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謝謝主席 在這邊有請黃秘書長好 有請黃秘書長秘書長好 是 謝謝在上一次本席在質詢的時候也提到了對於第七屆監察委員提名的事情不知道秘書長之後有沒有把本席所關切的總統到底會不會提名"},{"start":32.496,"end":56.813,"text":"監察委員的這個事情有傳達給總統府那邊知道嗎他們應該會如期的提出監察委員的候選人吧我想我們會透過我們的行政系統院長這邊來傳達我可能不好不方便直接對總統報告那可能就麻煩代理院長要去傳達這件事情因為其實監察的業務"},{"start":58.676,"end":76.705,"text":"這個案件量大而且呢也攸關就是人民的這些陳情的案陳情的事情那都跟大家的這個權益相關所以我希望就是說監察院那裡可能還是要適時的去反映就是有關於"},{"start":78.085,"end":89.755,"text":"監察委員候選人提名的事情是那麼那本席其實也還關心就是有關於秘書長您在這個未來去留的問題因為事實上因為秘書長這個職務是政務官是理論上應該是會隨著"},{"start":96.06,"end":114.696,"text":"監察院的副院長還有這一屆的監察委員同進退喔那麼如果說是在7月31號因為這一屆的委員應該是做到7月31吧還是到7月31到7月31號嘛那7月31號之後那秘書長您就會跟著一起同進退了嗎"},{"start":115.952,"end":138.452,"text":"這我講依照慣例是會提出辭呈我們依照慣例會提出辭呈是所以如果說是在下一個就是假設這個監察委員不是無縫接軌的話那換句話說監察院的秘書長可能又會空一段時間空缺一段時間這必須依照慣例來進行我是不是請副秘書長他在監察院40年簡單的說明那請秘書長"},{"start":142.556,"end":155.812,"text":"請複密有關於等到這一屆到7月31號結束那秘書長是會依照程序提出書面的詞呈給總統府這樣子"},{"start":157.734,"end":172.945,"text":"那上次也是有提出來是給總統府,它不是應該是按照你的監察院組織法是由院長任命的所以理論上它應該是由跟著院長同進退嘛是是是,也有提"},{"start":175.026,"end":179.187,"text":"好那本席要提醒的是說因為你看我這裡有大概看了一下在歷屆的秘書長幾乎都是跟監察委員們同進退的所以本席其實也很希望就是如果我們監察委員能夠無縫接軌的話那黃秘書長或許您還有繼續留下來的機會因為才剛上任沒多久的時間嘛那麼但是呢如果說萬一這個監察委員沒有辦法銜接上的話那麼變成黃秘書長您可能"},{"start":204.913,"end":220.731,"text":"會是這個比較短命的院長就是短命的秘書長就是在任期上面了那麼這本市會覺得比較遺憾好那麼接下來本市另外再問一個問題就是我在上次因為有關注到"},{"start":222.112,"end":249.508,"text":"監察院的委託調查案件很多比例很高啊比這個派查案件應該是說在從第四屆第五屆第六屆的這個監察委員的委託調查案件是成這個暴增在第四屆的委託調查案件當時只有一屆就是第四屆的六年任期只有一屆的委託調查案件第五屆"},{"start":250.569,"end":256.771,"text":"就前一屆的監察委員當時的委託調查案件是86那到這一屆到目前為止到115年的3月委託調查案件就高達3809件其實這是一個非常驚人的數字相對於委託調查案件是非常多倍的成長"},{"start":274.212,"end":289.119,"text":"派查案件就是真正監察委員自己去查的案件呢卻明顯下降啊那麼第四屆當然到時候的自己的調查派查的案件比例是他的案件數字最高高達差不多2800件然後第五屆是將近2000件然後第六屆然後則下降到大概1700件左右那本席想要了解的就是說那為什麼"},{"start":298.368,"end":324.683,"text":"監察委員現在很多應該自己要去調查的事情自己不去做卻又委託給其他的指定機關去做調查我這邊舉個例子來講好了如果說今天有一個陳情案他是陳情針對法務部那麼監察委員會不會又把這個案子又指定給法務部讓他委託他又去調查"},{"start":327.158,"end":348.736,"text":"跟委員報告 關於所謂委託調查案 它的法源依據是監察法第30條這已經是明定在法律上的依據所以我沒辦法在這邊代表上一屆的委員等等上上一屆委員說明為什麼他們沒有運用這個權利但是這個權利的運用確實是法律所賦予的"},{"start":348.936,"end":369.083,"text":"另外一個他這樣的一個作為當初立法的理由是為了希望能夠做一些簡易的調查以及派查的先行程序也就是說有些事情不用進入到派查然後大局調動調查官以及委員去查案然後就可以得到一個不錯的一個結果"},{"start":369.603,"end":382.327,"text":"也在這個三千多件裡面我們也平反了三百九十八件到現在為止三百九十八件利用委託調查的方式來進行平反的案件好 謝謝秘書長的說明那麼其實剛剛秘書長這樣講我會認為說我們這一屆的監察委員太善用監察法第30條這個委託調查的"},{"start":394.89,"end":420.717,"text":"這樣的一個權利那事實上第430條意思是監察院於必要的時候可以就案件指定案件委託其他機關調查是在必要的時候那看起來就是監察委員可能認為有太多太多必要的時候反正我基本上就是把這些案子就委託給其他的機關去做調查某種程度對外界來看會認為是不是在規避自己的應盡的責任"},{"start":422.937,"end":434.142,"text":"應該要去行使的派查或調查權反而他把這個調查權呢又委託給其他的機關去處理而且委託的機關也不知道是不是就是同樣是被陳情被檢舉的機關本心其實認為說這個"},{"start":439.865,"end":452.122,"text":"這個有關於委託調查的部分監察院應該要自己要去討論有關於他使用的時機而且剛剛我們聽這個秘書長說的就是委託調查的這3800多"},{"start":455.492,"end":470.319,"text":"的案件當中大概有300多件所謂的平反是之後應該又回到監察院裡面然後再去進行派查不是 直接就在這個檢疫調查過程中就替人民解決了問題大概有398件到目前為止"},{"start":470.979,"end":490.796,"text":"那這個也是讓我們的調查相關的工作查核 派查的相關工作能夠有效率的來進行所以基本上就是由那個被陳情的機關他再做一個自我審查嗎是的 等於是我們要求他自我審查點出了疑慮 