{"error":false,"id":["168976"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168976,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168976","日期":"2026-04-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-29T13:42:40+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-29T13:51:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6301273cb2dfee84fd293af665428d99c71d97a3abd72074d59f04ba8a0a425714e39bd33e9c15bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"13:42:40 - 13:51:20","會議時間":"2026-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n審查\n一、委員羅廷瑋等43人擬具「空氣污染防制法第二十七條、第二十八條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「空氣污染防制法第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n【詢答及處理】\n【4月29日上午9時起及下午2時30分起為一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":7.388468750000001,"end":9.160343750000003,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":9.46409375,"end":10.13909375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":10.13909375,"end":11.016593750000002,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":14.89784375,"end":15.775343750000001,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":15.775343750000001,"end":51.58409375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":51.76971875,"end":57.99659375,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":58.21596875,"end":62.080343750000004,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":61.59096875,"end":64.54409375,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":64.54409375,"end":70.90596875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":71.53034375,"end":72.57659375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":73.33596875,"end":77.18346875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":77.67284375,"end":78.56721875000001,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":79.20846875000001,"end":79.71471875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":79.93409375,"end":118.49346875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":118.88159375000001,"end":138.25409375,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":136.54971875,"end":137.14034375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":138.18659375000001,"end":166.68846875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":166.94159375,"end":170.75534375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":171.16034375,"end":175.64909375000002,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":175.93596875,"end":178.56846875000002,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":179.34471875,"end":234.91409375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":235.13346875000002,"end":245.39346875,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":245.59596875000003,"end":264.20909375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":263.82096875,"end":264.02346875,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":264.34409375,"end":294.70221875000004,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":295.09034375000005,"end":305.56971875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":306.24471875,"end":306.49784375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":307.10534375000003,"end":331.00034375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":330.61221875,"end":359.35034375000004,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":359.62034375,"end":425.82096875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":426.42846875000004,"end":427.86284375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":428.16659375,"end":429.04409375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":429.66846875000005,"end":476.14221875000004,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":476.34471875,"end":505.28534375000004,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":504.25596875,"end":515.96721875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":516.10221875,"end":518.05971875,"speaker_score":0.7},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":516.11909375,"end":516.1359687500001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員瑩","start":516.67596875,"end":517.35096875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"李委員柏毅","start":519.5447187500001,"end":520.9622187500001,"speaker_score":0.7}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.779,"end":9.703,"text":"謝主席麻煩請彭部長有請彭部長"},{"start":15.229,"end":39.346,"text":"陳委員好部長好這次討論空污法的修法重點包括了擴大地方的裁量權還有可強制業者減排跟限制或禁止燃料使用以及縮短許可展延的期限等等的提案我想請教一下部長我們空污法的立法目的是什麼"},{"start":40.166,"end":67.551,"text":"是不是以這個防制空氣污染保障國民健康為目的還是以這個管控國家電力資源調節電力供需為目的呢好謝謝委員你這個形容非常好我們是防制空氣污染保障國民健康所以絕對不是要去控管這個國家電力資源絕對不是那個不是我在空污法裡面的權責好那我再請教喔空污法第27條的主體是什麼"},{"start":69.562,"end":78.203,"text":"是不是這個公私場所公跟私的場所或者是這個地方縣市政府公私場所"},{"start":79.261,"end":100.487,"text":"好那如果現行的這個第27條呢是為了鼓勵這個業者呢主動改善新舊製程污染的機制喔那但是我們草案改為這個地方政府變成主體反而可以要求業者在原本的排放標準下再降低排放總量與濃度那這樣子喔"},{"start":102.728,"end":117.719,"text":"形同強制減量那對於這個發電業的業者是不是空污法就變成了這個太上的