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PM2.5跟臭氧等項目上是不是屬於三級的防治區是是嘛對那麥寮電廠是不是屬於三級防治區的寄存污染源是是嘛是是不是是好那我就要再請教喔基本環境基本法的第三條題集第三條題集如果經濟對環境有不良影響之餘者應該以何者優先"},{"start":93.425,"end":119.564,"text":"環境保護以環境為優先嘛所以我現在PowerPoint也有給你看好那最後我就請教一下針對2026年的4月份這個經濟部責成台電短期調度民營麥寮電廠1號與3號燃煤機組執行為期三個月的發電任務那雲林縣本身是列為三級的防治區而且台大公衛研究也指出"},{"start":120.365,"end":132.073,"text":"六清周邊的高曝露組包含台西麥寮居民癌症的發生率為其他雲林鄉鎮的1.29倍在這裡1.29倍所以已經符合所謂的環境經濟對於環境有不良影響以環境優先且空污不達標區寄存的固定污染源應該減量"},{"start":145.865,"end":174.454,"text":"那如今要重啟這個機組請問一下環境部的立場是什麼這個事情我們當聽到消息的時候我們有請經濟部跟台電公司要審慎評估它重啟的必要性還有它的時機啦那如果有啟動的話那我們當然會責成地方的環保主管機關就是雲林縣環保局然後嚴密的監督它空污排放的數據因為目前來說的話據我所知他們有承諾一個量例如說它全年總用的量所以你的態度是說"},{"start":175.274,"end":191.003,"text":"你們會嚴格監督這樣?是嚴格監督那怎麼嚴格監督?第一個是他不能超過例如說他們當然有嚴重空污的時候他應該要優先把它剪下來然後第二個是他如果說超多排的話但是部長這個我們前面有講了這幾個法條這個態度會不會是太"},{"start":195.691,"end":213.39,"text":"不太屬於環境部應該有的立場你是不是應該要更因為剛剛已經講到你的經濟迫害這個環境那這個也是三級的防治區喔你的態度是不是應該要再堅定一點呢這個問題我舉例我禮拜一在日本的時候也跟幾個他們相關的教員討論過"},{"start":214.531,"end":240.913,"text":"大家的問題就是說遇到一個挑戰就是整個中東的這個戰事的危機這個可能的能源的這個要多一點這個游刃有餘的一個方式所以我們我們也體會到這一點但是我剛剛前面這個環境基本法第三條不就是說如果經濟經濟的發展也讓環境受到迫害的話環境應該優先嘛所以我要提的不是單一事件喔部長這個路透也報導這個卡達的LNG的設施受攻擊後"},{"start":242.794,"end":262.163,"text":"約17%的出口產能受到影響而且它修復需要3到5年這對於我們未來可以預期現在政府一定會像你剛剛說的這些理由去重啟所謂的燃煤發電機組的可能性是很高的那今天麥寮發生了這樣的事明天也有可能是其他的發電廠"},{"start":263.564,"end":282.86,"text":"那事實上過去也不曾真正的去思考也不曾遇到這個火力發電廠重啟的問題所以我去問了一下你們環境部相關的一直沒有所謂相關的評估或重啟程序的依據那現在就會變成是經濟部想要重啟會需不需要問過環境部的意見你的意見他們會"},{"start":284.761,"end":311.219,"text":"他會理你嗎你有沒有什麼相關的約束力因為他的這個現在他2號已經關掉了1號跟3號他的許可期是可以到117年6月跟到116年12月也就是最快一張是到明年的12月所以他現在而且他現在的使用的時間只有三個月就是夏天那夏天的情況下其實對於我們這個雨下的比較多所以對於環境的影響"},{"start":314.902,"end":333.139,"text":"我沒有辦法解釋這樣子重啟的狀況他有沒有需要問你那你有沒有知情有沒有需要被查你有沒有任何的手段可以去好好的保護百姓保護這個環境因為會問這個事情是因為其實去年監察院去年的監察院就已經有糾正了"},{"start":334.161,"end":350.662,"text":"賣寮的一號燃煤機組研議案整體的作業不合程序倉促混亂研議理由未服事實又經濟部沒有評估政府承諾跳票的爭議更沒有跟地區的居民充分溝通因此要求政府相關部門改善"},{"start":351.431,"end":377.903,"text":"那過去呢我們有合理的能源規劃所以可能過去也沒有想到重啟的問題那也一直不認為是會發生的事情但是麥寮一號機組原定是2024年的5月31號正式除役然而在合約到期的前夕台電公司跟經濟部又迅速的核准他延役至2025年的12月31號那他合約的修改簽合也只用了一天那今天"},{"start":378.903,"end":406.809,"text":"今天經濟部又一指的行政命令就要在麥寮重啟5月到7月要重啟發電那部長我想這個事情已經不是單純的一次性的能源調度喔而且連去年被監察院糾正程序倉促後今年的重啟案又重蹈覆轍依舊是程序倉促溝通不足請問環境部至今有沒有收到任何的任務你在這件事情裡面你的角色到底是什麼有沒有被要求說提出環境影響"},{"start":407.589,"end":418.221,"text":"空污排放或者居民健康風險或替代調度方案的意見還是整件事情其實經濟部講就好了你們就是看到新聞知道說那我會嚴格監督監測就被動的背書請問一下你這部分你有沒有想過"},{"start":422.646,"end":451.796,"text":"這個部分按照現在的法規裡面是經濟部他提出這個計畫他要獲得雲林縣政府的同意的許可所以雲林縣政府是有條件的同意那當然啦我們事後也知道這樣的一個情況不過呢他其實當時他們的協議裡面我們也知道說他的用煤量有要受到嚴格的控管不能超過114年當年停機前的一個水準部長你現在的這個論述就很像是你知道這件事情但是主要是經濟部跟地方政府"},{"start":452.616,"end":469.381,"text":"環境部的角色我們的角色就是希望說他們在這個要把這個重啟的必要性跟這個他的這個時機然後他如果有空污的影響的話其實一定要把它降到最低這是我們的工作部長我想今天經濟部的作為跟你們"},{"start":470.221,"end":491.092,"text":"剛剛我講到的空氣污染防治法跟環境基本法都有衝突啊我從開中銘我前面幾題就已經問到那你們作為主管機關你們沒有做出任何的動作也任由這樣子經濟部這樣子一指命令就蹂躪說這個立法院通過而且是你們環境部主管的法條啊所以我們希望你應該更有態度而且你應該去執法"},{"start":492.065,"end":513.852,"text":"你應該要去強硬的執行這些法條啊所以部長我知道你剛剛有講啊你說這個有可能有什麼許可範圍內啊沒有立即違法的問題但是我想環評這件事情你有沒有需要去環評有沒有需要去思考說他重啟的話因為這個麥寮電廠也是25年前的老舊的燃煤機組啊所以他對於環境的影響到底是什麼然後對於這個當時的"},{"start":517.629,"end":530.905,"text":"環境背景跟現在我們的淨零碳排的目標也完全不同那現在這幾年也有這個所謂的淨零排放為主流的概念所以你現在也欠缺明確的法令依據所以你好像沒有任何的角色可以做是不是就是目前以法條來講"},{"start":532.721,"end":553.153,"text":"基本上當然我們是希望是說能夠減少越少越好但是基本上現在有一個這個中東戰爭的一個危機的事件那經濟部有這樣的需求他們必須要做好該有的一個溝通那我們是做好空氣品質還有各種的數據的一個監督跟檢查部長其實現在就是重啟其實是欠缺明確的法令依據"},{"start":554.173,"end":576.078,"text":"然後呢也會跟現行的空污法以及環境基本法有衝突的地方那請教一下部長那經濟部用緊急採購就可以凌駕空污法跟環境基本法嗎那環境部是不是應該跟經濟部商討修改電業法增加未來的授權的依據然後呢在這個重啟的過程中你們到底要做到哪些事情是不是應該要去討論這個我們會來研議一下"},{"start":580.52,"end":601.882,"text":"這個不能只有研議啦部長 這個是很重要的事情因為一定 我剛剛已經講到了 現在你們說各國可能有面臨到相關的問題那但是各國環境部 環境上面的角色是什麼要不要再做一個很嚴格的幫人民把關 幫環境把關因為會導致 