點出了疑問之後他們自我的改進了所以相當程度其實也是一種求援兼裁判嘛因為你剛剛講說300多件被平反那就代表說可能還有3000多件基本上是"},{"start":495.06,"end":500.863,"text":"這個被檢舉的調查自己有沒有錯誤的機關他認為他自己沒有問題啊調查報告回來之後就算是沒有給民眾平反我們這邊也會就調查的內容他們回覆的內容做相關的審核然後如果有問題我們還是會拒於指摘然後如果這個案件發現他們委託調查沒辦法解決問題最後還是會進入到派查這個系統讓監委直接跟調查官"},{"start":524.315,"end":525.598,"text":"直接進入到調查的系統"},{"start":530.462,"end":558.7,"text":"請監察院提供的資料就是說請你們將你們委託調查的案件的指定機關幫我做就是提供給我一個比較清楚的數據你們都是指定給哪些機關有多少的案件可以提供這個資料給我嗎我把相關委託調查的相關的工作跟您說明接下來本席還要再講的就是說事實上因為從你們的這一屆的監察委員的派查案件數來看"},{"start":559.921,"end":579.57,"text":"其實的確是蠻少的本席幫你們算了一下這個監察委員總共二十九人然後任期六年以你們現在的派查案件只有一千六百九十一件到三月我就算是如果說以這個數字來看的話大概平均每人一年大概只有處理十件十個案件"},{"start":580.772,"end":599.443,"text":"就算是如果说算到7月31号你们突然突飞猛进做了很多的调查案件大概平均一个人也就差不多15件吧我们花了那么多的这个经费监察院每年也编了将近10亿的经费但你们处理的案件数事实上是很少的"},{"start":600.543,"end":626.523,"text":"那人民的陳情案件又這麼多那看起來你們的確是蠻多的案子其實是擱在那裡沒有處理或是慢慢的處理我們是不是委員容我跟第五屆做一點比較第五屆的派查案件大概是一八八二件我們現在目前為止是一五七二但是我們有三百九十八件也就是這些平反案件三千多件這些都是經過委員他簽署之後"},{"start":626.803,"end":645.645,"text":"我希望監察委員要一屆比一屆的認真如果總是不能總是跟過去比更何況這一屆的監察委員是當時是有等於是都是民進黨政府他自己一手提名的這麼多的監察委員所以這些監察委員是不是"},{"start":646.826,"end":656.03,"text":"他沒有積極的去查民進黨政府裡面有哪些官員違法失職以至於案件數量這麼少因為每一屆的監察委員他的政黨的比例他的性質不太一樣那在這一屆的監察委員很清楚的"},{"start":662.532,"end":681.299,"text":"百分之百都是民進黨政府提的然後當時根本沒有經過審查全部全數都通過那明明我們就看到這十年來我們的政府出了很多的問題有非常多的弊案從農業部衛福部尤其是疫情的時候大家看到這麼多的弊案就好像也沒有怎麼去查"},{"start":682.319,"end":701.56,"text":"所以這是本席要講的就是說當然這不能夠說怪罪於祕書長因為我今天只是要把這一屆監察委員的問題點出來那麼接下來您說這一屆委員容我回應一件事這一屆委員有一個比較大的特色在過去沒有就是國家人權委員會的成立"},{"start":702.541,"end":717.272,"text":"國家人權委員會的成立是從這一屆開始結果它每年會有十個委員將至少至於一半的時間放在國家人權委員會的工作上面是 謝謝民主黨你提到這個國家人權委員會本席認為這就是個跌床架屋的組織"},{"start":718.975,"end":742.664,"text":"監察院應該好好去辦正事國家人權委員會的這相關報告坦白說幕僚作業就可以了啦然後寫好了報告之後再由監察委員去評估實際上這些監察委員真的重要的這個公務機關違法失職的案件你不去辦然後都去弄一些人權委員會國家人權的案子國家人權你看法務部也做司法院也做教育部也做"},{"start":743.684,"end":757.72,"text":"幾乎很多機關都在有他們自己的人權的政策或是也在做相關的人權研究所以本席是希望下一屆的監察委員能夠真的好好的把注意力放在"},{"start":759.062,"end":764.026,"text":"相關的派查案件上面 調查案件上面那接下來本期還有一個問題也是剛剛陳昭志委員有提到了就是監察院現在就是要來審查有關於林智堅論文抄襲案那這個林智堅的論文抄襲案當時是發生在2022年到現在已經將近隔了四年五年了"},{"start":782.719,"end":808.199,"text":"那麼這一屆的監察委員他們上任是在2019年也就是說是當時林志堅的論文抄襲案發生的時候這些監察委員他們當時就已經在任了他們如果說認為說是台大那邊的這個台大學校的論文審定委員會可能有違反學術倫理或是在審查的流程有問題應該要積極的"},{"start":811.175,"end":838.547,"text":"依職權啟動調查可是我現在聽到秘書長還有之前副秘有講的就是說現在監察院案子是怎麼樣都是要等待陳情又有陳情人陳情之後才會去調查嗎這根本與法不合啊這是你們的監察權就應該依職權啟動調查所以這不禁讓人懷疑就是說到底現在陳情人是誰是林志堅本人嗎"},{"start":839.281,"end":867.555,"text":"我們沒辦法瞭解這個案子監察行政沒辦法瞭解這些事情當然之後就會知道陳情人是不是明智階因為在先前不管是像是浩鼎案當時的翁啟惠院長或者是還有這個有兩度彈劾陳龍祥檢察官的詢問窮案等等其實看起來很多時候就是陳情人可能也許就是自己當事人"},{"start":869.059,"end":877.556,"text":"對 那在這個案子裡面就是讓大家也會對於監察院監察委員到底有沒有真的認真的"},{"start":878.464,"end":900.621,"text":"去行使他們的職權這件事情感到疑惑都要快卸任了還要差三個月就要卸任了然後這時候再重啟調查來得及辦完嗎這是113年的113年沒有這是113年起動的案子現在才開始要進行調查本市要更正不是嗎"},{"start":901.381,"end":913.48,"text":"他調查了將近快兩年的時間並不是說他本身這個時候才開始啟動調查你能不能再講清楚你這個案子到底是什麼時候開始調查的?13年的4月9號"},{"start":915.711,"end":921.054,"text":"所以當時就已經有這個陳情案了對就有陳情案所以調查了兩年多而且這也不一定是我們委員並沒有單指說是任何一個個人包括剛剛委員所指摘的某個個案並沒有是這樣子它是以在學術相關的案件但是它不是單指個人的案件我想請秘書長最後用很短的時間再告訴我們到底現在這個陳情案件是什麼時候成立的你可以告訴大家是什麼時候成立的嗎"},{"start":943.626,"end":953.896,"text":"派查的時間是113年的4月9號派查時間是113年的4月9號當時就已經成立了對 這樣兩年前了兩年前 所以你們還在調查中這個整個的調查機關呢調查機關被調查機關或是當時的相關機關教育部以及台大"},{"start":966.533,"end":978.38,"text":"教育部以及台大是所以从113年到现在是那是这个经常委员才要开始认真的去办案还是说现在已经准备要结案了"},{"start":979.651,"end":1000.284,"text":"這個我沒辦法替委員回答這個問題就是說他的最後的結論等等這還是屬於調查的內容總之就是這個案子這個監察院似乎也沒有說得很清楚所以讓外界會誤以為說你們是2026年然後才正式啟動調查那麼如果說之前13年就立案了那為什麼要拖拖這麼久"},{"start":1001.164,"end":1025.771,"text":"然後這個案子連林志堅抄襲的在法院都已經判決定業了因為他們事後是和解嘛那林志堅自己的論文被撤銷他也沒有提起訴訟嗎他有向台大提起訴訟嗎有去告台大嗎這我不瞭解沒有嘛這我不瞭解所以就對大家來講大家覺得說這個案子都已經都已經確定了那你現在突然之間監察院又說我要來這個調查"},{"start":1029.69,"end":1056.702,"text":"台大然後調查教育部這是蠻奇怪的這就大家會有什麼會質疑說這一屆的監察委員那麼是不是都是選擇性辦案而且看起來是要在這個現任之前然後就給民進黨政府再交一份成績單嗎好那麻煩請你們回去這個轉告監察委員們希望這個案子趕快就有一個什麼結果趕快就"},{"start":1058.223,"end":1061.034,"text":"就這個案子要做出來不要再拖拖拉拉"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:20:52.