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126,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下有關無人機來使用這個載貨的原則上先從國內的空域先來做相關的一個示範跟開放什麼時候開始這個需要由民航局來研議相關的法規之後來推動"},{"start":95.343,"end":119.057,"text":"這個部分5月6號的時候已經部長已經說你們那個部內在研議啦是不是我跟你們報告有關事辦的這樣的一個是沒有問題事辦我們從郵政公司也好或者是運營所也好都有相關的一個事辦但是如果要變成一個推廣他提到的部分"},{"start":119.377,"end":136.89,"text":"有相關的法律來配合提到的部分不只是國內還有是出網到菲律賓等等的無人機無人載具的載貨的航運所以你們預計什麼時候以及相關的法規法令什麼時候起備"},{"start":143.897,"end":171.377,"text":"我想這部分我來準備相關的資料送給委員參考所以目前你還沒有掌握嗎因為相關的這個他們正在規劃中因為無人載具的相關的計畫是在行政院的這是整體的計畫那用跨部會的來做相關性的整合那我現在為什麼在院會的質詢提到那就是因為未來也有高價的"},{"start":172.818,"end":187.726,"text":"這個農作物也可以藉由無人載具的部分來做運輸運往其他鄰近的國家是不是跟委員報告這個當然要按部就班而走國內讓他成熟了"},{"start":188.834,"end":209.566,"text":"我們運作成熟了才有可能到國外因為國外還要牽扯到跟對方國之間非航非安很多法令上的一些雙邊的一些統合所以這個部分應該像國內我們先把這個整個無人機產業發展技術完備運送成熟之後我們才能進一步發展到國外去這個應該是有一個順序來做的"},{"start":211.007,"end":220.115,"text":"那法規法令呢有沒有辦法讓就是農業部的農糧署的相關的共同來對接呢有沒有辦法"},{"start":220.734,"end":245.971,"text":"如果需要到這樣子甚至還有一些非行非安簡易的問題都要全部納進來談這不是交通部自己能夠處理的那我是說從無人載具的部分因為畢竟無人載具智慧農業裡面也有相關的就是無人載具的應用的部分不管是噴農藥不管是載運貨物等等都有相關的這樣子的一個"},{"start":247.333,"end":255.344,"text":"那是不是未來在智慧農業的部分也能夠共同來使用無人機的航道呢"},{"start":256.135,"end":283.345,"text":"未來這個願景是對的我們對無人機在農業使用方面不要只停留在噴農藥的那樣一個使用那會不會太狹隘將來有可能我們整個無人機的技術成熟的載重的問題也可以擴充了那當然可以向外去延伸那這個時候相關法律就要整合農業部交通部整整行管都要去整合這個部分那我們會一步一步來做那如果今天委員已經提醒了那我會請"},{"start":284.465,"end":306.214,"text":"這個交通部先來做一個規劃將來有一天但是我覺得那個還是一個相當時間的一個一個一個討論跟準備你覺得不可行嗎你覺得太遠了嗎不是太遠我們必須從國內成熟以後再來處理我也跟委員報告其實剛才我特別提到交通部已經有相關的一個示範那像有關那個藥品的運送那衛福部也有"},{"start":308.095,"end":332.662,"text":"一些事辦投送的一個計畫那農業部噴灑這個農藥當然也都有但是這都僅止於事辦那如果剛才院長講如果就成熟了以後來推廣要相關有法規來律定這需要各單位跨部會來急難救助的時候投放不管是藥品也好食物也好物品也好這都是"},{"start":333.522,"end":360.331,"text":"未來需要的部分花蓮救災就有用過衛福部的同樣所以這個東西就是未來應該要共同的跨部會的合作跟發展嘛對不對不應該僅止於交通部對於無人載具運貨的部分嘛那農作物以及在內政部的相關的部分也應該要一併來做處理喔還有我就想要問到就是Grab"},{"start":360.811,"end":380.856,"text":"就是未來他們希望可以併購那個Fubenda那現在已經在審議了我想要請問交通部的是說未來怎麼樣確保原有的外送員的那個團保的傷害險以及第三人的責任險是可以無縫接軌的"},{"start":381.676,"end":400.544,"text":"如果5月15號他們現在已經補件了那補件公平會在審議當中怎麼樣確保如果有一天他併購了他Grab併購了Fupenda或者是以後怎麼樣子能夠確保他們的意外顯示無縫接軌的"},{"start":401.223,"end":430.728,"text":"我想跟委員報告有關外送員的這樣在我們國內是有一個外送員的一個專法在那個專法裡頭會有勞動部來對於這個外送員的相關的權益不是我在講的是那個第三責任險還有就是他在他的外送的權益裡頭就會就這個保險的部分來駕馭律定所以這一部分透過現在外送員的專法那各部會來訂定相關的一個執行的一個要點是可以來執行的"},{"start":430.828,"end":449.557,"text":"好 現在林部長在這裡所以我也順便問一下因為GREF它是否可以公開合併後的里程計費公式因為這樣子的公式會影響到外送員他每單討單的收益"},{"start":450.097,"end":473.852,"text":"那因為現在有一些利用數位APP壟斷或者是影響這個就是說剝奪到了這個外送員的接單的權益這影響到的層面很廣那交通部你有沒有辦法去去審查以及數位部是不是應該要提供相關的這樣子的一個技術呢"},{"start":474.612,"end":500.641,"text":"跟委員報告 關於公開演算法這件事情事實上在技術上並不是太大的問題主要的問題會是在於說我們跟其他國家簽有一些貿易協定那有些貿易協定裡面會講說不得要求對方的公司在台灣設立據點的時候要求他開放演算法這個是各國之間在做貿易談判的時候"},{"start":501.181,"end":528.828,"text":"可是今天涉及到因為公平會在審理涉及到那個獨佔或壟斷嘛因為Fu Panda跟那個Uber Eats對於台灣整體的這個外送市場是非常大的一個就是獨佔率那我也問過了公平會了Fu Panda他一定是就是說有獨佔的這樣子的問題那未來如果Grab介入就是說到了台灣以後那他相關的演算法甚至會不會"},{"start":530.309,"end":545.05,"text":"就是說它的那個業務範圍會不會開放到其他的就是運送的或者是像計程車等等的相關的領域這也是交通部以及數位部應該要共同來協助考量的對不對"},{"start":546.193,"end":547.414,"text":"如果沒有的話 那我們應該就可以"},{"start":562.103,"end":587.84,"text":"如果有的話或者是我是說當數位部今天在審查的時候因為他必須要對於這個相關的這個APP就是他的是不是會有數位壟斷的這部分做審查所以如果有法令的限制那就不能夠去調閱他的APP嗎他的演算法嗎他APP的演算法嗎當然有法律限制的話當然就不行但是沒有法律限制就可以啊"},{"start":588.39,"end":617.67,"text":"不是不是林部長你要確定喔因為那個公平會在審理的時候他會發文給GREP那你今天所說的話都會作為未來GREP在申請的時候相關的依據喔那你要對台灣的法規法律是很清楚的喔你不是只看外國的法規法律當然當然這個還是以台灣的法律為主是不是應該要以台灣的法規法律為主嘛是不是是當然啊"},{"start":618.05,"end":627.575,"text":"是不是還有我現在也有收到一個就是民眾在出國的時候我是不是能請NCC的代理主委"},{"start":629.264,"end":656.811,"text":"民眾在出國旅遊的時候他通常會選擇價格比較實惠的境外的這個eSIM那近期衍生出的個資還有隱私權疑慮台灣數位媒體經銷商的執行長邱繼宏他就點名了NCC以防炸為目的阻擋本土的電信業者要發展eSIM請問這個未來要怎麼營運"},{"start":657.822,"end":676.752,"text":"是跟委員報告這一部分是因為我們先前在打造條例第15條有規定所有申請健訊服務必須要有做KYG就是實名制那早期所以目前的問題是說如果國內商家業者賣到國外的旅遊卡的話我們是要求他要做實名制那"},{"start":678.514,"end":698.332,"text":"呃那份報導也就是說民眾因為呃比較喜歡方便他不喜歡去臨櫃辦理或怎麼樣那我們現在正在找檢警還有電信業者來討論說在一定的條件下比方說那是既有的三家電信業者的用戶如果他在申請國外的一信卡的話那程序上可不可以做一些呃"},{"start":700.213,"end":724.317,"text":"風險考量之下作為適度的對應一些簡化處理那也跟委員報告這種情況其實在先前打造國家隊裡頭在監管會那邊有曾經因為洗錢洗錢所以它國內網營的交易可是e-SIM卡也是在這個嗎因為你們我要請問的就是速發部的林部長在e-SIM卡怎麼樣子讓know