所以另外就是會導致致癌的一級的這個致癌物"},{"start":604.945,"end":616.059,"text":"這個本病皮在賣電還品的時候並沒有被納入完整的空氣品質跟健康風險管理的框架那這個東西在歐盟也在2004年他就有納管"},{"start":616.673,"end":636.146,"text":"所以我國也至今還沒有針對這個本病皮制定相關的排放標準所以我想要強調的事情這個環境的評估不是一核定就是終身應該你們要去適時的介入滾動的調整而且針對這些淨零碳排無煤加原為主流倉益的現在應該要有更嚴謹的檢核機制"},{"start":638.038,"end":659.428,"text":"所以要請環境部在過程中要具備監督者的立場要幫我們的環境幫我們下一代把關所以我想要請問所以第一環境部是不是要去討論一級致癌物這個本病皮未來有沒有規劃納入環境影響評估或者是空氣污染排放標準的規定範疇這是第一件事"},{"start":660.305,"end":688.776,"text":"然後第二件事是針對重啟的機組你應該要重啟的相關的評估以及健康風險空污監測的分析報告在重啟後也要提出一份環境影響的回顧評估告訴國人這段時間對於環境的影響也確保人民知情跟監督的權利可不可以好第二項的部分我們會來研究說怎麼樣的去做表達那第一項的部分的話就有關那個環境中"},{"start":690.216,"end":709.535,"text":"BAP的部分我們有在做監測但是有關排放標準的部分還是要看各國目前現在的排放的監測技術跟方法我們會後續來評估那我問你歐盟說在2004年就納管了那我們咧你有沒有去了解和研究那納管了應該也是會有相關的"},{"start":710.456,"end":736.094,"text":"因為那個方法還是要轉回我們國家的標準方法另外一個就是那你有去研究過嗎你有去了解過嗎我們有去了解但是美國目前沒有這樣的一個排放標準那歐盟呢你怎麼選一個選一個好像你覺得沒有因為我們會綜合評估各國的這個情況那當然越完整對我們標準是越好那你現在決定要不要去你有去研議過了嗎我們會來做後續的研議所以前面有做過研議我們有先做環境中的監測那你們現在覺得要做要做"},{"start":739.117,"end":756.013,"text":"因為這個監測也要看他對應的可行的技術跟可行的評估方法這所以我們後續會來做評估那你可不可以這個本席給本席辦公室一個月的時間給我們報告可以可以嗎針對這個這個部分這個一級致癌物納入我們的範疇好還有第二個"},{"start":757.366,"end":776.778,"text":"部長第二個,這個部分你可以答應嗎?這個我們會來做該有的風險性的評估因為這個也需要一些時間做大氣擴散的模擬還有它的排放多少的量我們應該要趕快先開會去討論它現在重啟的過程中你到底要扮演什麼角色,要做哪些事情"},{"start":778.195,"end":788.427,"text":"這部分是不是也可以請部長在一個月內給本席辦公室這個如果要做一個模擬調查的話可能真的需要一兩個月的時間因為這個需要專業的團隊去一個月的時間你至少要有初步的你的哪些節點要去檢查"},{"start":795.996,"end":815.715,"text":"然後前中後你要做什麼事情你要做到什麼監督這應該也不用那麼久吧應該一個月至少可以吧就是說整個到完整的一個答案或是一個方法可能要花到兩到三個月當然不是完整你得先有流程你才可以細細做嘛可以可以是不是因為問這件事情是不是只有這個賣寮的個案"},{"start":817.886,"end":834.417,"text":"興達的電廠也有老舊機組研議的問題然後呢剛剛也有討論到台中還有燃煤機組未拆但是呢我們立法院也已經通過2028的無煤中火相關決議那2050的淨零也已經是國家政策方向所以現在的問題就是啊"},{"start":835.889,"end":863.588,"text":"從賣掉的案件看到只要中央說供電韌性、能源安全為理由老舊的燃煤機組就可能被重新的調度地方政府若核准操作許可污染的壓力地方扛那如果你不核准又可能被說說影響供電這就是今天的這樣的狀況所以要請教部長未來針對已經除役年限卻又因為供電理由嚴議備轉或短期調度的老舊燃煤機組"},{"start":864.844,"end":889.659,"text":"你應該要建立一套最低的環境檢核機制而且你至少應該也要要求排放增量評估健康風險的檢核以及替代調度方案跟與居民溝通的紀錄你是不是應該要要求這些事情這個我們會來研議啦因為這些在蓋之前齁他其實都有做過環境影響評估那現在呢又一個新的一個局勢我們會來研究一下"},{"start":890.72,"end":918.555,"text":"幾年前了對啊那到現在已經差了這麼多你現在的角色應該要積極的介入但是因為這個到底是他們適用於哪一個法規然後什麼樣的條件我們可以來監督我們會來研議一下所以我現在問起來就是我今天整個質詢就是我知道你們根本就沒有準備了我也問過你們環境部你們現在目前就是沒有沒有這些東西所以我才要告訴你你是不是要願意研議一下燃煤發電退場的時程或者是透過剛剛講的修法你要去了解修法專法"},{"start":919.315,"end":943.37,"text":"或者是給地方政府更明確的環境把關的依據這個就是我今天整個主題要告訴你的對 野報委員這個其實是一個突發的中東的局勢的影響沒有人想到的所以這個各國都因應這個突發的一個事情其實部長也不是這樣子喔部長也不是這樣子之前在還沒中東戰爭之前我們已經多次講過我們的能源是有問題能源配比是有國安問題的"},{"start":944.51,"end":955.363,"text":"那你當初有這個國安問題我們也一直在堅持就是說為什麼你老舊的燃煤機組要拆掉就是因為擔心你到時候又說供電有問題然後要有韌性然後就把老舊機組再重新啟動所以部長這不是今天的問題啊部長我相信以你的這個專業和關心環境的"},{"start":962.971,"end":988.898,"text":"一個態度你應該更積極有作為因為這個事情真的不是臨時發生的我們之前已經多次的從2024年本席上任以來已經講過很多次這個能源配比的問題影響到環境的問題當然這個是必須我們要跟經濟部一起來討論來面對這個事情但是我們現在這個法規如何設在哪裡做檢核的我們的確要內部要做一些跨部會的討論部長所以我跟你說"},{"start":989.998,"end":1011.801,"text":"調度能源是經濟部的權責可是環境部的責任就是要幫我們把關環境和空污所以這個就是跟剛才一樣是一個月內要給本席一個檢討報告嗎初步的檢討報告謝謝好那最後我想要請一下次長還有我們剛剛的能源應該是能源署的署長"},{"start":1018.137,"end":1044.973,"text":"最後還是要請教一下剛剛上一位我們王玉明委員在質詢的時候有問到這個老舊的一號二號中火的部分你們確定年底會把它拆除我們當新一號機組然後上線了之後我們開始年底之後開始做這個作業就是把老舊的會拆除確定你們可以承諾啟動啟動那多久啟動之後要多久才會完全拆除拆除的時間可能一到"},{"start":1046.054,"end":1072.504,"text":"兩年 一到兩年左右的時間2027年底可以完成拆除一年嗎 因為你今年2026年底開始我們希望說在28年底之前28年底之前那就是因為我們還要拆一個煙囪那個煙囪的話它相當的高那這個必須要有一些安全的問題要去處理所以你承諾要2028年前要把它拆除完畢"},{"start":1073.783,"end":1093.856,"text":"二零二八年前 你說二零二八年底前所以你現在說二零二八年底前 我們現在是希望說在二零二八年底之前把它完成那當然拆除的這個時間如果是可以更順利的話那當然可以提早好那我要請次長承諾一定要做到好不好好謝謝好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:00.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:03.910000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，先請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:03.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:04.190000+08:00","text":"請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:04.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:09.475000+08:00","text":"廖委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:09.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:09.735000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:11.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:24.367000+08:00","text":"部長，我想要先請教，依據我國空氣污染防制法第五條跟第六條的規定，三級防制區──白話文就是空品不達標區，就是空氣品質不好的地方，要求是什麼？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:26.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:28.820000+08:00","text":"因為我沒有條文，是不是請司長……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:30.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:43.824000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我跟部長說，基本上第五條和第六條的意思就是要讓空污減量，在這個防制區裡面，空氣品質未達國家標準，必須要採取較嚴格的污染管制措施。