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要跟你討論就是金門的這個地理位置其實有關這個兩岸的這個電商物流這個金門有一個地理優勢嘛 距離大陸近然後這個我們過去的產業比較單一嘛都是靠金酒啊 靠觀光啦那未來的話我們金門打算就是相較於從台北來經過台北轉運啊從料羅"},{"start":26.313,"end":40.722,"text":"金門廖羅港直航這樣運輸物流時間快速很多了那你看看馬祖已經有在做了馬祖跟福州馬尾有做海上的貨運直航跨境電商最快隔日就會完成2024年就有在做了那我們金門現在的問題在哪裡呢"},{"start":43.819,"end":70.028,"text":"包委員據我了解金門沒有業者提出申請沒有業者提出申請所以如果有業者提出申請那就可以開始就可以審核是嗎包委員依照我們現在的海運快遞貨物通關管理辦法的話現在是授權各關區譬如說金門的話就有高雄關他會去評估一些要件然後在10月的時候會公告說他有沒有人力或者是怎麼樣可以"},{"start":72.77,"end":78.514,"text":"設幾條線10月份的時候高雄公安會公告就是說今年是115年 今年115年的時候10月會決定明年可不可以申請是嗎是你們是每一年審核一次是嗎對 依照剛剛講的那個海運快遞貨物的通關管理辦法一年就公告一次那我看到你們114年 去年是說這個115年是不受理喔海塊專區的深設或是擴限是吧"},{"start":98.61,"end":123.852,"text":"是 高雄關去年那評估是因為高雄那邊沒有條件就是所以缺什麼條件呢它所謂的條件指的是說就是看哪些地方想要設這個海運快遞專區它要符合許多的一些要件譬如說要實體隔離啦或者有沒有作戰硬體設施是不是硬體設施你們能力夠不夠呢"},{"start":124.636,"end":142.384,"text":"人力我們人力當然嚴重的不足尤其金門來說如果要設兩條線大概需要30到40人這樣的一個估計那一條線的話至少也要15到20人那你缺多少人呢為了產業的發展為了地區產業發展是應該提早做相關的這個準備"},{"start":148.574,"end":164.421,"text":"對 那我們各關區人力的確目前都是不足的是嘛 尤其現在政府要進這個什麼馬鈴薯啊 發芽的啊什麼花生什麼各方面那事不上你們人力部是不是應該趕快提出相關的這個人力要怎麼擴編的這個準備啊我們也可以來協助啊這個我們也是支持啊"},{"start":166.023,"end":181.198,"text":"報告委員我現在還沒有辦法跟人總那邊提出這樣的一個需求現在政府要那個竹科檢查馬雲署需要很多的人那是房檢署那邊但是進口的時候也要官員會用很多嘛對不對不然loading太重啊是"},{"start":182.213,"end":182.913,"text":"總量限制有總量限制嗎"},{"start":205.782,"end":225.014,"text":"有總量限制嗎 離島有總量限制嗎所謂的總量限制指的是專區總量的限制金門有沒有特別不算在我們頭還是我們需不需要我們在離島經濟條例幫你們協助金門就不要跟高雄一起算了就離島自己算了包委員這裡應該沒有所謂的總量限制需要在離島經濟條例協助修改沒有"},{"start":229.158,"end":243.066,"text":"不用齁 不用齁 那這個沒問題那人力你們加油嘛 看我們需要做什麼協助那嚴一來幫你 好 謝謝您喔那我們大概如果下去金門地區有什麼需要的我們現場到時候去看好不好印尼設施什麼先來衝突喔 好 謝謝國產署齁 這個"},{"start":246.499,"end":255.066,"text":"你們115年的預算案中有辦這個國有非公用文化資產修復及管理維護計畫還有向海致敬的計畫這兩個計畫那在這兩個計畫裡頭金門地區的這個預算有16億的這個16億的這個全國的這個修復計畫裡頭這個北區國產署是4億又426萬元金門縣是0元耶為什麼會這樣子"},{"start":272.277,"end":298.138,"text":"根委員報告依照文資法的規定是看地上物因為地上物大部分都是國家公園管理的或縣政府或鄉公所管理的是要由他們來幫你修復土地的部分是國產署理論上這些單位可以來跟國產署撥用土地而且撥用的土地可以無償"},{"start":299.9,"end":328.299,"text":"那我想請問 因為戰地這幾年撤軍多了很多營舍 軍方的這個營舍那這些全部我知道軍備全部都已經歸給國產署了吧陸陸續續典交很多的嘛 很多都還給國產署了現在主地都國產署 第三位都給你們了啊而且這些營舍都是50年以上啊跟委員報告啦現在軍方原則上第一個會先問地方政府公務署可以休息了也沒有什麼使用的需求"},{"start":329.199,"end":346.348,"text":"如果都確定沒有不是 你們不是問我們許用效你們先把它整理好給我們因為這是你們的地上物是你們建物所有權是你們你剛剛是不是說如果是地上物是你們才歸你們管那現在進了好多軍營我們現在就請你們先弄好我們再來用"},{"start":347.859,"end":364.097,"text":"你們的東西喔文資喔報告委員那個剛剛講的那個軍方移交過來的時候他有很多的地商物是要報廢然後可能都要拆除很多都可能都要經過文資法對不對那這不應該你們來做啊因為地商物給你們了啊"},{"start":366.96,"end":387.53,"text":"沒有 如果今天是軍方移交的對 已經移交的移交的部分你現在的做法是說金門縣政府先問他有沒有用你們去做活用 活化嘛 對不對那這工作變成金門縣政府的那這個東西已經是國有財產署了已經是中華民國政府了所以這個第三步到底他是不是能拆除或不能拆除有文資法的問題嗎這邊跟你們去做"},{"start":389.751,"end":405.277,"text":"這個我們會去中央政府包括軍備局他們會先去報報說有沒有適用文資身份如果沒有的話就是會做財產報費會由軍方拆除或是後面需要的機關來現在他撥給你們了"},{"start":406.898,"end":433.748,"text":"撥給你們後土地是中華民國就是國產署在管的嘛那建物也是都撥給你們全部都屬於中華民國政府啊那就剛符合你剛說的嘛事實上省紀部都已經管你們了你們都管地部管屋省紀部都已經跟你們說了你剛才說建物所有我現在跟你講那些軍營也是歸你們的基本有好多軍營現在歸你們你們現在資產很多喔但是他有些不見得有機文資不一定是文資喔不一定是文資啦那這工作應該你們來做啊你是所有權人喔"},{"start":434.668,"end":446.317,"text":"如果今天這個營區沒有使用的部分那個有一些老舊的營區政府要再編預算去把它修復那是你的工作 你是簽證所有權的呢"},{"start":447.588,"end":465.887,"text":"問題是你修完的建築物是閒置啊不管你要做什麼那閒置你就要想辦法活化啊這就是國安參數的工作啊不然可以活化我們有一些認為管理上這是後面前面要先做嘛這是後面活化是前面前面不管要修復或是要維護或是要拆除這都是你的工作啊"},{"start":466.708,"end":485.034,"text":"你沒有編預算你編預算編零你到底要怎麼做沒有沒有在移管的時候是還是有軍方負責所以你覺得是軍方要做這件事情對不對對來第一個然後第二個向海致敬的部分向海致敬這個我是不支持你這個看法但是我們再細細討論沒關係向海這個向海致敬的部分對不對海岸線你看金門的海岸線佔這個整個來講"},{"start":488.938,"end":496.6,"text":"我們總長130公里 佔北區分屬你們的海岸線總長度21%你們根本預算只有10%我們有這麼多的海漂垃圾 我3月29日去海邊撿海漂這個漫長的海岸線你們都給我們不夠的資源 為什麼報告委員 第一個就是在海岸清理的部分是有前者劃分的"},{"start":513.903,"end":536.536,"text":"如果在國家公園範圍內是有國家公園當然當然那如果有些是山崗啊或是你說在國家公園範圍即便這個海岸線是這個最海岸的邊邊都是國產區的土地對國產區是比較前面一點的行政院有一個分工原則他需要說每一公里的海岸都寸寸土地都有人清所以會有"},{"start":537.597,"end":561.051,"text":"所以國家公園範圍內就是國家公園附屯那如果不是國家公園範圍內如果是山港或漁港就有山港或漁港的管理機關如果是河川就河川的管理機關如果是海邊呢它剩下的國有位登陸地才是有國產署所以我們每一年大概在這裡大概會花一千多萬到一千三百萬左右來辦你覺得這樣夠嗎 金門的海漂屋那麼多"},{"start":563.192,"end":585.721,"text":"這個他在核定中長程計劃的時候他有抓一個每公里的金額啦那因為不一樣的時間假設剛好碰到颱風或是有特別的情況之下不是不是基本上不是只有颱風才有海飄舞基本上每一天都有海飄舞我們有時候還是會做經費上面的調整就是說你這個東西可能我們先提出預算的凍結請你再"},{"start":587.422,"end":608.359,"text":"專欄跟我們報告一下好嗎看一下我們這個海岸線你們到底要怎麼管另外的軍營的部分你也想一下要怎麼處理有這麼多的資產總是要好好的管理嘛我們再跟軍方了解一下其實真正營館的營區還不多啦不多好 那不多你就承擔責任啦因為軍方還是會有所謂的站起屏風的概念啦好 謝謝你們謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝下一位諮詢委員及李昆成委員諮詢"},{"start":621.455,"end":625.558,"text":"說一下 因為李昆城委員跟駱斌財委員都是多五分鐘謝謝 謝謝主席我們請莊部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:34+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:35+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請關務署。