫我們時間我們這個朝野協商幫我們排到排的時間好趕我就一天禮拜四我當召委我要排質詢還有質詢完畢以後 詢答完畢以後審查一般預算 審查機密預算又要詢答 又要審查"},{"start":10561.479,"end":10585.046,"text":"一天我那天可能到12點謝謝委員再次表示感謝我跟你講我們這樣用心在處理可是院長老實講你這個吃立法院夠不夠這不是好的舞蹈模式來你聽我講因為老實講我們回過來第二章因為636億我跟你講我這樣審已經被外面學者罵臭頭"},{"start":10591.425,"end":10619.215,"text":"被學者罵臭頭被輿論罵臭頭為什麼這樣子他說你們在外黨大贏代表你們砍預算社會是支持的啊為什麼你們完全配合這個民進黨呼嚕呼嚕呼嚕呼嚕開快車都沒有好好審查外界質疑外界罵我啊學者罵我啊打電話來罵我啊政大教授打電話來罵我台大教授打電話來罵我你是怎樣啦"},{"start":10620.307,"end":10647.202,"text":"怎麼會怎麼會你們照理講你們是銀方啊怎麼會完全因為國家還是要我們合作國家往前走為什麼Police 我不知道為什麼為什麼把時間定的這麼窄我就一天的時間要巡打然後要處理沒有人這麼好的啦沒有人這麼好的所以我們只能拜託大家委員我現在就告訴你我現在就告訴你我們就很簡單"},{"start":10648.547,"end":10663.279,"text":"大科目處理 黨團大科目處理什麼錢該給你 回到第一章什麼 我再一次講過了什麼錢可以給你636億可以給你其他我也是不同意的喔因為636是你們刪掉不應該刪"},{"start":10666.974,"end":10688.991,"text":"啊 你們刪掉了然後呢 我們現在給你代表你們刪的對那就我們不對啦 代表我們不對啦我們共同來解決問題 謝謝委員代表我們不對啦來 我先跟你講 我們整個來看的話呢就是什麼 就是636億軍人加薪60億 要給進法補償23.4億 要給公投10億 要給"},{"start":10693.74,"end":10703.344,"text":"其他剩下145億照理講要全部砍那我還客氣一點外交的部分我請委員再斟酌外交的部分你們也不需要了"},{"start":10704.502,"end":10732.856,"text":"因為有些 他這裡面有一些場館設備啊確實是需要整建的外交的設備啊 我只有砍兩我只有砍七億多啦我們有委員等一下要私信了他全部砍掉 二十一億全部砍掉我都支持他 他砍得比我更準我就砍七億 他砍二十一億等一下下一位委員就要執行這個請委員再審慎的看看內容對於外交人員以及一些硬體設備現在我就告訴你 我堅持"},{"start":10734.417,"end":10755.402,"text":"我們不能夠立法院出去以後被人家吐口水說啊你現在都贏了還要這樣百般的好像奉承立行政院怎麼會這個樣子呢照理講我們這樣可以抬頭行兇我們都贏了怎麼變成一個小綿羊不敢動你這個不敢動你那個我就主張最少3113億"},{"start":10757.262,"end":10777.513,"text":"這樣才有一趴而已喔 這樣我才一趴而已所以院長你回去認真去思考 處紀長什麼地方可以刪 113億包委讓我說明一下好不好因為我們當初本來刪了400多億嘛那如果減掉133億這個部分沒有刪 因為我們這次提報"},{"start":10780.555,"end":10803.78,"text":"恢復的部分就是133億那這133億大部分都是指定三減譬如說出國經費他指定三六十億那很多單位他是覺得執行有困難那所以這個部分需要恢復的部分所以這是細節的部分但是133億縱使你把它恢復他也是達到三減百分之一的一趴"},{"start":10805.26,"end":10818.621,"text":"我們立法院有預算中心他就噴起立法院的委員我覺得很丟臉他說你們現在只有30.6億如果你全部給他你們實質"},{"start":10820.664,"end":10824.626,"text":"這133億當中有道路交通的"},{"start":10847.476,"end":10863.49,"text":"這個建設還有農業部的防洪智山防洪的消費請他們先不要講話讓我講完可以嗎讓我講完好不好我都仔細看了謝謝讓我講完到現在為止878億如果都給你一毛錢沒刪那就是0.63立法院的預算中心"},{"start":10873.547,"end":10888.167,"text":"噴擠啊學者噴擠啊媒體噴擠啊在野黨失職在野黨贏了本來贏了怎麼被小民養軟趴趴的我看了好難過我在野黨的意願而且第二個時間把我壓縮得這麼緊"},{"start":10891.287,"end":10915.216,"text":"時間包圍要說一天可以處理我是趙薇還要我自身我知道怎麼處理我可以handle我願意幫忙但是院長不可以遲鈍勾勾為什麼遲鈍勾勾我們再看下一張你知道嗎你們追加一項怎麼編的居然有編100萬以下有77個單位編就是我上次跟你講的"},{"start":10916.687,"end":10944.482,"text":"難怪人家會講啊 就到處你家每個部會都隨便提啊第一個高檢署 法務部的高檢署最佳2.3萬 笑死人了再來勞動基金運用局最佳6.1億民用航空局最佳8億國家圖書館最佳10億再來智慧財產商院的法院最佳10億"},{"start":10946.086,"end":10973.136,"text":"笑死人啦這個一百萬元以下你們可以追加都沒錢這樣這個就是什麼就是因為你要求他們編歐北編的這還要更離譜來來來你再看來來先不要急不要急主席拜託讓他們先不要講話來還有什麼一萬塊以下的追加多少衛福部增加四千塊啊"},{"start":10975.134,"end":11001.053,"text":"追加四千塊也在追加經濟部追加四千勞動部增加四千國發會增加六千入委會不要急入委會增加八千農業部增加一萬你怎麼好意思追加預算五千塊六千塊也在追加衛福部我們這次審查預算讓你們增加306億"},{"start":11003.311,"end":11020.464,"text":"讓你增加306億結果你要增加4000塊然後勞動部給你增加57億結果你要增加4000塊結果國發會增加8.76億你要增加6000塊農業部增加63億總預算你增加1萬各位"},{"start":11023.899,"end":11048.95,"text":"我們這樣子追加拿得出來嗎 蔡院長 更小啊你這個幾千塊也要追加 我都不好意思刪啦這個不只要是指令刪減 而且禁止流用那這個不照常 四千塊不是 但是有一些是屬於主管的一個特別會的不怕金額就不大 丟臉丟屎啦我們限制他 副機長 丟臉丟屎啦我們只能限制他丟臉丟屎啦 對不對 你看一個衛護部增加四千塊"},{"start":11052.283,"end":11068.836,"text":"一定不增加4000塊請委員在未來審查的時候詳細的看一下也請各部會能提出說明他們依照現在被刪減之後所造成的困難予以著補回來而已那如果委員認為哪一項不合理"},{"start":11069.136,"end":11085.762,"text":"我們當然接受 但是請容許容許各部會 容許不要定這個數字來刪啦是要用政策來刪除不是 不要用定數字來刪除"},{"start":11087.442,"end":11113.677,"text":"預算中心一直在罵你訂一個數字那一定要刪到那個程度這樣不好 我說用政策政策的推動來刪除 合理的刪除你當過立委你也知道我們不會去訂一個數字再來刪我們跟老柯就先講好一個總額大概都是1%左右有時候1.2% 有時候1.1%那這一次比較特殊 這次沒有先框起來以前就是老柯跟我們先框起來"},{"start":11114.838,"end":11136.809,"text":"就不會有那種老哥後來盤古開天亂鬧一通鬧得整個新台會都是亂七八糟的他就是盤國開天開始講起他這一次沒有狂起來但是以前我在這裡這麼久以前每年預算審查我都在他都先框一個總額大家再來談細項"},{"start":11139.651,"end":11164.168,"text":"總額談都是1%起跳沒有沒有1%的 到現在為止878億給你就是剩0.63不可能通通給你 那要算多少最少113 起來1%而已1%是史上最低的 史上最低就1%如果今天通通878都給你的話那就0.63 那史上最低的最低的最低的最低的"},{"start":11164.908,"end":11189.057,"text":"這樣子丟臉丟屎的以前都可以自行調整那現在都限定不准留用所以這就是因為它有限制不能留用所以就是你指定三年的項目就會變成有它的調整的一個困難而且還指定項目我的目標就是最少113最好是120到130最好130的話可以到1.1%然後然後客戶讓你自行調整"},{"start":11193.539,"end":11207.567,"text":"我還是建議委員不要用設定數字我們看他的政策推動的需要與否這樣會比較真實因為你這個追加預算完全就是就像行政院多了多少把它拿回來的你多了31億"},{"start":11209.008,"end":11227.915,"text":"外交部多了幾億啊 還有媒體多了4億多 剛才委員都提到了那個都是 我約了3年1塊錢 你要5塊錢回來沒有 我們並沒有增加啊都增加了 有啊 行政院增加30億我們只是增加133億 扣掉新增的部分之外"},{"start":11228.815,"end":11249.761,"text":"我們還是三減 應該兩百多億行政院主管有包括中選會有包括園民會所以他們就會變成有一些相關的經費增加我們說行政院主管的範圍相當大行政院增加了最多三十億但是院本部裡面沒有增加這麼多我講的增加是增加跟減掉扣掉的是淨增加"},{"start":11257.605,"end":11276.778,"text":"好 謝謝賴世保委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長相關部會所長備詢 謝謝接下來登記第九位賴會員委員之質詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報再接下來我們請登記第十號翁曉琳委員質詢吳麗華委員請準備"},{"start":11285.417,"end":11288.341,"text":"主席好 在這邊有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":11299.108,"end":11325.118,"text":"黃委員好院長好我在這邊很快講幾個重點第一個就是我們知道其實一百一十四年我們中央政府總預算案可以說是創下歷史新高那麼在一百一十四年我們通過了兩兆九千兩百五十億比十年前的預算多了一兆什麼叫一兆的概念就是一萬個億那麼如果我們平均台灣兩千四百"},{"start":11326.618,"end":11351.744,"text":"2340萬的人口的話平均每個人每年交給政府12.7萬的管理費一家四口大概就是交了差不多50萬的管理費給政府去管理去治理可是你們看看民進黨政府執政這九年大概是揮霍誠信所以就不知道說要量入為出要勤儉持家還記得這個童子賢董事長他之前還在講"},{"start":11352.344,"end":11375.922,"text":"我們明明就可以花一塊多的電的成本去買核電你偏偏要用這個貴了四五倍的錢去買綠電去製造綠電然後或者是說兩三倍的錢去買天然氣所以由此可見現在賴政府就是不會持家卓院長您認為您是個好管家嗎您會持家嗎您會量入為出嗎"},{"start":11376.857,"end":11401.995,"text":"我們真的量入為出啊而且國家的經濟成長是相當明顯的我們今年已經突破26兆的整體GDP說實在話 您認為您會執交我還真的是覺得你是往臉上貼金我們知道現在民眾普遍認為這一年來賴總統上任這一年多來台灣是風不調雨 不睡國不嘆"},{"start":11403.496,"end":11415.457,"text":"民不安我們看到卓內閣的政績似乎是只有政治惡鬥搞大罷免尤其是823之後大家其實民眾期待要重新組閣那卓院長你會繼續留任嗎"},{"start":11416.92,"end":11437.367,"text":"我有向總統提出應該負起政治責任總統希望把過去的工作能夠繼續的延續也未來破壞新的計畫希望局勢能夠穩定下來如果說您繼續留任大概也就是老狗並不做什麼新把戲未來就是跟立法院的互動仍然是至愛難行 負應 釋懈到不執行"},{"start":11439.209,"end":11453.35,"text":"這對行政院來講都是被動的其實在這一次行政院這邊提出了最佳預算就本席看來基本上根本就是不合法違法我們知道其實提出最佳預算最重要的法源依據是什麼"},{"start":11455.137,"end":11479.482,"text":"是预算法第七十九条对啊就是预算法七十九条跟八十条嘛对不对尤其是追加预算的这个预算法在七十九条里面讲得很清楚有四个要件而在四个要件里面大概我认为除了就是我们现在讲的这个要补贴禁法补偿条例还有军人以及海巡人员的这些这个"},{"start":11480.582,"end":11501.53,"text":"加擠預算經費是可以符合現在的預算法第79條第4項依有關法律應補列追加預算其餘的部分現在行政院提出的施政計畫這100多億根本就不符合預算法第79條的規定請問是有發生什麼重大事故嗎"},{"start":11503.439,"end":11527.208,"text":"我們有發生重大事故嗎我們在今天有超過法定預算的編列嗎你們提出的三足預算過於龐大集中特定項目不準流用重大事故所以請教我們過去曾有前例在過往的時候行政立法兩院曾經用過這一條來解決預算上面的問題所以我想請問對卓院長您來說什麼樣子的三減比例才叫做合理的比例"},{"start":11527.668,"end":11543.786,"text":"我從來不以比例來衡量是一毛都不能刪嗎所以我們這次刪的已經是不要用三減比例三減比例不是拿來競爭用的我要講的就是說這次你們所提的預算基本上是"},{"start":11547.85,"end":11559.997,"text":"符合預算法裡面第79條所講的因為重大事故發生重大事故經費超過法定預算好我們在這邊呢很快再舉幾個例子因為其他的委員其實也都講了我就不再重複"},{"start":11561.567,"end":11578.225,"text":"我要特别讲就是以这个中选会的这个案子来说你明明他过去办理选举罢免共同的经费全部都是透过动用第二预备金而且你们已经也核定了现在又再重新编列追加预算这样合理吗"},{"start":11579.252,"end":11599.731,"text":"你們是想要透露嗎 我剛剛答覆過了第二位備軍有他更法定需要的用途沒有委員形容這個是救命點那如果追加預算通過的話 我們就歸電你這個追加預算的前提是什麼你要有一個法定預算 你才能追加"},{"start":11600.552,"end":11622.121,"text":"你中選會之前根本沒有編這筆預算你怎麼追加最終是犯了邏輯的錯誤他不曉得有沒有公投案他怎麼去編我要講就是說您回去好好去讀一下什麼叫追加預算他前提就是要有一個法定預算你有新增業務的號才能夠追加預算所以中選會的這個編列根本也是違法的追加預算編列也是違法的話再說回來"},{"start":11623.722,"end":11640.32,"text":"對於地方性的補助款我們這次你們提出來要追加636億我要再次強調立法院從來沒有刪過地方政府的一般性補助款當時就是依照地方政府的一般性補助款所通過的在"},{"start":11641.481,"end":11656.272,"text":"總統也都已經公告了所以這個是你們自己行政院你們不自己不把這個636億自己去做機關裡面的內部的這個雲芝而是把這個三姐全部都轉嫁到地方政府去我要講的就是這樣子的做法"},{"start":11656.992,"end":11673.385,"text":"是非常遏止根本就是違法的當然因為我想在立法院這邊大家還是有很多選區委員大家已經看到地方政府現在受災受難很多的弱勢的民眾是非常非常辛苦的所以"},{"start":11674.4,"end":11699.635,"text":"即便我再怎麼不認同我認為這個根本就是違法的追加可是如果說未來假設有通過的話我想這個部分也要告訴清楚告訴卓院長這並不代表說你們是合法的這是違法的編列我還在強調像違法的編列而如果說這個通過的話我們想講就是說你們現在所作所為你們就是一個國家級的擄人勒鼠你們"},{"start":11701.416,"end":11727.975,"text":"就是把這個地方政府把這些弱勢民眾當成你們的政治肉票然後用來威脅國會這是非常非常糟糕的一件事情什麼叫做擄人勒鼠我覺得你們現在行政院做的就是這樣的事情好 然後我最後還要再講就是你們就算是認為說有追加預算的必要請主席上 不好意思你們這次追加預算請主席上"},{"start":11732.796,"end":11760.075,"text":"你們這次追加預算的方式有比照中央政府總預算的編列方式嗎有啊因為這個部分當初被刪減的部分我要講好你們有提供三個表格嗎你們有提供中央政府機關稅出二級用途科目分析表嗎你們有提出中央政府機關資本支出分析表嗎你們有提出中央政府各機關資本支出分析總表嗎"},{"start":11761.849,"end":11776.687,"text":"我們都依照我告訴你我們沒有看到我們立法院預算中心也沒有看到所以你們根本沒有依照預算法第82條裡面追加預算的編造審議及執行程序要准用總預算的規定"},{"start":11777.95,"end":11801.454,"text":"我們自己也有追加預算追加把關的但是坦白說你們透過你們這樣子的這個便利預算的方式真的是非常的簡略粗暴草率因為我們看不出來你們現在這個用的經費是用在什麼地方更何況我剛講了追加預算重要是他要有重大事故發生重大事故你們哪一個項目的內容裡面說你們是發生了什麼重大的事故"},{"start":11801.874,"end":11830.584,"text":"因為他有限制有可能性就是因為你們自己覺得說你們不服氣立法院所給你們刪的預算不是是因為執行困難是真的過去難道都沒有預算被刪減嗎沒有刪減這麼多這是過去是已經要翻頁了你們當初提起了復議而且復議也被我們否決了所以這個根本不構成追加預算的理由好到最後我要講就是"},{"start":11832.742,"end":11860.047,"text":"我很遺憾我看到你們這次所編的預算真的是不僅預算回編不該編的項目譬如說人事費的項目本來不該編你們也編然後呢一些這個金毛帥皮一些小錢你們也是編剛剛賴思榜委員已經講得很清楚所以我在這邊要講我會嚴格把關你們的最佳預算不該通過的就不通過好以上謝謝謝謝翁小林委員的質詢謝謝謝謝卓院長相關部會所長備詢謝謝"},{"start":11874.96,"end":11878.022,"text":"好 接下來我們請登記最後一位 武力華為 請繼續謝謝主席院長 麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":11898.248,"end":11919.358,"text":"吳委員好院長好 辛苦了我查了一下歷年來如果是風災的災後重建特別條例有兩個一個是16年前2009年的穆拉克風災另外一個就是我們剛剛完成三堵的丹納斯紀728豪雨的災後重建特別條例"},{"start":11920.278,"end":11930.042,"text":"院長您可以看一下我有準備PPT這上頭有許多的照片第一個就是我們回看2009年的莫拉克風災當時"},{"start":11932.148,"end":11954.945,"text":"我們在媒體上先看到被披露的是關於林邊鄉海邊那個地方淹大水包括餘溫都沒有了但是我們也看到這一次在丹納斯728豪雨同樣的嘉南地區就是淹大水有很多因為強風的關係民宅屋頂被掀開慘不忍睹"},{"start":11957.347,"end":11982.713,"text":"那我們再回看當時的山區的災況可以看到也是非常的慘烈但是是隔了一個禮拜之後慢慢慢慢那個畫面才傳出來我們才曉得說原來莫納科造成這麼大的災害於是開啟了這個重建條例那我們現在來看現在這一次的這個風災它所造成的災害其實也差不多"},{"start":11983.473,"end":12011.549,"text":"那樣的畫面呢重複當年的一個景象山坡竟然部落可以淹大水路斷掉土石流呢進房子我們也可以看到有很多的地方是地基掏空那其實從嘉義阿里山到高雄所有的原鄉屏東台東有災害的原鄉我大概都利用我的空檔我陸陸續續都去過那我很難過的就是我親眼看到"},{"start":12013.07,"end":12021.085,"text":"這樣的一個造成部落的路段這些衛生所的主任他們要背著藥材他們要去"},{"start":12022.386,"end":12046.452,"text":"我也看到我們這些災民看到我來就會抱著我哭好像看到救星我也看到這一些工程人員我只不過輕輕的跟他們說辛苦了喔他們就忍不住面對我掉下眼淚所以我可以感受得到大家的壓力非常的大但是我要講的是今天主委在這邊"},{"start":12047.679,"end":12064.119,"text":"其實從莫拉克風災之後經歷16年有太多的災害至今根本無人聞聞就算計畫提報都被放生所以我們當時看到莫拉克重建條例有1200億的規模"},{"start":12066.101,"end":12080.681,"text":"民間投入260億如果用物價指數去轉換大概現在是1800億那民間的投入大概四五百億我們這一次丹納斯原本是560億我個人的版本是提到600億為什麼"},{"start":12082.603,"end":12102.56,"text":"因為我知道山區災害復原的狀況絕對不是這樣的錢就可以處理的來的甚至我也關心到有一些村呢它這些年一直重複治災但是再也沒有人關心他們到底要不要遷村要搬到哪裡要如何安置"},{"start":12103.18,"end":12127.197,"text":"所以我自己的版本裡面我也希望能夠做法律授權的謙孫但是很可惜就是沒有被處理到可是我要請院長看一下我其實想要提的是這些年的原鄉很可憐我們看一下不論是一般的縣市或者是六都一般的縣市要仰賴中央補助這些鄉公所大概都要到五成六成以上"},{"start":12128.138,"end":12151.243,"text":"那些六都的園區更恐怖他要仰賴中央甚至高達九成可是我們的才化法修法之後我不斷的呼籲過去是我爸媽不疼我我跟中央的爺爺奶奶要可是現在爺爺奶奶告訴我你的錢我已經給你爸爸媽媽了可是爸爸媽媽依然不愛我我們園鄉怎麼辦"},{"start":12153.188,"end":12167.573,"text":"我們就因為人口少我們沒有可以依賴的長輩所以呢我請院長你感受一下這個照片這個是2009年莫拉科的時候這個是高雄茂林區的萬山部落"},{"start":12168.473,"end":12192.039,"text":"你看那一大片的大崩塌 他們沒有被遷村每一年我去查了 中央就給他們兩百萬 五百萬做邊坡那一些邊坡的住戶啊 非常非常的惶恐特別是莫拉克之後 所有土石流淺市區動不動災害應變中心一成立 相公所就要大家撤村"},{"start":12192.819,"end":12221.739,"text":"很多是無法動談癱瘓的老人家他們都說我就寧可死在這裡拜託不要讓我們去撤村不要讓我們安置大家非常的痛苦苦不堪言可是你看我當了立委我幫他們兩期爭取到水利署每一期不到五千萬你看一個不到一億的工程他們的居民非常的高興"},{"start":12223.188,"end":12244.629,"text":"你再看一下這個是竹尾的原鄉這個山地門鄉是屏東最大的原鄉他們本來有自來水系統但是莫拉克風災把路弄斷了之後這16年來他供應的山地村 德文村 達萊村都要自己去接水源"},{"start":12246.087,"end":12263.058,"text":"我很感動那時候我跑去找公共工程委員會的主委吳哲成政委他講了一句話我很感動他說如果我們把武藝投入在台北市連個波浪都看不到但是如果我們可以投入在原鄉就可以掀起美麗的波瀾"},{"start":12264.58,"end":12291.774,"text":"雖然還沒有完工但是我很感謝我現在要跟院長說的是很多原鄉的災害排不到年度預算排不到災害預備金也等不到特別統計條例就這麼樣一直擱著如果是南橫他因為要通到台東他是重要的工程我們可以看到這十幾年來政府投入幾百億重複治災我們是不是要思考一下工程該怎麼做"},{"start":12292.844,"end":12318.056,"text":"我給我們的院長你看一下這個畫面是在高雄復興禮這是里長他好高興那時候連日豪雨通訊都已經斷了他到有通訊的地方傳照片給我他說委員謝謝你因為我在3月去那個地方衛商他跟議員看到我趕快來跟我澄清說這次的汛期我們第30一定會滅村"},{"start":12320.08,"end":12344.647,"text":"果然他說拜託給我做那個第二層護岸我趕快找我們的水保署第二層護岸做起來他好高興果不其然跟他的想法一樣這一次花了三個月馬上蓋起來的第二層護岸保護了我們所有的第三齡住戶那我也給院長看一下這個畫面這個畫面地基掏空啊"},{"start":12345.783,"end":12366.625,"text":"這不是部落的錯所有的部落都有這樣的問題其實我們很清楚知道這些年原鄉不是合法建地我們很難爭取政府的經費根本沒有給我們做排水幾十年來這個都是因為沒有排水設施水就地下浸流亂竄就造成地基掏空原鄉處處可見"},{"start":12368.561,"end":12388.215,"text":"因為沒有排我們做部落的排水的這樣的一個經費那我們原住民好不容易等到的國土計劃法本來今年的5月1號開始我們可以申請結果大家又透過表決把它延後6年到120年我們原鄉這6年又要繼續這樣的一個窘境"},{"start":12389.5,"end":12412.797,"text":"我給院長看一個影片在屏東獅子鄉有一個很裡面的部落叫做找不到的部落他們的村長那個時候726豪宇很驕傲的傳這個影片給我看這邊在山多爾颱風去年的山多爾颱風的時候這邊的洪水以及土石流流到部落流到部落流到路面而且有"},{"start":12413.857,"end":12429.839,"text":"地址比较低的地方都往住宅方向所以这次假了那么多天已经将近要一个礼拜当中都还看不到任何有什么堵石榴有什么水冲到马路后就像刚刚进镜因为真的是非常感谢"},{"start":12430.88,"end":12455.975,"text":"吳委員吳立華能夠幫我們改善這個事之後能夠看見這樣的他的用心院長我是故意放的他應該不用感謝吳委員吳立華他應該感謝政府應該感謝我們的水保單位委員我們跟你說明一下因為你說這個風災的問題我們下午會有個專報裡面我們這次的600億的特別預算當中屬於園民會轄管"},{"start":12457.276,"end":12483.849,"text":"相關的經費有45億但是可能要扣除那些福利啊什麼能夠到建設的可能很少有在編這個部分我就是要訴求這個那我再看一個簡單的圖片這個也是春日鄉的一個村長他是深藍的但是他好開心為什麼這個工程不過才不到100萬他告訴我說委員這邊年年淹水不對啦要在上面做節水"},{"start":12484.429,"end":12504.195,"text":"一個不到一百萬的工程他說這一次的豪雨連日豪雨他說完全沒有淹水他非常的高興這個是信義鄉信義鄉的一個村長 