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這個三接那個是核實在算那有一些報導但是後來都有查證過沒有沒關係 院長我不是工程專業所以我想相信專業啦那這個案子一直從106年到現在在行政院秘書長那邊 國發會那邊轉來轉去 轉來轉去一直講說"},{"start":261.701,"end":285.633,"text":"以前蘇貞昌院長講說蔡總統的時候經費不是問題啊馬祖大家做的比金門大家更好因為我聽了很高興好幾次跟蔡前總統在聚會我碰他他說不是蓋好了嗎其實還沒有所以這個案子一直拖拖了八年你看他整個騎乘"},{"start":287.421,"end":316.528,"text":"已經從115年原來系社應該完成到現在整個延宕了那也有學者專家講說跟北竿機場的修建有必要性的關係沒有關係啊你北竿機場把它擴建了擴建的目的是什麼希望擴建馬祖一座機場就好了幹什麼要兩座機場呢那南竿機場已經沒辦法再延長了也沒辦法再拓寬了"},{"start":318.636,"end":346.898,"text":"這沒辦法啊所以你北竿機場完了以後你南竿機場是不是要關閉南竿機場關閉那你沒有這個橋樑去走的話那南竿的老百姓要跑到北竿坐飛機欸這裡面是十年欸八年到十年欸這個誰受得了啊是不是所以沒有做這個馬祖大橋沒有完成齁你說要把南竿機場關閉那是可行性是很低的"},{"start":347.762,"end":377.129,"text":"很低的所以我要請院長再瞭解那其實這個工程的經費不用那麼高世新考量什麼勒世新跟民航局考量到本來用協章橋那用協章橋太高他是希望把馬祖北竿機場啊能夠安全降落所以那個協章橋會擋到他的航道所以把它修低了修低工程經費就要比較高一點"},{"start":378.587,"end":393.315,"text":"所以我拜託院長我跟你講這個大橋的看法院長你能不能表達一下你的意見其實我很敬佩委員啊為這個大橋多次的"},{"start":394.349,"end":418.458,"text":"提出各種的建議跟要求政府來貫徹這個事情那我也知道南北竿兩個機場目前它存在著相當大的交通運輸的功能那建大橋的目的就是在縮短南北竿之間兩個島嶼之間的交通需求所以如果有這個大橋那就不必要有兩個機場"},{"start":419.878,"end":432.5,"text":"如果有存在兩個機場那個這大橋的這個必要性就考量所以在112年的6月13號行政院是請交通部就北竿機場機場完成改善之後南竿機場"},{"start":433.871,"end":459.513,"text":"他要重新評估他的存廢以及興建馬祖大橋的必要性這是現在手上最近一次的就是112年6月這個評估南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋的興建的必要性是在北竿機場完成他整個改善工程之後那現在就停留在這個地方那問題是現在好像這個"},{"start":461.665,"end":481.445,"text":"縣政府方面就這個橋是不是有進一步的動作進一步的規劃目前都還是停滯的所以我也沒有辦法再做往前推任何部分的所以請委員事必了解請縣政府在這個時候對興建這個橋有沒有一個更進一步的一個規劃的出現前兩個禮拜到馬祖去"},{"start":486.26,"end":514.611,"text":"你應該知道馬祖地區縣長、議長跟學生之間在政治整個的互動我們的意見是一致的但是程序沒有進行啊不能只講意見程序要進行程序需要八年嗎程序需要八年的時間嗎不是 是縣政府目前坐下來可以討論嘛你找縣政府啊 共同黨你找縣政府來討論啊我們在會議上一個鐘頭就解決啦有什麼那麼困難要公文來了公文去"},{"start":515.953,"end":543.041,"text":"一直在那邊扯扯了八年然後我們張景生前政委員還發表文章他起先跟我講什麼他說那邊做吊橋從南竿做吊橋到北竿橋就好了幹什麼做這個馬祖大橋他的言論我覺得很奇怪你知道嗎我聽不下去他說馬祖沒幾個人車輛可能少之又少"},{"start":545.757,"end":573.672,"text":"這個橋做起來這個機場做起來不是馬祖人獨享這個橋做起來是我們國人同胞全世界人民我們共享的是不是不是馬祖人在用而已所以這個觀念跟想法院長是不是因為我們人少不是地理環境的問題我們對離島都有特別的建設條例怎麼會因為人多人少"},{"start":574.978,"end":589.72,"text":"還是黨派不同不是選擇加入民進黨可能你這個馬上就OK現在要各縣地方去黨派不同的縣市比較多但是我們都全力的來協助等一下我加入民進黨這個大小馬上就核定"},{"start":590.613,"end":617.385,"text":"這兩回事雖然歡迎但是不會直接影響但是是歡迎對嘛 