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報告召委 請你放心我發言絕對不會超過15分鐘好 感謝好 請一下陳世凱部長好還有台鐵公司鄭光元董事長請鄭光元董事長鐵道局楊振軍局長請楊局長部長我先請教你有關於四月初"},{"start":24.741,"end":35.039,"text":"高鐵啊發生了無線電發出告警訊息然後造成了三班的列車停駛那這個問題的狀況啊就是說"},{"start":40.421,"end":63.413,"text":"高鐵發送這樣一個告警訊息然後這個告警訊息不是透過高鐵應該有的程序以及無線電所發出的那你有瞭解這個狀況嗎像委員報告在當時發生的時候本來以為是無線電被竊取後來發現不是被竊取於是就覺得應該是我們的這個裡面啊他的這個訊號啊"},{"start":65.194,"end":88.28,"text":"被有心人士也道路來使用那這個部分其實高鐵公司馬上就報警現在檢警都已經在調查桃園地檢署也正在調查這件事情這個不管是內部的問題或者是外部的控制或者是竊取相關的這些密碼等等但是我要提醒就是說在目前看起來這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":90.12,"end":116.232,"text":"他的無線電是在嘉義他發的告警訊息是在台中但是啊他的信號的發射源又是在高雄所以說初步的認定是有外部的這樣的一個狀況那其實內部其實也有問題啊我要提醒部長外部有外部的這樣的一個懷疑的狀況的基礎但是內部"},{"start":119.946,"end":141.654,"text":"我要請教一下部長我們的無線電高鐵的無線電關係到相關的這些狀況的掌握都是內部人員所持有這個無線電你知不知道從2007年到現在有更換過嗎它的系統有更換過嗎應該是沒有更換過你看2007年19年了"},{"start":146.454,"end":158.203,"text":"2007年還是iPhone第一代剛推出來的時候現在已經iPhone 17了18馬上就要出來了我們的無線電系統還是當年的這樣的一個系統第二個這個無線電要使用它是有七道的這樣的一個驗證的程序"},{"start":169.481,"end":187.823,"text":"這個七道驗證的程序外部他很難就去了解這樣一個狀況但是這個七道程序你知道嗎七道程序有變換過密碼或是相關的程序你清楚嗎是不是我請鐵道局長補充一下"},{"start":188.948,"end":208.867,"text":"根文報告,這個系統雖然是2007年建制的,因為它是屬於鐵路專用的一個Tetra的通訊系統但是相關的設備跟密碼驗證的機制,高鐵公司都有定期在做處理那這次的案子處理什麼?就是有在做檢視跟做必要的更新有更新嗎?你去查一下"},{"start":209.528,"end":226.524,"text":"那我們回頭會再做進一步的這樣一個了解就系統上沒有更新但是相關的設備跟這個管理的機制那我們會來檢視高鐵公司定期管理的機制請部長跟鐵道局去了解高鐵公司系統更新是必要的我剛才提醒過了"},{"start":227.324,"end":252.652,"text":"2007年是第一代的iPhone出來現在都已經iPhone 17、18馬上就要出來了還有七道的驗證程序到底有沒有落實相關的這樣的一個更新的程序我知道有些交通單位每三個月就去更改相關的密碼呢是我們會向高鐵公司來瞭解那並且要求如果該更新就必然要更新那這樣的一個狀況就是說"},{"start":256.058,"end":266.633,"text":"破解公家機關的無線電啊多數都是發生竊聽或是干擾很少發生這種控制的狀況這次高鐵就非常嚴重"},{"start":267.813,"end":289.544,"text":"那他不但破解甚至能夠控制那這是非常嚴重的事情這個部長必須要延加的一個督促我們會嚴正來面對這個問題而且不只是高鐵軌道系統的無線電的安全不管是高鐵台鐵或者是捷運他的軌道系統都有無線電的這樣的一個使用的狀況"},{"start":290.464,"end":308.524,"text":"那交通部鐵道局都必須要進入調查就是說確保各軌道系統無線電的安全的狀況必須要能掌握那必要的話要有更進一步的防堵的手段你們有沒有進行這樣的一個檢討跟委員報告這個我們會立刻來進行"},{"start":311.191,"end":316.654,"text":"另外工程會 我也必須要提醒工程會 陳助委工程會未來必須要針對無線電的這些採購要必須研擬更嚴謹的一個規範"},{"start":323.752,"end":348.118,"text":"因為軍警消防海巡交通事業各類的公眾事務交通單位他們使用無線電關係到國家的安全也關係到交通的安全那工程會必須要有更積極的作為我們相關的無線電在採購的相關的規範在最前端就要確保他的一個基本的安全請主委簡單說明"},{"start":349.479,"end":376.016,"text":"這個採購法裡面也有相關規定那採購機關可以基於國安或治安的問題在契約裡面做必要的限制包括這個採購的單位等等好 這個都必須要加強啦我請部長有關於高鐵無線電不管是它的硬體或是軟體或是相關的七道驗證程序有沒有定期的這樣的一個做處理跟更新啊"},{"start":376.676,"end":385.803,"text":"必須要加強的督促好 我們馬上去了解另外台鐵的問題台鐵的安全是很重要台鐵到今年的3月初"},{"start":387.034,"end":400.805,"text":"每天的搭乘人次每天的搭乘人次它的日平均也已經到67萬人次了那台鐵的吊車事故2026年5件然後2025年10件2024年8件行車事故的統計今年1到3月件數有160件死亡3人受傷的"},{"start":411.354,"end":434.995,"text":"有三人那運安會我要提醒部長跟鄭董事長運安會有提醒2025年的重大鐵道事故的改善建議總共有18項全部都是台鐵那超過三年未解除列管的改善建議項目高達7項遠遠超過其他的單位那代表"},{"start":435.675,"end":447.103,"text":"有七項的安全的問題過去三年還是沒有完全的改善那其中就包括普悠瑪及太魯閣兩次重大事故之中所提出的建議部長"},{"start":448.504,"end":470.724,"text":"三年了然後難道這個台鐵的改革啊只能三年過後又三年永遠改善不了嗎來部長先簡單說明一下報告委員當然不可以這個樣子啦所以我們所有該改善的部分台鐵公司都應該要積極來辦理那我想鄭董事長到了台鐵之後也針對這些案子全部都在審視過了一次是不是請董事長也回答一下"},{"start":472.827,"end":488.459,"text":"各位委員報告你剛才提到我們總共列管超過三年的有七件那這七件基本上我們在最近裡面都已經陸續的會完成其中兩件已經由應安會解除了"},{"start":491.101,"end":510.251,"text":"另外五件裡面除了有一件是在現在就是清水隧道這個重大是我們會在今年的5月15號完成解除部長必須督促台鐵公司針對相關運安會的安全改善建立必須加緊落實的去督促"},{"start":510.751,"end":536.846,"text":"另外目前為列除列管的這些改善建議之中19項是台鐵的管理組織文化的問題佔了一半那組織文化的問題沒有去改善那問題就永遠無法根除那有關於台鐵的管理跟組織文化這個董事長要用點心是的另外我要提出"},{"start":537.927,"end":559.392,"text":"更重要的就是我們的軌道交通的記錄器那問題就是說普遍記錄不足這些行車的記錄記錄不足而且資料的標準不一甚至有很大的缺失那記錄裝置它一個很重要的功能就是提供平日列車它營運狀態的檢視以及辨識潛在的危險"},{"start":564.033,"end":588.693,"text":"或者是事故的發生之後相關的記錄資料他能夠協助事故的調查分析的噪音以及還原事故的經過那當然這些行車記錄器他不會直接的影響到或者是改善相關的列車的安全但是妥善的保存而且"},{"start":590.086,"end":607.625,"text":"運用這樣妥善的一個管理那我們對於疫場的監測還有維修的檢討或者是教育訓練或事故的預防都能夠改善軌道的這些安全的狀況但是我們軌道交通上的這些紀錄器"},{"start":609.116,"end":631.993,"text":"其實都是普遍紀錄不足啦而且資料標準不一啦那尤其是比較早採購的這一些啊列車都出現紀錄不完全的這些狀況那部長 