理事長他也是傳照片給我他說這一次的連日豪雨他們部落沒有土石流進來了再看一個圖片這個是春日鄉有一個電塔"},{"start":12505.796,"end":12523.53,"text":"當時110年我去會刊112年完工這一次他們也告訴我說好好喔路面乾乾淨淨這一次自栽的獅子鄉院長你知道這個嗎這是一個教會有很多民宅我受理四五年了我找什麼單位都不行為什麼因為公務單位說"},{"start":12526.223,"end":12550.699,"text":"這個是私人的黨土牆私人的土地不能用政府的錢做他是水保義務人就直到現在看到這樣的一個災況可能爆災也不過因為說沒有結構物說那個結構物是私人教會的黨土牆好現在我們再看一個這是花蓮的秀林鄉的文藍村你看密密麻麻的陳情書跟我陳情他們說這個問題已經10多年了沒有改善"},{"start":12551.559,"end":12567.698,"text":"但是他們確實不斷不斷的遭受崩塌甚至有一個人在那邊說我就在這邊等死算了政府都不管我可是我拜託我們的政府單位不到五千萬的工程你看那個照片做好了他們很開心"},{"start":12568.439,"end":12596.471,"text":"我要說的是其實強降雨是未來的氣候趨勢那我們中央也有一個災防的匯報我也看到這些年來20多年來它平均一年開兩次很多2002年的提案呢2014年還在重複的提案所以我還是要回到那句話原鄉很多的災損排不到年度預算排不到災害預備金也等不到重建條例所以我請院長是不是可以支持就是您剛剛已經"},{"start":12597.611,"end":12626.984,"text":"告訴我們我很安心就是考量原鄉地區的受災情形有這種等不到排不到的狀況是不是可以編列立刻做全部部落的排水的一個治水工程還有需要簽件的我們重新關心他因為這次的重建條例我這一條並沒有去三讀通過那我希望有一個專案的經費那也懇請院長能夠成立一個具有災害防救實權又有跨部會協調能力的一個"},{"start":12627.465,"end":12627.888,"text":"災防專責單位來 院長請"},{"start":12631.294,"end":12657.346,"text":"可不可以我跟委員報告一下我跟委員報告我們在重建條例裡面光我們研擬會就編了45.5億多的經費這裡面也有部落的聯絡道橋樑 基礎設施還有水利設施等等剛剛那個畫面你有提到大社部落我想你跟我都是大社部落的小孩子我有跟自救會在上上禮拜就跟他們直接談"},{"start":12658.166,"end":12681.124,"text":"因為除了那個聯絡道路你們講是專六線其實現在它還是線的聯絡道那我們跟縣政府一起但是我們會裡面要做的是部落裡面的一些排水設施還有它攤下來的那個地方未來這幾戶要怎麼樣來協助他們我們直接跟他們有做溝通我想他們需要什麼我們做的到的"},{"start":12681.664,"end":12697.873,"text":"其實在這個重建條例一通過之後我們立刻就來做到時候再請委員一起來協助主委還有院長我只是要轉達我們不是個案來看我們有多少的成年老案還在那邊等待政府關愛的眼神"},{"start":12698.593,"end":12723.043,"text":"那莫拉克風災這樣的一個金額都沒有辦法處理完更何況這次丹納斯的600億還包括很多社福的經費等等所以是絕對沒有辦法處理好所以我才會說拜託院長是不是能夠考量原鄉的狀況一方面能夠有特別的處理的經費二方面也希望未來能夠有一個專責單位"},{"start":12725.214,"end":12733.762,"text":"防水 治水的經費我們除了長年性的經費之外我們明年開始有四年一千億的縣市館河川我會請經濟部來"},{"start":12736.034,"end":12758.506,"text":"評估各地的優先順序是不是原鄉部落有特別的需求那他不整治好影響到下游這個對我們整治工程是一大的妨礙我會請經濟部在明年開始能夠全新的去檢討規劃院長也提醒您其實我們的三個水保單位以納瑪夏來講"},{"start":12760.387,"end":12779.406,"text":"其實現在的河川河流的界定定義已經不同於幾十年前該做討論了他們的權責的一個分數像他們分到的幾乎全部五分之四的河段都是水保單位但是水保單位要做護岸的錢沒有啊可是相對於桃園"},{"start":12780.307,"end":12800.704,"text":"他們大部分都是屬於河川署的那河川署有很多做護岸的錢啊所以兩鄉的治水就完全不一樣所以我覺得這個部分都要全面的重新來檢討我請農業部 經濟部分別來討論那麼因為這次我們在這個前進指揮所曾經的政委處理得很好我請他也能來督導"},{"start":12804.025,"end":12807.607,"text":"好 謝謝吳麗華委員持續謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝抱怨會議場二樓旁聽的來自張志倫委員邀請的大中華新聞記者友好交流協會我們掌聲鼓勵 掌聲歡迎"},{"start":12819.554,"end":12835.139,"text":"委員會114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案這質詢已均已詢答完畢謝謝卓院長以及相關列席部會首長的列席答詢現在做以下決定一114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案交財政委員會"},{"start":12836.319,"end":12856.251,"text":"會同相有關委員審查二 將各委員會發言記錄及書面質詢送函送行政院請就未答覆部分予以書面答覆三 以提出之書面質詢尚未登載公報者依律補刊抱怨會我們上午會議進行到此為止我們謝謝吳宗憲委員 張志倫委員 羅廷偉委員"},{"start":12859.953,"end":12865.359,"text":"陪同我們參與今天的專案報告會議上午會議進行到下午2點30分繼續開會現在休息"},{"start":21581.624,"end":21599.007,"text":"卓院長各位國人午安我們現在到院會我們繼續開始進行開會進行中央政府丹尼斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案編制經過並被質詢首先我們請行政院卓院長報告"},{"start":21617.569,"end":21646.157,"text":"韓院長 江副院長各位委員先進今天行政院應邀就中央政府丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案進行報告並備諮詢首先要感謝大院各朝野黨團給予災區的國人及民眾更多的支持跟實質的協助"},{"start":21647.55,"end":21657.858,"text":"讓行政院在8月7號送行審議的中央政府總預算中央政府丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例"},{"start":21659.488,"end":21675.802,"text":"這塊的速度在8月15日就完成三讀作為後續推動災後重建的重要依據使各級政府有足夠的量能加速辦理災後復原重建的工作支持災民渡過這樣的難關"},{"start":21678.184,"end":21690.843,"text":"行政院依據特別條例8月21號將本特別預算案重請歸大院來審議以下請就災後重建工作及特別預算案編制概況做重點說明"},{"start":21692.813,"end":21712.561,"text":"但那時颱風今年7月6日於嘉義縣布袋登陸由南而北貫穿整個台灣海峽席捲嘉南沿海地區強風、豪雨造成中南部縣市嚴重災情建築物、電力、電信系統等設備有重大毀損"},{"start":21714.343,"end":21728.044,"text":"颱風期間及後續不斷的強降雨以至於自7月28日起連續數日西南氣流影響帶來劇烈的強降雨形成連貫性的災情"},{"start":21729.486,"end":21743.107,"text":"許多民眾家園嚴重毀損亦導致大規模的電力、通訊、農業設施、道路及水利設施等都受損衝擊當地民眾生活及民生經濟"},{"start":21744.577,"end":21772.558,"text":"政府為協助受災民眾能夠得到更多關懷跟慰助第一時間提供各項生活輔助措施包括租屋補助 淹水救助住宅修繕 農業救助稅務減免 健保補助及就業支持協助等等尤其針對山區多處園民鄉的清理與重建以及中低收入戶及"},{"start":21774.12,"end":21788.016,"text":"低收入戶及中低收入戶的房屋修繕還有關懷戶政府均全額支持以加速推動災區各項復原重建工作同時行政院以核定丹納斯颱風風災"},{"start":21791.431,"end":21815.24,"text":"救助事項的專案丹納斯風災家園復原衛助金專案以及上工獎勵專案及媒合簽約獎勵金等災後重建計畫但由於災情不斷的擴大依據現行災害防救法相關規定辦理災後復原所需的經費已有所不足"},{"start":21815.922,"end":21842.777,"text":"因此行政院有必要提出中央政府丹納斯颱風及728桃雨災後復原重建特別條例給予民眾更多的支持跟協助行政院依照特別條例規定編制完成本特別預算案稅出共編600億元期程至今年8月19日起至116年12月31日止"},{"start":21846.021,"end":21850.804,"text":"114至116年度分別編列191億316億以及93億元包括農業部編列203億元經濟部編列187億元交通部編列69億元原住民族委員會編列46億元內政部編列38億元"},{"start":21873.338,"end":21887.883,"text":"環境部編列16億元教育部編列4億元文化部編列3億元國家通訊傳播委員會編列3億元行政院公共工程委員會編列1億元另編列預備金30億元"},{"start":21889.543,"end":21909.277,"text":"所需財源全數以舉借債務支應為因應本次旦那颱風及接續的西南氣流帶來持續強降與造成的災損本特別預算案規劃辦理災區復原重建項目共有9項各項目預算的編列情況包括有"},{"start":21912.33,"end":21934,"text":"第一 農業設施含農路修徹倉儲農業機具等101億元電力系統含輸配電系統備援系統110億元電信系統及有線廣播電視系統含基地台衛星備援等3億元"},{"start":21934.966,"end":21960.107,"text":"自來水瓦斯燃氣設施3億元家園及公共設施含住宅修繕學校公務設施48億元水利設施含河川治理台水系統海岸防護等110億元道路及交通含橋樑邊坡防護交通設施等89億元"},{"start":21962.313,"end":21967.862,"text":"環境衛生復原含災後廢棄物清理疫情防治等15億元"},{"start":21970.014,"end":21991.239,"text":"最後是社會復原及產業復蘇含農損補助產業振興等89億元並編列預備金30億元及籌設復原重建辦公室1億元本次特別預算案共編列600億元令加計為使救災工作迅速推動"},{"start":21992.399,"end":22012.865,"text":"辦理緊急救助等具時效性項目前由各機關緣編相關預算及移緩季節調整支應61億元及動資特別統籌分配稅款支應家園復原未租金及復原上工津貼補助金等32億元"},{"start":22014.565,"end":22032.543,"text":"所以本市政府要投入救災與重建整體的經費共達到693億元以上僅就本特別預算案的編制重點概要說明有關特別預算案的編制經過及內容由陳主席長在座報告"},{"start":22033.784,"end":22060.921,"text":"財源籌措部分由財政部莊部長在座報告懇請各位委員全力的支持早日通過本特別預算案使政府各項復原重建工作能夠緊速推動全力協助災民重建家園恢復基礎設施及復甦生產活動讓民眾生活緊速回到常軌以上報告請各位委員能夠大力的協助儘早的審議通過謝謝指教 謝謝"},{"start":22068.349,"end":22094.289,"text":"謝謝行政院卓院長的報告我們也非常感謝當然是颱風災區的立法委員只有林俊憲 邱毅寅兩位委員在場也謝謝我們臺灣民眾黨團的林議軍委員也在現場一起來聽取卓院長的專案報告也呼籲災區的立委能夠多多趕到一場來聽一下這次重要的災後重建的報告"},{"start":22095.33,"end":22109.061,"text":"另外也跟院會報告在一場二樓旁聽的是新北市清水高中國中的所有同學們我們掌聲熱情歡迎好 謝謝我們接下來請主計總處陳主計長報告"},{"start":22119.039,"end":22136.902,"text":"韓院長 江副院長各位委員先敬大家好中央政府單納市颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案編制概況及主要重點卓院長已予以說明以下緊究特別預算案編制經過及內容概要"},{"start":22137.723,"end":22155.468,"text":"該要進一步提出報告本次丹奈斯颱風節728豪雨災禍復原工作整理經費需求達693億元為此就在工作迅速推動辦理緊急救助等具時效性項目已由各機關於原編相關預算"},{"start":22156.368,"end":22172.044,"text":"以緩計及支應61億元以及動資特別統籌分配稅款支應家園復原衛助金與復原上工津貼的補助金等32億元那其餘則依丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復建"},{"start":22174.486,"end":22193.971,"text":"復原重建特別條例規定編列完成本特別預算案總經費六百億元實施期程自一百一十四年八月十九日到一百一十六年十二月三十一日子以本年八月二十一送請歸月審議主要內容如下第一個 稅出預算"},{"start":22195.291,"end":22222.919,"text":"600億元 主要分機關別和正式別說明如下機關別編列 請洗衣農業部主管編列203億元主要是撥補農業天然災害救助基金辦理農業損失現金救助及低利貸款利息補貼還有補助地方政府辦理上下邊坡穩定排水改善與道路安全等農水路公共設施災後搶修及復原工程等"},{"start":22223.399,"end":22239.256,"text":"二 經濟部主管編列187億元主要是撥補台灣電力公司去辦理遷改供電線路以及補助地方政府辦理系統性治水與水利設施災後搶修及復原重建工程"},{"start":22240.157,"end":22263.696,"text":"等三交通部主管編列69億元主要是省道搶修及復建工程並補助地方政府辦理市縣區鄉道搶修及復原工程等是原住民委員會編列46億元主要辦理原住民民主部落基礎設施公共設施聯絡道路橋樑等在下搶修與復建等"},{"start":22265,"end":22283.197,"text":"五 內政部主管編列38億元是補助地方政府辦理住宅屋頂與外牆損害的拆除修繕與媒合還有補助地方政府辦理受災地區市區道路橋樑公共建設雨水下水道的緊急搶救搶修清理清淤"},{"start":22284.097,"end":22308.868,"text":"及復建工程六 環境部主管編列16億元主要是補助地方政府辦理失眠建材廢棄物清除災後環境復原等七 教育部主管編列4億元主要是補助地方政府辦理國民中小學校園災後搶修及復建工程八 國家通訊傳播委員會編列3億元去辦理"},{"start":22309.568,"end":22337.929,"text":"受災地區電信系統及有線電視廣播電視系統復原重建補助等九 文化部主管編列三運營是辦理受災古蹟歷史建築聚落建築群等文化資產緊急搶修及修復十 行政院公共工程委員會編列一億元系災後復原重建辦公室業務所需經費十一 預備金編列三十億元"},{"start":22339.289,"end":22351.198,"text":"2 正式別編列情形經濟發展支出501億元居所 佔稅數總額83.4%一般政務支出46億元次之 佔稅數總額7.7%預備金30億元 佔稅數總額5%社區發展及環境支出16億元 佔稅數總額2.7%教育科學文化支出7億元 佔稅數總額1.2%"},{"start":22367.79,"end":22394.671,"text":"以上稅出所需財源600億元全數以舉借債務支應以上特別預算是作為協助災民重建家園修復基礎設施並復甦生產活動敬請各位委員 女士先生會與指教並鼎力支持謝謝好 謝謝陳主席長的報告也謝謝鄭天才委員參與我們專案報告會議接下來我們請財政部莊部長請報告"},{"start":22406.769,"end":22431.599,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好有關中央政府丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案收入的編列情形報告如下首先是就財源規劃的部分提出報告那麼依照本重建特別條例第五條的規定經費上限是為600億元那麼以特別預算的方式來編列經費來源以"},{"start":22433.1,"end":22446.391,"text":"以用以前年度稅基剩餘或者是舉借債務支應本特別預算案的總經費600億元從114年度起到116年度我們分三年辦理財源規劃全數以舉借債務來支應"},{"start":22450.074,"end":22475.435,"text":"第二是就債務的管控部分來報告有關債務管控的部分依照本重建條例的規定每年度的舉借債務的額度不受公債法第五條第七項每年度債務流量15%的限制但是仍然要管控特別條例施行期間中央政府總預算及特別預算的舉債額度合計數"},{"start":22476.335,"end":22497.571,"text":"不得超过该期间总预算及特别预算税出总额合计数的15%并且需要符合公债法第五条第一项有关长期债务余额占前三年度明目GDP平均数的比例不得超过40.6%的存量债限规定"},{"start":22498.351,"end":22518.762,"text":"考量本重建條例從一百一四年度推動執行那麼並繼一百一四年度中央政府總預算前瞻基礎建設計劃新式戰機採購海空戰力提升計劃採購疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果丹納斯等特別預算的舉債合計數"},{"start":22520.283,"end":22538.731,"text":"占该期间税出预算总额合计数为5.7%低于15%规定的上限那么截至114年7月底中央政府长期债务余额实计数为5兆8379亿元债务比率为24.3%"},{"start":22541.252,"end":22551.816,"text":"至於114年底長期債務餘額的預算數是依據公債法第五條規定按照113年底中央政府長期債務餘額的實際數5兆8580億元連同歷年特別預算融資調度的保留數2910億元加計114年度預計的債務舉借數並扣除債務償還數以後"},{"start":22568.641,"end":22576.529,"text":"預估到114年抵止中華政府長期債務餘額為6兆4768億元債務比例為27%那麼據公債法的規定債務存量上限40.6%還有13.6%的舉債空間那麼以上的報告敬請各位委員會議支持與指教謝謝"},{"start":22595.99,"end":22611.995,"text":"謝謝莊部長的報告我們現在繼續感謝蘇清泉委員 許巧欣委員 郭國恩委員一起參與我們專案的報告接下來要跟大家報告的是公共工程委員會陳竺偉請提出報告"},{"start":22618.843,"end":22637.121,"text":"院長 各位委員 先進 大家好首先感謝大院8月15號通過由行政院所提的丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例草案根據這個草案主管機關是行政院公共工程委員會預算規模600億針對丹納斯颱風及728豪雨包括楊柳颱風"},{"start":22643.467,"end":22657.892,"text":"那麼所造成的災損在預定的災區是南投、台中、雲林嘉義縣市台南市、高雄市、屏東縣台東、花蓮、苗栗等縣市"},{"start":22658.812,"end":22687.786,"text":"所造成的這個災損編列預算進行重建復原的工作那麼包括受損房屋的修繕拆除 廢棄物的處理農業設施 水利設施 電力通信 公路及交通公共設施等進行災後重建以下緊究災損房屋以及廢棄物的處理補充說明那麼因為這次的颱風比較特殊是從在台灣西部由南向北那麼右轉到"},{"start":22688.746,"end":22711.71,"text":"加一些的鋪子布袋來上岸所以因為超級的強風16級以上的強風造成大量的老舊房屋受損這些老舊房屋過去因為部分是產權複雜部分是租用國有地所以長時間沒有修繕有的長達百年"},{"start":22714.551,"end":22734.669,"text":"沒有碰過這樣的颶風所以損失非常大超過4萬戶以上的房屋受損那麼針對這4萬戶以上的房屋受損行政院呢除了撥補20億到這個嘉義縣嘉義市台南市進行家園復原未住金之外呢那麼也沒和"},{"start":22735.71,"end":22758.338,"text":"將近300家以上的營造廠商進駐雲嘉南來協助縣市政府針對受損的災民來進行房屋的修繕如果是拆除的部分全部由政府來負擔包括拆除 包括廢墟物的去化等等如果是自行拆除也會補助2萬塊"},{"start":22759.898,"end":22788.241,"text":"那麼關於修繕的部分呢如果是弱勢戶包括低收入戶 中低收入戶包括脆弱家庭那麼包括特殊禁慾家庭呢全部由政府來負擔那麼如果是自行拆除呢政府額外再補助5萬 10萬等那麼如果受損房屋的面積比較小20平方公尺以下的那麼由市政府或嘉義縣市政府分別"},{"start":22789.162,"end":22795.109,"text":"補助之外呢那麼行政院各分別在補助一萬五給這個弱勢戶那麼受損面積比較小的來補助"},{"start":22800.356,"end":22821.073,"text":"那包括產生的廢棄物呢因為數量非常龐大所以營建廢棄物的處理也全部由市政府來協助來處理那麼行政院來補助這個金額那其中呢包含石明瓦那麼因為石明瓦是有害事業廢棄物所以針對石明瓦的處理那麼全部由"},{"start":22822.454,"end":22846.88,"text":"這個政府來清運跟去化包含了這個勤設這些設施甚至包含了這個工廠那麼原有的這個石棉瓦的這個建築拆下來之後那麼這個整個由行政院來協助各縣市政府來處理那麼以上做補充說明 敬請大院支持好 謝謝謝謝陳主任委員的報告"},{"start":22849.81,"end":22864.44,"text":"委員會現在開始我們進行委員質詢每位委員詢答時間不得超過15分鐘輪到質詢委員如果不在場視同放棄我們首先請林郡縣委員質詢郭國文委員請準備"},{"start":22877.313,"end":22881.67,"text":"謝謝院長 本席邀請我們行政院卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":22893.553,"end":22914.328,"text":"林委員好 院長好 本席我們肯定也感謝行政院即刻的呼應本席最早提出的希望我們能夠提出特別條例來搶救這一次造成可以說台灣百年史上最嚴重的一次風災"},{"start":22916.093,"end":22938.007,"text":"首先我想跟院長我們必須要了解到真實的狀況我現在發現中央跟地方的數據會有落差譬如說按照中央所統計我們現在受理的汙損的件數有三萬九千件合發的有一萬八千六百件"},{"start":22939.178,"end":22957.712,"text":"但是根據台南市政府呢他受理的件數已經有四萬三千三百五十二件核發的有兩萬九千件那這個落差在什麼地方呢台南市政府的受理還有核發的件數啊都是一專期啦但是呢"},{"start":22959.435,"end":22975.508,"text":"現在中央所公佈的數字都是只有重災區就是台南市的17個行政區所以這個會產生一個數字的落差因為這些現在的手裡都公佈在網路上我希望這中央跟地方"},{"start":22977.354,"end":23004.392,"text":"這個公佈的數字啊應該要一致才對應該一樣才對嘛我說台南市公佈的一專期要知道這一次的災區宣告是全市 