我在想總統也好院長也好 以你的高度不過你下面的人你稍微節制一下是不是請交通部來談 現在的進度怎麼樣交通部沒問題啦 因為市長我跟他太久的朋友了請市長說明一下嘛你看我在交通委員會15年了 多了我有刪過交通部一毛錢預算嗎市長你回答我"},{"start":618.257,"end":646.918,"text":"我有刪過你一毛錢預算嗎?有沒有我昨天為什麼要刪你五十億?因為我不能提出增加預算的要求嘛但是我有三點預算的權利啊所以我刪你五十萬啊你覺得服氣還是不服氣?我們尊重大院委員合理的審查預算院長"},{"start":648.103,"end":671.068,"text":"你對陳雪生也好 對馬祖也好 對馬祖大強也好你釋出一點善意好不好明年預算還沒有編吧 今年預算還沒審你能不能釋出一點善意所以就現在的進度請說明一下我們照進度來走都可以他哪有那個權利啊不是 進度你那個老闆部長跟我講他有權利嗎他也沒辦法今天總統院長沒有講話的話 這個預算"},{"start":673.669,"end":688.511,"text":"總統跟我都很尊重專業的評估最後的結果我跟委員稍微說明一下相關的剛才委員特別提到說要跟縣政府來談所以公路局已經有一兩次的時間跟縣政府共同召開會議"},{"start":689.252,"end":714.061,"text":"而且其中一次很像委員還親自參加我們目前已經把這個因為公路局是接受縣政府的委託所以我們把行政院在112年的相關的意見做了一些盤點跟一些說明以後目前把這樣的計畫送給了縣政府這也就是剛才縣長特別提到的縣政府可能要就後續要如何辦理又後續"},{"start":715.862,"end":743.158,"text":"我們已經開過第二次會議了,我自己去的第三次會議能不能把它確定你這個月開我請縣長、議長通通來你要的話我請所有議員通通來我們一起來敲定好不好不是縣政府的問題嘛縣長的腦袋,我們老百姓腦袋、議員腦袋跟我的腦袋長得一模一樣只是你們的腦袋跟我長得不太一樣,院長"},{"start":745.387,"end":773.895,"text":"我不是說你的立場有問題或總統立場有問題你下面的人你看馬祖這個大橋蓋了蓋什麼一天通車幾步你這樣講的話那金門大橋為什麼要蓋澎湖大橋也不要蓋啊你的淡江大橋也不用蓋啊為什麼要蓋水電水跟電可以接著橋端下去還有網路電信這些資源是兩個島共享的光光可以互通是不是"},{"start":774.741,"end":798.622,"text":"地區產業可以帶動阿兵哥要打靶現在你看每個島都要有靶場靶場國防部長提出來要8億10億一個靶場要8億10億嗎幾百個兵在打是不是比台北市警察局規模還小所以地區永續的發展這很重要的所以不要為了離島偏鄉"},{"start":800.467,"end":827.914,"text":"希望院長能夠重視不會 我們非常重視我接續剛剛次長說的話就是縣政府如果對於這個未來的綜合規劃他提出一個具體的內容的一個案子出來那裡面如果縱然提到他興建的這個計畫甚至一些期前的需要的經費他只要提在這個案子裡面計畫當中我們都可以來談行政院秘書長第一次回函 第二次回函 第三次回函"},{"start":828.82,"end":848.478,"text":"都在講什麼你現在我是分擔三分之一啊我行政院負擔三分之二啊三分之一 你叫我現在負擔十分之一啊你所有重大功能全部停擺連談都不用談了金門 馬祖 澎湖 偏鄉你根本就不用談重大建設 是不是這樣"},{"start":850.041,"end":879.016,"text":"這有一點是國家的重大建設嘛你像北韓機場修建你說要縣政府負擔錢 不可能都是中央來處理所以只要縣政府提出一個綜合的規劃裡面縱然談到經費甚至未來談到財務的結構分擔只要有這個案都可以進來談現在就是沒有這個案不能就是開會談而已 必須要一個比方說我們說可行性評估綜合規劃 細部規劃要一步一步的走向世襲報告說工程"},{"start":880.1,"end":906.619,"text":"沒有問題 