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謝謝那個我剛才聽到前兩位委員對院長跟部長的質詢跟我的風格不一樣我等一下會講兩個笑話請院長跟部長要仔細聽這個我個人在"},{"start":65.523,"end":93.501,"text":"柯前主席他被搜索的時候我一直在懷疑搜索票憑什麼證據去申請到搜索票那後來柯主席被起訴以後我去看那個證據都是柯文主席被搜索以後取得的證據所以很顯然去搜索柯主席的時候"},{"start":94.745,"end":118.96,"text":"並沒有合理懷疑的證據那麼我要問一個公平性的問題也就是說我在擔任第八屆立委的時候有一件事情院長跟部長不知道有一天蘇政卿委員找了一個李恆隆董事長來找我那麼到我辦公室來"},{"start":120.936,"end":148.8,"text":"李恆隆董事長他拿一個判決書給我看他說委員我受到冤屈我所投資的太流被徐旭東增資結果那個增資是未照判決也已經確定結果現在徐旭東仍然是收購的董事長"},{"start":150.307,"end":176.289,"text":"希望我能夠替他伸冤我從事立法委員工作我兩個原則第一個公益我做第二個失意如果受委屈我服務但是你如果失意你要好要更好的對不起我沒有時間所以我跟李恆隆跟蘇貞謙委員就跟他報告說我在成大交公司法沒有錯這個公司法388條為什麼會採"},{"start":180.708,"end":206.417,"text":"實質審查那為什麼我們經濟部會用刑事審查我把這個條文從德國法怎麼樣到日本法那日本的行政官因為不像德國有登記法官所以他沒辦法實質審查只能用刑事審查而我國經濟部也就是採日本刑事審查的制度因為現在公司的登記案件太多那我個人只要是法律問題"},{"start":207.642,"end":234.75,"text":"你來跟我討論我絕對提供服務因為你也是算我的選民那麼那一年第八屆立委的時候大概我記得是過年的期間我收到了施政卿委員送來了一箱屏東黑珍珠的蓮霧我黑珍珠的蓮霧吃完以後覺得非常好吃我整個箱子翻遍了"},{"start":236.065,"end":264.879,"text":"幾乎翻透底了裡面沒有錢裡面沒有錢所以院長你也知道要笑後來到第九屆立委的時候徐永明陳唐山幾個委員被收手就是泰劉的案件因為涉嫌去施壓經濟部要來修改要來改變"},{"start":266.277,"end":293.954,"text":"徐濟松董事長的名稱那這件事情我那時候才說原來我當時吃了那一箱黑珍之靈物是叫做自有的滋味我如果收到幾萬塊我下次就是被收手但是各位陳唐山被收手後來沒做一碼沒起訴那麼徐永明也被收手但是各位你看當時"},{"start":295.851,"end":322.493,"text":"李恆隆在北極組的詢問筆錄這個筆錄怎麼流出來我不知道網路上可以找得到但是非法律人讀不懂那我讀懂了他裡面提到三次台南市長黃偉哲剛當選第一次講說大咖的黃偉哲然後第二次"},{"start":324.194,"end":349.059,"text":"講到黃偉哲包括蘇政卿所以蘇政卿是被包括的黃偉哲是在蘇政卿之前黃偉哲包括蘇政卿在跑就是跑這一條然後第三次講到黃偉哲收他一百萬我當時沒有立法委員的身份我開記者會把這個事實打出來我認為這個應該要調查"},{"start":352.315,"end":375.608,"text":"到現在也沒有人跟我起訴說我誣告說我誣賴他沒有我現在有言論免責權我今天要來請教院長柯文哲主席沒有證據就被搜索而黃偉哲的證據這麼的明確卻沒有搜索這樣公平嗎我們執法這樣公平嗎在這裡"},{"start":382.864,"end":410.91,"text":"照道理講不應該談論一個個案的內容委員談的那幾個事情那對牽扯到的多位的當事人現在都還在社會上會受到公平那如果真的有事證那應該委員可以循政堂的管道我知道院長會這麼打我所以我行非上樑不正下樑歪這個不是因為上樑不正下樑歪這是因