全台南市都屬於災區啦但是我們中央現在所公佈的受理建築 核發建築就是說儲配業啦來申報的 還有合併的受理跟電是有很大的一個不一樣那這個部分"},{"start":23006.172,"end":23028.534,"text":"我們再來看一下為什麼核發件數跟實際的受理件數會有落差呢當然我們有一些行政作業第一個有些如果你的申請的品項跟你提供的一些照片影片的數據那個證據有一點落差有些是需要現刊"},{"start":23030.283,"end":23052.856,"text":"有的是申請你不符合資格比如說你沒有實際居住的事實有的是重複送件所以這都需要人力來審查所以我們現在缺的人力不是只有在現場你做工施工的工班的人力行政程序的人力非常的需求"},{"start":23053.973,"end":23077.302,"text":"你看 按照台南市政府的數字現在申請的 還沒給他決定你可不可以請您衛助金有13600戶一萬三千六百戶如果按照我們中央的數字你來申請衛助金 那還沒有核定不知道可不可以符合資格的有超過兩萬戶"},{"start":23079.229,"end":23106.673,"text":"這就是我跟你說的連行政程序的審查人力都非常短缺啦也讓院長知道啦因為這檔位重災區啦都是在屬於比較偏鄉啦你偏鄉的區公所一般的編制人力就比較少你現在鄉鄉下來喔 很多東西啦這審查的速度很慢那我希望這個部分啊中央現在啊有一點可以來"},{"start":23107.848,"end":23135.636,"text":"協助的因為在我們的特別條例裡面的預算你有編了一億元在工程會所有的行政程序都在這因為我們要籌設災後復原重建辦公室也起程到特別預算的執行差不多到明年2026年底這裡面就有包含人力包括縣幹的人力流程審查的人力評估等等"},{"start":23136.738,"end":23155.139,"text":"所以既然預算變態特別條例裡面是不是希望能夠趕快補充這個部分的審查人力來 這個是不是請先請陳主委解釋一下人數上的問題以及現在行政的資源人力問題來 王國健主委因為數量的確很龐大"},{"start":23156.941,"end":23178.829,"text":"來申請了超過4萬件就台南市政府而言那重災區有17個區公所那我到區公所去看台南市政府每個區公所這17個區公所都有進駐檢認級以上的這個同仁相關人員都有進駐那每個區公所他也會動員志工在那邊協助審查"},{"start":23179.269,"end":23205.368,"text":"那當然一開始是量很多啦所以他為了謹慎因為我們有區分20平方公尺以下的20平方公尺以上是100平方公尺以上報來的資料未必準確啦所以承辦第一線的確壓力很大他也這個很謹慎的在審查不過現在已經五成以上都已經發放但是我用這個手裡給你們兩個參考就是說現在計案如山啦現在待審查的還有13,666件"},{"start":23208.281,"end":23236.644,"text":"因為申請了4萬多件 所以已經半數以上一個多月了 已經撥補下去了所以我現在請這個部分 看怎麼來協助再增派人力因為你已經特別預算 你有兩個這個部分的預算了好 再來 不然蔡英文會認為我這送去申請衛助金 到現在也沒有消息到底是有準沒準 我是符合請領多少所以這樣子的話 也會產生民眾的誤解"},{"start":23238.695,"end":23253.676,"text":"這點我們請中央政府來注意一下還有我們房屋的修繕剛才我們指揮官 曾經的主委也特別報告政府設立一個媒合的平台數字現況有落差 但差不了多少"},{"start":23255.618,"end":23276.5,"text":"現在完成媒合我們做院長知道就是說外出派去我現在來定義政府要介紹要媒合公辦來給我去有3,095件那完成簽約的目前只有405件所以喔"},{"start":23277.898,"end":23301.094,"text":"我同意 那我也支持 那我也加入政府的媒合平台到現在完成簽約的只有百分之十三啦好 完工的企鶴啊 一百三十八斤啦占所有參與媒合平台的總戶數只有百分之四點五啦"},{"start":23302.165,"end":23307.621,"text":"一個多月的時間所以如果你照這樣看下去災後的修繕工作"},{"start":23308.683,"end":23333.645,"text":"恐怕要又很長的了我跟委員報告 申請件數將近4萬了那麼區公所一一打電話去問或者是李幹事去家裡去問已經達99%以上都問過了那需要來媒合的大概3000多萬你這有嚇啦你登記申請的跟完成媒合的因為你現在報告都報告99%嘛"},{"start":23335.446,"end":23354.682,"text":"這個我同意啦 這個是問過的有99%都同意來加入我們的媒合平台不是 這個沒有錯啦就是問過的99%以上那他同意政府來媒合大概3000處左右到8月22日是3263啦如果到8月25日應該有3500左右這裡面呢 媒合中的"},{"start":23355.422,"end":23373.904,"text":"三千多的 也有不參與的啦你意思是說有人沒有參加就對了他同意參與媒合 有的他已經自行修建或等待修建 那出名的有人在找他拜託他要找所以有需求的是三千五左右啦那這三千五的安排 已經安排在媒合中的"},{"start":23376.265,"end":23400.958,"text":"已經98%以上的因為裡面他有一些會比較所以才有這個簽約數大概600左右到今天應該600左右所以這個比例還不算很低你是針對4萬嗎如果是針對說他有需求的應該是3000了你的比例應該是我參與我同意我加入政府的媒體平台你到底"},{"start":23402.025,"end":23421.715,"text":"跟我們簽約的已經完工了那這個比例目前為止啊恐怕還很低啦所以 第一點你現在 剛才那指揮官有報告我們把全國的公班調來支援台南我不知道可以支援多久啦我希望喔 這時間可能要比我們想像的更長啦這時間可能要再等"},{"start":23424.883,"end":23451.613,"text":"陳主委你懂我意思吧這個那天禮拜六總統在台南訪視的時候他有說啦就是已經確定要媒合給這個廠商來做了沒有做好公班不會撤退好好好 請讓大家放心啦你如果參與我的政府的平台那我一定要幫你介紹公班啦你的意思是這樣嘛對那我們也希望這個時間能夠再加快"},{"start":23452.739,"end":23467.596,"text":"因為現在大家去電機後 他們都會覺得說我就當政府要來去嘛你有知道齁 災民的心理是度日如年啊他們現在除了派去抱他 不能住他就等於沒有辦法回復到災前的生活嘛"},{"start":23468.49,"end":23487.276,"text":"如果以目前的來看 你說完工的有100多件以完工167 施工中263 備料145這是8月22 如果今天來看應該是600件以上請我們再加油 我們希望再盡快加快速度"},{"start":23488.922,"end":23512.916,"text":"另外就是還有一個數字就是同意拆除的就是我房子我沒在住或是說已經破損到不堪的要同意來完全拆除那這個部分應該要優先來辦理同意拆除的全部由政府來負擔費用包括廢棄物的去化等等那我希望這個訊息能夠讓更多人知道"},{"start":23514.056,"end":23539.589,"text":"因為他那處派去 他如果不在大陰他沒用 沒要修理他如果不把他撐住會成為環境的一個負擔他現在再落河沖浪他變成有可能啦 登閣落啦種種環境的汙染蔡署的我們政府會負擔低收 中低收 跟關懷戶的修繕政府也會全額負擔你要願意願意加入我們蔡署全部都讓他負擔嘛再來我們提到那個石明華的青運"},{"start":23540.819,"end":23560.469,"text":"因為沒有這次的風災我們不知道很多人沒有注意到我們其實台灣的石棉瓦這個是非常嚴重的一項這真是我們的環境的負擔嘛我這裡有一個全國的一個調查啦台南的石棉瓦總量大概十萬噸"},{"start":23562.098,"end":23579.73,"text":"這一次的風災大概帶氫運有15000噸環境部已經開始進行災區相關的一個氫運現在還有一個問題啦我請部長要考量一下就是說破損的石棉瓦的拆除問題你知道嗎 這石棉瓦你不會找得到"},{"start":23582.113,"end":23608.84,"text":"要專業的人員才能拆喔他一破碎啊就一些細微纖維就飛出來了那個人連皮膚都不可以碰觸到所以你拆除啦 一定要全副武裝防塵衣啦 護目鏡啦NGO服 口罩啦頂頂喔 手套所以拆除的速度也很慢相對的啊我如果破他 我要拆很麻煩他怎麼叫人啊這部份喔 環境部對於"},{"start":23610.325,"end":23636.546,"text":"想要拆除 而目前就說他願意拆除他破損的生命好的房屋這部分要怎麼破損啊報告委員 那個內政部國土署他有補助一戶是兩萬塊然後所謂農區社也有然後一般的工廠也有現在有三個補助那我們環境部是負責清運的那清運也謝謝陳靜德政委協調還有院長也支持所以目前的這個經費在台南嘉義是沒有問題的"},{"start":23637.475,"end":23657.999,"text":"所以你現在負責一般民宅的薪金多少兩萬 工資呢工資二十萬所以不分資格啦你只要願意拆我就補償你兩萬的拆除費用啦對那接下來就清運的事情啦那這個在特別預算裡面我們也有編列啦我們希望利用這邊把過去這個環境的災難趕快把它處理掉"},{"start":23662.263,"end":23677.475,"text":"最後那個院長我也再次肯定院長因為本期在上次總質詢在質詢風災的時候我也特別有提到就是電網的韌性還有電纜的地下化問題"},{"start":23678.715,"end":23700.298,"text":"我當時也特別明確指出希望能夠就在台17和台19因為這兩條路的基礎建設比較不容易所以你可以優先來列為電纜地下化的地方所以這次你也有列進來這一點我們要肯定在建築的評估台17台19兩線他們會優先來考量除非它是一個"},{"start":23701.719,"end":23728.766,"text":"易淹水的或是地層下陷或是土質鬆軟的那我們會克服一些工程上的困難來籌措裁員那有一點我要特別提醒院長除了電網台電的電纜以外我們這次風災也檢驗到我們的網路訊號電信這現在三間有中華電信台客大還有遠傳知道他們的鐵塔訊號塔都有倒下來幹嘛 讓基地破損"},{"start":23730.558,"end":23747.666,"text":"我覺得啦 因為我們對他們怎麼設立這個信號的鐵塔其實是沒有一個標準要求我認為相關單位NCC這個部分你應該要要求電信業者 台電的喔他這個都有抗風係數喔"},{"start":23749.335,"end":23760.689,"text":"就是說你的電纜電線電位條我們要想一個標準他現在高抗災的一些基地台好像到15級是不是好像抗15級風還有不斷電還有發電設備等等這個應該也要因為他也要列為重要的國安基礎建設"},{"start":23769.093,"end":23797.684,"text":"人家的業績體育拿到特許執照我想大家都賺大錢啦遠傳也好 台客大也好 中華電信啦所以應該要負起最基本的一個社會責任應該要完善你的基礎設施啦不然你現在這個環境才知道他們都後備駕 後備調啦照電話調 所以電話調到他們就不信了網路也不信 電話也不信這個要列為一個國家標準好不好一定要他們提高標準而且設置的時候啊"},{"start":23804.208,"end":23825.325,"text":"好 謝謝林俊憲委員質詢謝謝左院長 相關部會首長貝殉 謝謝抱怨會現在在我們一場二樓旁聽來自美國國會助理訪問團Welcome Legislative Young我們掌聲鼓勵一下接下來我們請郭國文委員質詢蘇清泉委員請準備"},{"start":23831.751,"end":23858.432,"text":"謝謝主席有請卓院長還有環境部彭部長以及內政部的劉部長麻煩再請卓院長環境部內政部備詢郭委員好院長好兩位部長好我想這個上面看到的這個地圖是屬於環境部跟民間團體所做的這個實棉地圖實棉網地圖"},{"start":23860.399,"end":23885.599,"text":"其中台南是全國最多 總共5萬4千多戶總量數大概10萬但是台南的整個行政區是37個區受災戶高達17個區依照環境部的估計恐怕台南10萬噸當中只有1萬噸受損其實就17個行政區來說我覺得環境部可能要重新再估計一下是不是只有占十分之一"},{"start":23886.019,"end":23909.715,"text":"因為行政區三個七個區怎麼十七個區當中只有快一半只有一萬這是第一個另外一個部分我必須肯定一下環境部跟台南市政府清除的速度非常的快已經接近一半但是這裡頭我想說要跟環境部建議一下就是說我們這清拆運一條龍的這種方式以照目前為止剛剛"},{"start":23910.836,"end":23926.324,"text":"部長在回答林俊憲委員的時候說二十萬在補助中小企業中小企業補助二十萬 請假就不夠還有談判官給你來提交九名幫這不夠 那二十萬不是保生保害啦因為企業都抓多少錢 那二十萬中"},{"start":23929.325,"end":23955.433,"text":"所以說這個應該環境部要擔起來我是不是請院長指示一下環境部災區裡頭的中小企業 石棉瓦也請環境部用7億加7.8億總共14.8億來支付這是第一點 就是擴大辦理因為這是政府的政策環境部現在就要推石棉瓦的清運計畫另外也拜託劉部長劉部長這次編了21億再做一些拆除房屋老舊拆除的部分但是針對弱勢戶"},{"start":23956.793,"end":23977.117,"text":"是不是拆除的過程連同石棉瓦是有補助沒有錯但是是不是可以擴大到一般戶一般戶的石棉瓦拆除也需要專業因為一般人在拆除這些石棉瓦不可能全戶武裝一下子防塵衣就N95口罩又防護鏡然後雙層手罩不可以這麼費工啦我們都要拿 我有可能不夠多一定要拜託專業的人來拿嘛所以這兩點是不是能夠擴大來辦理"},{"start":23981.218,"end":24008.733,"text":"預算都有了 一個20億 一個是加了7億請院長裁刺一下 或者兩位部長回答一下 謝謝報告委員 其實我們現在原來的費用是7.9億還有額外7.多億 大概14億左右那是針對農畜舍還有一般的民宅我們是負責清運內政部 還有經濟部 還有農業部都有負責拆除 拆除是他們的分工你都可以跨除到農畜舍了對不對農畜舍是屬於農業部的 你會跨除到那邊"},{"start":24010.754,"end":24031.342,"text":"不能跨到這個經濟部所屬中小企業嗎中小企業的經濟變得太少了我告訴你 應該是要來靠這中小企業啦你試試看啦OK 好 委員另外一個是說因為清運是一筆很大的費用因為一頓大概花四萬多塊所以基本上我們那個部分其實有擴大額外在吸收中小企業"},{"start":24031.462,"end":24049.331,"text":"我有算過你們總共加持原來是71.78億至少有4萬噸的一個量可以補助所以說你還可以接受新的對象我幫你算過錢這個部分內政部可不可以從弱勢戶擴到一般戶 部長我們在這次特別預算裡面大概現在預框是4億左右"},{"start":24050.171,"end":24067.173,"text":"那如果說我們那個補助計畫裡面把現在你講的弱勢戶先核算一下如果有可能的話如果委員在我們這個預算在審查的過程當中有提這個案我們會遵照立法院所通過那我再來進行提案謝謝部長的支持後續我想要請農業部一下"},{"start":24069.829,"end":24083.917,"text":"兩位請回 謝謝院長 農業部的部分這次石棉瓦的問題也很多石棉瓦問題多在哪裡多在總共有400場那裡頭有100場當中是進行梳理 還有300場這300場當中有備時還是傳統的續勤社就是不是暗場登記的這補充內行的都知道問題是這個部分 趁這個機會你這邊農業部有兩個一個叫重建 一個叫輔導"},{"start":24098.484,"end":24113.485,"text":"那輔導的部分是什麼意思呢就是能夠讓他升級嘛或者讓他轉型嘛我想說在這補充的部分就畜牧業的這個部分當他要另外轉型的時候能不能讓他多一點力氣部長"},{"start":24114.927,"end":24138.793,"text":"我跟委員報告就是我們這邊的天災的部分大概分為三項一項是就是天然災救助幫忙補助下去救助下去不夠用補助的方式補助已經拉到八成了所以這個部分是可以讓他做四度的升級那如果他要改成更高級的這些續勤社的時候我們另外會有專案的方式用個案的方式去處理"},{"start":24139.073,"end":24161.61,"text":"對啦 因為這一種呢 多半你的白色是你那是高級的啦 而且傳統的是都是傳統的 古的那個是假的啦 是低的那個他如果賺錢的時候 要改做水蓮式的你應該要倒開一個啦 這樣等於是把它升級嘛這是一種 另外一種它是已經不行了 破損它不行 它是泥木你是不是要考慮一下 把過去那個泥木專案"},{"start":24163.651,"end":24182.062,"text":"斷出來 讓他離開這個部分才是一種比較好的方式我本席建議你還有一個今年天災不斷我也會刊好幾次結果我們天災一年只能補助一次部長 我也跟院長報告多少%你知道嗎 20%而已我說拜託院長跟部長"},{"start":24183.796,"end":24200.062,"text":"做到要死一年頭停頓補助補助去10% 那有夠啦院長跟部長是不是嘗試一下長期以來天然救助辦法裡頭只有20%的數字真的是民眾級被拿到也是苦不堪言啦"},{"start":24201.663,"end":24229.96,"text":"我跟那個委員報告我非常認同你的一個想法就是說我們現在的天然災害救助辦法的救助金的設計是用成本的20%去省不過我們這次去看了有時候很多它損失是全圓全毀但是我們救助只有成本的20%那這次因為大規模我們還有一些所謂的專案補助但是平常是沒有的所以我們也一直在思考我們是不是應該"},{"start":24231.261,"end":24257.667,"text":"因為農民對於天災不是他願意面對的這個時候我們是不是可以適度的去提高他的救助的計算的標準這個也會回應到很多委員一直要求我們提高救助金要打破20%的限制提高救助金還是在20%的限制會變成只有隨著物價走所以我們這一次會全盤的重新來考量他的救助標準的20%是不是可以往上拉部長應該拉高"},{"start":24259.087,"end":24264.112,"text":"委員我請農業部趕快來規劃來檢討來拉高補償我想這個補償是我們現在應該必須做的最容易的謝謝院長的支持啦所以說這一次災損的過程當中除了這個重建20%往上拉打破之外"},{"start":24275.382,"end":24301.735,"text":"趁這個機會福島轉型包括我們之前提到的有關於溫室網的部分都要請部長多費心一下這些真的是很多另外復興的部分就是以後整個台南連續這一年之內跟院長報告我們總共四個災情那個災區已經深到人心了所以將來如何觀光復興農村旅遊的部分也請部長指示一下交通部跟農業部一起來帶動一下好不好 院長"},{"start":24304.419,"end":24329.707,"text":"謝謝後面的部分我還有一件事情就是有關於經濟部接下來的治水的工程要來就教院長跟經濟部經濟部這次編例的地方預算的搶修還有防汛的設備16億當中本席在所屬的這一次最嚴重的南北門區北門區七股細湖還有沙洲富裕還有大寮排水的部分"},{"start":24330.787,"end":24358.427,"text":"這個已經在協調台南市政府向中央提報已經有高達18億之多了18億之多呢院長我跟經濟部要求說經濟部說等到納入這個4年1000億的預算下次的狀況1000億還沒通過啊我是跟院長拜託一下這18億當中呢裡頭有屬於這個短中長期的部分就是自然工法跟水工模型測試大概要5億元這個部分全部先花這5億元"},{"start":24359.207,"end":24386.926,"text":"你總共有66億嘛你撥5億新來做一個比較中長期的部分另外13億的部分再納入1000億的自水預算院長你不能責成經濟部支持一下台南自水能夠速度快一點這次的特別預算就是針對搶秋搶險目前看到的必須趕快把它停止下來所要擴大的未來比較中期的規劃就會納到未來的4年1000億裡面來看所以我經濟部 其實水利署在把委員剛剛所建議的"},{"start":24387.606,"end":24402.389,"text":"那個地方的一個狀況是不是優先可以來納入優先納入我們來檢討謝謝院長那我跟院長說明一下為什麼一年四次淹三次原因在哪裡 原因在本席的選區當中剛好曾文熙"},{"start":24403.747,"end":24412.856,"text":"鄭文希流域當中他只要雨大的時候就要洩洪你知道洩洪最大的放流量每秒是2150噸這2150噸是八幫風災當初的紀錄"},{"start":24419.723,"end":24438.588,"text":"另外的部分它每天累積的降雨量也是高達400毫米速度都非常的快以至於這種情況一邊在洩洪一邊在下雨所以很容易淹水所以這應該是淹水當中地區當中的重中之重也是應該治水當中"},{"start":24438.948,"end":24461.233,"text":"最首要的目標啦所以我要拜託這個院長跟這個經濟部要多花一點心思在台南的治水的這部分除了南北門區特別是南科區它又是科技重鎮它雖然南科區裡頭有滋洪池可是周遭的地區都是從業人員沒有辦法上班沒有辦法上班它就影響到生產"},{"start":24462.598,"end":24484.421,"text":"這是環環相扣的事情所以南科區的治水非常關鍵還有就是曾文區本身就是最大受害的就是馬道那個地方幾乎每次下雨就淹所以真的要請這個經濟部這個水利署所屬的這個單位把台南的治水這個曾文熙言語列為重中之重"},{"start":24485.721,"end":24510.313,"text":"跟委員報告曾文熙的排水系統的一個治理計畫在去年12月26號已經核定了現在水利署跟台南市政府正在辦理曾文熙排水治理工程的一個用地取得還有先期作業的相關的一些工作等到我們的明年度計畫核定之後我們就可以工程可以試試看我希望能夠趕快看到成果"},{"start":24510.913,"end":24531.255,"text":"然後後續的部分我還要就教於院長的部分院長你已經有對外宣示說我們的台電的主要電纜要地下化我是覺得這是很好的這是眾多人的期待但是我跟院長報告說明一下我們內政部在2000年的時候就有通過所謂的共同管線管道法"},{"start":24531.815,"end":24544.151,"text":"第12條當中就規定市區道路修築的時候應該把電線纜的部分包括電力、電信、有線電視、路燈、交通號誌等等這個都是這次受損"},{"start":24545.513,"end":24570.467,"text":"嚴重的地方啦我想說你剛說你都要花台電都地下化了那地下化都有地下管溝嘛地下管溝一次成本做的時候八大管線通路你都一併可以執行嘛就要求他們一併做下去嘛像這一次的這一個NCC的部分花了2.95元2.65元是給業者重建那我問一下業者有沒有做什麼東西"},{"start":24571.81,"end":24585.428,"text":"你給他錢 業者如果沒有相對做的話也沒有辦法 請幾天總統下去的時候說以後的這一屆整個電纜通訊的韌性強化 三大業者都要要求每一次電話都能夠通如果是這樣子的話"},{"start":24587.57,"end":24608.15,"text":"院長你要指示一下NCC還有相關單位把這些管線單位把它弄成一個共同管線這才是真正的國家基礎建設把它砍敗在一起共同來思考一來它可以強化任性之外二來還可以讓入坪專案不會常常被破壞"},{"start":24610.126,"end":24627.06,"text":"水挖完換油 油挖完換電電挖完換電信每天挖來挖去 挖比賽的所以我是想說院長 趁這個機會你既然有這個決心已經要從事地下化工程能不能把電纜 電信還有交通耗資等等一併思考 院長"},{"start":24628.401,"end":24655.382,"text":"有些城市都市已經往這個方向已經做進次了這個經驗跟委員的建議是一樣的我們在規劃的時候就應該加強所謂橫向的一個評估把它融合在一起這個我也請經濟部跟其他的相關部會在規劃的時候要一起來做這個重要的規劃工作這些跨部會的部分要請院長慎重指示一下趁這個機會強化我們真正屬於基礎前瞻的建設那另外一個部分"},{"start":24656.283,"end":24684.77,"text":"院長剛剛林俊賢大家提我自己感同身透這一次第一線的公所人員真的是負擔沉重非常的大我們這次所謂的從優從寬我們真的做到了歷史以來我們條件真的最好這點一定要來困難但是為什麼沒有辦法重塑跟重減呢一個就是說你把舉證的責任都交給這些災民也要有保證事務所的 地政的或是社會一大堆"},{"start":24685.885,"end":24704.548,"text":"那這些舉證的真正導致說我們的我們這個電子化政府推了幾十年了包括所得資料、工商登記、稅籍資料、地址、戶籍這炸到有了啦我意思是說應該我們有一個查證的系統根本不用叫民眾拿那麼多資料來"},{"start":24705.209,"end":24721.008,"text":"也不用讓基層的公務人員那麼累本身透過電腦連線的時候來查證的時候你某某人 你叫我貴公文我來查查的你這裡的資料都有啊你當時有放養登記你當時有做一些工商登記我都有啊我就不用全部提來了"},{"start":24722.089,"end":24740.766,"text":"這樣就是一了百了啦一來基層的不用那麼累二來民眾也不用等待那麼久這是第一個本席提醒你的地方第二個本席要肯定你的地方這一次把這個災防這個指揮所設下來因為依照我們的災防法只是協調所而已啦你把它拉高啦"},{"start":24742.066,"end":24754.178,"text":"結條的部分把重鎮都放在地方政府這一次中央直接下去指揮這是好的做法我希望將來災防法要入法把它成為以後行政的慣性遇到地方政府無法執行的時候中央就必須要介入"},{"start":24767.964,"end":24778.6,"text":"好 