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謝謝"},{"start":39.365,"end":41.928,"text":"請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":55.253,"end":79.776,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第一次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國114年10月1日星期三9時13分至9時16分地點群雄樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林思明委員等14人主席郭文國報告事項一本院秘書長韓衛第十一屆第四會期本院各委員會召集委員選舉相關事宜"},{"start":80.776,"end":106.412,"text":"業經本院人事處提報本院第十一屆第四會及第一次會議決定 照案通過再案二 宣讀本會及本會召集委員選舉而明冊選舉事項 選舉立法院第十一屆第四會及本會召集委員一 立法院各委員會召集委員選舉辦法第五及第八條召集委員之選舉吳京明單計法票選之但經各黨團之書面同意亦得推選方式行之"},{"start":107.112,"end":124.055,"text":"主席宣告推選林委員施民及李委員昆成為立法院第十一屆第四會及財政委員會召集委員宣讀完畢請問各位委員對上次議事錄有異議議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程"},{"start":125.492,"end":147.032,"text":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金融率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司監管相關機構有關制裁團法人台灣證券交易所股份有限公司台灣期貨交易所股份有限公司台灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長總經理列席業務報告並被質詢宣讀完畢"},{"start":149.966,"end":176.317,"text":"那我先介紹現在在場的出席的委員吳秉瑞委員林德福委員接著我來介紹與會的政府官員經委會主委彭金榮主委金融市場發展及創新處處長胡哲華"},{"start":180.467,"end":190.814,"text":"綜合規劃處處長 林希聖法律事務處處長 林志憲國際業務處處長 賴明賢資訊服務處處長 林玉泰秘書室主任 江俊德人事室主任 孫成錦"},{"start":210.083,"end":234.311,"text":"主計事主任簡鳳琴政風事主任趙立金銀行局局長童振章證券期貨局局長張振山保險局局長王立慧檢察局局長賴新國"},{"start":238.431,"end":266.149,"text":"中央存管保險股份有限公司總經理鄭明慧台灣證券交易所股份有限公司董事長林修銘總經理李愛玲台灣期貨交易所股份有限公司董事長吳志興總經理周建榮台灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司董事長林秉輝"},{"start":269.18,"end":292.348,"text":"總經理陳德湘財團法人中華民國證券櫃台買賣中心董事長簡立中總經理陳立青財團法人證券投資人及期貨交易人保護中心董事長張新替總經理林俊宏"},{"start":295.124,"end":321.843,"text":"財團法人 中華民國證券暨期貨市場發展基金會總經理 張立真財團法人 聯合信用卡處理中心董事長 桂仙農總經理 林棟良財團法人 金融聯合徵信中心總經理 張國明財團法人 台灣金融研訓院院長 高一純"},{"start":325.61,"end":349.857,"text":"財團法人汽車交通事故特別補償基金總經理陳在懷財團法人住宅地震保險基金代理董事長張嘉琳代理總經理辛進賢財團法人保險安定基金董事長石百達總經理陳昌正"},{"start":353.82,"end":366.464,"text":"財政法人保險事業發展中心董事長黃洪志總經理詹芳舒財政法人金融消費評議中心董事長杜怡靜總經理羅俊偉"},{"start":375.973,"end":403.71,"text":"今日議程安排邀請金融監督管理委員會列席業務報告現在請金管會彭主委進行業務報告主席各位委員各位同仁以及在場的媒體朋友大家早安今天陳貴委員會邀請提出報告自感榮幸以下緊究國內金融概況及重要工作事項提出報告"},{"start":404.744,"end":423.589,"text":"有關國內金融概況部分金融業截至8月3月的稅前盈餘為6000餘億元比去年同期減少2000餘億元主要受新台幣升值及投資利益減少所致本國銀行資本市足率為15.65%餘放比例為0.16受信品質良好"},{"start":424.449,"end":432.832,"text":"證券市場截至114年9月底上市櫃總加數為1900餘家總市值約為90兆元較去年同期成長3.08及16.24%基本面穩健保險業資產總額為36兆9千餘億元較去年同期增加1284億持續穩健成長"},{"start":445.057,"end":466.396,"text":"重點工作事項部分一強化金融業資本韌性及風險管理實施新一代清償能力保險業實施新一代清償能力以陸續發布四階段在地化過渡措施並以預告修正保險業資本氏族管理辦法近期將配合訂定發布保險業自有資本及風險資本之計算方法說明二推動"},{"start":467.637,"end":488.003,"text":"IFR-17接軌協助保險業因應近期國際金融情勢產生市場波動實施相關暫停措施以協助業者得以順利實施IFR-17及新一代清償能力制度另外協助受險業更允當表達匯率波動對其財務制影響及更符合其長期經營特性將研議保險業匯率風險財務會計允當表達之可行方式"},{"start":492.133,"end":509.671,"text":"今年並已請本國銀行舉辦監理壓力測試結果顯示具備一定風險承擔能力辦理金融資安攻防演練自六月起陸續辦理金融機構DDoS攻防演練及網路攻防演練等二 健全金融市場發展部分"},{"start":510.572,"end":525.022,"text":"修正證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法並於7月16號總統公告實施規劃推動亞洲創新投資平台由交易所及櫃買中心分別聚焦12個前瞻新經濟產業及5個重點特色產業"},{"start":527.344,"end":546.688,"text":"建立具國際競爭力的上市櫃制度以吸引國內外企業在台籌資掛牌推動股市價值提升計畫持續鼓勵信託業務發展引導保險業資金投資國內與國發會財政部等部會研商增加公建相關案源並鬆綁法規加大投資誘因研議保險業投資創投事業於一定額度內適用較低風險係數三 落實消費者權益保護與普惠金融"},{"start":555.73,"end":577.867,"text":"修正保險法部分條文明定保險契約之解約金債權豁免強制執行之類型及介入權制度6月18號經總統公布實施令強化融資租賃業消費者保護措施於6月完成金融消費消費者保護法這相關執法首階段納管13家業者已於9月15日生效落實金融業"},{"start":579.755,"end":596.176,"text":"公平代課原則擴大危險保險保障範圍並督導銀行工會辦理金融科技打詐高峰會及成立防範金融詐騙委員會增進公司部門跨域合作並進行跨部會合作打擊詐騙共同強化打詐措施"},{"start":597.321,"end":621.906,"text":"公布我國普惠金融衡量指標完善我國普惠金融指標體系四 推動亞洲資產管理中心設立亞洲資產管理中心高雄事辦專區目前已有17家銀行4家保險業9家投信股及3家證券商進駐二 辦理台灣州活動參著日本州的做法以台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心為主軸由本會協同"},{"start":623.226,"end":648.894,"text":"政交所等相關周邊單位共同規劃於10月15日至10月23日舉辦台灣周以其藉此強化引資與宣傳效果三 推動具台灣特色TESA帳戶第一階段由吉保建立國人的TESA管理專戶於6月30日上線第二階段持續相關部會延伸租稅及其他誘因增加TESA普及率及參與率完成台日"},{"start":650.083,"end":664.373,"text":"ETF相互掛牌及開放主動式多資產ETF台日ETF已於9月18日相互掛牌完成令截至8月底已有8檔主動式ETF掛牌1檔被動式平衡ETF掛牌上櫃資產規模分別為約500億元及14.4億元"},{"start":670.103,"end":687.29,"text":"鼓勵國外資產管理中心設立區域中心目前有聯伯、安聯、謹順、摩根、貝萊德、富達、漢陽等7家外資投信集團已決定設置區域中心延長國際保險業務分公司OIU租會優惠年限及開放OIU保險商品"},{"start":687.99,"end":697.023,"text":"引導鼓勵保險業資金辦理公共及社會福利事業放寬保險業對公建社福事業專案投資等領域投資限額從現行保險業資金比重的10%提高到15%"},{"start":703.708,"end":721.753,"text":"並成立推動辦公室及諮詢平台並配置專職人員運作提供常態性對參與者之整合式諮詢服務並成立金融發展及雅致中心策進會及國際四大會議事務所諮詢平台定期分享國際趨勢、實務觀察及業者意見交流"},{"start":724.514,"end":752.787,"text":"截至114年8月底金融資產管理規模已達34.4兆較計畫推動前增加約2.8兆5 加速金融科技創新與發展嚴定虛擬資產服務法及穩定並草案及推動開放穩定幣發行專法草案已於6月27日呈報行政院審議該草案包括穩定幣發行及管理章令虛擬資產保管業務主題式業務事辦目前已有4家銀行獲准事辦"},{"start":753.988,"end":775.166,"text":"另外 已於114年7月發布保險業設立許可及管理辦法實施向法規開放申請設立數位保險公司推動RWA代幣化計畫持續進行中發布數位金融服務包容性指引鬆綁保險業辦理電子商務相關規範普惠金融 金融科技主題式推廣活動"},{"start":776.167,"end":780.396,"text":"精進金融科技發展獎補助措施督導規劃2025台北金融科技論壇"},{"start":785.629,"end":809.206,"text":"六 落實永續金融驅動低碳轉型持續推動永續經濟活動參考指引目前以今年6月至8月已辦理18場宣導活動並收集意見持續精進指引內容持續辦理永續金融評鑑第三屆評鑑將擴大受評對象將新興永續發展政策及外界關注議題納入新評鑑指標"},{"start":812.032,"end":826.708,"text":"協助企業接軌IFRS永續揭露準則本會持續督導專案小組協助企業順利接軌並預計114年底完成年報編制準則相關法規五 推動永續綠色金融商品"},{"start":828.795,"end":849.792,"text":"結與為建立安全與發展並進的新金融市場本會將依循本報告所提六大重要市政面向持續強化金融韌性健全金融市場發展保護消費者權益打造具台灣特色之亞洲資產管理中心推動金融科技發展透過綠色及轉型金融行動方案等引導及帶動產業永續轉型發展以上報告"},{"start":854.176,"end":882.558,"text":"上席委員提供寶貴建議及指導並祝各位委員身體健康 萬事如意 謝謝好 我們謝謝彭主委的報告現在開始詢答先做以下的宣告每位初席委員發言時間8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間5分鐘今日上午10點截止發言登記現在依登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員質詢"},{"start":897.777,"end":910.656,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請彭主委 軍管會彭主委好 我們請彭主委委員長主委 里長主委 我請教因為中國稀土限制出口"},{"start":911.938,"end":933.784,"text":"整個美中的貿易戰升溫上週美股大雪崩我請問主委穩健的台股面對整個國際局勢的動盪是不是因為技術面的大跌衝擊影響到台股基本面的發展會不會是因為這樣子"},{"start":935.12,"end":956.974,"text":"我想跟委員報告就是台股在過去的表現確實是相對是穩健我想從10月10號這個消息那個出來以後因為我們遇到廉價嘛沒有反應因為我剛剛也看了一下今天剛剛在我上台為止大概我們現在下跌的幅度呢跟美國來講確實收斂了那個不少我想"},{"start":958.015,"end":974.37,"text":"面對關稅的議題從4月開始到現在整個產業應該有經歷過很多很多的這樣消息面也好基本面的變化我想投資人面對這樣的消息的這些的消化以及解讀能力已經開始有一定的這樣的判讀能力"},{"start":974.75,"end":1003.188,"text":"那個主委啊畢竟上市櫃會因為股市是增花的市值而影響到根本的整個財務的一個操作那這個主委因為國安基金委員會召開第三季例行的會議啊考量整個市場仍存在不確定的因素決議啊繼續來執行安定市場的任務那我請問主委你認為美中貿易戰是不是"},{"start":1005.582,"end":1030.843,"text":"這個國安基金進退場執行安定任務的一個條件18號委員我想這個國安基金是因為財政部在處理我不方便評論我只是說剛剛委員提到這個美中兩個經濟體是世界上非常非常大的經濟體他們的任何的動作都影響到全球的這個所有的資本市場我想這部分我們儘管會密切的注意像這樣的情勢的發展"},{"start":1031.644,"end":1059.179,"text":"那個主委國安基金委員會表示認為台美對等關稅談判及232條款調查結果尚未定案後續效應需審慎因應不及現在就退場那我請問主委如果談判時時程拉長那後續效應引發全球貿易戰那是不是代表國安基金安定市場的任務可能會持續的延長你認為呢"},{"start":1060.8,"end":1082.266,"text":"是 剛剛國安基金因為他有他自己的目的啦我剛剛跟委員報告了就是他的他的主政單位財政部但是我們儘管會在對於市場制度我們是期待這個制度能夠回歸到市場機制我們充分的揭露資訊在制度上穩健的建立相關的遊戲規則我想當然市場上會有很多消息面以及這些所謂的國際這些"},{"start":1085.647,"end":1100.339,"text":"這個經貿之間的增值所產生的一些的影響我想我們資本市場就是充分的反映所有的資訊我們建立一個完善的制度給投資人來進行這樣的一個運作本主委我請教這個"},{"start":1103.055,"end":1120.671,"text":"你曾說今年股市主要變數包括川普上任影響整個國際金融市場甚大那多項變數包括美國聯準會的利率政策以及對股匯市都有影響那金管會都會關注"},{"start":1122.045,"end":1150.087,"text":"主委那台股由於今年四月是最低點的時候是一萬七千多點到現在台股大盤已經上漲到兩萬七千多點整整六個月上漲了一萬點那我請問主委面對川普關稅戰的不確定性台股大盤卻反應上漲你認為這樣的台股大盤發展是正常還是異常呢"},{"start":1150.734,"end":1169.23,"text":"其實我覺得全球的經濟環境都在做很大很大的變化我想剛才委員提到就是說台股在創歷史新高的過程當中其實我們看我們全球的主要國家的股市其實不是只有台灣我想全球的整個經濟環境做很大的變更"},{"start":1170.171,"end":1190.413,"text":"那跟以前比如說可能10年20年前不太一樣剛剛委員也提到就是確實像美國的這些的關稅政策關稅那個衝擊都很大尤其那個一般傳產業啊還有像美元的那個利率它的走向還有這些地緣政治都是影響台灣資本市場非常重要因素目前應該還是"},{"start":1191.978,"end":1213.292,"text":"這樣喔 主委你說未來一年全球的經濟情勢都有大波動在不確定性成為常態之下金管會將對整個資本市場保持高度的關注那我請問主委金管會對目前整個資本市場的發展以及未來投資和運作你認為應該是積極樂觀還是保守樂觀甚至於還是應該要居高思維你的論點呢"},{"start":1220.576,"end":1240.227,"text":"跟委員報告我想在過去我在這裡回答委員的那個詢問的時候我都再三的強調儘管會不會對未來的股市做任何的預期但是呢我們相信所有的股市最終還是回落到基本面那我們從這個因素來看的話"},{"start":1241.107,"end":1269.617,"text":"台灣的產業整個的營收也好獲利的數字也好今年確實是表現的相對的是比較優異我想有基本面的支撐是最重要的我想最終不管消息面一些因素最終還是要反映基本的基本面我知道要不要居高思維因為講實在話很多那些傳產業甚至於現在很多人失業像這些都是未來會變成社會問題"},{"start":1271.595,"end":1298.033,"text":"那你像這個關稅的不確定性衝擊那些產業尤其傳產真的很嚴重對就是在這一方面我們在做金融支持的部分其實我們還是持續的在做當然整個關稅影響到的不是只是金融市場我想整個影響包括我們的進出口都會受到這些影響我只是說我們各司其職我們在金融業的部分有關資本市場以及我們金融支持的部分我們會持續來努力"},{"start":1298.72,"end":1318.656,"text":"那個 主委啊 我再請教 因為八月底時這個公股銀行2025年上半年海外獲利統計出爐八大公股這個海外獲利這個合計佔比維持在差不多兩成以上其中又以兆豐銀行接近三成最高"},{"start":1319.437,"end":1335.308,"text":"那主委銀行竟然有相當比例海外獲利的占比那為什麼最近公股銀行持續傳出要診病或裁測的消息我想這一點本席不大了解請主委你來做說明"},{"start":1335.788,"end":1357.594,"text":"我想因為公股當然是因為這部分站在我們金融經營的立場我們是尊重公司治理他們自己我們過去確實我們有看到五家公股裁測了12個海外的據點然後主要的地方也是集中在一些地方我想他們自己經由的經營的考量那有些是因為他們確實在業務上面已經做了一些調整我想在"},{"start":1358.474,"end":1374.659,"text":"過去我們是會去了解希望他們還是兼顧到一些比如說有一些我們的客戶的一些的需求但是呢最後他們也都做出這樣的決定我們是表示尊重不過我們還是會關切是否有這樣他們這樣裁測是否適當"},{"start":1375.379,"end":1394.998,"text":"主委啊 就以您專業的立場 供股行庫整併或裁測除了營運獲利考量外 是不是也有政策目的考量的成分那你認為近期像川普經貿關稅這些政策是不是也是國內供股行庫海外據點發生變化的一個原因呢"},{"start":1395.478,"end":1423.556,"text":"我想這原因非常的複雜因為就是說比如說我們在就以國內的金融機構設立分支機構為例他也是過去曾經有一段是高峰期大家都希望來設分行但是隨著我們的經營型態已經客戶需求以及客戶行為的改變他也要做這個調整相對的隨著國際市場的改變那實際上這個他們在做這些調整我們是覺得只要是符合他們公司自己程序以及他們業務上的考量我覺得我們都會尊重"},{"start":1424.456,"end":1443.005,"text":"主委 按照公股銀行海外據點 似乎有加速來整併的狀況且根據各銀行的說法 策點主要包括政局不穩 營運成本高資源配置效率低 以及數位化趨勢的改變"},{"start":1444.345,"end":1460.236,"text":"這些金融的服務模式那我請問主委公股銀行海外據點加速整併是不是代表台灣我們的政府啊對新南向政策計畫也必須做出相當程度的調整你認為呢"},{"start":1461.156,"end":1484.491,"text":"其實本來事業經營就要保持高度的靈活性以及適應環境的改變像比如這次我們有看到有些光谷測他是測在某些特定地區因為他的整個整個的經營環境已經做了改變那我想這部分或是他商機已經不在或是因為其他比如說的因素不穩定的時候他可能就會測走我想這個大概是經營商業上也是要保有一定的彈性"},{"start":1485.892,"end":1500.88,"text":"這個其實我們也可以看到我們這個國營在海外的這樣那個擴張確實在最近幾年已經展現它的成效陳儒剛才指示就是說他們現在獲利海外獲利越高也成為很重要的獲利的引擎"},{"start":1501.3,"end":1516.759,"text":"那個主委又或者參與新南向政策的台商早已經出現投資板塊的移動所以說公股銀行才決定部分新南向國家這些海外據點整併或撤離是不是有這樣的考量"},{"start":1517.119,"end":1538.579,"text":"其實我們看到其實看國營這個動向不應該只看公股其他我覺得很多我們是整個民營行因為畢竟我們的客戶不是只有公股在服務但是呢我們也看到我們的銀行其實也保持非常靈活的這樣的一個做法其實我們站在一個金融監理呢我們是希望他們做好自己的風險評估以及他們公司治理能夠完備那這部分我們都尊重他們的經營"},{"start":1539.079,"end":1557.722,"text":"好最後一點我請問主委相較之下未來公股銀行如果追隨台積電海外佈局腳步積極你認為前進日跟美的市場新東向有沒有可能促成公股銀行設置海外據點的另一波熱潮會不會"},{"start":1558.396,"end":1576.153,"text":"其實我覺得我們的公股在過去契金的部分本來就是它的強項跟隨客戶本來就是他們現在很重要的一個策略的思考我想這部分還是一樣剛剛講說他們會有自己的判斷尊重他們以及發揮他們優勢來進行他業務的拓展好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝好 