電業法那地方縣市政府實際就變成具有控管國家電力資源的機關了"},{"start":119.845,"end":137.954,"text":"謝謝委員這個非常精闢的點出這個這次要修改的所有問題喔謝謝委員這麼真實著解因為其實我們不排斥任何家園空屋的做法但是這次如果修成這樣就如同委員說的就是一個太上的電業法恐怕而且他波及的不是只有電力業所有的產業全部受影響"},{"start":138.394,"end":166.303,"text":"沒錯那我們再看一下根據空污法第20條的規定公司場所固定污染源排放空氣污染物應符合排放標準那直轄市縣市主管機關得應特殊需要擬定個別較嚴之排放標準那報請中央主管機關會商有關機關核定之那我請教部長這裡的個別是指"},{"start":167.024,"end":170.458,"text":"个别的县市政府呢还是指个别污染源"},{"start":171.549,"end":198.639,"text":"個別污染源因為是縣市政府提出的個別的污染源是好那我們再來看喔為什麼本席要特別在這裡釐清這個個別到底是指什麼因為第20條的排放標準即使個別縣市政府要訂定更嚴格的標準畢竟他還是要送到這個中央主管機關來核定但是到了第27條"},{"start":200.38,"end":220.374,"text":"反而規定了公司場所得向地方縣市政府申請改善其排放空氣污染物總量及濃度經審查核准後其個別污染源之排放得不受第20條第一項及第二項所定排放標準之限制"},{"start":221.215,"end":242.01,"text":"也就是為了改善空污的總量跟濃度27條容許地方政府可以訂定個別的污染源的排放標準這樣的解釋部長可以回應嗎謝謝委員你非常專業的點出所有的問題就是這個問題如果這個問題定下去改的話會造成台灣一國25次這個台灣會亂掉"},{"start":245.692,"end":258.842,"text":"所以其實我們就算今天不修法地方政府也可以依據現行空污法的第27條來向中央申請核定空污的總量跟濃度對不對對沒錯"},{"start":264.486,"end":278.88,"text":"所以今天的修法其實是居心可異不知道到底是愛台灣還是要亂台灣本席合理的提出這樣的質疑那如果我們這一次真的同意了第27條的修訂"},{"start":281.002,"end":305.364,"text":"放寬地方政府的裁量權那麼就抵觸了第20條的規定兩條法律彼此互相衝突這個控護法可能就真的是自愛難行了我們各縣市的這個可能標準不一造成一國多治那國家在整個電力調控就變成不可控制了"},{"start":307.385,"end":319.354,"text":"這樣一來我們電廠跟工廠的營運也會受到限制限制面臨關廠的風險這將會帶來很可怕不可逆的傷害所以對於產業投資環境跟經濟發展的整個帶來相當大的衝擊部長你認不認同會有這樣的狀況發生"},{"start":331.082,"end":359.017,"text":"非常謝謝委員這麼長期以來在外環委員會的專業就是一起等於是很簡單的又易懂的點出了這次這個要修法可能會衍生的所有的問題那我非常贊同委員的一個看法那也希望這樣的一個意見能夠讓社會大眾能夠理解這個雖然對我們來說我們是越演越好但是如果有些言到說這個制度無法推動就會造成委員你說到的不可逆的傷害"},{"start":359.659,"end":385.607,"text":"是那我們最後再看一下第28條的修正草案的部分現行只有規範燃料成分與這個混燒比例但是修法後地方政府可公告禁止或限制使用生煤燃油SRF燃料甚至訂定更嚴格的規範那這樣子等同說地方政府具有將這個使用"},{"start":386.187,"end":404.619,"text":"石化燃料的工業直接關廠的影響力那這樣的職權呢它不僅影響說整個火力發電廠甚至連同使用鍋爐的各個這個製造業都會受到衝擊那許多工廠跟鍋爐業者呢會因為這個燃料的這個受限而無法營運"},{"start":405.64,"end":425.573,"text":"那影響的層面絕對不是只有發電廠而已那我想在修法的同時即便就是說大家關心這個火力發電廠的問題但是我想我們這個一筆劃下去自改掉其實整個影響的層面其實我們都需要面面俱到"},{"start":426.474,"end":455.692,"text":"那最後我想就是說在這邊也勉勵期許我們環境部各個官員你們要勇於利用你們的專業來辯護你們的立場那現行的環境部的事也其實在我們彭博士我們的部長彭博士的帶領之下其實已經是讓台灣的這個整個環境政策越來越與國際接軌那你們的報告其實不管簡報"},{"start":456.332,"end":475.851,"text":"或者是內容一向都非常專業那即便本席不是這個環境領域的專家我們都可以看到這一次提案修法的隱憂了所以希望環境部你們能夠堅持專業勇於辯護我這邊在這裡提出這樣的提醒跟期許"},{"start":476.891,"end":501.548,"text":"謝謝委員的專業 因為你的鼓勵我們會努力堅守我們原來的信任的價值對我來說 空污一定要改善 要越來越好我們現在遇到瓶頸 要各種機為九事的這種多重去處理那我們也在往這個方向當中那這個修改修改法 如果法是嚴格有用的我們也會全力的支持 但是如果會造成台灣很亂就如同委員說的 我們會秉持我們的專業勇敢的辯護 謝謝委員的"},{"start":504.77,"end":517.509,"text":"我們修法是為了要解決問題不是來添亂的所以我們既然看到這個未來的亂象了所以我們今天一定要在這裡提出嚴正的警告謝謝委員 謝謝我們會努力 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:42:47.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:42:48.721000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請彭部長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:42:48.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:42:49.703000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:42:55.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:42:55.449000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:42:55.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:42:56.310000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:42:57.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:14.202000+08:00","text":"這次討論空污法的修法，重點包括了擴大地方的裁量權，還有可強制業者減排跟限制或禁止燃料使用，以及縮短許可展延期限等等的提案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:15.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:19.346000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下部長，我們空污法的立法目的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:20.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:25.747000+08:00","text":"是不是以防制空氣污染、保障國民健康為目的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:26.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:31.308000+08:00","text":"還是以管控國家電力資源、調節電力供需為目的呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:32.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:33.328000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:33.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:37.689000+08:00","text":"你這個形容非常好，我們是防制空氣污染、保障國民健康。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:38.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:41.870000+08:00","text":"所以絕對不是要去控管國家電力資源？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:42.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:42.250000+08:00","text":"絕對不是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:42.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:44.550000+08:00","text":"那個不是在空污法裡面的權責。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:45.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:47.551000+08:00","text":"我再請教，空污法第二十七條的主體是什麼？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:49.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:57.020000+08:00","text":"是不是公私場所或是地方縣（市）政府？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:43:57.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:43:59.261000+08:00","text":"公私場所。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:00.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:20.287000+08:00","text":"如果現行的第二十七條是為了鼓勵業者主動改善新舊製程污染的機制，但是我們草案改為地方政府變成主體，反而可以要求業者在原本的排放標準下，再降低排放總量與濃度。