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院長好 辛苦了院長這幾天最大的新聞可能就是醫美診所發現真恐偷拍的事件其實在這個事件發生之前行政院的公共政策民眾參與平台上面就有這樣一個連署反對真恐攝影機的普及在這個醫美診所事件發生以前"},{"start":59.899,"end":85.969,"text":"連署達到9304個是所有的民意關注度前三名第一名這前三名就是印度移工的問題寵物用藥的問題再來就是真空攝影機的問題表示民眾其實對這個事情早就非常的反感那我們來看看你隨便一抓最近發生的事情你看"},{"start":86.482,"end":101.105,"text":"高鐵的員工在台鐵的左營車站南廁所裝真孔偷拍台東有一家民宿還是得獎的好客民宿喔也在裡面偷裝這房間偷裝真孔"},{"start":101.758,"end":130.39,"text":"再來就是醫美診所現在發現好幾間都用假的煙霧偵測器用針孔藏在裡面偷拍還有你發現一個大學生偷拍補習班捷運站幾十個人受害在溫泉會館泡湯也被偷拍而且影片非常惡劣賣到暗網賣到創意師房賺了一百多萬被檢察官起訴還有台鐵北車員工廁所偷裝針孔"},{"start":132.446,"end":151.758,"text":"是內部自己員工 結果也被逮捕了我要跟院長分享 院長這個不是少數案件光是刑法妨害性隱私的這種刑案在2024年到2025年 前年跟去年就增加了72%"},{"start":153.652,"end":181.014,"text":"增加超過1000件2024年有1613件2025年有2770件這是妨礙性隱私案還沒有包括妨礙秘密案真孔攝影機非常可怕來我再給院長你看一下院長在你的左邊它是一個廁所方向鏡你的右邊是冷氣出風口你看得出來它有裝真孔嗎"},{"start":182.586,"end":210.399,"text":"當然看不出來來你看針孔我把你飆起來都有偷裝針孔針孔攝影機可怕就是你根本看不出來這一次發生的醫美診所他偷裝在哪裡煙霧偵測器你要看這個煙霧偵測器啊他裝在裡面還好啊有一個消費者他覺得奇怪因為小小的房間怎麼會裝兩個煙霧偵測器呢其中一個還裝在最角落他就覺得那個位置也不大對"},{"start":211.425,"end":239.743,"text":"他警覺信號才發現像這樣的煙霧偵測器我去找一下網路上隨便就有在賣才賣3470塊而且還免運費一模一樣網路隨時去買就買不到像這樣的煙霧偵測器他其實是有無線射頻照理講他賣要跟NCC申請但可惜國家目前完全沒有管制"},{"start":241.19,"end":269.441,"text":"現在民眾連署就是這個真恐攝影機的問題按照行政院的規定連署已經達到9000多個政府一定要回覆這個問題而且時間就是5月19我不知道院長你現在心目中有沒有答案對於真恐攝影機政府要不要來處理好 謝謝委員再度提醒近日影響社會治安跟隱私保障的很重大的一個案件的來源"},{"start":270.612,"end":298.347,"text":"本質是這個攝影機它本身本身它現在並不是違禁品但是它如果涉及到無線攝頻它就必須要接受我們相關機關的一些認證等等的選擇目前只有認證沒有管制任何人都買得到沒有管理第二就是平台上販賣如果到販賣這種有無線攝頻也沒有管理都可以啦我們現在要強化要做到這個部分"},{"start":299.366,"end":329.069,"text":"院長時間有限喔我認為有些東西我們要把它必須特別的管理現在就有政府對這些東西都有特別管理我舉例子喔SIM卡手機大哥蛋農藥肥料處方藥危險的化學物品像強酸強鹼或者是有一些合法的槍爆彈藥例如原住民使用或者運動使用這些政府怎麼管理實名制管理"},{"start":330.336,"end":359.414,"text":"我們台灣的農藥 我要肯定行政院 管理得非常好我們的農藥 誰在生產生產完 生產哪些東西生產完 給到一個經銷商哪些商店在買誰買走這些農藥百分之百 政府都有管理多年建立起來的一套流程我認為 真孔攝影機政府也應該要比照把它列為特殊物品應該要來進行管理"},{"start":359.912,"end":387.232,"text":"目前是完全沒有管理因為我在想啊如果我要買針孔攝影機我要做什麼你想得出如果你要買你什麼用途你會用到針孔攝影機我是在想不出我覺得一般的這個商業場所他如果要公然的那你裝監視器他必須有標示必須告知監視器那是另外一個合法使用用途的你針孔啊通常因為因為看不到嘛"},{"start":388.191,"end":415.53,"text":"他這種高度隱密性根本一般人不會察覺那我認為政府應該要用特殊的物品把它管理因為發生太多件我剛給院長看光是妨礙性隱私一年就增加72%增加1000多件我覺得我們應該要來思考修正電信管理辦法我們要把真孔攝影機也要把它實名制管理就誰要生產生產以後"},{"start":416.584,"end":436.673,"text":"你賣給誰就比照農藥這種特殊物品的這樣的一個流程誰生產在哪個店賣你要誰買走SIM卡也可以農藥肥料都有這樣的管理還有電商應該全部下架了我剛給你看的那個煙霧偵測器的針孔三千幾塊而已還有免運費所以平台不應該賣這個我覺得跨部會到蘇華部這種"},{"start":445.353,"end":466.453,"text":"平台的網路電腦也要來管理一下我們政府有些公共場域我們要先做最容易發生真空偷拍的就是一些交通場站我們目前也沒有SOP台鐵 高鐵 機場 閩南局的各機場我去調查訪問"},{"start":469.98,"end":498.661,"text":"每個禮拜的去檢查 也有每個月的還有每日募試 眼睛看著看著不可能嘛所以台鐵就有一個廁所等你抓到他偷裝 他已經存在九個月才被發現他是公共的廠站 交通運輸的廠站 公共廁所這是我們境外的或者是像一些旅宿業也常發生 觀光旅宿業"},{"start":499.56,"end":527.185,"text":"小寶柱曾經去稽查台灣21家旅宿有11家業者說他有自主執行反真孔結果這11家裡面其中有一家他自主執行是肉眼目測先扣掉根本就看不到第二個造假主流說有其實也沒有做所以大概21家只有9家有執行現在真孔這種已經造成民眾人心惶惶"},{"start":528.369,"end":550.125,"text":"現在很多人去公共場所或是在日本場所都拿手機這樣大幅度拍因為你的手機的那個照相機如果有針孔的話它會閃光它會偵測到紅外線的視頻所以現在民眾大家都拿手機在那裡掃來掃去你去住旅館房間或是進到一些公共廁所所以我認為這個問題"},{"start":552.116,"end":580.617,"text":"政府要嚴肅來看待是政府有義務免除民眾這種恐懼之餘所以我們必須要嚴格的來訂定一套管理的規要準謝謝院長那我要再跟你討論第二個問題之前我們在講高德地圖大家說高德地圖很危險因為他有九項的資料國安局講的喔國安局說他有九項的資料他會回傳給中國那其中啊也有民眾發現高德地圖他可以偵測到紅綠燈的跳描"},{"start":582.406,"end":609.596,"text":"所以如果我在總統府附近總統官邸或院長 行政院長 總院長的官邸附近我發現洪麗珍的控制秒數啊 異常平常是30秒 現在變成了一分半鐘那我知道院長要進出啦所以啊 高的地圖啊政府有警覺性 因為他來自中國中國的國家情報法 還有網路安全法他要求中國的廠商啊 有義務相關資料回饋給中共"},{"start":611.141,"end":632.067,"text":"所以我們現在的做法我認為還是比較消極啦就是禁止公務人員使用那公交單位也不能使用可是蘇華部長在這裡我們只注意到中國的地圖的這些資料那其他一般的呢五年前我也質詢過來我給左院長看一下"},{"start":632.831,"end":660.297,"text":"這張地圖有什麼你知道嗎這張是花蓮嘉山基地你現在手機拿起來在Google地圖你跟我一樣就可以拍到就可以看到嘉山地圖這麼清楚的圖像戰鬥機進出的山洞跑道的長度 