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我想請一下行政院卓榮泰院長請卓榮泰院長備詢"},{"start":16.831,"end":33.2,"text":"我想第一個問題的部分要跟文化部有關因為公視基金會董監事的問題其實持續很多年都引起國人很大的關注公視其實是全民的公視,我們大家都理解"},{"start":33.92,"end":56.082,"text":"那監察院在2023年就已經有發文糾正行政院跟文化部而且很具體的提到了幾件事情第一個是直接講到第五屆到第七屆的董監事的改選長期延宕那這個問題很具體那麼第二對於整個補提名的部分不積極然後對於整個制度沒有完全的法制化"},{"start":56.843,"end":84.662,"text":"那這個在五到七屆的時候監察院已經糾正過了現在第八屆 情況還是一樣同樣的問題還是一樣持續的一個上演當中那我們知道在去年的十二月十七號的時候就是第一波的一個董監事提名過了有四席董事 四席監事都過了不過到了四月九號的時候有八席的審查委員聯名"},{"start":88.725,"end":104.862,"text":"辭職導致4月16號的問題流會我想請教一下卓院長三年前就已經糾正了問題為什麼今天還卡在同樣一個坑裡面可不可以請院長回答我們要去研究這幾位董事他提出辭職的原因是什麼"},{"start":106.561,"end":126.092,"text":"他提出的辭呈原因的時候就表示就是文化部在提名就是新的董監事人選的時候不願意去提早去做溝通那麼在這個部分我們針對公共辨識是政黨協商出來的名單才數成這個董事會嗎所以任何的名單送進去就由委員來審查"},{"start":127.148,"end":154.928,"text":"理解齁 這個都沒有問題齁我覺得就是理論上面來說的時候文化部可以直接提了沒有問題齁可是問題是齁我想請教一下齁因為對於整個公共電視法第13條它很清楚的基本上是一個高門檻的一個共識決的一個高共識的一個制度要三分之二的多數決才能夠通過齁那所以說行政院這邊不是提完名之後提了名單"},{"start":156.329,"end":181.954,"text":"就結束了文化部也不是想要怎麼送這個名單就送這個名單因為你要達成三分之二的高門檻的共識這是一個很重要的一個法律的一個前提所以我們看到這個問題就是目前我們看到文化部他有一些回應他沒有提早去整合也沒有提早去建立共識就把責任推給了審查委員跟在野黨"},{"start":182.774,"end":210.135,"text":"那我覺得有些指控其實非常的嚴重啦比方說文化部長直接提到說就是今天的困境就是因為在野黨擱置所致不能怪我們其實我有個疑問是如果不能夠怪文化部那是要怪卓院長嗎卓院長提了一個不願意去溝通的一個部長導致現在公視的董監事一直卡在這個地方可不可以請院長做個回答委員您的這番話對李遠部長是非常的不夠尊重"},{"start":210.987,"end":234.344,"text":"他花了很多的時間去尋訪各界適合擔任董事的這些人名單出來而且真的是耗費非常多的精神一一的去說服拜託了解尋訪去找人沒有問題重點是需要審查委員會同意三分之二高門檻同意"},{"start":234.964,"end":248.991,"text":"所以你找你花了很多的時間無用的時間去找到的人然後審查委員會不願意接受也沒有辦法提到審查委員會來審查委員會連審查都不審查就辭職那這是誰的責任"},{"start":249.986,"end":267.841,"text":"之前的時候因為之前去年12月已經審查過一次所以顯然當時提出來的人沒有辦法讓審查委員會同意所以我在這邊的時候我想特別問到一個問題我想請教一下院長你知不知道第七屆的時候"},{"start":269.022,"end":292.563,"text":"公事董監事審查委員的比例是怎麼樣的一個情況院長知不知道我知道每一屆公事董事都非常難纏可是第七屆他也就順利第二次就順利通過了你知道第七屆的時候公事董監事的審查委員比例是怎麼樣的一個組成嗎部長知不知道"},{"start":293.891,"end":320.372,"text":"第七屆公視董監事審查委員的比例部長知不知道用政黨比例啊對 政黨比例是多少多少10比5啊10比5 誰10執政黨啊執政黨10可是那時候是四分之三啊那個時候那五個人也是杯葛啊你稍微那個我看一下2022年的時候第七屆的時候的人數比例也不是10比5不是你講的這個狀態"},{"start":322.355,"end":333.415,"text":"第七屆的時候公視董建勢的審查委員民進黨有八席然後國民黨有四席當時民眾黨一席然後時代力量有一席"},{"start":334.578,"end":357.9,"text":"這樣子的一個情況的時候在2022年當時李永德部長的時候他第一次提也沒有通過可是他很務實的去處理去面對整個審查委員會的一個結構所以他在第二波的時候就順利通過有12席董事通過12席董事通過的時候其中還有9席"},{"start":359.42,"end":387.534,"text":"是一致決 世襲委員全部都通過的這個就是溝通的一個能量嘛那我們現在看到文化部的時候呢就是沒有打算要做好好的溝通你找了很多人沒有問題可是第一波的時候去年12月的時候已經很清楚知道只有世襲董事過關還有這麼多行沒有過關你第二次要在提名的時候是不是要做更多的溝通"},{"start":388.888,"end":410.734,"text":"我覺得溝通是很重要的 你可以讓我回答可以 不打緊回答公視法裡面就是不能夠讓政黨介入 黨政軍退出才會用政黨比例派出社會公正人士所以現在的審查委員就全部都是政黨比例推出來的一個公正人士為什麼要政黨協商"},{"start":412.714,"end":431.936,"text":"他已經代表民眾我們不講協商我們講事前的溝通你連溝通都不願意嗎我以後的一個狀態部長你在這邊的時候你連事前去做溝通都不願意我們看到你以前當作家的時候我以前曾經是你的讀者你在給要流浪的孩子裡面特別提到"},{"start":434.466,"end":451.021,"text":"溝通是教育當中最重要的一個工作你在寫到爸爸我要休學面對的時候你都特別強調溝通的一個重要性跟價值可是我不知道為什麼當作家小野的時候不斷地強調溝通寫得很好 講得很好"},{"start":452.742,"end":472.369,"text":"可是進到行政院之後感覺變了一個人連董監事的溝通都不願意去溝通你就覺得你自己蒙著頭去找到人出來之後審查委員就要買你的單哪有這件事情啊你怎麼知道我沒有溝通呢去年12月31號我約兩邊的人見面我非常低姿態的協調"},{"start":474.96,"end":499.236,"text":"我不用政黨協調我跟委員協調委員說他要面試要寫報告我全部答應從來沒有過然後有一個委員馬上退出他是我的學生他看出來這件事情是集體做我有個學生國民黨的學生馬上退出他知道這件事情個人不能夠決定的是團體決定團體決定就是要政黨協調"},{"start":502.378,"end":522.02,"text":"我覺得既然審查委員當時是按照政黨的比例推出來的人選你在溝通當中的時候你多花一些能力時間去溝通有這麼困難嗎可是我覺得當我們現在碰到這個問題的時候我們看到的情況是你直接把溝通講成政治勒索"},{"start":522.961,"end":551.3,"text":"把協商說成是綁架我覺得把責任全部推到了在野黨跟審查委員當中我覺得這是很難被人家接受的事情如果說你們跟溝通的部長有效率有能力的時候我覺得審查委員不會聯名辭職如果聯名辭職你都覺得跟你沒有關係都是他們自己的關係的時候那我覺得院長我覺得這樣子的一個部長在溝通的過程當中顯然是有問題的"},{"start":553.382,"end":556.887,"text":"部長已經跟委員講了連現在的溝通我都聽出來是委員有問題"},{"start":559.002,"end":584.818,"text":"他講得很清楚啊他都有去溝通啊雙邊坐下來談那他也提到說自己一個學生的特例你也知道他不是沒有溝通你還在說部長沒有溝通那這個溝通溝通無效嘛 