董事長以阻風鋼壓力 低壓警告為例啊是甚至只有最新的三款列車啊才有確實的紀錄啦喔 那"},{"start":633.749,"end":643.634,"text":"我們鐵道局針對各軌道系統記錄不足的這種狀況應該要參考國際的標準都要將列車必要的記錄參數還有抗撞毀的殘存能力的相關標準國際標準都要列入相關的規範之中"},{"start":655.56,"end":681.659,"text":"那因為時間的關係我最後幾個建議鐵道局應該參考國際的這些標準來訂定相關的一個規範而且要盤點在目前的安全標準之中跟國際規範有落差的這些要主動的來進行相關的修正那台鐵應該要參考國際標準就是說盤點目前紀錄器不足的"},{"start":682.74,"end":689.571,"text":"這個部分提出必要的項目來增設或是推動車輛的更新以及相關設備的改善那"},{"start":691.038,"end":713.328,"text":"如果需要機會也應該確實的向部長來提出相關的說明來讓鄭董事長最後補充說明我想我們現在介入區裡面ATP的部分都沒有問題那其他的像TCMS這部分的話我們現在用人工的方式先做但是我們也在開始用無線傳輸的方式在進行"},{"start":715.789,"end":733.264,"text":"現在已經用EMU900這邊在做那我們預估這個整個計畫在測試的部分在115年年底可以有完成但是整個車隊的建置用無線傳輸的話我們在117年可以完成的一個建置但是這之前我們就用人工來保存"},{"start":734.755,"end":761.725,"text":"好 最後我再提醒一下陳士凱部長對於高鐵公司它相關的無線電是否還是2007年之後所採購的第一代的系統沿用至今第二 相關的高鐵公司應該有的七道的驗證程序有沒有定期的更新或者是不符合目前資安的相關規範"},{"start":763.607,"end":787.406,"text":"這個要確實的去掌握 不然民眾對於高鐵安全會有重大的疑慮那一般的人如果是外部人士他可以竊取或是更進一步的控制相關高鐵列車的行車狀況這對安全是很大的一個危機我再一次很嚴肅的提醒陳部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝李崑澤委員質詢"},{"start":793.376,"end":794.324,"text":"接下來邀請林俊憲"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T09:58:29.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:58:33.686000+08:00","text":"報告召委，請你放心，我發言絕對不會超過15分鐘。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-30T09:58:33.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:58:35.127000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T09:58:35.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:58:43.495000+08:00","text":"請一下陳世凱部長，還有臺鐵公司鄭光遠董事長、鐵道局楊正君局長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-30T09:58:43.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:58:43.875000+08:00","text":"請陳部長，請鄭光遠董事長，請楊局長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T09:58:43.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:59:21.048000+08:00","text":"部長，我先請教你，4月初高鐵發生了無線電發出告警訊息，造成3班列車停駛，這個問題的狀況就是高鐵發送告警訊息，但是這個告警訊息不是透過高鐵應該有的程序及無線電所發出的，你有了解這個狀況嗎？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T09:59:21.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:59:36.135000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，當時發生的時候，本來以為是無線電被竊取，後來發現不是被竊取，於是就覺得應該是裡面的訊號被有心人士盜錄使用。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T09:59:37.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T09:59:43.056000+08:00","text":"就這個部分其實高鐵公司馬上就報警，現在檢警都已經在調查，桃園地檢署也正在調查這件事情。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T09:59:44.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:00:17.849000+08:00","text":"好，不管是內部的問題、外部的控制或者是竊取相關的密碼等等，我要提醒，目前看起來的狀況是，它的無線電是在嘉義，發的告警訊息是在臺中，但是信號的發射源又是在高雄，所以初步認定有外部的狀況，其實內部也有問題。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:00:18.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:00:46.413000+08:00","text":"我要提醒部長，外部有外部的懷疑狀況基礎，我要請教一下部長，高鐵的無線電關係到相關狀況的掌握，都是內部人員所持有，你知不知道這個無線電從2007年到現在有更換過嗎？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:00:46.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:00:48.393000+08:00","text":"它的系統有更換過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:00:48.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:00:48.873000+08:00","text":"應該是沒有更換過，都是一樣的系統。