謝謝郭國文委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請蘇清泉委員質詢邱毅英委員請準備"},{"start":24798.483,"end":24822.253,"text":"謝謝院長 謝謝主席我請卓院長 農業部陳部長麻煩再請卓院長農業部陳部長農業部備詢環境部 我們彭部長環境部備詢蘇委員好院長辛苦了大家辛苦 謝謝講幾天了 不簡單"},{"start":24825.666,"end":24853.465,"text":"好 這個是我們今天講的特別條例是丹納斯颱風728豪雨緊接著就是楊柳颱風楊柳颱風在台東在屏東造成很大的傷害我去現場看事實上我也分不清這是新胸還是古胸來 下一張這個是在來義看到的"},{"start":24857.045,"end":24878.18,"text":"那個壓溪啦 都壞掉了淹得一塌糊塗 連橋都斷了那我就問那個鄉長說這是新鄉 還是古的鄉他說不知道 我們不清楚所以我跟院長這邊要確認就是說這個丹納斯加上728因為那個豪雨在屏東"},{"start":24879.361,"end":24904.192,"text":"在原鄉那邊六天的雨量幾乎是2800公里以上已經跟莫拉克差不多甚至於超過這個洋流風速有14 15級所以這個在屏東在台東也應該要感受一下因為你現在這個災害也分不清了院長這樣可以嗎"},{"start":24906.387,"end":24927.032,"text":"這次的特別預算名稱重來叫做中央政府淡浪式颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建我們知道728之後是連續性的豪雨豪雨到楊柳颱風來我想這是一個連貫性的氣候的變遷那麼我日前到南部去的時候我們已經正式的有公佈"},{"start":24928.372,"end":24951.96,"text":"楊柳颱風首受的災害因為它也是在七二八之後的連續豪雨它應該歸納整個適用範圍好 第二個謝謝謝謝院長我對你民視第二個問題就是這一次的楊柳颱風在我們屏東我們霧台 山頂門就是大社那邊五間柱 十六戶的街柱都 土都崩壞了現在這裡要求說"},{"start":24958.18,"end":24984.695,"text":"以前你那裡 八八風災的時候永久屋他們沒有下來 也沒有竊竊下來像這一些是不是可以從寬的來跟他處理這個院長可以考慮嗎實際的狀況是不是請屏東縣政府跟我們的前進指揮所的辦公室一起來研究我們希望用更簡便的方法從優從寬來認定"},{"start":24986.786,"end":25015.612,"text":"因為這個對他們來講是一輩子的大事啦對我們來講可能是小事那上次我在關心的就是從寬的認定剛剛好幾位委員也都一樣大家都很關心我發現這個災害不管哪一個政黨都非常關心而且都是以百姓人民的出發點真的是很溫暖啦謝謝大家用非常快的速度通過了特別的條例以及今天來審查特別預算 謝謝"},{"start":25016.308,"end":25034.496,"text":"那再來就是我們農損從寬洞認定上次我提的就是像嘉義那個蚵仔麵一盤補五百塊沒中對不對對啦 叫那個香港社會的人要坐白車去現場那去想那時候去看那時候那風雲那麼大說如果有這麼的苛刻這樣無聊的一個農業部居然會這種要求"},{"start":25045.799,"end":25072.23,"text":"用空拍機 用搖桿這個真的很現代化的東西所以不要再去做那些很無聊 違反科學的空拍機現在那麼多 無聯機那麼多只要去去不去全品項 全方位剛剛你講的嘛我們要以百姓為優先嘛我就一直在講農業部最大存在的價值就是照顧這三百萬農漁牧的"},{"start":25075.222,"end":25096.028,"text":"我們的人民 我們的國民 農漁牧三百萬人所以關稅應用特別 他們也很歡樂到現在不知道有沒有透明都搞不清楚所以這個一定要 院長一定要好好的把持這些人這是我們的國民我們最疼惜的 好不好"},{"start":25097.149,"end":25116.165,"text":"我跟委員報告一下就是現在目前的勘災的部分在路上就是用勘災APP照相以後公所就會認定那這個部分大概大部分的很多公所都已經確認可以用這個了那您至於說海上的部分我們也寫到公所是可以必要的時候我們用空拍機去直接去拍"},{"start":25116.806,"end":25137.681,"text":"然後如果要出去看的時候 一定要風平浪靜這個我想我們也會在公所會確認那後續我們會把海上的這些空拍的系統直接納到一個現勘的一個作業規範裡面好 謝謝 部長很辛苦 表現非常好那剛剛有好幾個委員也在講你那坡座的金魚 農損的金額部長 院長我還要跟你講一次"},{"start":25141.909,"end":25149.121,"text":"你用成本的20%來補助然後你的榮損的金額就是用那20%"},{"start":25151.012,"end":25178.196,"text":"所以你每次公佈的農損的金額都是很少那這樣是顯示什麼顯示說災害很輕還是你在蒙蔽什麼院長 這種計算方式是不是要改這個標準應該是行之多年一直沒有檢討那農業部應該來檢討去面對這樣極端氣候全面檢討是必要的"},{"start":25178.556,"end":25204.457,"text":"對啦 用這種農損我每次都看不下去雖說生死五十億你告訴我生死五五六千萬 笑死人了 對不對我們會衡量現在整個財政的結構盡量來幫助農漁民你用你的身份的二十八來補助我上次講了嘛 育兒包一分多如果能收成 能收二三十萬結果你一分多補助六千八千"},{"start":25206.384,"end":25226.816,"text":"可能補償的方式沒有辦法達到市價或是實際價錢我們是讓他能夠再起這個做跟做的這個作用幫他能夠重新再能夠起來這個才是我們的作用有一點點感而且一塊農地一年才補助一次喔"},{"start":25229.524,"end":25249.913,"text":"所以這個真的要提高不是我講的 剛才歐陽也講了郭國文也講了 丁丁啊所以這個要檢討啦我們請農業部來檢討讓他能夠重新復耕能力這樣的方式來做檢討好 那再來 我在跟你講我們東港的這營業你今天要給我答應我今天要再出來當天跟你喝水啊不是每天如果大大流"},{"start":25257.193,"end":25283.446,"text":"上潮、大潮就陰 當天接下來有一個成功搜水站有一個關戶搜水站 那是你馬英九時代你阿扁時代就起了 現在這邊這裡存通常大排還有有無缺收集的地方 如果大潮開那裡有做水財 那些水財面我去廢坑久了幾年了就好像插在京府 岸邊有很多人"},{"start":25284.676,"end":25302.502,"text":"對 把他關心一下 把他打贏一下這是笑死人 一個又贏兩次 又分開來製作的提升兩邊的戶籍是一個方式或是如果有抽水站 抽水機加大他抽派的這個作品沒錯 做個抽水站在那邊就比較"},{"start":25303.959,"end":25332.166,"text":"既然那兩咖 安就該過了這如果做了 永遠一輩子都感謝你經濟部水利署去現場了解我們能夠緊急的或是優先來處理我們來納入現場不然的話你看這個每一個菸兩次來 下一張我們來講這個就是損害的部分我不用在最初剛剛已經有講了溫室的東西啦我這一次發現屏東的韌性比較強"},{"start":25333.376,"end":25357.922,"text":"屏東一天到晚外國起床所以這間林佳嵐真的是百年沒有颱風直撲陳部長常常去我常常去屏東勘災所以大家的記憶很重所以我這次看台南那邊的災害真的是很大很突然所以一定要要慣練那屏東台東比照嘛好 下一張"},{"start":25360.977,"end":25368.843,"text":"我現在再來就是跟環境部有關我們環境部處理這一個嘉義那個我們有去現勘我們有去勘這是同工 家當的外海"},{"start":25381.823,"end":25410.257,"text":"那個太陽能板 現在知道那個公司是台灣的公司標標的 叫做宜專豪泰國的公司 我不知道啦這如果是違法就要板啦你給他發三百萬 三百萬 三百萬 給他發三百萬他也不給你信到啊你說什麼要請去廟 你請去就要去分解就現場就給你搞啦 就給你分解啦部長 院長 這你看啊 你看下去"},{"start":25411.7,"end":25438.415,"text":"報告委員那個元玉科技的元玉科技那個公司他已經被我們罰到900萬了他也提出一個清理的計畫書當然我們還是給他時間因為他有給我們一個新的承諾書是9月5號以前在這個池 現在池的上面已經沒有了自動池上面沒有了是他放在旁邊但是我們認為他還是違反廢清法而且我們還是給他一點點時間他們提出來希望9月5號以前我們現在正在審他的這個計畫"},{"start":25439.595,"end":25466.117,"text":"如果他真的是非常糟糕的話我已經公開說了我會接手而且代位求償然後給他最重的處罰甚至他以後都沒有辦法營運所以這個他要負起責任的另外一個剛剛委員說的是屏東的三寶這個已經被我們退回去了希望他們再補正因為這邊算是什麼優良的農地他們必須考量限地的一個狀況所以我們其實環境部已經退回去了"},{"start":25466.966,"end":25494.512,"text":"院長 我看家裡那個光電板那個可能是擺爛 要不然放到桌子裡到樓尾或是政府要去檢查環境部是強力的要求他我們到現場去看我也強力的要求他那都 山館是誰人的是公司都炒不夠 亂七八糟相同地區有其他的我們本土的廠商跟我們配合的意願結果都很好就這一家 他這個態度上我覺得大有問題"},{"start":25495.976,"end":25517.826,"text":"環境部已經連續開發 而且有更強硬的手段郭委員 我們台灣壞了三十幾個地方大的三十幾個地方 其他都清完了只剩下這個地方 就是新莊 志鴻池我們看那個老批農場這個剛剛部長有講 我非常欽佩你把這個三家公司 院長這就是屏東內部的老批農場 這裡有八百公頃"},{"start":25525.382,"end":25538.008,"text":"平地茶 有坡度的茶現在整個都要弄光電盤 三家公司也是水土保護區什麼區什麼區都有然後我們的環境部把它退回"},{"start":25540.109,"end":25566.964,"text":"我覺得很有勇氣不過我看他會再檢討重來我們不要再破壞我們的環境了好不好再搞一搞又變成土石油了不會 我已經公開宣布地方有重大疑慮的 破壞生態的我們的疑慮不應該核准好 院長的承諾好 這個是更誇張的我們的台東沿岸要踩50多公里風車"},{"start":25569.13,"end":25587.107,"text":"現在要去屏東的榜山還有獅子鄉要再採11基然後東海岸反風車大聯盟已經成立我們屏東這裡我們加入了叫做東海岸南迴恆春半島反風車大聯盟這就是預計在榜山要採的"},{"start":25593.569,"end":25612.925,"text":"這個一個風車造價2012年是1.2億 1.3億現在可能搞不好2億都要以前海上的風車一隻要8億現在可能要十幾億所以這個成本很高然後賣給台電賣到6塊 7塊 8塊"},{"start":25616.223,"end":25635.274,"text":"然後1.1塊錢的核能你不用你去用7、8塊錢的然後虧損一大堆這個都是要新蓋的喔然後一支一電的風車一年的發電量最多五、六百萬度五、六百萬度而已喔然後它的低頻"},{"start":25636.943,"end":25655.018,"text":"所以他們現在反對大聯盟那我屏東也加入他們要組團來環境部來經濟部抗爭我說我支持你們台東的也要加入這也不能再亂了啦花東那邊都是"},{"start":25656.311,"end":25665.728,"text":"大颱風來 首當其衝 十六級 十七級一定 整兩天來年十七級 爆表那風車動會掉嗎 那風車要怎麼回去"},{"start":25670.692,"end":25696.063,"text":"報告委員 我以前已經在台東有公開說對於這樣的我們是不鼓勵也不支持那他現在是他想要開發但是也報告委員我們在過去這幾個月我們已經把幾個類似這樣的案例全部擋掉了 全部退回了所以請委員放心因為有剩下30秒 一定 我要跟你說你最近去屏東 我都沒出息我都不會去 是怎樣你敢知道"},{"start":25697.734,"end":25724.841,"text":"沒有通知 不通知是載人有的人愛通知就通知不要通知就不要通知第一 去到現場我們好像透明人一樣我們在野黨的委員好像透明人一樣感覺很差喔我最近幾次到各縣市看災我都特別要求我們不要那個儀式型的簡報 講話等等我只要聽聽現場的狀況所以我們都沒有公開的儀式也不會主動的通知那這一點"},{"start":25736.433,"end":25752.229,"text":"好 謝謝蘇清泉委員質詢謝謝卓院長 各部會首長備詢 謝謝好 接下來我們請邱義營委員質詢王弘威委員請準備"},{"start":25772.078,"end":25792.103,"text":"好 謝謝韓院長我是不是請一下行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢各位好院長"},{"start":25792.933,"end":25811.985,"text":"院長好 院長我想這幾天相當辛苦連續站在備詢台上今天要針對丹納斯颱風跟728豪雨的災後重建特別預算來跟您請教院長我剛剛很認真的聽您的報告關於丹納斯颱風跟728的豪雨"},{"start":25813.326,"end":25825.339,"text":"桃園區在728開始的8天桃園區下了2423毫米這個已經逼近莫拉克的紀錄所以這個豪雨造成了有10萬戶停電農損大概2萬公頃損失超過10億元"},{"start":25829.884,"end":25844.064,"text":"所以立法院在很快的速度包括行政院送來的這個丹納斯的特別條例預算我們很快的速度來進入院會要來今天進行詢問不過院長我要請教一下我們現在這個預算編列600億對不對是"},{"start":25847.688,"end":25870.216,"text":"這個預算600億是上限呢還是他只是現在先框了一個600億未來有沒有追加的可能您的報告裡頭沒有談到這個部分但是財政部長的報告裡面呢卻很清楚的寫到說這個依丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例第五條規定經費上限為新台幣600億元"},{"start":25872.113,"end":25893.305,"text":"院長我為什麼要特別請教這件事情就是說到底這個是上限還是需求評估當年莫拉克我們也便利了一千億但是最後因為不夠所以還追加超過兩千億那如果現在行政院就把它訂定為上限只有六百億的話未來能不能追加那還有沒有舉債的空間"},{"start":25893.945,"end":25912.117,"text":"跟委員報告這個旦那斯颱風以及這個728乃至於大家關心0802往後的數日的災害所造成的損害我們編這個特別預算當然目前我們編的預算規模是600億那我們希望600億能夠去解決現在的問題"},{"start":25913.298,"end":25931.138,"text":"縱然未來還有更多的狀況發生或是我們編列的預算不夠還是仍然可以透過特別預算追加預算的程序來辦理但我們希望在這當中我們用600億能夠大家很準確的來使用善用這個公帑把事情給做好這是現在的原則"},{"start":25931.82,"end":25952.723,"text":"好 如果是這樣 院長這個我看到我特別有準備了一個框框這是你的這個600億大概用在水利設施 電力系統 農業設施 道路跟這個所謂的社會復原那我就一項一項來請教您首先我要跟您請教的是在農業設施的部分"},{"start":25953.703,"end":25978.843,"text":"你現在農業設施編列了101億剛才包括很多的委員包括這個郭國文委員也好或者是蘇清泉委員也好我們來自農業地區的大概就會很關心到底這個農業設施編列101億夠不夠院長您實際去了六龜對不對我讓您看一下這個是您那天去沒有看到的照片這個是甲仙這兩天"},{"start":25980.708,"end":25996.902,"text":"阻塞成了一個艷澀湖我們在昨天前天緊急的把它疏通了所以這個艷澀湖現在解決了但是我很擔心未來他還是會有再形成艷澀湖的可能性那你看到右手邊的這兩個圖一個是在六龜地區的六金橋"},{"start":25997.683,"end":26016.039,"text":"一個是在寶萊的高133的道路這一些土石堆積成這樣其實都是從山上土石流大量的泥沙帶著巨石崩落然後阻塞了道路的通行這個就是在六龜看到的狀況但是"},{"start":26017.5,"end":26040.145,"text":"農業部林保署對於林業的這個防治我常常覺得他們是頭痛醫頭 腳痛醫腳因為他不能過度開發所以每一次有大雨來的時候有地震來的時候有颱風來的時候山上的土石流造成了道路的回堵那每一年我們都要配置很多的怪手在旁邊stand by"},{"start":26041.205,"end":26065.435,"text":"可是這個問題永遠沒有辦法解決所以現在農業設施編列的101億元有沒有包含這一些治山治水的計畫部長我跟委員報告在100.66億裡面大概跟治山防洪的部分大概有51.10的部分大概就會處理這個治山防洪的部分"},{"start":26066.704,"end":26087.962,"text":"然後將近50億是在處理農糧還有漁業的這些專案部分所以你置山防洪大概是50億嘛是不是這樣那50億你要怎麼分配高雄會分配多少因為你這一次的受災不是只有在高雄地區啊對我知道這個部分這個院長你再看一下這張照片這是今天早上我們去現場會刊的照片這個也是在六龜啊"},{"start":26088.582,"end":26100.632,"text":"也是因為這次好雨沖刷這原來是一條大的排水浚溝那現在變成這樣子整個陸基是滔工旁邊的是一個山莊那旁邊的居民都非常的擔憂"},{"start":26103.561,"end":26130.379,"text":"這個修復道路的修復是公路局要去修復可是泥水沖刷大雨沖刷來是因為山上的土石流太過於嚴重所以部長我要跟您討論就是說未來在林務署的治山治水的部分你們在山上所做的藍沙壩或是山上能不能有一些基礎的建設來防止這樣子的大量的土石崩落"},{"start":26131.32,"end":26153.908,"text":"能不能再多做一些什麼東西我想跟委員報告其實在我們明年度就是那個系統性治水的方案裡面從集水機到波渡到下游的農田水利的部分它是串接在一起的農業部的年度的預算從上游到一直到下游大概有120億但是今年因為有前瞻還有易後的部分有到170億"},{"start":26155.248,"end":26177.176,"text":"那這個部分我想我們會盡量的去處理這個部分那第二個部分是您剛才說的就是說有一部分因為我們在這次特別災害在列入的時候是經過公共工程委員會去詢問的地方政府所需要的部分會納入那如果說在那個時間點沒有納入的話我想農業部也會用我們自己的預算去處理"},{"start":26177.97,"end":26196.601,"text":"其實部長這些東西這些點你應該都很清楚因為我們也談過很多次也去會堪過很多次包括你們林務署也都非常的清楚我今天只是特別把這個照片讓院長知道這個治山治水那個照片一條道路還有房子在我想那個是急迫性的危險"},{"start":26197.741,"end":26215.814,"text":"這個是非常急迫性的危險院長你看到下面的路基是完全掏空它其實不是一條道路它其實本來是一個很大的排水溝它旁邊都是有泥做的排水溝是整個被沖刷掉了然後現在道路掏空接下來除了治山治水的部分以外"},{"start":26216.855,"end":26234.601,"text":"接下來要跟大家要跟部長您談到的或者是跟院長請教的就是在農業災損的部分我們現在講到農業災損我們是立即補助超過八成的補助但農業設施我們也是在補助不過我們最近我們幾位立委提出了一個新的概念叫做以租換貸"},{"start":26236.081,"end":26256.4,"text":"我們過去的農業的設施是讓農民去貸款嘛可是你看到現在這個農業設施垂潘繚繚啊他之前的貸款都不知道要行但是已經賣掉了他沒錢要怎麼再去再去省錢要一架的貸款所以對農民來講這個是雪上加霜來下一頁好"},{"start":26257.359,"end":26270.264,"text":"這一個概念提出來之後農信保基金說這個是可行的但是農糧署說這個不可行因為你們今年的補助才剛剛給所以現在不能夠再改現在不能夠再給"},{"start":26271.752,"end":26292.725,"text":"院長你會不會覺得這個太過於僵化啦能不能有一些彈性的調整或是一個這樣的一個新的措施能不能納入思考我跟委員報告如果農糧署做這樣的回答我代替農糧署跟您說抱歉啦其實以政策面來講我是支持這個方向而且我特別去開會了那現在要處理的是兩個問題一個是"},{"start":26295.323,"end":26316.252,"text":"溫室的業者他現在有沒有能力蓋這個東西因為他們現在都在修其他的地方所以我才會說我們在年底之前我們一定會成立完整的一個規劃出來而且先用示範場域的方式去處理那示範場域的部分可能有一部分牽涉到台塘地的部分我們會跟經濟部還有台塘去做協商"},{"start":26317.173,"end":26325.487,"text":"讓他真正的有一個business model以後那這樣的話溫室業者也願意自動投入然後後面的融資就是由農信寶這邊來處理"},{"start":26327.805,"end":26351.442,"text":"我是覺得很多的政策應該是要快速然後要能夠彈性的運用要能夠針對到農民 災民的需求如果你現在還要有一個business model出來的話會不會到時候農民會覺得這個東西其實是看得到吃不到你的研議啦 然後又要盤點啦 又要計算啦然後又要計算它到底有沒有利潤可回收"},{"start":26352.594,"end":26372.473,"text":"我還是期待以租換代這件事情是不是能夠請院長也能夠指示農業部我們盡速的加速的去研議然後把我們的對於農業設施的不管是補助也好對於農業設施的這一些減免我覺得這個政策能夠做一個大幅的調整院長這可以嗎"},{"start":26373.137,"end":26401.499,"text":"我們到各縣市區的時候我親口聽見部長也是在講這樣的概念所以委員的建議跟部長的想法是一樣現在我們把想的東西把它融合為一用一個比較完整周延的方式那對剛剛農糧署所提出的他應該有他的依據我們叫他做解釋清楚以部長的這個方式如果說我們的概念想法是一樣那是不是我們就加速來推動加速來進行我們一定會加速 好不好來 下一位 接下來要跟"},{"start":26402.299,"end":26431.025,"text":"部長談到的我們講到了土石流來但是其實在這一次有很多的災民是無家可歸的因為土石流淹沒了他的家過去莫拉克的時候因為是大幅的滅村所以我們建置了永久屋但是這一次因為土石流導致家屋全毀的沒有永久屋可以住我們現在只有講說修繕或者是補貼他租屋您知道在鄉下地區要租屋不是那麼樣的容易"},{"start":26431.525,"end":26459.343,"text":"那我覺得在永久屋的建置上面大安園區其實還有空地有沒有可能去做一些研議讓政府現在先蓋一些臨時的永久屋我覺得方便未來或者是現在的災民如果有這樣的需求其實我們是可以協助他們的我覺得這個是不是也能夠請內政部來納入考量在我們的整個幫助災民的租屋方面"},{"start":26460.463,"end":26488.067,"text":"納入考量可以嗎是類似組合屋的概念嗎是我們這次在當當是颱風之後有跟地方政府聯繫如果有需要有組合屋我們來想辦法但到目前為止都沒有得到說有需求如果說有需求有啦我們有這個需求啦但是因為我們地方政府就把它直接處理掉了我現在要談的就是說整個大方向透過我們這個災後重建第二要談到就是說道路的建設其實這次道路損壞非常嚴重嘛"},{"start":26488.447,"end":26506.113,"text":"但是我看到您的報告裡面只有講到道路的建設要花89億但是道路建好了之後附近受災的觀光復蘇好像沒有包含在這一些重建的計畫裡頭這個是不是也能夠把它補足進去六龜寶萊地區的道路復蘇之後"},{"start":26508.874,"end":26532.643,"text":"到底他的觀光能不能一併協助復蘇這個我也很期待交通部跟觀光署也能夠來協助我們六龜跟甲仙甚至桃園原住民地區的這些觀光的復蘇計畫你現在看起來只有道路交通建設那你的道路計畫橋樑計畫是不是能夠有一些不同的思維您看到這個土石已經都快跟橋一樣高了"},{"start":26533.123,"end":26552.263,"text":"所以未來交通部在這些道路建設計畫裡頭是不是能夠有一些新的設計新的構想是 報告委員因為我們有到現場去看您也在現場整個河川的流向已經完全改變了所以未來整個道路的設計當然會順著現在大自然改變的方向下去改變設計這是必然要做的"},{"start":26552.643,"end":26577.937,"text":"那您剛所提到的觀光的問題我們等硬體的建設先完成之後後續我們會來思考怎麼樣透過活動把旅客帶到現在的災區因為大家對於災區的印象都還是災區的那個樣子但是等它完成之後你不能等你的硬體全部都做好以後才開始要做觀光的復甦那可能又是好幾年之後了我們目前已經都在計畫當中但是要等硬體完成之後我們開始帶旅客到現在的道路如果"},{"start":26578.417,"end":26595.811,"text":"已經搶通安全無虞的狀態之下我覺得其實是可以某一個程度上去協助災區的這些觀光的付出好 