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:35+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:36+08:00","text":"請關務署彭署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:37+08:00","text":"國產署要準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:37+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:38+08:00","text":"請國產署曾署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:38+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:39+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:34.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:34.883000+08:00","text":"署長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:35.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:32:40.505000+08:00","text":"本席要跟你討論金門的地理位置和兩岸的電商物流。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:32:42.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:03.695000+08:00","text":"金門有一個地理優勢，就是距離大陸近，我們過去的產業都是靠金酒和觀光，比較單一，未來我們金門的打算是，相較於經由臺北轉運，從金門料羅港直航的運輸物流時間會快很多。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:05.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:14.702000+08:00","text":"這部分馬祖已經在做了，馬祖和福州馬尾有做海上貨運直航，跨境電商最快隔日就會完成，這部分2024年就已經在做了，請問我們金門現在的問題在哪裡呢？","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:18.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:21.620000+08:00","text":"報告委員，據我瞭解，金門沒有業者提出申請。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:21.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:23.381000+08:00","text":"沒有業者提出申請？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:23.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:24.381000+08:00","text":"過去沒有業者提出申請。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:23.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:27.482000+08:00","text":"所以如果有業者提出申請，就可以審核嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:27.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:46.770000+08:00","text":"報告委員，依照現在的海運快遞貨物通關辦法是授權各關區，比如說金門的話，就由高雄關去評估一些要件，在10月的時候會公告它有沒有人力或者是怎麼樣、可以設幾條線。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:46.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:48.371000+08:00","text":"10月份的時候高雄關會公告。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:48.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:49.431000+08:00","text":"好，就是今年（115年）10月會決定明年可不可以申請嗎？是！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:49.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:50.112000+08:00","text":"你們是每年審核一次嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:50.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:51.033000+08:00","text":"對，依照剛剛講的海運快遞貨物通關辦法，一年就公告一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:33:51.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:33:52.494000+08:00","text":"我看到你們去年114年是說115年不受理海快專區的申設或是擴線，是吧？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:12.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:19.836000+08:00","text":"是，高雄關去年評估是因為高雄那邊沒有條件，所以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:20.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:20.997000+08:00","text":"缺什麼條件呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:22.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:34.349000+08:00","text":"它所謂的條件指的是看哪些地方想要設海運快遞專區，要符合許多的要件，譬如要實體隔離或者有沒有擴散等等。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:35.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:35.930000+08:00","text":"硬體設施是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:36.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:36.811000+08:00","text":"硬體設施。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:36.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:37.832000+08:00","text":"你們人力夠不夠呢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:39.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:52.182000+08:00","text":"我們人力當然嚴重的不足，尤其以金門來說，如果要設兩條線，大概需要30人到40人這樣的一個估計，一條線的話，至少也要15人到20人。