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:00:48.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:00:57.897000+08:00","text":"你看從2007年到現在19年了，2007年還是iPhone第一代剛推出來的時候……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:00:57.897000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:00:58.897000+08:00","text":"是不是請鐵道局局長補充一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:00:58.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:04.322000+08:00","text":"現在已經iPhone 17了，18馬上就要出來了，我們的無線電系統還是當年的系統。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:04.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:32.118000+08:00","text":"第二個，這個無線電要使用7道驗證的程序，外部很難了解這樣的狀況，但是你知道這7道程序有變換過密碼或是相關的程序嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:32.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:34.341000+08:00","text":"你清楚嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:34.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:35.803000+08:00","text":"是不是我請鐵道局局長補充一下？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:37.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:49.740000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個系統雖然是2007年建置的，它是屬於鐵路專用的TETRA通訊系統，但是相關的設備跟密碼驗證的機制，高鐵公司都有定期在做處理。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:50.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:50.982000+08:00","text":"這次的案子……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:51.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:52.103000+08:00","text":"處理什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:52.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:54.145000+08:00","text":"就是有在做檢視跟必要的更新。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:55.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:56.247000+08:00","text":"有更新嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:56.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:01:56.847000+08:00","text":"你去查一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-04-30T10:01:57.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:02:08.458000+08:00","text":"是，我們回頭會再做進一步的了解，就是系統上沒有更新，但是對於相關的設備跟管理機制，我們會檢視高鐵公司定期管理的機制。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:02:08.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:02:10.540000+08:00","text":"請部長跟鐵道局去了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:02:10.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:02:20.686000+08:00","text":"高鐵公司系統更新是必要的，我剛才提醒過了，2007年是第一代的iPhone出來，現在都已經是iPhone 17，18馬上就要出來了。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:02:21.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:02:27.128000+08:00","text":"還有，7道的驗證程序到底有沒有落實相關的更新程序？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:02:27.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:02:32.069000+08:00","text":"我知道有些交通單位每3個月就去更改相關的密碼。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:02:33.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:02:37.791000+08:00","text":"我們會向高鐵公司來了解，並且要求如果該更新就必然要更新。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:02:40.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:03:01.156000+08:00","text":"以這樣的狀況來講，破解公家機關的無線電多數都是發生竊聽或是干擾，很少發生這種控制的狀況，這次高鐵就非常嚴重，他不但破解，甚至能夠控制，這是非常嚴重的事情。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:03:01.156000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:03:02.216000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:03:02.