可以 那我們就提早現在先到災區去了解看現在可以辦什麼樣子的活動好 最後一個部長我要跟您討論的就是電網防災任性的部分來 那兩位部長可以請回"},{"start":26598.513,"end":26617.97,"text":"每一次颱風來或者是大雨來其實院長你可以看到台電總是最忙碌最辛苦的台電一千億的撥補在立法院屢次都不通過但是只要停電大家就會開始一直希望台電趕快去復電我今天要跟您談的是防災任性來下一頁"},{"start":26620.927,"end":26633.303,"text":"這個院長您看一下這個照片這個是在屏東的獅子鄉在原住民地區過去因為我們幾次的風災山上常常會受損嚴重所以台電在獅子鄉有做了防災型的微電網"},{"start":26634.525,"end":26661.853,"text":"那防災型的微電網在屋頂上架置太陽能板底下有個大概兩坪大的除電系統就可以預防或者是因應因為風災水災造成的停電那這一次一樣啊在桃園納馬下茂林的山區一樣遇到這些問題工程車開不進去停電停了三天如果我們的防災韌性電網的計劃能夠加速推動到原住民地區去優先設置"},{"start":26662.873,"end":26666.243,"text":"或者您可以設置加護的這個能不能讓經濟部盡速的來研議來推動"},{"start":26669.404,"end":26695.014,"text":"這個特殊地區的微電網設置一直是經濟部台電他們在規劃的過程當中請市長來回應跟委員報告我們這次有編了8億元就是要做這件事情8億夠不夠啊這8億根本蓋不了幾戶啊是 我們會優先在一些偏遠而且容易形成孤島地區的災區優先來設置我們未來也會逐步看這個成效我們會複製"},{"start":26708.981,"end":26729.655,"text":"好 謝謝邱毅英委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝勳 謝謝接下來王宏威委員質詢完畢之後我們將會休息十分鐘卓院長請喝水好 謝謝接下來我們請王宏威委員請質詢"},{"start":26737.776,"end":26758.322,"text":"好 謝謝主席請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢不好意思 請問一下今天經濟部有沒有過來有次長有來是次長請經濟部備詢王委員好"},{"start":26768.429,"end":26794.556,"text":"好 院長 次長在我們這次災後重建預算裡面有一筆非常重要的就是因為這次它缺電的時間非常多很長所以在特別預算裡面有編列了防災韌性就是有關於電網韌性相關的預算我們把它算一下大概"},{"start":26796.038,"end":26810.017,"text":"全部加起來超過100億109億1720萬這是有關於電網韌性的部分在我們的災後重建基金重建預算裡面"},{"start":26811.338,"end":26825.612,"text":"另外我们现在还有一个特别条例也送过来当然很多人讲是普发现金跟支援产业因应对等关税但是其中又是有一个电网任性"},{"start":26827.113,"end":26837.857,"text":"200億所以我們追加預算 對不起兩個特別預算災後重建跟強化韌性特別條例兩個預算309億要補貼給電網韌性那我們都知道在"},{"start":26844.719,"end":26856.943,"text":"上一次今年度的台電的1000億的預算裡面撥補1000億我們把它刪掉所以我想請問一下這個電網韌性真的是用於電網韌性還是變相的撥補這是第一個問題第二個問題我想請問院長"},{"start":26865.117,"end":26872.985,"text":"您知不知道台電在過去曾經推出超過5600億的電網韌性方案請問次長這個方案已經執行幾年了"},{"start":26881.936,"end":26905.525,"text":"跟委員報告這個方案已經從111年我們有編列預算到現在已經第4年最主要我們是把過去集中式的電網希望能夠把它改成分散式的電網也就是這邊講到第一項分散工程第二項強固工程的部分就是一些老舊的設施我們要把它汰換甚至我們要擴充一些我現在問你的是"},{"start":26906.625,"end":26923.812,"text":"它一共是幾年的計劃5600多億幾年計劃跟委員報告這本來是10年的計劃我們希望把它縮短成6年現在要縮短6年執行到第4年了用了多少錢"},{"start":26927.904,"end":26936.51,"text":"我們回去再提供資料給委員連你用多少錢你都不知道但是你現在要跟我們再要309億所以我要問的是"},{"start":26942.051,"end":26968.585,"text":"從111年台電就已經針對電網韌性部分就是因為過去這樣很多小動物小松鼠蛇什麼穿山甲一大堆的所以說要用電網韌性也用了5645億我們政府還參加台電的增資對不對為了要增加這些錢我只問錢去哪裡了"},{"start":26969.751,"end":26996.521,"text":"為什麼如果按照10年計劃每一年起碼有超過560億在執行然後執行到現在你還要錢跟我們報告 這裡面的多也要錢 又也要錢這裡面的110億是針對這一次那麼大的電塔倒下來還有3000多根電桿倒下來要去修護的錢所以在特別條例裡面我們有沒有擋你們嗎任性條例的是我們要針對幾個科學園區我們發覺"},{"start":26999.582,"end":27013.229,"text":"任性不足 我們要把它加強那您說的那個本來10年5600億我們把它縮短4年到現在應該是縮短總共6年 因為執行2年到現在錢多少 花了多少錢你花多少錢都沒有辦法告訴我"},{"start":27017.651,"end":27042.013,"text":"就只是一味的要錢原來強化的計畫逐年在進行所以前兩部分是新增加出來的想法因為我任性起碼要了300億這兩個特別條例5645億錢花到哪裡去錢花了什麼你現在把它變成6年花了多少錢我也都不知道我們請台電馬上整理出來向委員報告請盡快整理那是逐年該做的事情所以我們一再講"},{"start":27043.234,"end":27068.022,"text":"我們為什麼要監督對不對我們為什麼要審查預算不是刪預算叫做亂刪預算所以委員提出的 否則的話立法院不需要立法委員只要有一個橡皮圖章就好了你要多少錢我就代給你就好了委員提出的這個問題我們就必須要完整的向委員做說明好 那先時間暫停一下次長可以請回我請環境部長時間暫停 請環境部長備詢"},{"start":27082.645,"end":27095.762,"text":"在這次的丹納斯颱風一直到後來的風災,光電板、光電垃圾、光電粉末引起了國人的重視。"},{"start":27097.236,"end":27116.065,"text":"那你一開始說他沒有毒啊那我們覺得沒有毒那為什麼一定要趕快去清理呢那一個有13.5萬片受損災後一個月光電板仍然沒有清完請問一下部長到底什麼時候才會把它清的完"},{"start":27116.53,"end":27140.606,"text":"好 報告委員第一個是當地的很多的漁民告訴我說因為很多人說光電板有毒 魚都不能吃所以造成他們的困擾他們要我一定要說得出來那我們也的確到現場測了三次的滯洪池因為那個都不是雨溫 滯洪池的水質並沒有任何的重金屬或各種的污染所以我才說出來讓大家可以知道所以我並不是說像委員說的"},{"start":27141.54,"end":27157.686,"text":"至於說清楚基本上我們在發生災害的兩個禮拜後其實已經清楚遠離池面上現在33個受損的案場只剩下一個場就叫新莊之虹子就是某一家公司只剩下一個場所以你覺得清理的成績很棒囉"},{"start":27159.206,"end":27183.073,"text":"當然那家公司他要自己清除他要自己負責清除的什麼時候 清到什麼時候他目前給我們的承諾因為我們已經罰到最重的300萬可以連續連續再開罰那他最近給我們的一個計劃書趕快給我一個時間嘛他是預計在9月5號那我們就在審查當中9月5號 好如果仍然不能清除政府要接手嗎"},{"start":27184.193,"end":27204.34,"text":"如果他還是這樣破壞環境我們會依照廢清法71條我們要代位求償我們來清除然後跟他全部的清查表示說我們保護這個環境所以9月5號如果仍然不能清除政府會去接手委員這個接手是我們幫我們環境討回這個公道不是說我們要來付錢"},{"start":27205.299,"end":27212.924,"text":"我了解啊 你都還沒看我後面我就說要向業者求償啊我當然知道 我怎麼會讓你付錢呢憑什麼讓我們付錢啊憑什麼讓我們納稅人付錢啊你怎麼還會講這個答案"},{"start":27218.206,"end":27245.146,"text":"我的意思是說你們什麼時候會接手基本上我們還在審他的計畫書合不合理因為那家公司已經黃流非常多次了這一次事件 院長這一次事件非常特殊我們發展能源這個光電板造成了光電垃圾然後污染我們的製洪池污染我們的農田 污染我們的海域到目前為止都還沒有清完行政效率之低"},{"start":27248.608,"end":27261.367,"text":"只剩下一個 你再講啊 只剩下一個從現在到那次颱風已經多久了 超過一個月 只剩下一個所以我要給你怎麼樣 我給你按個讚好不好"},{"start":27263.285,"end":27290.49,"text":"那個是廠商自己要負的責任那個是廠商自己要負的責任喔院長我今天一個一個問他一直覺得他做得很好我不懂欸我們要強力監督這些廠商強力監督 監督到現在還沒有清完好 另外我為什麼再講我說政府先接手要再向業者求償但是但是現在包含光電很多光電真的 其實倒閉的很多啦"},{"start":27291.874,"end":27308.333,"text":"倒閉的很多因為他們很多都是跟銀行貸款的他可以這樣子拍拍屁股走人所以我們這個其實未來要把它建立一套SOP這是像違建一樣違建也是一樣你不拆有時候政府代為"},{"start":27309.634,"end":27329.239,"text":"然後代為執行然後是要跟業者求償的但是如果業者倒閉如果業者拍拍屁股走人的時候那這個錢跟誰去清償所以我希望這個案例這一次的教訓我們要建立一套SOP可不可以 院長我們從"},{"start":27332.543,"end":27349.796,"text":"歷次的這個案件當中我們都會去深刻的檢討如果讓速度更快 支持面更廣泛那我們的韌性能夠更加強這三個不足我日期已經講過了我希望你們趕快建立SOB時間拜託暫停一下 請部長請回我要請勞動部長時間暫停 請勞動部備詢勞動部長有來嗎"},{"start":27361.767,"end":27385.437,"text":"因為他不再重建好我把想成追加預算沒問題勞動部沒有來沒有好院長在上個星期我特別針對救安基金的部分你應該回去應該有所瞭解也就是被踢爆的羅景任導演"},{"start":27386.854,"end":27410.982,"text":"他的三個案子都已經被審計部的調查報告裡面直接揪出弊端要求救安基金把這個錢回補進去就是因為他的用途是不符合相關規定的好那你以為就是羅景任導演一個人的事情嗎一個團隊的事"},{"start":27412.872,"end":27440.525,"text":"結果我們再深入追查這個救安基金太有鬼了因為它全部都是用開口合約連續三年開口合約每一年都跟三個廠商來簽約這三個廠商每一年都一模一樣民視 年代 三立驚不驚喜"},{"start":27441.943,"end":27468.402,"text":"意不意外搞了半天這個已經被審計部揪出有弊端的三年的開口合約原來真正的廠商是民視三立年代這都是被我們認為跟綠營關係特別好稱之為綠媒有的人稱之為黨媒"},{"start":27470.37,"end":27474.733,"text":"每一年它的金額3100萬3700萬3700多萬合計三年一億通通集中這三個廠商"},{"start":27483.744,"end":27499.544,"text":"這麼集中這麼湊巧過去我們也講過立法院預算中心就提過我們過去很多的標案特別是梅軒的部分過度集中我記得院長針對這個事情的時候你也認為如果有這樣的問題應該有所檢討對不對是"},{"start":27503.373,"end":27532.613,"text":"可是現在的問題來了當然111年112年113年度不是你的你當院長但是他發生的果然又過度集中不但過度集中而且都是開口契約更扯的是這個開口契約最後他結案請款跟原來他契約的內容完全部分不相符合所以為什麼被監察院的審計部揪出弊端"},{"start":27533.813,"end":27561.249,"text":"譬如說他裡面的這些開口契約他裡面並沒有什麼音樂會他生出一個音樂會就是許明春的音樂會生出了一個音樂會本來他應該是製作影片他應該要有35個好35個影片結果呢沒有他用一個"},{"start":27563.663,"end":27575.029,"text":"一個音樂會然後剪出好幾個影片來用這樣來交差一個演唱會謝謝你一個演唱會交差了"},{"start":27577.698,"end":27601.017,"text":"還有呢他裡面別說要求有影片要5支你要有網路媒體宣傳電視脫波好5支影片來了他只拍了一部影片你要5支影片對不對這5支影片這5支影片就是這一部影片我給你剪成5個1分鐘的影片交差也拿到錢"},{"start":27602.967,"end":27630.478,"text":"你都笑了可以這樣嗎所以審計部過不了關再來影片兩支 廣告短片一支也是網路行銷電視拖播很厲害拍一支影片上下集給你一樣錢照樣拿到每一年都可以拿到1000多萬所以我在上個禮拜就講如果"},{"start":27631.857,"end":27659.031,"text":"如果你們行政院不究責的話勞動部不究責的話竟然還說救安基金現在這些省基部不認賬的認為有弊端的你還想要編列到公務預算我們絕對不容許所以院長我上個星期就質詢請問一下有關於救安基金的這些弊端"},{"start":27660.35,"end":27676.236,"text":"你有去指示嗎你有要求調查嗎洪部長上任我要他做的兩件事一個是對於霸凌事件全面調查第二是提升整個勞動部甚至包括北分署裡面的士氣工作士氣後來我看看各種的"},{"start":27678.763,"end":27702.23,"text":"情況一直在發生我再度要求他就救安基金要全面的去盤查到目前為止我也是這樣跟大家說如果委員說的如果委員剛剛說的就是事情的全貌或者是一部分我會請勞動部將全貌跟委員報告我們再來找出現在應該有的責任那如果該"},{"start":27703.888,"end":27710.956,"text":"法辦 我們就法辦他已經在程序當中了院長 我剛才講的狀況不是我王宏威說的事實機構的調查報告所以你一定要對此有所回應調查清楚不要再用納稅人權去填補這些原封不章的推遲和漏洞好不好"},{"start":27727.981,"end":27738.373,"text":"好 謝謝王宏文委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢謝謝我們休息之後我們請陳冠廷委員準備質詢現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":28366.499,"end":28393.5,"text":"報告委員會 我們繼續開會接下來請陳冠廷委員質詢楊瓊英委員請準備你好 請院長麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":28404.531,"end":28433.364,"text":"安國元好 市長好上次我們主要是針對農業那這是我們針對災後的觀光產業的這個復興的一些方案來跟院長做討論那主要是針對我們嘉義縣特別是山區也是受到風災這個影響很重要的很重的這些地方包含我們太平 竹崎 大埔等等這一些的產業的合作社也好或者是這個發展協會或者是各商圈他們急需要的幫助"},{"start":28434.384,"end":28457.111,"text":"院長現在在太平雲梯也就是在我們嘉義縣的山區他每年大概要支付600萬租金給阿里山的管理處再加上3000萬的行政的營運的成本成本就是3600萬左右類似這樣子的情況還有包含族籍的觀音瀑布產業合作社等等這些都是要向阿館處承租"},{"start":28458.251,"end":28479.894,"text":"可是近年不僅僅是一年其實這三年來風災基本上夏季都是非常的嚴重只要有颱風警報那必須就是以安全為主就要關閉所以說遊客它是大幅減少這一次的颱風它不僅僅是颱風當天還有後續的豪雨等於說七八月的旅遊旺季基本上是整個泡湯"},{"start":28480.979,"end":28499.357,"text":"再來就是7月6號的颱風還重創當地攤商的生財契助還有這些帆布設施這些全部都是有我想請教一下在特別條例裡面的第4條第9項的文化觀光振興當中是不是可以把這類的重要的觀光設施的紓困來給予納入"},{"start":28502.915,"end":28529.316,"text":"報告委員針對太平的這個地方這個梯的部分我們這個租金會跟他們來討論看怎麼樣減免他們也可以提出申請業者可以提出申請因為確實我們這段時間遇到很多的天災跟風災的狀況另外就是硬體受損的部分我們也在思考看怎麼樣協助業者或者是說用公共的方式在旁邊該怎麼樣做硬體的建設這個部分我們也都開始跟他們在溝通"},{"start":28529.696,"end":28546.071,"text":"好 謝謝部長我是希望說比照COVID的期間提供一些營運上面的協助讓他們過衝擊現在剛才提到其實不只是交通部經濟部有推出受災店家的援助方案每戶他是補助一萬元"},{"start":28546.952,"end":28571.01,"text":"不過是要稅籍的證明稅籍證明的部分其實不管是太平雲梯還是其他合作社方式經營的攤商他們是一個稅籍下是有多個攤位所以我認為說這個申請條件其實也不是我們是一般的鄉親都不斷地來提出來好像過於嚴苛也就是說很多有在經營的攤商他們都有在跟合作社都有往來他不一定有獨立的稅籍他可能沒辦法請你"},{"start":28571.63,"end":28594.035,"text":"所以也不是只有太平有這樣的狀況大埔也是有很多實際跟商圈 協會有往來但不一定有獨立的稅籍我是不是建議是不是准以合作社或者是商圈或者是協會能夠用造冊方式呈報當然是要切解來去予以輔助符合我們崇寬認定的精神不知道院長或者是部長 次長有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":28595.291,"end":28621.659,"text":"跟委員報告 一些市場攤販的話只要是跟地方政府那邊有列管 有案的話其實我們都可以充寬來認定好 希望就是可以考慮一下我們的建議拿入來考量的去做一個想法再來就是災害保險因為觀光設施有些是天然 有些是人造的有些是天然設施裡面有一些人造的協助的景觀等等"},{"start":28622.839,"end":28635.995,"text":"我們是希望說未來可不可以考慮建立觀光設施的天災保險機制讓這補助一部分的保費這樣子儘管遇到重大天災的時候還是能夠更快速的恢復運作不知道院長怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":28637.962,"end":28658.873,"text":"這個部分我們請觀光署來研議看怎麼樣做這個保險的部分確實因為每次遇到天災之後我們的觀光業者都會受到一些損害不管是營業方面或者是說硬體設備方面如果有保險的話對他們來說當然是相對是比較安全一些比較有保障一些這個部分我請觀光署來研議看怎麼樣協助"},{"start":28660.174,"end":28667.57,"text":"謝謝 院長接下來我要就是要反映地方的公署的一些問題這可能跟政府採購法第105條有關聯"},{"start":28670.609,"end":28691.991,"text":"愛口合約跟緊急採購制度他們有遇到一些瓶頸我舉個例子就是說風災過後中央的經費其實是很快速的到位但是地方上要執行的話也遇到一些問題還有錢但沒辦法動工怎麼說呢比方說我是山區選出的但是其實山海都是一線很多海區他們最基本的路燈來講"},{"start":28692.972,"end":28716.794,"text":"他沒有完全恢復為什麼到現在還沒有辦法完全恢復因為過去基層的公所他們的限於年度的開口合約也就是說一規定他必須要派工給原得標廠商可是原本只負責零星維修因為從來沒有從嘉義登入過從來沒有從嘉南平原登入過他現在是要面對數百倍數千倍的突發的維修量的時候量能是不足的"},{"start":28717.555,"end":28728.78,"text":"那行政部門可能會說如同我剛剛講的依照政府採購法第105條有賦予機關用緊急採購的權利但是現在的公所的地方公務員他不敢"},{"start":28729.822,"end":28750.301,"text":"這樣子放手做事 為什麼第一個是違約風險可能被原廠商控告第二個是圖利疑慮他可能沒有經過招標程序再來就是事後究責接下來還要接受政風的單位調查第四就算有 有這個魄力去做迫於公所有限的人力他光是要處理民眾的眾多案件他實在騰不出手來做這些事情"},{"start":28751.002,"end":28778.259,"text":"所以院長我的第一個問題是說行政有沒有掌握到現行以單一廠商為主的開口合約模式在面臨大規模災害的時候它有天然的就是先天就有這個能量的限制它沒有辦法緊急搶修所以過了兩個月了不是公所不願意而是真的沒有足夠的能量去做那在法律上當然是有這樣子的法律條文那實際上沒有公務人員敢做這樣子的做法所以說為什麼基層不敢用政府採購法第105條"},{"start":28779.957,"end":28808.51,"text":"有幾個難題他們公所有反應就是第一個法規沒有明確說明假設開口合約廠商能量飽和的時候機關要如何合法的把超出的部分直接適用緊急採購這是第一個部分可能是這個模糊地帶讓基層不敢動再來就是災後的公所人力勘災通報都忙不過來它很難在短時間內完成大量新的巡駕還有溢價還有簽約的流程我今天講這麼多原因是因為我們跟鄉公所不管是鄉長"},{"start":28811.195,"end":28831.549,"text":"都有類似這樣的問題出現不只是嘉義縣 嘉義縣是鄉我想台南市就是區這樣的問題就確實存在我們是想要請教一下有沒有辦法請你們研擬一下怎麼樣去介入主導怎麼樣是讓第一線的公務人員能夠敢做事 能做事"},{"start":28832.213,"end":28853.124,"text":"好委員所說剛剛除了人力的問題我們另外來來討論來設法之外這種緊急的採購開口合約在採購法當中的規定是不是過於的嚴謹或者說應該還有更可以有彈性但是也要在執行上是可行的或者院長我們請工程會啊"},{"start":28854.486,"end":28882.516,"text":"來做一個討論但是我們就為什麼不敢因為沒有潛力沒有潛力的話就會有剛才提到要嘛是土地要嘛就是這樣的天災要嘛就是後面的陣風但是如果由行政院他提出一個標準的流程依流程規章辦理的話相公所就有機可循就是他就知道說有什麼樣法律如果沒有法律至少有一些規章跟一些辦法那就比較好去從事在有安全集合的機制底下我們在前頭的"},{"start":28883.576,"end":28907.611,"text":"盡量把它開放出來這個速度我們希望加速恢復他們的家園這個部分再麻煩院長一定要檢討之前我們有提過相公所的人力配置等等這些都一併納入考量再來可能就是要跟災害就關於電信電信的韌性的相關的政策這個部分要請教院長其實院長根據各個新聞報導在我們嘉義布袋"},{"start":28908.496,"end":28933.973,"text":"那幾個電信業者不同的電信業者他們的網速甚至可以相差到29倍像是之前一段時間台南的七股它那個地區是沒有訊號的也就是說現在的電信業者在基礎設施的投資是有嚴重的失衡就是說有些可能工股比較多的他願意去投資儘管在偏遠地區他願意去投資更多的基地台比方說中華電信現在有34796座"},{"start":28936.014,"end":28958.541,"text":"占全市長的42.4%其他的電信包含像遠傳是2萬多相差是1.2萬座所以說各個不同的業者在災區的收訊其實是有很大的差別的我現在問題在於說現在的市場機制沒有辦法來去保證說偏遠的地方或者是說人口不集中的地方它的通訊任性的時候政府應該要扮演什麼角色"},{"start":28959.241,"end":28967.389,"text":"或者是說政府認為是使用網路業者應要負的責任那你會怎麼樣要求業者負起相關的社會責任"},{"start":28968.792,"end":28996.03,"text":"是 跟委員報告在偏鄉或山區這邊我們有個電信普及服務制度這個是大概從電信法時期以來從80幾年以來一直都在持續在推進目前這個業務也雖然在數位部成立之後是交由數位部但是NCC跟數位部都有密切在合作在業者相關的一些重大比方說合併案裡頭我們都有要求在偏鄉地區要有增加網路建設的一些容量"},{"start":28997.431,"end":29012.147,"text":"委員提到第二部分,在非偏鄉的部分的建設,因為我們現在都有透過資訊公開的方式,比如說相關民間的業者或國際一些測數的評比,會讓業者有個他律自律的機制。"