施工沒有問題經費也沒有問題 那什麼有問題就政治環境出了問題嘛就陳允燊加入國民黨加錯了我跟你們講個報告啊國民黨執政有沒有我們的北開機站也不可能核定啊我老是跟你講啊是民進黨蔡總統都把他批了現在馬祖大俠要國民黨去核定我也聽不下去啦那如果民進黨再不核定"},{"start":908.069,"end":934.764,"text":"我跟你報我只有請求共產黨幫我忙這個得不償失我跟你講得不償失啊你會失去的更多那我是跟你委員報告你現在請縣政府提一個計畫出來這可能是一個綜合評估的計畫那就可以來討論現在沒有這個案院長你進入實質的計畫好不好要三四年欸要三四年欸你看那個國發會很可惡喔上次去英國英國去認證回來有沒有"},{"start":937.253,"end":957.556,"text":"我向他要資料他說不宜公開我奇怪了他不宜公開是國防機密嗎不是嘛為什麼不宜公開我還沒找國防會主委來他這兩天公問還回我院長你覺得這個有什麼不宜公開的"},{"start":959.077,"end":974.655,"text":"我不知道他布以公開的是哪一部分但一個地方建設不是說全部都布以公開我不曉得他指的是哪一部分不過國發會當然有他的這個機關組織的權限跟他的責職者他負責任的做好這個工作那我希望說"},{"start":975.436,"end":1002.135,"text":"是不是地方政府 縣政府還是請交通部跟地方政府談一下地方政府提出一個什麼計畫出來那國發會現在在審的內容如果有修正的意見請地方政府來按照審查意見來做修正那這個案就可以往下推那目前停在這裡啊拜託您喔我想你再幹也是八年嘛 對不對沒有啦沒有啦你再幹也是八年啦沒有 不可能啦你看"},{"start":1003.243,"end":1024.567,"text":"學生當了國大代表當了四年跟賴總統也是老同事跟我們本黨的主席也是老同事縣長當了八年立委當了十五年我到現在連那個大橋連影子都沒有我對馬祖雄鄉親情何以堪明年年底我要卸任了是不是"},{"start":1025.649,"end":1045.779,"text":"你叫要跪著跟老百姓賠不是嗎我真的誠懇的跟委員說我們可以來討論出一個方式請地方政務來提出一個計畫出來那提計畫如何提這個內容地方政務要主導但是我們可以告訴地方政務只要有這個計畫出來我們就按照這個計畫的程序來進行院長以雪生這樣的一個精緻力對馬祖未來的願景"},{"start":1049.401,"end":1065.038,"text":"應該是非常非常了解的我不敢講唯一的一個起碼是其中之一嘛你起碼對我個人的經濟的過程跟我提出的意見你們要給予重視啊你們要去討論嘛你看明天編預算啊"},{"start":1066.793,"end":1080.121,"text":"沒有計畫,現在這個還沒有一個...哎呀,我對你們那麼好,我覺得要有點壓力給你們啦我是誠意跟委員說,我們請交通部、地方政府來談一個計畫出來請地方政府要主導這個計畫,應該是一個綜合規劃吧"},{"start":1083.563,"end":1112.398,"text":"我想委員可以的話我們來協助縣政府來提送一份那個應該是說行政院的公文回應的公文一個月以內把它完成可以嗎我們來協助什麼協助一個月以內完成有你著急沒問題我們縣長議長立委全員到齊議員統統來我們來協助縣政府出具一個公文香港人也統統來四個香港人一起來好不好因為時間的關係我現在跟你討論光光"},{"start":1113.837,"end":1141.698,"text":"我要發展馬祖觀光院長你是到馬祖去對馬祖想法怎麼樣我覺得那我那天那句話我再重複他是一個非常難得的戰地文化很適合發展各種的觀光那我們一定全力的來發展觀光而且不會讓他成為一個戰場你看你到馬祖風景觀影處斜對面看過去一個碉堡那是楊耀委員在那邊當兵的地方啊當兵當到沒有中風但是他痛風啊"},{"start":1142.978,"end":1172.051,"text":"很潮濕的地方現在變成觀光景點了是不是馬祖很漂亮嘛但是我跟你報告喔馬祖國產署跟軍備局佔領的土地多少你知道嗎佔領我們85%的土地百分比因為過去在佔地政務他有其必要我們佔地政務嘛所以很多主義的土地還沒拿回來現在法律上還無法解套你家怎麼發展觀光地產你要種個地瓜只能種地瓜種高粱啊"},{"start":1173.337,"end":1198.819,"text":"這種青菜自己吃還不夠所以要從台灣這邊運過去還有就是我們馬祖曾經是黃魚的故鄉黃魚打到可以踩到黃魚上岸踩到黃魚上岸是因為那個網魚群過來整條船裝到快翻船了所以把網切斷魚就浮在海水上面"},{"start":1199.79,"end":1223.132,"text":"一直到岸上所以我們講說可以踩著黃魚上岸是這麼講的那黃魚多到不行啊現在你看黃魚多貴好黃魚沒有了大陸跟我們一水之隔海水是一樣的嘛那麼他的海水有毒我們的海水沒毒嗎所以他的淡菜啊牡蠣啊有一些水產品"},{"start":1224.52,"end":1252.132,"text":"大陸連江 