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10:41:03","會議時間":"2026-04-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分。\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「法務部矯正機關作業基金」收支部分。\n三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「毒品防制基金」收支部分。\n四、審查法務部函送財團法人臺灣更生保護會、財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會115年度預算書案。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於5月14日下午2時截止收件】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.04971875,"end":17.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.78784375,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.024093750000002,"end":17.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.04096875,"end":17.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.17971875,"end":21.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.37784375,"end":22.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.94721875,"end":31.300343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.637843750000002,"end":32.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.24534375,"end":82.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.30909375,"end":97.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.54721875,"end":135.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.91534375,"end":119.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.07721875000001,"end":144.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.24971875,"end":139.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.21096875,"end":176.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.01909375,"end":157.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.07096875000002,"end":191.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.55034375000002,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.02221875,"end":192.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.38909375,"end":198.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.65409375000002,"end":201.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.00409375,"end":199.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.81409375,"end":204.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.05846875,"end":202.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.26471875000001,"end":225.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.74096875,"end":209.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.47846875000002,"end":215.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.07159375,"end":238.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.16284375,"end":254.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.93034375000002,"end":239.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.98284375000003,"end":263.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.10909375,"end":256.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.39909375,"end":265.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.95159375000003,"end":268.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.89221875000004,"end":270.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.71034375,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.97096875,"end":341.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.25784375,"end":276.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.17159375,"end":359.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.49784375,"end":377.