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:45.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:38:52.707000+08:00","text":"第五條和第六條是連動的，比如要要求排放量達一定規模者，應採取最低可達成排放率控制技術。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:38:53.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:03.474000+08:00","text":"再來我想要請問一下部長，雲林縣目前在PM10、PM2.5跟臭氧等項目上，是不是屬於三級防制區？是。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:04.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:14.342000+08:00","text":"那麥寮電廠是不是屬於三級防制區的既存污染源？是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:14.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:25.091000+08:00","text":"好，那我就要再請教，環境基本法的第三條提及，如果經濟對環境有不良影響之虞者，應該以何者為優先？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:26.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:27.766000+08:00","text":"環境保護。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:27.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:39:30.688000+08:00","text":"對，以環境為優先，我的PowerPoint也有給你看。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:39:32.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:24.007000+08:00","text":"最後我請教一下，2026年4月份經濟部責成台電短期調度民營麥寮電廠一號與三號燃煤機組，執行為期三個月的發電任務，雲林縣本身是列為三級防制區，而且臺大公衛研究也指出，六輕周邊的高暴露組，包含臺西、麥寮居民癌症的發生率為其他雲林鄉鎮的1.29倍，已經符合所謂的經濟對於環境有不良影響，以環境優先，且空污不達標區中既存的固定污染源應該減量，如今要重啟機組，請問一下，環境部的立場是什麼？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:24.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:46.494000+08:00","text":"這個事情，當我們聽到消息時，我們有請經濟部跟台電公司要審慎評估它重啟的必要性及時機，如果有啟動的話，我們當然會責成地方的環保主管機關，就是雲林縣環保局，嚴密地監督它空污排放的數據，因為目前來說的話，就我所知，他們有承諾一個量，例如它全年總用的量……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:46.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:48.774000+08:00","text":"所以你的態度是你們會嚴格監督？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:49.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:49.675000+08:00","text":"是，嚴格監督。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:50.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:40:51.176000+08:00","text":"怎麼嚴格監督？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:40:51.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:02.202000+08:00","text":"第一個是它不能超過，當然若有嚴重空污的時候，應該要優先把它減下來；第二個，如果它多排的話，我們會……","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:02.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:21.244000+08:00","text":"但是部長，前面我們講的這幾個法條，這種態度不太屬於環境部應該有的立場，因為剛剛已經講到經濟破壞了環境，這也是三級防制區，你的態度是不是應該要再堅定一點呢？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:23.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:26.390000+08:00","text":"委員，基本上這個問題，我舉例，禮拜一在日本的時候，我也跟幾個相關的單位討論過……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:26.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:27.531000+08:00","text":"我剛剛有聽到了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:27.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:38.980000+08:00","text":"其實大家的問題就是遇到一個挑戰，即整個中東戰事可能的能源危機，要多一點游刃有餘的方式，所以我們也體會到這一點。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:38.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:41:46.927000+08:00","text":"但是剛剛前面的環境基本法第三條，不就是說如果經濟發展也讓環境受到迫害的話，環境應該優先嘛！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:41:47.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:10.060000+08:00","text":"所以我要提的不是單一事件，部長，路透也報導卡達的LNG設施受攻擊後，約17%的出口產能受到影響，而且他修復需要3到5年，這對於我們未來是可以預期的，現在政府一定會像你剛剛說的，以這些理由去重啟燃煤發電機組的可能性是很高的。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:11.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:35.520000+08:00","text":"今天麥寮發生了這樣的事，明天也有可能是其他的發電廠，事實上，過去也不曾真正的去思考，也不曾遇到火力發電廠重啟的問題，我去問了一下環境部，你們一直沒有進行相關的評估或重啟程序的依據，現在就會變成是經濟部想要重啟，需不需要問過環境部的意見？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:35.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:39.823000+08:00","text":"他們會理你的意見嗎？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:39.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:42:41.884000+08:00","text":"你有沒有什麼相關的約束力？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:42:44.