我們謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員"},{"start":1593.467,"end":1619.133,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會彭主委我們請彭主委委員長主委早剛剛你提到說這兩天國際的變化使得美中的對抗好像有深分的疑慮結果衍生出虛擬貨幣爆倉的事件而且那個爆倉的金額非常的大這個你有什麼看法"},{"start":1619.827,"end":1644.81,"text":"我想虛擬資產在一開始出現的時候這個就是他非常重要的一個特質波動大這也是後來大家提到穩定幣為什麼出來很重要的原因我想這一次的這些的這個波動這麼大確實是還有就是主要剛才講的爆倉主要是他們做槓桿交易槓桿交易的話這是跌20%假如做4倍的話基本上就全部出場"},{"start":1645.951,"end":1675.325,"text":"我想這裡提醒就是說反而虛擬資產就有這個特質這也是一個很好的我覺得整個的個案出來以後也讓我們體會到這個虛擬資產的交易它具有的不確定性跟風險性你的報告裡面關於這一塊有提到說你們現在正在研議而且向行政院已經提出你們的草案我在這個地方我的想法要跟你分享這件事情要穩健要很注意穩健"},{"start":1676.767,"end":1701.255,"text":"我們的台灣人的民族性賺錢都說自己很行萬一集體賠錢就會找你算帳都算政府的帳你一定要切記我這個講法我以富油價這件事件為例富油價就是他們去玩期貨結果全部都出場對不對到好幾年去金管會門口在那邊抗議了很久"},{"start":1703.052,"end":1729.201,"text":"你的石油期貨國內基本上這個是一個很冷門的東西那我以那個事件為例然後不論對錯就再一次印證我這個講法賺錢的人都覺得自己很行不是去感謝別人那但是如果賠了錢而且是集體賠了錢他要找你政府算帳說是你政府害的所以你那個版本你現在可不可以先透露一下你的"},{"start":1731.553,"end":1748.073,"text":"這個穩健的部分要如何來防止這種事情謝謝委員其實委員剛剛提醒這也是就是因為它是一個具有不確定跟風險的這樣的一個工具或是這樣的市場所以我們更要透過一個專法的架構來做這樣的一個保護我們的投資人"},{"start":1748.934,"end":1778.472,"text":"因為主要是剛才講這是一個全球不是只有台灣在那個虛擬資產的世界是沒有國界的但是呢我們可以透過一些行政的這樣的一個措施所以透過這個專法我們可以跟我們實體的監理做連結那對於這些在境內交易的這些民眾當然已經在你有跨境能力交易我們是沒有辦法在這邊做做這樣比較全面的管理但是至少這一部分呢我們反而是就是因為這樣我們更應該要有這樣的一個做法"},{"start":1779.485,"end":1798.065,"text":"那跟穩定幣的做法會不一樣嗎穩定幣其實跟虛擬資產又是另外一個區塊所以我們是因為就以美國來講它的穩定幣背後要有相等價的美金或是美國公債才可以做發行所以是一比一的但是台灣有需要發行嗎"},{"start":1799.113,"end":1816.45,"text":"其實這是一個很有趣的議題有不同的角度思考當然就以假設國際貨幣清算的角度來看的話其實台幣不是一個國際上面的通用的主流貨幣我想這個當然在這一部分還是以美元或是其他的強勢貨幣為主"},{"start":1818.772,"end":1842.35,"text":"但是如果他涉及到未來比如說很多人在推測說未來假設RWA成為是一個越來越普遍還有國內的支付的部分那這樣的話我們還是會有這樣的一個本國必別的穩定幣存在的空間那有一個說法說穩定幣通行之後因為就在網路上面很直接就處理了第一個銀行的角色不見了第二個"},{"start":1844.858,"end":1864.848,"text":"這個是不是以後要打砸的時候困難度會增加這兩個事情其實這一題兩面就是銀行就像假設銀行如果他固守於現在的傳統業務面對未來像這種虛擬金融或是數位金融的挑戰這確實是一個不可知的領域就像剛才講說假設我過去的這個現金做放款"},{"start":1865.168,"end":1891.876,"text":"那現在如果很多人把它做為一個穩定幣就是變成質押在那邊他在另外一個世界裡面是在用這個法幣的穩定幣在運作的時候確實在銀行如果你還是固守在原有的角色是沒有的但是剛剛文燁提到打詐的部分假設這個未來比如說這個穩定幣或這個虛擬資產在我們的管控範圍的範圍更大的話我們應該是對打詐應該是更有著力點是喔"},{"start":1895.028,"end":1915.656,"text":"這個全球的網路上面往來就支付了你你如果對於打詐會你覺得會反而有幫助因為比如說我們現在來講就像我們現在我們對現在虛擬資產服務業者我們禁止的所有的現金交易他就必須要透過我們的法幣帳戶進行交易那我們的KYC就會做到非常的清楚"},{"start":1915.976,"end":1941.596,"text":"那你剛剛提到的啊有一些人那就透過網路不經過台灣本身內部的一些他就直接跟國外交易了對這是全世界面臨到的問題這要透過國際合作這個確實是不是只有台灣所獨有在網路世界是沒有國界好那剛剛有提到這幾年因為台灣這個科技業的發展蓬勃發展那使得我們的證券交易市場規模不停的擴大現在已經是全世界"},{"start":1942.617,"end":1970.78,"text":"排名第幾了 第八了嘛已經急進前十了這以台灣的人口量來講是非常不容易那但是證券交易同時就是我們的資本市場也要穩定所以這一年來的IPO的這個狀況你有掌握嗎IPO的話我想主要是詳細的數字我可能沒辦法跟委員說明那個櫃買跟證交所同事長也來請那個櫃買跟交易所過去可以跟委員報告一下去年我們IPO的狀況"},{"start":1974.325,"end":1996.377,"text":"報告委員 我們今年的IPO的狀況基本上來講的話 交易所這邊創新版加上上市一般版的話大概40多家左右40多家 然後他的資本額是多少他的資本額 你很難 因為他難以統計創新版大概在兩三億"},{"start":1999.907,"end":2019.248,"text":"上市一般版大概是六七億啦資本額就是要上你們的市六億啊我的意思說這一些你說IPO有四十幾家在你們交易所嘛那他的資本額跟他的這個所謂的市值因為市值是每天浮動的但是資本額基本上是固定的這應該統計的出來啊"},{"start":2021.819,"end":2037.529,"text":"我這裡沒有好沒關係那你這時候再補啦那就是也是對我們的市場規模增加了不少40幾家相對於前幾年成績算是不錯啦我們預計今年會超過去年好那繼續加油但是這個其實是走鋼索"},{"start":2038.449,"end":2052.221,"text":"一方面要讓他上市但是另外一方面又要監管你也不能不讓市場規模擴大但是同時上市的時候那個標準的拿捏其實對你們來講是一個很艱難的工作要加油那前董事長在一邊呢各位委員報告我們去年有30家掛牌那今年已經有23家掛牌了"},{"start":2063.635,"end":2089.053,"text":"所以兩家加起來都跟前幾年比較好很多其實在以前財政部張部長的時代在馬政府執政 張部長用他證所稅的時代之前IPO曾經高達一年一百多家後來當然就是因為那個東西所以急劇就減少了所以我說要加油尤其是台灣的好公司希望留在台灣上市櫃不要讓他跑到外國去"},{"start":2090.774,"end":2102.962,"text":"有的會選擇去新加坡 選擇去香港這一次委員剛好我在報告的時候我們大概近期會對外宣布我們的亞洲創新投資平台我們就是打算做這件事好 那兩位董事長先請回座"},{"start":2104.054,"end":2128.239,"text":"這個最後在剩下一分鐘的時間就是問你問一個問題打炸是我們現在眼前很重要的一個問題但是打炸這個有警示帳戶會延伸管制的帳戶現在的反應就是說現在因為證券交易這麼的熱絡每天的交易這麼大那這些警示帳 延伸的管制帳戶因為你證券交易現在都是用線上交割嘛你不可能拿現金去嘛"},{"start":2128.999,"end":2156.722,"text":"那他要進他的帳戶要出他的帳戶都變成有困難那這一個反應金管會的看法是怎麼樣啊如何協助解決我想我已經提到就是應該是大概大概幾週前有一個他可能卡到他的那個就是畫布帳戶就是那個交割帳戶那這部分應該是後來我們了解可能是他那個城市所控的問題好那這個我們就很快改善我們也通知所有的銀行把這記取這個教訓不可以再犯"},{"start":2157.748,"end":2171,"text":"因為比一個例子我自己的帳戶我賣股票我錢要進去你說你把我鎖起來我約焦哥算誰的責任所以說現在他們在鎖空的時候我們要求他們必須要24小時專人服務的電話來負責解決這樣的問題"},{"start":2176.321,"end":2195.699,"text":"雖然打詐是政府非常重點而且很重要的工作但是我們在執行的過程中能夠減少對民眾的困擾也是一個重要的議題這個確實在比如說在主詐打詐跟比如說一些某一個比率誤判這樣產生的"},{"start":2197,"end":2209.211,"text":"民眾的不便這件事情我們盡量的我們也是請我們的銀行透過各式各樣的方法降低這樣我們一定要取得一個橫頻好 加油謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝吳委員接下來我們請賴世保委員"},{"start":2227.539,"end":2232.402,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請滕主委我們請滕主委委員早您早那麼先請教就是因為現在有關於輝達要設海外總部在台北市這個北思科的T478用地的爭議那現在來看的話就是因為新售這裡面有一個"},{"start":2257.215,"end":2279.717,"text":"賴總統已經說話了就希望中央跟地方好好的合作怎麼樣讓非達一定留在台北市或者是台灣這個地方那我就請問你因為你們金管會的你的武器在哪裡你們有什麼武器可以幫這個事情搞定 有沒有"},{"start":2280.954,"end":2296.521,"text":"報告委員其實這個從所有的媒體包括到今天截止各位很清楚這是一個主要是授權公司跟台北市政府他們在做一個在一個地上權上面雙方合約上面的爭議"},{"start":2297.842,"end":2324.523,"text":"那我們這邊呢在金管會上面很明顯的就是他們是一個不動產投資是一個因為我們的那個所謂的這些的地上權在我們的那個不動產交易管理辦法裡面他是屬於所謂的樹地的投資所以我們是從這個角度他就是我們一般假設金管會的角度來看他就是我們不動產投資管理的範疇至於說現在契約上的爭議那是他們在契約上面他們應該按照契約的精神去解決"},{"start":2325.387,"end":2350.487,"text":"好 那我就請教你因為原來跟台北市政府簽約叫新售可是現在它已經被消滅掉了還沒幾乎是吧 怎麼沒有呢它現在新病了啊台新跟新光病了以後它是預計明年1月1號對 但是在10月底之前在10月底才能夠決定新售其實是不見了 怎麼會還有呢新售還有嗎"},{"start":2353.218,"end":2381.517,"text":"就是因為兩家合併看是他們採用哪種合併在法律上他們現在應該他送件過來選擇的消滅公司應該是星光人壽但是他們事後兩家是合併在一起那更名為星光人壽大概是我們送的文件是這樣呈現的結果他們送給你的是星光人壽要被併的"},{"start":2382.998,"end":2399.735,"text":"不是他病人家嘛而他是法律上面的消滅公司對嘛 就是消滅公司嘛所以等於說跟台北市政府簽約的新獸不見了在法律上他是因為就等於說他變成現在跟台新合併以後的新的新光人獸"},{"start":2401.249,"end":2414.981,"text":"是嘛 就是在星星啊星星金礦底下的星光人獸嘛應該這樣 所以主體是變的喔對 那如果他們合併完成確實這個主體已經法律上不是原來的兩家它就變成一家"},{"start":2415.796,"end":2420.041,"text":"我剛跟委員報告我們是金融監理機關我們關注的是金融監理的議題我剛才說過這兩部分一個是他們之間的契約"},{"start":2436.178,"end":2462.471,"text":"的糾紛 這我們過去呢我們主管機關絕對不會介入到契約的糾紛但是他今天是一個不動產投資我們有一套完整的不動產投資的規範他就必須要遵守好 那他現在來講跟因為原來的新售原來的新售跟台北市政府簽是五年的時間要開發不動產但現在到今年底就是四年了結果現在動都沒有動"},{"start":2464.248,"end":2473.078,"text":"這個情況是不是一定要等到五年後才台北市政府才可以跟他解約還是說現在來講的話已經看得到不可能一年蓋好了"},{"start":2474.107,"end":2498.565,"text":"我想這個問題應該去問他們雙方但是我們這邊我剛跟委員講說就是我們現在關注的是他這個不動產投資案是否符合我們不動產的相關的規範現在沒有符合因為現在的話我們的規範是非常的清楚就是說當我取得這樣一個過戶過來以後都審的時間不算接下來是五年的時間你必須要及時利用且有收益"},{"start":2500.868,"end":2525.295,"text":"現在四年過去了到今年年底就四年了其餘都沒有動我們都不動了另外他們跟台北市政府的合約是一個這個要把它區分清楚那是他們合約上面訂定的問題我們這裡是本來其實我們這種所謂的地上權的投資已經非常非常多了已經不是只有這個案子我想這個都非常普遍你們怎麼監管地上權的投資你們怎麼監管"},{"start":2527.236,"end":2554.585,"text":"沒有 我們就剛才講說我們現在對不動產投資這明顯在保險法146號之二裡面投資必須即時利用且有收益所以說我們現在來講假設你買一個標定你必須要立刻就有收益假設你買土地的話土地不可能立刻有收益所以我們在那個辦法你明定就是給五年但五年裡面有特別講清楚就是說你前面的都審這個問題不在你身上對不對所以這個可以扣除那接下來就是五年的時間"},{"start":2557.804,"end":2585.105,"text":"那現在來講他五年到明年算不算到明年到期還沒因為其實各位如果看那個時序我想他們各自都有說明就是我取得以後他送督審那督審以後那我就請教你現在來講他們雙方因為現在新售有軟化了因為在雨熱的壓力底下他希望提出一個叫合意的解約這樣的方向你樂不樂見"},{"start":2586.506,"end":2606.695,"text":"這個我剛才跟委員報告過其實我接下來我也會不斷的說這是他們雙方之間的協議其實我們在一個金融監理機關我們是制度的建立者我們是管的是受險公司他的不動產投資所以等於說你在這個地方沒有任何阻力點他們合約的問題我們當然不會介入"},{"start":2609.787,"end":2628.393,"text":"簡單來講就是賴總統說要中央幫忙沒辦法可以幫忙中央有很多的部會中央有很多的部會我們在是個金融監理其實中央有非常非常多的部會不是只有金管會所以金管會沒有辦法我們是尊重我們這個體制尊重我們的監理的職權百花粉講就是你們是沒辦法幫"},{"start":2630.013,"end":2638.937,"text":"我們來看那個股市這個巨幅震盪今天本來說要這個外面都說今天要跌1000點以上事實上沒有了跌了400多1500點可是我的重點不是這裡我的重點在於說已經漲到27000可是你注意看股我們1800將近1800點的股票幾乎三分之二以上都沒有漲沒什麼漲都是跟AI相關的類股才有漲"},{"start":2660.125,"end":2669.208,"text":"這個到地的台灣就變成荷蘭病了經濟荷蘭病了就只有某個產業很好其他產業都不太好其他傳統產業五星價的人越來越多到上萬人了因為受到關稅的影響等等的這個你怎麼看這個事情你覺得AI相關股會不會泡沫啊"},{"start":2684.569,"end":2709.008,"text":"根本不知道我真的不是這方面的專業但是我也因為很多人提醒這樣我們在對金融市場的特別資本市場監理我也自己也開始去理解這個問題結果來發現就是說實際上這個AI這樣的一個所謂的商機不是只有台灣是全世界都在看好這件事情我也很多種說法我不會去做預測我只是說台灣在過去確實在"},{"start":2710.509,"end":2725.832,"text":"比如說我們過去從一萬多點漲到兩萬多點確實是集中在某一些產業這跟我們進出口的這也是高度的一致這也是為什麼說因為他整個基本因為時間到你就簡單講好不好台灣有沒有得到你從你股市監理的角度看台灣有沒有得到經濟荷蘭病的"},{"start":2734.375,"end":2757.055,"text":"這種現象有沒有其實我覺得非常多元有人從過去的歷史來看就是說好像是這樣但有人說其實他去分析國外的股票也是就是你賺錢的公司未來前景好他的股價持續漲另外但是你沒有前景的那股價就平均所以你的意思就是所以你的意思就是除了AI以外都不太會漲也不太賺錢所以都不漲"},{"start":2758.697,"end":2772.782,"text":"不是 不是就說大家對他的預期就說其他不是只有台灣股市是這樣就像比如說有人說2008年就齊漲齊跌不管好壞都漲多跌那個反而是一個奇怪但是有時候他假設我們市場越來越精準"},{"start":2773.72,"end":2781.786,"text":"我們投資人越來越聰明所以其實現在的情況在過去歷史上不見得能夠找得到我請教最後一個問題金管會有沒有能力查案網因為在10月7號台灣的複雜投信"},{"start":2793.954,"end":2814.748,"text":"215萬筆的客戶資料 按網售328 USDT 就是美金啦這麼便宜 一點多 萬分之一點多你們有沒有能力差這個事情因為投信投股很多都有投資人的個資他們這樣外洩 你們怎麼看"},{"start":2816.072,"end":2834.043,"text":"其實我想這個對所有的政府機關或是這些查緝單位都是一個重點我必須坦白跟各位跟委員報告我們經管會組織結構大家都非常透明我們只有一個知福處我們待會可以我們我們的專家這個是我們的志工專家我可以請我知福處來回答這個問題好 謝謝 處長"},{"start":2838.025,"end":2855.232,"text":"公務員報告 金管會有請財經公司成立金融資安資訊分量中心那他們目前有一個機制會定期去收集案碗上面相關的資訊有在收集嗎有 目前有定期在看就是要確保投信投顧的相關投資戶的個資"},{"start":2858.054,"end":2885.853,"text":"對 如果是案碗上面涉及金融機構的部分我們會有一個定期蒐集的機制如果有發現的話會通過金融機構來確認最近這一筆啊 你怎麼處理最近這一筆怎麼處理這一筆是不是我們再回去確認一下是不是在之前曾經處理過10月7號目前沒有看到這一筆我們事後再回回報告好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請郭國文委員"},{"start":2897.294,"end":2900.103,"text":"主席 麻煩請彭主委我們請彭主委委員好"},{"start":2904.884,"end":2929.981,"text":"主委好 那個明年就要接軌F17那有關於這一個新的這個債務清場的能力也要一同面對那最近常常聽到我們金港會對於整個監理寬容的這個相關的政策的一個訊息的一個釋放聽起來是有寬有鬆有寬有窄 有緊有鬆那標準我是不曉得在哪裡"},{"start":2931.742,"end":2946.851,"text":"寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏因為畢竟對向上每一個財務能力健全度不一嘛你如果包山包海你可能就會變成過度寬容對不對你如果區域嚴格的話那恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多"},{"start":2948.832,"end":2963.992,"text":"那要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理又不違反原則的情況底下我覺得現階段最重要關鍵我看起來如果就極端值來看的話現在普遍看到就是上山美邦的這個資本失足率長期來累積起來已經有連續七期"},{"start":2966.295,"end":2982.39,"text":"你如果連這個都可以接軌的話那顯然就會過度寬容你如果不接軌的話那你要如何面對這個要去清楚我覺得最基本一個原則我記得我之前問過黃天牧主委也就是說如果要接軌之前第一個RBC的部分要提高到200"},{"start":2983.991,"end":3004.425,"text":"第二個呢 要先自住金管會才會提供人住這個態度有沒有轉變其實沒有轉變沒有轉變那沒有轉變的情況底下呢商商美邦連續七期RBC已經落入資本不足那最近這個金管會你們說要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書"},{"start":3006.341,"end":3024.429,"text":"問題是連續三年半都提不出來了啊你現在就有辦法嗎這是第一個問題他有沒有能力你要做一個判準你要做一個判準你要給他們多少門檻還有期限才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變嘛 主委我跟委員稍微報告一下"},{"start":3025.589,"end":3042.899,"text":"其實受險業的資本氏族率跟他比如說我們先談這個案子啦你不要再談其他的教科書的原則啦好不好這一定要先講跟委員報告一下大家會以為就是說你資本氏族率不到200你就必須出場不是"},{"start":3043.599,"end":3056.784,"text":"資本市足率就是假設我最簡單的概念資本減掉負債你還要有一定的Buffer你Buffer低於我警戒值我叫你改善並不是這家公司不能經營我想這是一個前提對 我現在不是在談這個原理原則我談說這個狀況你要怎麼處理對 所以說不會影響到你監理寬容的尺度的拿捏那當然這是"},{"start":3064.426,"end":3084.633,"text":"這也是我們就是說怎麼做到公平接軌這是過去我們在這一年來我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點所以剛剛講 