{"error":false,"id":["168864"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168864,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168864","日期":"2026-04-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-27T11:00:31+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-27T11:11:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:31","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fcf676897be76b9d471bdbacf62a3b6a502584eb9ab8e1f8df8c171d4c1cef942b2a9aabf465d0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"11:00:31 - 11:11:02","會議時間":"2026-04-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國防部創新小組將新興科技應用於不對稱作戰之效能分析與未來發展」，併請衛生福利部、國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.2415937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.64659375,"end":3.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.992218750000001,"end":7.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.371593750000001,"end":8.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.687843750000003,"end":9.379718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.42846875,"end":22.407218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.59284375,"end":27.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.773468750000003,"end":33.612218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.400968750000004,"end":35.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.26971875,"end":47.719718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.11659375,"end":46.369718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.17534375,"end":48.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.31034375,"end":48.479093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.479093750000004,"end":48.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.59721875,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.74909375,"end":49.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.930343750000006,"end":50.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.49971875,"end":51.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.533468750000004,"end":51.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.98909375,"end":54.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.17034375,"end":53.845343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.11534375,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.38096875,"end":65.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.75471875000001,"end":67.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.67846875000001,"end":78.95534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.95534375000001,"end":80.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.62159375,"end":88.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.63846875,"end":82.16159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.75596875000001,"end":86.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.42221875,"end":90.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.48909375000001,"end":99.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.94784375,"end":103.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.33534375,"end":107.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.74409375,"end":109.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.87034375,"end":110.35971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.90409375,"end":121.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.90784375000001,"end":113.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.23971875000001,"end":126.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.94784375,"end":132.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.37721875,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.97659375,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.58346875,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.31284375,"end":175.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.79784375,"end":168.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.64909375000002,"end":234.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.46346875,"end":229.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.01971875,"end":254.42159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.97846875000002,"end":258.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.16346875,"end":261.