彈尿褲 指揮所看得一清二楚我五年前就質詢說你這樣嘉山基地顧載人家看日基地可以這樣子嗎完全沒有改變"},{"start":662.947,"end":691.283,"text":"我再給你看院長你的左邊有模糊的這同樣都是拍嘉山基地還有一個花蓮基地在旁邊Apple的地圖Apple的地圖他把它遮起來了那右邊呢是就是那個Microsoft微軟的地圖還是一樣看得一清二楚這可見我們沒有管理哪有標準"},{"start":693.121,"end":721.836,"text":"為什麼蘋果的地圖遮起來為什麼微軟還有Google沒有遮起來那我們內政部做的台灣通用地圖這些東西都遮起來可見我們知道有些東西是不能被看到來我再給你看中國掌握中國一個網站你隨便看他分析我們台灣這是哪裡嘉義空軍基地那中國的網友甚至把我們空軍基地裡面的建築物幫我們標記出來空軍基地裡面的"},{"start":722.769,"end":752.152,"text":"彈尿褲女性官兵生活大樓他都知道空勤人員新建的他也知道新建的以前沒有吧生活大樓他也標記出來這樣可以嗎他正在嚇我們因為他有拍到憲兵使用一台V150他說那是老古董的裝甲車台灣還在用我問過空軍空軍跟我說他不能證實啦但是大方向沒錯啦好我再給"},{"start":752.895,"end":778.377,"text":"院長看一張照片你的照片左邊一群人在飛彈發射車前面拍照其中有一個人用青蛙圖把他臉遮起來那個人是誰賴清德總統因為這中國的網站用中國不准出現賴清德的面孔著弄他的面孔所以你哪出現在中國的網站地圖他會把你的臉遮起來賴清德的臉被遮起來了"},{"start":779.246,"end":799.867,"text":"但是中國網友很厲害他利用那個屋頂他推測出賴清德跟這些將領跟這些來賓拍的地方在台灣的清水營區你看有多可怕他用Google地圖這樣去推測賴清德在哪裡我再給你看Google地圖"},{"start":801.397,"end":828.996,"text":"中國利用Google地圖把我們所有的軍事基地連座標啦經緯度座標都要給你標記出來恆山指揮所啦大子營區啦叫海軍司令部中勇營區叫我們空軍司令部啦博愛營區啦通通給你標記出來可以這樣子嗎那為什麼國外的地圖蘋果就遮起來內政部的地圖也遮起來那其他蘋果跟維朗的地圖就隨便他看我們來看一下韓國"},{"start":831.964,"end":851.563,"text":"這韓國的地圖他規定全部要遮起來所以你的左邊是美軍基地韓服瑞銀右邊是韓國清華台他總統府的地圖我們來看法國法國也是法國是規定Google還有Bitmap就微軟還有Apple全部遮起來"},{"start":852.959,"end":879.18,"text":"跟委員報告 因為目前我們台灣事實上有法律可以管就是內政部的國土策略法對這方面應該有一些相關的規定謝謝委員提醒我們速發部會跟內政部去討論協商然後如果說這些都是我們有法源依據的話我們速發部就五年前就執行過我要提醒卓榮泰院長我們要趕快來進行管理像韓國 韓國原本是不准Google落地"},{"start":879.941,"end":894.886,"text":"Google地圖韓國人不能用那韓國最近有開放但是他有提出相關的限制軍事敏感設施啦還有限制性的地圖座標有些地方你不可以表示反正他就是有些地方敏感地方你全部不可以"},{"start":895.999,"end":925.305,"text":"顯露出來非常感謝委員委員今天這個提醒非常非常的重要我要求蘇法部對這些國際性的平台Apple可以做到其他沒有理由不做到我們強力要求他競速類要做有效的改善但中國的部分我覺得我們沒有辦法去約束他但是我們做好自己的準備中國的部分像高度他拍不到因為高度他沒有衛星他只有地圖圖資他現在還沒有像這個Apple還有那個"},{"start":926.226,"end":926.446,"text":"謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:30.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:40.759000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，本席邀請我們行政院卓院長、數發部的林部長、NCC的陳代理主委。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:40.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:42.860000+08:00","text":"卓院長請備詢，林部長還有陳代理主委請備詢。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:48.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:48.747000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:49.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:50.128000+08:00","text":"院長好，辛苦了。不會。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:50.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:07:57.131000+08:00","text":"院長，這幾天最大的新聞可能就是醫美診所發現針孔偷拍的事件。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:07:58.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:08:11.738000+08:00","text":"其實在這個事件發生之前，行政院的公共政策民眾參與平臺上面就有這樣一個連署，反對針孔攝影機的普及。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:08:12.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:08:36.527000+08:00","text":"在這個醫美診所事件發生以前，連署人數就達到9,304個，是所有民意關注度前三名，前三名就是印度移工的問題、寵物用藥的問題，再來就是針孔攝影機的問題，表示民眾其實對這個事情早就非常的反感。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:08:37.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:09:30.908000+08:00","text":"我們來看，隨便一抓最近發生的事情，你看，高鐵的員工在臺鐵的新左營車站男廁所裝針孔偷拍；臺東有一間民宿，還是得獎的「好客民宿」，也在房間偷裝針孔；再來就是醫美診所，現在發現有好幾間，都用假的煙霧偵測器內藏針孔偷拍；還有發現一個大學生偷拍補習班、捷運站，幾十個人受害；在溫泉會館泡湯也被偷拍，而且非常惡劣，還將影片賣到暗網、賣到創意私房，賺了一百多萬，被檢察官起訴；還有臺鐵北車員工廁所偷裝針孔，是內部自己的員工，結果也被逮捕了。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:09:33.