{"error":false,"id":["169409"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169409,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169409","日期":"2026-05-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-18T09:14:01+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-18T09:24:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/223c8978a2ec9f24c6745b724410032ded00dd173c38e0afd817488d83a1324c4afb211783feff0a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:14:01 - 09:24:42","會議時間":"2026-05-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部部分。二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國土管理署及所屬、國家公園署及所屬、建築研究所部分。三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款內政部、國家公園署及所屬、國土管理署及所屬部分。四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管作業基金－營建建設基金、實施平均地權基金。五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金－研發及產業訓儲替代役基金、國土永續發展基金。六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金－黃瑞景先生獎學基金、胡原洲女士獎(助)學基金部分。七、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會、財團法人威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復基金會、財團法人台灣建築中心、財團法人臺灣營建研究院、財團法人中央營建技術顧問研究社等5家財團法人115年度預算書案。八、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心115年度預算書案。九、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員李柏毅等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員許宇甄等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【詢答及處理】、【所列預算提案於115年5月11日(一)中午12時前截止收件。】【第十三案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":4.03034375,"end":6.27471875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":11.607218750000001,"end":55.56659375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":55.88721875,"end":57.57471875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":57.81096875,"end":62.502218750000004,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":60.713468750000004,"end":60.83159375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"花董事長敬群","start":60.83159375,"end":60.94971875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":60.94971875,"end":61.000343750000006,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"花董事長敬群","start":63.16034375,"end":70.18034375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":63.70034375,"end":64.69596875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":65.03346875,"end":65.11784375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":65.11784375,"end":65.18534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":65.18534375,"end":65.30346875000001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":65.74221875,"end":65.77596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":67.54784375,"end":68.03721875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":69.82596875,"end":118.03784375000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"花董事長敬群","start":72.79596875,"end":73.85909375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"花董事長敬群","start":118.03784375000001,"end":155.31471875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":123.62346875,"end":124.80471875