{"error":false,"id":["169380"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169380,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169380","日期":"2026-05-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-5-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期第9次會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第5會期第9次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-12T15:51:34+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-12T16:07:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0cec772f6559b9e424515f6f6f8a9db1c095463f94dab4fdd817488d83a1324c16680b52cefca5135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"15:51:34 - 16:07:14","會議時間":"2026-05-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「醫療法第十二條、第一百零二條及第一百零二條之一條文修正草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「醫療法第十二條條文修正草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「醫療法第十二條及第一百零二條條文修正草案」，請審議案等2案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、5月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.047843750000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.23346875,"end":1.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.05034375,"end":17.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.57659375,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29.410343750000003,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.50721875,"end":31.620968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.789718750000002,"end":35.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.83534375,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.58034375000001,"end":86.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.37596875,"end":88.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.70909375000001,"end":94.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.02034375000001,"end":99.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.69471875,"end":101.93909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.53409375000001,"end":121.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.93659375000001,"end":135.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.06034375000002,"end":142.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":143.65409375000002,"end":148.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.15971875,"end":149.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.71221875,"end":153.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.59346875,"end":181.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":182.55096875,"end":185.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.90909375,"end":186.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.29721875,"end":187.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":188.79471875000002,"end":193.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":194.11034375,"end":196.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":197.02971875,"end":203.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":203.59409375,"end":210.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.98534375000003,"end":220.28346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.67159375000003,"end":229.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.03409375,"end":224.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.81846875000002,"end":226.57784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.02471875,"end":253.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.01659375000003,"end":255.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":255.99096875000004,"end":261.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":261.76221875000005,"end":262.