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:20:52.942000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.142000+08:00","text":"在這邊有請黃秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.202000+08:00","text":"有請黃秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.222000+08:00","text":"秘書長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.262000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:20:53.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:21:26.780000+08:00","text":"上一次本席在質詢的時候也提到了對於第7屆監察委員提名的事情，不知道秘書長之後有沒有把本席所關切的，就是總統到底會不會提名監察委員的這件事情有傳達給總統，總統府那邊知道嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:21:26.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:21:30.523000+08:00","text":"他們應該會如期提出監察委員的候選人吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:21:32.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:21:39.309000+08:00","text":"是，我們會透過我們的行政系統、院長這邊來傳達，我可能不方便直接對總統報告。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:21:39.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:21:43.111000+08:00","text":"是，可能就麻煩代理院長要去傳達這件事情。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:21:43.111000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:21:44.111000+08:00","text":"當然、當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:21:43.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:09.587000+08:00","text":"因為其實監察的業務案件量大，而且也攸關人民陳情的這些事情，都跟大家的權益相關，所以我希望監察院那裡可能還是要適時去反映有關於監察委員候選人提名的事情。是。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:11.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:18.475000+08:00","text":"好，本席其實也還關心有關於秘書長您未來去留的問題，事實上因為秘書長這個職務是政務官。是。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:18.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:35.769000+08:00","text":"理論上應該是會隨著監察院副院長和這一屆的監察委員同進退，如果是在7月31號，這一屆的委員應該是做到7月31日吧？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:36.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:36.310000+08:00","text":"還是8月31號？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:36.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:37.250000+08:00","text":"到7月31號。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:37.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:38.832000+08:00","text":"到7月31號嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:39.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:43.696000+08:00","text":"7月31號之後，秘書長您就會跟著一起同進退了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:45.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:22:50.798000+08:00","text":"依照慣例會提出辭呈，我們依照慣例會提出辭呈。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:22:51.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:03.509000+08:00","text":"是，所以如果假設監察委員不是無縫接軌的話，換句話說，監察院的秘書長可能又會空缺一段時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:03.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:06.411000+08:00","text":"因為這必須依照慣例來進行，我是不是請副秘書長簡單說明？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:06.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:07.012000+08:00","text":"他在監察院40年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:07.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:07.452000+08:00","text":"好，請副秘書長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:13.