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:04.219000+08:00","text":"報告委員，現在2號機組已經關掉了，1號跟3號的許可期是可以到117年6月跟到116年12月，也就是最快的一張是到明年12月，而且它現在的使用時間只有3個月，就是夏天，在夏天的情況下，雨下得比較多，所以對於環境的影響相對就會比較低。","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:04.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:06.060500+08:00","text":"部長，你是環境部長啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:06.060500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:07.902000+08:00","text":"你怎麼一直在幫他解釋呢？是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:07.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:10.224000+08:00","text":"我沒有幫他解釋，這個就是夏天的影響……","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:10.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:13.107000+08:00","text":"我只是想問這樣重啟的狀況，他有沒有需要問你？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:13.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:14.068000+08:00","text":"你有沒有知情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:14.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:15.129000+08:00","text":"有沒有需要備查？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:15.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:19.593000+08:00","text":"你有沒有任何的手段可以去好好地保護百姓、保護環境？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:21.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:43.642000+08:00","text":"會問這個事情是因為去年監察院就已經有糾正麥寮1號燃煤機組延役案，整體作業不合程序，倉促混亂，延役理由未符事實，又經濟部沒有評估政府承諾跳票之爭議，更沒有跟地區居民充分溝通，因此要求政府相關部門改善。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:44.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:43:52.274000+08:00","text":"過去我們有合理的能源規劃，可能過去也沒有想到重啟的問題，也一直不認為這是會發生的事情。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:43:52.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:18.204000+08:00","text":"但麥寮1號機組原定2024年5月31號正式除役，然而在合約到期前夕，台電公司跟經濟部又迅速地核准它延役至2025年12月31日，合約的修改簽核也只用了一天，今天經濟部用一紙的行政命令，就要麥寮在5月到7月重啟發電。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:18.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:31.647000+08:00","text":"部長，我想這個事情已經不是單純一次性的能源調度，而且連去年被監察院糾正程序倉促後，今年的重啟案又重蹈覆轍，依舊是程序倉促、溝通不足。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:33.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:35.228000+08:00","text":"請問環境部至今有沒有收到任何的任務？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:35.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:37.808000+08:00","text":"在這件事情裡面，你的角色到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:37.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:44.594000+08:00","text":"有沒有被要求提出環境影響、空污排放或者居民健康風險或替代調度方案的意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:44.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:50.320000+08:00","text":"還是整件事情其實經濟部講就好了，你們在看到新聞、知道之後說會嚴格監督、監測，就是被動背書。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:50.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:44:51.221000+08:00","text":"請問一下，你有沒有想過這部分？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:44:55.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:45:17.253000+08:00","text":"這個部分按照現在的法規是經濟部提出計畫，它要獲得雲林縣政府的同意許可，所以雲林縣政府是有條件的同意，當然我們事後也知道這樣的情況，不過當時在他們的協議裡面，我們也知道它的用煤量有受到嚴格控管，不能超過114年當年停機前的水準。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:45:17.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:45:26.076000+08:00","text":"部長，你現在的這個論述，就很像是你知道這件事情，但主要是經濟部跟地方政府，環境部的角色到底在哪裡？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:45:26.076000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:45:27.076000+08:00","text":"我想要表達的是這個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:45:26.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:45:39.580000+08:00","text":"我們的角色就是希望他們要考量重啟的必要性跟時機，如果有空污的影響，一定要把它降到最低，這是我們的工作。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:45:40.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:46:07.526000+08:00","text":"部長，今天經濟部的作為跟剛剛我講到的空氣污染防制法及環境基本法都有衝突，我開宗明義在前面幾題就已經問到了，你們作為主管機關，沒有做出任何動作，也任由經濟部一紙命令就蹂躪由立法院通過，而且是環境部主管的法條，所以我們希望你應該更有態度，而且你應該要去強硬地執行這些法條。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:46:08.