your customer"},{"start":724.957,"end":734.704,"text":"這樣子的一個檢查的流程可以簡化讓我們的電信業者也可以來申辦"},{"start":736.082,"end":764.293,"text":"OK我想這個問題還是就是剛才那個代理主委所講的這個KYC的部分就是我們要看有沒有什麼辦法可以讓這個使用者一般民眾他在申請你是不是應該設計台灣的eSIM卡的這樣子的一個身份認證讓這個身份認證可以檢疫然後可以讓台灣的電信業者也有辦法來做這個eSIM卡是不是"},{"start":765.094,"end":782.177,"text":"各位報告第一點就是說台灣的醫訊卡現在其實是有開放不夠簡化簡化部分我們正在研議但是KIC是可以討論可以檢討來可不可以重新簡化但是不可能免為什麼不可以免"},{"start":782.577,"end":808.811,"text":"第一個剛剛跟委員報告的達到條例15條是規定要KYC第二個過往這個網營洗錢這個詐騙集團是利用到境外去來操作這個網營洗錢後來金管會就把洗錢的IP鎖定國外的IP全部擋掉如果說國內的電信商發行醫訊到國外使用國內不能使用即便是這樣子如果沒有KYC的話詐騙集團又會回頭來使用他來洗錢"},{"start":810.572,"end":833.217,"text":"那如果台灣用,按照你的說法,台灣如果民眾用就是外國的eSIM卡,那他就會規避了這樣子相關的,那你也沒有辦法做相關的這個防範啊,是不是?有,各位報告,現在網友洗錢,今晚我只約定國內網友只能接受國內的IP,就境外的"},{"start":834.217,"end":862.195,"text":"不是 我是說那如果大家去國外旅遊用了e-SIM卡這樣子的一個方式那你也沒有辦法做就是說know your customer的這樣子的相關的檢查那怎麼樣子協助國內的這個電信業者來簡化e-SIM know your customer的這樣子的流程我相信速發部應該要拿出魄力來解決嘛是不是這件事情我們會跟NCC研究不然為什麼我們要成立速發部呢"},{"start":862.575,"end":887.791,"text":"我了解那個委員的意思就是要讓民眾現在因為民眾買台灣三大電信公司的eSIM卡必須臨櫃去辦理那就是要想辦法那個就是讓民眾可以不用臨櫃辦理又能做到KYC這有些技術上的挑戰但是應該你覺得可以克服對不對你可以克服的那院長這樣子可以解決嗎報告委員在有效打炸的這個前提底下"},{"start":888.531,"end":909.95,"text":"我們沒有安全的防範措施的時候我希望各個單位都能夠謹慎去處理那怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢?第二個對於三大電信公司對本身已有的消費者他應該用簡化的方式讓他能夠進到eSIM卡這個新的一個潮流的來臨那請林部長再回答怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢?"},{"start":911.409,"end":931.915,"text":"是就是剛才那個院長所講的我們就是讓現有的那個三大電信公司的客戶他如果已經有SIM卡他要再去買一個國外的eSIM卡照理說應該會有一些方式那這個部分我們會跟NCC想辦法用技術的方式我們協助NCC要解決我們會努力 應該是有辦法決定我們進出這個參會務必要謹慎好 謝謝謝委員 謝謝卓院長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:51:45.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:51:46.793000+08:00","text":"謝謝副院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:51:47.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:51:51.296000+08:00","text":"請卓院長，還有交通部陳次長、數發部林部長。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T15:51:51.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:51:55.459000+08:00","text":"卓院長，還有陳次長、林部長，請備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:51:55.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:51:55.479000+08:00","text":"謝委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:52:04.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:52:05.020000+08:00","text":"院長午安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:52:05.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:52:27.735000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下交通部，部長在5月6日備詢時提到，未來交通部準備要推動無人機的專屬航道修法，這個部分我想請教一下，未來是針對國內的還是國際的？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:52:28.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:52:32.959000+08:00","text":"這個無人機的載貨是用在國內還是國際？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:52:33.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:52:47.491000+08:00","text":"以及未來我們如果可以推動國內高價水果外銷的時候，是不是也可以跟農業部共用？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:52:49.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:00.701000+08:00","text":"我想跟委員報告一下，有關使用無人機載貨，原則上先從國內空域來做相關的試辦跟開放。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:01.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:02.102000+08:00","text":"什麼時候開始？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:03.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:08.126000+08:00","text":"這個需要由民航局研議相關的法規之後再來推動。