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":262.94346875,"end":263.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":264.09096875,"end":265.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":265.79534375000003,"end":268.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":269.03534375000004,"end":270.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":270.85784375000003,"end":272.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":272.44409375000004,"end":275.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":276.02159375,"end":276.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":276.88221875,"end":277.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.24909375000004,"end":280.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":281.32034375,"end":283.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":284.13846875,"end":284.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":285.06659375000004,"end":288.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":289.11659375,"end":291.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.87159375000005,"end":293.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.20034375,"end":294.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":294.33096875,"end":294.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.34784375000004,"end":326.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.27596875,"end":296.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":296.77784375000005,"end":296.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.96409375,"end":323.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":324.19971875000005,"end":324.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.14471875000004,"end":338.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.41846875000005,"end":328.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":333.83534375000005,"end":334.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":335.30346875000004,"end":339.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.64471875000004,"end":360.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.75096875,"end":365.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.71221875000003,"end":400.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.18346875000003,"end":411.81471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.29659375,"end":406.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.24096875000004,"end":416.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":414.54846875000004,"end":430.83284375000005},{"sp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xt":"我們運作成熟了才有可能到國外因為國外還要牽扯到跟對方國之間非航非安很多法令上的一些雙邊的一些統合所以這個部分應該像國內我們先把這個整個無人機產業發展技術完備運送成熟之後我們才能進一步發展到國外去這個應該是有一個順序來做的"},{"start":211.007,"end":220.115,"text":"那法規法令呢有沒有辦法讓就是農業部的農糧署的相關的共同來對接呢有沒有辦法"},{"start":220.734,"end":245.971,"text":"如果需要到這樣子甚至還有一些非行非安簡易的問題都要全部納進來談這不是交通部自己能夠處理的那我是說從無人載具的部分因為畢竟無人載具智慧農業裡面也有相關的就是無人載具的應用的部分不管是噴農藥不管是載運貨物等等都有相關的這樣子的一個"},{"start":247.333,"end":255.344,"text":"那是不是未來在智慧農業的部分也能夠共同來使用無人機的航道呢"},{"start":256.135,"end":283.345,"text":"未來這個願景是對的我們對無人機在農業使用方面不要只停留在噴農藥的那樣一個使用那會不會太狹隘將來有可能我們整個無人機的技術成熟的載重的問題也可以擴充了那當然可以向外去延伸那這個時候相關法律就要整合農業部交通部整整行管都要去整合這個部分那我們會一步一步來做那如果今天委員已經提醒了那我會請"},{"start":284.465,"end":306.214,"text":"這個交通部先來做一個規劃將來有一天但是我覺得那個還是一個相當時間的一個一個一個討論跟準備你覺得不可行嗎你覺得太遠了嗎不是太遠我們必須從國內成熟以後再來處理我也跟委員報告其實剛才我特別提到交通部已經有相關的一個示範那像有關那個藥品的運送那衛福部也有"},{"start":308.095,"end":332.662,"text":"一些事辦投送的一個計畫那農業部噴灑這個農藥當然也都有但是這都僅止於事辦那如果剛才院長講如果就成熟了以後來推廣要相關有法規來律定這需要各單位跨部會來急難救助的時候投放不管是藥品也好食物也好物品也好這都是"},{"start":333.522,"end":360.331,"text":"未來需要的部分花蓮救災就有用過衛福部的同樣所以這個東西就是未來應該要共同的跨部會的合作跟發展嘛對不對不應該僅止於交通部對於無人載具運貨的部分嘛那農作物以及在內政部的相關的部分也應該要一併來做處理喔還有我就想要問到就是Grab"},{"start":360.811,"end":380.856,"text":"就是未來他們希望可以併購那個Fubenda那現在已經在審議了我想要請問交通部的是說未來怎麼樣確保原有的外送員的那個團保的傷害險以及第三人的責任險是可以無縫接軌的"},{"start":381.676,"end":400.544,"text":"如果5月15號他們現在已經補件了那補件公平會在審議當中怎麼樣確保如果有一天他併購了他Grab併購了Fupenda或者是以後怎麼樣子能夠確保他們的意外顯示無縫接軌的"},{"start":401.223,"end":430.728,"text":"我想跟委員報告有關外送員的這樣在我們國內是有一個外送員的一個專法在那個專法裡頭會有勞動部來對於這個外送員的相關的權益不是我在講的是那個第三責任險還有就是他在他的外送的權益裡頭就會就這個保險的部分來駕馭律定所以這一部分透過現在外送員的專法那各部會來訂定相關的一個執行的一個要點是可以來執行的"},{"start":430.828,"end":449.557,"text":"好 