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:03.143000+08:00","text":"我要跟院長分享，院長，這個不是少數案件，光是刑法妨害性隱私的刑案，在2024年跟2025年（前年跟去年）就增加了72%，增加超過1,000件，2024年有1,613件，2025年有2,770件，這是妨害性隱私案，還沒有包括妨害秘密案。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:04.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:17.014000+08:00","text":"針孔攝影機非常可怕，我再給院長看一下，院長，在你的左邊是一個廁所芳香劑，你的右邊是冷氣出風口，你看得出來它有裝針孔嗎？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:18.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:19.406000+08:00","text":"當然看不出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:19.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:24.289000+08:00","text":"你看，我把裝針孔處標起來，都有偷裝針孔。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:25.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:32.432000+08:00","text":"針孔攝影機的可怕就是你根本看不出來，這一次發生事件的醫美診所是偷裝在哪裡？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:32.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:42.077000+08:00","text":"煙霧偵測器，你來看這個煙霧偵測器，它是裝在裡面，還好有一個消費者他覺得奇怪，因為小小的房間怎麼會裝兩個煙霧偵測器？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:42.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:10:49.606000+08:00","text":"其中一個還裝在最角落，他就覺得那個位置也不大對，他的警覺性高才發現。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:10:49.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:11:03.235000+08:00","text":"像這樣的煙霧偵測器，我去找一下，網路上隨便就有在賣，才賣3,470塊，而且還免運費，一模一樣，網路隨時去買就買得到。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:11:04.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:11:15.723000+08:00","text":"像這樣的煙霧偵測器，其實是有無線射頻，照理講如果要賣，要跟NCC申請，但可惜國家目前完全沒有管制。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:11:17.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:11:30.195000+08:00","text":"現在民眾連署的就是針孔攝影機的問題，按照行政院的規定，連署已經達到九千多個，政府一定要回復這個問題，而且時間就是5月19日。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:11:31.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:11:36.698000+08:00","text":"我不知道院長你現在心目中有沒有答案，對於針孔攝影機，政府要不要來處理？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:11:38.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:11:58.879000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員再度提醒近日影響社會治安跟隱私保障很重大的案件來源，本質是這個攝影機本身現在並不是違禁品，但是如果涉及到無線射頻，就必須要接受我們相關機關的一些認證等等，就是……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:00.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:02.641000+08:00","text":"目前只有認證，沒有管制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:02.641000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:03.641000+08:00","text":"這是通傳會的權責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:02.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:04.722000+08:00","text":"任何人都買得到，沒有管理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:04.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:09.444000+08:00","text":"第二個就是平臺上販賣，如果他販賣這種有無線射頻的……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:09.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:10.005000+08:00","text":"也沒有管理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:12.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:14.327000+08:00","text":"那就必須要管制，我們現在要強化、要做到這個部分。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:15.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:16.227000+08:00","text":"院長，時間有限。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:17.