{"error":false,"id":["168987"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168987,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168987","日期":"2026-04-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-29T17:01:54+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-29T17:20:24+08:00","影片長度":"00:18:30","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6301273cb2dfee8483bffd802a13459284e55221ec8869c03db016e2cb5fd06f31d4186e9443af555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"17:01:54 - 17:20:24","會議時間":"2026-04-29T14:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：（下午2時30分起。若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、繼續審查\n(一)委員柯志恩等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員林月琴等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員王育敏等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n......(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)\n二、審查\n(一)委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「醫療法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員洪申翰、賴惠員等17人擬具「醫療法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員盧縣一等16人擬具「醫療法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員鍾佳濱等19人擬具「醫療法第八十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員王正旭等24人擬具「醫療法增訂第七十一條之一條文草案」案。\n(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「醫療法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「醫療法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員盧縣一等17人擬具「醫療法第四十九條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員蘇巧慧等19人擬具「醫療法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。\n(十)委員賴惠員等20人擬具「醫療法第八十四條及第一百零四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員李彥秀等16人擬具「醫療法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員陳瑩等16人擬具「醫療法第八十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員劉建國等18人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)委員劉建國等16人擬具「醫療法第四十九條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五)委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六)委員劉建國等16人擬具「醫療法增訂第九十八條之一條文草案」案。\n(十七)委員林思銘等23人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十八)委員羅智強等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十九)委員張嘉郡等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十)委員蘇清泉等22人擬具「醫療法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二十一)委員羅明才等16人擬具「醫療法第十條、第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十三)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十四)委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「醫療法第一百零二條條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(二十四)案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅詢答，下午1時30分起辦理發言】\n【4月29日上午9時起及下午2時30分起為一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.40096875,"end":12.501593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.72096875,"end":13.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.53034375,"end":18.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.42471875,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.13596875,"end":30.777218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.01346875,"end":31.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.39659375,"end":51.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.54596875,"end":56.