溝通你要有成績比方說李愛德第七屆的時候很清楚我剛剛可以比到一個地方第七屆的狀態說更清楚更是民進黨的人員佔據更高的一個比例可是"},{"start":585.438,"end":597.168,"text":"李勇德當時他都用更大的一個誠意去做溝通可是現在的情況當巴西委員他們會直接逐秀而去的時候他可能想到你有溝通第七屆的那一千天能夠再拖嗎"},{"start":601.531,"end":604.855,"text":"現在我期待你們再派八個人過來我還是會堅持公視不能夠黨政軍介入你派八個公正人士"},{"start":621.212,"end":644.735,"text":"你要刷我的人都沒有辦法 公視原本就沒有黨政經介入現在公視的狀態審查委員的時候政黨比例推出來的狀態可是文化部如果說要非常的二把覺得你推出來的人選審查委員都不能夠有意見的時候那我覺得接下來的一個審查可能也未必這麼容易就能夠過我覺得部長你以前書寫得很好也講得很好"},{"start":646.156,"end":661.773,"text":"溝通一直掛在嘴巴上面我認為你現在在文化部當中對於公事董監事的溝通你一定要更盡一些心思而不是你覺得你講了之後大家都得要買你的這個單沒有這樣的一件事情審查委員他們也有獨立的意志好不好"},{"start":662.754,"end":686.641,"text":"我始終如一我堅持公共電視黨政軍不能介入我們也希望文化部不要把黑手伸進公共電視裡面好不好公共電視那天不是文化部一眼旁部長想要找什麼樣的人都是你的意志去行使如果說審查委員不同意的時候你就不同意你就直接在這邊直接去"},{"start":687.501,"end":711.028,"text":"抹黑審查委員跟在野黨我覺得這樣的溝通是無效的溝通我們希望看到小野時代的作家那個時候小野作家那個時代的一個強調溝通的一個能力能夠在文化部長的離遠的時候也能夠把它做得好好不好我看到的事實是八個委員要用自己八個委員的意志來影響改變決定整個提名的名單就是這樣子而已"},{"start":711.904,"end":728.865,"text":"八個委員已經是在二分之一了我們公視董監視的部分是要三分之二多數決啊你連三分之二多數決你連二分之一都沒有辦法說服你三分之二多數決怎麼去做到連部長提名的這個權利都要被完全收回去嗎"},{"start":731.331,"end":757.66,"text":"不用啊 可是部長平民的時候 重點是要能夠有效的溝通好不好重點 有效的溝通 這個部分我希望卓院長會有的關係我們希望公視的董監事不要在這邊延擋那麼久那委員應該認定部長有去溝通同意 請做有效的溝通 請做有效的溝通好不好那我接下來想請教一下跟體育部有關"},{"start":761.206,"end":781.333,"text":"院長我想請教一下奧運雙金的運動部長運動部長的時候他是具有實權還是只是執政黨把他提名出來的一個花瓶或者是政治門面這個問題問部長答覆會比較真實委員您好"},{"start":787.449,"end":796.44,"text":"你覺得你是花瓶嗎我想我們上任以來做了許多的改變不知道委員您說的我知道你是不是花瓶你覺得"},{"start":798.53,"end":822.518,"text":"還是你覺得你是執政黨的一個政治門面我個人覺得今天院長非常信任我那也讓我給予我很多機會去改變那希望在這點上面也請委員指教我想請教院長你知道政事中政事他提出辭呈是在什麼時候你在什麼時候批准的"},{"start":823.579,"end":851.513,"text":"日期我真的現在記不起來但是傳來給我看的那個辭職信當中部長是簽過名的部長是簽過名的來 所以你是什麼時候辭職那為什麼4月9號的時候李洋部長在接受委員質詢的時候直接表示你是4月9號看了媒體才知道是媒體有問題還是那公文有人造假"},{"start":852.864,"end":866.174,"text":"部長請回答公委員您報告那當天公文確實在前一天有進入到我辦公室但我確實沒有看到你沒看到你沒看到那誰簽的我隔天備詢完之後回去簽的"},{"start":866.656,"end":886.333,"text":"你備詢完之後才去簽的因為當天的時候這個地方因為媒體是直接講到說因為就是4月9號的時候院長已經批准了那我覺得這個部分因為坦白說因為李楊是雙金的奧運"},{"start":887.634,"end":916.633,"text":"的選手 其實我們對他也有很多期待尤其是他之前捐出一千萬的獎金其實我們也都感同身受也都肯定李楊他對於整個台灣運動相關事務的誠意再加上他上任七個月的時候刪減了三億元的一個服兵的一個經費我們都可以看出李楊他想要認真的來推動這個事情可是為什麼我會特別提到戰次辭職的時候部長好像最後一個才知道"},{"start":917.274,"end":920.112,"text":"再加上就是田徑"},{"start":942.728,"end":958.738,"text":"我們都確定支持楊國長我說過 支持你這一排部長"},{"start":964.784,"end":965.325,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝鄭委員 謝謝卓院長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:01.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:05:04.340000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我想請行政院卓榮泰院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:04.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:05:05.122000+08:00","text":"請卓榮泰院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:05.122000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:05:10.476500+08:00","text":"鄭委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:10.476500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:05:15.831000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:15.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:05:32.180000+08:00","text":"我的第一個問題跟文化部有關，因為公視基金會的董監事問題持續了很多年，也引起國人很大的關注，公視其實是全民的公視，我們大概都理解。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:33.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:05:55.062000+08:00","text":"監察院在2023就已經發文糾正行政院跟文化部，而且很具體地提到幾件事情，第一個是直接講到第5屆到第7屆的董監事改選長期延宕，這個問題很具體；第二個是對於整個補提名的部分不積極，整個制度沒有完全的法制化。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:05:56.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:07.271000+08:00","text":"這個問題在第5屆到第7屆的時候監察院已經糾正過了，現在到了第8屆，情況還是一樣，同樣的情況還是持續上演當中。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:08.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:30.007000+08:00","text":"我們知道在去年12月17號，就是第一波的董監事提名後有4席董事、4席監事被通過了，不過4月9號的時候有8席審查委員聯名辭職，導致4月16號的審查會議流會。