{"error":false,"id":["168978"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168978,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168978","日期":"2026-04-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-29T14:58:13+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-29T15:13:25+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6301273cb2dfee84ae95656f189ea11e84e55221ec8869c0ddedb1387a11a8921027fd842694b5725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"14:58:13 - 15:13:25","會議時間":"2026-04-29T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（下午2時30分起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查\n(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員林月琴等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員王育敏等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)\n二、審查\n(一)委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「醫療法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員洪申翰、賴惠員等17人擬具「醫療法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員盧縣一等16人擬具「醫療法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員鍾佳濱等19人擬具「醫療法第八十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員王正旭等24人擬具「醫療法增訂第七十一條之一條文草案」案。\n(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「醫療法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「醫療法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員盧縣一等17人擬具「醫療法第四十九條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員蘇巧慧等19人擬具「醫療法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。\n(十)委員賴惠員等20人擬具「醫療法第八十四條及第一百零四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員李彥秀等16人擬具「醫療法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員陳瑩等16人擬具「醫療法第八十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員劉建國等18人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)委員劉建國等16人擬具「醫療法第四十九條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五)委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六)委員劉建國等16人擬具「醫療法增訂第九十八條之一條文草案」案。\n(十七)委員林思銘等23人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十八)委員羅智強等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十九)委員張嘉郡等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十)委員蘇清泉等22人擬具「醫療法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二十一)委員羅明才等16人擬具「醫療法第十條、第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十三)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十四)委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「醫療法第一百零二條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(二十四)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅詢答，下午1時30分起辦理發言】\n【4月29日上午9時起及下午2時30分起為一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.941593750000001,"end":9.531593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.68346875,"end":10.814093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.814093750000001,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.324093750000003,"end":14.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.47596875,"end":14.509718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.509718750000001,"end":89.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.24471875,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.93971875000001,"end":104.