我也跟他講說RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會因為就像比如這張投影片講說財務不合格也能適用監理寬容這應該要回答兩個問題就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容"},{"start":3085.313,"end":3111.125,"text":"如果是用不一樣的監禮規範那當然就有考慮到公平性了所以我們會很快的就公佈這套制度就可以看得到就是說不會因為你原來原來這個責任會因為接軌而消失這個我想很簡單的道理主委 講白一點你當然是你有一個政策目標嘛你要全部讓他接軌是一個態度還是要分級處理還是要掌握一定的原則我現在本席要問你是說你現在很明顯就是遇到這個問題嘛"},{"start":3112.466,"end":3133.508,"text":"那接下來你要對商商營的部分呢你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象或者你要準備當新郎要把他迎娶我問你是說你最後怎麼辦啊如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下你總要有一個基本的態度出來嘛現在沒多久了 現在十月了"},{"start":3134.725,"end":3160.308,"text":"對啊所以說我們現在因為這個就是因為像委員講的複雜程度很高所以我們過去呢一定要非常周延討論我想我們到現在還沒討論出來討論出來了討論出來態度如何我剛跟各位講過假設啦我們有一個叫做這個信賴保護原則就是說你現在是一個RBC及格的公司比如說按照我們基準點就是6月30號及格的公司不會因為我換一個制度突然你就"},{"start":3161.149,"end":3178.479,"text":"你就突然就必須要這個所以我們給一個過度就是剛剛委員提到的寬容但這個過程當中如果說因為你因為一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分這部分你還是要持續來完成但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少"},{"start":3179.099,"end":3193.848,"text":"主委你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理你看你最近的整個這個態度是區言或是分歧也不清楚像這保化中心最近釋放出來說研究於這個ICS2.0的過渡措施呢可借金額是15年"},{"start":3194.548,"end":3211.588,"text":"或超接五年一些業界就開始想說為什麼又變來變去這是第一啦第二部分呢過去我們對整個這個IFO 17的這個部分的接軌基本上IFO 17它主要是要透明化嘛可是你最近呢你的報告都說也提到要重新去評估啊這個整個海外投資的狀況"},{"start":3214.932,"end":3229.681,"text":"海外投資的這個匯殺損的部分過去就是因為過度寬容開放了海外投資45%的一個上限之後以至於現在要承擔這麼多的曝血嘛這是第一嘛第二個部分呢你現在匯損的部分呢你說要蓋牌"},{"start":3231.522,"end":3257.343,"text":"那這不是跟i4-17的這個透明化又相衝我嗎這個跟委員講絕對不是蓋牌我想這是一個非常非常專業也很難去一次說清楚我嘗試跟委員報告委員剛剛講的叫做蓋牌是客氣的沒有剛剛那個超額跟那個超借跟一般的概念那個變來變去其實並沒有變來變去你把財務不要讓它受到匯率風險不揭露然後呢讓業者能在整個這一個"},{"start":3259.104,"end":3280.698,"text":"這個匯率對他有利的時候他又說他大舉了獲利也就是說呢他獲利的時候他強調透明化他虧損的時候他蓋牌化不是 其實委員其實不是吧你不應該如此吧絕對不是這樣子可是你看起來是這樣子啊你政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊那你要好好說明一下你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌你要透明就全部透明剛剛委員講的就是說選擇性的蓋牌跟選擇性的透明絕對不是這樣我想委員您誤會了"},{"start":3283.76,"end":3312.544,"text":"因為今天我想可能時間不夠我盡量講就是我們應該這樣講說其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業那只是說我們的現在受選業這樣經營的型態現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解的時候我們應該尋求更允當表達他的方式而不是蓋牌就像剛才講說今天來講假設這樣做的話你好的你也沒有壞的你也不需要這就是一個公平的概念你要處理好當然你要處理好"},{"start":3313.144,"end":3339.05,"text":"這是我們絕對要做的你現在做了這麼多監理寬容你無非他也要做出一些一定的回饋你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛對不對其實我們叫監理寬容其實是不太適當這跟以前我們在河濱的監理寬容是不一樣再低化也可以啦 不管你用什麼名詞啦因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定現在本席要就教於您的時候當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候你要很清楚他大回饋的計畫內容而不是只有對象啊"},{"start":3340.611,"end":3354.651,"text":"對 這是另外一個他要去做的事情對 不是只有社會嘛不是只有員工嘛不是一個只有含糊的對象你要擬出一個具體的指標譬如講具體指標當中你報告一個的啊你就是說他資金海外資金回流的KPI"},{"start":3355.552,"end":3374.639,"text":"投入工件的比例有多少跟委員報告一下然後投入創新創投的比例有多少這是第一嘛第二個它可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽的保險而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型然後不斷的吸金然後又造成新的一個部險的模式出現謝謝委員其實委員你剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的就是說"},{"start":3375.399,"end":3404.971,"text":"我們推出一個嚴格的資本世俗規範當然我們很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位我們給他15年的時間讓你好好做到那一點但這個過程當中將來講說你怎麼樣去調整你的那個資產負債結構剛剛委員講到提到怎麼樣做更多更穩健的經營然後來搭配你的資本監理制度這是我們未來整套馬上會公布的你要給他設定一個基本的一個可能計畫的一個原則跟參考依據嗎這個是應該要做的不是讓他自由的去擬定嗎這樣他符合"},{"start":3404.991,"end":3406.292,"text":"我期待你看出一個更具體的不要忽鬆 忽緊 忽寬 忽窄"},{"start":3428.835,"end":3457.551,"text":"我想另外一個部分你知道我們現在股票的蓬勃發展但是弊案好像隨之而來之前如果我們在討論這個的部分當初我們的整個股票市場的市值從原來的十大現在變成全球八大原來的九十兆聽說可能會破百兆相對而言最近的整個內線交易炒股案就不斷發生"},{"start":3458.732,"end":3483.868,"text":"到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是一個法律制度規範的不足或者是判決的這個依據這個定罪率太低還是防逃的機制不夠否則的話這樣的風氣再下去的話站在一個主委你希望這個資本市場的穩定投資人的權益的保障這都是你應該要面對的問題不是嗎是"},{"start":3485.305,"end":3506.292,"text":"那主委面對這些問題你有沒有什麼想法跟做法其實我從上任開始我想在很多的地方我就發現到這是一個需要被好好來處理第一個我們很多的基金經理人我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正職的經理人是一個部分喔然後你看那朱國榮國保集團總裁落跑啦鮑宇大亨中文字落跑啦"},{"start":3506.992,"end":3521.769,"text":"重刀最典型的這個部分這個潛逃當然不是你的範圍嘛這個司法體系那個司法訴訟的時間太長也是造成他潛逃一個因素你看還有成德生技 迅達電大立光 成創科技所有的東西"},{"start":3522.91,"end":3550.152,"text":"都看不出來有什麼樣實質的嚇阻作用對這是一個司法的問題我想剛才委員司法問題也有可能是立法的問題制度的規範的問題就投影片後面那個跟單的部分我們是確實要好好來解決怎麼樣尊重這個專業然後怎麼樣透過我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式透過這些交易流來發現這些事情我想已經在做司法機關真的是末端主管機關還是在於你對不對"},{"start":3551.253,"end":3565.801,"text":"這些一連串的狀況當中我建議你你要我給你一個月的時間你擬一下問如何去解決這個問題跟亂象隨著整個資本市場不斷的壯大的情況弊案隨之增加也不是好事好不好"},{"start":3566.981,"end":3585.375,"text":"一個月可以吧可以可以我們把這個相關的一些問題一點把它釐清清楚制度怎麼解決政府的態度是如何要對投資大眾講清楚好不好那當然謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝國務委員那再請彭主委一個月內提報告接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請金管會主委我們請彭主委"},{"start":3598.426,"end":3619.469,"text":"主委早安早主委我想這個資本市場的引擎還有國家競爭力的一個象徵就是來自於經濟我們國家的一個經濟其實就是很明確的就是表現出來就是國家的競爭力那我針對的最新的這一個議題就是"},{"start":3623.952,"end":3645.737,"text":"新光人壽在T17跟T18的地上全案就是有沒有做到軍管會有沒有做到這個保護權益跟監管的一個責任剛才我聽到就是主委你跟賴思寶委員在對談的過程當中也針對相同的一個議題你特別有提醒到就是說工具不足"},{"start":3646.537,"end":3659.949,"text":"無法可管也不是因為我們不同的執掌有不同的執掌並不是只有監管會是 我們還有很多其他單位那必須要是跨部會的一個監管共同的來解決這一個問題"},{"start":3661.79,"end":3677.831,"text":"那這個新興病是經過金管會核定的一個併購案好 那我現在就是也一樣再回到就是賴斯堡委員的一個議題就是說合併後的一個存續公司那到底目前在華麗的主體是誰"},{"start":3680.188,"end":3702.361,"text":"其實按照他們在7月送過來的計劃書因為他們大概在7月下旬就已經把合併的申請送到保險局現在正在審查 補件審查中那他們是 剛剛我也報告過了他們在計劃書所呈送的是存續公司是台新人壽小米公司新光人壽合併以後更名為新光人壽"},{"start":3703.044,"end":3724.609,"text":"是 可是之前的星光人壽已經不存在了法律上面它在合併的時候它是被指定就是一個消滅公司但是實際上它所有的實體都還是在未來這合併的實體裡面好 那主委我請教你星光人壽的一個保護他們所有的保障是不是還存在完全不改變這是我們金融機構合併法裡面非常清楚明定"},{"start":3725.242,"end":3740.209,"text":"是完全不改變對 完全起碼我們就是已經保障了星光人壽的所有保護的一個權利這個過去合併案已經有很多很多已經有幾十年就是應該金融機構合併法從89年通過以後一直都是這樣"},{"start":3740.669,"end":3753.479,"text":"那到目前為止因為昨天李士川副市長他開了一個記者會他說今天就會終止跟星光人壽的一個合併"},{"start":3756.661,"end":3772.467,"text":"那個合併同意那個解決這一個狀況那如果就是說他們今天透過這樣的一個公開的一個程序的話那你認為台北市政府可以這樣的一個認定嗎站在金管會的立場上"},{"start":3773.103,"end":3791.001,"text":"我想剛才有委員詢問到我也是看這個新聞看到他們開了記者會台北市他們開了記者會說今天會發文給新光人壽提議怎麼樣來進行合議解約我想這是我剛才說過這個問題是他們跟新光人壽之間的"},{"start":3792.462,"end":3817.1,"text":"這個地上權的合約的爭議他們就按照合約上去解決這部分我想大概就是這個那金管會這邊所在意的就是說星光他針對T17 T18是一個不動產的投資案我們就按照我們不動產的相關規範來管理這件事情有沒有慢如果就是地上權的這個開花那星光人壽有沒有慢了那金管會有沒有失職"},{"start":3818.055,"end":3846.705,"text":"其實我剛才跟委員報告就是說我們的辦法裡面規定因為他的地上權就是我們是按照明確以樹地來做管理就是一塊土地來做管理那土地的開發我們因為保險法已經明確講就是說所有的不動產必須要及時利用且有收益但是對於既有的不動產比如說商辦或是大樓這些應該立刻要產生收益我們有一定的規定比如說一定期間之內你就必須要有收益否則的話我們會處罰或限期叫他改善"},{"start":3847.365,"end":3870.416,"text":"所以這個五年的時間我剛才有看到了你特別的這個回答其他的委員有特別講得很清楚就是說他還要透過都審所以他的計算方式並不是說合約開始簽訂了以後的五年是他透過了都審通過了以後的第一年開始這樣子算就是都審的時間不算那其他就是我們的五年"},{"start":3871.436,"end":3898.494,"text":"就是按照我們所謂的即時利用且有所謂對土地的管理的部分其實主委我們比較擔心的就是說新光人壽的一個公司的權益如果在沒有受損然後保護的權益也是被保存下來的時候那新壽是不是有背信的這一個問題新壽有沒有背信的問題我想這個可能是我在這裡要拜託就是我們金管會要密切的去注意這樣的一個問題"},{"start":3899.406,"end":3915.825,"text":"是當然比如說我剛才講我們在意的是公司比如說公司治理的程序是否符合我們內供內機相關公司治理的規範以及不動產投資是不是符合我們相關的內容那至於說他們契約上面的爭議其實很多人就把這兩個混在一起其實這兩個是"},{"start":3917.186,"end":3935.1,"text":"所以不只金管會可以管我想財政部還有經濟部還有其他跨部會其實都可以一起來參與中央都可以來參與監督也來協助這個案子當然有助於產業發展爭取外資投資這都是一致的"},{"start":3936.482,"end":3961.885,"text":"主委接著金融開放來跟你探討亞洲金融那個管理中心就是高雄的金融專區我們知道在7月1日正式的一個啟動那這個啟動的過程當中其實金融的開放我想不是只有市場的一個議題也是國土均衡的一個策略上的一個工具所以說擺在高雄其實上一次我有跟你請教過是不是"},{"start":3962.605,"end":3990.434,"text":"這一個專區其實在每一個縣市都有機會就是變成一個金融專區是不是這樣子的一個一個就是我們是不是以這樣子的一個鋪陳呢是的我想我在很多地方講過就是我們是參考日本的金融專區的設立像日本就四個城市他們這樣當然我們該講的主要是比如說我們各個各個地方政府願意提供什麼樣的誘因來吸引或是發展他的特色我們在金管這邊一定全力來支持"},{"start":3990.959,"end":4019.613,"text":"是所以就是說不是只有一個高雄專區他也有機會變成一個台南的專區那金管會都會全力的一個支持好那從高雄專區的一個吸引力是不是比照新加坡那是不是比較新加坡我想法治的一個穩定這個應該是沒有問題好 稅務的一個優惠那如果是新加坡的稅務的優惠的話他其實如果我們看那個資料"},{"start":4020.593,"end":4026.079,"text":"如果你有投資就是超過台幣267億你就可以免稅優惠稅到5%到10%那這一個我們高雄專區有沒有這樣子的一個稅務的優惠呢"},{"start":4038.004,"end":4065.123,"text":"我們的稅是屬於中央的權限就是稅法上面的規定地方的話我們就看像比如說以日本為例他們有些地方有課地方稅他們地方就可以決定來做這件事情我想這個稅的部分我們相較於比如新加坡確實在這一塊我們的是比較沒有那麼的突出像新加坡很明顯他比如說針對你外國投資的部分他對他的企業的所得稅"},{"start":4066.444,"end":4093.935,"text":"那還有就是比如說他們沒有那麼突出是表示沒有是不是那如果你沒有辦法就是優惠在這個稅率上優惠的話你怎麼吸引這個就是比較多的一個這個產業願意把錢放在這個專區裡頭呢當然是我想這是一個稅的話我在很多地方也說過稅當然是一個很好的武器或是很好的工具但是我們也看到如果說一定要有稅才能做的話我們"},{"start":4094.835,"end":4115.962,"text":"在台灣要爭取稅是比較那金管會有沒有試著跟就是說財政部還是說高雄市政府去做這個稅的一個溝通這個絕對是我們溝通的重點優惠的一個溝通有沒有當然有有 還是行不通當然各個部會在做這些考慮的時候他可以不可以讓一些出來你如果不讓的話事實上我們怎麼就是說"},{"start":4117.162,"end":4138.934,"text":"追求這個更多的一個投資者願意把錢換到這一個專區裡頭來你一定要有一個誘因這個誘因應該是我們大家要努力的是我想委員講得非常非常的我非常的贊成就第一個當然比如說我們也看世界上很多的金融中心他並沒有稅他也做得很好但我們也不能說沒有稅我們就不做"},{"start":4139.774,"end":4145.963,"text":"像比如說紐約倫敦他們也沒有稅但是他一樣是很多的他有他的條件他有他的條件嘛因為他整個投資的一個集中就在那個地方嘛那我們現在要新創我們必須要有更多的一個誘因嘛"},{"start":4155.615,"end":4183.321,"text":"那譬如說你的高資產客戶要跟那個國際有一個競爭力你就是要把這一個他的一個行政程序你要把它縮短變成是一戶式的你不能讓他在這個整個開戶整個就是說在使用上他就變非常的一個冗長那顯然稅務的優惠是沒有啦對 稅務優惠我們是比較相對的比較缺乏但是比如說法制穩定彈性兼領我們可以來努力對不對這部分"},{"start":4184.861,"end":4209.346,"text":"特別是在金融監理的我覺得法制跟監理的彈性這個對你來講都不是問題都是稅務的優惠這一段我想我們應該要再更努力所以我也期待有所突破因為這部分確實假設我們要長遠能夠具有持續性的進展跟優勢我想稅如果有稅的幫忙當然是一個非常正面的因素"},{"start":4210.126,"end":4228.781,"text":"那我想就是再有一個議題啦跨境的ETF這一個在東京掛牌那在這個第三季的一個掛牌到目前為止這個我們看起來成績是不怎麼樣那不怎麼樣那個我不知道主委你有沒有去看到這一個問題"},{"start":4230.08,"end":4253.448,"text":"我想今天剛好交一首董事長這邊他可以跟委員快速的報告一下現在的狀況董事長是不是快速的報告一下跟委員報告那事實上我們掛了兩隻在東政所這兩隻跨進了ETF在一個月 九月到現在一個月內一隻成長它的AUM它的那個Found Size成長五倍另外一隻成長三倍也就在一個月內"},{"start":4254.268,"end":4272.658,"text":"他真的成長一個五倍跟一個三倍所以而且東政所也為了我們這兩支呢他也做了很多網路的宣傳包括連結或這樣所以他們短時間內東政所也對我們非常的支持我想台灣的科技台灣的科技是一個很亮眼的一個指標那問題就是說"},{"start":4275.059,"end":4300.121,"text":"這一個管理上是不是在資產管理上是不是有辦法透明這個是應該是吸引投資者非常重要的一個原因那我是要那個拜託大家就是說我們希望就是這個跨境跨境那個ETF我們尤其是在日本這個我們應該是因為在地緣上那個我們可以做得更好那給大家加油是 這也是我們努力的方向"},{"start":4300.401,"end":4304.063,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請林思明召委好 