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:30.237000+08:00","text":"是，有關於等到這一屆7月31號結束，秘書長是會依照程序提出書面辭呈給總統府，上次也是一樣有提出來。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:30.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:30.937000+08:00","text":"是給總統府？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:31.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:40.344000+08:00","text":"他不是應該按照監察院組織法，是由院長任命的，所以理論上他應該是跟著院長同進退？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:40.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:41.925000+08:00","text":"是、是，也有提。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:44.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:23:47.447000+08:00","text":"好，本席要提醒的是，因為我大概看了一下歷屆的秘書長幾乎都是跟監察委員們同進退的，所以本席其實也很希望如果我們監察委員能夠無縫接軌的話，黃秘書長或許您還有繼續留下來的機會，因為才剛上任沒多久的時間嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:23:47.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:24:21.742000+08:00","text":"但是如果萬一監察委員沒有辦法銜接上的話，變成黃秘書長您可能會是在任期上面比較短命的秘書長，本席會覺得比較遺憾。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:24:24.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:24:34.834000+08:00","text":"接下來，本席另外再問一個問題，我在上次因為有關注到監察院的委託調查案件很多、比例很高。是。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:24:35.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:24:57.768000+08:00","text":"比派查案件……應該是從第4屆、第5屆、第6屆監察委員的委託調查案件呈現暴增，在第4屆的委託調查案件，當時只有1件，就是第4屆的6年任期只有1件的委託調查案件。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:24:58.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:25:04.830000+08:00","text":"第5屆，也就是前一屆的監察委員，當時的委託調查案件是86件，到這一屆目前為止，到115年3月的委託調查案件就高達3,809件，其實這是一個非常驚人的數字。是。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:25:04.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:25:56.833000+08:00","text":"相對於委託調查案件是呈現非常多倍的成長，然而派查案件，就是真正監察委員自己去查的案件卻明顯下降，第4屆當時自己調查、派查的案件數比例是最高，高達差不多2,800件，第5屆是將近2,000件，第6屆則下降到1,700件左右，本席想要了解的就是，為什麼監察委員現在很多應該要自己去調查的事情，自己不去做卻又委託給其他的指定機關去做調查？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:25:57.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:26:13.663000+08:00","text":"我這邊舉個例子來講好了，如果今天有一個陳情案是針對法務部檢舉、陳情，監察委員會不會把這個案子又指定給法務部，委託它又去調查？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:26:16.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:26:37.716000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，關於所謂委託調查案，它的法源依據是監察法第三十條，這已經是明定在法律上的依據，所以我沒辦法在這邊代表上一屆的委員、上上一屆的委員等等來說明為什麼他們沒有運用這個權力，但是這個權力的運用確實是法律所賦予的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:26:37.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:26:58.063000+08:00","text":"另外，他這樣一個作為，當初立法的理由是為了希望能夠做一些簡易的調查以及派查的先行程序，也就是說，有些事情不用進入到派查，然後大舉調動調查官以及委員去查案，就可以得到一個不錯的結果。好、是。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:26:58.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:27:09.986000+08:00","text":"在這三千多件裡面，我們也平反了398件，到現在為止，有398件利用委託調查的方式來進行平反的案件。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:27:10.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:27:24.710000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝秘書長的說明，其實剛剛秘書長這樣講，我會認為我們這一屆的監察委員太善用監察法第三十條委託調查這樣一個權力。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:27:25.