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:43.628000+08:00","text":"我認為有些東西我們必須把它做特別的管理，現在就有，政府對這些東西都有特別管理，舉例來說，手機、大哥大的SIM卡、農藥、肥料、處方藥、危險的化學物品（像強酸、強鹼），或者是有一些合法的槍砲彈藥，例如原住民使用或者運動使用，這些政府怎麼管理？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:44.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:12:45.049000+08:00","text":"實名制管理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:12:46.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:03.387000+08:00","text":"像我們臺灣的農藥，我要肯定行政院，管理得非常好，我們的農藥誰在生產；生產完，生產哪些東西；生產之後給哪個經銷商；哪些商店在賣；誰買走這些農藥，百分之百政府都有管理。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:03.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:06.368000+08:00","text":"這是多年建立起來的一套流程。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:06.368000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:07.489000+08:00","text":"管理得非常好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:07.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:17.173000+08:00","text":"我認為針孔攝影機政府也應該要比照，把它列為特殊物品，應該要來進行管理，目前是完全沒有管理。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:18.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:22.517000+08:00","text":"我在想，如果我要買針孔攝影機，我要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:23.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:26.580000+08:00","text":"如果你要買，什麼用途會用到針孔攝影機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:26.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:27.200000+08:00","text":"我實在想不出來。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:27.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:30.723000+08:00","text":"我覺得一般的商業場所，如果要公然地裝設……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:31.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:32.264000+08:00","text":"那你裝監視器……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:32.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:34.846000+08:00","text":"必須有標示，必須告知。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:35.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:35.867000+08:00","text":"對，監視器……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:36.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:38.869000+08:00","text":"那是另外一個合法使用用途的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:13:39.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:13:59.782000+08:00","text":"關於針孔，因為看不到，這種是具高度隱秘性，一般人根本不會察覺，我認為政府應該要視為特殊的物品來把它管理，因為發生太多件了，我剛剛給院長看了，光是妨害性隱私案，一年就增加72%，增加一千多件。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:14:00.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:14:23.569000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們應該要來思考修正電信管理法，也要把針孔攝影機實名制管理，就是誰要生產、生產以後賣給誰，就比照農藥這種特殊物品這樣的流程，包括誰生產、在哪個店賣、誰買走，SIM卡也可以，農藥、肥料都有這樣的管理。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:14:24.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:14:31.072000+08:00","text":"還有，電商應該全部下架，我剛剛給你看的煙霧偵測器的針孔，三千多元而已，還免運費，所以平臺不應該賣。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:14:31.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:14:43.215000+08:00","text":"我覺得跨部會、數發部對於這種平臺的網路商店也要來管理一下。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:14:43.215000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:14:47.259000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:14:47.