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.30159375000001,"end":141.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.91596875000002,"end":142.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.33346875,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.83471875,"end":149.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.56659375,"end":180.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.42909375000002,"end":199.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.30409375000002,"end":196.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.32471875000002,"end":199.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.64534375000002,"end":219.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.83846875,"end":206.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.11471875,"end":269.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.15471875000003,"end":261.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.65159375,"end":273.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.46971875,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.88284375,"end":307.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.26971875000004,"end":315.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.48409375,"end":326.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.11659375,"end":316.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.97659375,"end":321.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.36034375,"end":324.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.53721875,"end":324.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.69721875000005,"end":335.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.11346875000004,"end":338.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.90221875000003,"end":339.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.79221875,"end":345.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.55971875,"end":344.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.98534375,"end":350.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.39034375,"end":347.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.52471875000003,"end":365.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.40159375,"end":355.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.73909375,"end":355.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.11721875,"end":380.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.54284375000003,"end":370.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.60034375000004,"end":382.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.85721875,"end":385.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.02159375,"end":384.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.40971875,"end":387.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.05909375000005,"end":387.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.29534375000003,"end":389.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.61971875,"end":395.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.63159375000004,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.66534375000003,"end":396.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.68221875,"end":398.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.82534375,"end":398.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.24721875,"end":422.00721875000005},{"speaker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請時部長有請時長兩部長"},{"start":15.61,"end":40.33,"text":"市長今天因為下午有一個很大的消息所以本席還是需要跟您討論有非常多人都有來跟本席關心三班互併筆的問題之前在這個場合其實不同黨派的委員都有質詢過我有去翻了一下您過去的發言記錄你4月25號的時候說三班互併筆入法仍在評估中"},{"start":40.99,"end":57.106,"text":"然後4月28呢說要成立一個醫事人力優化研議推動小組來研擬這個期程配套那你也常常回答許多委員你提出這個整備計畫的事情可是今天大家就有點嚇到因為"},{"start":59.328,"end":65.931,"text":"4月28那個時候你都說要慢慢的研議可是今天媒體報導是今天下午就要入法而且是總統親自致電要求積極處理我是想問啦這個政策是你們評估成熟之後提出"},{"start":75.954,"end":82.958,"text":"還是說總統府要你們趕快處理還是說現在總統府看到好像有立法委員提出了所以他們也要趕快動作到底是怎麼來的因為這個跟你之前的發言紀錄差距很大應該是連貫性的就是這個護病筆的入法我們一直都在進行評估當中評估好了4月28才說要成立研議推動小組我們一定有一些"},{"start":105.47,"end":122.988,"text":"內部的評估然後接著就要開始進行程序那在程序的嚴謹上呢當然會要成立一個推動小組因為我們必須要這個多聽各界的聲音特別是可能相關的團體代表這些我們一定要討論的所以三班互併筆錄法這個"},{"start":124.93,"end":142.237,"text":"過去大家都很關心所以我們一直都在做評估跟關切這一些變化所以才會在114年就推出了這個護理改革的12項的改革策略其實都是在希望這個增加人力那麼來推動我是覺得蠻"},{"start":143.622,"end":162.517,"text":"蠻多人是覺得蠻突然的跟你之前發言差很多但是沒關係我們想要問一些細節就是你剛有講到緩衝期我們想知道緩衝期大概多久那你會不會有日出條款還有你這個12項整備計畫做完你才會修你剛所謂的執法還是你會同步進行"},{"start":163.958,"end":181.447,"text":"這個當然要在推動小組裡面去討論啦我如果通通都說完了那好像我們也不尊重這個到時候我們要邀請的對象但是您所關心的這些細節都會在這個推動小組的會議裡面去達到一個共識所以我們也想知道說你這個推動小組"},{"start":183.429,"end":199.026,"text":"預計多久以內會有全部的細節讓我們看嗎因為下午這樣子突然宣布可是我們外訪委員會沒有任何一個人收到完整的版本也沒有被正式告知我們一點細節都不知道那你剛剛講到啦涉及的層面很廣嘛"},{"start":199.867,"end":210.315,"text":"醫院能力配置健保支付急診擁捨怕後床這不是一個很小的政策我們也想知道你這筆錢要從哪裡來你要從公務預算來還是深耕健康台灣還是健保總額還是醫院自行吸收你現在初步總得給我們一點裁員的想法吧"},{"start":220.403,"end":245.602,"text":"這個裁員的想法我多次也提到那麼主要有來自於好幾個方向那麼一個是剛剛我提到的在114年執行到117年這4年的275億這個是行政院有核定當然到時候也都要經過立法院的審查通過也希望委員能夠支持那這個裡面就包含了這個護理人員的夜班津貼包含了"},{"start":246.443,"end":270.378,"text":"三班互併比的達標獎勵包含了新手這個護理導師制度還有一些標杆學習等等這些都會做這是一塊第二個呢在我們的這個深耕台灣計畫裡面這個是五年489億那這個當然也是逐年要在立法院審查通過也希望這個有支持啦那這個裡面呢就包含了"},{"start":272.919,"end":290.418,"text":"那第三個呢也還包含了這個健保裡面我們會調高這個護理費來這個讓這個醫院有這個能力來調升這個護理的薪資增加這個聘用的人員等等所以我們有這些措施那麼這些措施從"},{"start":290.979,"end":307.521,"text":"去年開始執行 114年開始那我們統計到今年的3月大概是叫前一個年度增加的這個護理人力大概在4900名左右所以已經開始在回到我們疫情前的水準那我們才要往後"},{"start":308.402,"end":319.432,"text":"如果是再更早我不敢講因為在前年其實它的人力的增加才2000多個而已我只想知道你們什麼時候會把這個詳細的資料送來為黃委員會給為黃委員會委員看畢竟你剛講你剛講的都很好但是最近還是有醫學中心的院長"},{"start":326.755,"end":344.463,"text":"有在媒體發生嗎這個相信您後面的長官也都知道啊還是有醫學中心的院長在提這個護理師離職非常嚴重的問題嗎好 我想這個你就給我一個時程就好我如果給你時程那我就是不尊重這個最懂小組的討論了嘛"},{"start":346.044,"end":363.431,"text":"你都已經直接發新聞了這個新聞媒體都報導了這個不是我們發的新聞是我受訪的時候大家關心所以我總是就像委員詢問我一樣我也必須要給出一些回應所以概念是這樣那麼如果是要入法"},{"start":364.191,"end":386.835,"text":"當然我們現在會考慮的是以這個醫療機構設置辦法那麼以醫療機構設置標準裡面去訂的話它也要經過法規的預告程序所以到時候一定會有完整的這個結論的時候才會開始進行那你給我們一個範圍你的時程 一個範圍就可以了一定在年底前 我說的也是年底前年底前 好好 我們要把它記錄下來謝謝 