為我們"},{"start":412.031,"end":438.269,"text":"身為總統行政院長普辭為經舉足為法均忍者倒名以正軌不軌無誤不軌不誤百官相知所以檢察官會在個案兩個個案這樣不公平的處理那表示是這上面的問題所以我們必須要倒名以正軌"},{"start":439.42,"end":466.257,"text":"所以我今天來這裡質詢檢察官的作為並不是上面的問題現在檢察官都是獨立在偵辦案件他有發現真實的這個責任的權利我也知道院長會講這個問題等一下我們會講檢查議題的問題檢查議題的問題那是人事司法上的行政的議題那不是辦案間間司法的議題這兩個案子很顯然在處理上非常不公平沒有證據卻搜索"},{"start":468.005,"end":493.65,"text":"這麼明確證據卻沒有搜索所以這個對國人而言沒辦法接受委員這個個案的一個問題我們是尊重辦案單位跟法院的一個決定而且這個檢察官要申請搜索這必須經過法院的一個審核是沒錯那我們不是承辦人我對兩個個案我也不是那麼清楚這些個案的裡面證據法官審酌的一個標準"},{"start":495.63,"end":517.521,"text":"不過我相信因為個案也不能夠比較沒有說A案跟B案是一樣沒有同相同的案例而且每個案件的案情案情也不同證據的法案不同然後這沒辦法去做A案跟B案的一個做一個比較而且這個最重要就是有經過法院的一個審核"},{"start":518.001,"end":523.008,"text":"我知道 但是你們要申請搜索票你要申請搜索票所以這個不是說哪一個單位 辦案單位獨端這個是經過法院的一個審核要申請搜索票要我回法議不是嗎"},{"start":530.47,"end":550.587,"text":"所以這個法院我們相信法院的一個公正依照法律的確信然後針對個案來做一個具體的一個核票的我想這就是一個制衡的一個作用我想委員你是老師你也是法律學老師我想你對這案件很清楚每個個案都不同而且你說個案跟通例我想我們是在講"},{"start":551.627,"end":580.408,"text":"討論通案通例的事情我們討論那個理論的問題我們不要去討論個案因為個案我們不是承辦人我們沒辦法就個案的表示這是一個制度性的公平性的問題所以個案個案的不是一個如果從個案的個案裡面去討出一個通案一個通則那我們可以來討論那表示說這個在通則上我們法務部在這裡有檢查議題的問題等一下我會談那麼兩位都是我法學的前輩我雖然頭髮比各位白"},{"start":581.987,"end":607.578,"text":"我頭髮這麼白各位如果看我第八屆立委進來的時候我的頭髮是黑色的我當兩年立委以後頭髮變白我第一次進立法院就碰到會計法修正案我一個人擋這個會計法修正案後來我們同仁有被判刑三年六個月入獄"},{"start":608.277,"end":637.78,"text":"是因為我一個人擋下來我為什麼這麼堅持法律各位我要講第二個笑話我不可能在非法律系之人之前的前面讓我們法律人來丟臉因為我受恩於法律人對我的照顧我自己是台大政治系國際關係組畢業我本來是想要當顧維鈞、蔣廷甫這種外交官但是我去"},{"start":638.854,"end":654.274,"text":"考外交特考的時候,別人是不去考,叫做逃兵我是被外交部以國文不及格,不予入局所以我也是逃兵,只是我的逃是被淘汰的逃"},{"start":655.461,"end":681.17,"text":"所以我對法律人有一份很深的感情對法律有非常執著的這個厚愛所以我絕對不會去為了要來羞辱各位或是今天為了上媒體來講一些不公平的話偵查真的要公平不然你沒辦法服眾那麼剛才兩位長輩提到通案的問題"},{"start":682.557,"end":711.824,"text":"各位這個就是檢查一體的問題因為院長您要做答覆我已經預測到所以我的手板也不是剛才做檢查一體的問題我要來質詢大概部長院長會答什麼話我大概有一個預測檢查一體的問題我們必須要有一個檢查總長全國指揮調度相同的標準檢查總長對我們國家的司法制度的重要性"},{"start":712.813,"end":738.97,"text":"不可一日或缺 