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:28:02.962000+08:00","text":"事實上，第三十條意思是說監察院於必要的時候，可以就指定案件委託其他機關調查，是在必要的時候，看起來就是監察委員可能認為有太多太多必要的時候，反正我基本上就是把這些案子委託給其他的機關去做調查，某種程度對外界來看會認為是不是在規避自己應盡的責任，即應該要去行使的派查或調查權，反而他把這個調查權又委託給其他機關處理，而且委託的機關也不知道是否就是同樣被陳情、被檢舉的機關。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:28:02.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:28:32.015000+08:00","text":"本席其實認為有關於委託調查的部分，監察院應該自己要去討論關於使用的時機，而且剛剛我們聽秘書長說的，委託調查的這三千八百多的案件當中，大概有三百多件所謂的平反，應該是之後又回到監察院裡面，然後再去……","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:28:32.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:28:46.465000+08:00","text":"不是，直接就在簡易調查過程中就替人民解決了問題，到目前為止大概有398件，這個也是讓我們查核、派查的相關工作有效率來進行……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:28:46.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:28:49.227000+08:00","text":"所以基本上就是由那個被檢舉、被陳情的機關再做一個自我審查嗎？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:28:49.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:28:55.453000+08:00","text":"是的，等於是我們要求它自我審查，點出了疑慮、點出了疑問之後，他們自我的改進。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:28:55.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:05.381000+08:00","text":"所以相當程度其實也是一種球員兼裁判，因為你剛剛講說三百多件被平反，那就代表可能還有三千多件基本上是被調查……應該是說被檢舉調查自己有沒有錯誤的機關，他認為他自己沒有問題。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:29:05.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:34.598000+08:00","text":"調查報告回來之後，就算是沒有給民眾平反，我們這邊也會就調查的內容、他們回復的內容做相關的審核，如果有問題，我們還是會據以指摘，如果發現這個案件他們的委託調查沒辦法解決問題，最後還是會進入到派查這個系統，讓監委跟調查官直接進入到調查系統裡面。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:29:39.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:50.809000+08:00","text":"希望有一份請監察院提供的資料，就是請你們將委託調查案件的指定機關提供給我一個比較清楚的數據。好的。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:29:50.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:53.411000+08:00","text":"你們都是指定給哪些機關？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:29:53.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:54.251000+08:00","text":"有多少的案件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:29:54.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:55.993000+08:00","text":"可以提供這個資料給我，好嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:29:55.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:29:59.495000+08:00","text":"好的，我把委託調查的相關工作來跟你說明。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:30:00.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:30:38.697000+08:00","text":"接下來本席還要再講的是，從這一屆監察委員的派查案件數來看，其實的確是蠻少的，本席幫你們算了一下，監察委員總共29人，然後任期6年，而你們到3月的派查案件只有1,691件，以這個數字來看的話，大概平均每人一年大概只有處理10個案件，就算是到7月31號，你們突然突飛猛進，做了很多的調查案件，平均一個人也就差不多15件吧！","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:30:39.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:30:57.329000+08:00","text":"我們花了那麼多的經費，監察院每年也編列將近10億的經費，但你們處理的案件數事實上是很少的，而人民的陳情案件又這麼多，看起來你們有蠻多的案子的確是都擱在那裡沒有處理或是慢慢處理。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:30:58.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:31:02.713000+08:00","text":"委員，是不是容我跟第5屆做一點比較？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:31:02.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:31:15.503000+08:00","text":"第5屆的派查案件大概是1,882件，而我們到目前為止是1,572件，但是我們委託調查三千多件，有398件平反，這些也都是經過委員簽署之後決定用比較簡易的方式來進行。","quality":0.585},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:31:15.