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:09.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:15.647000+08:00","text":"這個部分5月6日的時候，部長已經說你們部內在研議了，是不是？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:17.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:34.598000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，有關試辦是沒有問題的，不管是郵政公司也好，或者是運研所也好，都有相關的試辦，但是如果要推廣的話，可能要有相關法令來配合。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:35.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:38.180000+08:00","text":"他提到的部分不只是國內喔！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:38.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:46.987000+08:00","text":"還有輸往菲律賓等等的無人載具載貨航運，是不是？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:46.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:53:50.890000+08:00","text":"所以你們預計相關的法規、法令什麼時候齊備？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:53:58.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:54:01.600000+08:00","text":"針對這部分，我來準備相關的資料送給委員參考。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:54:02.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:54:04.382000+08:00","text":"所以目前你還沒有掌握嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:54:04.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:54:06.924000+08:00","text":"因為相關的部分他們正在規劃中。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:54:07.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:54:17.952000+08:00","text":"因為無人載具的相關計畫是在行政院，這是整體的計畫，跨部會來做相關性的整合。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:54:18.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:54:35.082000+08:00","text":"我現在為什麼在院會的質詢提到，就是因為未來也有高價農作物可以藉由無人載具來運輸，運往鄰近其他國家，是不是？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:54:36.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:03.446000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個當然要按部就班來走，國內讓它成熟了、我們運作成熟了，才有可能到國外，因為國外還牽扯到跟對方國之間飛航、飛安很多法令上的雙邊統合，所以這個部分應該先國內，我們先把整個無人機產業發展完備，且運送技術成熟之後，才能進一步發展到國外去，這應該有一個順序來做。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:05.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:05.928000+08:00","text":"法規、法令呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:06.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:12.954000+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法讓農業部農糧署來做共同對接？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:13.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:14.095000+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:14.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:20.718000+08:00","text":"如果需要到這樣子的話，那麼飛航、飛安與檢疫問題都要全部納進來談……對、對。","quality":0.613},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:20.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:22.419000+08:00","text":"這不是交通部自己能夠處理的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:23.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:39.030000+08:00","text":"我是說從無人載具的部分，畢竟智慧農業也有無人載具的應用，不管是噴農藥、不管是載運貨物等等，都有相關合作。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:42.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:49.084000+08:00","text":"所以未來在智慧農業部分，是不是也能共同使用無人機航道？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:50.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:55:57.698000+08:00","text":"未來這個願景是對的，但對於無人機使用在農業方面，不要只停留在噴農藥那樣的使用，那未免太狹隘。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:55:58.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:14.824000+08:00","text":"將來我們整個無人機技術成熟了，載重方面也可以擴充了，當然可以向外延伸，那時候相關法令就要整合，農業部、交通部、航管等等都要整合，所以我們會一步步來做。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:15.