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:30.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:36.874000+08:00","text":"我想請教卓院長，3年前就已經糾正的問題，為什麼今天還卡在同樣的坑裡面？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:37.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:38.696000+08:00","text":"可不可以請院長回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:39.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:43.862000+08:00","text":"我們要去研究這幾位董事提出辭職的原因是什麼。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:45.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:55.206000+08:00","text":"他提出的辭職原因時表示，文化部提名新的董監事人選時，不願意提早去做溝通。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:56.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:06:57.547000+08:00","text":"在這個部分，我們針對公共電視法……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:06:58.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:07:03.091000+08:00","text":"這些審查委員不都是政黨協商出來的名單，才組成這個董事會嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:07:03.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:07:05.072000+08:00","text":"所以任何名單送進去就由委員來審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:07:06.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:12.422000+08:00","text":"理解，這個都沒有問題，我覺得就理論上來說，文化部可以直接提名人沒有問題，可是問題是，我想請教一下，因為公共電視法第十三條的規定很清楚是高門檻共識決，是高共識制度，要三分之二的多數決才能通過，所以行政院這邊不是提了名單之後就結束了，文化部也不是想怎麼送名單就送名單，因為要達成三分之二的高門檻共識，這是一個很重要的法律前提，所以我們看這個問題就是……目前我們看到文化部有些回應，它沒有提早去做整合，也沒有提早去建立共識，就把責任推給了審查委員跟在野黨，我覺得有些指控其實非常嚴重，比方說文化部長直接提到，今天的困境是因為在野黨擱置所致，不能怪我們。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:12.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:17.346000+08:00","text":"我有個疑問是：如果不能夠怪文化部，是要怪卓院長嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:17.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:23.931000+08:00","text":"卓院長提了一個不願意去溝通的部長，導致現在公視的董監事一直卡在這個地方。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:24.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:25.553000+08:00","text":"可不可以請院長做個回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:25.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:29.115000+08:00","text":"委員，您的這番話對李遠部長是非常地不夠尊重，他花了很多的時間……","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:29.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:30.115000+08:00","text":"部長如果要回答也可以補充回答，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:29.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:08:43.917000+08:00","text":"他花了很多的時間去尋訪各界適合擔任董事的名單出來，而且真的是耗費非常多的精神，一一地去說服、拜託、了解，所以……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:08:44.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:01.268000+08:00","text":"尋訪找人沒有問題，重點是需要審查委員會三分之二的同意，是高門檻同意，所以你花了很多時間、無用的時間去找到了人，但是審查委員會不願意接受也沒有辦法！","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:01.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:07.971000+08:00","text":"把名單提到審查委員會，但審查委員連審查都不審查就辭職，這是誰的責任？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:09.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:25.400000+08:00","text":"因為去年12月已經審查過一次，顯然當時提出來的人沒有辦法讓審查委員會同意，所以我在這邊想特別問到一個問題，我想請教院長，你知道不知道第7屆的公視董監事的審查委員比例是怎麼樣的情況？","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:25.400000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:26.400000+08:00","text":"院長知不知道？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:26.400000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:27.400000+08:00","text":"我知道每一屆公視董事都非常難產，就是因為產生的結構……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:27.400000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:28.400000+08:00","text":"對，可是第7屆在第二次就順利通過了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:26.