謝謝主席我們請諸位我們請彭諸位"},{"start":4321.311,"end":4330.523,"text":"委員好主委早早主委有關詐騙的案件我查了一下114年第二季的被害人共計有54996人"},{"start":4333.427,"end":4342.336,"text":"比較第一季增加了7898人其中又以投資詐欺佔5.14%最多被害人達到19327人佔我們總被害人的35.14%這個是最多"},{"start":4352.466,"end":4363.931,"text":"那刑事局在10月2號對外表示在房土詐騙以虛擬貨幣進行洗錢的部分刑事局已查扣102億的虛擬貨幣並以針對非法的幣商進行專案的查緝以阻斷詐團利用虛擬貨幣來躲避追查那請問金管會"},{"start":4375.478,"end":4396.826,"text":"金管會在9月22號也公告首波完成洗錢房子登記的虛擬資產業者的名單共有9家業者得繼續經營這個業務但有18家就職業者未登記不得再提供虛擬資產的服務所以要請問主委這18家不得再提供虛擬資產服務"},{"start":4398.246,"end":4416.605,"text":"的這些業者儘管會有無持續追蹤就是在9月22號你公告以後是否他真的已經停止提供相關的服務有沒有是各位報告其實這一點我們跟檢調都有保持密切的聯繫只要是他今天沒有"},{"start":4417.446,"end":4431.198,"text":"在9月30號以前沒有取得登記制的如果實際從事都是違法我們檢察局的同仁也會去現場去看也會把相關的情資呢提供給檢調去做事後的查緝是"},{"start":4432.691,"end":4453.371,"text":"主委我看你今天的一個報告你說你表示說你有這個對外同步公告已不得再提供虛擬資產服務的就職業者名單來提供民眾查詢所以我想請問除了公告以外我們還採取哪些措施主要是這個名單的部分因為其實民眾他可能看到"},{"start":4454.392,"end":4472.146,"text":"有一家業者他就想去比如說金管黑看是不是我名單上的名單過去曾經發生過歷史名單可能在網路他收到了他就以為還有所以我們要及時的更新就告訴我們其實就像我們在金管黑的網站就會告訴你什麼是合格的業者的名單"},{"start":4473.447,"end":4500.089,"text":"那這個是我們要隨時來做更新所以我知道我說你除了公告這些業者的名單這些不能再繼續提供服務的業者的名單以外你還會採取哪些措施現在主要是就我的所知就我們會請檢察局跟通知我們的檢警調去對這個部分進行主動的去查核所以如果查到的話依照我們相關的現在的法規有哪些法則"},{"start":4500.71,"end":4509.369,"text":"現在的罰則最終可以處兩年徒刑有刑責就對了登記制以後開始有刑責就只有刑責而已"},{"start":4511.212,"end":4539.089,"text":"那我也看到了刑事局他也有促請說金管會要協助加強監管禁止現金交易所以金管會所採取的防治措施有哪些對於這些防堵現金交易的措施有採取哪些措施我們剛開始在所謂聲明制的時候有很多業者設了很多所謂的那個那個對比機就是那個ATM就是BTM"},{"start":4540.209,"end":4565.931,"text":"這部分因為很多都用現金交易現金交易就沒辦法去追蹤他的KYC不知道是誰來做這個交易所以我們發現這個問題以後我們就要求工會我們就直接就去函這所有東西就不能用現金交易我想這個對很多在從事這些比較灰色或是這些的立刻就產生嚇阻作用很多的我們的業者就覺得這部分他可能沒辦法做他就自己就收掉了我想有幾家是這樣子"},{"start":4566.912,"end":4587.657,"text":"那這樣也有助於就是說我們對於這個所謂的詐騙的一些的阻止當然我們也不會妨礙因為你只要透過銀行的戶頭去匯款買賣就可以那個主委我想您剛才提到您有採取一些措施是那我想請教說你除了採取這些措施以外你是否有充分掌握這些違法業者的名單"},{"start":4590.179,"end":4595.244,"text":"你有查到有哪些名單有沒有查到其實我們檢察局我們都有例行性對他們做檢查其實也可以請我們局長跟委員簡單報告一下"},{"start":4602.496,"end":4621.942,"text":"跟委員報告就是說在我們在今年對12家的這個虛擬資產業者部分的檢查部分我們發現到一些業者有可能涉及到一些不法現金的交易的部分我們已經把相關的資料已經提供名單都有掌握了對 我們已經提供給檢警調去繼續再做後續的一些證判都有充分的掌握了是是是OK 好 謝謝"},{"start":4623.482,"end":4651.019,"text":"那主委我想再請教就是說我們剛才一直關心的就是那個虛擬資產服務法這個專法在今年6月27號你已經報行政院了那個草案包含穩定幣的發行及管理相關的監管的一些要求但是目前還躺在行政院監管會員先宣示說今年底就要施行就要公布施行但是我們現在看起來時間就有點趕了"},{"start":4653.36,"end":4671.355,"text":"而且目前我看到有銀行業者凱基銀行他宣布將與全球最大的美元穩定幣發行商Tether合作推動虛擬貨幣的應用資產服務所以法規如果不能及時上路恐怕對投資人的保障會有很大的不足"},{"start":4672.296,"end":4695.49,"text":"所以目前我們看到除了民眾黨還有我們有幾位委員都有提案所以請問主委那櫃會送交行政院的版本到底何時會送到立法院其實跟委員報告其實金管會是沒辦法宣誓說我們什麼時候要那要透過行政院跨部會的審查由政委來召集跨部會審查我們已經開過會我們會加速來請這個"},{"start":4701.334,"end":4726.763,"text":"那行政院審查所以在這個會期內沒有辦法順利這個我們站在經管委員會立場我們是希望能夠盡快的來審查因為這部法律通過以後呢還有大概七部的執法那我們現在都在準備中這七部的執法通過才有辦法上路所以這部分呢還需要一點時間剛剛委員講說會不會有空窗或是怎麼樣因為剛剛跟委員也質詢到了就是說我們現在採用的登記制"},{"start":4727.643,"end":4742.484,"text":"登記制某種程度來講雖然他的整個的效率跟他的範圍沒有像我們現在虛擬服務專法那麼的完備但是現在已經可以透過這個登記制做一定程度的對這個機構跟他行為做控管是"},{"start":4743.705,"end":4765.338,"text":"主委我想有專法對我們投資人的保障會比較夠所以我還是希望說主委你去跟行政院一定要多做溝通會 會我們會盡快的去把這部法律送到我們立法院來做審查讓他三讀通過另外就是說穩定幣的發行金管會是否也已經跟央行討論規劃未來穩定幣發行的幣別種類以及它應用幅的範圍"},{"start":4769.74,"end":4791.671,"text":"其實我們在當時在立這個草案還有包括這個有關一些這個數位現金這樣的部分我們一直都有跟央行保持聯繫而且再來未來我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢這部分也是穩定幣是油金管會跟央行共管未來是要共同管理這一塊市場所以有跟央行做規劃討論"},{"start":4794.517,"end":4820.414,"text":"另外主委我們這個有關亞洲資產管理中心台灣州將在這個後天10月15號就要在高雄來開幕活動的重點聚焦在亞資的政策上要打造台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心要推出一系列的論壇座談博覽會目前有33家的金融業來參與包含了"},{"start":4825.398,"end":4837.107,"text":"17家銀行 12家證券期貨投資投信投顧公司 4家保險公司證取局也表示截至目前已經有2.4萬人次的報名法人機構參與家屬為34家"},{"start":4840.589,"end":4867.906,"text":"專從國外來台參與的外資則逾140人次分別來自日本 韓國 新加坡 香港 美國印尼 印度 越南 柬埔寨等地主委 您也指出說台灣擁有豐沛的民間資金以及國際競爭力的產業是這些都是我們己身國際邁向未來的重要基礎將打造我們台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心這也是我們行政院經發會的重要計畫之一"},{"start":4869.887,"end":4882.758,"text":"此次將藉由台灣州向全球投資人展示台灣的經濟實力行政院在明年度施政報告中也提到高雄設立資產管理專區開放38項業務還要透過ETF永續債券TISA帳戶來帶動發展"},{"start":4888.863,"end":4901.88,"text":"另外在今晚會針對我國總體經濟分析台灣發展亞洲資產管理中心的條件的簡報資料中也指出國內資金很充沛銀行存款有54.9兆超額儲蓄連續4年超過3兆受險資產超過34兆"},{"start":4906.986,"end":4933.349,"text":"但是我國如果要和香港 新加坡競爭的話現階段缺乏國際市場的關心的稅負優惠外匯自由化 語言的環境優勢這些都是目前我們無法避免的結構性劣勢所以請問主委根據這些財經媒體的報導政府強調國際合作跨境ETF的掛牌但實際資金流入規模有限"},{"start":4934.19,"end":4951.281,"text":"雖然政府在高雄設立專區推動TISA專戶但根本結構性的問題要如何克服能不能在這邊向國人投資人表示我們具備什麼樣的優勢及能力跟香港新加坡來競爭亞洲資產管理中心的地位"},{"start":4951.801,"end":4978.813,"text":"是 我想剛委員提到的問題其實都已經非常完整就是要發展一個金融中心或資產管理中心他要很多很多的條件當然所有條件我們都有那當然最好但是我們應該是這樣想我們沒有的我們趕快慢慢應該要加速來爭取或來建構我們有的地方我們要好好的利用所以我們就先開始起步來做這件事情當然比如說如果稅跟外匯的話那主要是針對"},{"start":4980.134,"end":4997.601,"text":"外部的資金但對本國的資金怎麼讓他留下來可能是我們現階段最重要的一個工作所以這部分我們會是循序漸進來推動主委我想最後一個問題在30秒我們在政策設計上到底是要偏向流財還是引資我們先以流財"},{"start":4999.843,"end":5019.961,"text":"為主軸但是引資絕對是我們要做這兩個是雙向但是我們一定要先做到能夠留財你談引資才是更現實更具體所以我們這兩個是同時做但是我們現在主要是先針對留住台灣的財富為主要現階段的工作OK好主委加油謝謝謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們林昭偉接下來我們請顏寬恆委員"},{"start":5034.711,"end":5057.602,"text":"主席各位同仁大家早主席有請金管會彭主委好我們請彭主委委員好主委好主委金管會最近引起很多的民怨民眾在網路上表示說金管會的打詐根本沒有考慮到實務的部分那這個從六月份"},{"start":5059.363,"end":5070.267,"text":"就有17家的銀行這個停止這個不希望這個警示帳戶的增加這個政策所以呢就停止受理民眾使用自然能憑證開立這個帳戶那"},{"start":5075.59,"end":5094.751,"text":"現在就是因為金管會打詐措施沒有考慮到食物的部分所以民眾可能因為要領薪水所以會有一個新轉戶那當薪水進到帳戶他們把薪水轉到自己的其他帳戶像是信用卡一些帶腳的一些水電或這樣的一個過程就被銀行認為說他們在洗錢"},{"start":5097.273,"end":5112.8,"text":"帳戶就被封鎖那民眾打電話去銀行解釋那說也沒用那希望銀行能夠恢復但是銀行端的恢復都說這是AI偵測的結果那他們也沒辦法解鎖要民眾等三到六個月"},{"start":5113.94,"end":5129.726,"text":"三天都不能等那個柴米油鹽薑醋茶小孩子的學費還有一些每天鎖睡的這些支付那麼多那還要三個月所以民眾的錢都卡在那邊不能動造成大家這麼大的困擾"},{"start":5130.782,"end":5146.466,"text":"有的上班族學生他們為了要解鎖還特地請假到銀行端這邊去解釋但是這樣子也銀行這邊也沒辦法幫他解鎖所以這個問題是非常嚴重我記得我們上個會期就有討論過這個事情上個會期就是說"},{"start":5150.187,"end":5174.83,"text":"金管會已經表示說針對這個風險控管的措施一定要兼顧這個比例原則所以我們剛剛提到就是因為不符合比例原則所以這個全能考量這個服務安全性不希望看到銀行去風險性的處理結果現在各大銀行都沒有聽進去就是因為怕被沒有做好沒有按照金管會的指示所以這個被裁罰所以"},{"start":5177.232,"end":5198.967,"text":"錯殺100沒關係反正就是這麼做反而真正受害的都是我們這些民眾你們要封鎖的這些這些可能涉及洗錢的涉及詐騙的這些都沒有找到反而讓他們逍遙法外所以這個亂象我想要請教主委你要怎麼樣去來處理這個事情是謝謝委員給我這個機會來向國人說明我想剛剛講的第一個委員剛剛講的帳戶可以分成兩類一個是由"},{"start":5207.532,"end":5226.377,"text":"檢調機關涉控的比如說警示帳戶跟衍生帳戶這部分是金融機構只是被動的協助他們做這個我們沒辦法去解控那是要跟那個檢警這邊去做申訴另外一個是我們去年通過打詐專法以後特別賦予金融機構可以自我管控的部分"},{"start":5226.917,"end":5251.334,"text":"我想我也應該關心的是這個自我管控自我管控是因為我們去年打詐專法發表說我們的警示帳戶那都是有了詐騙的人以後已經被詐騙了那是一個比較被動事後的概念所以打詐專特別給說那金融機構如果你有這個能力有這個辦法判讀出已經有高度危險的帳戶你可以進行不是全部都是手控他可以部分或是一些"},{"start":5252.054,"end":5277.305,"text":"就是來做進一步的查證我想這不就是剛才委員提到民怨的部分我也跟委員報告就是警示賬戶在過去來講一直都是我們在詐騙上面一個非常重要的工具我們從110年初的時候我們大概只有六萬六千個警示賬戶但是我們經過我們在不斷的去努力的話以前每個月將近每個月都會增加將近三千個賬戶今年年初"},{"start":5278.445,"end":5296.612,"text":"已經來到了15萬這部分這也是為什麼我們我們這個詐團不斷的利用這些比如說閒置或是一些是帳戶呢這非常非常嚴重所以我們開始採取這個措施的時候我們到9月的時候呢這個開始首度出現了負成長比如我們從今年3月來看的話"},{"start":5297.512,"end":5322.237,"text":"我們過去大概只有10家銀行是下降現在來到25家警視帳戶下降代表說我們的管控是有效的但是剛剛講委員剛剛指正的我們會虛心的檢討就說請他們講說我們不會因為說有這樣的比如說這樣我們就停止這個我想柵團也很希望我們這麼做管控當然沒有錯但是我講的就是老民的部分你看看這張圖這個部分"},{"start":5325.051,"end":5335.777,"text":"民眾八月份就被鎖一次所以他到銀行去解鎖然後都會標明轉帳的用途結果在轉帳小朋友的學費的時候又被鎖了"},{"start":5336.519,"end":5358.294,"text":"又被鎖了那當初在這個台灣Pay在推出的時候主打就是小額交易免手續費所以很多民眾都來使用那現在繳學費也被鎖用LinePay買東西也被鎖所以只要AI覺得有問題的都會被鎖那既然是AI覺得有問題的可能都是這一些"},{"start":5359.255,"end":5386.434,"text":"不是實際上有問題的AI覺得有問題結果沒問題那怎麼辦是不是AI有問題所以你們的政策系統有沒有修正有沒有做一些什麼樣的一個檢討其實跟委員報告我們並沒有要求公司怎麼做是我們只是要求他好好管控你的警示帳戶各家公司他們自己的政策自己的方法來做像剛才講說有些公司他可能在AI的這個標準的鎖控上面不對我們立刻就請他來做一個"},{"start":5387.975,"end":5389.92,"text":"了解跟改善所以我們現在是希望他們"},{"start":5391.147,"end":5418.861,"text":"只要有這個狀況一定要非常的去精準去調教你這個東西而且我們要求這個每家都要設24小時的專線而且你必須要把這個東西把這個物控的這些經驗分享給其他同業所以我想這個問題會改善但是我們主柵的決心不變但是方法要好好來打柵主柵當然這個主要目標不能變但是就是說我們剛剛提到就你要提高精準度"},{"start":5421.422,"end":5445.52,"text":"這個我們一定會來全力來努力你會造成我們民眾很多的不便像剛剛提到很多的這個上班族或者是學生他們的這個銀行就被鎖住了鎖住之後他每天要支出要使用的他不能用那不能用他到銀行端去解釋又不能獲得馬上的一個改善那這樣子的時候他就變成這不只是擾民這會變成說他是一個我們打詐"},{"start":5447.842,"end":5471.927,"text":"的一個受害者我們希望盡快的取得一個平衡但是確實我剛才講跟委員報告我們民眾的帳戶被炸團使用的比率持續在增加這件事情確實是我們在打炸中一個非常重要的重點我剛才講過我們做這些確實也看到已經達到成效但是方法的部分我們一定要好好來精進"},{"start":5473.147,"end":5487.663,"text":"這個提高精準度 落實比例原則不要讓銀行因為害怕金管會的裁罰所以把這些成本轉嫁到一般的民眾身上這是今天在這邊跟主委要求的主委這個多久能夠改善"},{"start":5488.203,"end":5503.108,"text":"一個月內能不能夠改善其實我們持續都在改善因為我們會一個要求像我們也要求銀行公會他們打詐委員會你們好好針對這件事情做經驗的分享因為只要有一個案子這樣出現我們希望這個不要再重複好"},{"start":5504.088,"end":5517.966,"text":"那就請主委盡力盡快的好不好這個月內那接著再請教主委金寶法納管13家這個融資主任公司在9月15號已經正式上路了嘛那預計一年半的時間要納管41家"},{"start":5519.648,"end":5534.768,"text":"但是融資公司專法這邊金管會態度還是保留沒有對 上次主委有特別跟我說明過啦那我知道但是即便因為已經納管部分的這些融資主任公司但是他們的態度"},{"start":5536.051,"end":5550.328,"text":"這個部分還是沒有辦法讓人家接受啦因為現行的金保法當中沒有規定這個融資業者的負責人業務人員吹售人員的資格就是因為這部分所以可能會有不當的人員用"},{"start":5551.169,"end":5573.334,"text":"不合手段的不合法的這種手段催債我最擔心的就是說詐騙的問題因為融資公司可能跟他跟詐騙集團詐團他只是一線之隔那尤其詐團先以假投資的方式來詐騙民眾榨乾他的存款之後再慫恿他這個抵押房地產去借款"},{"start":5573.894,"end":5595.843,"text":"那這種案件層出不窮每天都在發生每天都在發生所以我想民眾對於融資公司的專法是因應的期盼那現在雖然有金保法納管部分的融資公司但是金保法在納管之餘有沒有說持續計畫融資公司專法的推動這個主委我想你要我也很"},{"start":5596.983,"end":5614.356,"text":"很肯定你對於我們台灣金融產業的一個發展是非常的盡心盡力但是保護民眾資產更是一個非常重要的一個責任所以說尤其融資業法推動聯盟也希望你們每個月可以公布三項數據就是畫面上這三項"},{"start":5618.599,"end":5638.388,"text":"那這三項數據的要求金管會可不可以公布我想我們平益中心的董事長也在這邊我想其實這樣看起來的話我覺得應該我初步來看啦我覺得應該沒有問題好 可以啦好 謝謝啦那主委我再請教因為會去跟融資公司借款的人"},{"start":5638.988,"end":5658.208,"text":"基本上都是比較急著要用錢他可能就是信用小白還是信用不好有些是弱勢團體那融資公司涉及到的借款問題對於這些急著用錢的往往容易讓他們陷入一個高風險的一個借貸的圈借款的一個圈套"},{"start":5659.289,"end":5678.849,"text":"那這些借款人可能也沒有足夠的能力去分辨說融資公司是否真的符合法規規範也難以知道自己會不會被強迫接受不合理的條件所以在這樣子的一個詐騙的問題上面然後融資公司假設他跟詐騙集團之間的界線很模糊"},{"start":5679.889,"end":5697.123,"text":"在一線之隔有可能他們這些不法分子就會跟這個詐團來合作對於民眾產生了二次傷害所以我希望就是說金管會能夠加快推動我們農事公司專法的立法進程對於這些不法的行為進行徹底的清除可以嗎 主委"},{"start":5697.603,"end":5716.581,"text":"其實我想 上次也跟委員報告過我覺得我們現在該做的是如何加強融資消費者的保護而不是對融資業者的保護所以我想這部分我們會朝這個方向來努力好 謝謝主委 謝謝好 謝謝主委 謝謝嚴委員接下來有請李委員昆城召委質詢"},{"start":5723.815,"end":5725.781,"text":"謝謝主席我們請彭主委"},{"start":5731.75,"end":5757.886,"text":"主委好美國川普總統他在上週他認為說中國宣布的稀土管制措施成為談判的重要障礙所以要加徵百分之百的關稅大家也預期說今天的台股有可能會大跌但是到目前為止好像跌幅有收斂起來了請教一下主委這個是台股的基本面好"},{"start":5758.746,"end":5776.454,"text":"那還是說呢 這個國安基金有介入那還是說呢 這個台灣的民眾 股民啊對於川普的談話已經有免疫了報委 我還是一樣 我不對那個做預測但是我覺得這個事情剛剛早上也有其他委員也有詢問過 