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.57659375000003,"end":267.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.61784375,"end":269.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.74409375,"end":270.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":272.52846875,"end":280.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":280.51034375,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.30846875000003,"end":303.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.82721875000004,"end":313.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.54721875,"end":327.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.89534375,"end":331.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.07596875,"end":334.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.62846875,"end":338.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.30721875,"end":353.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":338.34096875,"end":338.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.88284375,"end":372.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.03596875000005,"end":378.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.83721875000003,"end":376.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.27596875,"end":376.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.32659375000003,"end":376.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.34346875,"end":376.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.37721875,"end":376.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.06909375000004,"end":377.102843750000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事實上來講是遵循一個但是我們不斷的對很多的這些新興的一些科研案我們透過跟國科院也好經濟部也好那還有我們中科院本身也好那我們都會來進行相關的這些合作那原型開發也是我們其中的一個一個一個嘗試"},{"start":234.184,"end":258.064,"text":"因為既然是科研就不一定會成功,如果它已經在市面上已經都被商業量產了這個當然就OK,但是既然是科研就不一定會成功所以相關的設計的機制,因為我們要鼓勵民間參與,那民間軍民一起合作如果設下了非常多的障礙,這個民間可能到最後就說叫這個工部做生意很難做"},{"start":260.15,"end":268.156,"text":"我也知道我會失敗啊,也不一定會成功啊,哪有一定成功的,這個部份可能就是民間參與的動力會減少"},{"start":272.774,"end":292.054,"text":"這方面跟我們報告民間參與的動力真正的來源就是第一個在研發階段他的投資成本能夠有國家的資金依住所以這個部分包含學校是由國科會為主然後民間是以經濟部為主這兩邊都會有國家的資金去依住他另外在研發過程中間"},{"start":293.055,"end":313.469,"text":"我們會針對未來的量產看到他已經到達快要成功的階段的時候同時我們會按照產業發展條例輔導他成為國防部的產發認證廠商未來我就可以跳過政府採購法直接跟他採購我想這個國科會經驗很多啦就是跟學校老師跟廠商這種合作也許金額不多但是這種經驗很多第二個"},{"start":314.605,"end":331.208,"text":"就是我們對這些廠商不管你們公開徵求或廠商總是會想說我找一個很好的東西來跟國防部提案看看這樣的一個機制部長這樣的一個機制有沒有可能陷我們這個小組的成員於不義"},{"start":333.303,"end":353.024,"text":"現我們的小組成員不易?不易就是說,現在有一隻手想說我這東西很好,一直想找我們小組成員說我幫你報告一下,這實在是有夠讚的結果我們小組成員就疲於奔命所以你們是公開徵求的機制,或者是廠商提案的這些機制"},{"start":354.005,"end":380.884,"text":"是有一個時間、有一個公告或是有一個什麼或是說這個廠商他做得很好他可能就在某一個工業區、某一個科學區發展一個他覺得很厲害的東西那就想要來報告嘛想要報告對國安部的成員來說這個人要來報告、那個人要來報告報告的時候,又要送你一包蝶米、送你一包伴手禮我告訴你,走開我是說這件事情是一個公開的"},{"start":383.338,"end":408.106,"text":"期間啊 或者是程序還是什麼還是他們隨時都可以有一個過程就可以來體驗這樣子的概念跟我們報告 我們的這個商情的蒐集是持續性 例行性就是幾乎每個禮拜都在進行所以廠商如果他有認為適合我們國防需要的這些產品以及技術 他隨時都可以跟我們聯絡那我們會來安排"},{"start":409.787,"end":437.177,"text":"然後也會召集相關的聯餐跟軍種一起來聽他們的簡報然後甚至於去他們的公司去看實務的展示這些都是持續在進行的那您剛剛講的這個所謂公開徵集我們確實是有一定的時間就是兩階段的這個就是公開徵求的這個部分會開廠商的說明會然後也會公告然後時間都非常明確的會標示"},{"start":439.546,"end":453.973,"text":"所以剛剛包括部長提到115年跟116年這個少量採購跟原型開發這些都有目標的案子準備來推動嗎對 所以就是因為這個"},{"start":455.421,"end":470.279,"text":"不管是小批量多案項或者是原型開發的案子它可以在讓我們在原型開發之後我們進行測試評估那小批量多案項也是在我們進行測試評估這個都是一定要通過測試評估以後"},{"start":472.181,"end":497.358,"text":"經過我們相關的這些聯參部門他們認可各軍種認可之後這個案子才會進行量產那如果沒有辦法通過的話這個案子就那這個所有的研發案就如剛剛所講就是說國科會他也沒有但是我們一定要透過國家的預算來去輔導他們來進行那不然的話我們的國防自主其實就沒有辦法那美國的DIU"},{"start":498.58,"end":520.74,"text":"也是這麼做啊,美國DIU早先還有DAPA,他那個講的再更深遠,他也不一定都會成功那我們的DIU,他們的DIU跟我們的DIU也同樣,他們相對來講是找比較成熟一點的那不管是成熟或者不成熟,那也包括中科院的"},{"start":522.741,"end":545.131,"text":"研發案、科研案都沒有在能夠說確保成功的那如果說都要能夠確保成功,我們不就變成世界第一槍嗎?什麼都可以成功最後剛剛這個部長在回答牛許廷哪一位委員提到的時候,你剛剛有一些案件的數量包括編載115年、116年的這一些計畫"},{"start":550.703,"end":561.375,"text":"請問你們這個順序是怎樣就是說已經決定了這些計畫來編預算還是你們先框了一筆預算然後在這個預算之下去徵集這些計畫順序上是怎樣"},{"start":562.492,"end":584.608,"text":"我們有先框了一個預算,然後我們來進行這個少量採購跟原型開發,但這個預算還是要先通過我們才能執行所以115年的案項,因為還是要等總預算通過才能執行但是你115年的那個案項的金額是剛剛部長已經報到那個少量的跟這個原型開發的這兩個你都有講的一個數字"},{"start":588.389,"end":608.81,"text":"沒有,我剛剛沒有講一些數字,我剛剛講小量採購他每一個案項,10個案項他大概事實上都有一些預算然後原型開發也有一些預算,那這些還是要大院審議通過之後才能夠做所以先花了一筆錢、一筆預算,然後接下來再去找廠商嗎?"},{"start":610.001,"end":628.961,"text":"沒有 我們會 事實上有一些案子已經事先有做一些公開徵集的一些工作OK 就公開徵集所以有這個公開徵集之後的大概的預算對對對 那有一些還在招標的階段有一些已經有保留決標但是要做還是要等到預算通過OK 好 謝謝 謝謝部長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}