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:31:42.929000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我希望監察委員要一屆比一屆認真，你不能總是跟過去比，更何況這一屆的監察委員當時等於都是由民進黨政府自己一手提名的這麼多的監察委員，是不是因為這些監察委員怠惰，他們沒有積極去查民進黨政府裡面有哪些官員違法失職，以至於案件數量這麼少？","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:31:43.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:31:57.354000+08:00","text":"因為每一屆監察委員的政黨比例及性質不太一樣，而這一屆監察委員很清楚的百分之百都是由民進黨政府提名，當時根本沒有經過審查就全數都通過。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:31:57.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:32:10.279000+08:00","text":"明明我們就看到這10年來我們的政府出了很多的問題、有非常多的弊案，從農業部到衛福部等等，尤其是疫情的時候，大家看到這麼多的弊案，結果好像也沒有怎麼去查。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:32:13.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:32:21.671000+08:00","text":"當然這不能怪罪於秘書長，我今天只是要把這一屆監察委員的問題點出來，那麼接下來……","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:32:21.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:32:41.489000+08:00","text":"委員，您提到這一屆委員，請容我回應一件事，這一屆委員有一個比較大的特色是過去沒有的，那就是國家人權委員會的成立，國家人權委員會的成立是從這一屆開始，每年會有10個委員將自己至少一半的時間放在國家人權委員會的工作上面，這是依照……","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:32:41.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:32:57.379000+08:00","text":"謝謝秘書長提到國家人權委員會，本席認為這就是個疊床架屋的組織，監察院應該好好去辦正事，坦白講，國家人權委員會的相關報告由幕僚作業就可以了，他們寫好報告之後再由監察委員去評估。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:32:58.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:33:29.523000+08:00","text":"實際上這些監察委員放著重要的公務機關違法失職的案件不去辦，然後都去國家人權委員會弄一些人權的案子，針對國家人權，你看法務部也做，司法院也做，教育部也做，幾乎很多機關都有他們自己的人權政策，或是也在做相關的人權研究，所以本席希望下一屆的監察委員能夠真的好好的把注意力放在相關的調查案件上面。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:33:29.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:33:30.523000+08:00","text":"國家人權委員會的設立是按照大院通過的法律……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:33:29.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:21.696000+08:00","text":"接下來本席還有一個問題，這也是剛剛陳昭姿委員提到的，就是監察院現在要審查林智堅論文抄襲案，林智堅論文抄襲案是發生在2022年，到現在已經隔了四、五年，這一屆的監察委員上任是在2019年，也就是說，當初林智堅論文抄襲案發生的時候，這些監察委員當時就已經在任了，如果他們認為臺大的論文審定委員會可能有違反學術倫理，或是審查的流程有問題，那就應該要積極地依職權啟動調查。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:22.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:37.823000+08:00","text":"可是我現在聽到秘書長還有之前副秘也有講了，說是現在監察院的案子都要等待有陳情人陳情之後才會去調查嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:37.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:39.103000+08:00","text":"這根本於法不合啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:39.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:46.766000+08:00","text":"這是你們的監察權，就應該依職權啟動調查，所以這不禁讓人懷疑到底現在陳情人是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:46.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:47.547000+08:00","text":"是林智堅本人嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:48.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:34:52.163000+08:00","text":"我們沒辦法了解，關於這個案子，監察行政沒辦法了解這些細節，這在調查中是屬於委員的職權……","quality":0.513},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:34:52.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:16.535000+08:00","text":"當然之後就會知道陳情人是不是林智堅，因為先前不管是浩鼎案的翁啟惠院長，或者是兩度彈劾陳隆翔檢察官曲棍球案等等，看起來很多時候陳情人也許就是當事人自己。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:18.