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:25.028000+08:00","text":"既然今天委員已經提醒了，我會請交通部先做規劃，以待將來有一天，但我覺得那還需要一段相當時間的討論跟準備。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:25.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:26.269000+08:00","text":"你覺得不可行嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:26.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:28.489000+08:00","text":"你覺得太遠了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:28.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:29.350000+08:00","text":"不是太遠……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:29.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:30.670000+08:00","text":"距離我們現在太遠嗎？","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:30.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:31.591000+08:00","text":"是等國內成熟以後再來處理。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:32.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:49.897000+08:00","text":"我也跟委員報告，剛才我特別提到交通部已經做了相關試辦，像藥品運送，衛福部也試辦了一些投送計畫，至於農業部噴灑農藥當然都有，但都僅止於試辦。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:50.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:56.019000+08:00","text":"誠如剛才院長所說，待成熟以後再來推廣，而且也需要有相關法規來律定……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:56.019000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:57.019000+08:00","text":"甚至在急難救助也有可能。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:56.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:56:58.940000+08:00","text":"這需要各單位跨部會來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:56:58.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:00.380000+08:00","text":"急難救助更是需要！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:00.380000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:01.380000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:00.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:08.602000+08:00","text":"急難救助的時候不管投放藥品也好，食物也好，物品也好，這些都是未來需要的部分。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:08.602000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:10.943000+08:00","text":"是不是在這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:10.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:12.144000+08:00","text":"上次在花蓮救災，衛福部就有用來投藥。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:13.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:19.786000+08:00","text":"對，所以這個東西未來就是應該要跨部會來共同合作與發展，對不對？是。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:19.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:31.790000+08:00","text":"所以對於無人載具運貨部分，不應該僅止於交通部，與農作物及內政部相關的部分，也應該要一併處理。","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:32.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:41.773000+08:00","text":"還有，我想請問Grab的問題，未來他們希望可以併購foodpanda，現在已經在審議了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:42.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:57:54.836000+08:00","text":"我想請問交通部，未來怎麼確保外送員原有的團保傷害險及第三責任險可以無縫接軌？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:57:55.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:58:02.399000+08:00","text":"如果5月15號……他們現在已經補件了，公平會在審議當中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:58:04.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:58:14.524000+08:00","text":"如果有一天Grab併購了foodpanda，以後怎麼樣才能確保外送員的意外險可以無縫接軌？","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:58:15.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:58:25.165000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關外送員，我們國內有外送員專法，該專法由勞動部對於外送員相關的權益……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:58:25.