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:03:04.257000+08:00","text":"部長必須要嚴加督促。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:03:04.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:03:05.898000+08:00","text":"沒錯，我們會嚴正來面對這個問題。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:03:05.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:03:34.802000+08:00","text":"而且不只是高鐵，針對軌道系統的無線電安全，不管是高鐵、臺鐵或者是捷運，其軌道系統都有無線電的使用狀況，交通部鐵道局必須要介入調查，確保各軌道系統無線電安全的狀況，必須要能掌握，必要的話，要有更進一步的防堵手段，你們有沒有進行這樣的檢討？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-04-30T10:03:34.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:03:36.504000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們會立刻來進行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:03:39.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:04:16.098000+08:00","text":"另外，我也必須要提醒工程會，陳主委，工程會未來必須針對無線電的採購要研議更嚴謹的規範，因為軍、警、消防、海巡、交通事業等等各類的公共事務、交通單位使用無線電，關係到國家的安全，也關係到交通的安全，工程會必須要有更積極的作為，無線電在採購的相關規範、在最前端就要確保基本的安全，請主委簡單說明一下。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-30T10:04:17.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:04:28.846000+08:00","text":"採購法裡面也有相關規定，採購機關可以基於國安或資安的問題在契約裡面做必要的限制，包括採購的單位等等。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:04:29.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:04:31.408000+08:00","text":"好，這個都必須要加強。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:04:33.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:04:46.077000+08:00","text":"部長，有關於高鐵的無線電，不管是硬體、軟體或是相關的7道驗證程序有沒有定期的處理跟更新，必須要加強督促。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:04:46.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:04:47.218000+08:00","text":"好，我們馬上去了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:04:47.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:05:19.774000+08:00","text":"另外，關於臺鐵的問題，臺鐵的安全是很重要的，臺鐵到今年的3月初，每天搭乘人次日平均也已經到67萬人次；臺鐵調車事故2026年5件，2025年10件，2024年8件；行車事故的統計，今年1到3月件數有160件，死亡3人，受傷的有3人。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:05:21.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:05:55.083000+08:00","text":"我要提醒部長跟鄭董事長，運安會有提醒，2025年重大鐵道事故的改善建議總共有18項，全部都是臺鐵，超過三年未解除列管的改善建議項目高達7項，遠遠超過其他單位，代表有7項安全問題，過去三年還是沒有完全改善，其中就包括普悠瑪號及太魯閣號兩次重大事故之中所提出的建議。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:05:55.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:06:03.951000+08:00","text":"部長，三年了，難道臺鐵的改革，只能三年過後又三年，永遠改善不了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:06:03.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:06:04.952000+08:00","text":"部長先簡單說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:06:05.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:06:18.704000+08:00","text":"報告委員，當然不可以這個樣子，所以我們所有該改善的部分，臺鐵公司都應該要積極來辦理，我想鄭董事長到了臺鐵之後，也針對這些案子全部都審視過一次，是不是請董事長也回答一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭董事長光遠","start":"2026-04-30T10:06:21.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:06:50.607000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，你剛才提到了我們列管超過三年的總共有7件，基本上這7件我們在最近都會陸續完成，其中兩件已經由運安會解除了，另外5件裡面，除了有1件是關於清水隧道的重大事故，我們會在今年的5月15日完成並解除，另外4件……","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:06:51.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:06:58.231000+08:00","text":"部長對於臺鐵公司針對相關運安會的安全改善建議，必須加緊落實督促。好。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:06:58.