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:53.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:55.424000+08:00","text":"你們缺多少人？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:34:55.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:34:56.384000+08:00","text":"為了產業的發展、為了地區產業發展是不是應該提早做相關的準備，有關人員的部分？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:02.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:05.655000+08:00","text":"對，我們各關區人力的確目前都是不足的。是嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:05.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:15.720000+08:00","text":"尤其現在政府又要禁什麼發芽的馬鈴薯、什麼花生等各方面，這樣你們人力不足是不是應該趕快提出相關人力要怎麼擴編的準備？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:16.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:18.261000+08:00","text":"我們也可以來協助，這個我們也是支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:20.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:23.407000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我現在還沒有辦法跟人總那邊提出這樣的需求，因為我們不知道……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:23.407000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:24.427000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:24.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:27.290000+08:00","text":"現在政府要逐顆檢查馬鈴薯，需要很多的人力。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:28.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:29.873000+08:00","text":"那是防檢署那邊。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:29.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:33.596000+08:00","text":"是啊，但是進口的時候，也會用很多官員，對不對？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:33.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:35.178000+08:00","text":"不然loading太重啊。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:35.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:40.735200+08:00","text":"你們是不是趁這個機會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:40.735200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:46.292400+08:00","text":"本來就很辛苦了，剛好政府……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:46.292400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:51.849600+08:00","text":"我們來評估看看，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:51.849600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:35:57.406800+08:00","text":"是不是提出相關的辦法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:35:57.406800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:02.964000+08:00","text":"不然如果公務人員不足，會影響產業的發展，產業創造經濟、增加就業人口等等，對產業發展也有影響，所以我建議第一個，離島有總量限制嗎？","quality":0.158},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:02.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:06.266000+08:00","text":"所謂總量限制指的是專區總量的限制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:06.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:09.288000+08:00","text":"金門有沒有特別不算在裡頭？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:09.288000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:10.288000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:09.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:15.191000+08:00","text":"還是需不需要我們在離島建設條例協助你們，金門就不要跟高雄一起算，就離島自己算啦？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:16.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:18.013000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這裡應該沒有所謂的總量管制的問題……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:18.013000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:19.013000+08:00","text":"沒有問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:18.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:23.278000+08:00","text":"需不需要在離島建設條例協助修改？沒有。不用？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:24.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:24.699000+08:00","text":"這個沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:25.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:26.080000+08:00","text":"人力的部分，你們加油嘛！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:26.