現在林部長在這裡所以我也順便問一下因為GREF它是否可以公開合併後的里程計費公式因為這樣子的公式會影響到外送員他每單討單的收益"},{"start":450.097,"end":473.852,"text":"那因為現在有一些利用數位APP壟斷或者是影響這個就是說剝奪到了這個外送員的接單的權益這影響到的層面很廣那交通部你有沒有辦法去去審查以及數位部是不是應該要提供相關的這樣子的一個技術呢"},{"start":474.612,"end":500.641,"text":"跟委員報告 關於公開演算法這件事情事實上在技術上並不是太大的問題主要的問題會是在於說我們跟其他國家簽有一些貿易協定那有些貿易協定裡面會講說不得要求對方的公司在台灣設立據點的時候要求他開放演算法這個是各國之間在做貿易談判的時候"},{"start":501.181,"end":528.828,"text":"可是今天涉及到因為公平會在審理涉及到那個獨佔或壟斷嘛因為Fu Panda跟那個Uber Eats對於台灣整體的這個外送市場是非常大的一個就是獨佔率那我也問過了公平會了Fu Panda他一定是就是說有獨佔的這樣子的問題那未來如果Grab介入就是說到了台灣以後那他相關的演算法甚至會不會"},{"start":530.309,"end":545.05,"text":"就是說它的那個業務範圍會不會開放到其他的就是運送的或者是像計程車等等的相關的領域這也是交通部以及數位部應該要共同來協助考量的對不對"},{"start":546.193,"end":547.414,"text":"如果沒有的話 那我們應該就可以"},{"start":562.103,"end":587.84,"text":"如果有的話或者是我是說當數位部今天在審查的時候因為他必須要對於這個相關的這個APP就是他的是不是會有數位壟斷的這部分做審查所以如果有法令的限制那就不能夠去調閱他的APP嗎他的演算法嗎他APP的演算法嗎當然有法律限制的話當然就不行但是沒有法律限制就可以啊"},{"start":588.39,"end":617.67,"text":"不是不是林部長你要確定喔因為那個公平會在審理的時候他會發文給GREP那你今天所說的話都會作為未來GREP在申請的時候相關的依據喔那你要對台灣的法規法律是很清楚的喔你不是只看外國的法規法律當然當然這個還是以台灣的法律為主是不是應該要以台灣的法規法律為主嘛是不是是當然啊"},{"start":618.05,"end":627.575,"text":"是不是還有我現在也有收到一個就是民眾在出國的時候我是不是能請NCC的代理主委"},{"start":629.264,"end":656.811,"text":"民眾在出國旅遊的時候他通常會選擇價格比較實惠的境外的這個eSIM那近期衍生出的個資還有隱私權疑慮台灣數位媒體經銷商的執行長邱繼宏他就點名了NCC以防炸為目的阻擋本土的電信業者要發展eSIM請問這個未來要怎麼營運"},{"start":657.822,"end":676.752,"text":"是跟委員報告這一部分是因為我們先前在打造條例第15條有規定所有申請健訊服務必須要有做KYG就是實名制那早期所以目前的問題是說如果國內商家業者賣到國外的旅遊卡的話我們是要求他要做實名制那"},{"start":678.514,"end":698.332,"text":"呃那份報導也就是說民眾因為呃比較喜歡方便他不喜歡去臨櫃辦理或怎麼樣那我們現在正在找檢警還有電信業者來討論說在一定的條件下比方說那是既有的三家電信業者的用戶如果他在申請國外的一信卡的話那程序上可不可以做一些呃"},{"start":700.213,"end":724.317,"text":"風險考量之下作為適度的對應一些簡化處理那也跟委員報告這種情況其實在先前打造國家隊裡頭在監管會那邊有曾經因為洗錢洗錢所以它國內網營的交易可是e-SIM卡也是在這個嗎因為你們我要請問的就是速發部的林部長在e-SIM卡怎麼樣子讓know your customer"},{"start":724.957,"end":734.704,"text":"這樣子的一個檢查的流程可以簡化讓我們的電信業者也可以來申辦"},{"start":736.082,"end":764.293,"text":"OK我想這個問題還是就是剛才那個代理主委所講的這個KYC的部分就是我們要看有沒有什麼辦法可以讓這個使用者一般民眾他在申請你是不是應該設計台灣的eSIM卡的這樣子的一個身份認證讓這個身份認證可以檢疫然後可以讓台灣的電信業者也有辦法來做這個eSIM卡是不是"},{"start":765.094,"end":782.177,"text":"各位報告第一點就是說台灣的醫訊卡現在其實是有開放不夠簡化簡化部分我們正在研議但是KIC是可以討論可以檢討來可不可以重新簡化但是不可能免為什麼不可以免"},{"start":782.577,"end":808.811,"text":"第一個剛剛跟委員報告的達到條例15條是規定要KYC第二個過往這個網營洗錢這個詐騙集團是利用到境外去來操作這個網營洗錢後來金管會就把洗錢的IP鎖定國外的IP全部擋掉如果說國內的電信商發行醫訊到國外使用國內不能使用即便是這樣子如果沒有KYC的話詐騙集團又會回頭來使用他來洗錢"},{"start":810.572,"end":833.217,"text":"那如果台灣用,按照你的說法,台灣如果民眾用就是外國的eSIM卡,那他就會規避了這樣子相關的,那你也沒有辦法做相關的這個防範啊,是不是?有,各位報告,現在網友洗錢,今晚我只約定國內網友只能接受國內的IP,就境外的"},{"start":834.217,"end":862.195,"text":"不是 我是說那如果大家去國外旅遊用了e-SIM卡這樣子的一個方式那你也沒有辦法做就是說know your customer的這樣子的相關的檢查那怎麼樣子協助國內的這個電信業者來簡化e-SIM know your customer的這樣子的流程我相信速發部應該要拿出魄力來解決嘛是不是這件事情我們會跟NCC研究不然為什麼我們要成立速發部呢"},{"start":862.575,"end":887.791,"text":"我了解那個委員的意思就是要讓民眾現在因為民眾買台灣三大電信公司的eSIM卡必須臨櫃去辦理那就是要想辦法那個就是讓民眾可以不用臨櫃辦理又能做到KYC這有些技術上的挑戰但是應該你覺得可以克服對不對你可以克服的那院長這樣子可以解決嗎報告委員在有效打炸的這個前提底下"},{"start":888.531,"end":909.95,"text":"我們沒有安全的防範措施的時候我希望各個單位都能夠謹慎去處理那怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢?第二個對於三大電信公司對本身已有的消費者他應該用簡化的方式讓他能夠進到eSIM卡這個新的一個潮流的來臨那請林部長再回答怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢?"},{"start":911.409,"end":931.915,"text":"是就是剛才那個院長所講的我們就是讓現有的那個三大電信公司的客戶他如果已經有SIM卡他要再去買一個國外的eSIM卡照理說應該會有一些方式那這個部分我們會跟NCC想辦法用技術的方式我們協助NCC要解決我們會努力 應該是有辦法決定我們進出這個參會務必要謹慎好 謝謝謝委員 謝謝卓院長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}