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:46:18.009000+08:00","text":"所以部長，我知道你剛剛有講過，你說可能有什麼許可範圍內，沒有立即違法的問題，但是這件事情你有沒有需要去環評？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:46:18.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:46:19.930000+08:00","text":"有沒有需要去思考它的重啟？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:46:20.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:46:26.772000+08:00","text":"因為麥寮電廠也是25年前的老舊燃煤機組，對於環境的影響到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:46:26.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:46:42.764000+08:00","text":"當時的環境背景跟現在我們淨零碳排的目標也完全不同，這幾年也有淨零排放為主流的概念，現在也欠缺明確的法令依據，目前以法條來講，你好像沒有任何的角色可以做，是不是？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:46:46.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:01.790000+08:00","text":"當然我們是希望能夠減少，越少越好，但現在有中東戰爭的危機事件，經濟部有這樣的需求，他們必須要做好該有的溝通，我們是做好空氣品質還有各種數據的監督跟檢查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:02.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:11.494000+08:00","text":"部長，現在重啟其實是欠缺明確的法令依據，也會跟現行的空污法以及環境基本法有衝突的地方。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:12.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:18.556000+08:00","text":"請教一下部長，經濟部用緊急採購就可以凌駕空污法跟環境基本法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:18.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:24.197000+08:00","text":"環境部是不是應該跟經濟部商討修改電業法，增加未來的授權依據？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:24.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:28.858000+08:00","text":"在重啟過程中，你們到底要做到哪些事情，是不是應該要去討論？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:28.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:29.058000+08:00","text":"我們會來研議一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:33.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:34.101000+08:00","text":"不能只有研議啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:34.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:35.903000+08:00","text":"部長，這是很重要的事情。是、是！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:36.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:44.772000+08:00","text":"我剛剛已經講到，你們說各國可能也面臨到相關的問題，但是各國環境部在環境上面的角色是什麼？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:44.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:47:50.718000+08:00","text":"要不要很嚴格的再幫人民把關、幫環境把關？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:47:52.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:48:14.336000+08:00","text":"另外，在麥電環評的時候，就會導致致癌的一級致癌物苯駢芘並沒有被納入完整的空氣品質跟健康風險管理的框架，歐盟也在2004年納管這部分，我國至今也還沒有針對苯駢芘制定相關的排放標準。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:48:15.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:48:40.082000+08:00","text":"我想要強調的事情是，環境評估不是一核定就是終身，你們也要適時介入、滾動調整，而且針對淨零碳排、無煤家園為主流倡議的現在，應該要有更嚴謹的檢核機制，所以請環境部在過程中要具備監督者的立場，幫我們的環境、幫我們下一代把關。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:48:40.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:48:51.287000+08:00","text":"所以我想要請問，第一件事，環境部是不是要去討論一級致癌物苯駢芘，未來有沒有規劃納入環境影響評估或者是空氣污染排放標準的規定範疇？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:48:51.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:13.733000+08:00","text":"這個第一件事；第二件事，針對重啟的機組，你們應該要有重啟相關的評估以及健康風險、空污監測的分析報告，在重啟後也要提出一份環境影響的回顧評估，告訴國人這段時間對於環境的影響，也確保人民知情跟監督的權利，可不可以？好。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:14.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:17.954000+08:00","text":"第二項的部分，我們會來研究如何去做表達。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:18.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:18.795000+08:00","text":"第一項的部分，我們請司長回答。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:20.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:33.987000+08:00","text":"有關環境中BaP的部分，我們有在做監測，但是有關排放標準的部分，還是要看各國目前現在的排放監測技術跟方法，我們會後續來評估。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:34.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:38.351000+08:00","text":"那我問你，歐盟在2004年就納管了，我們呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:38.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:40.033000+08:00","text":"你有沒有去了解和研究？