我們都瞭解但是他是獨任制跟NCC委員 跟公平衛委員跟我們的其他的委員以及考試院 監察院其他的不需不是行政院體系的他們不同在於檢察總長他的人事權"},{"start":740.506,"end":740.706,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":766.089,"end":769.412,"text":"您的答案也被我抓到了這個是儲物規則的內部的行政規則對外沒有效力的"},{"start":788.379,"end":809.258,"text":"也就是說 不適合總統去用這個條文這個條文不適合總統不能根據這個條文而且這個是跟委員報告這是循例辦理的沒有 這個循例你一循例我們立法院被架空了不是嗎沒有 這個以前檢察總長有出缺有循例辦理這個在2010年的時候"},{"start":813.112,"end":819.9,"text":"當時候的總長陳聰明見到總長他辭職所以就代理有曾永夫跟林協德"},{"start":824.028,"end":849.341,"text":"主任檢察官兩個代理中長這個他們的代理的時候的法定的職權全部都是運作如常那另外還有在2014年檢察中長也出缺也是由臨接的主任檢察來代理那在提了非常上述也提了50幾件所以前後總共提了100多件這個他的職權的一個行使都經過最高法院的肯認"},{"start":850.752,"end":862.503,"text":"而且這個事實在馬前總統他那時候指定的曾永福跟林協哲主任檢察來代理我們這次代理是循例辦理部長這是惡例"},{"start":863.755,"end":882.586,"text":"也就是說要被推翻的權利不能夠再繼續因為我們根據法院組織法一定要指定代理沒有代理沒辦法最高檢察署沒辦法運作我們人民的訴訟權委員你是法律專家我們人民的訴訟權我們人民的權利要擺在最前列我完全清楚"},{"start":883.366,"end":909.012,"text":"這才是最重要的憲法是規定民眾的人民的國民的訴訟權要接受要保障所以呢我們來指定這個代理人來進行最高檢察總長來檢察總長的職權這個是非常合理的我想不管是哪一個政黨不在這種情形都是會指定代理來執行這些檢察總長的職權部長說的這個就是重點人民的權利一日沒有檢察總長"},{"start":910.6,"end":912.201,"text":"我們法院組織法第66條四項檢查總長如果出缺不能試試"},{"start":941.216,"end":966.137,"text":"這時候總統應該要三個月內提名人選到立法院來尋求通過所以我們66條沒有明文的禁止這個指定代理人但是也沒有明文的同意所以我就從法理上來請教兩位如果沒有經過我們同意"},{"start":967.301,"end":983.464,"text":"就可以長期的代理我們才代理一個禮拜之前之前的有過很久的那這個時候所以部長你覺得也不能夠太久對不對所以一個禮拜是不能太久嗎沒有 現在"},{"start":985.134,"end":1002.521,"text":"委員在講說大概太久我跟委員講說目前是5月8號才開始代理現在是5月今天是5月15號嘛再代理一個禮拜那我跟你講委員你提到說法院組織法66條第二項是因故出缺或無法適時的情形那是一個情形"},{"start":1003.041,"end":1020.507,"text":"那這個有沒有包括認滿結束因為人事同意簽沒有通過只有這樣我想這是以理委員你的法律上的一個高度跟你的學問我相信你可以知道這是不是一個法律上這是沒有規定的所以這部分我們是可以來研究"},{"start":1021.207,"end":1042.435,"text":"但是我相信你用一個禮拜這個要再討論這個問題我認為是所以我剛才講說一