},{"start":29017.412,"end":29037.42,"text":"那另外如果說他網路品質不好也會民眾會跟NCC來申訴那這個申訴量也是變成是一個約束業者來不斷改進的一個動力可是剛才我提到的如果這樣可以有效的約束業者的話那為什麼他們的投資還是一樣所以這個是"},{"start":29038.74,"end":29064.845,"text":"我們現在有沒有有效的辦法因為現在已經看到狀況是這樣子表示說現在過去你剛剛提到的這些機制沒有成功的要求他們做出應該的社會責任跟他的投資是的 就是這一部分的話在投資的產業輔導方面過去在數位被成立之前我們在相關的一些潛在預算也有所補助叫他們要在重要的設施或者偏鄉繼續要加持建設我應該是這麼說好了"},{"start":29065.385,"end":29086.634,"text":"未來這個是義務它不是只是他們只是叫我們求利而已它是符合公共性的要求所以它有強制性的覆蓋性的覆蓋率的義務還有一些備援能力的指標我希望你們能夠有強制性的數字去要求最基本的社會公義它是公家的國家的頻寬國家的資源委員剛剛講到未來是他們的責任"},{"start":29089.495,"end":29108.361,"text":"也是我們共同的責任我說過這次的風災我們發現政府各項甚至包括民生設施的任性不足所以民間業者要負起這個責任他拿了相當大的特許的權利他就必須負起這樣的責任我請通常會要求民間業者在所有偏鄉地區"},{"start":29109.381,"end":29131.845,"text":"如果他沒有把他的網速服務給他穩定提升的話將來我們在這個地方所造成的城市韌性還是不足所以用這個標準要去跟他要求提出一個改善的計畫來因為我們不講過去我們講未來現在有這個問題我們就來把它解決覆蓋率重要的指標速度這個是民眾直接有感受到的沒有就是沒有不夠就是不夠我要要求業者負起責任"},{"start":29133.086,"end":29144.664,"text":"謝謝 院長我們接下來針對農業金融相關的貸款額度來跟你做一些討論這一次風災過後農友們他們關心快速恢復就是復耕復建等等請農業部"},{"start":29148.449,"end":29173.265,"text":"如果我們單看水平的棚架的網市或者是塑膠布的溫網市為主的這些農業的統計全台被害面積是495公頃加一線佔397公頃所以是各縣市之水現在他們的反應就是我們的農業反應復耕的貸款程序是非常的繁瑣還會增加基層農會的負擔特別是現行的簡易式的塑膠布溫網市每分地貸款90萬可是如果我"},{"start":29174.205,"end":29180.992,"text":"農友想要改建為結構強固型的文廣室他必須要在額外辦理不管是專業農帶或者是一般性貸款等等"},{"start":29182.964,"end":29208.558,"text":"如果他同時要辦理復耕型的復健貸款跟專業的農貸或者是一般性貸款的兩個文件其實是造成農友跟基層農會作業上的困擾所以想請教院長是不是可以檢討或者是調整一下政策讓受債農友如果他有意願直接改建為結構型人物往事的時候能夠放開規定跟申請流程直接核給每分地的貸款180萬元減少行政作業上的重複跟不便"},{"start":29209.238,"end":29218.651,"text":"因為如果他們現在就要重建短時間又要錯過住家的時機是不是可以給我們一個比較明確的時刻表讓我們知道說可以不用無限期的營運部長你怎麼看這個部分"},{"start":29219.936,"end":29247.977,"text":"我跟委員報告就是您剛才說的就是有一些運往是他在這次巡圍以後他想要直接升級的部分那這個升級的部分的專案貸款的部分那我之前也跟農金署談過他們也同意就是以他最後升級的那個標的強固形的話就用強固形的那個標準來處理而不是用原來復建成原來樣子的那個金額來貸款所以這個部分已經有解決"},{"start":29249.632,"end":29252.168,"text":"再來就是貸款要點修正扣的適用性"},{"start":29253.497,"end":29280.459,"text":"其實風災之後一開始沒有信心就是要用資金或者是立即重建他們可能會盤點完損失之後評估完市場之後才願意要投資更具耐災性的結構型設施就像我們剛才提到的這種可是現在根據農民組織跟農企業天然災害復耕的貸款要點裡面有說農友必須要受貸證明文件開立一日的15日內辦理貸款如果他原本不打算要做簡易型的後來又改變行業"},{"start":29281.34,"end":29309.737,"text":"可能會超過15日的限制沒有辦法使用不知道部長針對這個部分這個部分我想我們我也跟農經署講過就是當你要修復一個溫室的時候你可能會考慮比較多所以在時間上只要他有拿到那個受災的證明然後他的時間是可以延長而且只要他在一段這個時間不會說一定是15天那我也不希望說要變成一個月兩個月因為他們特別是現在"},{"start":29319.773,"end":29343.3,"text":"好謝謝陳冠廷委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝卓院長請喝水好接下來我們請楊瓊英委員質詢林一軍委員請準備"},{"start":29353.018,"end":29366.147,"text":"院會主席 我們敬愛的韓院長行政院卓院長所領軍的行政團隊各位同仁 新聞界的朋友 楊瓊瑜發言院長 首先邀請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選梁委員好"},{"start":29379.11,"end":29393.818,"text":"院長好這一次呢這個丹納斯颱風跟728的豪雨重創了中南部跟花東地區行政院也提出了600億的特別預算立法院"},{"start":29394.278,"end":29420.536,"text":"也在8月15號三讀通過總統也在8月19號也正式公佈所以幫助災民是第一優先這是非常的重要但是我們也要針對於所編列的預算我們一起來討論首先本席要請教這些你們所編列的項目真的是全部提供災後復原所使用嗎請做說明這個部分"},{"start":29422.418,"end":29451.15,"text":"當然農損的部分還有房屋修繕的部分直接眼睛看見的是這個還有電線的修復通訊的修復這個都是另外這是大嶼下載很多山區更有很多原住民區所以我們對於交通道路跟原住民的區域的部分也做了一些相關的補助社福呢社福的部分呢是這個都包括在這裡"},{"start":29452.921,"end":29467.142,"text":"可是你的回答並不是那麼精準因為你說這是針對原住民不只如此 全民要照顧所以本席首先提問的就是說你這些項目是真的都是提供災後復原使用嗎"},{"start":29469.244,"end":29496.718,"text":"所以本席要來提問也就是說是不是有裡面包括了早應該做的治水啊排水啊你的水利工程還有也就是原本已經做了但是成效不佳的還有一些的項目也把它編入到再後重建如果真有如此將舊案包裝成為再後的工程那我們行政院也要給國務院說明清楚啊"},{"start":29498.088,"end":29517.217,"text":"很多是因為這次的強風降雨之後毀損的很多的道路很多的溪流他改道了這當然也符合我們這一次的特別條例所編的預算強修強險都要把他救回來無論過去做了多少他總是還有一些源頭末端的工程要做"},{"start":29517.717,"end":29543.945,"text":"所以源頭末端他並不是在這一次直接相關所以間接相關也好不管沒有相關也好本期是希望所有的預算都是人民的納稅錢我到各地去包括那個核心的整治我都說這個錢這邊的錢要放在眼前所看到核心的整治對於中長期的部分我們希望放到未來的四年一千億縣市管核酸改善工程裡面去"},{"start":29544.085,"end":29562.755,"text":"你還是沒針對本期的提問針對這600億是不是全數都用在災後復原那其中你的回答似乎有部分不是但是本強還是告訴你我們全力的支持我們的災民全力的支持復建但是錢必須要透明的給國人說明清楚接下來本期就要請教"},{"start":29565.776,"end":29585.965,"text":"接下來本校要請教電力跟交通它的運行我們要如何去強化因為在這一次的颱風當中將近有百萬戶受損停電甚至在嘉義也有11萬戶是長期長時間的停電非常的辛苦"},{"start":29586.565,"end":29609.244,"text":"那電線桿也數千支導斷在這樣的情況之下本期兩個議題給你請教第一個高鐵是國家非常重大的一個交通命脈在這一次的這個颱風就癱瘓了那未來我們要怎麼樣能夠防止不再這樣的事件發生這是第一個第二個本期要請教"},{"start":29609.804,"end":29627.461,"text":"在這樣的時間 在這樣的情況之下我們的電力在發生導斷這麼三千多支的電線卡那麼這麼百萬戶的來停電當時我們到底有沒有災前的一個安全檢測"},{"start":29629.222,"end":29650.729,"text":"這都是非常重要我們不要等到發生的事情我們支持的編列了110億來作為交通跟電力的一個災禍的整治復原這我們都願意但是我仍舊希望我們事先還是要做好功課請教針對高鐵針對我們這些電線塔導斷的這些問題請院長說明清楚高鐵當然是我們要維護整個電網的韌性供電的正常"},{"start":29658.371,"end":29672.629,"text":"所以在電網韌性方面我們除了現在搶修搶險之外我們已經請台電全國性的地下電網的一個評估希望能夠在未來展開那至於說全國性的地下電網展開"},{"start":29675.009,"end":29702.817,"text":"地下電網的評估地下電網評估展開評估因為這個不是一天兩天的事情有沒有預計什麼時候會出來呢他現在有對明年有初步的一個期程明年會初步出來全國地下電網沒有 初步期程說哪些優先地方可以先做那還要有充裕的經費才能做那關於電塔倒下來的時候這個很多是電線桿本身被風追倒也有一些是路數 行道數把電線桿給弄倒了"},{"start":29703.937,"end":29724.892,"text":"所以這個加強要中央台電跟地方政府都要合力在風災之前 颱風來之前要整修整個電線跟行道對 院長你講的這個終於我們兩個意見是一樣的你必須將這次慘痛的教訓我們要怎麼樣去做檢測這非常的重要"},{"start":29726.203,"end":29736.393,"text":"跟水溝一樣啊台風要來你趕快去清水溝清了它不會堵住不會回堵不會淹水這是各縣市政府都在做的縣市政府也要負起這樣的效率"},{"start":29737.453,"end":29759.286,"text":"對 所以我們在台電的這個部分你導斷了數千支那我們未來要怎麼做我們看的是第一個搶救第二個未來要怎麼做有建議 除了電網的地下之外就是這個電線桿的韌性能不能加強有沒有辦法設定說讓它不要一次次全排倒下區斷性的做一個比較強化的固定"},{"start":29760.026,"end":29767.164,"text":"本席聽到您有要開始地下整個電網的一個評估我也希望將評估報告給本席那針對於這個高鐵"},{"start":29771.353,"end":29799.635,"text":"報告委員高鐵其實它的韌性相對於其他的運具來說是比較強的不過已經發生事情了你還說比較強報告委員您說的這是單一事件這一次的事件是這個樣子它不是因為風力太強它是因為有一個物品因為風吹過來去打到它的電線上面所以它必須要停止那我們在很短的時間裡面把障礙物清除完之後就又復始了那天的狀況是這個樣子"},{"start":29801.196,"end":29825.992,"text":"交通尤其高鐵是非常重要台灣非常重要的一個交通系統所以您不管任何的原因應該我們要誠懇的去檢討怎麼樣讓它不再發生讓民眾可以安心這是本席的要求接下來本席要跟院長討論救命錢不能等農損的補助我們知道"},{"start":29827.032,"end":29855.166,"text":"農民非常的辛苦台灣以農立國這非常的重要所以因此在農損的方面我們要怎麼樣迅速快速協助我們的農民非常重要你看到本席的旁邊上面我們七八月是英植玉米正在採收的時候當我們的農民真的採收的時候打開一看我真的真的真的大家不知所措整區都沒有辦法收成因為他的玉米需已經"},{"start":29857.086,"end":29879.659,"text":"這個臭蛋上面的玉米果發霉再剝開下面的玉米因為泡水的關係全部發芽兩三天就發芽全區都沒有了一年的收成就沒有了旁邊是什麼院長你看旁邊那個瓜上面瓜藤上面是什麼"},{"start":29881.108,"end":29903.128,"text":"旁邊的藤上面是什麼他種的黑黑的黑黑的那是什麼我告訴你 本期告訴你那是南瓜南瓜因為雷暴雨我們的土地都是水沒有辦法呼吸沒有辦法提供養分給我們的藤藤沒有辦法給果實所以小克子掉下來爛掉了有細菌"},{"start":29904.226,"end":29931.101,"text":"大顆的落在那個藤上面可是也因為雷暴雨一直沖所以它也裂國了在這種情況之下我們的農民苦不堪言所以我具體建議針對於農損我們必須要立即尤其簡化這個程序怎麼簡化我們有四方來查你已經全區九成九都已經沒有收成了"},{"start":29932.315,"end":29949.704,"text":"我當場要求不要在市區再去查了這樣子會讓我們浪費很多的時間我們必須在第一時間協助農民做什麼協助他們復耕把這些細菌趕快清除這是農民非常勇敢請教院長"},{"start":29950.956,"end":29979.534,"text":"怎麼辦 是不是應該要簡化程序在非常時期的時候 簡化程序讓我們的農民可以盡快的拿到現金救助第二個 協助他們盡快的復耕 請做說明好 部長是不是程序簡化到什麼程度我跟委員報告 現在我們在簡化的時候我們也一直請公所這邊 就是用農民只要拍的照片 照傳APP對 那現在很多公所他還是不願意認 他還要去現場"},{"start":29980.742,"end":29996.782,"text":"所以我們中央跟地方沒有合作啊我們農民苦不堪言啊第一個齁我連要護根我都有困難啊我們已經他們當初害怕的時候我們已經在天然災害救助辦法裡面我們一直在宣導而且一直在宣導沒有成效啊"},{"start":29998.359,"end":30024.636,"text":"所以一個結論我知道我們的農業部長他非常的專精那我拜託院長我用拜託的農民非常的辛苦血本無歸而且他還要去復耕連土地都細菌那麼多所以我拜託我們這一次要好好去盤點像我們的整個他的藤全部塌掉了 流掉了那我們要不要補助他"},{"start":30025.476,"end":30054.213,"text":"所以我要求第一個我們在先進救助的時候時間速度要快第二個協助復耕速度要快 簡化程序第三個就這一次的教訓我們實際上這麼樣的一個地球暖化這麼樣的一個雷暴雨在這樣子情況之下我們要怎麼樣重新去盤點怎麼協助我們的農民來讓他們可以繼續有這個勇氣繼續耕作下去這程序必須持續的簡化"},{"start":30054.893,"end":30067.913,"text":"最持續的講話地方政府配合的程度跟效率我們也希望能夠經由互相的溝通彼此提高好 加強宣傳跟溝通接下來本校要請教重新的進度務必要透明因為我們現在"},{"start":30070.538,"end":30088.497,"text":"政府有很多的特別預算我們分為三年這一次我們分為三年分為三年大家以往特別預算因為分年所以會有突突拉拉的這個情況院長我相信你也了解這個情況所以本席具體建議在這一次我們的預算你們所編列出來的是191億316億跟93億跨年度"},{"start":30093.101,"end":30114.19,"text":"我們全力的支持的時候我們希望這個預算必須要公開透明因為每一分錢都是人民的納稅錢你必須要花在刀口上本期具體來建議你必須定期公開我們的這個特別預算他的進度必須定期公開以及送立法院可以做得到嗎"},{"start":30115.1,"end":30132.936,"text":"我請各部位要匯集起來我們由政委來負責定期向國人說明請委員能夠支持所有的災民都會謝謝大院在這麼快的速度通過的特別條例我們一起加油要定期公開以及送立法院接下來本席要說因為極端氣候一個颱風一個豪雨"},{"start":30133.456,"end":30161.046,"text":"如果我們在基礎建設的韌性它是不足的那又是下一輪的一個災難產生我們不願意所以本期要建議院長你們應該從這一次的災害那麼這一次的重建能夠得到教訓也就是針對長期的防災氣候調適你必須要把它結合在一起而不是只有頭痛一頭腳痛一腳所以本期要請教你們的長遠防災規劃是什麼"},{"start":30164.873,"end":30191.19,"text":"最上位的概念總統府的氣候變遷委員會他會就氣候變遷所造成的影響來做成政策性的決定那之後我們就會強化現在的防災機制其實現在跟過去十年以來我們的中央應變中心的體制是比較完整因為實際上地球暖化的因應也讓我們很大的挑戰所以必須要如此的去結合去做長遠的規劃"},{"start":30192.651,"end":30218.684,"text":"最後一個議題本集跟你討論最近大家一直在討論特別預算本集上週也跟你討論過你跟地方的一般性補助款現在每一次跟你們討論到中央跟地方的分配額你們都一直在抹黑在野黨甚至財化法的修法你認為當時你說財化法的修法在還沒有修以前是最好的版本請教院長你現在仍舊認為是最好的版本嗎"},{"start":30219.665,"end":30234.027,"text":"請說明我認為當時那個版本是我們執行起來那現在你還認為是最好的版本嗎現在新的裁判法現在你認為到目前為止現在新的裁判法對一些非六都以外的地區是不公平的喔"},{"start":30234.778,"end":30260.037,"text":"你這麼說我要告訴你你們自己執政黨的委員郭國文委員你看他的臉書他說因為要藍白對抗所以禁止他們提案他們也想修也禁止行政院提案到底是真的假的有沒有這回事行政院有備妥相對應責方式有沒有禁止他們提案我們行政院對財化法有備妥方案交由黨團來跟協商但是那個時候"},{"start":30261.63,"end":30267.734,"text":"所以財務法是必須要檢討嗎我們一直認為財務法可以檢討台中市一年給了兩千多億給我們六七百億我們拿回應當的一個公平補助這是合理的 而且是公正的就你那句話 可以檢討的"},{"start":30288.356,"end":30303.962,"text":"好謝謝楊瓊英委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝好接下來我們請林義軍委員質詢王玉明委員請準備"},{"start":30320.164,"end":30324.387,"text":"謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢議員好"},{"start":30336.323,"end":30351.428,"text":"院長好 首先我想先請教院長就是跟本席來自花東地區有關的問題請問這次災後復原重建特別預算的分配是否有充分的考量不同縣市的災損的程度還有有沒有哪一些客觀的標準"},{"start":30352.928,"end":30370.294,"text":"畢竟這次風災除了沿海地區最嚴重的就是山區原住民的整個部落了所以如何確保偏鄉還有弱勢的這些族群譬如我們花東這個整個地區還有山區的原鄉的部落的重建如何不被忽視呢"},{"start":30372.898,"end":30384.527,"text":"委員的問題相當的長第一個災區的認定在條例裡面有提到我們會視它實際上自災的情況主管機關送到行政院來公告所謂災區就會適用"},{"start":30386.752,"end":30415.325,"text":"整個條例裡面相關的預算那所有災區所受到的這個傷害包括農損包括污損包括道路包括水利我們都把它列到今年這次個特別預算裡面來支應所以如果是災區裡面還沒有辦法 災區以外沒有辦法在這個特別條例可以去做處理的我們還有年度的預算農業部還有農損交通部還有其他的這個預算可以來支應"},{"start":30416.855,"end":30445.934,"text":"因為裡面就是說這次的災後的復原重建的特別預算裡面我有看到有一筆特別是針對我們花蓮辦理的萬榮鄉的馬太安西上游的艷澀湖的接測應變與土砂防治的經費有1.2億元的預算我們很怕那個艷澀湖會潰堤下來所以我們包括我們的夢漾顧問花了很多精神去研究認為它有沒有急迫性的危險即使他研究出來告訴我"},{"start":30446.955,"end":30464.382,"text":"除非下很大很大的雨並沒有急迫性的危險我們還是編的預算不要讓他造成現在根據農業部的整個跨部會的專家有諮詢的會議有去評估目前針對這一個他有可能會相當就是說他這樣的話一整座的藍化水庫的蓄水量的驗射壺的問題似乎"},{"start":30465.663,"end":30489.579,"text":"好像開出來的會議的時候是束手無策只能採取以強化監測警戒下游的防檢災的措施是現在是這樣的作為主要的應變策略沒有錯 能不能說明一下因為我嘗試想過其他的方式甚至很大的方式但是很不敢去做大量嘗試中我跟委員報告針對馬太安的部分我們上個禮拜開了一次會然後我們也正式成立一個應變小組跨部會的應變小組"},{"start":30490.66,"end":30511.31,"text":"然後專家在看這個議題的時候相對的現在離溢流口大概還有30公尺左右那未來因為它的壩底比較深比較寬到1.7公里所以它未來如果說滿庫了以後它是溢流的方式不會直接潰堤的第一個說明第二個說明就是現在的上面的土非常軟"},{"start":30512.33,"end":30541.296,"text":"所以任何的機械都沒有辦法上去所以我們必須要等到它的土面 罷面的時候可以承載一些機械的時候才會去處理說是不是有第二個方案把這些溢流口逐步的往下降所以我們持續的會去觀測跟監測現在的水位然後如果說土堤比較硬的時候我們就會開始看看有沒有其他的工程方法可以來解決類似導引道之類的或其他的方式"},{"start":30541.874,"end":30565.529,"text":"但是如果聽這樣講的話其實院長你知道現在其實馬太安溪下游有分布在鳳林鎮還有光復鄉還有萬榮鄉這樣整個至少有七個村如果像遇到如果災情突然發生了這樣要立即的預防性的整個撤離的話像8月14號解除警戒讓民眾返家但是到現在真的其實這樣也沒有解決問題啦"},{"start":30566.75,"end":30589.047,"text":"而且其實我們花蓮的鄉親都是非常的遊行的一旦這整個發生了潰堤的時候造成大規模的土石流會衝擊到下游的鄉鎮造成嚴重的人命還有財產上面的損失這樣的話其實我看這個監測狀況如何還有有關的進度和解決方式剛才這樣的回答我覺得還是沒有解決這樣整個的問題而且還是"},{"start":30592.069,"end":30615.347,"text":"滿危險的我是希望說不要把我們花蓮看作次等的公民因為我們的居住也是安全的這是人跟大自然的一個作戰那剛剛部長說了我們現在強力監測等到它上面這個地形能夠有所改善我們能夠嘗試其他方式的時候我們可以不排除嘗試其他的方式各種方式來讓它不具備危險"},{"start":30616.768,"end":30639.062,"text":"縱然有一天下大雨很大的好雨又來它有急迫性的危險的時候我們會提前的希望下面的居民能夠撤離疏散這個也是必要做的那我們盡量在它可以處理的時候我們把它上游這個地形完整的時候能夠讓它有一個處理的方式這個我們是持續在關心當中從大雨來之後都是這樣子的"},{"start":30639.721,"end":30648.027,"text":"那有沒有評估過說必須要強制遷村才安全呢還是說未來有沒有預定說要怎麼安置還是有遷村的整個計畫呢"},{"start":30649.675,"end":30679.081,"text":"我先跟委員報告就是除了在霸頂的監測我剛才說的等土堤比較硬機械可以上去的時候我們會嘗試去做一些工程方面的作為然後現在可以做的我們在下游的地區也會讓相關的這些河道能夠類似疏進的方式讓它未來能夠成長更多的水量而不會影響到附近的這些村莊現在是目前可以做的我再次強調你有沒有想過如果一瞬間突然下了很大的大雨呢"},{"start":30679.434,"end":30693.35,"text":"不會 因為它的壩底它不是一般的壩它的壩底有1.7公里所以它會溢流但是它不會瞬間潰堤這個是一個非常重要的所以我們會隨時監控的理由就在這裡"},{"start":30695.197,"end":30713.653,"text":"希望可以快點找出整個解決的方式讓他們的居住都能夠非常安全我們也成立跨部會的部分這次這樣我們真的是非常擔憂的我們甚至請國防部在開會的時候也提供他們很多工兵方面的一個具體的經驗跟他後續可能會協助的我們都有在做這方面的事情"},{"start":30715.151,"end":30730.348,"text":"那我再次強調說這次行政院其實編列了幫助災民的災後重建的特別這個整個預算其實都是我們是很支持但是身為立委當然我們要監督政府的整個預算的責任當然最擔心的就是"},{"start":30730.788,"end":30754.482,"text":"就是怕說這些特別預算會不會變成執政黨的趁機打劫的軌跡這樣因為我們不太希望說政府能帶頭當國家級的詐騙集團如果是說趁機藉由這個風災的整個特別預算將原本要補助台電被刪減的千億的整個預算拐個彎或者過個水假救災之民然後將原本就不屬於這個風災災後的重建"},{"start":30757.003,"end":30779.351,"text":"計劃的這個整個混入到整個特別預算中補回來所以當然也不希望政府想說利用這一次的救災的整個預算完全的政治考量企圖可能或許會騙取一些補助還是給特定的候選人的選區綁裝甚至圖立特定的光電業者的損失和清理風災受損的光電板的"},{"start":30779.891,"end":30800.527,"text":"處理整個費用我只想說先請教院長風災受損光電板的處理費用這個是政府買單嗎還是業者自行負責還有這些廢棄的光電板未來會放在哪裡還有如何處理還有造成會不會造成農業上面環境的污染這樣整個處理的時間是大約是多久"},{"start":30801.877,"end":30821.186,"text":"委員你這樣子一個沒有對象沒有標的一個假設實在無助於整個救災光電板那是屬於業者的財產他們要自己處理不處理我們是加重處罰請部長來說明對 