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:40.033000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:41.214000+08:00","text":"因為目前美國……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:41.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:42.515000+08:00","text":"他納管了，應該也是會有相關的監測方式。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:43.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:46.979000+08:00","text":"因為那個方法還是要轉回我們國家的標準方法，另外一個就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:47.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:48.059000+08:00","text":"那你有去研究過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:48.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:48.620000+08:00","text":"你有去了解過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:48.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:52.082000+08:00","text":"我們有去了解，但是美國目前沒有這樣的排放標準。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:52.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:52.923000+08:00","text":"那歐盟呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:53.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:49:55.845000+08:00","text":"你怎麼選一個好像你覺得沒有的……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:49:55.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:00.829000+08:00","text":"因為我們會綜合評估各國的情況，當然愈完整對我們訂標準是愈好。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:01.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:03.270000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得這件事情……你現在決定要不要去……你有研議過了嗎？","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:03.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:05.112000+08:00","text":"我們會來做後續的研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:05.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:06.813000+08:00","text":"所以前面有做過研議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:06.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:08.094000+08:00","text":"我們有先做環境中的監測。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:08.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:09.074000+08:00","text":"那你們現在覺得要不要做？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:12.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:17.622000+08:00","text":"因為這個監測還要看它對應的可行技術跟可行評估方法，所以我們後續會來做評估。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:18.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:24.048000+08:00","text":"可不可以一個月的時間給本席辦公室報告，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:25.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:27.671000+08:00","text":"針對一級致癌物的部分納入範疇。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"黃司長偉鳴","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:28.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:34.208000+08:00","text":"還有部長，第二個，這個部分你可以答應嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:34.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:43.434000+08:00","text":"這個我們會來做該有的風險性評估，因為這個也需要一些時間做大氣擴散的模擬，還有它排放多少的量，所以這個我們會來研究。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:43.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:54.840000+08:00","text":"你們應該要趕快先開會去討論，現在重啟的過程中，你們到底要扮演什麼角色、要做哪些事情，這部分是不是也可以請部長在一個月內給本席辦公室……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:54.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:50:59.325000+08:00","text":"如果要做模擬調查的話，可能真的需要一、兩個月的時間，因為這需要專業的團隊去估它的排放量多少。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:50:59.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:51:14.942000+08:00","text":"所以一個月的時間你應該至少要有初步的……哪些節點要去檢查、前中後要做什麼事情、你要做到什麼監督等，這應該也不用那麼久，至少一個月可以吧？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:51:15.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:51:18.905000+08:00","text":"就是說整個完整的答案或是方法可能要花到兩到三個月，我們會後會來做。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:51:19.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:51:23.149000+08:00","text":"當然不是完整，你得先有流程，才可以細做嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:51:23.