日或缺您的答案我已經預估到你會這麼講我想這個答案這個答案你大概會清楚因為我相信法律上沒有這麼明文的規定他代理的多久你能不能給我一個多餘的我也希望大院能夠同意"},{"start":1044.056,"end":1060.629,"text":"能夠審核同意的是因為徐代理長總長他的我們那時候有這個提名他是在我們檢查業界是非常的生育非常好的他的專業能力他的品質超熟他的學歷經歷他是非常的一個傑出的所以我必須要做一個謝謝委員給我這個機會做一個說明"},{"start":1062.503,"end":1086.285,"text":"我也請委員理解一件事情包括NCC跟中選會的委員行政院也提出了人選被否決的大部分被否決所以我剛剛說我在檢討的是這些人為什麼被否決我要提出跟他們完全不一樣的人才有可能不被否決啊現在我要提出一個跟他不一樣的人我要去找這些跟他完全不一樣的人背景、學歷、經歷我是不考慮他們的政黨立場的"},{"start":1087.466,"end":1095.118,"text":"但是來到立法院在審查的時候是用政黨立場在考慮他我必須要做很多的考量這是行政院的苦我的困難在這裡"},{"start":1096.877,"end":1126.219,"text":"所以我們在檢查總長部長有沒有辦法承諾一個時間提名的兩次全部都否決掉我相信提名大法官的這些人選我想老師也那個委員你都認識了你們滿多認識的我想他們的學問他們的風評他們在業界裡面的一種的崇高的地位我相信以委員你在法學上的一種的一個長久的觀察跟相處我相信你應該很清楚但是都是很可惜"},{"start":1127.68,"end":1140.153,"text":"如果部長您稍微提到大法官的人選我可以跟您保證裡面有幾個非常不適當那我不想去講重情形我們回到這個政府以來因為他願意要審核"},{"start":1150.996,"end":1175.943,"text":"完美化大院的一個省院長跟部長能不能給本席一個承諾我們徐總長他代理時間大概要多久這個總長的人選的提出是總統府方作業那部長 法律規定三個月部長跟行政院我們如果能夠善盡到提醒我們會提醒但是這個是府方作業法律規定"},{"start":1177.335,"end":1184.036,"text":"第四項規定總統必須三個月內提出人選經立法院通過所以是不是代理期間我們三個月就好"},{"start":1185.165,"end":1214.154,"text":"法律是如此規定我想大家都清楚法律是規定說總統三個月內這個這個法律上的一個問題這是因故出缺或無法實施譬如我舉例就譬如說因為他正好辭職就像以前的錢裡有辭職的或者是無法實施的情況譬如說他他是不是有某些的事情部長你花園沒有時間限制我花園有時間限制但是我提供一個解釋那這一件的話是一個認滿認滿不是因故出缺他是認滿你能不能承諾三個月內"},{"start":1215.595,"end":1243.217,"text":"代理期間三個月內法律的規定大家都清楚那規定那個太陽太陽我覺得剛剛部長有說過了是初缺還是六滿是不一樣的是太陽是不一樣的總統要三個月內提名結果代理超過三個月合理嗎那三個月就是我們認為總統應該在三個月內找出適當的人選然後這段期間代理不是嗎"},{"start":1244.858,"end":1272.453,"text":"一定是這樣的法律那個法律是這樣能夠做到被提名來當檢察總長在法界現在服務的人也是寥寥可數那我們把最好的人選提出來卻用一種到現在大家還不是很清楚的理由就被否決掉所以我想總統跟我一樣都陷入到這種苦思我們要怎麼提下一個人中興大學的老師的書籍我都讀所以您在這麼好的教育環境之下受到"},{"start":1274.044,"end":1299.781,"text":"賴總統非常肯定我相信您跟他做個報告總統應該會同意三個月可以不可以我說剛剛說過這個剛剛部長說過這個太陽不一樣但法律的規定是清楚的但太陽不一樣那我們會跟總統提醒討論這個事情這沒有錯好謝謝那這樣的話我第三題因為我們