包委員那個光電板它目前現在一個在回收當中它的回收到最後的末端的回收大概92%到99%"},{"start":30823.107,"end":30835.865,"text":"所以全部回收掉並不是說丟到農地去那個農地是他們借用的我們有告訴他你不能現場破碎所以已經重罰了所以他目前的那家業者已經被我們罰了九百萬他們的計畫書他們預計他們剛剛給我們的是九月五號前"},{"start":30838.749,"end":30855.547,"text":"他們承諾會清完但是它黃流很多次了所以我們會持續的給它壓力我們也希望未來像這個光電的因為這次屬於很特殊的一個極端的風災我們也希望未來能夠進行所有大型光電板的場域的總體檢這個也是我們努力的方向"},{"start":30856.007,"end":30871.316,"text":"所以到現在就是政府沒有買單只是說未來政府會不會買單絕對不會我跟委員保證跟全國人民保證這個政府絕對不會買單而且這個是他自己的財產他自己的付錢他的光臉板是他自己出的所以他基本上最後的處理他也要自己去買單謝謝"},{"start":30874.448,"end":30898.738,"text":"那再請問院長有關過去的治水和防災的預算上面的編列的問題因應全球的氣候的異常風災雨災受災的情況程度其實都是比以前是更強烈的所以平常的公務預算還有前瞻建設的特別預算中政府就有編了防災和救災的預算然後過去就是光是為了加速執行易淹水的地區過去就編列了有"},{"start":30899.218,"end":30928.718,"text":"易淹水地區的水患治理計畫8年有1160億的預算還有流域綜合治理特別預算編列了6年有660億的防災治水的計畫那農業部從98年起為了分期推動整體性的計畫所以光是一個農業部這16年來就已經累積投入了將近408億的預算這還沒有包含其他部會的編列的公務預算"},{"start":30929.358,"end":30949.081,"text":"然後經濟部水利署為了辦理水災智慧防災的計畫是109年到113年也編列了總預算高達30億的預算那還有近年來政府當然也編列了推動智慧防災相關計畫大約這樣也超過了百億"},{"start":30950.242,"end":30975.423,"text":"那為什麼每次執政的團隊都是要等到災難發生之後我們會臨時編了這一個特別的預算去亡羊補牢呢因為剛剛本席有舉例那些預算這些預算的話當初編列這些的時候難道都是去打水漂了嗎還是因為是治水無效呢這是否證明了行政院平常防災計劃能力的不足還是趁火打劫國庫呢那院長可不可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":30977.312,"end":30991.725,"text":"等一下請部長說我說委員還是有地方淹水還是有很多地方淹水但是您如果到各地去看看有更多的地方淹水的情況比過去少很多退水的時間比過去快很多這都是事實"},{"start":30992.385,"end":31018.207,"text":"不能完全抹煞過去一二十年來所有治水工程的所有人員的努力我們編列的預算有產生它的效果那現在我們看到是源頭末端抽水機等等還有一些問題要處理明年開始我們針對縣市管核酸要加強整治這個是我們一步一步的來做我不敢保證沒有淹水但是我說的就是要最小淹水面積最快退水時間最高安全標準"},{"start":31018.607,"end":31033.828,"text":"那請部長來說我跟委員補充說明一下如果說我們看那個天然災害的部分從十年前到現在現在天然災害有個非常大的特點就是它的極端天候裡面的急降雨所謂急降雨就是短時間所下的雨量"},{"start":31034.889,"end":31063.649,"text":"這個鋁量往往會超過當地的這些相關的排水的相關的承載量所以每一年以農業部來講每一年我們大概編了120億是在做這些治山防洪的相關的工作這個工作做的不是說沒有用因為台灣的很多這種所謂土石流潛勢區跟大規模崩塌區我們都有在監控監控的過程中有時候當它攤方的時候我們會及時的去處理"},{"start":31064.57,"end":31065.915,"text":"那這個部分都是用這樣的一個經費來處理"},{"start":31067.525,"end":31095.339,"text":"最主要我就是說那麼多年來都是有在治水然後也花了很多的預算的經費像我們來看一下在特別針對當初編列的前瞻基礎預算裡面的執行的情況像過去蔡英文執政時期編列前瞻基礎的預算的話總計有8400億其中治水工程有關的就有2000多億而且針對防洪剛才還有講的整治河川還有治洪池這些項目"},{"start":31095.839,"end":31118.44,"text":"其實南部都有提出水患的整個改善計畫有五個縣市提出來的工程就有高達1416億元了那我們地方政府預算這樣分配的情況來說明前三名竟然就是這次風災淹水最嚴重的三個縣市分別就是嘉義還有台南還有高雄"},{"start":31118.94,"end":31133.532,"text":"那院長這樣是不是很諷刺因為這三個地方政府拿了中央最多的補助的經費然後一個颱風來就完全整個破功了而且監察院7月公佈調查中也指出台南市政府109年到111年"},{"start":31136.094,"end":31154.509,"text":"獲得中央補助雨水下水道的輕於工程款好像有遭到非法的挪用沒有專款專用這樣那院長請問一下行政院說有沒有好好的去了解這件事情還有這項特別預算是不是都會被地方政府挪用甚至拿去不當的使用呢"},{"start":31155.289,"end":31171.984,"text":"這是一個百年來難見的風災但那是颱風從台灣的南部台灣海峽直上從嘉義布袋入口這是百年來難見的颱風如果你有到地方去你有在現場看到下雨的情形那雨水用倒的你就會知道"},{"start":31172.644,"end":31193.445,"text":"這不是任何的防洪工程在當初所設計施工但是我們那麼多年的治水上面的預算這些錢等於沒有用嘛我只能說如果沒有那些預算那可能大家的痛苦會更痛苦那我們現在希望把那些當基礎我們往上堆疊把該做的事情把它徹底的完成但是就算完成"},{"start":31194.346,"end":31220.954,"text":"也沒有任何人保證台灣是一個永遠不會淹水的地方因為極端氣候就是如此讓我們體諒所有的救災人員的辛苦我們更感受災民的辛苦政府該做的必須要做給多一點的鼓勵比用這樣的方式打擊這些士氣要好很多我真的懇請委員不要用這種方式認為過去做的都沒有效這是非常非常不適當的一個比喻我可以請經濟部來講講水利署的股東"},{"start":31222.291,"end":31239.885,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們過去的治水其實跟地方 地方跟中央是要一起把這個地方管的核酸跟中央管的核酸一起把它從整個系統性的治水的觀點來看尤其現在整個極端氣候的環境"},{"start":31265.507,"end":31275.856,"text":"好 謝謝林益君委員的質詢謝謝左院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請王育民委員質詢何新淳委員請準備"},{"start":31283.045,"end":31299.083,"text":"謝謝主席我們是有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢王委員好"},{"start":31299.71,"end":31319.132,"text":"院長好 院長剛剛你的報告裡面提到說你要替災民謝謝立法院所以我想在整個重建過程當中災民應該是最先被關照跟幫助的對象但是我們攤開來看這次的整個特別預算的編列"},{"start":31320.153,"end":31335.527,"text":"立法院多給了行政院從560億變成600億就是希望可以給災民更多的照顧但是我們攤開來看現在對於這些弱勢戶重建家園的預算總共只佔了21億"},{"start":31338.629,"end":31363.506,"text":"這21億其實佔了整體預算只有3.5%你認為這樣子真的有照顧到災民了嗎在目前為止其實本席看到的是之前在朝野協商我也多次提醒現在行政院願意幫忙去修復這個屋頂整個毀壞的是願意幫助中低收入戶"},{"start":31364.787,"end":31385.438,"text":"那在這樣的情況底下 事實上我來自嘉義 嘉義是我的故鄉嘉義縣老年人口非常的多然後我親自去看有很多的這些老宅裡面住的都是超過65歲 有的是70、80歲的老人"},{"start":31386.098,"end":31404.384,"text":"它不見得有中低收入戶的資格但那個是它僅存安身立命的房子它破了它漏水它屋頂飛走了但是它並不在這一次你們全額補助的範圍真的是非常的辛苦那朝野協商其實我也提出來過"},{"start":31406.205,"end":31429.683,"text":"但是你們並沒有採那就是進一步再去更擴大補助我想問為什麼因為以全部的預算來看的話事實上這個是重中之重所有包括全國人民我相信他們看到那個畫面他們想要幫助的就是這一些每一個受災戶的災民是優先最想幫助的對象結果在你們的整體預算裡面它只佔了3.5%"},{"start":31431.904,"end":31454.764,"text":"為什麼是這樣的一個編列若市戶本來就相對一般戶就比較少一般申請了三四萬戶那若市戶大概一千戶以內所以他本來就比較少所有的若市戶不管拆或修繕全部由政府負擔這個部分我沒有問題有擴大就低收跟中低收之外"},{"start":31457.085,"end":31482.19,"text":"特殊禁域還有脆弱家庭經社工評估有劣測這樣有多少呢以台南來講是大概500左右所以你看看它在你整體的比例還是很低啊我要講的是像嘉義縣它是全國老人第一比例的地方我當時在超級協商有建議像這種家裡面住的都是老人"},{"start":31483.01,"end":31507.581,"text":"照道理政府也應該要提供幫忙但是你們現在我只能說你們現在還是採取一個不是從寬的標準是從嚴的標準很限縮的標準但是我只能講我們現在台灣對於中低收入戶的認定是非常嚴格的我們真的可以納入法定貧窮人口數只有2.5%我們跟其他國家比較起來跟鄰近的日韓他們大概有10%我們只有2.5%"},{"start":31509.542,"end":31535.081,"text":"所以你若完全採取中低收入戶的標準我只能告訴院長跟這個政委有很多他是邊緣的競品他實際的狀況經濟狀況就是不好完全被你們排除你的公懷戶不是從經濟的標準那是特殊境遇可能有一些他的需求但是跟這個競品還是不一樣競品跟獨居老人就收入比較少獨居老人"},{"start":31536.103,"end":31541.223,"text":"這幾類的以貪人來講那似乎他會全額去補助修繕那嘉義縣呢"},{"start":31541.738,"end":31569.387,"text":"那嘉義縣當然嘉義縣政府如果可以編列的話去修繕嘉義縣那麼窮他怎麼有辦法去編列如果你中央不提供補助他怎麼有辦法在這邊我要幫因為那一部分比例很少我們就講災損不是所有的弱勢戶就是說房屋破損的比方說嘉義縣大概申請的有五千嘛那其中弱勢是一定比例那通常這個都已經包含在內不會說單獨把它排除在外"},{"start":31570.213,"end":31585.279,"text":"我知道但是你補助的不夠嘛所謂的從寬的原則你知道修一個屋頂要多少嗎30萬起跳吧那你現在最高的補助額度到多少你知道嗎只有10萬如果給政府來修算是完全免費"},{"start":31585.819,"end":31611.186,"text":"你政府修繕範圍就只有中低收入啊包括還有特殊經濟一般民眾你有受理嗎一般民眾是要媒介一般民眾你只是媒合啊你沒有補助嘛有補助就是復原十萬跟五萬啊看他的房屋破損程度所以只有十萬嘛我現在要告訴兩位就是以你們現在劃定的這樣一個標準跟補助的範圍對於災民來講是不夠的"},{"start":31614.247,"end":31635.728,"text":"所謂你們的從寬沒有從寬今天立法院給你們這麼多的預算我覺得要分輕重緩急優先順序我個人認為不是所有你們應該還要再擴大我剛才提醒你了中低收入戶我們的標準是非常的嚴格的那所以你今天我看到你的預備金還有30億"},{"start":31638.07,"end":31664.919,"text":"在這個預備金裡面你應該同時告訴這次最慘的就是嘉義縣跟台南市所以你應該讓兩個地方政府給他們一定的金額讓他們去看實際的狀況有需求的民眾還補不夠的應該要給他們這樣的彈性你這樣才是真正照顧到災民如果你今天沒有這樣子做我覺得就是為德不足我們今天所有立法院的好意還提高了金額但是在災民的眼中在他們身上"},{"start":31665.379,"end":31687.677,"text":"其實拿到的補助是不夠的我希望這個部分你們是不是有這個空間可以再去檢討因為你還有預備金 院長可以嗎這就是保持這個整個運用的彈性是 自災地區如果當我們的整個的補助的方法還沒有辦法完全涵蓋或是有更特殊的狀況的時候這個我們就充分運用但是我們放心絕對沒有地域之分"},{"start":31688.217,"end":31706.59,"text":"沒有縣市之分我們一定是依照自災情形需要來我希望就真正受災的災民他可以得到充分的協助這個才是我們立法院這麼快速的通過條例而且提高金額最大的用意第二個重塑的原則我現在看到事實上在核發的建樹受理的建樹"},{"start":31707.591,"end":31725.276,"text":"它的這個落差還蠻大的這當中特別是像嘉義縣它現在受理的件數有9000件核發只有500多件這個是統計到8月20號為止我想問兩位的是現在最大的困難是什麼這麼的緩慢現在已經過了50天了"},{"start":31727.575,"end":31746.603,"text":"報告委員行政院的20億加一市1億加一縣8億台南市10億在7月25號錢都已經撥下去了到現在已經一個月了那加一縣的這個部分是受災的各鄉鎮公所在辦理行政院全在一個月前都已經撥到地方政府了"},{"start":31747.264,"end":31763.187,"text":"這個不是中央政府在審查我知道那現在速度緩慢的原因是什麼我覺得中央應該要去督導或協助地方怎麼樣加快這個速度要問你們的好意你們說你撥下去但是在你手上覺得我沒有啊所以台南市政府他有派"},{"start":31764.148,"end":31778.239,"text":"檢任級的官員以及其他的同仁進駐到各區公所那我們也同樣要求嘉義縣政府他必須派相關人員進駐到各鄉鎮公所但是呢"},{"start":31780.18,"end":31805.309,"text":"嘉峪縣的各鄉鎮公所是民選的首長台南市的區公所是市長派的區長所以稍微有不同所以我們會去再跟那你們就要加強去輔導可以嗎我們再跟鄉鎮公所再討論因為這樣的一個效率恐怕我們的所有的好意災民都感受不到因為都沒有拿到這裡面還有一個原因就是說有時候報的這個面積很難認定所以承辦人員會特別謹慎"},{"start":31806.309,"end":31821.291,"text":"那麼他會受理之後一件一件去看所以這個都是重塑的原則就沒有落實嗎因為你們在立法院一直說我們要重寬重塑重優但是看起來這個重塑的原則並沒有落實我希望你們可以好好去督促"},{"start":31821.872,"end":31846.926,"text":"另外一個 現在還有漏網之魚我給你看一個個案 這個是在嘉義縣這個業者他是專門在收購這個稻殼他重新再把它去製作之後 碳化這些稻殼然後他有一部分還提供給中鋼做煉鋼使用但他在這次的風災裡面 大家看這些畫面他那些稻殼原物料全部泡水"},{"start":31848.087,"end":31865.129,"text":"倉庫一片狼藉屋頂也破損損失現在出估超過三千萬那他收購的這些道殼占全國的百分之二十蠻大間的一個工廠但是到目前為止他跟我陳情中央或地方沒有一個人"},{"start":31866.33,"end":31884.578,"text":"他發生這麼大的事情沒有一個人去關心然後呢要跟誰申請補助我初步問了農業部農糧署他後來說不是他的他推給經濟部我現在就要問像這樣子的一個企業受災的企業還有多少然後因為他從事的是這一些"},{"start":31885.818,"end":31903.613,"text":"到可的這個收購本來以為是農業部結果農業部說不是他跟他無關那現在是經濟部嗎那像這一類的還沒有完全得到任何補助在你這一次的整個條例當中到底哪一個部會管然後可不可以接受補助可以補助到多少那這些工廠怎麼辦損失慘重怎麼辦"},{"start":31912.53,"end":31940.512,"text":"你們現在補助辦法是什麼可以補助多少現在經濟部也沒有去關心所以他們現在已經過了50天了經濟部對企業應該有一些協助經濟部提供什麼協助跟委員報告我們針對這個部分我們有編列一筆錢大概給企業補助20萬另外還有一個貸款的利息補貼的部分我想這個不足的部分我想企業可以做貸款來"},{"start":31941.332,"end":31957.447,"text":"像這樣的企業經濟部會受理在這次的條例裡面可以得到補助所以它是漏網之魚那還有沒有其他的漏網之魚你們現在透過什麼樣的管道去宣傳讓地方政府或讓這些受災的企業知道他們可以來申請經濟部有將這個機器涵蓋在裡面"},{"start":31960.53,"end":31978.481,"text":"20萬還有利息的補貼都有在但他們不知道所以你們的這個宣傳看起來也是很有問題我希望這個個案待會我們就轉給你們好好的去跟廠商了解他說到目前為止都沒有人在關心他像孤兒一樣我覺得這個部分我們不應該有600億的預售"},{"start":31979.561,"end":32004.456,"text":"還有漏網之魚就是沒有被幫助到接下來我要問的是在這次的風災當中我們也看到地方裡面有些鄉鎮公所它的避難收容處所非常非常的完全沒有辦法提供避難我們看到是役主鄉這次役主也是被重創的地方請院長看這個畫面它是一個大禮堂它叫中正堂"},{"start":32006.677,"end":32019.004,"text":"當時役主因為受災非常的嚴重有很多的宗教團體很熱心去進行了公益役主的這樣的一個活動他就在一個大禹清盆的一個大禮堂裡面"},{"start":32020.083,"end":32036.482,"text":"非常簡陋 非常克難的在煮熱時要提供給災民吃這個看了讓人家覺得非常的心酸這個是我們現在中華民國我們這麼經濟繁榮的今天結果在嘉義縣的一個異族鄉它連一個避難處所長這個樣子"},{"start":32038.638,"end":32056.1,"text":"然後新盆大雨的時候 裡面也在下大雨這樣我們怎麼去提高我們的防災韌性而這件事情呢 這個易竹鄉鄉長他有跟內政部部來求助 來懲刑但是現在都沒有下文"},{"start":32056.909,"end":32074.236,"text":"沒有具體告訴他可不可以在這一次的條例裡面我們再重建一個真的讓將來有下一次的這個風災或是災難的時候讓我們的災民可以安心避難的據所沒有答案 沒有下文"},{"start":32075.161,"end":32100.223,"text":"這個就是我們現在的災後重建公司這個是公共設施有包含在這次的特別條例裡面那如果他跟工程會提出我們會來審議所以到底要跟內政部提出還是要跟如果在特別預算裡面執行機關是內政部但最後審核主管機關是工程會所以他是跟內政部陳情內政部有沒有轉給這個工程會因為特別條例才成立嘛特別預算今天還在審議他已經陳情很久了"},{"start":32101.814,"end":32125.501,"text":"這筆預算今天還在審我知道啊 但是大家都知道特別條例之前大家都已經在審啦都知道要定啦我們會請工程會直接跟議主相問那你們也下去看啊 那一個議主相 鄉長就是跟中央官員的陳情然後都沒有下文 沒有回應我覺得這個不是做事情的態度跟方法這個內政部有他那個鄉長有跟內政部反應 部長你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":32126.441,"end":32136.91,"text":"我們了解這個部分但是因為預算還沒有辦法下來所以沒有辦法跟公共工程委會一起來合作但是如果是公共設施的話當然站在我們的立場一定要來協助"},{"start":32137.355,"end":32165.495,"text":"那我就希望你們給異族鄉鄉長一個正式的回覆喔因為這一個他也當面跟我澄清過我覺得如果中央政府沒有去受理沒有去正視這真的有點太離譜了因為我們要保證我們每一個人民居住在台灣這片土地下一回遇到災難的時候他都有一個安心的避難的住所那個那麼破舊的一個地方完全是不合時宜喔所以今天政委在這邊是不是可以承諾可以重建一個"},{"start":32166.656,"end":32194.11,"text":"真的是可以遮風避雨安全穩固的地方給藝竹鄉的鄉民可以嗎我們就看他的受損的狀況他是整個真的很破舊了他會特別來審議再來協助好 那我希望你們就是要正式受理我想今天這個包括國民黨我們很快的提出特別條例而且很快的召開朝野協商院長也很快的就主持朝野協商大家只有一個共識我們要給這些受災的災民"},{"start":32194.79,"end":32204.057,"text":"就是真正的幫助我們要幫助他站起來我們要強化他的防災韌性可以抵擋下一次的風雨我希望這件事情已經給你們抽分"},{"start":32223.032,"end":32243.205,"text":"好 接下來我們請何欣淳委員請質詢許巧欣委員請準備好 謝謝院長那我們請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢等一下再請相關部會的首長請卓院長何委員好"},{"start":32251.172,"end":32274.463,"text":"院長辛苦了 還是加油我相信不分草野大家都希望台灣更好所以今天我們面對這個特別預算我們希望能夠第一個盡快通過第二個我們現在錢花在刀口上花在真正能夠讓人民有感的地方幫助更多的受災的民眾我想7月的 雖然今天"},{"start":32276.404,"end":32299.222,"text":"特別預算裡面大家談的幾乎都是南部地區但是我跟院長報告7月的相關的風災雨災在台中也是一個超級大好雨而且是創下70年來同期最多的雨量我想極端氣候大家都談很多但是如何能夠強化災防的韌性"},{"start":32299.482,"end":32319.115,"text":"以及讓我們所有的人民能夠安居樂業我想這個是我們政府責無旁貸大家要一起努力的那我在第一頁有一個步風五福社區我為什麼會特別請院長感受一下這個暗室這麼大 落到陰水所以人都睡不著 都要起來順大家都會歡樂"},{"start":32325.659,"end":32342.914,"text":"這個其實就是大多數遇到天災風災雨災大部分受災戶受災的人民他的第一時間的心情我想絕對是不美麗而且絕對是很脆弱絕對需要我們政府跟所有相關的單位能夠"},{"start":32343.735,"end":32370.791,"text":"跟他們同理站在第一線上能夠協助他們而且要快這也就是為什麼我們今天這個特別預算我剛剛一開始說我們希望能夠快速通過那其實不是只有霧峰五福在那7月底從28 29 30 31大台中大大小小的災情很多那淹水的情況也很多我另外在有一面有一個照片是在烏日的環河路"},{"start":32371.331,"end":32397.372,"text":"那個淹水這不僅僅是人行走困難那裡也是一個交通要道連汽車 機車都會掉車淹水的問題到底在哪裡其實我覺得第一個我要先謝謝院長因為院長在第一時間有說宣布只要是有淹水縣市政府認定超過50公分除了縣市政府既有的一個救助金之外我們行政院加碼兩萬對不對 院長"},{"start":32400.471,"end":32416.098,"text":"所以我在第一時間因為當時候院長說的這個加碼是針對南部縣市我怕院長忘了台中的淹水情況也很嚴重所以我第一時間也趕快提醒我們行政院那也謝謝院長跟我們經濟部"},{"start":32417.378,"end":32446.022,"text":"在第一時間就把台中只要有淹水的情形經過市政府的認定我們行政院也同樣加碼 對不對 院長是的我希望陳報上來的我們要趕快核定因為欠災民的錢不要拖啦 要趕啦 這第一個陳報的過程也請地方政府能夠把數據出來我們才能夠核算應該是這樣講 