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:51:23.790000+08:00","text":"可以、可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:51:24.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:51:24.511000+08:00","text":"是不是？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:51:25.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:51:44.515000+08:00","text":"因為問這件事情不是只有麥寮的個案，興達電廠也有老舊機組延役的問題，然後剛剛也有討論到臺中還有燃煤機組未拆，但是立法院已經通過2028無煤中火相關決議，2050的淨零也已經是國家政策方向。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:51:45.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:00.537000+08:00","text":"所以現在的問題就是，從麥寮的案件看到，只要中央說供電韌性、能源安全為理由，老舊的燃煤機組就可能被重新調度，地方政府若核准操作許可，污染的壓力由地方扛。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:02.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:08.163000+08:00","text":"如果你不核准又可能被說影響供電，這就是今天的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:08.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:33.934000+08:00","text":"所以要請教部長，未來針對已達除役年限卻又因為供電理由延役、備轉或短期調度的老舊燃煤機組，你應該要建立一套最低環境檢核機制，而且你至少應該也要要求排放增量評估、健康風險檢核、替代調度方案，以及與居民溝通的紀錄，你是不是應該要要求這些事情？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:34.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:42.639000+08:00","text":"這個我們會來研議，因為這些在蓋之前其實都有做過環境影響評估，現在又一個新的局勢，我們會來研究一下該怎麼處理。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:43.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:45.081000+08:00","text":"部長，蓋之前是二十幾年前了。對啊！當時……對啊！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:45.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:46.802000+08:00","text":"到現在已經差了這麼多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:46.802000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:47.802000+08:00","text":"當然會有一些新的做法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:47.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:49.783000+08:00","text":"你現在的角色應該要積極的介入。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:50.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:52:56.347000+08:00","text":"但是因為到底他們是適用於哪一個法規，然後什麼樣的條件我們可以來監督，我們會來研議一下。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:52:57.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:53:18.159000+08:00","text":"所以我現在問起來，今天整個質詢就是我知道你們根本沒有準備，我也問過你們環境部，你們現在目前就是沒有這些東西，所以我才要告訴你，你是不是願意研議一下燃煤發電退場的時程，或是透過剛剛講的修法，你要去了解修法、專法，或者是給地方政府更明確的環境把關的依據，這個就是我今天整個主題要告訴你的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:53:19.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:53:26.524000+08:00","text":"也報告委員，這個其實是一個突發的中東局勢的影響，沒有人想到的，所以各國都因應這個突發事情，我們也是第一次遇到。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:53:26.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:53:28.265000+08:00","text":"其實部長也不是這樣子喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:53:30.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:09.355000+08:00","text":"在還沒中東戰爭之前，我們已經多次講過我們的能源有問題、能源配比是有國安問題的，當初有這個國安問題，我們也一直在堅持為什麼老舊的燃煤機組要拆掉，就是因為擔心到時候你又說供電有問題，要有韌性，然後把老舊機組再重新啟動，所以這不是今天的問題，部長，我相信以你的專業和關心環境的態度，你應該有更積極的作為，因為這個事情真的不是臨時發生的，我們之前從2024年本席上任以來，已經講過很多次有關能源配比的問題、影響到環境的問題。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:09.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:20.898000+08:00","text":"當然這個我們必須要跟經濟部一起討論、面對這個事情，但是關於現在法規如何、設在哪裡、做檢核機制，我們的確內部要做一些跨部會的討論。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:20.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:29.605000+08:00","text":"部長，所以我跟你說，調度能源是經濟部的權責，可是環境部的責任就是要幫我們把關環境和空污。是。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:31.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:36.632000+08:00","text":"所以這就是跟剛剛一樣，一個月內要給本席一個初步的檢討報告嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:37.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:37.633000+08:00","text":"對，初步的報告，謝謝。好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:39.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:44.801000+08:00","text":"最後我想要請一下次長，還有能源署署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:44.801000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:54:51.137000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:54:51.