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國庫署陳署長委員好部長 署長辛苦了這個這六七年來我們國家我們國民的儲蓄"},{"start":31.383,"end":41.107,"text":"金額儲蓄率一直逐年提高而且是大幅度的提高這一點非常好因為這展現了我們台灣人民這麼"},{"start":44.301,"end":70.436,"text":"勤勞又節儉那儲蓄的金額我相信你很清楚從民國110年我們的儲蓄餘額從9兆5000億一次到今年預估是12兆7000億那麼在國內的投資額的這個部分也增加啦增加從5兆9一次增加到今年也是大概7兆6"},{"start":73.388,"end":84.061,"text":"可是這麼一扣除以後我們國內儲蓄率更是高達全世界最高"},{"start":85.543,"end":109.067,"text":"就這麼相扣之後的儲蓄的餘額我們現在高達5兆以高達17.84%這大概就是全世界最高啦都高過美國 德國 日本 韓國像美國甚至是負數德國4.2% 日本2.1% 韓國1.8%"},{"start":112.165,"end":131.244,"text":"我國在2022年的時候14.8% 已經是最高但是今年會更高 會來到大概17.4%這是首屈一指那這當然是喜訊 同時也是警訊為什麼呢 因為"},{"start":135.694,"end":161.805,"text":"表示說我們國內儲蓄餘額有這麼高並沒有充分的投入到我們國家的建設讓政府來運用這一點是非常可惜的地方那麼我記得前年部長我們一上來的時候我當時就跟你提兩件大事一個就是我們受險我們受險35兆"},{"start":163.846,"end":192.686,"text":"的餘額那麼有70%是在海外購買債券基金投資到海外我當時就說這有戰爭跟匯率的風險你也馬上同意而且你也積極下去做這個部分我們到今年我看了一下你們有降到67.48%這個部分是很好但是第二大的就是我們這一個部分就是我們國民的儲蓄率"},{"start":193.726,"end":204.795,"text":"儲蓄額的這個餘額儲蓄率竟然高達17.4那麼這個部分我為什麼說會影響到我們國內的建設資金的籌措比方說我認為應該將這些國內我們人民儲蓄的餘額可以導向"},{"start":220.493,"end":229.042,"text":"這個國家的建設那就是由我們財政部下去主導來發行各類有自償性的公債"},{"start":230.767,"end":254.273,"text":"自償性的債券這好多優點啊這不但可以降低融資成本而且等於我們籌措了另外籌措了這些籌資的管道嘛多了這個管道更何況我們公共建設如果不從民間的發行債券向民間籌集資金的話"},{"start":256.033,"end":276.183,"text":"我們向銀行去融資的話部長我相信你很清楚公共建設向銀行融資我就舉向我們公營行庫好了我們百分之百最大的公營行庫台銀那麼棒的台銀我們政府向台銀借款公共建設平均2.5%2.5%我相信這你很清楚嘛那"},{"start":286.158,"end":305.926,"text":"反而我們發行債券的話 像111年高鐵 聯外道路 跟台銀借款2.34人家他們發行債券的利率0.75 航空城的用地 更是不用講112年第一期1.25%債券"},{"start":313.601,"end":342.22,"text":"跟台灣銀行貸款2.57那第二級債券1.625%結果跟台銀貸款2.4需要到2.4所以我們放著民間大家儲蓄餘額來參與公共建設放棄這些不用不去努力反而我四個字形容便於形式嘛"},{"start":343.792,"end":350.323,"text":"變異形式 就是說 啊 反正是搞錢沒搞 自己人搬就有啊 自己人搬"},{"start":352.079,"end":377.819,"text":"如果說一時平常你們沒有籌措沒有預備一時半個融資周轉那就算了結果不是變成長期的依賴那我剛講台銀是好的喔百分之百關股的他當然或多或少都必須看政府的情面那如果像民營銀行要去貸款的話天啊"},{"start":379.008,"end":401.498,"text":"我看你至少要加1%以上才可能接得到所以我認為放著我們國內我們勤勞的台灣人我們努力所得去儲蓄的這些餘額放著不用那放著那些錢不但閒置啊甚至被"},{"start":403.317,"end":430.953,"text":"這些比較惡質的金融行業去利用啊不是嗎像竹林公司啊錢銀行收走那融資公司再向銀行大筆的借款借幾千億去放高利貸這都是不對的所以我不曉得部長你們在這個部分有沒有加強"},{"start":434.467,"end":445.282,"text":"謝謝委員 