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:20.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:37.699000+08:00","text":"這樣形同強制減量，對於發電業的業者，是不是空污法就變成了太上的電業法，而地方縣（市）政府實際就變成具有控管國家電力資源的機關了？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:39.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:43.727000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員非常精闢地點出這次要修改的所有問題！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:44.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:44.908000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員這麼真知灼見。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:46.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:57.954000+08:00","text":"其實我們不排斥任何加嚴空污的做法，但是這次如果修成這樣，就如同委員說的，就是一個太上的電業法，而且它波及的不是只有電力業，是所有的產業全部受影響。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:58.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:58.954000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:44:59.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:44:59.814000+08:00","text":"我們再看一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:00.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:45:22.582000+08:00","text":"根據空污法第二十條的規定：「公私場所固定污染源排放空氣污染物，應符合排放標準……直轄市、縣（市）主管機關得因特殊需要，擬訂個別較嚴之排放標準，報請中央主管機關會商有關機關核定之。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:23.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:45:30.438000+08:00","text":"」我請教部長，這裡的「個別」是指個別縣（市）政府，還是指個別污染源？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:31.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:45:35.391000+08:00","text":"個別污染源，因為是縣（市）政府提出的個別污染源。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:36.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:45:38.092000+08:00","text":"好，那我們再來看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:39.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:45:45.014000+08:00","text":"為什麼本席要特別在這裡釐清這個「個別」到底是指什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:45.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:45:57.119000+08:00","text":"因為根據第二十條的排放標準，即使個別縣（市）政府要訂定更嚴格的標準，他還是要送到中央主管機關來核定。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:45:57.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:20.354000+08:00","text":"但是到了第二十七條，反而規定了公私場所「得向直轄市、縣（市）主管機關申請改善其排放空氣污染物總量及濃度，經審查核准後，其個別污染源之排放，得不受依第二十條第一項及第二項所定排放標準之限制。」","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:46:21.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:32.023000+08:00","text":"也就是說，為了改善空污的總量跟濃度，第二十七條容許地方政府可以訂定個別污染源的排放標準。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:46:32.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:35.665000+08:00","text":"這樣的解釋，部長可以回應嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:46:35.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:39.508000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，你非常專業地點出所有的問題，就是這個問題。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:46:39.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:41.990000+08:00","text":"如果這個問題訂下去、更改的話，會造成臺灣一國25制，臺灣會亂掉。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:46:45.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:58.822000+08:00","text":"所以，其實我們就算今天不修法，地方政府也可以依據現行空污法的第二十七條，來向中央申請核定空污的總量跟濃度，對不對？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:46:58.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:46:58.842000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:04.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:12.754000+08:00","text":"所以今天的修法其實是居心可議，不知道到底是愛臺灣還是要亂臺灣？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:12.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:15.257000+08:00","text":"本席合理地提出這樣的質疑。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:16.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:26.367000+08:00","text":"如果我們這次真的同意了第二十七條的修訂，放寬地方政府的裁量權，那麼就牴觸了第二十條的規定。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:27.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:34.134000+08:00","text":"兩條法律彼此互相衝突，空污法可能就真的是窒礙難行了。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:35.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:45.344000+08:00","text":"我們各縣（市）可能標準不一，造成一國多制，那國家在整個電力調控就變成不可控制了。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:47.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:55.531000+08:00","text":"這樣一來，我們電廠跟工廠的營運也會受到限制，甚至面臨關廠的風險，將會帶來很可怕且不可逆的傷害。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:55.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:58.473000+08:00","text":"對於產業投資環境跟經濟發展，也會帶來相當大的衝擊。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:47:58.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:47:59.334000+08:00","text":"部長，你認不認同會有這樣的狀況發生？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:48:11.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:48:23.228000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝委員這麼長期以來在衛環委員會的專業，很簡單又易懂地點出了這次要修法可能會衍生的所有問題。