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我們還是把剛才委員所指教的那些專案會編列在我們今年的預算裡面所以還是要請委員能夠指示那個當然你要放進去啦你像比如說國際人權的部分你如果被刪掉的話在本席看起來啊這個都是製斷我們整個外交的一個管道是的那個就太可惜了就是說這個人權外交裡面其實對一個國家來講的話它不是只有一個選項它是台灣我們整個在國際上生存的一個戰略"},{"start":264.084,"end":267.357,"text":"那 我要求啦 秘書長 我要求的就是說你們應該喔"},{"start":270.011,"end":297.743,"text":"多去談一下整個國際會議的一個重要性避免像去年一樣就誤刪掉整個國際人權的一個預算這個是很重要的一件事情啦那但是呢每一年上億的預算裡面大家也會去看啦像譬如說你研究啊四千萬你訪查三千五百萬推廣這個如果因為百分之九十六八被刪掉那其實是一個假設的一個增加也就是說你們的錢要開一堆去"},{"start":299.384,"end":319.805,"text":"那個制度裡面要有成效那個才是一個重點啦那我直接問啦就是說你們到底有改多少制度你們修多少案件你政策改了幾項這個其實還是要有一個數字還是要有一個成果啦成果應該要去做一個呈現啦那你像譬如說"},{"start":324.664,"end":347.494,"text":"因為時間也沒有很多啦我要特別來針對一題就是說你們出國巡查的部分出國巡查本來我們也在法庭的職長嘛你們不是只看國內而已國外你自己本身要去看你找到你們到底有沒有實質的一個成果也就是你的預算的一個重點裡面你巡查加考察這1700幾萬嘛這1700幾萬出國禮費是265"},{"start":354.269,"end":368.674,"text":"民眾也會想問啦不是只有立法院會想問啦你們去那裡到底是做什麼有抓到問題嗎或是說你們去後 當年這樣去後有沒有去對外國人提出一些糾正看法"},{"start":369.585,"end":374.127,"text":"我們做幹務員也很想走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走"},{"start":397.699,"end":406.141,"text":"我跟妳講 在立法院的立場喔你如果沒有看出一些東西來喔立法院就會認為你就是去觀光啦 去旅遊啦不過我認同委員我支持 我跟你講我們不是 你們巡查 你們監督的不是只有行政部門不是只有國內 國外有很多外館那個去看 法定職責沒有人會講什麼可是立法院會比較在意的是說你有說出什麼話沒有你說沒有東西我就跟妳說 嘿 你們去那邊 去法國 去德國"},{"start":427.205,"end":436.729,"text":"有好算嗎 大家也想這個 一定要想這個但是那個還是有另外一個通案線的報告那一趟 還是有通案線報告但是巡查的內容 你有沒有辦法提出秘書長 我講很簡單就好那個通案線電話報告有 有書面你說兩行我聽就好 說你們去外面去巡查之後你們感覺說 喔"},{"start":446.132,"end":450.253,"text":"你都無視於我監察院的存在,我一趟出門就抓出這麼多缺失來糾正你們你也找兩行來說服立法院以2013年為例,有一個出國考察的通案性調查報告是犯罪及被害人程序參與權及保護"},{"start":468.999,"end":487.395,"text":"我是說你們出國的部分啊對啊 現在是出國的部分到哪一個國家發現這個問題啊這個是日本然後另外有一個政府辦理古蹟歷史建築及考古遺址等文化資產保存人才培育現況之困境與探討這也是去日本考察我國農業綠能發展與現況這到哪裡"},{"start":491.544,"end":503.139,"text":"我知道哪裡沒有啦 我說巡查啦你不要只說考察啦 考察怎麼去討論啦不是 巡查跟他的這個通案研究是放在一起的是嘛 我就知道嘛 我就跟你講說你們的法定職長還有去巡查嘛那為什麼要巡查"},{"start":506.724,"end":511.368,"text":"巡查的內容確實在過去是疏於做這個要改進我跟你講你既然編了這個錢監察委員監察院立功在外館到我們國外的不是境內的到國外的這些行政機關你們有法定職長你們可以去看你們可以去做巡查你們也去了既然是巡查有巡就要查查了以後你至少要讓國人知道說我這個巡查去"},{"start":533.908,"end":537.471,"text":"我是有發揮功能的我第一個想法是什麼我會把委員的旨帶回去大力的建議我們的委員會以後要做這兩件事你如果巡查了兩件回來委員跟我就認為說有功能"},{"start":554.929,"end":582.74,"text":"你都去巡查回來了沒有啦我包在裡面裡面有講我就問你兩樣就好啦有巡查出什麼沒有啊我們的預算遠大過這個數字所以有其他的我們幾乎每一個都有報告啦就只有你體脂災的這個巡查確實疏於報告但是有附帶了一個去國外通案當場的通案性研究的一個報告現在連立法院立法院如果要出國考察考察回來"},{"start":583.22,"end":586.842,"text":"假的你也要假到嚇到人家臉紅 紅感覚你知道嗎啊你這個監察委員 你們也編了預算去巡查啦沒有看到東西 你們說包在什麼地方我真正問你 巡查出什麼兩件就好 讓國人有感的發揮你的功能的話 立法院不是不能支持喔我們也不可能"},{"start":603.85,"end":616.541,"text":"讓整個行政部門在海外的讓他們都無視於好像是說他們愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣你的監察權可以去發揮功能的你們就完全沒有去做到這也不對啊我們會大力建議這件事情我這樣跟你們建議啦巡查你們就弄出一塊讓你真正有成績這本隊就你們應該做的事了好不好是"},{"start":624.628,"end":639.7,"text":"好不好那預算的部分我們也期待啦人權委員會喔這個可以增加整個台灣在國際上的一個能見度的要盡力的去做一個說明啦今天台灣應該用台價存很多啦應該剩下的就是人權這一塊那這一塊的話我也不認為說在野黨會給你亂砍啦因為這一些對你來講的話你像我們歐盟專委來講的話他也非常有人權概念的啦但是問題是你要講出他那個必要性在什麼地方好不好"},{"start":654.552,"end":673.498,"text":"這個真的是台灣至於普世價值我們是踐行的在各國來比是最好的一個榜樣之一啦所以這樣的一個榜樣這樣子的一個榮耀應該讓全世界知悉讓他們也成為台灣的好朋友我們攜手推動台灣的民主以及普世人權的價值好 努力說明 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:15:19.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:15:21.715000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請監察院黃秘書長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:15:21.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:15:21.916000+08:00","text":"有請黃秘書長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:15:21.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:15:22.916000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:15:21.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:15:45.161000+08:00","text":"秘書長，你應該也聽到了立法院對你們監察院的意見，其實聽起來，大家對你們期待很多，可是有時候聽起來你會覺得我們像神經病一樣，把你們的預算砍了將近百分之百，砍了百分之九十六點多，要求你們做的事情也很多！","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:15:46.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:16:23.103000+08:00","text":"當然，因為整個政治的局勢，以目前結構來看的話，各個政黨對監察院看法會有所不同，但是因為今天是整個預算的詢答，我想簡單請教秘書長，去年這樣子近乎歸零的預算刪減，對於你們今年人權政策的規劃，因為你們怕沒錢、怕預算不通過，會不會產生你們自己本身對監察院這樣一個大院，也產生了在預算編列的時候起了寒蟬效應？