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:39.733000+08:00","text":"在這個案子裡面，大家也會對監察院的監察委員到底有沒有認真去行使他們的職權這件事情感到疑惑，都快要卸任了，還差三個月就要卸任了，結果這時候再重啟調查，來得及辦完嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:41.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:45.758000+08:00","text":"沒有，這是113年啟動的案子……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:46.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:49.621000+08:00","text":"對不起，現在不是要重啟調查，而是現在才開始要進行調查，本席要更正，不是嗎？","quality":0.531},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:50.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:35:57.552000+08:00","text":"不是，他已經調查了快兩年的時間，並不是他本身這個時候才開始啟動調查。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:35:57.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:01.839000+08:00","text":"你能不能再講清楚一點，這個案子到底是什麼時候開始調查的？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:01.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:02.480000+08:00","text":"113年4月9號就啟動調查了。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:04.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:04.851000+08:00","text":"所以當時就已經有陳情案了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:04.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:04.931000+08:00","text":"對，就有陳情案了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:04.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:05.131000+08:00","text":"所以調查了兩年多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:05.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:06.972000+08:00","text":"而且這也不一定是……委員並沒有單指是任何一個個人，包括剛才委員所指摘的某個個案，並不是這樣子，它是與學術相關的案件，但他不是單指個人的案件。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:07.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:09.313000+08:00","text":"最後我想請秘書長用很短的時間再告訴我們，到底這個陳情案件是什麼時候成立的？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:09.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:10.054000+08:00","text":"你可以告訴大家是什麼時候成立的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:32.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:36.390000+08:00","text":"派查的時間是113年4月9號。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:36.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:39.373000+08:00","text":"派查時間是113年4月9號，當時就已經成立了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:39.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:39.573000+08:00","text":"對，兩年前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:39.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:40.113000+08:00","text":"兩年前？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:40.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.114000+08:00","text":"所以你們準備……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.214000+08:00","text":"現在還在調查中。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.655000+08:00","text":"整個的調查機關呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.875000+08:00","text":"調查機關……","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:41.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:42.435000+08:00","text":"被調查機關或是當時的相關機關？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:42.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:42.876000+08:00","text":"教育部以及臺大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:55.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:56.574000+08:00","text":"教育部以及臺大？