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:51.023000+08:00","text":"你知道第7屆的時候，公視董監事審查委員的比例是怎麼樣的組成嗎？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:51.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:51.543000+08:00","text":"部長知道不知道？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:52.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:57.775000+08:00","text":"第7屆公視董監事審查委員的比例，部長知不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:58.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:09:58.876000+08:00","text":"用政黨比例。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:09:59.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:10:05.301000+08:00","text":"對，政黨比例是多少？10比5。10比5？誰10？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:10:05.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:10:05.641000+08:00","text":"執政黨。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:10:06.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:10:07.402000+08:00","text":"執政黨10？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:10:07.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:10:10.925000+08:00","text":"可是那時候是四分之三，那時候那5個人也是杯葛啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:10:12.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:10:19.372000+08:00","text":"來，我們來看一下，2022年第7屆的時候，人數比例也不是10比5，不是你講的這個狀態。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:10:21.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:10:34.399000+08:00","text":"第7屆公視董監事審查委員是民進黨8席、國民黨4席、民眾黨1席、時代力量1席，是這樣的情況。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:10:35.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:04.303000+08:00","text":"在2022年，當時李永得部長第一次提也沒有通過，可是他很務實地處理、面對整個審查委員會的結構，所以在第二波的時候就順利通過了，有12席董事通過，這12席董事通過的時候，其中還有9席是一致決，是14席審查委員全部通過的，這個就是溝通的能量嘛！","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:05.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:26.514000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到的文化部就是沒有打算要好好地溝通，你找了很多人沒有問題，可是第一波在去年12月的時候就已經很清楚知道只有4席董事過關，還有這麼多席沒過關，你第二次要再提名的時候是不是要做更多的溝通？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:27.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:29.228000+08:00","text":"我覺得溝通是很重要的嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:29.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:30.169000+08:00","text":"可不可以讓我回答？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:30.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:32.229000+08:00","text":"可以，部長請回答。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:33.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:42.472000+08:00","text":"公視法的規定就是不能讓政黨介入，黨政軍要退出，才會用政黨比例派出社會公正人士……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:43.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:48.213000+08:00","text":"所以現在的審查委員全部都是政黨比例推出來的公正人士。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:48.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:49.714000+08:00","text":"社會公正人士為什麼還要政黨協商？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:51.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:53.036000+08:00","text":"他已經代表民眾……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:53.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:56.920000+08:00","text":"我們不講協商，我們講事前溝通，你連溝通都不願意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:56.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:11:57.920000+08:00","text":"我有溝通啊！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:11:57.