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:16:23.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:16:33.969000+08:00","text":"你們想反正不會過，所以你們各個單位在編列預算的時候擔心可能會被亂刪而變得保守，甚至於自我限縮？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:16:33.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:16:34.929000+08:00","text":"我要先請教你的看法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:16:36.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:16:47.726000+08:00","text":"自我限縮是監察院絕對不會做的事情，就是說我們還是在大院大聲疾呼、極力爭取，也要請大院各委員能夠在審查之後通過相關預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:16:52.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:17:22.882000+08:00","text":"至於我們很多預算，包括人權相關預算，確實在去年刪除之後造成重大影響，尤其在國際交流上面，因為人權會以及監察院在國際交流上做了許多突破，跟國際監察相關組織做非常多聯繫，也成為臺灣外交非常具有貢獻的一環，所以我覺得這應該也影響到整個人權以及監察的行使。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:17:23.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:17:47.910000+08:00","text":"當然在許多案件上，造成調查或者內部相關人員工作上的一些困難，包括沒有預算，所以環境也遭受到影響，這點也要請大院能夠體認到監察院目前所碰到的困難，能夠在預算上面惠予協助。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:17:48.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:17:49.311000+08:00","text":"這個都環環相扣！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:17:50.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:18:03.499000+08:00","text":"立法院在整個憲政結構各個機關裡面，我們也擔綱監督的責任，同樣，監察院對於行政部門又有監督的責任。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:18:05.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:18:24.093000+08:00","text":"以去年來看，國際監察組織澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會對臺灣來講，用中華民國去參與，在國際上是很重要的一個平臺；還好，去年我們臨時又把它補上去了，還好有把它補上去！","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:18:24.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:18:56.017000+08:00","text":"我要講的就是去年國家人權委員會預算刪了將近97%，預算幾乎歸零，有太多項計畫其實就是直接停擺了，像心理社會障礙者的就業權、家事移工的勞權、校園師生對暴力機制、強迫遷徙等重要專案，到最後都讓整個人權工作停擺。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:18:56.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:01.660000+08:00","text":"我要請教秘書長的就是在今年編列的預算裡面，這些有沒有再放進去？有。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:02.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:08.502000+08:00","text":"各單位會不會因為被刪減變成自我閹割，然後保守編列？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:08.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:09.143000+08:00","text":"你們今年會這樣嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:09.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:18.349000+08:00","text":"我們不會，我們還是會把剛才委員所指教的那些專案編列在今年的預算裡面，所以還是要請委員能夠支持。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:18.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:28.375000+08:00","text":"那個當然要放進去，比如國際人權的部分如果刪掉的話，在本席看起來這個都是自斷我們外交的管道。是的！","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:28.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:29.716000+08:00","text":"那就太可惜了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:31.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:39.243000+08:00","text":"人權外交對一個國家來講，它不只是一個選項，而是我們臺灣在國際上生存的一個戰略。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:41.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:49.332000+08:00","text":"秘書長，我要求的是你們應該多談國際會議的重要性。是。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:50.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:54.095000+08:00","text":"避免像去年一樣誤刪掉國際人權的預算。好的。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:54.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:19:55.955000+08:00","text":"這是很重要的一件事情。對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:19:56.