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:14:58.569000+08:00","text":"就算還沒修法以前，政府有些公共場域要先做，最容易發生針孔偷拍的就是一些交通場站，我們目前也沒有SOP。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:14:59.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:12.104000+08:00","text":"臺鐵、高鐵、機場、民航局轄下各機場，我去調查訪問，有每個禮拜去檢查的，也有每個月的，還有每日「目視」，用眼睛看看得出來？騙誰？","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:14.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:14.446000+08:00","text":"這根本不可能嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:15.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:29.717000+08:00","text":"所以臺鐵就有一個廁所，等你抓到他偷裝，它已經存在9個月了才被發現，那是交通運輸場站的公共廁所，這是政府要做的！","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:30.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:49.783000+08:00","text":"或者是一些旅宿業也常發生，就是觀光旅宿業，消保處曾經去稽查，臺灣21家旅宿有11家業者說有自主執行反針孔，結果這11家裡面，其中有1家的自主執行是肉眼目測，先扣掉！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:50.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:51.603000+08:00","text":"因為根本就看不到！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:52.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:53.323000+08:00","text":"第二個，造假！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:55.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:55.924000+08:00","text":"資料說有，其實也沒做。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:56.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:15:58.584000+08:00","text":"所以大概21家只有9家有執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:15:59.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:03.185000+08:00","text":"現在針孔這種已經造成民眾人心惶惶！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:03.185000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:04.369000+08:00","text":"院長，你知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:04.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:24.364000+08:00","text":"現在很多人去公共場所或者進去廁所，都會拿手機這樣到處拍，因為手機上的照相機如果發現針孔，它會有閃光，它會偵測到紅外線的視頻，所以現在民眾都拿著手機在那邊掃來掃去，就是去旅館進到房間，還是進入一些公共廁所的時候。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:25.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:29.317000+08:00","text":"所以我認為這個問題，政府要嚴肅來看待。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:29.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:39.204000+08:00","text":"是，政府有義務免除民眾這種恐懼之虞，所以我們必須要嚴格訂定一套管理的標準。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:39.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:39.805000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:39.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:16:52.854000+08:00","text":"我要再跟你討論第二個問題，之前我們在講高德地圖，大家都說高德地圖很危險，國安局說它有9項資料會回傳給中國。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:16:52.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:11.531000+08:00","text":"其中也有民眾發現高德地圖可以偵測到紅綠燈的跳秒，所以如果我在總統府附近、總統官邸或行政院卓院長的官邸附近，發現紅綠燈的控制秒數異常，平常是30秒，現在變成1分半鐘，那我就知道院長要進出了。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:14.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:24.735000+08:00","text":"對於高德地圖，政府有警覺性，因為它來自中國，中國的國家情報法還有網路安全法要求中國的廠商有義務……蒐集。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:24.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:25.576000+08:00","text":"將相關資料回饋給中共。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:27.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:34.163000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在的做法，我認為還是比較消極，就是禁止公務人員使用，公家單位也不能使用。