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.73096875,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.65659375,"end":80.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.26284375,"end":101.71971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.92221875000001,"end":110.00534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.98846875000001,"end":140.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.61284375000001,"end":110.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.96284375,"end":112.70534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.54034375,"end":115.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.42971875,"end":121.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.64909375,"end":121.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.52346875,"end":144.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.08846875,"end":148.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.44659375,"end":150.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.49721875,"end":149.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.14659375000002,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.22659375,"end":157.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.89659375000002,"end":171.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.44284375,"end":178.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.55159375000002,"end":184.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.91346875000002,"end":187.54596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.69346875000002,"end":189.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.68909375,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.52596875,"end":238.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.93909375,"end":237.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.28909375,"end":245.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.16971875000002,"end":263.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.81471875000003,"end":249.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.03409375,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.08846875,"end":253.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.37784375,"end":265.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.30159375,"end":268.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.90034375,"end":270.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.67659375,"end":270.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.04346875000005,"end":277.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.84409375,"end":278.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.95784375,"end":281.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.49784375,"end":279.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.60721875,"end":281.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.97846875,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.99534375,"end":282.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.06284375,"end":282.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.11346875000004,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.14721875000004,"end":282.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.62784375,"end":287.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.67409375,"end":286.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.39534375,"end":288.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.68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謝謝主席 我們先請石部長請石同仁部長這裡也好部長好 我們今天討論醫療法修正草案那有一個提案呢 它非常的重要就是針對這個受雇一時的勞動權益要在醫療法裡面增訂保障專章首先我要請教一下 醫療法的立法精神是什麼"},{"start":36.728,"end":50.16,"text":"醫療法的立法精神就是為了要達成到我們整個國民的健康提供的醫療服務整個體系的資源跟品質要能夠維護"},{"start":52.588,"end":80.684,"text":"好我大概來我今天來宣讀一下就是這個為促進醫療世界健全發展合理分布醫療資源提高醫療品質保障病人權益增進國民健康特制定本法這裡面呢好像沒有談到以保障醫師的權益為目的如果沒有或者可能不符合立法精神的法條那訂定在這個醫療法裡面會不會怪怪的"},{"start":82.761,"end":107.286,"text":"其實在這個醫療品質或者是整個這個醫療制度的健全來講那麼人員的這個維護就是我們如果到講整個醫療體系主要是這個人力然後跟輸送體系delivery system跟這個manpower這個都是在在所謂的醫療資源裡面"},{"start":110.026,"end":134.268,"text":"所以每個法有每個法的重點那我又再看了一下這個案由就是有提到這個受僱醫師因為沒有受到勞動權益的保障那會產生醫界職場爭端恐危及國人醫療品質這個理由我想在這邊可能需要釐清一下然後請問部長說以前有沒有因為"},{"start":135.989,"end":150.355,"text":"這個醫界職場爭端而危及病人權益的案例有嗎在你印象裡面有這樣嗎我的印象裡面比較沒有這樣的好 因為大家都很有醫德啊"},{"start":152.481,"end":167.792,"text":"來我們繼續討論下去我所認識的醫師截至目前為止我認識的醫師都很好他沒有不會不顧醫學倫理而忘了這個醫師的誓詞那如果說僅因為醫療法沒有勞動權益專章"},{"start":172.535,"end":187.288,"text":"然後所以就可能會危及這個國人的醫療品質部長您自己也是醫師嘛那又是醫界最高首長你說你們醫師會這樣嗎這樣的理由會不會太沉重了一點"},{"start":190.158,"end":198.446,"text":"我們的醫師當然在畢業的時候都會有這個醫師誓詞來承諾對於我們這個行業我們所從醫的最重要的精神"},{"start":207.591,"end":230.248,"text":"那麼但是確實在目前的這個體系發展之後這多年發展之後那麼過去的醫師多數是像早些年都叫做自由業嘛他為他自己的所有的行為來負責任可是越來越多的醫師是屬於受僱啦"},{"start":231.51,"end":244.126,"text":"所以才會引發說受雇的醫師的權益誰來替他這個保障所以我想在法規的部分我們應該要也要重視只是說在這個"},{"start":246.289,"end":263.175,"text":"法律上我們要把它放在哪裡的問題那我相信部長您是文官出身而且有足夠的法學素養如果一部法律呢同時出現了其他法律的這個強制適用的話會不會就看起來"},{"start":264.775,"end":284.582,"text":"應該也是怪怪的因為我不知道部長你有沒有看過說一個A法律然後裡面訂定了但是訂定的是要遵守B、C、D法律的條文應該不太有這樣的案例那我們再看一下醫療法第一條確實剛剛委員提的這幾個"},{"start":289.884,"end":310.776,"text":"除非我們有例外規定啦不然重啟規定所以像這個就業保險法的他就業保險條例的規範那麼勞保條例有勞保條例的規範實災也有他實災其實現在就是可以適用現在就適用啦所以不需要修醫療法也已經適用因為你看一下在醫療法第一條"},{"start":311.937,"end":329.157,"text":"我們也是有寫這個本法未規定者適用其他法律的規定嘛這樣已經其實就是有這樣的明定那我舉這次的例子新增的這個24條之一要求要符合這個勞工保險條例的人員全部都要參加勞工保險"},{"start":329.758,"end":357.771,"text":"那要不要參加勞工保險不是應該就要在這個勞工保險條例裡面訂定嗎你剛剛部長自己有講啊那特別是這個勞保條例第六條就是明訂參加勞保的行業別跟身份別那同樣的道理就業保險法 災保法那全民健康保險法這些勞動部主管的法令通通寫在這個醫療法的條文裡面符合法律的原則嗎這看起來是很奇怪的啊"},{"start":358.451,"end":386.918,"text":"所以這些法都有訂定可以參加的這些行業的這個條文所以我們進一步來看的話如果醫療法訂了那其他的像專業的這個律師事務所的律師還有這個會計事務所的會計師他們要不要也要修訂他們的律師法還有這個會計師法的條文呢如果按照這樣的邏輯來看那我們每一個師每一個通通都要修一下了嘛對不對"},{"start":388.609,"end":405.809,"text":"那我想是這樣 我講這麼多我其實大家不要誤會我是相當支持要保障我們所有專業勞動者的權益但是涉及這個勞動權益的立法就是應該在這個就應該定在這個特別規範的這個勞動保護的這個專屬的法律裡面"},{"start":409.773,"end":422.774,"text":"我想部長您跟這個洪聖翰部長現在都是那個的閣員那這一次的提案呢我們洪部長他又是主題案人所以剛好他又是擔任這個勞動部部長所以本席具體建議"},{"start":424.073,"end":445.584,"text":"部長你應該要通知就是轉資那個洪部長是不是由這個勞動部主動來提出這個勞保條例救福法等等的這個法律的修正草案然後再由衛福部來評估協助然後經行政院通過後再提出這樣的程序建議部長覺得這樣有沒有比較好一點"},{"start":446.757,"end":473.132,"text":"因為以現行的這個法律如果已經有所規範就按照現行的這個各該法律規範就好除非我們有特殊例外的情形才在我們的法律裡面去規定所以剛剛本席具體建議部長你可以參考一下你們應該常見面啦常見面好那這個部分你們可以討論討論好謝謝我另外也要部長留步那另外請這個財政部"},{"start":475.935,"end":476.456,"text":"財政部的誰複稅署嗎"},{"start":482.328,"end":507.307,"text":"我先說明一下這個在本席在這一次的這個醫療法的有提出第88條的修正案那我先說明一下本席的提案內容所指的偏鄉不是只有衛福部所列的交通不便的地方而是還有55個這個原鄉全部都包括在內"},{"start":509.088,"end":526.302,"text":"另外我會提到這個法案的原因是因為我從去年我在委員會裡面呢就不斷的在提出這樣的概念就是希望對於偏鄉的醫事人員可以給他們有那麼一點點的這個鼓勵跟優惠是"},{"start":527.503,"end":545.404,"text":"而且這樣的優惠他是不需要經過醫院的而是直接受惠於所有的醫事人員因為對於這個偏鄉醫事人員的這個