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:20:19.468000+08:00","text":"但是每一年上億的預算裡面，大家也會去看，比如說研究經費4,000萬、訪查經費3,500萬，然後還有推廣經費，如果因為96%被刪掉，那其實是一個假設的增加，也就是說，你們的錢要花到哪裡去，即在那個制度裡面要有一定的成效，這才是一個重點。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:20:20.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:20:24.533000+08:00","text":"我就直接問，你們到底改了多少制度？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:20:25.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:20:26.475000+08:00","text":"你們糾正了多少案件？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:20:27.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:20:29.718000+08:00","text":"政策改了幾項？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:20:29.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:20:32.381000+08:00","text":"這其實還是要有一個數字、還是要有一個成果……有……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:20:33.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:20:59.312000+08:00","text":"成果的部分應該要去做一個簡單的呈現，因為時間也沒有很多，所以我要特別來針對這一題來討論，就是你們出國巡察的部分，這本來是你們法定的職掌，而且你們不是只有看國內而已，國外你們也要去看，這個部分你們到底有沒有一個實質的成果？","quality":0.716},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:00.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:15.491000+08:00","text":"在你的預算裡面，巡察加考察有一千七百多萬，出國旅費是265萬，不是只有立法院想問，民眾也會想問，請問你們去那裡到底做了什麼？","quality":0.66},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:15.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:16.691000+08:00","text":"有抓出什麼問題嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:17.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:24.654000+08:00","text":"你們每年去了之後，有沒有對外館提出一些糾正、看法？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:24.654000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:31.915250+08:00","text":"摸蜆仔兼洗褲，如果我當監委，我也很想走一走、玩一玩，這是一定的嘛！","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:31.915250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:39.176500+08:00","text":"不是這個意思，能不能讓我稍微解釋一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:39.176500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:46.437750+08:00","text":"出國巡察的費用，在過去幾年的進行中，都是併在一個通案性的國外調查，然後回國之後有寫調查報告，但是在巡察的內容，過去確實疏於提出相關的報告，但是確實也有一個報告出來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:46.437750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:53.699000+08:00","text":"但是你們有看出一些東西來嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:53.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:59.320000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，就立法院的立場，你如果沒有看出一些東西來，立法院就會認為你是去觀光、去旅遊。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:59.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:21:59.520000+08:00","text":"不過我認同委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:21:59.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:01.501000+08:00","text":"不、不、不，我支持，我跟你講，你們的巡察，還有你們的監督不是只有行政部門、不是只有國內，國外有很多外館，你們去看一下，那是法定職責，沒有人會講什麼，可是立法院比較在意的是，你有看出什麼了嗎？","quality":0.79},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:01.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:24.125000+08:00","text":"若你沒看出什麼東西，我就會跟你說，這趟去法國、去德國好玩嗎？","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:24.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:25.606000+08:00","text":"大家也一定會這樣想啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:25.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:28.467000+08:00","text":"但那一趟還是有另外一個通案性的報告……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:31.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:31.348000+08:00","text":"你有沒有辦法提出……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:31.348000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:32.348000+08:00","text":"但是巡察的內容……但通案性報告是有的，且有書面。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:31.