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":127.01534375000001,"end":127.15034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":147.94034375,"end":147.95721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":153.88034375,"end":154.23471875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":154.48784375,"end":155.17971875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":155.31471875,"end":294.31409375000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":295.10721875,"end":304.20284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":304.37159375000005,"end":389.13471875000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":314.51346875,"end":315.01971875000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":361.96596875,"end":365.00346875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":388.67909375000005,"end":502.24784375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":502.39971875000003,"end":550.79721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":551.0165937500001,"end":573.3928437500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":572.5490937500001,"end":576.29534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":574.9284687500001,"end":587.9053437499999,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":586.01534375,"end":592.6809687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":589.66034375,"end":590.50409375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":592.2590937500001,"end":606.1303437500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":601.75971875,"end":602.2153437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蘇委員巧慧","start":605.8772187500001,"end":637.70346875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":637.01159375,"end":637.33221875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":639.00284375,"end":640.3190937500001,"speaker_score":0.942}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.056,"end":5.366,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請劉世芬 劉部長"},{"start":12.299,"end":40.338,"text":"部長好部長今天是審查內政部的預算詢答那我當然也就內政部所寫的業務提了幾項預算案很感謝內政部相關所屬單位其實也都積極的來跟本席的辦公室溝通所以應該也都有很多正向的結果但我還是希望能夠在質詢與備詢之間請部長就幾個問題公開做回答所以第一項的話其實我是希望能夠討論一下這個社宅申請系統"},{"start":41.559,"end":61.205,"text":"那部長我們都知道社宅現在大家都很好評所以供不應求或多或少都有排隊的需求那民眾知道自己的排序嗎他如果是被取的話那他知道他是被取幾號嗎部長你知道這個狀況嗎我可不可以請住住中心來跟您回應一下好 那不然來"},{"start":63.649,"end":78.446,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個話題備選號碼當然備選號碼知道嘛對不對知道我是備取而且知道我是備取幾號嘛對不對所以其實董事長我想跟您問的就是說那我怎麼知道我備取比如說我是備取300號那請問我要等"},{"start":80.629,"end":102.437,"text":"到什麼時候 什麼時候才會輪到我這個300號呢因為其實我們就接到民眾的陳情我覺得非常有道理 所以特別來跟您詢問因為我現在是被取表示我還是需要住在外面那因為我不知道我這個要等多久我怎麼知道我在外面的這個租期我要控制在多久呢這其實當然對我們會非常的不便利 所以"},{"start":102.717,"end":123.255,"text":"其實現在我們大概比如說譬如說看醫生的預約或其他甚至餐廳的預約等等我們都可以大概知道說我是幾號以後我大概會等多久出去中心有沒有辦法是在現有的系統上面再精進讓我知道我的備取大概是會等多久好 謝謝委員現在備取的部分我們系統正在建置"},{"start":123.715,"end":140.435,"text":"已經有蓋建制了吧9月底可以 9月可以做應該今年第四季上線沒有問題所以這個9月上線的系統是可以達到我剛剛的要求嗎這個我要再往下確定一下因為就是說現在排到 備取已經到第幾號這個是沒有問題這沒有問題 