就是說"},{"start":5777.995,"end":5802.253,"text":"今天這個事件主要是來自於美國一個總統的政策的消息面的影響我想台灣從4月2號開始已經經歷過非常非常多類似的經驗而且大家也比較知道就是說股市最終還是回歸到基本面那我想這部分其實這也可以說明台灣的資本市場是"},{"start":5803.214,"end":5821.883,"text":"已經是相對是理性的那我們的投資人能夠消化各種的訊息做出判斷所以主委認為說這個我們的基本面是好的那我們的這個投資者這個是非常理性的就對了就是說至少這個資本市場是一個眾人意志的集合我想"},{"start":5822.583,"end":5845.544,"text":"就像我們也是剛剛才看到這個結果我想任何的預測都有它一些限制但是我們看到結果確實台灣的投資人表現出一個相對於理性其實我們看其他我們周邊也周邊國家的股市也大概也沒有像美國反映的那麼大那所以說今天這個結果股市這個結果對於主委來講比你預期的還要好"},{"start":5846.424,"end":5860.572,"text":"我沒有預期好與壞資本市場本來就會吸納各式各樣但是你對於這個我們的基本面跟我們投資者有信心就對了我覺得他就是一個大家能夠消化各種訊息做出這樣的判斷"},{"start":5861.673,"end":5885.194,"text":"那再請教一下主委因為就是股市一直漲上個禮拜是收在27000點其實算是創新高了那但是呢同時我們的這個傳統產業其實放無性價的也是越來越多了那就是說現在的股市榮景是集中在這個AI高科技產業像台積電和他的這個相關的產業那只集中在高科技的產業"},{"start":5886.275,"end":5900.036,"text":"但是我們的傳統產業老實來講在這一波關稅的影響之下放無薪價越來越多有人提出來說台灣經濟有非理性繁榮的前兆我想請問一下主委的看法"},{"start":5900.919,"end":5929.114,"text":"我想這個是大概我們很久以前有個很有名的經濟學家提出來的我想剛剛早上也有委員問說有沒有荷蘭病什麼之類的問題我想各位現在資訊非常的複雜非常的多元各種的說法都有就像我剛才提到有人會從一個過去歷史的經驗來看任何一個高點大家都會提到就是居安思惟一定是大家不過台灣的股市是集中在高科技IC產業"},{"start":5930.435,"end":5944.53,"text":"造成這個股市創新高這個是目前上趨勢看起來是這樣子相對來講傳統產業的確表現沒有像高科技產業這麼的表現這麼好嘛對不對我想說主要是我們現在其實我也初步去看一下"},{"start":5945.431,"end":5972.637,"text":"這樣的現象不是只有台灣的資本市場股市是這樣因為現在越來越多的投資人是機構投資人有很多是比如說我們是ETF的市場他本質上他在選股上面就比較不會是一個所謂的就是按照這個消息面作為我想我的問題在於說就是說我們的高科技產業跟傳統產業有個落差當然那因為高科技產業他大概他的這一個就業人口大概是10%左右但是90%都是屬於中小微傳統產業"},{"start":5974.217,"end":5994.253,"text":"那就變成是說這樣子貧富差距會不會越大那如果未來說高科技產業有受到什麼影響的時候那是不是會造成這個有學者他所示警的就是說非理性繁榮的這個現象最理想的狀況當然是我們各行各業都很強大我想這是個理想的社會但是退而求其次我們至少還有一個強大或至少還有"},{"start":5995.194,"end":6014.746,"text":"就好幾個強大也是一次個選項我們所要努力的就是說我們希望其他的產業能夠取而代之比如說能夠不是取而代之能夠變成所謂的護國群山就像我們在做那個比如說亞洲資產關係中心這個計畫的時候我們就希望說未來金融業能夠成為另外一個非常重要的產業來平衡這件事情我想這是我們"},{"start":6016.415,"end":6045.47,"text":"來做一個努力我們當然希望每個產業都能橫頻能夠因應各種的變化那再請教一下主委這個虛擬資產服務法那現在已經收到行政院了那有沒有列為我們的優先法案現在因為它還沒有出行政院的審查那據我所知應該是行政院審查完畢才會進入到我們的法案的排列那有沒有列為行政院的優先法案我們現在在全力推動中那有機會在本會期送來立法院嗎"},{"start":6046.01,"end":6071.991,"text":"其實我也期待能夠盡快的審議因為事後他還要經過那個執法的訂定那目前的這個審議的這一個行政院有在審議當中了嗎那有沒有一些比較困難點的地方其實據我所知同仁講說因為接下來我們的審查的政委現在換成另外新的政委我們也跟他做過簡報我想各個部會都提出他的一些的那個意見我們在整合中應該很快會"},{"start":6073.152,"end":6083.625,"text":"會再進行實施審查會影響到進度嗎我想不會因為我們很快的就跟他做做整個法制的簡報而且行政院"},{"start":6084.756,"end":6104.689,"text":"裡面也很多專家也不斷的已經在運作中我是希望說這個會期還是能夠送到立法院來我們也期待我們送出就希望能夠趕快完成立法請教一下主委你們9月份有公布了9家業者完成洗錢房子登記也獲得許可另外有18家不合格"},{"start":6105.429,"end":6127.124,"text":"現在就是說不合格就不能再經營虛擬資產的服務否則面臨兩年以下的刑責但是也有人認為說我們現在只管國內的但是有七成消費者是使用國際平台七成的國際平台沒有被納管因為我們現在洗錢防治法我們其實是有規定就是說"},{"start":6130.086,"end":6143.739,"text":"國外的幣商要透過國內落地或做分公司或是公設登記加上洗房登記跟能量登錄才能在國內落地否則就處以刑責那現在有關於這個國外的這個虛擬資產的這些管理公司我們有納管嗎有準備納管嗎要怎麼管"},{"start":6146.201,"end":6168.479,"text":"當然其實就我們在管理的架構裡面其實我們並沒有區分境外跟境內因為他比如他在台灣落地他就要在台灣設立設立相關的機構我想這部分我們是這樣但是現在剛剛委員提到應該是已經在國外運作這些那國人就可以透過網路世界他自己所以他們不用落地不是 他這樣"},{"start":6169.58,"end":6192.76,"text":"因為他沒有在台灣取得這樣一個許可他就沒辦法在台灣比如說做廣告他也沒辦法直接在台灣他有取得台灣的許可了嗎現在的話我們現在所謂的剛剛講幾個我們有國外來申請但是我們這是核准的部分我記得是不是有一家是有外資的我們這9家不是都是本土的嗎"},{"start":6195.773,"end":6217.293,"text":"現在這個九家 八家原來是洗房生民的嘛那現在一家是後來新的這個九家都是本土的對啊 沒有國外的嘛那我的意思是說現在國外的是可以做虛擬資產的服務但是他沒有納管應該這樣 他在境內的話要如果說要經過我們許可才可以在境內做這樣一個服務那他有經過許可嗎我剛才講這個是在"},{"start":6219.859,"end":6242.021,"text":"國界上像比如說我們如果說我們如果在國外旅遊在國外去買一個這東西其實這樣我們就沒辦法或是我自己上網對 那我的意思是說那就是等於我們只納管國內的幣商然後國外的幣商我們沒辦法管理就對了這個要透過國際上面的一些合作再來他比如說在這邊的話我們的金融機構就沒辦法跟他做往來那會不會變成一個打仗的一個破口"},{"start":6242.761,"end":6258.478,"text":"對 這也是全球我們想政府都遇到的那我們要怎麼處理呢那我剛跟委員報告這除了我們自己可以透過我們自己來努力另外還是要透過跨國的合作我是認為說有關於這個國外幣上的管理這部分我們現在好像是沒有"},{"start":6259.209,"end":6284.332,"text":"他可以未來假設這樣他也可以來台灣申請落地有啊現在有很多國外的幣商都有在台灣都有在做相關的服務啊其實如果委員仔細看的話那其實上他們來這邊是應該沒有同時實質的業務沒有實質的業務因為他只是可能在這邊台灣他是不能做的所以他們現在沒有任何的業務就對了不能做我們現在許可的這些業務"},{"start":6285.313,"end":6311.768,"text":"不能做現在許可的業務就對了其實委員可以想像一下就是比如他在海外比如說他的網站是沒有國界的對比如假設我們國人有能力他自己可以在海外有一個戶頭或是自己可以那我們未來對於這些國外的這些幣商有要做什麼樣的一些管理嗎我們當然也是希望說從一個整個綜合管理的概念裡面我們當然希望就像我們現在管理金融機構一樣我們也希望說國人至少在我們的"},{"start":6312.688,"end":6328.629,"text":"瑕疏範圍之內都能夠受到完整的保護嘛對啊 當然是我們的期待對啊 我的意思是說因為我們現在只有規定國內的畢業商現在就是有9家是核可的嘛對不對那其他18家不行嘛那對於國外畢業商我認為說這一塊好像"},{"start":6330.085,"end":6350.771,"text":"國外的第三套主要在台灣像全世界都一樣你要到我們台灣來登記有沒有一樣的道理那所以他們現在是有來登記對 我想我們的法規是open的並沒有說外國人不可以來那現在有多少家國外的B3會來做登記那現在的部分我們現在還在申請中的現在目前沒有目前沒有喔 目前沒有那為什麼不來"},{"start":6351.992,"end":6368.525,"text":"這要看他們就是不來登記就不能做相關的業務就對了他就是等於說必須要你必須要民眾自行去跨進去做這個服務透過網路那我的意思是說這一塊有可能會形成打炸的一個風險"},{"start":6369.646,"end":6389.55,"text":"對我們就會從這個角度因為我們會從我們可以管理到的金融機構的這些通路來做那確實我剛才講說因為我也再三強調在網路世界是沒有國界的對啊好沒關係啊這又變成一個一個循環了就是說我是關心打造這一塊啦好那反正再找時間再來請教好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝謝謝彭主委謝謝李昭偉"},{"start":6409.807,"end":6418.309,"text":"好 那我們接下來請鍾嘉斌委員好 那等一下下一位是黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員質詢完之後我們休息十分鐘請主席在場的委員先進列席了政府計劃事項官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請彭主任委員請彭主委委員好"},{"start":6437.356,"end":6452.328,"text":"主委我今天的重點當然標題很清楚但是呢還是不能免俗的從大家最關切的預測說你今天的報告有四大議題關於第二點之前也問到了回答進駐北思科的議題那我們看到您這邊的報告當中寫陷入僵局"},{"start":6452.868,"end":6474.655,"text":"而您關切的是根據保險法第146條之二條投資不動產要及時利用有收益為限在實現內進行開發而且要增加租金收益這樣看起來好像您是對於新售在目前有沒有及時利用有收益還有進行開發關注的是這個角度還是我們應該是關注整個輝達能夠在台灣進駐是個更大的題目"},{"start":6477.725,"end":6491.043,"text":"我想這個國人應該都很期盼外資對台灣特別是對我們未來重點產業我想這個立場應該是國人大概都應該是疑似的是的好那我們來看一下你認為輝達如果進入台灣更能夠將各種的"},{"start":6493.145,"end":6516.133,"text":"創新產業引來台灣那這些創新產業可以成為國際資金投資的標的所以是相互都有幫忙是不是這樣我想任何外部資本的投資對本地的經濟體只要這個方向是正確應該都是有助益的就是雞生蛋單生雞我們有標的讓他投資資金會進來資金進來的就有更多新生產業來爭取這些資金好"},{"start":6516.593,"end":6544.46,"text":"那麼所以輝達是不是相較之下他是一個火車頭他更能夠吸引國際的新創產業來進入台灣對我想這應該會有效果還有他跟國內的這些供應鏈能夠結合的更緊密好那這也是你不斷在就任之後不斷談亞資中心嘛對不對亞資中心要扮演這個角色嘛把資金帶進來然後呢也把新創產業帶進來讓台灣的資金有投資的對象也讓台灣的產業有資金來投資那請問亞資中心目前最準備最衝突的專區在哪裡"},{"start":6545.06,"end":6555.374,"text":"那當然現在我們只有公布一個高雄那個示範只有公布一個高雄亞灣對不對所以說那如果這樣講那麼揮打進駐是不是"},{"start":6556.519,"end":6576.294,"text":"高雄的雅灣是一個非常恰當的地點那我想是尊重他們的專業的考量因為他自己有自己的一些條件的考量我想最近在媒體也講了很多了是 好那麼所以我們認為輝達如果也來落腳雅灣也能夠充分運用到目前金管會在雅灣所配置的這樣環境能夠螺資人才也能夠吸引資金是這樣嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":6578.175,"end":6600.862,"text":"接下來我們來看一下我們現在關心的另外就是新一代清償能力制度ICS還有接軌IFRS7這裡面我們看到了最近大家關心的就是保險業因應近期國際的金融情勢有一個暫行措施對不對這個暫行措施關注的是資本氏族率和匯率的均價制度還有責任準備金的提"},{"start":6601.922,"end":6616.911,"text":"記題的基準調整嘛 對不對那目前的主要變動是怎麼樣有人說這個是一個比較屬於監理的寬容你認為是一個把標準放得比較低一點本來要求考80分現在考70分就好了呢還是你認為"},{"start":6617.931,"end":6635.046,"text":"這整個的制度配套它不是只是監理寬容還有更積極面的意義我想謝謝委員給我這個機會說明我想在4月2號到4月到5月的時候誰也說不清楚未來半年會發生什麼事情但是我們在明年的1月1號是已經確定要接軌兩個制度"},{"start":6636.187,"end":6656.447,"text":"那我們也講過了就是說如果這個中間有產生重大經濟波動的話我們過去所設算的標準都會受到影響所以我們才在那個情況之下制定一個暫行措施第一個我們會講RBC用軍價這個金管會馬上就可以決定但是另外還有一個財報財報是會計準則金管會是沒有辦法更動所以我們用"},{"start":6657.128,"end":6684.035,"text":"用了一種方法就是明年開帳的時候本來就會有一個有利影響數這部分我們在40%額度之內其實這個東西不是說我們額外的那其實他明年他本來就可以收回這一部分所以我們用這個方式來抵禦達到那個匯率均價的效果所以這兩個是一樣的只是說我們這也不是寬容我們是為了因應這樣一個突然的波動我想川普這件這個因素我想再假設你回溯到明年應該沒人會想到這樣"},{"start":6684.955,"end":6709.78,"text":"所以說我們只是希望說做一個監理官穩定市場是最重要的職責之一是監理穩定啦好那我們來看你說的沒有錯這個匯率的不穩定他會造成受險公司首先他過去的保單的資金成本較高比如9%那時候台灣的保單很高但是國內利率偏低所以他不得不到海外去投資他就要換匯可是換匯之後就匯率不穩定他就有避險的成本這個成本是付出去的"},{"start":6710.18,"end":6737.472,"text":"另外它就算有獲利也要到外匯準備金目前的一個模型是這樣沒錯吧對 好 那往下看但是你要知道壽險業資金回台投資不是只有帳面資金為了每年為了避險的外匯成本高達3851億那麼過去的波動也造成了一定的匯率損失那在目前你正式措置之下它的外匯價格變動準備金要提出了3726億我們可以這樣說每年目前在"},{"start":6738.769,"end":6755.145,"text":"避險的成本就要固定的成本就有三千八然後呢機會成本不能拿去用要必須放在我們的準備金的有三千七如果這些錢我能夠有效的把它純潔降低是不是來一字五雅之中心是不是更好其實跟委員報告一下其實如果我們針對"},{"start":6756.266,"end":6784.86,"text":"仔細去研究一下受險公司避險工具跟他經營模式就會看到就是說我們過去十年大概花了兩兆其實兩兆的部分其實並沒有解決我們現在匯率上的問題就代表說這個工具跟他們的真正的風險是不那麼匹配我們才會想說我們是不是好好來檢討一下有一套制度可以這樣來做的時候他可以不用去因為帳面上的波動去避險而把這個錢直接拿來增資所以我想這個反而是強化體質"},{"start":6785.72,"end":6809.374,"text":"支持靜環這樣做法但是我們看到就是這樣過去您聽到了我們的監理跟我們的財務管理如果說我們的資本市足率為了保護的利益我們要做風險管理因此要提立外匯準備有獲利或者說他又不能就不發股利但是就金控我們公司來講他帳面有獲利卻沒有現金他被迫要去舉債以滿足股東權益我們在這裡看到了"},{"start":6810.274,"end":6828.679,"text":"為了股東的財務治理發現金的鼓勵跟為了保護的風險管理產生一個權衡的問題那面對我這個具體的問題譬如說當我們要求對於保護的權益我們進行風險管理要求他有獲利不花鼓勵但是他為了對股東交代他怎麼辦他舉再來發鼓勵你覺得這樣可以嗎"},{"start":6834.81,"end":6857.515,"text":"這個委員對這問題研究非常深入啊這個就是凸顯了一個問題理論上來講你有獲利就應該發鼓勵沒有問題但是呢顯然我們這一套會計制度的評價很多的獲利是來自於未實現現在有明年可能就沒有這也是為什麼在發放現金的時候保險局會這麼保守就是帳面上雖然有獲利但是他認為這個東西很多是未實現假如明年匯率波動又沒有了所以"},{"start":6858.155,"end":6887.45,"text":"我們才會很認真來思考這套會計制度所呈現的損益是不是真正的損益所以才是我們的損益我們看到今後母公司他如果不發股利他擔心股東會對他失去信心股價會下跌這個時候又不利於他的機構的展望平等然後如果說他舉債去發現金股利他會造成淨負債比的上升利息保障倍數下降長期的ROE下降還有利率上揚他的資金成本上升削弱他長期的利差到底這樣的一個困境兩難的困境 主委"},{"start":6888.07,"end":6915.145,"text":"您目前用什麼方式來因應所以剛剛委員提到這麼複雜這麼精準的描述其實最重要一點就是就是我們現在衡量受險損益的這個方法顯然有了很大的跟實質的落差我剛才提到你的現金任何一個行業各位都知道我今年的損益多少我就發多少股利經過股東大會這樣就沒有問題了但是為什麼在一個受險業會產生這個問題還會產生奇怪明明獲利還要去舉債發現金"},{"start":6917.366,"end":6938.654,"text":"所以這個就是一個很癥結的問題我了解目前好像保發中心承擔這樣的重責大任那天我們三個都在場那我們再聽一下目前是不是保發中心在幫忙做這樣的一個試做一個試算是過去我們一直都是希望借重保發的一些的精算統計數據來幫我們做這些事好那我來想我打個比方啦您是老師嘛"},{"start":6939.694,"end":6961.721,"text":"結果如果老師校長告訴說你全班要歐帕至少讓他可以補考那你考卷怎麼出班上20個同學國英數理化大家的能力高低都不一樣你英文出高了對那個英文差的人不公平你數學出簡單的對數學厲害的人不公平所以除了考卷全班20個同學那麼多學生專長不同還要維持排名不變還要全員及格你覺得這個老師有辦法做得到嗎"},{"start":6963.032,"end":6976.52,"text":"當然很挑戰我們當老師就是每天都在想這些事情所以這也是你的目標當然我們希望達到公平接軌跟所謂的信賴保護接軌是 那麼我們先舉一個特別的案例母家"},{"start":6978.527,"end":7002.772,"text":"人壽他目前呢在招親希望人家去欣賞他但是這些標準在調控的當中會影響到他的代價額估的一個表現那你們怎麼辦所以我們想說盡快把遊戲規則確定以方便這個各方做評估所以這裡面有寫到接軌ICS我們跑到中心說RBC未達門檻的人可個案申請是這樣"},{"start":7004.401,"end":7028.109,"text":"對就是我們希望就是說這部分因為新制度是希望大家都能走下但是該兼顧到的公平比如說你以前的增資或是一些資本缺口還是不會因為接軌而消失那剛剛提到了那目前的要接軌這個新一代新廠能力的過渡措施那是由保發中心在十月中要發布那十月中就快到了"},{"start":7029.389,"end":7057.824,"text":"主委認為承擔這個重責大任的出題老師可以達到你的目標嗎排名不變然後大家都歐帕我想我們現在應該是現在都已經大概在做法制作業了應該是很快就如果說快的話就這一兩天會跟大家做那對於這樣的結果您保持怎麼樣的一個期待樂觀全盤歐帕排名不變還是有一家兩家要補考我想情況不一樣"},{"start":7059.184,"end":7087.06,"text":"容留明天我們再或是這兩天再跟大家做報告不過要跟大家做報告很好對基本上剛剛委員提到我們剛才講我們公平的接軌信賴保護的接軌這部分因為我們是用一個更嚴格的標準我們希望我們的受請業越來越好其實很多市場在解讀說其實這樣是不是比較放寬其實不是就是因為我們新的制度很嚴格所以我們要用一段時間讓我們的受請公司能夠調整的往上走就像爬階梯一樣"},{"start":7087.56,"end":7104.532,"text":"好 謝謝主委 您過去是學生心目中的好老師希望未來我們所推出來的制度也能讓這些各家的保險公司都認為您是個稱職的好主委 謝謝絕對會希望學生都變成好學生 優秀的學生 謝謝好 我們謝謝鍾委員接下來我們請黃珊珊委員好 謝謝主席 我想請彭主委我們請彭主委"},{"start":7120.215,"end":7120.236,"text":"喂好"},{"start":7120.874,"end":7149.8,"text":"是主委長我想今天大家都非常關心打炸從我們上任之後主委到這邊我們修了很多法那內政部警政署165的打炸儀表板到今年1到7月還是有高達14.4萬件那財損金額是700多億那今天看到報紙頭條又有一個醫生的太太被騙了3000多萬主委打炸的成果我想大家都非常努力但是打炸"},{"start":7151.02,"end":7165.986,"text":"當然不應該是在事後善後所以我們應該事前防範但是我們做了這麼多的宣導還有這麼多詐騙您的感想是什麼我想我們到底該再做些什麼"},{"start":7166.786,"end":7183.525,"text":"我想這個涉及到很多層面就以我們金管會的角度來看的話我們盡量要讓我們的這些金融帳戶不會變成是犯罪的工具再來就是我們要加強大家對金融投資的這些的素養"},{"start":7184.426,"end":7205.921,"text":"然後知道能夠試詐能夠辨識 觀念跟程序跟相關的事情大家都沒有概念所以就一步一步錯然後甚至拿房地產去抵押再借更多的錢去被騙好想諸位我們大家都很努力有打詐是政府的重中之重那金管會尤其是銀行其實已經非常努力那現在也積極用各種方法"},{"start":7206.661,"end":7231.649,"text":"那第一線的基層其實很辛苦除了民眾莫名其妙會生氣說你幹嘛要管我錢到哪裡去現在的問題就是我上次您來拜會的時候來說了其實很多的民眾現在碰到的是銀行真的管很寬管很多管到他們受到生活上很大的影響那網路上面有很多人已經講了我們這邊也接到很多陳情案其實有很多的案子非常的簡單但是現在的問題是"},{"start":7234.41,"end":7260.475,"text":"第一銀行現在非常積極所以用AI來做相關異常帳戶的控管第二他發現異常他就鎖帳戶這是我們新的法給他的授權但是有些銀行可能過於積極所以造成了很多民眾的困擾這邊舉兩個案子第一個是有一個民眾他的育兒今天去申請通過了但是他的帳戶被鎖了然後最重要的是沒人告訴他"},{"start":7261.975,"end":7279.025,"text":"有很多人他的賬戶是有扣款的比如說有扣停車費有扣甚至定期定額的投資款這些受到影響的人民眾的反應最嚴重的是被鎖不明原因也就算了連告知都沒有"},{"start":7279.825,"end":7292.148,"text":"所以當他碰到被吹討相關費用的時候他才知道他被鎖帳第二個是有很多民眾他可能是團購主所以他會接到很多的帳戶轉帳過來的幾百塊的錢可這樣的情況也會馬上被鎖住而這樣的狀況他要拿出跟團購者一個一個對話的記錄銀行才讓他解鎖"},{"start":7303.82,"end":7320.207,"text":"沒錯 