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:44.713000+08:00","text":"秘書長，很簡單，你舉兩項給我聽就好，就是你們去外面巡察，之後讓你們覺得，抓到了，他們都無視於監察院的存在，但你出門一趟就抓出這麼多缺失來糾正他們，你也找出個兩項來說服立法院啊！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:44.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:45.493000+08:00","text":"以113年為例，有一個出國考察的通案性調查報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:45.493000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:46.493000+08:00","text":"去哪裡？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:22:45.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:22:46.253000+08:00","text":"這是關於犯罪及被害人程序參與權保護，這個是去……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:04.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:06.881000+08:00","text":"我是說你們出國的部分。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:07.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:07.842000+08:00","text":"現在是談出國的部分。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:08.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:11.845000+08:00","text":"是到哪一個國家發現了這個問題？日本。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:12.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:21.994000+08:00","text":"另外還有一個是政府辦理古蹟、歷史建築及考古遺址等文化資產保存、人才培育現況與困境之探討，這也是去日本考察。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:22.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:23.155000+08:00","text":"還有我國農業綠能發展與現況……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:28.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:28.125000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:28.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:31.069000+08:00","text":"我是說巡察，你不要只提考察啦！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:31.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:32.190000+08:00","text":"考察就像出去玩一樣。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:32.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:37.037000+08:00","text":"不是，巡察跟他的通案研究是放在一起的。是嘛！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:37.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:37.737000+08:00","text":"我就知道嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:37.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:39.099000+08:00","text":"我就跟你講，你們的法定職掌還包括巡察，但為什麼要巡察？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:42.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:44.265000+08:00","text":"巡察的內容確實過去是疏於做……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:44.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:44.486000+08:00","text":"這個要改進，我跟你講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:44.486000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:23:45.486000+08:00","text":"我認同……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:23:44.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:11.889000+08:00","text":"你既然編了這個錢，監察委員到了外館，不是境內的，而是到我們在國外的行政機關，基於你們的法定職掌，你們可以去看，你們可以去巡察，你們也去了，既然是巡察，有巡就要察，察了以後你至少要讓國人知道這個巡察是有發揮功能的，不然這樣混在一起後，我的第一個想法是什麼？","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:11.889000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:12.889000+08:00","text":"那都是去玩的，不要騙我了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:11.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:12.810000+08:00","text":"我會把委員的指摘帶回去大力的建議我們的委員會，以後要做這樣的……是啊！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:12.810000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:13.810000+08:00","text":"你就做個兩項給我們看嘛！","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:13.810000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:14.810000+08:00","text":"翁委員，我這樣講有道理嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:12.