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.50346875,"end":408.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.62534375,"end":420.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.04534375000003,"end":472.95284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.62784375,"end":491.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.67971875,"end":514.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.3259687500001,"end":535.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.06534375,"end":538.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.8159687500001,"end":542.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.8659687500001,"end":565.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.59659375,"end":573.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.78096875,"end":595.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.95471875,"end":611.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.70909375,"end":603.0928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.62784375,"end":609.1340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.19721875,"end":614.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.0615937499999,"end":614.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.1372187500001,"end":616.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.33971875,"end":616.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.35659375,"end":616.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.37346875,"end":616.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.0990937500001,"end":617.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.1159687500001,"end":621.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.03096875,"end":629.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.8915937500001,"end":623.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.9072187500001,"end":630.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.00846875,"end":632.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.1940937500001,"end":630.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6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委員好部長早安我今天是要針對刑法的妨礙性自主罪章能不能夠改採積極同意那跟您討論是部長應該知道現在的教養趨勢"},{"start":36.901,"end":56.018,"text":"越來越重視不管是兒童或者是甚至包含就是青少年大人他們的自主意願比如說以我們這邊看右邊這個是2020年衛福部的社家屬的性別平等教育的教材就直接告訴大家身體是我自己的"},{"start":56.638,"end":82.271,"text":"那上面的標題是我說可以才可以那我們也看到現在的教育會教導小朋友說可不可以跟你一起玩那你要等到對方說可以才能一起玩可不可以坐在你旁邊也是可不可以借你的玩具也要得到對方的同意那我們可以一起吃飯嗎當然也要得到他們的同意那日常大小事都需要徵詢對方的同意"},{"start":83.571,"end":96.941,"text":"當然信也應該要徵求對方的同意啊那部長想請問您就是在信這個事情上您認為要不要徵得對方的同意就跟吃飯借玩具一起玩一樣謝謝委員關心這個一個問題"},{"start":103.82,"end":125.812,"text":"那事實上這個有關於妨礙性自主罪那個積極同意權這部分那跟我們現在當然我們現在的過程要件的呈現的方式是不一樣的以前是自主不能抗拒嘛那個強制自主不能抗拒那後來在民國八十八年有修正文字就違反了醫院就來保護這個性自主權"},{"start":126.192,"end":144.098,"text":"那我想醫院的話很多地方是不是說我很明確的跟你講說我不願意他只要有身體的動作或一些的判斷他是不願意的他是沒有同意的那我想這部分在一個過程要見應該是有他的一個該當性了"},{"start":144.258,"end":161.348,"text":"那所以部長從你剛剛講就是受害者必須要表達出譬如說身體的動作證明他是不願意的那這個不就是跟我們的教育趨勢是不同嗎教育趨勢是說你要得到人家的同意才可以借人家的玩具"},{"start":162.068,"end":190.647,"text":"你現在沒有得到人家的同意甚至那個玩具的擁有者喝醉了然後你就因為他沒有辦法證明他不同意在你們的法院裡頭這個人就可以把他的玩具拿去玩您覺得這樣合理嗎像委員提的就是玩具如果說他當然沒有爭取到同意那直接就拿去拿去當然是不是就是一個的確是在一個禮貌上的確是只是禮貌嗎這個法律上沒有問題嗎玩具的一個問題那小朋友去拿"},{"start":191.087,"end":217.292,"text":"玩具就是別人的擁有物對但是這樣的話因為有不符合所有的意圖這樣要成立的一個其他的所以玩具一定要得到人家的同意身體不需要嗎委員有提到就是說我們是不是把一個他的不願意改成要積極的一個同意的一個同意錢那事實上這個的確是一個很大的一個不同的