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:48:23.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:48:29.272000+08:00","text":"我非常贊同委員的看法，也希望這樣的意見能夠讓社會大眾理解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:48:30.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:48:39.659000+08:00","text":"雖然對我們來說，我們是越嚴越好，但是如果有些嚴到讓這個制度無法推動，就會造成委員你說的不可逆的傷害。是。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:48:40.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:49:00.825000+08:00","text":"我們最後再看一下第二十八條修正草案的部分，現行只有規範燃料成分與混燒比例，但修法後地方政府可公告禁止或限制使用生煤、燃油、SRF等燃料，甚至訂定更嚴格的規範。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:49:01.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:49:29.303000+08:00","text":"這樣子等同於地方政府具有將使用石化燃料的工業直接關廠的影響力，這樣的職權它不僅影響整個火力發電廠，甚至連同使用鍋爐的各個製造業都會受到衝擊，許多工廠跟鍋爐業者會因為燃料的受限而無法營運，影響的層面絕對不是只有發電廠而已。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:49:30.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:49:45.553000+08:00","text":"我想在修法的同時，即便大家關心火力發電廠的問題，但是我想我們一筆劃下去字改掉，其實整個影響的層面我們都需要面面俱到。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:49:48.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:00.623000+08:00","text":"最後，我想在這邊也勉勵、期許我們環境部各個官員，你們要勇於利用你們的專業來辯護你們的立場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:01.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:13.210000+08:00","text":"現行環境部的視野在我們部長彭博士的帶領之下，其實已經是讓臺灣的整個環境政策越來越與國際接軌。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:13.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:18.955000+08:00","text":"你們的報告，其實不管簡報或者是內容，一向都非常專業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:19.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:26.742000+08:00","text":"即便本席不是環境領域的專家，我們都可以看到這次提案修法的隱憂了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:27.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:35.831000+08:00","text":"所以希望環境部你們能夠堅持專業、勇於辯護，我這邊在這裡提出這樣的提醒跟期許。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:36.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:37.832000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的專業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:37.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:42.335000+08:00","text":"因為你的鼓勵，我們會努力堅守我們原來信任的價值。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:42.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:45.257000+08:00","text":"對我來說，空污一定要改善，要越來越好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:45.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:53.162000+08:00","text":"我們現在也遇到瓶頸，要雞尾酒式地多重去處理，我們也正在往這個方向當中。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:53.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:50:57.665000+08:00","text":"這樣的修改，如果法是嚴格有用的，我們也會全力地支持。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:50:57.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:01.528000+08:00","text":"但是如果會造成臺灣很亂，就如同委員說的，我們會秉持我們的專業，勇敢地辯護，謝謝委員的勉勵。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:04.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:08.255000+08:00","text":"我們修法是為了要解決問題，不是來添亂的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:08.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:16.507000+08:00","text":"我們既然看到未來的亂象了，我們今天一定要在這裡提出嚴正的警告，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:16.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:17.489000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們會努力。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:17.989000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:20.560429+08:00","text":"謝謝陳瑩委員的質詢。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:20.860429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:23.146143+08:00","text":"一、說明及詢答完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:23.446143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:31.731857+08:00","text":"委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:32.031857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:36.031857+08:00","text":"二、委員另有要求期限者，從其所定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:36.331857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:55.189000+08:00","text":"三、委員羅廷瑋等43人擬具空氣污染防制法第二十七條、第二十八條、第三十條條文修正草案等2案尚未審查完竣，另擇期繼續審查，並於逐條審查前擇期舉辦公聽會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:55.489000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:51:59.489000+08:00","text":"本日上午會議到此結束，現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:51:59.789000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:52:02.360429+08:00","text":"下午兩點半繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:52:02.660429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:52:03.803286+08:00","text":"休息（13時52分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-29T13:52:04.103286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-29T13:52:05.817571+08:00","text":"繼續開會（14時32分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}