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:36.491000+08:00","text":"如果你巡察後，看出兩樣來了，翁委員跟我都認為你有功能，支持你們，而不是去巡察回來之後就沒有了，然後說都有包在裡面、裡面有講啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:36.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:39.212000+08:00","text":"我就問你兩樣就好了，有巡察出什麼嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:39.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:54.518000+08:00","text":"我們的預算遠大過這個數字，所以其他的部分，我們每一個幾乎都有報告，就只有你指摘的巡察，確實是疏於報告，但是有附帶的一個去國外當場的通案性研究報告，我們會把這個加進去。","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:55.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:24:59.520000+08:00","text":"如果是立法院出國考察，考察回來後就算是裝的，也要寫一篇報告出來，給人家感覺你有做事。","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:24:59.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:25:00.601000+08:00","text":"你們編了預算讓監察委員去巡察，但沒有讓我們看到東西，雖然你們說包在什麼地方等等。","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:25:00.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:25:30.680000+08:00","text":"我問你真正巡察出什麼，舉出兩件就好，讓國人有感、覺得有發揮你的功能，立法院不是不能支持，我們也不可能讓海外的行政部門無視於規定，好像是他們愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣，本來你的監察權是可以去發揮功能的，結果你們完全沒有做到，這也不對啊！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:25:30.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:25:31.080000+08:00","text":"我們會大力建議這件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:25:31.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:25:32.521000+08:00","text":"我建議你，巡察的部分你們就弄出一塊，顯示你真正有成績，畢竟這本來就是你們應該做的事情，好不好？是。","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:25:41.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:25:55.680000+08:00","text":"預算的部分，我們也期待人權委員會可以增加臺灣在國際上的能見度，要盡力的去做一個說明，監察院應該已經被砍很多了，剩下的就是人權這一塊，這一塊我也不認為在野黨會對你亂砍，因為對大家來講，以翁召委來講，他也非常有人權概念的，但問題是你要講出它的必要性在什麼地方，好不好？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:26:10.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:26:28.558000+08:00","text":"這真的是臺灣之於普世價值，與各國來比，我們是整個踐行上最好的榜樣，所以這樣的榜樣、這樣的榮耀，應該讓全世界知悉，讓他們也成為臺灣的好朋友，我們攜手推動臺灣的民主以及普世人權的價值。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-04-29T10:26:28.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T10:26:29.498000+08:00","text":"好，努力說明。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:26:29.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:26:57.426571+08:00","text":"謝謝剛剛莊召委有很多非常好的建議，他對於監察院真的是愛之深、責之切，基本上裡面提到的幾個問題，包含巡察、考察還有調查這些業務，要把它分開來寫，否則的話，你們現在整個都混在一起，大家會認為你們有必要到國外去考察嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:26:57.726571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:27:05.155143+08:00","text":"其實如果到國外巡察一些外館，可能更符合你們監察權的行使。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:27:05.455143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:27:23.455143+08:00","text":"我還記得去年審查監察院相關預算時，當時就說要到日本北海道去考察黑熊保育，那時候也是引起了很多的爭論，就是有必要到日本去做這樣的考察嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:27:23.755143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:27:55.183714+08:00","text":"總之，在你們115年度預算的說明裡面，就這一塊的確是不清不楚，如果可以的話，我也希望監察院能夠提出一個比較清楚的補充說明，然後未來你們如果有考察，包括考察計畫是什麼、要到哪邊去巡察等等，把這些資料提供給我們，我們才方便去做更具體、詳盡的審查，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:27:55.483714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:28:00.340857+08:00","text":"好，就麻煩在一個禮拜內提供給我們，好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-29T10:28:00.640857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:28:01.783714+08:00","text":"一個禮拜。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:28:02.083714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:28:07.798000+08:00","text":"好，一個禮拜，下禮拜麻煩提供給我們相關的資料。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T10:28:08.098000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T10:28:11.812286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請許宇甄委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}