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:37.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:44.166000+08:00","text":"數發部部長也在這裡，可是我們只注意到中國的地圖這些資料，其他一般的呢？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:45.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:51.572000+08:00","text":"5年前我也質詢過，來，我給卓院長看一下，這張地圖是什麼你知道嗎？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:51.572000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:17:52.572000+08:00","text":"你看得懂嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:17:51.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:09.195000+08:00","text":"這一張是花蓮佳山基地，你現在手機拿起來看Google地圖，跟我一樣，你就可以看到佳山地圖這麼清楚的圖像，戰鬥機進出的山洞、跑道的長度、彈藥庫、指揮所，看得一清二楚！","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:09.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:15.697000+08:00","text":"我5年前就質詢過，佳山基地就這樣任人觀看，軍事基地可以這樣子嗎？","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:15.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:16.297000+08:00","text":"到現在完全沒有改變！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:18.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:42.360000+08:00","text":"我再給你看，院長你的左邊有模糊的地圖，這同樣都是拍佳山基地，還有一個花蓮基地在旁邊，Apple的地圖有把它遮起來，右邊那個是Microsoft微軟的Bing地圖，還是一樣看得一清二楚！","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:43.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:47.263000+08:00","text":"可見我們沒有管理，我們沒有一個標準！","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:49.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:51.783000+08:00","text":"為什麼蘋果的地圖遮起來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:51.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:18:54.104000+08:00","text":"為什麼微軟，還有Google沒有遮起來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:18:54.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:19:01.447000+08:00","text":"我們內政部做的臺灣通用地圖，這些東西都遮起來了，可見我們知道有些東西是不能被看到的！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:19:02.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:19:26.075000+08:00","text":"來，我再給你看，中國有一個網站，你隨便看，它分析我們臺灣的嘉義空軍基地，中國的網友甚至幫我們把空軍基地裡面的建築物標記出來，包括空軍基地裡面的彈藥庫、女性官兵生活大樓，他都知道，還有新建的空勤人員大樓，他也知道是新建的，以前沒有吧！","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:19:26.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:19:30.818000+08:00","text":"連生活大樓他也標記出來，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:19:30.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:19:38.845000+08:00","text":"他甚至還笑我們，因為他有拍到憲兵使用一臺V-150，他說那是老古董的裝甲車，臺灣還在用。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:19:39.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:19:42.728000+08:00","text":"我問過空軍這張是真的嗎？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:19:42.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:19:46.470000+08:00","text":"空軍跟我說他不能證實，但是大方向沒錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:19:47.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:20:02.887000+08:00","text":"好，我再給院長看一張照片，照片左邊有一群人在飛彈發射車前面拍照，其中有一個人用青蛙圖把他的臉遮起來，那個人是誰？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:20:02.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:20:14.357000+08:00","text":"是賴清德總統，因為這是在中國的網站使用，中國不准出現賴清德及卓榮泰的面孔，所以他們如果出現在中國的網站地圖，網站會把他們的臉遮起來，所以賴清德的臉被遮起來了。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:20:15.