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:12:02.386000+08:00","text":"我很疑惑的狀態，部長，你在這邊的時候，你連事前去做溝通都不願意……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:12:02.386000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:12:03.386000+08:00","text":"你怎麼知道我沒有溝通？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:12:02.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:12:19.251000+08:00","text":"我們看到你以前當作家的時候，我以前曾經是你的讀者，你在「給要流浪的孩子」裡面特別提到溝通是教育當中最重要的工作，在「爸爸，我要休學！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:12:19.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:12:44.247000+08:00","text":"」裡面特別提到溝通的重要性跟價值，可是我不知道為什麼，當作家小野的時候，你不斷地強調溝通，寫得很好、講得很好，可是進到行政院之後感覺變了一個人，連董監事的溝通都不願意去溝通，你覺得自己蒙著頭去找到人出來，審查委員就要買你的單，哪有這件事情啊！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:12:44.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:12:45.607000+08:00","text":"你怎麼知道我沒有溝通呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:12:46.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:13:18.236000+08:00","text":"去年12月31號，我約兩邊的人見面，我非常低姿態地協調，我不用政黨協商，我跟委員協調，委員說他要面試、要寫報告，我全部答應，從來沒有過，然後有一個委員馬上退出，他是我的學生，他看出來這件事情是集體做，我有一個學生，國民黨的學生，他馬上退出，他知道這件事情個人不能夠決定了，是團體決定，團體決定就是要政黨協商。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:13:21.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:13:33.191000+08:00","text":"部長，我覺得既然審查委員當時是按照政黨比例所推出來的人選，在溝通的時候，你多花一些能力、時間去溝通，有這麼困難嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:13:33.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:13:34.012000+08:00","text":"我覺得……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:13:34.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:13:51.387000+08:00","text":"當你碰到這個問題的時候，我們看到的情況是你直接把溝通講成政治勒索，把協商說成是綁架，我覺得把責任全部推到在野黨跟審查委員當中，這是很難被人家接受的事情！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:13:51.387000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:13:52.387000+08:00","text":"歷史上從來沒有過，歷史上從來沒有過委員辭職的！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:13:51.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:13:59.973000+08:00","text":"如果你能夠溝通得非常有效率、有能力，我覺得審查委員不會聯名辭職。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:13:59.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:10.280000+08:00","text":"如果審查委員聯名辭職，你都覺得跟你沒有關係、都是他們自己的關係的時候，院長，我覺得這樣的部長，在溝通過程當中顯然是有問題的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:12.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:22.645000+08:00","text":"部長已經跟委員講了，連現在的溝通我都聽出來是委員有問題，他講得很清楚，他都有去溝通，雙邊坐下來談。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:22.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:29.209000+08:00","text":"他也提到自己一個學生的特例，你也知道他不是沒有溝通，你還在說部長沒有溝通，那這個溝通……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:29.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:30.169000+08:00","text":"溝通無效嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:30.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:33.051000+08:00","text":"溝通要有成績，比方說李永得……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:33.051000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:34.051000+08:00","text":"可是你心裡已經有定案了，當然很困難啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:33.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:54.486000+08:00","text":"第7屆的情況很清楚，我剛剛特別去比第7屆的狀態，更清楚，那時候民進黨的委員占更高的比例，可是李永得當時都用更大的誠意去溝通，而現在的情況是8席委員直接拂袖離去，你還不斷強調你有溝通，顯然是無效的溝通嘛！","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:54.