打仗很重要所以主委我們有打仗有需要到搞不清楚狀況然後連告知都不做的嗎我想就是我們在這個是不是要事前告知或事後告知這件事情你鎖了我你總要告訴我吧"},{"start":7320.883,"end":7341.632,"text":"對就是說我們現在已經大概你事前告知怕被詐團利用沒關係但是鎖完之後要不要告訴當事人一下對這一點的話我們會有跟銀行這邊溝通至少要告知我覺得無論如何你鎖完之後至少要告知不要等到人家被扣款扣不到的時候才知道現在很嚴重的還有那種可能是交割款違約交割誰負責"},{"start":7344.71,"end":7367.218,"text":"据我所知现在他们会用简讯跟email通知客户是 第二个告知完之后其实最严重的是他要解锁的方法非常的复杂每个银行不一样你要拿出你他就把你当诈团你要拿出你跟团购的人像我们很多好朋友一起出去爬山我们可能会一起付一笔钱之后勾带去然后再汇款给"},{"start":7368.258,"end":7388.46,"text":"那個付錢的人像這種情況可能現在都會被認為他可能收取不明來源的銀行帳戶主委我不是說不要打詐而是打詐之後的第一動作要告知第二解鎖的方式要能夠讓民眾比較方便你知道銀行的客服有多難打嗎"},{"start":7389.437,"end":7392.78,"text":"我只要打個客服我大概都要等一二十分鐘你打過嗎每一個都給你用語音錫箱請你慢慢等候沒有十分鐘是接不起來的所以如果解凍這麼困難每一個都要去現場才能解凍你覺得這樣的打炸不是只是打炸啊它在擾民啊"},{"start":7407.23,"end":7430.723,"text":"對我想剛才委員還有幾位委員這樣的一個要求我們都虛心接受因為其實我們在做這個事我明白我們不是要接受我們希望你能找出方法金管會可以跟銀行公會討論出一個好你要動沒問題那是解凍的方法SOP讓民眾知道我要去哪裡投訴我要去哪裡找辦法"},{"start":7431.683,"end":7447.182,"text":"這個我們已經在持續在做了我想從第一次發生這個問題在接下來我想如果仔細觀察其實確實他們銀行也在優化中希望進度不要再發生這種莫名其妙然後連告知都沒有的事件當然這是我們的"},{"start":7448.684,"end":7471.147,"text":"那個要求也是我們的理想這邊跟委員報告一下就是說我在這邊還是要再再度的重申剛才講說我們對銀行做這件事我們還是絕對的支持但是方法我們也支持啊對對對就是說其實支持的情況下要讓銀行跟客戶之間還有客戶良善的客戶不要受到太多的打擾當然這是我們的"},{"start":7472.287,"end":7487.594,"text":"我們一定會朝這個方向來努力剛才講說委員剛才講比如說電話難打的問題告知的問題我們會馬上回去請他們趕快來做你打一次銀行客服你就知道多難打了我相信一般的民眾大概沒有等個十分鐘是接不起來的"},{"start":7488.354,"end":7503.623,"text":"當然銀行的客服人員現在我們現在是這種方法是讓客服更累啊他們已經很累了現在更累我希望這個部分是一件好事但是同樣的你這種AI的方式有些銀行宣稱他們有攔阻了50%的詐騙但是相對的有50%的人受到困擾"},{"start":7507.805,"end":7529.272,"text":"好嗎對 當然我想這個是我們努力的方向所以重點是我們要打詐的方法要稍微聰明一點讓正常的人能夠正常的生活而不是有的人連自己轉賬給自己也要被問你為什麼自己轉賬給自己因為你自己轉賬給自己你可能就是被拿出來當洗人這種把每個人都當詐團的方法並不好"},{"start":7532.173,"end":7559.239,"text":"我想這個案例很多我也常常自己轉給自己我的新轉賬戶我轉到我的股票賬戶就這麼簡單沒有為什麼我要自己轉給自己我覺得至少不要讓人家覺得你把每個人都當詐騙集團我想他們也不是想這麼做問話的方法可以更好一點設定的項目可以更精準一點這個是絕對的一定朝這個方向來走"},{"start":7559.819,"end":7574.69,"text":"另外一個問題就是金管會在去年說針對汽車強制險的保險費率也就是我上次質詢主委的台灣其實我們有蠻嚴重的金融歧視尤其是在汽車險男性女性不一樣然後我們只有針對"},{"start":7576.291,"end":7601.862,"text":"車主來做相關的處罰你這是出國險所以你下一三年都會很貴所以很多人就是用別人的名字來買車所以造成了車責跟開車的人都不一樣買車的人是太太開車的人是老公造了事的是兒子然後可是三個人的費率只有那個買車的太太被受到影響這是一個什麼樣的制度這很離譜啊"},{"start":7602.722,"end":7625.128,"text":"所以主委你們說今年要做處理處理的狀況如何現在的演繹到什麼程度好 謝謝我想這我們一直都在處理我請那個王局長來跟您做個簡單是 金融歧視應該消除尤其是我相信性別不該是歧視第二個我上次跟主委說過的我們希望在金融面前人人平等是"},{"start":7626.488,"end":7642.558,"text":"報告委員這個部分那個因為行政院那邊有列管考那我們這個從人因素的這部分是我需要時間表我們在今年底以前今年年底以前報告來跟行政院應該要根據駕駛人他的"},{"start":7643.338,"end":7671.493,"text":"行為來做差別費率的條件之前我們希望產險業者做UBI車險的部分要透過他的行為來判斷這件事情保險局還要不要繼續推這部分保險公司的設計上面我們其實都沒有限制他們如果有去他們可以推但是希望你們金管會應該有一個自己的立場我們這個是鼓勵的立場鼓勵的立場希望繼續推 諸葦蕾"},{"start":7674.434,"end":7703.486,"text":"我想我在學校使用者習慣很重要我在學校就非常支持就是應該是用預防性的保單就是應該是跟風險做連結是他用風險高的人他本來就應該付高保費而不是拿人頭在這邊轉來轉去另外一個是上一次我跟主委說其實台灣的保險金融科技已經非常進步而且現在區塊鏈技術也很成熟我們在台北市政府的時候110年就跟壽險工會合作跟醫院"},{"start":7704.446,"end":7726.495,"text":"在診斷證明用區塊鏈的方式來取得當事人同意保險公會可以直接去醫院拿到診斷證明不需要再要這些生病的人去奔波同樣的我上次也問過了如果這個技術是成熟的我們應該是不是在產險我們現在有919萬的汽車1000多萬輛的機車每一個都有強制險它發生事故的時候其實只有一個就是"},{"start":7734.378,"end":7753.346,"text":"警政單位的相關的報案記錄這個東西它其實也可以透過區塊鏈的方式達到安全只要當事人同意保險工會就直接可以取得所謂的相關的保險理賠這件事情我問過金管會金管會說還不知道民眾自己停工比較好但是5月5號你們回我5月27號金管會的記者會"},{"start":7757.188,"end":7786.36,"text":"金融科技產業聯盟的國泰金控說將要運用產險聯盟區塊鏈來串接醫療場所跟警政單位的資料將三方資料匯成單一系統平台主委金管會說還是當事人提供但是國泰金控說我們要串聯請問金管會要不要幫忙他們串聯內政部警政署所有相關車險如果可以的話又可以省掉很多馬路上面的動作"},{"start":7786.88,"end":7809.065,"text":"那當然啊 其實像比如受險的部分 他們有理賠一起通是 理賠一起通現在已經有四十幾家加入了所以這是做得到的 不是做不到只要當事人同意就可以取得現在問題就是你要不要去協助他們跟內政部警政單位做連結要不要讓他們能夠串接而已"},{"start":7811.584,"end":7827.723,"text":"因為李培己通我們自己跟醫院就可以做到醫院也是我們去拜託衛福部拜託相關的單位來促成的車子的碰撞或是事故可能攸關到一些責任"},{"start":7828.123,"end":7855.448,"text":"沒關係 我們只需要串接警政單位的報案紀錄而已對 就是這部分我們跟會跟內政部其他再溝通一下所以我需要你給我一個時間表我希望你是快 他們有一個不一樣的考量因為你們5月5號給我的回文說你們不處理啦沒有 我想說這個是一個進步的方向因為否則我們在路上看到很多的車子就為了一個小時會停在那邊嘛 是好不好 所以我只需要時間我希望在今年年底以前有一個具體的進度"},{"start":7856.508,"end":7863.953,"text":"好 那我想今年年底前我們會把溝通的結果跟委員報告好 謝謝我們謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來我們請李燕秀委員謝謝 請主委 可以了嗎好 我們請彭主委委員好"},{"start":7879.511,"end":7894.778,"text":"谢谢主委我关心了几个议题其实有几个其实之前几位我也已经关注过但是我最后还是有几个建议包括这个银行AI打炸变成扰民的议题我也整理了在TRE上面民众对于几个"},{"start":7896.119,"end":7901.067,"text":"銀行凍結帳戶的一些意見包括莫名其妙的被凍結影響到後續交割還有包括裡面只有165塊就被凍結還有包括兩年被凍結被鎖卡鎖了三次"},{"start":7911.443,"end":7939.523,"text":"所以包括之前委員的一些建議包括小額平凡的交易低餘額久未往來賬戶都會被銀行判定為高風險那當然我也關注到主委您在上個星期有表示幾個星期前有表示說其實銀行也是受害者過程當中您也給我們金融業者許多的支持那也強調說力挺銀行鎖卡後事後可以通知但是我還是有幾個具體的建議因為有一些銀行他的鎖卡的機制"},{"start":7940.564,"end":7959.086,"text":"那個流程非常的繁雜有些是莫名其妙就說有一些它有一定的標準流程也就是說每個銀行鎖卡凍結的那個程度方式不太一樣所以我有幾個建議直接建議給主委就是說未來對於AI的詐騙的系統我們必須要提高"},{"start":7959.867,"end":7975.278,"text":"準確度它那個一致性各銀行應該有一個標準不要有些銀行那個標準非常的高有一些非常的低這都不是我們願意見到的所以我覺得未來準確度的部分減少誤判我覺得要有一個SOP我希望今晚會可以輔導"},{"start":7976.738,"end":7990.947,"text":"第二凍結以後應該用多元的管道通知讓帳戶所有人可以很快速的得到這個資訊還有具體的原因到底是什麼並且可以通知他到底是因為太頻繁進出還是被盜還是什麼樣的原因然後解鎖的步驟我覺得更應該明確的讓帳戶所有人知道然後解鎖的時間有一些解鎖時間甚至到兩三個月才有辦法再打開帳戶再可以使用"},{"start":8006.156,"end":8016.002,"text":"所以對很多人來說我可能只有這麼一個賬戶我可能牽涉到我可能要支付一些我使用的賬目的問題所以未來解鎖時間是不是應該再調整一下什麼是一個合理的時間範圍我覺得應該做溝通接下來第四點就是強化政策的溝通未來如何讓民眾知道高風險的交易型態降低被凍結的機率"},{"start":8032.211,"end":8049.832,"text":"這是以上我對於這個議題四點的建議我希望在短時間之內一個月之內請主委更明確化能公告給所有的人知道這一點可以嗎謝謝委員剛剛這個一二三四我初步看起來都非常有建設性除了第四個我也有小小的顧慮以外"},{"start":8050.333,"end":8072.585,"text":"沒關係你就回去檢討然後三個禮拜一個月之內公告給所有的民眾知道那第二個我要請問一下有關上市櫃公司未來包括我們徵集會有一個標準的評鑑制度這是我長期所關注我想主委非常清楚我們評鑑的指標有四大區塊我想我就不用再做贅述主委可能比我還要了解"},{"start":8074.826,"end":8092.942,"text":"當然這個評鑑現在也都讓所有上市商會公司非常的重視因為包括櫃買公司治理的指數這些評鑑其實現在外界都非常的重視所以就114年度我們公司治理的指標當中第4.3項我們必須揭露當年永續發展ESG具體的推動計畫跟實施的成效"},{"start":8100.809,"end":8123.06,"text":"當然ESG裡面我們有分六大項未來可以去努力的方向包括海洋保育 原鄉的一些合作產學合作 庇護工廠跟高齡友善 多元語言 六大項指標那我是不是可以建議主委就是說未來我們可不可以增加一些評鑑的項目來更完善所謂的評鑑的一些內容"},{"start":8124.321,"end":8150.398,"text":"包括我長期在提的其實教育是百年的大忌我們目前全國在公立的高國中國小當中其實在九二一大地震之後我們全台灣在校舍的部分超過五十年其實有兩千兩百棟超過三十年有八千三百棟這些都已經達到應該改建或者很多都是海沙的校舍"},{"start":8151.278,"end":8172.459,"text":"或者是他耐震的指數沒有達到那個標準但是我們有礙於我們現在經費其實都沒有辦法改建所以我非常期望就是說未來我們ESG永續的部分至少在公立的高國中國小未來我們是不是有可能在4.3項以下的範例加上投入教育部所定義的"},{"start":8173.3,"end":8184.778,"text":"公立的高中以下的學校老舊校舍的整建作為未來評鑑的項目之一我們有沒有機會朝向這樣的指標來做努力"},{"start":8185.712,"end":8202.014,"text":"我想委員我們也討論過我是個人是支持這個方向而且我也去了解一下實務上我們過去也有好幾個案例都是做這件事情而且也列入到現在已經有案例已經完成的是"},{"start":8204.036,"end":8227.439,"text":"也列入在他們的報告也是列為加分事項主委 我想很多上市商會公司可能還不清楚原來這些也可以做因為我們現在大家都知道各縣市很多特別偏鄉它在經費上 財源上是不足的所以針對很多學校應該改建老舊校舍改建 海沙校舍的改建我們都希望加快腳步"},{"start":8228.3,"end":8256.292,"text":"那中央可以給藝術的財源也有限未來主要計畫這個主要計畫的項目到底可以協助多少都還不知道如果增加這永續的項目很清楚的名列在下面的話我相信很多上市商會公司他也很願意支持公部門校舍的改建所以這一塊我希望是很具體化的文字寫在寫的落實更清楚主委可不可以朝向這樣的方式去修正在4.3"},{"start":8258.533,"end":8284.123,"text":"我剛剛講過就是我支持這個方向因為主要是我覺得教育是一個在ESGS部分非常重要的區塊那我們講怎麼樣在現有的這個制度上面把這個類似這樣的範例可以把它放上去我想這部分我們朝這個方向來做只是他在檢討指標會一定的時程每年每年這樣我想朝向這個方向應該是可以的所以我們下次檢討是什麼時候因為"},{"start":8286.204,"end":8302.233,"text":"因為上次講完以後他們會已經開完了今年這樣但是這個已經是在過去已經有案例所以其實今年也是能夠做所以我覺得我們就加強讓他們大家都很清楚知道其實過去已經有上市櫃公司已經我至少看到兩個例子都已經有做這件事情"},{"start":8302.893,"end":8318.915,"text":"好那主委我最後一個議題就是有關於我們純網營的部分那有關於純網營我們現在開放的部分因為純網營他的他目前他虧損的狀況其實非常嚴重大概虧損累積到85億那相較於同期在今年度跟去年度"},{"start":8319.675,"end":8349.215,"text":"相比年損也增加了20亿左右那当然他营收目前只能靠利息跟手续费的收入但是我们观察在包括在日本他开放的项目其实经营非常的多我也很高兴看到主委对于未来政策的松绑那目前我们未来是就是说未来业务是可以先不要提计划事半的项目我们可以做一些解编那未来就是说主委您对于网营的开放的部分"},{"start":8349.815,"end":8364.327,"text":"除了你目前所宣示的之外未來在政策輔導上法規的鬆綁上您還有什麼樣的不同的做法我們可以期待我想就是當時我們開放這個網路金融包括我們即將開放的"},{"start":8365.208,"end":8379.969,"text":"那個數位保險公司都一樣我們是支持這個數位金融因為市場上需要多元化 多樣化而且是一些比較前瞻式的這樣經營模式但是我們要兼顧市場經營的公平性所以我上任以後我就跟銀行局提到就是說"},{"start":8381.911,"end":8403.411,"text":"這個三家網銀也是200億資本額的這個完整的銀行那我們盡量的就是讓他維持到他一定的創新性的前提那個承諾之下我們盡量的去做一些跟跟一般銀行的業務能夠盡量做對標那在四度的時候我們就做做一些放寬我想希望他們能夠能夠"},{"start":8406.461,"end":8411.688,"text":"保有他們的我們當初開放純網營的要求但是也希望他有個公平的競爭"},{"start":8413.072,"end":8433.317,"text":"公平的競爭然後彈性靈活度可以協助銀行也好網營業者也好其實我們過去已經對他的業務特別是他線下的業務我們已經做了很多很多的放寬他們也都我們也持續跟他們定期的跟工會做互動了解我們在法規面如何適時的去做調整我想是有必要的謝謝主委謝謝謝謝謝謝李委員謝謝彭主委我們現在休息十分鐘"},{"start":9064.342,"end":9066.505,"text":"現在宣布繼續開會接下來我們請王世堅委員王委員可以匆匆忙忙沒有關係"},{"start":9097.694,"end":9121.248,"text":"好 謝謝主席我就照你說的匆匆忙忙對你來講 有刃有餘我先喘口氣金管會不要這一個匆匆忙忙就好好 謝謝主席我請金管會彭主委好 我們請彭主委委員好 彭主委是"},{"start":9122.318,"end":9142.208,"text":"我們行政院卓院長施政報告開宗明義第一章就是寫要把我們台灣打造成為亞洲資產管理中心這非常的好但是我們有一個大的問題我記得在您一上任那時候我就去年六月我就跟你提"},{"start":9142.848,"end":9166.998,"text":"就是說我們國內保險業可運用資金的餘額高達35兆之多其中70%有25兆竟然是放在海外購買國外的債券或者基金諸位如果說我們呼籲外國把資產"},{"start":9168.874,"end":9171.998,"text":"交給我們台灣管理結果我們台灣自己70%"},{"start":9175.319,"end":9198.997,"text":"的資金是用在國外買債券基金那我們對人家怎麼說服我們自己70%給別人管然後要別人說你的資產給我們台灣管這不是很怪嗎那我們要說服哪些國家說服非洲嗎 肯亞嗎這是很奇怪的事其次"},{"start":9200.84,"end":9220.376,"text":"這購買海外的債券跟基金當時我們就說到有兩大風險一個戰爭一個匯率嘛結果這兩大就在我們講的去年之後沒幾個月都發生了戰爭俄國大家知道我們國內有三大受險公司五大受險公司"},{"start":9221.256,"end":9245.334,"text":"買了俄國1380億的債券後來陸續到期到期的部分俄國的答覆很簡單等我戰爭打完了再來算這筆錢戰爭的因素跑出來了匯率在今年的5月我們對美金的匯率那個台幣大幅度的"},{"start":9246.585,"end":9255.784,"text":"升值的結果光單月將近兩千億兩千億的損失耶天啊所以"},{"start":9258.446,"end":9283.746,"text":"戰爭跟匯率我們都碰到了所以當時我就說我們海外資金上限70%可以到我們的受險資金有70%的上限可以到海外去這個部分我們應該調降我們應該適度的趕快導引這些保險資金讓它回到我們台灣那結果當時"},{"start":9287.537,"end":9315.491,"text":"貴會的答覆是說有啦找了這些保險公司談這些保險公司說兩個原因第一個原因說我們台灣利率太低第二個台灣市場太小他們意思是說他們也是情不得已出去但是主委你不曉得記不記得當時我就說這兩個原因都不成理由啦第一個你說我們台灣利率低我承認我們台灣利率是低但是"},{"start":9316.604,"end":9330.109,"text":"你這些受險公司也是以我們台灣這麼低的利率下去當期望值做成產品賣給我們國內的保險的大眾所以利率低你不能講"},{"start":9332.5,"end":9360.167,"text":"你期望值也低 你的產品也低不是嗎 第二個他們說我們台灣的市場太小所以當時主委我就拜託貴會後來我也拜託財政部就是說我請貴會跟財政部都要趕快輔導我們國內這些需要建設的部會比方說內政部 交通部 衛福部衛福部他們有長照啊"},{"start":9361.567,"end":9384.543,"text":"交通部有各項的交通建設 鐵路 公路 高速公路各地方的捷運 這都是需要資金的啊我們引導他們進來 我們設交通債券 交通公債 內政我們有社會住宅等等嘛 那不管設宅"},{"start":9386.614,"end":9414.113,"text":"長照或者未來開通的捷運自償性都很高也付得起這些利息所以我說要趕快做所以我今天要問你的問題就是說到底這一年來我們輔導了有哪一些部會有沒有去準備好去成立哪一些建設公債建設基金有還是沒有第二點這個讓保險資金去海外"},{"start":9415.134,"end":9428.523,"text":"的這個比例是不是要從70%下降下調因為在國外看起來就不可思議耶中國啊我們對岸中國跟我們競爭的中國只有2%我們70%韓國8.3%美國12%只有日本高一點日本高一點也不到我們1 