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:28.621000+08:00","text":"看我們需要做什麼協助，研議來幫你。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:29.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:29.522000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝你。謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:30.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:35.345000+08:00","text":"我們如果下去，金門地區有什麼需要的，我們現場到時候去看好嗎？好。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:35.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:36.406000+08:00","text":"硬體設施什麼先來充足。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:36.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:37.046000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:37.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:36:49.046000+08:00","text":"國產署，你們115年的預算案中，有辦國有非公用文化資產修復及管理維護計畫，還有向海致敬的計畫，在這兩個計畫裡頭、在全國修復計畫的16億裡頭，北區國產署分配到4億426萬元，但金門縣是0元，為什麼會這樣子？","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:36:49.046000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:06.457000+08:00","text":"就是文資的這個部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:06.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:11.682000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，依照文資法的規定是看地上物。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:11.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:12.682000+08:00","text":"地上物嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:12.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:23.691000+08:00","text":"因為地上物大部分都是國家公園管理的或縣政府或鄉公所管理的，所以那些就是要由他們來修復。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:23.691000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:24.691000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:23.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:25.293000+08:00","text":"土地的部分是在國產署。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:25.293000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:27.474000+08:00","text":"對，土地是你們的嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:27.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:32.138000+08:00","text":"這些單位可以來跟國產署撥用土地，而且撥用的土地可以無償撥用，達到……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:34.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:43.566000+08:00","text":"我想請問金門因為戰地這幾年撤軍，多了很多軍方的營舍，我知道這些軍備全部都已經歸給國產署了吧？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:45.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:45.908000+08:00","text":"陸陸續續點交。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:46.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:37:53.533000+08:00","text":"很多了、很多都還給國產署了，現在土地都還國產署，地上物也都給你們了，而且這些營舍都是50年以上。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:37:54.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:04.380000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現在軍方原則上第一個會先問地方政府有沒有什麼使用的需求，如果都確定沒有……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:04.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:18.367000+08:00","text":"不是，不是我們使用的需用，而是你們先把它整理好給我們，因為這是你們的地上物，建物所有權是你們，你剛剛是說如果地上物是你們的才歸你們管，現在金門好多軍營，是吧？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:18.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:24.022000+08:00","text":"現在請你們先弄好，我們再來用啊，你們的東西、文資啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:24.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:33.552000+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛剛講的，軍方移交過來的時候，有很多的地上物都要報廢，可能都要拆除，因為……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:33.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:36.916000+08:00","text":"沒有，很多都可能要經過文資法，對不對？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:36.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:37.916000+08:00","text":"對，如果超過40年……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:37.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:38.077000+08:00","text":"這部分應該你們來做，因為地上物給你們了啊！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:40.