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:36:57.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:36:59.415000+08:00","text":"所以從113年到現在？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:01.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:07.360000+08:00","text":"監察委員現在才要開始認真去辦案，還是現在已經準備要結案了？","quality":0.481},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:08.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:14.775000+08:00","text":"我沒辦法替委員回答這個問題，就是他最後的結論等等，這還是屬於調查的內容。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:14.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:29.264000+08:00","text":"總之這個案子監察院似乎也沒有說得很清楚，所以外界會誤以為你們是2026年才正式啟動調查，如果在113年就立案了，為什麼要拖這麼久？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:31.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:37.146000+08:00","text":"林智堅抄襲的案子在法院都已經判決定讞了，然後他們事後是和解嘛！","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:37.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:42.167000+08:00","text":"林智堅自己的論文被撤銷，他也沒有提起訴訟啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:42.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:43.968000+08:00","text":"他有向臺大提起訴訟嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:43.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:44.708000+08:00","text":"有去告臺大嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:44.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:46.289000+08:00","text":"這我不了解。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:46.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:47.109000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:47.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:19.179000+08:00","text":"所以對大家來講，大家會覺得這個案子都已經確定了，突然間現在監察院又說要來調查臺大、調查教育部，這真的蠻奇怪的，這就是為什麼大家會質疑這一屆的監察委員是不是都是選擇性辦案，而且看起來是要在卸任之前再給民進黨政府交一份成績單嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:19.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:30.014000+08:00","text":"麻煩請你們回去記得轉告監察委員們，希望這個案子有什麼結果就趕快提出來，不要再拖拖拉拉，謝謝。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:30.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:32.514000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員指教。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:32.814000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:34.242571+08:00","text":"謝謝翁委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:34.542571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:40.828286+08:00","text":"秘書長，論文案這麼認真做，棒球場案要趕快加快效率。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:41.128286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:52.842571+08:00","text":"我們先確定議事錄，由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢，但是還沒有確定，所以現在我們就來確定議事錄。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:53.142571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:59.142571+08:00","text":"請問各位委員，上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:59.442571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:02.871143+08:00","text":"（無）沒有，議事錄確定，謝謝大家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:03.171143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:06.599714+08:00","text":"接下來有請張雅琳委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}