連江縣是大陸水產養殖的第一大縣 以前是第二水產養殖的非常多的東西你看我們老闆一下拿點東西過來還判刑欸要關兩年多 關三年好幾個抓去關東西不准上來那我們光餓上去吃什麼我不曉得院長那天上去吃了什麼水產沒有沒有 沒有 都吃豬肉豬肉 牛肉"},{"start":1253.8,"end":1282.214,"text":"我看你沒吃到什麼水產嗎沒有對啊以前滿桌都是耶 那個蛋菜一整桌的吃啊有啦 別的這個觀光客從各地去的 各縣市去的我看他們吃的都很豐富啊你看漁業署漁業署 經濟部這個不等進來那個又什麼什麼什麼外貿 國貿什麼幾號我是不懂啦然後又不去福島去放養什麼 放魚 那個魚啊 放養"},{"start":1283.632,"end":1313.244,"text":"放什麼三萬隻大陸來這邊一放就放幾十萬啊是不是他只是做個樣子嘛你要輔導老百姓怎麼樣把海洋資源把它變成海洋牧場嘛歷任的農業部長都晃一晃算了人好不好對我們都很客氣啊你看馬祖老百姓真的你看我們有沒有跟你抗爭學生有沒有罵過你們沒有欸"},{"start":1314.414,"end":1340.065,"text":"我們自己知道我們人太少了土地太小了我也不敢罵我的忍氣吞聲啊滿腹的委屈啊所以那天到了馬祖院長說立委你都沒講話啊讓你講講話我哪裡敢講話我應該跟你講講一個鐘頭兩個鐘頭講不完的啊是不是你沒交代我講我想說也不是我的場合嘛我就不講話"},{"start":1342.025,"end":1365.078,"text":"後來你總算也讓我講了幾分鐘了是不是應該的應該的我是說農業部啊你去輔導一下嘛是不是你輔導一下嘛你馬祖老百姓你要吃什麼你觀光客進來以前那個飛機旅客過去啊房子沒人住現在呢客滿客滿"},{"start":1367.932,"end":1396.625,"text":"老闆爺的田地有沒有變更計畫蓋房子蓋民宿我們民宿也把它合法化合法化那這土地都滿了沒有土地啦土地在誰那裡在國產署那裡在軍方那裡那軍方跟國產署能不能釋出土地給縣政府呢可以但是不能做私人用途那你等於逼著縣政府要去蓋旅館縣政府要蓋旅館這個沒有道理吧看看"},{"start":1397.932,"end":1425.07,"text":"院長有機會跟您底下各部會有沒有討論一下對金門馬祖金門土地很多金門的土地都是僑胞的他們僑胞在外面不回來所以荒廢很多土地我們馬祖僑胞很少我們土地就用光了所以這個我覺得非常重要的另外最近在討論軍購其實院長我那時候跟你討論過你就講實話"},{"start":1427.697,"end":1437.078,"text":"其實發價出來了多少就多少今天不是討論這個我是覺得你跟反對黨他監督你有必要的"},{"start":1438.206,"end":1466.887,"text":"是不是八千就八千嘛 你先讓他過嘛 過了你再申請啊七千八百億的部分總統已經公告了我們也希望適不遲疑啊那這個未來第二階段還是要趕快請大家大院能夠來討論另外就是本土軍工產業這一塊不涵蓋在裡面那你不要跟老百姓講說我們要反對幹什麼這個仇越絕越深了套怎麼解套嘛 你講嘛對不對好 你最近又講了"},{"start":1467.708,"end":1496.563,"text":"海馬仕要部署在哪裡?部署在東營我們東營很可憐耶只有4平方公里的一個彈丸之地裡面放了什麼東西?我跟你講什麼寶貝?天空飛彈雄一飛彈雄二飛彈我們東營的對面是什麼?寧德山都澳峽埔潛水艇的基地老共啊他一出來你瞄準他砰給他打掉他受得了嗎?"