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:43.521000+08:00","text":"沒有，如果今天是軍方移交的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:43.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:44.442000+08:00","text":"對，已經移交的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:44.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:45.422000+08:00","text":"移交的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:45.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:51.085000+08:00","text":"你現在的做法是，先問金門縣政府看看有沒有用，你們去做活化，對不對？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:51.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:52.706000+08:00","text":"這工作變成金門縣政府的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:53.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:01.510000+08:00","text":"這個東西已經是國有財產署的、已經是中華民國政府的，所以這個地上物到底能拆除或不能拆除，有文資法的問題，這個應該你們去做啊！","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:05.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:18.997000+08:00","text":"中央政府，包括軍備局，他們會先去報，看有沒有適用文資身分，如果沒有，就會做財產報廢，由軍方拆除或是後面需要用地機關來……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:18.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:23.639000+08:00","text":"不是，現在他撥給你們了，撥給你們之後，土地是中華民國，就是國產署在管的嘛！","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:23.639000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:24.639000+08:00","text":"對，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:24.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:39.865000+08:00","text":"建物也都撥給你們，全部都屬於中華民國政府，那就更符合你剛剛說的，事實上審計部都已經管你們了，你們都管地不管屋，審計部都已經跟你們說了，你剛才是說建物所有權，我現在跟你講那些軍營也都歸你們了，金門有好多軍營，現在歸你們，你們現在資產很多。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:40.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:42.926000+08:00","text":"但是有些不見得有具文資……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:42.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:47.708000+08:00","text":"不一定是文資，但是這個工作應該你們來做，你是所有權人、管理人……","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:48.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:58.375000+08:00","text":"如果今天這個營區沒有使用的部分，有一些老舊的營區，政府要再編預算去把它修復……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:58.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:00.176000+08:00","text":"那就是你的工作，你是建物所有權人啊！","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:01.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:03.631000+08:00","text":"問題是修完的建築物是閒置，這就有浪費公帑……","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:04.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:09.076000+08:00","text":"不管你要做什麼，閒置，你就要想辦法活化，這就是國產署的工作啊。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:09.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:12.179000+08:00","text":"當然可以活化，我們有一些認為管理上的問題，會請軍方把它拆除……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:12.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:14.282000+08:00","text":"不，這是後面，前面要先做嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:15.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:22.689000+08:00","text":"這是後面，前面不管要修復或是要維護或者要拆除，這都是你的工作，你沒有編預算，你預算編零，你到底要怎麼做？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:22.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:25.690000+08:00","text":"沒有，在移管的時候，還是由軍方負責。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:25.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:28.591000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得是軍方要做這件事情就對了？對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:28.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:30.451000+08:00","text":"這是第一個，第二個是向海致敬的部分。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:31.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:34.953000+08:00","text":"我是不支持你這個看法，但是我們再細細討論，沒關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:34.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:48.699000+08:00","text":"向海致敬的部分，你看金門的海岸線，總長130公里，占北區分署的海岸線總長度21%，你們給我們預算只有10%，我們有這麼多的海漂垃圾，我3月29日還去海邊撿海漂，這個漫長的海岸線，你們都給我們不夠的資源，為什麼？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:48.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:10.565000+08:00","text":"報告委員，第一個，在海岸清理的部分是有權責劃分的，如果在國家公園範圍內是由國家公園清理。