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:01.043000+08:00","text":"最後還是要請教一下，上一位王育敏委員剛剛在質詢的時候，有問到老舊的一號、二號中火的部分，你們確定年底會把它拆除？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:03.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:08.647000+08:00","text":"當新一號機組上線了之後，我們年底就開始作業。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:08.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:10.148000+08:00","text":"就是會把老舊的拆除，確定？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:10.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:12.710000+08:00","text":"你們可以承諾？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:12.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:12.710000+08:00","text":"啟動把它拆除。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:12.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:13.130000+08:00","text":"那要多久？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:14.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:16.372000+08:00","text":"啟動之後要多久才會完全拆除？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:16.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:21.875000+08:00","text":"拆除的時間可能一到兩年左右的時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:21.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:22.916000+08:00","text":"2027年底可以完成拆除？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:25.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:25.517000+08:00","text":"一年嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:25.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:27.357000+08:00","text":"因為今年2026年底開始嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:27.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:31.139000+08:00","text":"我們希望在2028年底之前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:31.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:32.679000+08:00","text":"2028年底之前就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:33.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:40.662000+08:00","text":"因為我們還要拆一個煙囪，那個煙囪相當高，這個必須要有一些安全的問題要去處理，當然機組的部分……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:41.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:49.925000+08:00","text":"所以你承諾2028年前要把它拆除完畢？2028年前？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:50.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:55:52.187000+08:00","text":"所以你現在是說2028年底前？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:55:53.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:03.374000+08:00","text":"我們盡快，我們現在是希望在2028年底之前把它完成，拆除的時間若是可以更順利的話，當然可以提早。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:03.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:06.556000+08:00","text":"好，我要請次長承諾一定要做到，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:06.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:06.836000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:06.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:06.856000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:07.356000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:10.213143+08:00","text":"謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:10.513143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:14.798857+08:00","text":"我們休息20分鐘用餐，休息後繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:15.098857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:16.241714+08:00","text":"休息（11時56分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:16.541714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:18.256000+08:00","text":"繼續開會（12時16分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:18.556000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:19.698857+08:00","text":"繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T11:56:19.998857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T11:56:22.856000+08:00","text":"現在請林淑芬委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}