院長我們第一個要公開透明我們的效率"},{"start":32447.964,"end":32474.304,"text":"地方政府到底是多久的時間匯集資料多久的時間送到我們中央我們在同步的縣市政府在做補助的時候我們收到他呈報上來的資料我們如何在最快的速度能夠把加碼的救助金發放出去我覺得這是人民對政府的信任的第一步所以這個效率很重要接著我認為"},{"start":32475.905,"end":32502.503,"text":"除了給現金給救助金之外最重要的就是要解決問題嘛對不對所以我以物風武服為例我剛剛的第一張照片他半夜水淹上來了之後結果事後我們去調查原因他是我們的農水設施做得不夠好因為水閘門關不起來"},{"start":32506.325,"end":32518.565,"text":"他同時有灌溉溝渠那旁邊就是增淘就是住宅區結果因為旁邊的灌溉溝渠的水閘門現在是老舊的手動式的水閘門"},{"start":32520.367,"end":32544.513,"text":"因為老舊卡住關不起來所以造成整個增淘陰水我覺得這個就是事後檢討我們發現的問題就是要解決問題所以我當下在會館的時候我第一個要求要檢討現行的SOP什麼SOP原來我們農業部的農水署要求各水利單位"},{"start":32545.073,"end":32560.255,"text":"只有在地方政府宣布開設這個一級二級的災防應變中心之後他們才會跟著啟動SOP來應變結果那一天淹大水的時候台中市政府還沒有宣布"},{"start":32563.078,"end":32585.095,"text":"這個災變中心而且當時候台中市長人在國外沒人主持大局所以一拖就拖過了所以沒有人發現這個問題結果我們農水署的相關同仁們就被動的等著地方政府來宣布有沒有成立應變中心就錯過了黃金時間所以第一個我要求要檢討現行的SOP"},{"start":32586.676,"end":32608.716,"text":"不一定要等只要是發生問題了我覺得就應該要及時的因應所以院長是你同意吧部長也在這裡請農水署還有水利署以後這個事情我們提早如何能夠是 這個農水署跟水利單位也有關係我跟委員報告一下我們現在在修正的還有在調整的作為就是"},{"start":32609.676,"end":32636.722,"text":"在颱風任何的可能的雨害來之前就要巡一次至少那個關的部分是沒有問題的然後後續什麼時候關才會搭配著後面的這些災防的這些層級但是一定會有人他的最主要問題是沒有辦法關沒有辦法關開所以要事前的去巡視他是不是正常這才是重點所以這個部分我已經要求農水組這邊包括他們的水利小組都要再去查一次"},{"start":32637.522,"end":32666.176,"text":"我會建議院長也在這裡我們今天要通過特別預算應該要好好的盤點因為我們現在有很多的農水利設施是比較老舊的相對的我們現在數位科技化的現在我們可以升級就要利用我們現在的特別預算好好盤點該升級就要升級該增設抽水設施就應該增設抽水設施這也就是部長你剛剛講的我們當然在事前要先去巡查"},{"start":32666.716,"end":32694.512,"text":"那巡查之後盤點了之後我們該改善就要改善該有特別預算來支應我希望大家要趕快的事先的提出我相信院長一定會支持的嘛比如說我們現在都說智慧水閘門還有遠端的監控系統如果在這個淹水地區的一個關鍵的這個區域的話我們是不是可以來盤點跟檢討來做這個重建復建跟改進院長這不難吧"},{"start":32696.053,"end":32713.726,"text":"是 我們每次到應變中心都要求抽水機要夠 抽水站要能用人車物料要充足那這一個預算裡面我們也編列了大型移動性的抽水機有一億元另外有防水板的相關經費都會落實在這一次預算當中的結構裡面"},{"start":32714.426,"end":32743.644,"text":"所以我希望部長那院長剛剛有指示我覺得這個是好事也是應該要做的事對人民生活影響很重要的事那我覺得應該要做接著除了淹水的地區我們要發救助金我們要解決問題我們台中有大片的山坡地山坡地的水保是最重要的我在第一時間跑了霧峰北屯還有太平"},{"start":32744.745,"end":32745.231,"text":"你會看到"},{"start":32747.881,"end":32775.482,"text":"山邊的農民的土石流就進了他的房子然後呢 整個道路是中斷的完全不能通行 整個都東山 朝山 路回去我們在那幾天 台中的大好雨包括霧峰 新社 潭子 豐原 東勢 北屯 太平等地區土石災害 農路攤方目前在所謂的75件是地方政府報上來的我相信不止"},{"start":32776.002,"end":32802.979,"text":"那我也希望在這一次的特別預算裡面我們行政院不管是經濟部跟農業部能夠大力的支持協助地方政府來重建不管是農路也好水土保持工程也好或者是相關的道路橋樑這個院長這本來就是我們應該做的對不對是所以我們需要特別預算接著我來給你看一個數字院長"},{"start":32804.175,"end":32818.555,"text":"台中是一個六都的都會區大家會想說怎麼農產的災損我們是最多其實台中的物產風老農業地區也很多我們的農作物相對的也非常多元這個"},{"start":32821.419,"end":32836.417,"text":"計算表格是我們的行政單位給我的就是07287月底的那幾天的豪雨造成了農業的災損損失的金額統計表我看一下第一名叫屏東縣第二名就叫台中市"},{"start":32838.374,"end":32861.074,"text":"所以我也希望扶植農民讓農產業能夠復甦摘損能夠得到政府的協助補助讓我們的農民生活可以早日恢復正常而且他才有能力能量在下一次面對下一個年頭的農作或者是下一次的災害我相信災害"},{"start":32862.635,"end":32890.098,"text":"希望在政府的協助之下不要再多了農民是看天吃飯但是我們希望老天爺能夠天佑台灣希望我們的政府要做的是什麼在這樣的極端氣候之下災防韌性還有相關的災防建設我們能夠做得到位跟農民一起來抵抗垮梯吃飯這事宜院長這是我們要跟農民站在一起的好不好"},{"start":32890.698,"end":32917.265,"text":"所以在這個六度裡面台中的農產損失是超過一億也許你會說超過一億對一個直轄市來說看起來不多但是像我剛剛講從淹水到水土保持到農路到農民的災損我想方方面面還有很多其實不只這一億其實不只是這些錢更多的是需要我們政府長期的支持院長對不對"},{"start":32918.789,"end":32936.632,"text":"我們就是不管是從產業從農業這個各方面我們除了原來的計畫之外不夠的部分我們就是用這樣的方式來把它補充那未來包括治水我們還有更多的四年的計畫要做長期支持對政府來講我們就是把政策延續下去"},{"start":32938.083,"end":32953.671,"text":"對不起 院長你剛剛有回答其他委員因為有其他委員在指引過去我們的治水計畫還有治水預算花了那麼多好像沒什麼成效可是院長事實上我們從長遠的角度來看的話跟專業的角度來看的話是有效的"},{"start":32954.151,"end":32977.777,"text":"是有效的只是我們的極端氣候真的變化的太超乎我們人類所及應該是這樣子講那它變化的速度太快所以造成我們這個治水的一個功效好像讓人覺得打了折扣可是以我在我的選區台中市來看台中市在過去這幾年我們中央支持之下"},{"start":32978.277,"end":32992.71,"text":"整治了很多的河川還有下水道系統我也爭取在行政院的支持之下也建置了很多所以相對的我們過去易淹水的地區像剛剛院長回答的面積越來越縮小"},{"start":32993.351,"end":33018.442,"text":"那退水的這個時間越來越縮短但是我們仍然希望好還要更好所以剛剛院長講到一句話長期的預算的支持治水不管是在農業或者經濟部或者是內政部相關各部會只要是對地方治水有功效的我們都應該要全力的來支持所以我在最後的結語"},{"start":33019.923,"end":33023.458,"text":"會再問一下 我們這個特別預算我要問一下 這個院長"},{"start":33025.026,"end":33051.505,"text":"因為在第二條裡面有講這個台中市雖然有在我們的這個立法說明裡面是一個災區但是範圍是由行政院公告那我剛剛聽到我們這一次特別預算的組織單位叫做公共工程委員會所以呢我們的這個災區的一個範圍公告是行政院公共工程委員會來勘查之後來認定公告院長對不對那請問依照實際的自災情形"},{"start":33055.369,"end":33069.085,"text":"請問我們這個特別預算通過之後何時公告很快就會依照實際自災情形來公告但大部分的區域都很清楚了如果還有一些不是整個"},{"start":33070.455,"end":33084.853,"text":"整個直轄市可能某些區域裡面特別嚴重事態情形工程會就處理這次在特別條例的協調當中就是院長在組織協調當中有附帶決議已經包括台中了"},{"start":33085.934,"end":33101.96,"text":"台中全市各縣市政府他必須有一個申報我們昨天才開會討論關於災區的審查的標準所以將來會設到工程會然後會召開會議"},{"start":33104.301,"end":33126.901,"text":"所以主委因為你剛剛講的這些要召開會議然後審查標準要制定那這些都需要時間那我只希望說能夠要快要有效率因為我想特別預算草野都支持我們應該會最快的速度來通過因為那個標準並沒有設定的很嚴格沒有設定的很嚴格但是還是要你們審認對不對"},{"start":33129.063,"end":33155.163,"text":"那審任跟公告我希望能夠用最快的時間最有效率的方式趕快好不好主委 這個院長也有答應那我剛剛也跟院長提到有很多的事情是要長期的我們今天特別預算通過了雖然是針對的這些風災雨災這個天災但是我知道現在我們政府手上四大預算案就是要顧民生 要拚經濟所以拜託院長我們一起加油"},{"start":33157.042,"end":33181.497,"text":"好謝謝何新淳委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝好報告委員會今天我們登記最後一位發言的委員11號徐巧欣委員請質詢謝謝院長我們有請卓院長還有這個環境部長麻煩再請卓院長環境部備詢"},{"start":33197.239,"end":33216.973,"text":"許多人好在丹納斯颱風之後許多人相當關心也很擔心就是關於廢棄的光電板網路上最多人在傳的就是光電板流出所謂的洪水的問題當然彭部長的說法我已經聽過了"},{"start":33218.234,"end":33232.305,"text":"但是呢按照法規來說這個光電板要在水泥地或者是不透水的地方來砌製那為什麼會放在這個台這個台這個農地台塘的農地那可以這樣子站製嗎"},{"start":33233.479,"end":33246.285,"text":"報告委員不行的所以他在我們發現了之後我們有要求他而且他這個就被我們罰了第二張200萬第二張 第一張多少錢第一張100 第二張200現在已經到300了"},{"start":33249.126,"end":33268.334,"text":"那請問這個紅色的水現在處理的狀況已經全部處置完成了嗎因為我後來8月16號我有到縣地去看我們其實在8月十幾號的時候我們同仁就有去現場採樣那個紅色的水它基本上沒有任何的重金屬也沒有任何的油"},{"start":33269.454,"end":33294.273,"text":"這個我清楚這個報導您都講過講過的我都會看我要問的是說到目前為止這些紅色的水已經處理完畢了嗎因為我剛剛沒有問說它裡面有沒有什麼樣的重金屬我談的是它本來就不應該在不透水的地方去做氣質你也說已經罰了三百萬了所以我的問題非常的清楚是請問這些紅水已經處置完畢了沒有"},{"start":33295.054,"end":33313.061,"text":"我到現場去看過已經那個光電板或是那個浮桶已經沒有在那個地方我問的是紅色的水還在不在啊都不在了 早就不在了那什麼時候環境部可以在這個地方拍一張照片讓給所有的民眾知道同樣一個地方紅色的水已經沒有了今天能夠做到嗎"},{"start":33314.301,"end":33331.631,"text":"其實我在現場我有拍我在旁邊的照片但是我覺得我去採訪我並不想要讓大家為什麼不想讓大家知道我們已經澄清了你知道你們今天在抓那個什麼AI小鳥的這個影片我並不反對因為我自己也有收到我看了之後我就說這個應該是AI的影片但是"},{"start":33332.071,"end":33360.658,"text":"就是因為你們在處理完看處理完畢之後並沒有跟大眾說非常清楚的說明就是比較先前的狀況後來的狀況以及你們中間裁罰了幾次所以民眾才會擔心所以我要問的是因為這個事情已經討論非常久了今天能不能做一個比較圖就是先前紅色水的狀況跟現在今天的情況兩者去做比較 能不能好 我請我同仁來調照片看看"},{"start":33361.558,"end":33380.811,"text":"我希望今天可以做完因為這真的很久了你看這個新聞是什麼時候8月7號現在8月底因為我也遭遇到這種錯誤訊息跟假消息到處散佈我們也很困擾所以我今天提醒你我是站在你的角度來替大家做這個說明因為我也不想再收到這些假的訊息了"},{"start":33381.351,"end":33408.407,"text":"所以如果你今天就能夠做出比較其實你們早就該做了你不是說你去看已經沒問題沒問題的那一天就要告知大眾我是繼續問有關光電板的處理情形從廢棄物因為丹納斯颱風的關係單月增積到2800噸你所說的是一個月能夠處理2900噸我請問丹納斯颱風到現在已經兩個多月了目前完成多少噸的清潤"},{"start":33409.668,"end":33431.27,"text":"目前大概接近八成已經剩下三成大概就是屬於那個新屋莊就原運那家公司他都放在岸邊剩一家公司對 剩下一家公司剩下一家公司所以70%已經完成去清運了大概將近快要到80%了他已經放在一個站置點而且符合規定的站置點我問一下我了解了我問一下目前"},{"start":33432.431,"end":33450.554,"text":"針對丹納斯颱風所造成的光電板之亂你們有沒有統計過總共開發多少金額開發幾間廠商我很好奇三間廠商總共一千萬只有三間廠商對那有沒有包含剛剛這個台塘的農地這個也有開發它是算在一起的"},{"start":33451.055,"end":33468.123,"text":"所以它算在一起的所以就是串三張那總共罰了多少錢那家廠商總共有三個池那有兩個池是被我們開始開罰那其中有兩家它有兩個池一個是罰到兩百萬另外一個是一百兩百三百總共加起來是那家廠商是九百萬"},{"start":33469.609,"end":33495.981,"text":"900萬 好我特別想要問一下你們清理跟回收光電板的計劃裡面在每年都有去編列相關的預算從111年到114年度我有一個表格可以給你看數字上面因為我們時間很有限我就不談了但我們上會期審查今年度的預算其實裡面只編了200萬當然我知道你會告訴我有編在其他的計劃當中可是我想要針對這200萬來詢問你"},{"start":33498.342,"end":33512.641,"text":"就是今年度的廢太陽光電模組的清除計畫是在什麼時候才決標的我們針對這兩百萬的部分你先不要跟我講其他的這兩百萬的部分是什麼時候決標的這個我不清楚因為這個是"},{"start":33513.962,"end":33534.429,"text":"我的數他們自己在標案我告訴你答案就是呢7月29號決標然後8月25號發的決標公告那這個公告呢是在7月15號的時候公告7月29號的時候開標而丹納斯颱風是7月5號早上的海警發布"},{"start":33535.909,"end":33550.903,"text":"所以我們看到這個標案這是你們自己環境部的相關的廢太陽光電板的回收資訊系統裡面寫什麼本年度委託清除廠商名單還在辦理當中請靜待相關的通知"},{"start":33551.403,"end":33574.454,"text":"所以在6月26號這個標案還在環境部的網站上我們去查的話他會告訴你說這個還在等待通知所以為什麼清理速度那麼慢不只是說當然廠商的怠慢可能是一個重點這個我不否認但是你的這整個太陽能的清除處理計畫到現在才公佈決標"},{"start":33575.895,"end":33590.94,"text":"然後呢在6月多的時候你可以看到我們這個訊息上面來講6月多已經有編列好預算的那也沒有也沒有告訴大家有哪些廠商名單在辦理所以這個部分我希望能夠調整跟改善"},{"start":33591.38,"end":33616.266,"text":"包委我報告一下因為他們這些廠商是3.5萬片他要去化是他們要跟那有四家的廠商其中兩家有營業他們要寄簽約自己去去化我們如果他一個編號有到期例如說20年我們可以跟能源署去申請這個經費我講的跟你講的東西不是完全一樣的所以你不要回答我一個跟我問你的問題沒有關係的好不好"},{"start":33617.046,"end":33633.315,"text":"你講別的我會很願意在會後跟你討論光電板的事情但是請你就回答我問你的問題就好了我不會聽不懂你在問什麼但是我另外想要問一下這個光電板的使用年限我們一般看是25到30年對吧"},{"start":33634.055,"end":33652.49,"text":"20到25年左右20到25年 那更短一些喔那我想要問現在整個台灣裝了幾片的光電板有這樣詳細的資料嗎我沒有特別統計大概但是我們是15GB左右大部分就好了就是大概的數字就好了我不用告訴我113不用"},{"start":33653.911,"end":33681.265,"text":"就大概來說有幾片大概是幾百萬片差不多200萬片因為我們光是在雲林台南張濱就有大概140萬片這個新聞都有報導的總體來說可能突破200萬片您剛剛說幾乎9乘9可以回收但是我看大部分的說法都是90%可以回收有10%它的回收難度非常的高請問部長是不是如此"},{"start":33681.545,"end":33690.45,"text":"是 因為它有一部分是塑膠的然後要去定義也就是說我們現在突破200萬片的規模在20年後它會產生200萬當然我就乘以10%的量體20萬的部分光電板它也變成是非常巨量的垃圾了"},{"start":33701.297,"end":33722.618,"text":"那先前那我要請問接下來的雖然那時候不是你們在執政可是我們現在要裝光碟板總是要把接下來整體的規劃去做一個環境的評估嘛那我想要問的是如果10%的是量體是沒有辦法去回收的那請問一下這20萬的不能回收的部分那未來你們又打算要怎麼處理嗎"},{"start":33723.519,"end":33739.992,"text":"基本上我剛才說有的業者是只能做到92%有的業者已經99%了而且國際的認證我就跟你講說我們大概就平均來講九成來說我們用一個大概率平均來講九成我也沒有虧待你我沒有說八成七成六成我們用九成來說實際上就會有10%的量體"},{"start":33743.795,"end":33766.34,"text":"那這個部分我想要知道的是我們裝了200萬片未來可能還會更多在20年以後它會一次性的產生大量的垃圾而且它是無法回收的狀態的時候請問我們現在是怎麼看待這些廢棄物的基本上它每一樣都可以回收只剩下不到10%那如果是10%的話目前我們發現那個是一個所謂的塑膠還有薄膜"},{"start":33766.84,"end":33787.685,"text":"他一樣是垃圾嘛我就只問你的問題一半我問你什麼你答什麼就好了嘛那就是這些垃圾到時候20年以後大幅度的發生了那要怎麼處理這個問題回答我這個問題就好基本上現在有越來越多家業者看到這樣的未來的商機他們也會願意去做這樣的工作所以未來的量能"},{"start":33789.065,"end":33808.377,"text":"你一樣啊因為你講的是說我們剛剛講說90%可以回收嘛我已經假定都可以回收了嘛那你有10%是沒有辦法回收的部分嘛那我沒有問你那九成啊我那九成我就suppose說你可以做到所以有一間廠商十間廠商一百間廠商都是一樣的啊我問的問題很清楚"},{"start":33808.717,"end":33830.275,"text":"就是那10%無法回收的部分那未來因為你裝200萬片那未來那10%無法回收的部分那請問20年以後大量的出現這樣的廢棄物我們政府現在的看法是什麼該如何處置基本上現在那個算是一種塑膠的薄膜它可以透過焚燒或是掩埋的方式別的處理所以你可能會用掩埋焚燒會不會產生化學氣"},{"start":33835.161,"end":33859.589,"text":"基本上現在我們的焚化爐管得非常嚴等於說焚燒的百分之十不能回收的東西它會不會有化學的就是說所有都可以回收那只剩下不到大概百分之十左右有百分之十怎麼會叫做所有呢有百分之十是沒有辦法回收的那它就不是所有都能夠回收嘛200萬片不是有20萬片不能回收"},{"start":33859.909,"end":33864.872,"text":"我完全沒有誤會我再講一次兩百萬片裡面會有90%是可以回收的但是在裡面有10%是沒有辦法回收的所以在這個部分我要問的是10%兩百萬裡面九成可以回收另外的10%那請問要如何處理"},{"start":33885.546,"end":33909.962,"text":"你要焚燒它還是要掩埋它不是 委員是每一片面板裡面有一個塑膠的膜那個認定我知道你剛剛講過了所以就塑膠而已我剛剛已經講過了總之我的結論是這樣子就是大家一直在繞圈圈也沒有辦法你們要想清楚這個目前沒有辦法回收的部分你要怎麼處理你是要掩埋還是要焚燒焚燒會不會額外產生一些氣體這都是環境部現在要去做規劃的"},{"start":33914.085,"end":33920.629,"text":"但是我这个议题就跟您讨论到这我们环境部长先暂停我们环境部长可以先请回谢谢"},{"start":33922.455,"end":33948.728,"text":"那我繼續請問卓院長每一次救災的時候我們都靠很多的這個軍人來救助對救災來說可以說是功不可沒的但是賴清德總統他到嘉義勘災的時候一開始卻說這個法律規定國軍不能進入民宅那當然後來他也修正了因為台灣事實查核中心也說並沒有明文禁止規定不能進到民宅只是需要符合程序地方人員有在場等等的要責任歸屬"},{"start":33949.608,"end":33969.39,"text":"但我想要問軍人救災這麼辛苦但是行政院對於三讀通過的軍人待遇修正案卻不願意依法編列讓辛苦救災的國軍士氣受到這麼大的影響那昨天我有聽您的質詢您提到說要送試卸可是同樣是送試卸才化法你們是先編列了"},{"start":33969.71,"end":33985.607,"text":"然後送事件可是國軍待遇條例你們是在一個沒有附議的過程當中沒有依法編列然後呢直接送事件就不編了那我想要問一下為什麼不是在大法官決議以前先依法辦理"},{"start":33986.701,"end":33997.856,"text":"第一個我們感謝國軍在歷次災損的時候災害來的時候都親臨現場幫助很多災民那麼我們對國軍的各項福利政府希望能夠循序漸進今年4月以後總統對於"},{"start":34002.242,"end":34016.934,"text":"我問的只有在於軍人待遇條例你們沒有依法編列你們說要釋憲但是我問的問題是為什麼不是先依法編列等到釋憲結果出來之後再依照憲法法庭的決議處理"},{"start":34018.999,"end":34042.844,"text":"我們在這次釋憲當中 我們也提出了暫時處分裁劃法沒有做暫時處分是不是沒有 我們這次有暫時處分裁劃法也有做暫時處分嗎裁劃法有沒有做暫時處分這次有暫時處分所以裁劃法跟國軍的這個待遇條例都有做暫時處分的情況之下我們有的有提釋憲 沒有提暫時處分有的有提釋憲 那我只問你裁劃法嘛裁劃法是不是有提暫時處分 也有提釋憲"},{"start":34044.673,"end":34053.546,"text":"我記得裁判官我們是只有提釋憲沒有提暫時處分好 所以你沒有提暫時處分你只提釋憲好 那我知道了所以你針對國軍的部分你特別還要提這個暫時處分特別針對國軍喔"},{"start":34059.574,"end":34069.384,"text":"我們希望所有公務員福利都能夠有公平性跟恆平性我們今年4月總統核定了對作戰部隊跟志願將官以下你們這個就是第一個公然違法打擊國軍事情但那是颱風是靠他們去救災的"},{"start":34080.214,"end":34106.801,"text":"你知道這些國軍現役弟兄他們被用完即丟的感覺非常的差院長你昨天說不能大幅增加預算但是我要說大幅跟小幅是用比較的就像暫時性關稅已經一個月還在暫時當然如果你跟一兩年比起來也可以說是暫時的你在國防預算的9500億當中軍人待遇提升我想要請問你知不知道比例佔多少9500億裡面如果軍人條例你可以通過的話佔比多少總統對軍人"},{"start":34114.861,"end":34122.119,"text":"事件結果出來之後我們知道事件結果一開始就"},{"start":34125.226,"end":34150.119,"text":"謝謝許竅興委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢謝謝報告委員會 我們中央政府丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例預算案的質詢已經詢答完畢再次感謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢現在做以下決定一 中央政府丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案"},{"start":34150.979,"end":34175.484,"text":"交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查二將各委員會發言記錄及書面質詢函送行政院請就未答覆部分予以書面答覆三已提出之書面質詢尚未登載公報者一律補刊抱怨會再一次呼籲院會行政院卓院長及閣議員是應立法院邀請來立法院報告連續五場專案報告"},{"start":34179.056,"end":34207.799,"text":"很遺憾執政黨的卓院長但是沒有一個執政黨的立法委員在現場我覺得這是非常非常離譜所以我在這裡再一次呼籲民進黨團這種專案報告一定要請民進黨的立法委員在現場一位委員都沒有我們非常感謝國民黨團的徐維珍委員 徐曉新委員臺灣民眾黨團的林益君委員一起參與我們專案報告本次會議進行到此為止先來散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}