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:56.168000+08:00","text":"你說的第7屆，第7屆等了將近1,000天耶，第7屆等了1,000天，能夠再拖嗎？","quality":0.32},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:56.168000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:14:58.349500+08:00","text":"把公視……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:14:58.349500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:15:00.531000+08:00","text":"不能拖，就是不能拖，所以我們才會在總質詢的時候要院長來協助處理這件事情，就是因為不能拖，所以我們才要儘速來處理這件事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:15:00.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:15:21.413000+08:00","text":"現在我期待你們再派8個人過來，我還是會堅持公視不能夠黨政軍介入，你派8個公正人士，你要刷我的人都沒有關係……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:15:21.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:15:39.551000+08:00","text":"公視原本就沒有黨政軍介入，現在公視這個狀態，審查委員是由政黨比例推出來的狀態，可是文化部如果要非常地「壓霸」，覺得你推出來的人選，審查委員都不能夠有意見的時候，那我覺得接下來的審查可能也未必這麼容易就能夠過。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:15:39.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:00.753000+08:00","text":"我覺得，部長，你以前的書寫得很好，也講得很好，也把溝通一直掛在嘴巴上，我認為你現在在文化部任職，對於公視董監事人選的溝通，你一定要更盡一些心思，而不是你覺得你講了之後，大家都得要買你的單，沒有這樣的事情，審查委員他們也有獨立的意志，好不好？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:00.753000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:01.754000+08:00","text":"謝謝，謝謝委員介紹我的書。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:01.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:05.515000+08:00","text":"我始終如一，我堅持公共電視黨政軍不能介入，我請你派8個人……","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:05.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:12.677000+08:00","text":"公共電視黨政軍都沒有介入，我們也希望文化部不要把黑手伸進公共電視裡面，好不好？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:13.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:18.979000+08:00","text":"公共電視那邊不是文化部的一言堂，部長想要找什麼樣的人，都是你的意志去行使……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:18.979000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:19.979000+08:00","text":"你可以派8個人過來，我不刪掉嘛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:19.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:30.922000+08:00","text":"如果審查委員不同意的時候，你就不同意，你就在這邊直接去抹黑審查委員跟在野黨，我覺得這樣的溝通是無效的溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:31.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:42.366000+08:00","text":"我們希望看到小野作家那個時代強調溝通的能力，能夠在文化部長李遠的時候也能夠做得好，好不好？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:42.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:50.008000+08:00","text":"我看到的事實是，8個委員要用自己8個委員的意志來影響、改變、決定整個提名的名單，就是這樣子而已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:50.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:16:52.146000+08:00","text":"他沒有辦法面對我們的名單啊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:16:52.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:04.441000+08:00","text":"8個委員已經是占二分之一了，我們公視董監事的部分是要三分之二多數決，要三分之二多數決，你連二分之一都沒有辦法說服，三分之二多數決怎麼去做到？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:05.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:07.865000+08:00","text":"連部長提名的權力都要被完全收回去嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:10.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:12.472000+08:00","text":"不用啊，部長提名人選，可是部長提名的時候……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:12.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:13.472000+08:00","text":"不用，對啊，提名他不審，他自己辭職……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:12.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:15.773000+08:00","text":"重點是要能夠有效的溝通，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:16.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:20.254000+08:00","text":"重點是有效的溝通，這個部分我希望卓院長特別地關心……","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:20.254000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:21.275000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長已經說了，委員還認為部長沒有去溝通嗎？","quality":0.048},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:21.