3日本21.6天啊"},{"start":9441.658,"end":9465.089,"text":"只有我們台灣70%這麼高所以這兩個問題我想請教主委有做了嗎謝謝委員給我這個機會來回答這個問題其實我們也很希望我們受險業長期要降低海外的投資的比重因為我們現在受險面臨到一個叫做避別的不匹配"},{"start":9466.189,"end":9493.603,"text":"因為他的負債跟他資產不一致所以會面臨到匯率跟利率的風險這是一個但是因為他已經長期投在海外不可能短期就把它匯回來台灣有剛剛委員提到很重要台灣沒有這麼多的工具像比如說他們投的最重要的投固定收益現在大概已經將近20兆的這樣一個金額在台灣其實我們整年所有的公債跟債券市場沒辦法很快吸納所以我們想法就至少你新錢"},{"start":9494.764,"end":9522.634,"text":"每年他會收到的薪錢大概是兩兆左右的錢我們盡量找工具剛剛委員提到我們做了什麼比如說我們也希望說能夠有一個比如說第一個我們鬆綁法規讓我們的受請公司的這個資金本來交給國外投資能夠交給自己的投信來投資這是一個再來就是我們的兆元投資計畫裡面我們也提出很多很多方案我們甚至請交易所櫃買成立一個資本服務團去協助這些公司力單位去證券化債券化"},{"start":9524.054,"end":9545.405,"text":"然後還有像很多地方這種發綠債那我們希望說盡量把這個這個政府剛剛委員提到比如說假設我們也曾經嘗試過把高速公路的收費能不能把它做個證券化也都在跟各個部會在做協商因為這個部分還要花點時間我主委我很感謝貴會你們有做這些努力啦那成果呢 到現在成果怎麼樣"},{"start":9546.105,"end":9562.03,"text":"其實我們現在陸陸續續有一些啦但是還沒辦法吸納我們的這麼大的受險資金因為很多部會他的心態他就是變於形式嘛反正要建設的錢很簡單預算編了就有啊"},{"start":9566.26,"end":9593.491,"text":"大家便於形式嘛就從大筆一揮從預算下去編但是我們不應該只是單向的從預算不是這樣嗎我們應該適度的因為需要有時間嘛慢慢的就像你剛剛講不能一下子回來他也不可能一下子回來但是我們每年導引3% 5%這對我們導引預注這些資金回來建設我們自己台灣這才是正確的嘛"},{"start":9594.471,"end":9622.788,"text":"不是嗎所以沒有具體的結果就對了現在等於說因為受險人資金整體是非常龐大國內要找尋這些涉及到公件的案例確實是沒有那麼容易過去蔡英文總統的時候我看她過去那八年他們也是到後來才警覺這個事情嚴重他們有去說服交通部有成立了七檔交通建設的"},{"start":9624.806,"end":9651.166,"text":"資金啦 債券雖然那個金額不算大都大概數十億之多但是聊勝於無這是一個開始嘛他們有七檔八年做了七檔所以我希望在你這麼專業認真之下你帶領的團隊能夠趕快跟我們這些相關部會去做協調這是我們努力的方向那其次就是關於這個詐騙的部分這個"},{"start":9654.008,"end":9662.796,"text":"我們這些逃逸的外勞還有逃逸失聯甚至工作渠道的外勞那他們就把這個戶頭就賣給這些詐騙集團那本來這本來數字不大從2022年的521案"},{"start":9673.626,"end":9702.663,"text":"逐年增加9211862一直到今年6月統計已經超過2000戶2054戶啦那當然我們也祭出重罰說這個可以把他罰100萬以下這個最高會判3年以下可是可是主委光是重罰甚至關他都沒用他人都出境啦人都出境那難道我們要怎樣"},{"start":9703.243,"end":9726.008,"text":"要去引渡他來我們台灣嗎這都是不可能的事情所以我認為這些事情知識體大我也詢問了我們相關金管會的同仁們他們是說有找勞動部下去談但是我覺得這個部分可能談得還不夠徹底我覺得當然勞動部他似乎不積極"},{"start":9727.328,"end":9755.674,"text":"不積極所以我希望跟勞動部談你們跟他們談清楚就是說在這件事情上面開戶所謂的外勞他們的自己財產管理的這一部分的權利人權這個應該擺在一邊為什麼因為不管他是期限已經到了要回國或者他都已經失聯了簡單的方式就把這個戶頭切斷就好嘛"},{"start":9756.334,"end":9782.787,"text":"切斷就好人家失聯逃逸的他失聯逃逸他還不敢用這個戶頭啊請他的雇主也一定現金給他嘛不是嗎所以這樣子的外勞他剛好順便把這個戶頭賣掉就算了所以這樣子的情況下不要在那邊一直考量說外勞也有他的人權他有他的權利去管理他的資金"},{"start":9783.927,"end":9810.838,"text":"這個一切都在他失聯之後甚至期滿回國以後就要簡單明瞭把它斷線這個也可以載入到勞動部載入到跟外勞引進的合約裡面就可以寫這麼清楚好不好我希望你們跟勞動部因為我知道現在在阻撓的都勞動部啊不積極的都勞動部你跟勞動部講清楚"},{"start":9813.256,"end":9836.457,"text":"說這個事情知識體大不要再用那些有的沒有的藉口就是不要把簡單的事情複雜化好不好謝謝我們會朝著努力我們也看到我們是從去年我們就開始有對接移民署這些的外籍的那個警示帳戶的比例從高峰已經開始往下走那我們會來持續跟其他部會一起來努力"},{"start":9837.257,"end":9857.171,"text":"我剛看到的數字我念的數字都是往上爬啦當然有往下的數字當然是好啦八月已經下降下來了因為我們管控措施也慢慢看到一些成效我們會努力謝謝王委員 謝謝主委接下來我們請葛如君委員"},{"start":9878.001,"end":9881.277,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請主委請彭主委"},{"start":9887.42,"end":9908.167,"text":"這次非常感謝業務報告裡面有一個非常明確的加速金融科技創新與發展的項目那我們也一直都非常關注金管會長期在推動現實世界資產RWA代幣化的相關的一些細節那我們也看到裡面有說有10家的金融機構還有相關的這個機構有參與"},{"start":9909.628,"end":9929.883,"text":"以國內外的債券代幣化為標的進行所謂的Proof of Concept這個POC的測試那9月25號有完成期末實證的報告那這個相信內部可能有一些機密我們也不好所許但是想請教一下主委這個報告的結果怎麼樣有沒有符合原先的預期"},{"start":9931.522,"end":9948.881,"text":"是 各位報告我想這個裡面的兩次一個期中報告一跟期末報告都全程參與我都全程的去聽他們怎麼做那期中報告的時候呢先提出了他大概未來怎麼運作期末報告呢他已經大概就是模擬事情大概"},{"start":9949.662,"end":9961.886,"text":"在技術上應該都沒有問題那接下來就是我們是要討論它的落地的商模跟現行制度的比較還有就是說我們未來由誰來參與這件事情還有就是說我們有兩個一個是"},{"start":9964.747,"end":9987.695,"text":"基金還有一個債券的部分看哪個比較有可能剛好在那個過程剛好WF也出了報告他們未來的預估很多全球對這個看法可能債券是現階段比較有可能來做的但我們現在因為做完報告我們在接下來就跟委員報告就是我們接下來會看剛剛講後續的話我們怎麼樣做特別是未來也會搭配我們現在虛擬資產"},{"start":9989.996,"end":10004.967,"text":"這個專法裡面怎麼結合因為這兩是互為像比如未來的穩定幣也會跟RW有密切的關係是相輔相成謝謝主委不過我想您剛剛有提到是以債券為主不過我要那是那個報告提到的"},{"start":10005.347,"end":10023.916,"text":"是我要跟您分享其實從監管會的角度既然要做亞洲資產中心同時又要向創新靠齊也跟您報告跟您分享美國納茲達克在今年的9月初有向監管機構去提出申請不只要做債券的代幣化也要做股票的代幣化"},{"start":10024.756,"end":10044.398,"text":"所以我想請教一下有沒有機會去討論一下這一塊的可能性因為我們剛剛 您剛剛有提到專法那我們的VEX的專法的第三條則是把有價證券的部分排除那有價證券有沒有可能用RWA的方式來做那這個部分可不可以請主委做個回應"},{"start":10045.186,"end":10066.166,"text":"其實我們在那個虛擬資產專訪裡面也有大概所謂的那個實驗條例的適用我想這部分我們也保留了這樣的一個這個窗口那確實虛擬資產到底是不是有價證券要看因為我們當時很多討論就是你原來是什麼接下來就是什麼原來不是什麼不會因為這樣變成什麼我想大概是一個我們有諮詢學者專家來看"},{"start":10069.409,"end":10094.592,"text":"那確實未來比如說這個RWA以後呢我們也看到國際上非常非常多嘗試比如像基金像Blade Rock基金就做很成功他結合他穩定幣這個parking的時候他可以做到因為他不能收利息嘛所以RWA大家都在全球都在思考他的應用面但我們也是會仔細看看各個世界怎麼運用他我們來決定我們接下來怎麼走"},{"start":10094.997,"end":10115.44,"text":"好謝謝主委我想股票代幣化或證券的代幣化有很多的優點包括可能交易的時間可以放長還有降低投資門檻結算效率增加等等那我們也希望真的要向全世界去看齊不要我們到最後台灣反而變成是末班車我們現在應該要去思考如何後發先至"},{"start":10116.241,"end":10143.704,"text":"那至於您剛剛有提到的現在實體世界怎麼樣虛擬世界又怎麼樣我想最重要的重點應該還在於機會我想風險跟機會的均衡還是希望主委一起做個考慮那剛剛您也提到這個穩定幣那我想穩定幣其實是現在大家非常非常關注的那不過您有提到這個貨幣型的穩定幣為主那這個優先開放受到高度監理的金融機構來試行"},{"start":10145.285,"end":10162.186,"text":"那我想請教一下其實現在看起來像美國的Genius法案我想你一定也有研究那美國是受聯邦或州政府認可即可那我想請教當VASP的專法通過了以後既然這些VASP的業者都已經獲得金管會的許可"},{"start":10163.948,"end":10183.27,"text":"那未來主委有沒有考慮評估一下讓未來這些合規的VASP業者也能夠有機會有穩定幣的發行權雖然不能同步但有沒有一個時程或可以考量的空間所以我想委員應該也有非常清楚我們的那個專法草案裡面的條文並沒有限定"},{"start":10184.031,"end":10205.562,"text":"只有金融機構我們也是參考GENIUS或跟MECA的這個規定但是我們想說因為台灣我們是採用謹慎友好不冒進但不落後的這樣的一個態度所以我們大概剛開始我在很多地方也有發表個人的看法我們會先從比較高度監管的那個金融業但我們並沒有排除因為法規本來就沒有做這個限制"},{"start":10205.967,"end":10226.113,"text":"太好了我想如果能夠有更多類別的RWA做代幣化同時呢又有新台幣的穩定幣我想對於整個未來的金融的交易會有非常大新的彈性的空間甚至不管是我們的量體提升也好甚至是我們現在的月配息有沒有變成日配息甚至秒配息"},{"start":10227.153,"end":10247.692,"text":"透過Sablecoin的這個可程式化的機制都是有很大的考量空間那我想最後幾個問題 主委可不可以透露一下因為我們看到6月27號金管會將VASP的草案抱怨以後現在已經過了三個月有沒有機會討論一下目前行政院討論的狀況為什麼這麼久還沒有辦法送到立法院有沒有什麼考量的一個邏輯在裡面"},{"start":10249.113,"end":10267.829,"text":"我想簡單跟委員報告不過這應該據我所知就是例行性的議程因為通常我們討論以後各部會就會提出他的建議交給我們回去做研議跟調整我們再重新送回去那中間還有一個變數我剛剛也跟委員報告過就是因為我們現在原來主審的政委因為更換所以我們重新跟他做簡報我想這個東西應該會按照時程來進行"},{"start":10270.336,"end":10288.252,"text":"好 我們也相信這個樂觀以對最後雖然主席已經站起來不好意思我稍微交流一下這個跟資安有關的議題那因為關鍵基礎設施如果有資安風險在ATM或相關的設備上是由經管會這裡負責的那我們目前有看到有一些相關的專業的評估報告"},{"start":10289.713,"end":10304.93,"text":"有提到發現了非常多新的漏洞這些漏洞是有可能影響到我們ATM的網路甚至有可能在緊急或極端狀況的時候這些ATM如果被遠端的封鎖或者被駭入的話很可能會影響到民眾的金融安全"},{"start":10305.63,"end":10324.238,"text":"這個部分希望主委能不能跟團隊評估一下未來有機會再針對我們資安金融的部分來做個比較更完整的一個檢查跟檢討可以嗎所以我會請支付處來做這個進一步的研究好謝謝主委謝謝葛委員接下來我們請黃國昌委員"},{"start":10341.465,"end":10368.557,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩有請主委我們請捧主委委員好主委好10月10號國慶致詞的時候賴總統在演講當中啊又提到亞洲資產管理中心因為這個名詞上次在質詢的時候有請教過主委所以我聽到了以後我就"},{"start":10371.809,"end":10398.06,"text":"我不曉得該說驚訝還是驚喜顯然是賴總統一個非常重要的政見那這個名詞其實大家都不陌生第一次出現有關於政府要打造台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心大概回溯到2001年的時候阿扁總統其實就有撥話這樣子的願景那到"},{"start":10399.471,"end":10420.992,"text":"蔡總統的時候他說要成為一個亞洲企業資金調度級高階資產管理中心名稱稍微長一點大概意思差不多到賴總統的時候就是亞洲資產管理中心我上次就請教就是說劃定目標"},{"start":10422.335,"end":10443.925,"text":"我覺得沒有錯啦有方向是個好事但從2001年口號聽到現在大家可能比較關心的事情是它是繼續淪為口號還是有什麼具體上面的實踐所以我大概去了解了一下你們亞洲資產管理中心到底在做了什麼事情"},{"start":10444.929,"end":10461.396,"text":"那我看了這張圖我有一點驚訝這個是你們之前應該有開記者會嘛找了很多金融業者亞洲資產管理中心高雄專區大概橫跨鹽埕、乾金、新興、林亞跟前鎮區這樣一個地理區位的畫設"},{"start":10463.695,"end":10489.912,"text":"讓台灣成為亞洲資產管理中心它有什麼實際的意義我有點看不太懂請教一下主委是 我想跟委員報告這只是我們16項計畫其中一個叫地方資產管理專區我們整個亞洲資產管理中心涵蓋各個行業這個主要的是希望針對我們的銀行業來設計結合了證券投資這只是其中計畫之一這不是亞洲資產管理中心的全部"},{"start":10491.512,"end":10516.926,"text":"對 我同意這應該不會是亞洲資產管理中心的全部現在我的問題是你在這邊把五個行政區劃進來成為高雄專區成為亞洲資產管理專區也好成為台灣金融業要進一步向上提升的動力也好其中的一個計畫 對到底有什麼實質的意義我到目前為止看不懂好 跟委員我這樣講好了在你現在劃的高雄專區裡面有幾家銀行"},{"start":10520.227,"end":10541.243,"text":"幾家保險 幾家投信十七家銀行 四家保險 八家投信股你是不是知道在台北市的信義區有幾家銀行這我倒沒有統計幾家保險 幾家投信保險公司 那母公司的話其實我這樣子說好了啦 就是說在地理上面"},{"start":10542.096,"end":10560.559,"text":"去畫一個這樣子的區域出來當然我希望對於高雄的地方經濟的發展有幫忙啦但是把它直接跟亞洲資產管理中心其中的一個目標在高雄設這樣子的專區它具體的實效性在哪裡我真的必須要老實說我完全看不懂"},{"start":10561.36,"end":10576.435,"text":"我完全看不到我可以跟委員解釋一分鐘嗎可以 請第一個就是因為我們在做資產管理假設你針對高資產客戶的時候你必須要有很多新辦的業務是所以我們在高雄專區很重要就是我們一個大型的試辦計畫在那邊"},{"start":10577.816,"end":10603.003,"text":"所以我們必須要先有個區域的部分做示範當然原來高雄市政府提供兩棟大樓給他們選擇但是基於他們實務的考量我們後來改成劃定跟指定就先以這個區域裡面你來指定重點是那個人是動的我們整個怎麼在一個有限的範圍之內來申請核准以後我這樣說好了啦以市場管理中心來講跟金融業的本質一樣第一個是信任"},{"start":10604.062,"end":10616.019,"text":"第二個是專業第三個能力全部都是看你服務的品質而這些服務都是沒有型的這些服務都是沒有型的今天我要不要信任某一家銀行"},{"start":10617.116,"end":10637.204,"text":"或者是某一個金融機構對於所謂高端的客戶也好對於特定的族群也好他所推出來的資產管理服務他們所提供的商品提供服務或是兩者之間的結合其實我看了就是三家事情第一個這個金融機構值不值得信任第二個它的績效到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":10638.7,"end":10652.078,"text":"第三個他的專業跟他的能力所以我才會說在地理的區劃上面畫了一個五個行政區到底是什麼意思我有點看不懂今天我在台北市的信義區我在信義區可以看到很多銀行的金融總部"},{"start":10652.952,"end":10674.973,"text":"我到底要進入F銀行我還是要進入B銀行其實我不會看哪一棟外觀比較漂亮其實我看的是它的reputation跟它實際上面執行的績效時間的關係我們直接來看績效你們在今天的書面報告裡面賴總統在演說的時候似乎也有提到說增加2.83兆我們的母數是多少"},{"start":10675.646,"end":10688.788,"text":"我們現在在29、30兆去年的時候29、30兆嗎我們去年推出的時候大概是29、30兆左右你知不知道現在新加坡的資產管理的規模多少大概5兆到6兆美元"},{"start":10691.096,"end":10715.467,"text":"我們的單位是新台幣他們的單位是美元所以如果新加坡換算成所謂的新台幣當作單位這樣你才有比較的基準要不然如果以台灣來講跟新加坡來講看起來數字差不多 幣別差很多所以我們是希望現在是一兆我現在給你看"},{"start":10716.967,"end":10727.117,"text":"這個是新加坡花五年超越香港資產管理的規模4兆但是單位是美元換算成台幣大概120兆120兆"},{"start":10730.495,"end":10750.715,"text":"以台灣的狀況來講台灣過去我們的國營佔的規模跟比重比較重那相關的法規也比較緊美國商會 歐洲商會其實歷年的報告我相信主委都有看這個方向的邁進我不反對但是我們實際上面我覺得怎麼按部就班的下去執行"},{"start":10753.317,"end":10776.823,"text":"比較重要是以新加坡來講的話他整整花了五年超越香港資產管理的規模他們做了很多事情其實人家怎麼成功的我們可以借鏡我們通通都有在演當然我不是說說什麼亞洲資產管理中心掌他人之氣滅自己威風台灣怎麼跟人家比等等等等這都不是我要講的話我要我希望說的話是2001年"},{"start":10780.663,"end":10797.733,"text":"我們的政府第一次打出了這個口號現在是2025年我們一樣在喊這個口號那現實上面過去五年新加坡怎麼建籍履籍的人家怎麼做的超越了香港人家現在的規模是120兆"},{"start":10799.36,"end":10824.722,"text":"台灣未來五年要怎麼做能夠達到什麼樣子的規模我相信這個才是全體國人期待看到的東西主委你應該懂我的意思吧理解我覺得說對的事情我們就會去做這部分我想今天能夠做多少我們一定全力來做因為台灣未來發展的方向金融業不應該是只有這樣我希望透過這個計畫全面的提升"},{"start":10826.005,"end":10839.952,"text":"我希望你可以成功啦但具體的成效如何我們會隨著時間的進展一步一步來看今天因為時間的關係我後面其他的國際評比的部分我下一次再來請教主委好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝黃委員接下來我們請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":10857.592,"end":10860.734,"text":"謝謝主席 楊群發言 邀請主委我們請彭主委保險法第146條 知識的規定保險業者在海外的投資上額是45%"},{"start":10875.154,"end":10892.034,"text":"但是我們看到一個數據讓我們很有探討的空間也就是在九月份的時候你函給本席辦公室說我國受險金額總額約二十二兆那二十二兆元因為國內的標的不夠"},{"start":10894.497,"end":10911.131,"text":"不足所以長期被迫它要向海外的市場造成資金的一個外流那等於也是讓保護它曝險跟外匯的一個損失那我拿到了一個統計數字你看這個表格"},{"start":10913.252,"end":10924.316,"text":"從2017年就是1761億一直到去年2024年是3029億今年上半年是多少呢是5220億的這個虧損那我們國發會有一個兆元的一個投資"},{"start":10932.794,"end":10953.636,"text":"為什麼我們金管會會說我們沒有國內的標的物可以去做投資所以在這邊本席要請教金管會你已經明確的來說明國內無可投資標的所以在這樣情況之下你一直讓我們的資金外流而且一直連連的虧損"},{"start":10957.062,"end":10978.532,"text":"那我們金管會要有什麼樣的作為呢是 跟委員回答兩件事那個匯兌成本它對應會有匯兌的損益這是只是成本的部分它工具的成本當然對 