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:58:28.585000+08:00","text":"不是，我在講的是第三責任險，還有傷害險。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳次長彥伯","start":"2026-05-12T15:58:29.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:58:44.828000+08:00","text":"在其外送權益裡，會就保險的部分來加以律定，所以這部分會透過現行外送員專法，由各部會來訂定相關執行要點來執行。好。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:58:45.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:58:55.753000+08:00","text":"既然林部長在這裡，我就順便問一下，也就是Grab在合併後，是否會公開里程計費公式？","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:58:56.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:59:03.537000+08:00","text":"因為這樣的公式會影響到外送員跑每一單的收益。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:59:04.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:59:21.888000+08:00","text":"因為有一些會利用數位app來壟斷或影響，甚至剝奪外送員的接單權益，其影響層面是很廣的，請問交通部有沒有辦法審查？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:59:23.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:59:27.832000+08:00","text":"數位部是不是應該提供相關技術？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T15:59:28.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T15:59:54.621000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，關於公開演算法這件事情，其實在技術上並不是太大的問題，主要問題在於我們跟其他國家有簽一些貿易協定，而有些貿易協定會有要求，不得於對方公司在臺灣設立據點的時候要求它開放演算法，這個是各國之間在做貿易談判的時候通常……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T15:59:55.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:00:39.050000+08:00","text":"可是今天涉及到……因為公平會在審理，這個涉及到獨占或是壟斷，尤其foodpanda跟Uber Eats對於臺灣整體外送市場有很大的獨占率，我也問過公平會，foodpandae一定有獨占的問題，未來如果Grab介入，也就是到了臺灣以後，相關的演算法，甚至會不會侵犯……就是它的業務範圍會不會開放到其他的運送或是計程車等等相關的領域，這也是交通部及數位部應該要共同協助考量的，對不對？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:00:39.050000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:00:56.103000+08:00","text":"是，就如同我剛才講的，我們會去檢視跟其他國家簽訂的貿易協定裡面是不是有排除不能要求開放演算法的部分，如果沒有的話，我們應該就可以往下研議……","quality":0.203},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:00:56.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:15.936000+08:00","text":"那如果有的話，我是說當數位部在審查的時候，因為它必須要對於相關的app是不是會有數位壟斷的部分做審查，所以如果有法令的限制，就不能調閱它的app跟演算法嗎？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:16.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:18.398000+08:00","text":"不能調閱它app的演算法嗎？","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:18.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:21.820000+08:00","text":"當然，有法律限制的話，當然就不行，但是沒有法律限制就可以啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:22.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:22.690000+08:00","text":"不是、不是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:24.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:26.093000+08:00","text":"林部長，你要確定喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:26.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:38.781000+08:00","text":"因為公平會在審理的時候會發文給Grab，你今天所說的話都會做為未來Grab申請時的相關依據喔！","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:39.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:44.625000+08:00","text":"你要對臺灣的法規、法令是很清楚的，不是只看外國法規、法令，是不是？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:45.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:45.526000+08:00","text":"當然、當然、當然！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:45.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:47.107000+08:00","text":"還是以臺灣的法律為主。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:47.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:47.367000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:47.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:50.469000+08:00","text":"應該要以臺灣法規、法令為主嘛！