思維很大的不同意很大的改變"},{"start":218.012,"end":232.94,"text":"那個是一個改變那這部分是不是這部分的過程要件是把它說違反醫院改成說我要同意同意那怎麼去一個呈現那其實以目前來講的話那維也醫院是有用客觀的情況去綜合判斷的我剛才我講的那當然就是綜合判斷的一些的情況"},{"start":239.524,"end":262.366,"text":"證據對不對是不是就把責任變成是受害者必須要證明自己有抗拒有怎麼樣他如果喝醉了被性侵他沒有辦法提出證據他沒有辦法證明他有抗拒他身體並沒有動我想這份委員關心這個問題這個的確是要為基礎我想我們就會提出帶來行修小組來做一個討論"},{"start":263.507,"end":292.57,"text":"所以您也認同就是說我們可以去討論可以討論不一定認同但是可以討論這個當然是可以做一個行修就一個討論因為這個是還是要廣大各界的意見好那我今天就是跟您講各界的意見像您講的您非常的了解目前的妨害性自主的定義以刑法221條是必須要就是其他重點在違反其意願之方法而為性交者"},{"start":293.35,"end":315.325,"text":"所以他把這個構成要件的責任放在被害人身上被害人必須要有證明他有抗拒就像您剛講的身體要有反抗等等陳昭如台大法律系的教授就講到這個還是一個不能抗拒的幽靈如果你有機會抵抗不抵抗你就沒有辦法讓這個性侵罪成立"},{"start":317.146,"end":341.184,"text":"我想您剛說要聽各界的意見從2012年起婦女新知基金會就已經開始倡議這個定義應該要改成積極同意現代婦女基金會2017年也倡議Only yes means yes沒有同意就是性侵而不是說沒有抗拒就不是性侵這完全不一樣"},{"start":342.605,"end":351.354,"text":"因為是舉證責任在誰完全不一樣那立新基金會這些都是不一樣的基金會不一樣的婦女團體2018年還舉辦國際研討會那在場的婦女團體都大力倡議瑞典也有積極同意權討論台灣是不是可行"},{"start":360.56,"end":377.807,"text":"您說各界這邊我們看一下國際的例子剛剛是國內的倡議瑞典2018年就修法了性行為必須出於自願不能再以暴力或脅迫為構成要件採積極同意模式Only yes means yes"},{"start":378.587,"end":407.927,"text":"法國也在去年通過修法因為他在一個法國馬松性侵案件明定未經同意的性行為就構成性侵正式把同意納入刑法定義條文指出同意必須是自由給予知情具體事前而且可撤回的並強調不能以一方的承諾或未反應像我們剛講的喝醉酒他就沒有辦法反應你不能以這樣就推定為同意"},{"start":409.407,"end":437.48,"text":"國際不是這樣連日本日本還沒有到這麼的積極同意可是呢他兩年前都修法明定不同意要件他是更嚴謹的譬如說服用酒精或藥物就沒有辦法表達不同意沒有給予對方表示不同意的想法的時間這個就是所謂的不同意還有要件也越來越趨向所謂的積極同意了"},{"start":439.441,"end":452.427,"text":"歐洲45國簽署的伊斯坦堡公約也告訴大家積極同意必須基於自由意志所以我是覺得這應該是時間了1999年的確修法有了一點進步"},{"start":455.669,"end":472.525,"text":"可是違反意願這四個字還是在討論被害人有沒有拒絕當時為什麼不立刻報警當時為什麼身體沒有表現出不願意等等造成被害人的二度傷害可能很多人嚇到了沒有辦法反應"},{"start":473.663,"end":491.059,"text":"那積極同意是在討論一方有無取得另一方的同意你有事先詢問他嗎你在怎麼樣情況下他在怎麼樣情況下跟你說同意你怎麼確定對方真的想要跟你發生性行為他是在強化性自主的同意權"},{"start":492.725,"end":514.266,"text":"那也要跟部長講其實我們的最高法院已經白紙黑字在慢慢改變了這個定義的內容你看這個2021年的任何人要與他人發生性關係之前必須要得他人民事同意才可以否則就是違反意願的性侵害犯罪行為"},{"start":515.407,"end":541.479,"text":"所以他在判決上已經直接把民事同意就是願意這個事情等同於他的判決的內容所以到目前為止有165件判決援引這個觀點那可是呢這個最高法院的2021年的判決還不夠普遍以我們看到的報紙新聞您看一下這個是今年3月的新聞"},{"start":542.952,"end":564.96,"text":"一個喝醉酒的就是女性被性侵後來檢察官以他沒有求救沒有外傷不起訴加害人或是行為人那家屬出來抗議律師就要求是不是能夠檢察官是不是看看有其他的條文的趁機性交等等喔所以這個法條讓受害者"},{"start":566.16,"end":595.44,"text":"像這種喝醉酒然後他認為他被性侵的完全可能落入沒有求救沒有外傷所以我想從婦女團體2012年提出到現在已經14年了法務部可不可以動起來可以研議嗎有這麼多的國際例子這麼多的國內的婦女團體呼籲了14年那是不是可以來研議積極研議積極同意的定義的可行性好不好"},{"start":596.18,"end":603.584,"text":"這部分我們會請法務部的刑法修正小組來討論這個議題因為我們裡面有實務界跟學術界來做一個討論這個實務界跟學術界的性別比例是多少可以告訴我們嗎"},{"start":617.172,"end":642.218,"text":"跟委員報告目前那個行收委員的男女比例大概接近1比1那很好那希望也能夠有相關的性別議題的專業一起參與討論好嗎也有性別議題的委員在裡面那多久可以給我一個相關的報告呢這個還要再招會那個是不是我們請那個政治因為他是主席"},{"start":643.899,"end":672.939,"text":"我是行修召集委員會主席因為這個涉及到我們要蒐集相關的立法例我已經幫你蒐集了很多了當然就是說原則上我們委員會是每個月召集一次它有一定的排程所以它不是說今天就可以排入更何況它有立法例的研究或相關的實務見解的蒐集你知道性侵案現在就是說已經累積一年會多少然後已經在台灣譬如十年內有幾件嗎"},{"start":673.639,"end":696.433,"text":"我手上目前沒有同意是非常非常多的我看到的數字是十幾萬所以它是一個非常破戒的一個人權的議題各位報告我們目前的過程要見是違反意願嘛跟積極的統一當然我們現在實務上透過一個透過一個一個司法實務上的見解去形成是剛剛委員也提出來也就像白帶也達到同樣的目的"},{"start":697.334,"end":716.753,"text":"可是我剛剛給你今年三月的一個新聞一個九歲的女性受害者然後檢察官認為說因為他沒有反抗然後家屬抗議律師起來行用別的法條等等還在找一個法律幫助他所以你這個定義就限制了這群人他沒有辦法伸張正義嗎"},{"start":717.534,"end":744.759,"text":"我意思是說目前的構建要件底下事實上透過實務上見解的形成也可以達到剛剛那你們修法的時候為什麼要透過實務的見解那就是有這種檢察官跟法官怎麼辦當時修法是民國88年到現在畢竟30年前的修法現在時空已經不一樣現在的倡議是積極的同意的倡議好那我們倡議了14年了可以積極討論我們刑事協調組就是要解決這種困境把目前這30年來的見解做一個研討那我剛剛只是在問說多久我可以得到報告"},{"start":746.207,"end":759.538,"text":"我們要排入我們的一層那你怎麼不能還要半年吧兩個月可以有個初步的報告嗎我們也許我們再下週下下一次就來討論好 那兩個月內我可以有個初步的報告好不好看你們的初步的進展好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}