這個不是它真正的最後做匯兌的那個數字再來第二個 其實應該講我們現在國內有很多投資機會"},{"start":10979.813,"end":10993.027,"text":"但是呢保險業最重要購買的標的是固定收益的特別是債券公司債台灣的債券市場確實在規模上是相對於其他對嘛所以你買美債你買美債你的虧損就一直匯兌下來你的匯損就這麼多啊"},{"start":10997.82,"end":11011.392,"text":"對 這匯水有時候是會像比如今年的上半年是匯收益這個是因為匯率是會波動不是這樣所以它是確實面對到這個波動的風險但是不見得都是不好的這是一個"},{"start":11012.333,"end":11038.226,"text":"上下波動的風險那這樣波動的風險我們怎麼應對呢對 所以說這也是剛剛委員有提到說委員你就想一下保險公司投資在海外通常是可能幾十年一二十年都不會匯回但是我們的匯率是全部都要算波動所以它的損益很多都是叫未實現的損益在帳戶上波動這個波動很大所以保險公司要花很多的避險成本去避帳戶上面的波動實際上它不是現金流的"},{"start":11039.406,"end":11051.233,"text":"匯對匯出通常我們避險是要做什麼就是我有現金流進流出因為會有匯損所以我要做工具這個受險一個特別的地方所以我們也是希望說未來怎麼想辦法把這個把它扭轉過來"},{"start":11052.813,"end":11071.439,"text":"那你這個想辦法要什麼時候告訴我們有什麼辦法其實我們很快就會提出我們的方法什麼時候提出方法我想年底以前一定會跟委員報告好 年底以前提出方法因為我們也非常的希望你既然承認說國內沒有標的義務那你是不是可以去研議是不是可以適度的開放"},{"start":11072.986,"end":11095.977,"text":"這個都是在你的研擬範圍內現在我們也在盡量的就看看透過跨部會剛剛那個委員有提到怎麼樣台灣其實需要很多的建設需要很多的建設國發會就有一個兆元基金他在做他在做其實這我們有參與我們也在尋找更多的標的我們也下降了保險業投資國內標的的一些的障礙擴大開放國內的標的物"},{"start":11098.342,"end":11125.173,"text":"以及保障我們受險人員的一個安全度這個安全是沒有問題這個風險是由保險官來承擔不是由客戶來承擔所以一定要好好的你年底就會告訴我們你的方法要怎麼做怎麼樣去配合我們的資本制度來做所謂的他的資產負債年底的時候告訴社會大眾我會把這個方案跟大家做說明好 謝謝ETF市場表面很熱絡但是實際上操作"},{"start":11126.413,"end":11151.578,"text":"實際上操作我們看到在整個結構性的一個風險當中跟他的不當行為我們看到很多投薪他為了搶市佔率所以他訂定高一點的高募集的這個責任額度那迫使基層的音樂園他必須甚至他招不到他自己自掏腰包用盡各種方式那在基金上這個上市之後立即倒貨"},{"start":11154.095,"end":11181.106,"text":"讓這個規模立即的會縮水價格撲發那不僅會讓投資人他不信任而且會凸顯到整個市場的監管的一個缺口影響到投資人的一個權益所以本席要在這邊請教本席要在這邊請教我們看到10月2號的時候呢那5月份有多檔的ETF不到一個禮拜就七成七成的籌碼"},{"start":11182.867,"end":11209.639,"text":"就倒出不到一個禮拜我們要看到81%的ETF的當天上市當天就破發在這樣的一個情況之下不僅影響到整個投資人的一個信任剛剛本席特別強調監管的缺口那所以請教主委你要怎麼樣重建市場的一個信任你要怎麼樣去遏止虛擬募集的一個行為請教主委"},{"start":11210.559,"end":11233.213,"text":"你的KPI以及你的制定到底要怎麼做對 我想這個前一陣子確實引發很多的關注後來全經理也有到我們這邊來針對員工的權益跟我們做一些討論我們也採取一些行動我想我們可以提個書面報告給委員這個非常重要我們不希望讓國人不信任不希望讓基層的這一些人員"},{"start":11235.54,"end":11253.673,"text":"他被壓榨到這種程度81%當天破發這個是監管會您的責任必須要將你的KPI以及你的監管方式必須要說明導正市場秩序維護投資人權益跟勞工的這些的那個我們都會來"},{"start":11254.614,"end":11279.71,"text":"最後一個議題我公開給我們金管會金管會我看到我們全球金融版的一個重組我也看到我們有八家的公股銀行六家提出退出退出在哪裡在澳洲緬甸大陸歐洲在這樣子的一個情況之下到底是什麼原因我們自己公股銀行八家有六家提出退出那這樣子等於我們"},{"start":11280.851,"end":11296.645,"text":"整個的整體性的國家級的一個評估那麼是不是會有股牌效應讓我們的公股銀行集體的退出削弱我們整個在金融外交國際布局的一個量能呢請教其實我剛才"},{"start":11297.626,"end":11317.352,"text":"稍早有委員問到這個問題我說其實我們的國營不是只有關股關股他基於自己營運的目的去做整併那是他們經營的問題我們關注的是這樣有沒有不符合公司治理還有整個的他們的整個的策略他來跟我們報告但是我們要看的是台灣還有很多其他的銀行"},{"start":11318.272,"end":11343.596,"text":"當然啊 但是你基本是我們自己的功苦功苦就是如此了我們深怕的是我們被國際金融邊緣化其實不會啦我們委員可以看到我們國營在今年在海外的表現的占比呢一直越來越重要這也代表我們國營啊所以這一點我們也特別因為國營總是是一個指標嘛那您必須要看為什麼他們會退出什麼樣的原因會不會影響到你也順便資料給本席好 謝謝"},{"start":11347.957,"end":11352.819,"text":"謝謝楊瓊瑛委員接下來我們請林楚瑛委員謝謝主席 主席辛苦了 邀請金管會彭主委我們請彭主委"},{"start":11372.591,"end":11395.945,"text":"委員好主委午安這個因為我現在已經是外委會的委員所以比較後面才能質詢你所以前面幾個我原本準備的題目前面的委員大概都已經垂詢了所以我也不太想浪費您的時間那麼就是有關於這個詐騙然後因為這個警示賬戶的問題您今天也都回答得非常多了只是我覺得有沒有一個作業上面的SOP真的可以簡化這個"},{"start":11396.866,"end":11423.101,"text":"整個的流程讓民眾的困擾可以降低所以我想要問的就是像這樣的所謂疑似不法我們現在判斷標準有沒有什麼方式真的可以更明確讓第一線的銀行的不論是國營或是民營他們在製作這樣的所謂因為一方面又要幫打詐把關那麼一方面真的如果出現狀況像我前幾天還看到那個新聞真的就是第一線的銀行行員說老太太你要匯3600塊喔不是他要匯3600萬"},{"start":11426.323,"end":11441.433,"text":"打死就是非要會出去不可那像這種狀況底下減少避免爭議甚至於擾民的狀況到底這樣的標準可不可以更明確而怎麼樣制定的更明確是不是有一個可以遵守的守則其實我們現在已經請那個"},{"start":11441.773,"end":11465.31,"text":"因為剛剛委員提到我們才剛剛成立我們知道這個打詐整合的重要性我們請銀行公會趕快成立一個已經成立的這個打詐委員會我們就希望大家比如剛剛委員提到共通性的東西大家先互相照會這樣明確但是我們不會對外公佈這東西不能對外公佈因為只要我們SOP這樣子就會變成一個樣態可以讓所謂犯罪集團或詐騙集團來模仿"},{"start":11466.791,"end":11494.588,"text":"對就是說我們怎麼做這件事情我們可以透過訊息的這個傳遞但是不對外說明因為為什麼那這樣的東西可以多快能夠達到這樣的準則上面可以更明確然後如果真的發生了這樣的狀態比如說我坦白說我們在社群媒體上是很容易就被民眾tag我們點名我們然後要我們來處理但是我們不認為這個是一個正確的做法它應該要有另外一個"},{"start":11495.949,"end":11517.008,"text":"合理的管道可以來做申訴那有沒有可能建立這樣的機制其實他本來就是我們現在要求銀行啊他一定要提供那個專線還有這些專人來服務這些比如因為被所控產生衍生的爭議啦剛剛有文提到電話不好打我們會再去了解那至於說剛剛那個標準的部分那是持續滾動的狀態隨時會有新的我們會透過那個這個"},{"start":11520.871,"end":11538.992,"text":"所以已經成立而且這個樣態上面的模組是可以怎麼樣叫疑似然後怎麼樣是可以解開的這個會滾動的每天或者是多久會做一次處理這個因為我們委員會的部分他有一定是但是他這個運作就在持續在運作中"},{"start":11539.372,"end":11561.222,"text":"好 那麼剛剛提到的就是電話不好打我自己本人也有這樣的經驗我真的打進去所以我建議像現在都有所謂的AI甚至於有其他的透過線上的方式可以處理的部分是不是也可以建議銀行或是銀行公會這裡也可以讓業者們可以加入我覺得這也是不失為一個解套的方法"},{"start":11561.762,"end":11580.505,"text":"對 提高效率 提高服務的品質我們一定會來要求但是這邊也稍微提一下就是很多民眾可能不理解他被鎖控可能有兩個原因一個是因為他是被檢調所鎖的警示帳戶這個銀行是沒辦法幫你解的是 就是在調查單位那裡對 那個是要"},{"start":11581.266,"end":11599.958,"text":"要回到源頭去那個解很多民眾可能可能以為說我跟銀行講這是為受害者那通販銀行也無能為力倒是剛剛委員講的應該是指他自行鎖控根據打詐專法第八條自行鎖控部分不夠精準所導致的這些問題他們就要好好來處理這件問題"},{"start":11600.984,"end":11614.349,"text":"好 了解所以這個部分其實是全民最關心的另外一個當然我關心的就是我們剛剛前面也有很多委員在談到就是剩下不到三個月的時間那麼到底現在的"},{"start":11615.643,"end":11622.77,"text":"ICS給予的所謂的監理寬容的這個部分我其實比較想要問的是剩下的時間這麼的短而它又是一個整體浮動的狀況的時候每一個受險業者他們自己本身的狀況不一樣當每一個人都要達到新規的100%的時候剛剛主委也講了可能就是明天後天或者是本週這個規定將出來"},{"start":11641.707,"end":11654.413,"text":"可是就算是明天後天也是將近十月底了那麼距離接下來的到明年的時間也不到兩個月那麼如何讓所有的人都可以齊步走而且能夠在這個規定上面符合每一家壽險業者的狀態跟樣態"},{"start":11660.256,"end":11676.396,"text":"那這個部分寶芭中心正在思考當中也在精密計算當中但是如何讓大家都能夠使用其實我認為非常的困難就像你做一件衣服要符合今天在場的所有的人這個其實困難度是非常高的"},{"start":11678.618,"end":11693.435,"text":"這個委員非常清楚我們為了這個專案我親自主持會議應該超過50場從我上任開始不斷每週每週這樣開會我的意思是說剛才各位可能會覺得只剩一兩個月但是各位知道我們接軌1月1號真正那個報表會出來"},{"start":11694.956,"end":11723.268,"text":"應該是第一個報表日應該是6月30號明天6月30號正式的報表應該是明年的12月30號所以真正的會到後年所以那個時間不會是各位看到那麼緊迫只是應該講為什麼我們一定要把這個制度很周延就剛才委員提到這個複雜的程度超乎我們當時的想像因為各家狀況不一樣而且這套制度複雜程度跟過去的方法論完全不同所以我想這要兼顧各家的差異又要能夠穩健過度又有這個"},{"start":11724.693,"end":11747.101,"text":"最近半年的政經情勢的波動那這些確實是為什麼我們要在這個花這麼多時間會在最近一兩天公佈就是因為我們真的希望盡量的周延作為讓我們的所有的受險業能夠平穩的我不喜歡稱為叫做寬容它是一個過渡措施是希望我們的受險業往更好方向爬樓梯的過程"},{"start":11747.461,"end":11757.388,"text":"好那我最後因為主席站起來我只問一個點那就是就像我剛剛特別提到的因為每一家受險業者的狀況不一樣的時候他們各自遭遇到了問題了然後他們如何去做回饋包括您剛剛講的嘛開的會議也不只超過50場是跟百發中心跟金管會還是如何讓他們的問題可以在整個會計呈現當中更精準的時候大家都不一樣的時候那這樣的溝通過程該怎麼處理"},{"start":11777.641,"end":11795.368,"text":"所以我們當然是這個制度是要業者來做的這個溝通絕對不可少但是政策的制定是我們來決定當然是我們要負責這個政策因為各家的需求不同我們要整合他們的意見本來就花很大的功夫我們也是在這個過程上一步一驅的跟他們進行溝通"},{"start":11795.868,"end":11820.936,"text":"好所以言下之意就是這兩天公佈之後接下來到明年的第一次的報表出來的時候反而是啟動溝通甚至於在這樣的規定當中可以有調整的機會其實我們也有跟社運公會溝通說因為因應這個情況請社運公會能夠籌組個專業的接軌委員會他們也同意朝這個這就是一個很好的一個這是一個未來是"},{"start":11821.797,"end":11824.085,"text":"十幾二十年的過程一定要有一個專業的對口好 所以結論就是"},{"start":11828.255,"end":11854.033,"text":"這個規則出來之後他其實是有修正甚至於調整的空間在那裡而不是一個死板板的規定就在那裡資本監理是非常有彈性會因應的所有的狀況我想看國外也都是這樣因為他的目的是要讓產業更好而不是成為一個變成是一個不可動沒有辦法因應環境波動的一個限制好 謝謝主委辛苦 謝謝委員謝謝主席 謝謝林委員接下來我們請邱志維委員"},{"start":11877.515,"end":11890.519,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是不是先請經管會彭主委好 我們請彭主委然後證交所林董事長林董事長吉寶林董事長吉寶林董事長桂馬簡董事長桂馬簡董事長"},{"start":11893.624,"end":11916.794,"text":"主委辛苦了第一個問題想請教你就是亞洲市場管理中心我們正是在7月12號有個揭牌典禮這是一個示範性質也不僅也不會限定只有高雄未來還有其他的專區嗎未來如果其他縣市也能提供相類似具有吸引力的誘因現在目前我們沒有收到任何的訊息所以這個專區是一個示範性質那示範到什麼時候呢"},{"start":11917.399,"end":11938.337,"text":"我們這個專區初步我們通常我們在事辦大概就是半年為一個基礎然後半年再看那個事辦的情況再做調整這樣那你半年是從4月1號開始辦算半年還是7月22號接牌開始算半年應該從7月開始7月半年就是明年初就變成正式的不是事辦性質的"},{"start":11939.809,"end":11960.351,"text":"其實我們有可能持續試辦有可能把它轉成其他的比如說可能其他的地方也可以試用或是會增加其他試辦的項目都有可能整個供應鏈半導體供應鏈是往台灣集中所以未來亞洲市場管理中心我們面對是全亞洲甚至全球"},{"start":11961.368,"end":11984.032,"text":"所以這個地點高雄專區非常有它的必要性跟急迫性為什麼呢因為高雄是未來全世界半導體製造先進製程中心所以很多的大型跨國的企業AI 半導體都會集中在高雄而且甚至有很多在亞洲或者其他國家的AI半導體廠商也會願意進駐在高雄"},{"start":11985.427,"end":11999.854,"text":"所以您對這個高雄專區的未來的所以我們在那個街牌也講過我們是事半有期但是專區永續啊我們已經提過這個部分呢我們也在未來也是會應該會是常態化只是他作為很多事半業務的試點"},{"start":12001.485,"end":12016.195,"text":"所以金融業是非常敏銳的如果這個沒有未來性不會有十幾家銀行 四家保險九家頭股 三家券商進駐所以有時候未來看好但是相關的適度法令都應該更周全"},{"start":12017.376,"end":12045.752,"text":"讓所有的金融業者在這邊能夠提供最優質的服務讓需要他們協助的這個需求的這些資產家能夠得到他們應有的需求當然確定是他們最基本的要求啦好 謝謝主委第二個問題想請問這個集保所您懂集保所集保集算所這個TISA就是個人特色的這個投資專戶那你們現在已經上路了嗎"},{"start":12047.101,"end":12071.949,"text":"對 已經上路了上路 額度內 在多少額度內由資產管理業者來讓利對 多少額度目前大概有4萬多戶 已經開戶的那多少額度啊 看你的報告來問你額度我是依據您的報告來請教您多少額度內由資產管理來讓利 讓利多少"},{"start":12073.876,"end":12097.032,"text":"我們現在就是手續費手續費是零然後心理費大概是原本的大概三到四成左右所以六月底上路到現在已經有四萬多開戶了已經有四萬多那你第二階段會有租稅跟其他優因是有哪些租稅跟其他優因目前正在積極在爭取那你希望你的普及率達到多少規模"},{"start":12098.413,"end":12123.822,"text":"那到年底我們希望是達到有6萬戶開戶會不會太保守你那兩個月就已經三個月就已經4萬戶了到年底才6萬戶對 因為目前還沒有出售的優惠我希望說既然有這個個人特色的這個投資專戶你應該有相關的配套 其他的優因讓這個開戶人能夠增加"},{"start":12124.943,"end":12133.422,"text":"這部分再請林董事長再努力謝謝林董事長接著想請問這個證交所林董事長跟那個"},{"start":12135.201,"end":12136.723,"text":"未來要把它打造成有競爭力的上市櫃制度目前的時程怎麼樣"},{"start":12159.763,"end":12181.171,"text":"執行的進度執程的進度就是事實上來講的話我覺得就華規的鬆綁的部分因為我們總統跟行政院長都有宣示一些華規的鬆綁那我們預計會在台灣州的那段時間對外做宣布也有可能是最快啦應該是這一兩天就會下禮拜就把這個計畫的詳細內容做對外公佈"},{"start":12187.122,"end":12206.736,"text":"所以我覺得12個前瞻新進的產業固然重要包括半導體 AI智慧製造綠能環保等等機器人然後櫃滿的是當然生技醫療綠能環保等等那有沒有針對這個傳統產業比如說扣件要如何去做這個先進的轉型這個部分有沒有納入"},{"start":12209.116,"end":12215.4,"text":"基本上沒有納入這個我們交易所這邊我們另外有一個所謂擴大市值的方案裡面我們會提供讓一些比較上市公司針對未來的一些變化他必須提供一些增加他的擴大市值的策略來進行跟"},{"start":12229.668,"end":12235.07,"text":"機構投資人跟一般投資人的溝通來擴大他的市值另外的制度不是這個所謂創新投資平台對 如果說是一般的這是剛才委員講的一般的企業裡面你要面臨轉型的時候你必須要有一些策略跟方法我們鼓勵他來揭示這些策略跟方法"},{"start":12252.638,"end":12267.534,"text":"讓投資大眾有更多的接觸這樣子的方式來鼓勵上市公司能夠往這方向走林董事長您的這樣說法就是這兩天就會公告公布這個所謂的相關的制度下禮拜那你們這個初期"},{"start":12270.217,"end":12281.209,"text":"第一階段大概會有多少家的國內外企業會吸引到台灣來投資基本上來講的話我們是按照總統的指示我們現在是兩年在未來這兩年我們希望到40家左右兩年40家那這個是在創新版"},{"start":12288.556,"end":12302.415,"text":"那至於說真正的外國的企業到台灣來掛牌的部分來講的話我們也希望在這兩年的期間裡面能夠有一些進展所以他們要 如果要籌資要進創新版"},{"start":12304.806,"end":12317.052,"text":"他們投資 事實上來講的話我們是以創新版來創新版就是未來轉型台灣的NASDAQ是吧對對對 基本上我們是要做這個策略我們拭目以待好 謝謝謝謝我們邱志偉委員 謝謝主委接下來鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在場"},{"start":12328.698,"end":12352.638,"text":"下一個蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在場下一個徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在場下一位謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員不在場下一位洪孟楷委員洪孟楷委員"},{"start":12353.619,"end":12370.312,"text":"洪孟楷委員不在場下一位葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在場下一位蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在場今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢本日會議做如下決定"},{"start":12380.748,"end":12404.943,"text":"一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請經管會於一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定三 本日會議議程已進行完畢堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢 以便列入記錄刊登公報 並請議事人員協助處理休息好 我們謝謝所有與會官員 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}