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:50.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:50.969000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:51.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:01:51.650000+08:00","text":"是，當然啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:01:53.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:02:01.555000+08:00","text":"還有，我現在也有看到一則報導，民眾出國……我是不是能請NCC代理主委上台？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:02:03.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:02:30.811000+08:00","text":"許多民眾在出國旅遊的時候通常會選擇價格比較實惠的境外eSIM，但近期卻衍伸出個資及隱私權的疑慮，台灣數位媒體經銷商執行長邱繼弘點名NCC以防詐騙為目的，阻擋本土電信業者發展eSIM，請問這個未來要怎麼因應？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:02:32.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:02:42.328000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個部分是因為我們先前在打詐條例第十五條有規定，所有申請電信服務 必須要做KYC，也就是實名制，早期……","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:02:42.328000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:02:43.328000+08:00","text":"know your customer，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:02:42.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:03:17.477000+08:00","text":"所以目前問題是說，如果是國內三家業者賣到國外的旅遊卡，我們要求它要做實名制，那篇報導是說民眾喜歡方便，不喜歡去臨櫃辦理或怎麼樣，我們現在正在找檢、警跟電信業者來討論，在一定的條件下，比方既有三家電信業者的用戶如果申請國外的eSIM卡，在程序上可不可以在風險考量下做一些適度、對應的簡化處理。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:03:18.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:03:27.046000+08:00","text":"也跟委員報告，這種情況其實在先前的打詐國家隊裡面，金管會那邊曾經因為洗錢，對國內的網銀交易有疑慮時……","quality":0.761},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:03:27.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:03:30.309000+08:00","text":"可是eSIM卡也是在這個裡面嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:03:31.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:03:48.704000+08:00","text":"我要請問數發部林部長，針對eSIM卡，怎樣讓know your customer這樣的檢查流程可以簡化，讓我們的電信業者也可以申辦呢？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:03:50.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:04:02.987000+08:00","text":"OK，我想這個問題就是剛才代理主委所講的KYC的部分，我們要看有沒有什麼辦法可以讓使用者、一般民眾在申請……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:04:02.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:04:09.990000+08:00","text":"對，你是不是應該設計臺灣的eSIM卡的身分認證？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:04:09.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:04:18.273000+08:00","text":"讓身分認證比較簡易，然後讓臺灣的電信業者也有辦法來做這個eSIM卡，是不是？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:04:19.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:04:24.441000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，第一點，臺灣的eSIM卡現在其實是有開放，三家業者……","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:04:24.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:04:25.282000+08:00","text":"不夠簡化，是不是？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:04:27.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:04:36.157000+08:00","text":"對，簡化的部分我們正在研議，KYC是可以討論、檢討看看可不可以考慮從寬簡化，但是不可能免，為什麼不可以免？","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:04:36.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:05:02.811000+08:00","text":"第一個，剛剛跟委員報告的，打詐條例第十五條規定要做KYC；第二個，過往的網銀洗錢，詐騙集團是在境外利用操作網銀來洗錢，後來金管會就把洗錢的IP鎖定，把國外的IP全部擋掉，如果國內的電信商發行的eSIM卡到國外使用，國內不能使用，即便是這樣子，如果沒有KYC的話，詐騙集團又會回過頭來使用它來洗錢。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:05:06.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:05:19.055000+08:00","text":"按照你的說法，如果臺灣民眾用外國的eSIM卡，他就會規避了相關的管控，你也沒有辦法做相關的防範，是不是？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:05:19.