},{"start":1497.861,"end":1524.651,"text":"他無人機可以飛到你的東營的上空你東營底下在幹什麼部署什麼清清楚楚大部分防禦公司重裝備都在地底下好你只要發射一顆誰倒霉老百姓倒霉住在土地上的都是老百姓在做生意幹什麼的認為大陸不會打我們東營二兵科全部躲在地下打不到二兵科老百姓先死"},{"start":1526.67,"end":1532.618,"text":"院長你要不要給中語老百姓一點安全的價值如果委員都講到這一段你就知道政府怎麼會"},{"start":1534.76,"end":1562.652,"text":"會不照顧到離島會覺得離島不重要離島非常重要雖然現在已經不是戰地文化它至少是我們在防衛台灣的第一線上面的官兵上面的居民上面所有的設施都是保障整個台澎金馬安全的第一線政府當然極端的重視啊這個不用討論啦國防部有沒有跟你報告他的兵推結果有沒有告訴你兵推啊兵棋推演"},{"start":1565.222,"end":1593.771,"text":"馬祖的兵推喔讓你獨立作戰欸老共打過來你獨立作戰欸兵推就是讓我們中兵推的結果做更多的改善更多的補強這個才是兵推的結果他要圍亮島亮島上面二三十個兵還要解放軍來圍喔那麼漁船就把你弄垮了只有二三十個兵高登也是幾十個啊是不是我們現在不是等著老共打我們我們老百姓都在想說"},{"start":1595.458,"end":1623.84,"text":"我們馬祖沒有罵你啊你不會打我吧我們所做的準備就是我所做的這個任何準備就是希望不要引起戰爭因為我們有足夠的能力保護自己所以現在的戰爭應該是用科技的戰爭不是兵力的多寡是關鍵是科技能不能就整個系統來維護台澎金馬整個的安全你知道馬祖老闆已經從哪裡搬來了嗎不是從台灣搬過去喔是從大陸搬過來的喔"},{"start":1625.189,"end":1651.465,"text":"對我們來講都是中華民國的國民這個沒錯啊問題他是從黃崎台陸北郊連江福州長樂從那邊搬過來的梅花那邊搬過來的搬到馬祖來定居然後在那邊下一代是這麼出來的你現在說跟對面打仗你夠匪我們沒有要跟他打仗我們只希望他不要隨意的擴張武力侵犯我們的權權"},{"start":1653.155,"end":1674.663,"text":"對面是我堂哥堂弟有的叫他堂嫂老一輩走了 我們現在變成老了我們變成阿公阿嬤了你叫我們兩邊對打沒有啊 沒有叫你兩邊我們都從來不主張任何對打我們只希望他不要侵犯我們的主權我們做好自己的準備讓他不敢對我們有心存企圖心跟妄想 這樣就好了"},{"start":1675.163,"end":1698.633,"text":"你說老共跟我們有講過什麼統一獨立從來沒講過他沒有跟我講過我去大陸那麼多次沒有跟我聊這些東西但他實際在做的就是要併吞我們的主權不是嗎他就說你不要獨立我就說對你怎麼樣你去那邊講中華民國這兩個大人的事情跟我們什麼關係委員到那邊也講中華民國他大概就翻桌了我們是夾縫中裡面的求生存"},{"start":1700.993,"end":1712.547,"text":"所以我們要保障是這樣的一個民主生活方式不要被破壞掉那包括從各地來的在馬祖在金門的從各地方來的也都希望維持現在的生活制度跟社會制度"},{"start":1713.237,"end":1742.86,"text":"所以院長今天講來講去 光光拜託您光光我們會全力發展跟農業部講 協助我們好不好我會請農業部去研究如何協助馬祖的漁民在漁業的振興我知道那漁業的振興是困難的你不要預算編個兩百萬 三百萬 五百萬 編個一千萬塘災一下 唬爛一下就過了是不是也不要一次三五十億啊這個請院長幫個忙另外 院博士長這邊好不好 院長也交代了"},{"start":1743.646,"end":1771.52,"text":"我希望這個一個月之內馬祖大橋由您親自主持或是部長主持好不好,你開個會馬上把他...一定會接觸,一定會送他來接觸起碼明年進入...我們綜合計畫花了一億五千萬耶世襲也說技術沒問題啦,工程技術沒問題啦錢也沒問題啦你一年編個五十億、三十億嘛我又沒有叫你全部幾百億通通編進來你慢慢編嘛"},{"start":1772.714,"end":1795.019,"text":"如果計畫編出來經過審議審查之後當然是逐年的連續預算來做編列搞不好你現在今年明年編了以後過兩年把這個爛攤子丟給國民黨去了嘛第一個這個不是爛攤子而且政府的這個施政是延續的這不是爛攤子政府的施政是延續的不會隨便亂丟但是明年好不好"},{"start":1798.257,"end":1800.942,"text":"院長,拜託啦好好,市長請就好我們會結束,謝謝委員好,謝謝陳委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}