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:20:30.902000+08:00","text":"但是中國的網友很厲害，他利用照片中的屋頂推測出賴清德跟這些將領及來賓拍照的地方，是在臺灣的清水營區，你看有多可怕！","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:20:31.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:20:34.986000+08:00","text":"他用Google地圖就可以推測賴清德在哪裡。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:20:34.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:20:55.869000+08:00","text":"我再給你看Google地圖，中國利用Google地圖，把我們所有軍事基地的座標及經緯度都標記出來，包括衡山指揮所、大直營區（海軍司令部）、忠勇營區（空軍司令部）、博愛營區通通都標記出來，可以這樣子嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:20:56.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:21:03.354000+08:00","text":"為什麼國外的地圖，蘋果會遮起來，內政部的地圖也遮起來，但是其他蘋果以外跟微軟的地圖就隨便大家觀看？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:21:04.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:21:27.563000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下韓國的地圖，韓國規定全部要遮起來，所以在左邊是美軍基地韓福瑞營，右邊是韓國青瓦臺總統府的地圖；我們來看法國，法國也是規定Google、微軟的Bing Map，還有Apple要全部遮起來。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:21:28.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:21:42.130000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，事實上目前臺灣有法律可以管，就是內政部的國土測繪法對這方面應該有相關的規定，謝謝委員提醒，我們數發部會跟內政部去討論協商……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:21:42.130000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:21:43.191000+08:00","text":"現在都看得到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:21:43.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:21:46.914000+08:00","text":"如果有法源依據的話，數發部就會通知這些……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:21:47.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:21:52.018000+08:00","text":"我5年前就質詢過，我要提醒卓榮泰院長，我們要趕快進行管理。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:21:52.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:12.859000+08:00","text":"像韓國原本是不准Google落地，韓國人不能用Google地圖，韓國最近開放，但是有提出相關的限制，包括軍事敏感設施還有限制性的地圖座標等地方不可以標示，反正有些敏感的區域全部都不可以顯露出來……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:12.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:14.740000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:14.740000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:15.740000+08:00","text":"但是臺灣目前毫無管理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:14.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:26.522000+08:00","text":"委員今天這個提醒非常非常地重要，我要求數發部對這些國際性的平台，因為Apple可以做到，其他平台沒有理由不做到，我們強力要求他們儘速做有效的改善。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:27.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:33.603000+08:00","text":"但是中國的部分我們沒有辦法去約束他，我們做好自己的準備，中國的部分……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:33.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:41.145000+08:00","text":"像高德它拍不到，因為高德沒有衛星，只有地圖圖資，現在還沒有……像Apple還有Google他們是因為有衛星，所以特別敏感及危險。","quality":0.544},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:41.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:42.145000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，高德的地圖是跟荷蘭一家公司叫HERE Technologies買的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:42.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:43.145000+08:00","text":"它跟荷蘭買的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:43.