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{"start":197.018,"end":215.055,"text":"跟委員報告我個人跟委員的立場一樣我們一定是料敵從寬所以第一時間我們一定絕對就要去確認這是否真實的是一個意外那背後是不是有"},{"start":216.375,"end":241.224,"text":"國安的疑慮那這個部分的SOP我們有建立起來甚至於我們也會從水下去看不只是說船員的清巡船長的清巡我們也會從水下去看那整個過程也會是在介護的過程之中來執行我們甚至於要看你在施工的過程當中你有沒有放什麼科學儀器在做調研等等的"},{"start":241.824,"end":267.057,"text":"那這一次的話 海流的關係 所以海嵐有一些移動那相關的細節 相關的細節 航港局都有應變中心中華電信也有在裡面 海保署 海委會 海巡也都有在裡面那詳細的開會如果還有更值得跟委員報告的細節的部分我們處長跟委員做說明有需不需要我"},{"start":268.083,"end":284.178,"text":"我知道如果可以讓我們知道的資料給我就好了不用在這邊我在這邊我今天特別問這個我認為這是一個很不尋常的案例我們要以這個不尋常的案例"},{"start":288.328,"end":312.428,"text":"去預防未來有沒有這種情況會繼續發生對不對他也可能有很多的狀況然後今天在東嶺明天在哪裡對不對船要擱淺應該也很容易處理啊對不對這個這個署長在海染區的話他的移除的計畫確實更精密的審議這個除了更精密審議之後要不然署長"},{"start":317.438,"end":335.951,"text":"我請問一下,如果你要讓一艘船故意擱淺,困不困難?不困難啊對嘛,我們擔心的是這個事情嘛,對不對?我可能每天都有船擱淺啊,啊你是不是批分命?然後每天船擱淺,然後就是都這樣子"},{"start":337.475,"end":358.5,"text":"那我跟你講幾次之後全部都摸透了關於有幾條電線電纜我擔心的是這個而且又這麼簡單的一個移除工作竟然會把海纜給切斷這個很奇怪很不尋常啊這個一般的施工不可能"},{"start":360.301,"end":374.97,"text":"不精確到這種程度我今天在這邊就是要提醒我們海委會跟我們所有相關部會這個東西我們不能把它當成一般的施工然後造成損害我希望你們要有這種想法"},{"start":376.291,"end":402.329,"text":"好 所以我們第一時間船長就送辦 一定就把他送辦這個一定要送辦嘛那跟委員報告 就是所有的海嵐的案件現在檢方 院方處理的經驗都已經有好幾起案件那這些案件的處理當中有故意的 我們就重罰但是如果是意外的 我們就還他清白那這些案例都已經有了那有一些是經過和解的 那有一些是經過就"},{"start":404.41,"end":426.882,"text":"沒有證據顯示是他的然後就請回的就讓他回去的大概我們也會扣留了像不久兩個月前有一個案我們也扣留了十幾天然後才檢察官來放行這檢察官他們會時間的問題反正我說的重點主委你們都知道嘛就是這樣去處理我希望你們是這樣這個是為了整個台灣的安全"},{"start":429.423,"end":454.596,"text":"我來以後發現這種狀況就是說離島尤其是金門馬祖一發生的相關的海事工程的需要都是用對方都是用對方的工程團隊來處理我也是疑慮甚深但是基於整個產業結構目前還沒有辦法解套所以我就把海巡的警戒的SOP大幅度的升級反正這個我的提醒就是這樣我最後"},{"start":457.402,"end":462.134,"text":"5秒鐘我們現在造了很多艦艇那我們停泊的地方到底夠不夠啊"},{"start":462.709,"end":483.734,"text":"我們現在有前瞻的部署,樂觀,那署長更樂觀,署長說夠,那我說樂觀對,因為國防部也幫忙了,地方政府也幫忙了,然後經濟部也幫忙了如果夠就好啦,我只是擔心你現在很多,我怕你船沒有地方停鄧委員報告非常樂觀,然後署長更樂觀,謝謝謝謝張宏祿委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:19+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:25.536000+08:00","text":"我請主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:25.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:32.072000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:32.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:37:51.512000+08:00","text":"主委，上個月（3月）30日在東引，有一個中國籍的工作平台船處理中國籍漁船擱淺的時候，不慎破壞臺馬3號海纜，這個事情主委應該知道嘛。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:37:51.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:14.597000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第一時間我們絕對會去了解這是不是真正是意外、背後有沒有灰色襲擾的疑慮，第一時間我們有一個SOP會查證這個事情；第二，對於事件的應處，首先航港局會出來主導、成立應變小組。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:14.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:23.743000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，昨天晚上開過第20次應變會議了，這個個案確實相當複雜。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:23.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:38:39.328000+08:00","text":"也就是說，擱淺了以後在移除的過程傷到我們的海纜，移除到一半的時候，船長就被我們送法辦，移送法辦以後，工程整個就停滯到昨天晚上。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:38:39.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:02.597000+08:00","text":"昨天晚上的時候、第20次應變會議以後，已經經過檢察官的許可，我們海巡已經用海巡艇戒護這個船長，船長本來在檢察官的手上，我們也戒護了船長，然後允許他去船上做適當的應處。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:02.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:09.080000+08:00","text":"基本上，停滯的狀況我們希望要開始有進度，到目前為止，昨天晚上是這樣的進度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:09.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:28.952000+08:00","text":"主委，我想要問的就是說，雖然施工的核可單位是航港局，但我不知道報導是否屬實，現在雖然也是在偵查當中，因為報導上面是寫說，他是要用吊掛施工，結果現場變成切割施工，真的有這回事嗎？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:32.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:47.128000+08:00","text":"他切割成兩段，但是在這個過程當中，他的工法有沒有改變、計畫有沒有改變，那個是後來改變沒有錯，但是這個過程一定都會經過審核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:47.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:48.649000+08:00","text":"是不是我們參與會議的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:48.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:39:58.236000+08:00","text":"我的意思是這樣，我個人存在滿大的疑慮，這個我不相信啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:39:59.