都是法律人"},{"start":1301.206,"end":1330.569,"text":"我提出的問題都是法律問題那兩位也比較容易回答也就是我們這個不附屬的問題不附屬根據我們中華民國憲法這個附屬權在37條總統要行政院長附屬才能夠公布法律那麼我們在原來的徵修條文之前的就57條是規定說如果"},{"start":1332.116,"end":1360.509,"text":"這個互譯沒有通過要辭職或應急接受那我們徵修條文第三條只有應急接受省去辭職兩個字那我在學習法學我一直覺得要來了解他所以今天剛好有院長跟部長都是法學界的前輩我來請教兩位也就是說不附屬不附屬他"},{"start":1362.1,"end":1388.249,"text":"變成我們的法律就這樣可以不公布那立法院代表全國人民是民意的表徵那變成只有一兩個人一個人不附屬一個人不公布全國兩千三百萬的同胞所選的立法委員所通過的法律案那就不能實施這樣是一個民主的方式嗎"},{"start":1389.537,"end":1405.866,"text":"我常常說過包括提出復議或者不附屬就行政院的立場來講都是被動的在過去行政院長畢竟立法院同意的那個時代憲法的規定跟現在是不一樣的所以現在把同意權拿掉之後所以賦予行政院長"},{"start":1407.407,"end":1434.084,"text":"對於賦予之後他要接受他就沒有其他的選項但是憲法這一個37條他所說的不附屬在修正條憲法修正的時候並沒有被拿掉留下來就必定有他憲法的作用而不是形同句文就是給行政院長若是立法院通過的是一個違反憲法的"},{"start":1435.026,"end":1461.154,"text":"是一個危害國家安全的破壞財政紀律的不經過民主程序討論的行政院長就有這個權利這個權利不是在制衡總統的總統跟行政院長在經過立法院同意之後的院長沒有所謂制衡的問題院長很顯然你提到這一點違反了三權分立立法 司法 行政"},{"start":1461.454,"end":1485.159,"text":"就是立法院違反三權婚禮侵犯行政權沒有啦 行政權不可以壓迫立法權但立法院可以替行政權編預算嗎我沒有這個法律案違憲的問題啊這個可以申請釋憲 那是司法權那麼行政院要不要附屬這是行政權本院要不要立法是立法權立法不能來侵犯行政權啊"},{"start":1485.933,"end":1511.463,"text":"沒有啦這個是這樣啦如果有沒有違憲要請大法官會議解釋大法官被逼到很長一段時間不能作業啊所以院長這都是精心設計啊美國的聯邦最高法院那美國的國會山莊美國的白宮它有兩條路相連一條叫做憲法大道一條叫做獨立大道這個憲法大道"},{"start":1512.833,"end":1527.924,"text":"走到盡頭你會看到美國司法部前面一顆碑文Where law ends, tyranny begins當你不遵守法律的時候獨裁就會開始委員我有點我實在是覺得遺憾如果委員能夠在前兩年都進來"},{"start":1528.945,"end":1556.857,"text":"大概貴黨黨團不會做出這樣的決定因為你的法學素養跟他們是截然不同的沒有沒有沒有這此言差矣我覺得是這樣子你必須勇敢承認這是我們對你的尊敬術業有專攻我是外交的逃兵我今天受惠於法律人讓我讀政法法律人的尊嚴當行政權被侵犯的時候如果行政院一點自保的能力都沒有那五權憲法形同虛設"},{"start":1557.817,"end":1581.372,"text":"所以你不覺得今天兩位對我的講話聲音比較大一點我的聲音反而比較溫和這不是大聲的問題這是要讓你清楚我們對你的肯定是如果前兩年你在大概不會做成這樣的結果辭職或應急接受那我們現在徵求條文沒有辭職兩個字那到底我們法律是要我們來怎麼處理呢也就是說你應急接受"},{"start":1582.52,"end":1609.524,"text":"沒有辭職的選項到底徵求條文是要我們來處理當時如果不接受辭職現在是用什麼方式呢我