所有的獎勵或加成只要透過醫院之後都會進入醫院的這個大水庫內我想這個問題"},{"start":547.026,"end":567.32,"text":"我們在未還其實很多委員都有提到啦那醫事人員真正收到的其實是打折再打折之後的這些獎勵那有時候還會被變相視為說薪水的一部分所以根本就沒有達到這個獎勵的效果那像我之前提到的住院護理住院這個"},{"start":570.182,"end":596.841,"text":"護理費偏鄉醫院的加成根本沒有實質進到偏鄉護理師的薪資這個是一個既定的事實那去年呢本席一直在這裡提出說希望推動這個偏鄉醫護的特別扣除額那我和財政部多次的開會財政部是大力的反彈說稅法不該輕易的修正那本席才左思右想這個山不轉路轉我們轉來轉去想到"},{"start":599.822,"end":622.291,"text":"才用就是說我們來改題這個醫療法88條的這個修正在這個醫事人員的主觀法令直接規定醫事人員部分收入免納所得那本期的提案呢除了這個莊惠雄委員共提之外呢還有王振旭委員當然他在其他委員他在委員會也針對這個內容諮詢了兩次那"},{"start":626.073,"end":639.646,"text":"我想也謝謝石部長他都一直很支持這樣的一個修正但我在這邊我想要再就是說請教財政部你們今天來這邊來列席請教一下你們的看法"},{"start":642.396,"end":670.663,"text":"跟委員報告目前各行各業所有的薪資所得不管它的行業別是什麼那現在都是平等的對待都是要平等就是就是你們說的齊頭是要平等嘛你們也之前也頒出了憲法第七條嘛法律之前要人人這個人人平等嘛不管不管是性別啦政黨啦還是還是所有一切的一切通通都要平等嘛"},{"start":673.423,"end":687.508,"text":"這個我早就知道你們會這麼提那我想是這樣我提這個醫療法修法希望這個偏鄉醫事人員部分收入免稅的概念它不是首創我們來看一下"},{"start":689.109,"end":717.632,"text":"產業創新條例就針對研發者或投資的個人公司給予這個付稅上的優惠那為什麼鼓勵產業創新就可以那鼓勵偏鄉醫師人員卻不行那個不好意思那部長你可以先回座休息一下了這個部分產業創新條例我剛剛舉的例子就是我們鼓勵產業創新可以鼓勵偏鄉醫師人員就不行"},{"start":719.005,"end":720.45,"text":"可不可以告訴大家為什麼"},{"start":723.466,"end":749.501,"text":"報告委員那個產業創新條例是有特定的希望他從事特定的投資行為那針對他從事的特定投資行為就是你們有有特定期待的一個項目可以多一點人投資那我們一樣啊我們這個偏鄉偏鄉離老的部分我們也是希望有多一點的這個醫事人員投入啊我想雖然這個"},{"start":751.582,"end":779.709,"text":"品項 項目不同但是要解決問題的概念方式是相同的那政府體恤農民耕作的辛苦那要面對許多的這個天然災害的風險所以自78年起個人自立耕作的農民成本認定是百分之百這段文字是財政部今年1月回覆立法院財政委員會的文字內容農民很辛苦"},{"start":780.549,"end":809.969,"text":"本席絕對支持那但是願意到偏鄉服務貢獻的醫師人員他們選擇的是一個生活機能比較差交通不便薪資也不一定比較高的地方去服務他們也很辛苦他們的辛苦也不會亞於這些農民農民種植農作物讓我們吃可以吃得飽吃得健康醫事人員所做的一切一切的這個醫療行為也是在幫助我們"},{"start":810.609,"end":828.761,"text":"要活得下去要活得好活得健康所以當然這些都可以給他們租稅上的鼓勵嘛所以如果說還要再講到稅法財政部你們的你們覺得說你們主管的這個所謂的稅法有合乎你們所謂的齊頭是平等嗎"},{"start":829.682,"end":853.035,"text":"那我還可以再講一個喔就是在這個房屋租金支出特別扣除而來說我是支持要減輕租屋族的壓力但是大家想想在座每一位都是租房子嗎我們不是每一個人都租房子欸所以財政部你們覺得說這樣子是合乎所謂的公平嗎如果要按照你們的邏輯去比較的話"},{"start":856.401,"end":884.787,"text":"報告委員剛剛舉的這些稅法規定都是只要符合要件人人都能使用沒有職業別或者是地區別的差別待遇但是所以我們在台東的蘭嶼綠島他們的我說這些交通的建設這些醫療資源就有很明顯的差別啊所以我們想盡辦法可以在"},{"start":886.75,"end":900.855,"text":"盡量來說短這些差距今天講這麼多我不是要來跟你辯論的是請你們就你們平等的這個邏輯上想辦法讓我們平等對不對所以你們麻煩你們腦筋可以轉個彎"},{"start":908.7,"end":928.085,"text":"那不是說財政部認為的公平就是公平那我們想要達到的公平就不是公平啊好所以因為我想講了這麼久其實我想問一個問題如果按照本席的這個修法後的版本每年會減少多少稅收這個"},{"start":933.942,"end":959.857,"text":"目前沒有辦法評估因為沒有所有這些醫護人員的相關的資料那我們跟你們討論了這麼長的時間你們也沒有想要試著了解你們就直接反對啦我這樣講沒錯吧你覺得這樣是對的嗎不是任何事情都你要反對有反對你要去試算啊那你們可不可以回去算一下那可能要有那個你都沒有資料部長可以馬上提供給他們嗎"},{"start":962.932,"end":969.159,"text":"不是不是多少就是說他沒有那個醫事人員的資料在偏鄉"},{"start":971.892,"end":993.852,"text":"對啊所以這個你們提供就你們可以大概抓一下數字嘛那我再問你這個產業創新條例就針對個人研發投資新創提供的多項這個稅務優惠那這個部分啦你們算過就是前年去年就減少多少這個稅收的部分"},{"start":994.826,"end":1019.949,"text":"這個目前手頭上沒有 是不是會後再提供給委員好 那我就請你算算剛剛那個齁 然後再比較一下你們要去試算啦 如果說對 針對這個偏鄉離島的議事人員減少這些部分稅收 然後我們財政會垮掉你就來跟我講嘛 我就測案啊委員我們不是用財政垮掉這個理由的"},{"start":1022.426,"end":1037.338,"text":"所以他就根本不是個理由不會垮掉嘛因為不要忘了我們前年我們前年這個稅收超徵多少五千多億欸搞得後來還立委提案還每人普發一萬這些錢分那麼一點點"},{"start":1038.599,"end":1066.157,"text":"去用在救救我們去把我們的這個醫事人員的部分給他們補貼一些這樣有什麼不好然後讓我們偏鄉的這些人這些居民可以有多一點的醫事人員願意留在我們的地方這樣有什麼不好都是你都在做善事啊市委員我們是建議是說由主管機關從整個醫療待遇或者是醫療環境的方面去改善"},{"start":1067.758,"end":1089.265,"text":"這個部分大家都會一起努力啦但是你們能做的也不要這麼吝嗇不要做什麼都不做嘛其實你們做得到的啊只是腦筋轉一下而已嘛對啊那如果就是一直要這樣子我想這件事情你說講了一百年也不會過呀我覺得我們今天政府要解決一件事情應該想盡辦法"},{"start":1098.479,"end":1106.852,"text":"每個人能夠做到的 每個部會能夠做到的 大家都盡一點心力好 那就麻煩你們先試算 謝謝好 謝謝陳議員的發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}