謝謝等一下沒有護理了"},{"start":390.66,"end":397.683,"text":"然後再來我們來看一下因為最近也非常多人關心上次是問你馬鈴薯嘛但是我沒有機會問到豬肉那這邊呢他這邊講了這個是我們的貿易壁壘報告今年的中間我幫你圈起來的地方他是說美國說我們去標示產地是不正確的暗示美國豬肉產品有食安疑慮但是對於所有的台灣人而言我看到這個東西是哪邊來的是很正常的"},{"start":419.754,"end":446.294,"text":"請問你認同他這個報告這樣子寫我跟委員說明在這個談判的過程當中我們堅持四大不變第一個國人敏感的部位仍然禁止輸入第二個所有的產地標示連產地標示不變包含散裝包裝還有場所飲食場所都需要這個標示產地所以這兩個不會變第三個在校園裡面仍然是採用國產豬"},{"start":447.635,"end":469.964,"text":"所以這個也不變第四個就是基改也不會變那些都不會變那麼另外呢我們所有的管理的源頭管理到所有的食安標準那麼我們都會嚴格把握好那我知道現在美國如果有進口豬肉你們標示不會變好這一點很好那再來呢在他們的這個報告裡面就寫到說台灣的茶廠"},{"start":471.445,"end":476.909,"text":"影響到他們的他這邊捲起來disrupting影響到他們運作啊影響到他們作業影響購買慾望那我也想問一下你們未來對於茶廠的標準有沒有變標準沒有變啊我剛剛提到標準不變啊那麼茶廠的你剛剛沒有講到茶廠啊還是不變啊茶廠標準我們沒有改變啊"},{"start":494.656,"end":499.939,"text":"我給你看一下這個是他未來他講的他說ART他跟我們台灣討論ART之後他會終止百分之百的查場另外他有一些限制如果說過去這個人有比較不好的紀錄你才可以去查場他已經寫得這麼明白了"},{"start":514.386,"end":543.045,"text":"他已經寫得這麼明白了所以我們很擔心啊因為之前有一些混裝肉標示不實的事件的時候我們曾經維持百分之百逐批查驗都沒有檢測出來你就浮動式調整你上次也講得很清楚都沒有檢測出來你就改成20到50後來又有一些混裝肉事件你又調高到百分之百可是他現在ART講得很清楚他的意思是說要終止百分之百查驗所以到底是哪裡沒變變很多"},{"start":544.926,"end":561.175,"text":"跟委員說明我一向講的都是我們邊境是按照風險程度來查驗所以常規是2到10%如果有問題就提高20到50%然後再更高就是逐批同樣的逐批的如果沒有問題的時候他也會調降風險等級"},{"start":565.158,"end":586.561,"text":"一路這樣這個是浮動式的我現在在問你說以後你如果遇到風險的時候因為他這邊ART已經講了要終止百分之百查驗但是你剛也提到以前你們會浮動式的調整所以我現在也想問你未來你有疑慮的時候你要如何又遵守ART然後又回到百分之百查驗"},{"start":586.981,"end":606.866,"text":"所有的國際貿易強調的就是透明公開我相信這個委員也會認同所以我們所有的查驗的方式是透明公開一致性原則所以我跟委員報告過去在美豬進來的我們抽驗一共報驗一萬多批裡面抽驗了4816批抽驗率是30%"},{"start":610.526,"end":635.251,"text":"不合格的是零所以理論上它是可以調降所以調到20到10就是這樣所以就是我們過去就是按這樣再調整所以我們還是照這樣再做如果查到了風險提高了自然就調升這個查驗的批次所以你的意思是說你以後還是會堅持如果有食安風暴食安疑慮的時候你會回到百分之百好那這邊"},{"start":638.872,"end":659.554,"text":"ART他也碰觸到這個Codex容許值這個你應該也知道啦他有講到說以後這個豬肝豬肌肉跟這個腎肝以外的他希望可以回到0.09用未來Codex的標準那這一點我們也想知道說你會不會改"},{"start":660.563,"end":681.402,"text":"我們現在的標準原則上都會跟國際採評跟CODES一樣的標準跟日韓新加坡也都是採取CODES的標準所以我們就會按照CODES的標準當然我們也經過國人的隱私機關的風險評估那也是可以在安全的容許範圍裡面那麼我們就"},{"start":682.403,"end":709.582,"text":"你的意思是說你現在已經經過評估了所以未來你有可能還是說已經確定就是會改成0.09我們有開過有做過風險評估也開過了專家會議所以會朝向Codex的標準來修訂就是0.09如果不是全部都是0.09它是不一樣的肌肉還是維持0.就是Muscle的部分還是0.01ppm"},{"start":712.364,"end":728.884,"text":"肝的部分是0.04ppm腎的部分是0.09ppm其他的部位採取0.04ppm這個跟CODES日韓的標準一樣那慘了我上次跟你講你寫過一篇文章教大家不要馬鈴薯發芽要挖掉"},{"start":729.625,"end":757.5,"text":"可以吃這是你們寫的不能吃不能吃發芽馬鈴薯這也是你們寫的2020年蔡政府的時候你說呢食藥署委託了很多專家裡面就有成功大學的教授進行風險評估那你針對不同年齡層還有敏感族群敏感族群就是比如說坐月子的小朋友幼兒老人育齡的女性嚴格訂定萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量"},{"start":758.26,"end":766.102,"text":"這跟你剛講的不一樣 你剛說腎是0.09這邊你寫的是0.04這個是當時候的標準 但是我們在114年可是你當時候最後一句話寫的是考量我們國人的攝食量 另諮詢會議專家建議訂定比國際更為嚴格的腎臟容許量標準"},{"start":782.566,"end":805.782,"text":"才能確保安全說明我們已經重新再做過評估啦所以沒有問題啦那你這篇要你要改了是不是你要改了2020年你要改了你要告訴大家說2020年新法一定優於舊法啊那不然立法院就不需要再修法啊所有的都在按照新的科學佔據你當時找的專家跟現在找的專家對我們的風險評估是他的計算方式不同"},{"start":813.186,"end":835.637,"text":"他考量到偏離了社會的常態他所放入的標準量沒有吃到這麼多啦簡單的講所以你的意思是說這些人對 重新再按照現行的國人的飲食習慣你的意思是說108年你委託的那些人國人的飲食習慣也在改變108年你委託的人太嚴格了你現在的意思是說你當時委託的人所有的標準都會滾動是國人的飲食習慣也會改變"},{"start":841.06,"end":868.639,"text":"檢驗的方式也在改變國際的標準也在移動所以我們都需要參考進來那我們想要看到這個東西你到底是怎麼做出來的好沒有問題好大概多久以內可以給這個學者都已經做完了嘛我們就送給委員參考好啊那你們對外講的是說你們會做出專家做出風險評估的人才最終還要再配合府院的指示所以到底是專家的意見重要還是府院的指示重要當然是專家的意見最重要啊"},{"start":868.959,"end":879.138,"text":"那你最後 江志剛表示最後整體評估會配合整個府院的指定應該是說整個實施的期程會搭配整個談判的進度來推動"},{"start":880.233,"end":907.903,"text":"好 那沒關係我們有幾個東西要你提供報告第一個你到底怎麼算出最後剩要改0.09ppm那你怎麼推翻你以前的這個東西食安 人民的這個飲食到底有改變什麼我是不知道 這個我們都經過了研究的評估你們是寫得蠻清楚的 你說依據國人的攝食量所以你也要提供我國人的攝食量 沒有問題好 那這什麼時候會給我這個報告很快就可以提供吧 好兩週內就可以提供"},{"start":908.203,"end":908.705,"text":"好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝陳清花委員的諮詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}