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:10.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:10.965000+08:00","text":"當然、當然。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:11.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:14.587000+08:00","text":"如果有些是商港或是少數……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:14.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:20.811000+08:00","text":"你說在國家公園範圍，即便這個海岸線……但是這個海岸的邊邊都是國產署的土地……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:20.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:21.811000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:20.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:22.992000+08:00","text":"國家公園是比較前面一點的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:23.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:30.496000+08:00","text":"因為行政院有一個分工原則，他希望每一公里的海岸，寸寸土地都有人清，所以國產署管的是……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:31.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:33.578000+08:00","text":"所以國家公園範圍內就是國家公園負責？對、對。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:34.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:36.160000+08:00","text":"如果不是國家公園範圍呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:36.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:42.324000+08:00","text":"如果是商港或漁港，就由商港或漁港的管理機關，如果是河川就由河川的管理機關。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:42.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:42.964000+08:00","text":"如果是海邊呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:43.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:52.870000+08:00","text":"剩下的國有未登錄地才是由國產署，所以我們每一年在這裡大概會花一千多萬到1,300萬左右來辦理清理計畫。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:52.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:53.931000+08:00","text":"你覺得這樣夠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:53.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:55.031000+08:00","text":"金門的海漂物那麼多。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:57.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:09.037000+08:00","text":"因為在核定中長程計畫的時候，它有抓一個每公里的金額，因為不一樣的時間，假設剛好碰到颱風或是有特別的情況之下……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:09.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:12.418000+08:00","text":"不是，金門不是只有颱風才有海漂物，金門每一天都有海漂物，你知道吧？","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:12.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:16.320000+08:00","text":"我們有時候還是會做經費上面的調整，就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:16.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:22.743000+08:00","text":"你這個東西，可能我們先提出預算的凍結，請你再專案跟我們報告一下好嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:22.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:29.149000+08:00","text":"看一下我們這個海岸線，你們到底要怎麼管；另外，軍營的部分，你也想一下要怎麼處理，有這麼多的資產，總是要好好的管理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:29.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:35.233000+08:00","text":"我們再跟軍方了解一下，其實真正移管的營區還不多。不多？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:35.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:36.154000+08:00","text":"好，不多，你就承擔責任嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:37.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:40.318000+08:00","text":"因為軍方還是會有所謂的戰啟平封的概念啦。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:41.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:41.218000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾署長國基","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:41.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:41.318000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:41.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:42.359000+08:00","text":"下一位質詢委員，請李坤城委員質詢。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:55.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:59.098000+08:00","text":"說明一下，李坤城委員跟羅明才委員都是5分鐘。","quality":0.737}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}