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:08.601000+08:00","text":"如果以在臺灣的施工標準，我相信中華電信等等所有施工單位應該都有，比如說海纜的圖……","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:08.601000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:12.403000+08:00","text":"主要是離島的量能問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:12.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:12.783000+08:00","text":"不是、不是。國內……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:13.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:27.251000+08:00","text":"我們在施工、核准或什麼的，電纜等等大概在哪裡，其實我們都有施工圖可以看，我認為都會有這些，結果竟然還這樣。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:27.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:31.995000+08:00","text":"你說你要切割船，你切割到那麼深，我一直認為這個背後是這麼單純嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:36.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:40:56.756000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我個人跟委員的立場一樣，我們一定是料敵從寬，所以第一時間我們一定、絕對要去確認這是否真實的是一個意外，背後是不是有國安的疑慮？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:40:57.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:19.964000+08:00","text":"我們有建立這個部分的SOP，甚至於我們也會從水下去看，不只是對船員的親詢、船長的親詢，我們也會從水下去看，整個過程也會是在戒護之中執行，我們甚至於要看在施工的過程當中有沒有放什麼科學儀器在做調研等等。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:21.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:45.396000+08:00","text":"這一次因為海流的關係所以海纜有一些移動，對於相關的細節，航港局有應變中心，中華電信也有在裡面，海保署、海委會、海巡也都有在裡面，詳細的開會情形，如果還有更值得跟委員報告的細節，我們處長可以跟委員說明，請問需不需要？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:47.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:52.568000+08:00","text":"如果可以讓我們知道的，你把資料給我就好了。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:52.568000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:41:54.930000+08:00","text":"好，我們給委員書面報告。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:41:54.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:01.016000+08:00","text":"我今天特別問這個問題，就是因為我認為這是一個很不尋常的案例，我們要以……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:01.016000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:02.137000+08:00","text":"我們了解委員的顧慮。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:02.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:13.513000+08:00","text":"我們要以這個不尋常的案例去預防未來有沒有繼續發生這種情況，對不對？是。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:14.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:19.518000+08:00","text":"也可能有很多的狀況，像今天在東引、明天在哪裡，對不對？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:19.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:25.884000+08:00","text":"船隻擱淺應該也很容易處理，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:25.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:26.064000+08:00","text":"署長應該……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:26.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:29.226000+08:00","text":"在海纜區裡面它的移除計畫確實要做更精密的審議。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:29.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:30.708000+08:00","text":"這個要做更精密的審議。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:36.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:41.462000+08:00","text":"我請問署長，如果你故意要讓一艘船擱淺，這個困不困難？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:41.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:43.343000+08:00","text":"不困難。什麼？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:43.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:43.763000+08:00","text":"不困難。對嘛！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:44.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:47.906000+08:00","text":"我們擔心的就是這個事情，對不對？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:48.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:49.567000+08:00","text":"可能每天都有船擱淺啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:51.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:42:52.089000+08:00","text":"這樣你是不是會疲於奔命？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:42:53.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:04.977000+08:00","text":"每天有船擱淺，然後就是都這樣子，我跟你講，在幾次之後就全部都摸透了，知道你有幾條電線、電纜，我擔心的是這個。