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:24.836000+08:00","text":"我們希望公視的董監事不要在這邊延宕那麼久……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:25.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:27.117000+08:00","text":"那委員應該認定部長有去溝通……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:28.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:30.398000+08:00","text":"同意，請做有效的溝通……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:30.398000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:31.438000+08:00","text":"但是溝通的結果是8個委員辭職。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:31.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:33.699000+08:00","text":"請做有效的溝通，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:34.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:36.660000+08:00","text":"接下來我想請教一下跟運動部有關的議題。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:40.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:17:59.373000+08:00","text":"院長，我想請教一下，奧運雙金的運動部長是具有實權，還是只是執政黨把他提名出來的一個花瓶或者是政治門面，可不可以請……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:17:59.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:00.273000+08:00","text":"這個問題由部長答復會比較真實。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:00.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:00.313000+08:00","text":"委員您好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:06.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:08.451000+08:00","text":"你覺得你是花瓶嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:08.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:12.977000+08:00","text":"我想我們上任以來做了許多的改變，不知道委員您說的是……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:13.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:13.397000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:14.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:15.420000+08:00","text":"你是不是花瓶你覺得？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:15.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:17.530000+08:00","text":"我個人認為我們在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:17.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:20.131000+08:00","text":"還是你覺得你是執政黨的一個政治門面？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:20.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:29.154000+08:00","text":"我個人覺得今天院長非常信任我，也給予我很多機會去改變，希望在這一點上面也請委員指教。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:29.154000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:31.955000+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:31.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:41.498000+08:00","text":"我想請教院長，你知道鄭世忠鄭次長他提出辭呈是在什麼時候，你在什麼時候批准的？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:42.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:49.923000+08:00","text":"日期我真的現在記不起來，但是傳來給我看的那個辭職信當中，部長是簽過名的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:50.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:55.846000+08:00","text":"部長是簽過名的，來，所以你是什麼時候接受他的辭職？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:55.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:58.227000+08:00","text":"那為什麼……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:58.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:18:59.227000+08:00","text":"日期我要查一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:18:58.