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:05:27.197000+08:00","text":"有，跟委員報告，像那種網銀洗錢，金管會約定國內的網銀只能接受國內的IP，就是境外的eSIM卡是無法使用的……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:05:28.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:05:53.013000+08:00","text":"不是，我是說如果大家去國外旅遊用了eSIM卡這樣子的方式，你也沒有辦法做know your customer的相關檢查，怎麼樣協助國內的電信業者來簡化eSIM卡know your customer的流程，我相信數發部應該要拿出魄力來解決，是不是？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:05:53.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:05:54.734000+08:00","text":"是，這件事情我們會跟NCC研究……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:05:54.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:05:55.995000+08:00","text":"不然為什麼我們要成立數發部，是不是？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:05:56.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:13.165000+08:00","text":"是，我了解委員的意思，就是要讓民眾……現在因為民眾買臺灣三大電信公司的eSIM卡必須臨櫃去辦理，要想辦法讓民眾可以不用臨櫃辦理又能做到KYC，這個有些技術上的挑戰，但是應該我們會跟……","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:13.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:15.847000+08:00","text":"你覺得可以克服，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:15.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:16.387000+08:00","text":"你可以克服啊。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:16.387000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:17.387000+08:00","text":"我們會跟NCC……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:17.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:18.829000+08:00","text":"院長，這樣子可以解決嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:18.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:26.995000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在有效打詐的前提底下，我們沒有安全的防範措施的時候，我希望各個單位都能夠謹慎去處理……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:27.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:28.937000+08:00","text":"那怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:28.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:29.937000+08:00","text":"林部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:29.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:39.426000+08:00","text":"第二個，三大電信公司業者對於本身已有的消費者，應該用簡化的方式，讓消費者能夠進入到eSIM卡這個新的潮流。好。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:41.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:06:43.930000+08:00","text":"請林部長再回答，怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:06:45.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:02.414000+08:00","text":"就是剛才院長所講的，現有三大電信公司的客戶如果已經有SIM卡，他要再去買一個國外的eSIM卡，照理說應該會有一些方式，這個部分我們會跟NCC想辦法用技術的方式，協助NCC來處理。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:02.414000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:03.554000+08:00","text":"有辦法解決，是不是？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:03.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:04.574000+08:00","text":"我們會努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:04.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.375000+08:00","text":"應該是有辦法解決，但還要再開會。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:06.375000+08:00","text":"但務必要謹慎，務必要謹慎。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.515000+08:00","text":"是，務必要謹慎。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.515000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.515000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:06.515000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:05.915000+08:00","text":"謝謝謝委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:06.415000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:09.557857+08:00","text":"下一位請林俊憲委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}