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:04.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:14.199000+08:00","text":"而且這又是這麼簡單的移除工作，竟然會把海纜給切斷了，這個很奇怪、很不尋常啊！","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:15.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:21.162000+08:00","text":"一般的施工不可能不精確到這種程度啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:21.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:33.950000+08:00","text":"我今天在這邊就是要提醒海委會跟所有相關的部會，對這個東西我們不能把它當成一般的施工然後造成損害，我希望你們要有這種想法啦！","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:35.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:39.174000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們第一時間就把船長送辦，一定就把他送辦。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:39.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:39.954000+08:00","text":"這個一定要送辦嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:40.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:43:55.685000+08:00","text":"對，跟委員報告，關於所有海纜的案件，現在檢方、院方都已經有好幾起案件的處理經驗，對於這些案件的處理，如果有故意的，我們就重罰；但是如果是意外的，我們就還他清白。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:43:57.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:07.152000+08:00","text":"在之前都已經有這些案例了，有一些是經過和解的，有一些是沒有證據顯示是他做的，所以就讓他回去。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:09.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:19.819000+08:00","text":"像在兩個月前有一個案子，我們也扣留了十幾天，然後檢察官才放行，檢察官他們會……","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:19.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:20.819000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:20.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:22.880000+08:00","text":"主委，反正你們都知道我要說的重點嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:22.880000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:23.880000+08:00","text":"是，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:23.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:25.862000+08:00","text":"我希望你們就是這樣去處理，這個是為了整個臺灣的安全。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:28.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:50.995000+08:00","text":"在我來了以後發現有這種狀況，就是離島，尤其是金門、馬祖一旦發生海事工程的相關需要，都是用對方的工程團隊處理，我也是疑慮甚深，但是基於整個產業結構目前還沒有辦法解套，所以我就把海巡警戒的SOP大幅度升級。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:50.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:53.036000+08:00","text":"好，反正對這個部分我的提醒就是這樣。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:53.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:44:56.402000+08:00","text":"我最後還有5秒鐘。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:44:56.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:01.114000+08:00","text":"我們現在造了很多艦艇，那我們停泊的地方到底夠不夠？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:01.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:09.831000+08:00","text":"我們現在有前瞻的部署，很樂觀，署長更樂觀，署長說夠，那我說樂觀。夠嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:09.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:16.432000+08:00","text":"對，因為國防部有幫忙，地方政府幫忙了，然後經濟部也有幫忙。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:16.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:21.413000+08:00","text":"好，如果夠就好，你現在有很多船，我只是擔心你的船沒有地方停啦！","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:21.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:22.294000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，非常樂觀。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:22.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:23.294000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:22.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:22.634000+08:00","text":"然後署長更樂觀，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:22.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:22.734000+08:00","text":"謝謝張宏陸委員。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T09:45:23.234000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T09:45:27.519714+08:00","text":"接下來我們請張智倫委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}