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:07:23.366000+08:00","text":"另外，目前未解除列管的這些改善建議之中，19項是臺鐵的管理組織文化的問題，占了一半，組織文化的問題沒有改善，那問題就永遠無法根除，有關臺鐵的管理跟組織文化，董事長要用點心。是的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:07:23.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:07:41.991000+08:00","text":"另外，我要提出更重要的是關於軌道交通紀錄器，問題就是行車紀錄普遍記錄不足，而且資料的標準不一，甚至有很大的缺失。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:07:43.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:08:03.482000+08:00","text":"紀錄裝置有一個很重要的功能，就是提供平日列車營運狀態的檢視，以及辨識潛在的危險，或者是事故發生之後相關的紀錄資料，它能夠協助事故調查、分析肇因，以及還原事故經過。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:08:04.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:08:31.941000+08:00","text":"當然，這些行車紀錄器，它不會直接影響或者是改善相關的列車安全，但是妥善保存並有效運用，對於異常監測、維修檢討、教育訓練或事故的預防，都能夠改善軌道的安全狀況。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:08:34.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:08:58.472000+08:00","text":"軌道交通上的這些紀錄器，其實都是普遍記錄不足，而且資料標準不一，尤其是比較早採購的列車都出現紀錄不完全的狀況，部長、董事長，以主風缸壓力低壓警告為例，甚至只有最新的三款列車才有確實的紀錄。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:09:02.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:09:11.614000+08:00","text":"鐵道局針對各軌道系統紀錄不足的狀況，應該要參考國際標準，將列車必要的紀錄參數，還有抗撞毀殘存能力的國際標準，都要列入相關的規範之中。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:09:27.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:10:03.100000+08:00","text":"鐵道局應該參考國際標準訂定相關的規範，而且要盤點目前的安全標準之中，與國際規範有落差的部分要主動進行相關的修正；臺鐵應該要參考國際標準，盤點目前紀錄器不足的部分，提出必要的項目來增設，或是推動車輛的更新，以及相關設備的改善，如果需要經費，也應該確實向部長提出相關的說明。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:10:03.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:10:05.321000+08:00","text":"讓鄭董事長最後補充說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭董事長光遠","start":"2026-04-30T10:10:06.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:10:41.244000+08:00","text":"是，現在紀錄器裡面的ATP的部分都沒有問題，但其他的像TCMS的話，現在用人工的方式先做，但是我們也開始用無線傳輸的方式來進行，現在已經用EMU900在做，預估整個計畫的測試部分，在115年年底可以完成，但是整個車隊的無線傳輸建置，在117年可以完成，在這之前，我們就用人工的方法來保存。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:10:43.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:10:57.481000+08:00","text":"最後，我再提醒一下陳世凱部長，對於高鐵公司相關的無線電，是否還是2007年之後所採購的第一代系統沿用至今？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:10:58.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:13.288000+08:00","text":"第二、高鐵公司相關應該有的七道驗證程序，有沒有定期更新，或是不符合目前資安的規範，這個要確實地掌握。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:11:13.288000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:14.288000+08:00","text":"這個部分，會後我們馬上來了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:11:13.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:32.143000+08:00","text":"不然民眾對高鐵安全會有重大的疑慮，一般的人，如果是外部人士，他可以竊取或是更進一步的控制高鐵列車的行車狀況，這對安全是一個很大的危機。是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-30T10:11:32.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:34.585000+08:00","text":"我再一次很嚴肅地提醒陳部長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-30T10:11:34.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:35.005000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員素月代）","start":"2026-04-30T10:11:35.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:35.406000+08:00","text":"謝謝李昆澤委員質詢。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員素月代）","start":"2026-04-30T10:11:41.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-30T10:11:42.324000+08:00","text":"接下來邀請林俊憲召委質詢。","quality":0.667}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}