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:44.145000+08:00","text":"所以我們必須想辦法跟他們溝通，跟那家公司……","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"林委員俊憲","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:44.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:45.145000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長也注意到這個問題，謝謝。","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:45.145000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:46.145000+08:00","text":"我們會儘快而且我要求拿出效率來，儘快跟委員答復，也讓社會更安心，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:42.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:42.446000+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:42.946000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:22:52.374571+08:00","text":"下一位魯明哲委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:22:52.674571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:23:50.960286+08:00","text":"一、針對台鐵桃園至中壢段路線切換工程引發之交通爭議，行政院與交通部應正視現行法規之重大缺失，雖然該工程範圍侷限於鐵路路權內，依規無須向地方政府報備交通維持計畫，但實務上鐵路運行之慢行管控已產生強烈外部效應，導致內壢平交道出現嚴重癱瘓，甚至發生民眾因誤點連等七班火車之民怨，顯見現行制度存有行政盲區，即交通部不應以符合程序為由推諉責任，而應針對此類足以衝擊站外路網動向之工程，強制要求施工單位事先與地方政府進行橫向協商並納入交維審查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:23:51.260286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:24:08.688857+08:00","text":"建請未來凡涉及火車降速或任何可能影響周邊交通之軌道工程，必須建立完善的跨部會溝通平台，絕不可讓施工便利建立在民眾的通勤痛苦之上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:24:08.988857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:24:16.417429+08:00","text":"建請有關部會補強相關行政準則，並落實整體之交通衝擊評估。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:24:16.717429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:25:15.288857+08:00","text":"二、關於桃園機場捷運產權移轉案，行政院既已於一一四年七月二十四日函文核定對價方案，桃園市政府亦展現高度誠意，於今年（115年）一月即完備財政程序撥付資金，然交通部與鐵道局卻於執行層面陷入技術性卡關，嚴重損及中央與地方之行政互信；目前移轉進度面臨開發財產核定遲滯，以及系統財產清冊與點交現況不符之雙重障礙，然桃園市民絕不能接受中央採剝離式移轉，意即僅將沈重之系統維修重擔移轉地方，卻將具備收益潛力之開發財產無限期擱置，此舉實為對地方財政之變相剝削。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:25:15.588857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:25:28.446000+08:00","text":"建請盡速完成讓售計畫書之核定，並提出明確之移轉時間表，用以確保桃園捷運公司之健全營運與財政公平。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:25:28.746000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:26:20.174571+08:00","text":"三、中壢郵局改建案作為桃園精華區資產活化之指標，自一一○年動工以來進度嚴重滯後，原定一一五年一月完工，現實際進度竟僅約五成二（115年三月），此種行政效能低落之現狀令人質疑，且該案早已完成商辦與影城之招商，若因工期大幅延宕導致起租日遙遙無期，將嚴重影響區域發展，中壢郵局改建不僅是郵政業務現代化，更是帶動中壢都市更新之關鍵引擎，政府應正視工程進度嚴重落後之危機，嚴防該建築成為合約爭議下之蚊子館。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員魯明哲書面質詢","start":"2026-05-12T16:26:20.474571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:26:31.903143+08:00","text":"要求相關單位務必如期如質完成該案，切勿因行政怠慢而使精華區土地淪為地方發展之負資產。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:26:32.203143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:26:42.203143+08:00","text":"報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已詢答完畢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:26:42.503143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:26:46.503143+08:00","text":"下次會議繼續進行交通組之質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:26:46.803143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:26:47.946000+08:00","text":"現在散會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-12T16:26:48.246000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-12T16:26:49.388857+08:00","text":"散會（16時23分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}