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:07.111000+08:00","text":"4月9號李洋部長在接受委員質詢的時候，直接表示你是4月9號看了媒體才知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:08.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:10.493000+08:00","text":"是媒體有問題，還是那公文有人造假？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:11.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:12.404000+08:00","text":"部長請回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:12.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:19.269000+08:00","text":"跟委員您報告，公文確實在質詢的前一天有進入到我的辦公室，但我確實沒有看到。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:20.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:20.550000+08:00","text":"你沒看到？是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:21.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:22.152000+08:00","text":"你沒看到，那誰簽的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:22.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:25.154000+08:00","text":"隔天我備詢完之後回去簽的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:25.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:26.957000+08:00","text":"你備詢完之後才去簽的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長洋","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:26.957000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:19:32.922000+08:00","text":"對，鄭次長現在這個請辭的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:19:32.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:15.613000+08:00","text":"當天因為媒體直接講到4月9號的時候院長已經批准了，我覺得這個部分，坦白說李洋是得到奧運雙金的選手，我們對他也有很多期待，尤其是他之前捐出1,000萬的獎金，其實我們也都感同身受，也都肯定李洋他對於整個臺灣運動相關事務的誠意，再加上他上任7個月的時候刪減了3億元浮編的經費，我們都可以看出李洋他想要認真地來推動這個事情，可是為什麼我會特別提到政次辭職的時候，部長好像是最後一個才知道……","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:15.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:19.965500+08:00","text":"不是、不是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:19.965500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:24.318000+08:00","text":"再加上田徑國際賽事的預算部分，最後是說要以運發基金來支應、使用，可是一開始的時候，感覺也是因為卡到718億這樣的特別經費的時候，我這邊只是要特別提到一點，就是李部長他有意願要把臺灣的體育環境弄得更好，希望院長能夠大力地支持。","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:24.318000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:28.670500+08:00","text":"我全力支持李洋部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:28.670500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:33.023000+08:00","text":"不要讓他變成只是一個政治門面，如果次長要下臺，他都是最後一個才知道的時候……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:33.023000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:37.375500+08:00","text":"並非如此、並非如此。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:37.375500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:41.728000+08:00","text":"我就會覺得他可能就只是一個花瓶。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-28T15:20:41.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:20:57.738000+08:00","text":"我們都全力支持李洋部長，我說過，他不只是一個金牌部長，他要是一個擦亮運動部金牌的社長。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-28T15:21:03.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:21:03.784000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鄭委員正鈐","start":"2026-04-28T15:21:03.784000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:21:04.784000+08:00","text":"我們對運動部有期待，請加油，謝謝。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-28T15:21:04.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-28T15:21:04.325000+08:00","text":"謝謝鄭委員、謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-28T15:21:04.825000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-28T15:21:07.967857+08:00","text":"下一位請謝衣鳯委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}