個人的初期的看法是這樣也就是說你如果是沒有經過互譽的法律案你不附屬這個時候你是違反這個沒有違反憲法的要求沒有明文"},{"start":1610.322,"end":1636.216,"text":"但是你使得總統沒辦法去公布法律所以總統是應該對你行政免職但是如果你是經過法律案附屬沒有通過的這種情形根據我們現在徵修條文第三條變成第三條要求應急接受行政院長應急接受就是要附屬"},{"start":1637.352,"end":1659.675,"text":"那你不附屬就是違反徵求條文第三條復譽之後被否決的沒有不附屬復譽之後被否決的我們接受但是我同時可以提出釋憲但大法官這條路被擋住了所以好幾次已經八次的復譽沒有成功因為院長您在財政修正法徵法是因為復譽失敗就沒有附屬"},{"start":1660.812,"end":1688.153,"text":"副議失敗對 副議失敗接受但我們可以提出大法官的解釋但是大法官這個正常的運作被長時間的停止所以八次的副議都失敗到最後逼不得已我們在想說如何確保行政權到底憲法規定的行政院編滅預算 立法院議決預算這樣的權限能不能劃得很清楚院長我的理解是這樣副議失敗的"},{"start":1690.779,"end":1711.977,"text":"不附屬這個時候會變成你違反憲法第三條呼籲失敗不附屬沒有這樣狀況憲法徵求條文第三條它要求呼籲失敗應急接受應急接受就是附屬你不附屬就是違反應急接受的憲法接受以後我們是另外提出釋憲"},{"start":1715.025,"end":1723.07,"text":"我不附屬的就沒有提出復議沒有先復議再不接受視線必須要公布以後才可以視線法律還沒有公布還不能視線我個人的解讀"},{"start":1727.539,"end":1755.842,"text":"當一個行政院長違反憲法徵修條文的時候他其實是違反公務人員服務法第一條遵守法定的義務以及23條要說工程法公務人員懲戒法第九條這個叫做司法免職這個叫做司法免職跟剛才行政免職不一樣也就是說一個行政院長他沒有遵守憲法應急先措然後不附屬的"},{"start":1756.874,"end":1763.316,"text":"一個法律 憲法要求這個會變成公務員人懲戒法懲戒之後是不是要送監察院是要送監察院要不要送監察院"},{"start":1770.936,"end":1798.535,"text":"因為院長是檢查用的路也被你們擋死啦行政院長是領有信奉的公務人員所以他適用公務人員懲戒法跟公務人員服務法因為您領有信奉我另外一個疑案是過去兩年委員不在就這幾個案件我們可以私下一一跟委員來對附屬的 不附屬的 附議的 不附議的是怎麼樣的一個狀況我可以私下跟委員請教這是我個人研究出來的答案不是助理寫的所以"},{"start":1800.028,"end":1816.716,"text":"這個應該是司法免職為什麼我們昨天會要去彈劾賴總統就是因為他沒有對行政院長司法免職所以才會提出一個彈劾案你們要彈劾總統罪名可以隨便你們安沒有一條成立的"},{"start":1817.817,"end":1845.746,"text":"這是這樣啦 院長 我們真的是一個法治國家是誰在破壞憲政體制常治久安至於法律有沒有違憲 這個要大法官會解釋大法官就被你們擋死啦監察院也被你們刪減預算啦行政院也被你們侵害啦只有立法好"},{"start":1848.535,"end":1873.574,"text":"謝謝徐委員法院會司法及法治組織質詢已詢答完畢謝謝左院長及相關部會首長列席答詢現做以下決定下次會議進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢另外5月19日星期二上午實施"},{"start":1874.87,"end":1875.593,"text":"實時繼續開會進行總統談的案事項現在休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}