委員很多次都做這方面的一個督促我們做這個所以財政部也積極的在推動這個非營業特種基金如果它具有自償性的話公共建設來發行一類公債那也跟委員報告110年到114年有發"},{"start":450.629,"end":466.073,"text":"已經發行了八檔 金額有1494億那在今年一月也發行了一個國立金門大學的銷務基金的一個公債對 那個很棒 教育部的這個很棒喔教育部的這個永續債 這個非常棒國內首屈一指 教育部的第一筆"},{"start":472.714,"end":496.159,"text":"也才四億元耶那是針對金門大學的宿舍改建這個部分那四月份有三百億元的一類公債那交通部後續還有五檔一類公債要發行就像你講的嘛我認為這個金額太低啦同名國一百一十年的六百二十億累積到今年才一千四百九十四億耶部長"},{"start":499.696,"end":518.015,"text":"就以你的估計 你認為說我們到現在債務餘額我們是高達六兆八千五百億六兆八千五百億結果我們捨棄民間七兆八的儲蓄餘額不拿來周轉"},{"start":519.724,"end":522.805,"text":"你不覺得這很奇怪嗎我們的債務實際數是5兆9千億 實際數5兆9千億你說5兆9千億你是說我們的債務餘額就對了實際上是5兆9千億實際是這樣 但是你預估你給我的預估說到今年底嘛那是預算數那是預算數 對那也跟五年報告"},{"start":544.355,"end":550.118,"text":"我就當你五兆九好了五兆九結果你捨棄民間有那麼龐大而且隨時願意來加入我們國家的建設他們都願意啊你看你從這些債券發行的利率"},{"start":563.727,"end":578.732,"text":"不到2% 人家1.4 1.5 民間因為民間對我們國家對政府有信心所以他寧願來買嘛他寧願來購買他不但覺得這不但可以保持有保障"},{"start":579.432,"end":592.027,"text":"而且他們覺得有榮譽感有榮譽感買國家的債券國家公債有參與國家建設人民有榮譽感人民對國家有信心不是這樣嗎所以你剛剛講的1498億我知道"},{"start":597.566,"end":604.593,"text":"你們努力之下可是我覺得金額差太遠了而且這個金額裡面我就講今年發行的七期裡面這七期裡面有六期全部人家都是交通部交通的建設"},{"start":616.785,"end":621.932,"text":"當然交通建設比較顯眼和外顯我去發現金額也大但是其他各部會還有我們國家掌控這103種基金基金從行政院的"},{"start":632.226,"end":658.72,"text":"國家發展基金開始我們一路細數下來營建建設基金包括法務部包括教育部包括我們財政部本身各部會相關的像衛生福利部他們需要的長照等等那這一些有這麼多還有我最後主席不好意思我最後跟部長提醒一下我們中央政府不做"},{"start":659.62,"end":663.148,"text":"地方政府人家都努力在做人類你像高雄"},{"start":664.687,"end":684.441,"text":"高雄永續債券已經發行而且成果非常好那今年啊高雄以外這個桃園也取而效仿桃園現在也跟進今年光是光是高雄跟桃園的他們已經擴大規模到永續債券高達303億之多那"},{"start":690.665,"end":717.435,"text":"對 地方政府反而帶頭要引領我們中央政府效法所以我們中央政府是不得不做應該要做 因為中央政府應該要做各地方政府的這個模範才對嘛齁我最後跟你講一句很重要的這些債務 你剛剛講的我說618 你說我說6到8 你說5到9最重要我們發行債券可以不計入"},{"start":719.395,"end":742.348,"text":"這些公共債務的金額有負債的餘額嘛因為它是具有自償性的它有自償性嘛所以這一點可以改善我們政府的財務結構好不好我們持續積極推動一定要積極下去做我下次質詢就要看看你有沒有新的計畫新的進度今年我們會交通部還有很多可以推動的好啦 用書面已經超過很久了謝謝"},{"start":744.129,"end":755.315,"text":"謝謝王委員下一位質詢委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在請楊瓊英委員質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}