我們都要預計還要等"},{"start":144.679,"end":170.914,"text":"因為這涉及到我們住戶搬遷出去的經驗值的建立那不同的社區他的經驗值會不一樣所以我們會逐步來加強那謝謝董事長那既然現在我們都知道九月這個系統會精進上線我在這裡就公開要求我希望能夠朝這個方向前進因為這對大部分申請社宅的民眾是非常重要的謝謝董事長那有任何進度請再跟本席報告本席報告是謝謝那董事長"},{"start":172.595,"end":201.208,"text":"另外還有一體我非常關心的也是每一次都會跟內政部來就教的就是污水下水道的建制那污水下水道感謝中央給予經費的大力補助所以其實我這樣我們照資料來看數據會說的話2016到2024年8年當中中央補助了新北的污水下水道建設總共210億是全國第一在這裡我們謝謝中央的幫忙"},{"start":202.188,"end":221.351,"text":"那不過因為在這個過程當中其實因為剛剛好就是我參與的這十年所以其實它每一期的補助狀況都會滾動式檢討所以今天我們已經到了第五期結束第六期即將結束第七期要開始我就是要在這裡再次跟部長的討論"},{"start":222.392,"end":237.402,"text":"不講我們其實在第五期的時候當時是說接管率到了五成可能我們中央補助就要下降就要減少很多了所以當時五到六的時候我們在第五期甚至第五期根本還沒有結束應該是說2018年的時候"},{"start":239.824,"end":257.177,"text":"新北市做得很快我們也要謝謝新北市政府很重視污水下水道的問題做得很快所以很快就到了50%了所以我就不能申請中央的補助了當時我們就是爭取前瞻也要繼續持續的補助新北市所以前瞻給了10億好 5到6的時候因為介於這個狀況我們就跟內政部討論"},{"start":264.682,"end":294.122,"text":"所以我新北這麼大你用全市來說我只要到五成了中央就開始不補助這樣怎麼會是對的呢所以很感謝內政部採納了我們的建議在整個接管比例數從五成調到了七成也就是說以縣市到達了七成才算是比較完善的接管率中央才開始討論補助是不是應該要調整好那部長我今天就是來跟您就教那未來第七期您的標準"},{"start":295.363,"end":314.262,"text":"還是以縣市整體的接管率做標準嗎這個標準還是維持在縣市達七成你就開始考慮調降補助嗎謝謝蘇委員對於這個污水下水道通常大概就是要非常有遠見的人對污水下水道的建設才會非常的關心謝謝蘇委員"},{"start":315.643,"end":339.67,"text":"那委員所提到的沒有錯我們一般來講本來就是通案上來考慮如果你是污水下水道的補助達到一定的程度之後那希望縣市政府自己來補助比較多的經費可是你考量剛剛委員所提到的部分恐怕還要做滾動式的調整所謂滾動式的調整就是說你的污水下水道在建設計畫當中它的人口稠密的區域"},{"start":340.83,"end":361.699,"text":"對你要用到污水下水道才能夠保障公共衛生跟公共設施上面安全的話是不是需要調整這個預算上面的結構那這個預算上面的結構的話第一個我們現在跟行政院來溝通也就是說如果所謂的這個高接管縣市裡面的低接管區域的話他有沒有優先的補助機制"},{"start":362.039,"end":365.502,"text":"優先補助機制的話就不要拘泥於說你只能補助51%或49%也許六成七成都要考慮在內那尤其是現在有大量的這個就業人口或者是移動性的人口到新北市來我們必須要從長計議這樣子才會不要讓人覺得說我只是為了預算然後就把預算做成一個很死的一個方案的補助"},{"start":388.823,"end":403.568,"text":"好 非常感謝部長部長那你有把我們前幾次的這個質詢有意見有參採進去我們非常感謝不過我今天還要除了剛剛這個你說你會調整人口稠密區如果接管率還可以再提高"},{"start":404.028,"end":432.837,"text":"中央也會再持續補助這個人口稠密區的部分您採納了我們的意見了我覺得很好那我給你看下一張圖你看這是我們新北獲得污水下水道或者說這個以顏色來分你可以看得出來有白色和深淺綠色的不同所以整個新北來講我這張圖想表示的是綠色越深的地方其實是接管率越高的地方比如說左上角這個比較深的地方就是淡水"},{"start":433.097,"end":457.539,"text":"它的接管率已經到達了九成可是你可以看到其他的地方不但是淺綠色在周圍的部分不但是淺綠色甚至有大片的白色的區域這個地方幾乎是零甚至是你如果看最下方這塊最大塊很淡很淡的綠色這塊這塊叫做汙萊汙萊的接管率也不到二十那它往上一點點的平靈"},{"start":458.9,"end":487.579,"text":"接管率也不到20部長我今天想跟您討論的不只是人口稠密區你看看我們的新北市範圍這麼面積這麼大遠超過許多的縣市我光是一個屋來其實就已經超過所有離島的縣市別而屋來跟坪林我剛剛舉例的其實我們是什麼我們是在縣型的這個補助作業要點裡面是優先補助的二水源水質水量的保護區"},{"start":488.98,"end":511.103,"text":"所以部長我想跟部內建議的是說其實您在第六期的優先補助原則裡面一是都會地區二是水源水質水量保護區還有三四五等等但你是不是可以考慮我們像這樣子的區域其實它不應該只被用縣市來做劃分"},{"start":512.364,"end":539.81,"text":"新本市已經達到七成了我們補助就降低你看看整個來講這是如果以台灣的國土面積來看我們的國土面積裡面還有絕大部分其實是白色 接管率是低的何況我們還有肩負著北台灣非常重要的水質水源保護區接管率也相當偏低我今天就是特別在這裡向您爭取水源水質保護區的接管率是不是可以突破縣市別"},{"start":540.33,"end":568.32,"text":"直接由中央承諾我們會加強這些地區的污水下水道建置的中央補助部長 問題非常的明確好 謝謝蘇委員的關心我想蘇委員提供的概念非常的好那這些條件我們會來跟行政院的回答我們在新北建設上面的立場但是我也要建議現在所有的污水下水道的系統我們都會鼓勵要籌設再生水"},{"start":569.521,"end":591.821,"text":"這個再生水的部分的好處就是說它不一定是拿來引用我們現在在第四項裡面其實有配合推動再生水那你剛所提到的水質水源保護區的部分的話呢我們也會有跨縣市來考量就是說不要把它侷限說你是整個縣市好像是以零為貨因為我這個地方負擔這麼大的責任你不能只用一個單一縣市切線行政區劃分就把我劃死"},{"start":592.601,"end":620.788,"text":"而且大達北地區或者是北北基桃它其實是一個生活圈的概念我們不要侷限在於縣市政府的氛圍來考量我想這樣對於平衡區域發展也是卓院長所說的是非常重要的非常感謝部長今天的承諾非常重要我想我們不只是烏來、坪林甚至是雙溪、坪溪、深坑、石碇這整個地方都是肩負著水源水質保護的整個地區我們這裡的居民其實"},{"start":621.408,"end":634.755,"text":"因為受限於水源水質的保護區其實這麼多年來有很多的辛苦之處我們希望能夠從政府加強補助讓他們的基礎設施完善讓整個生活可以改善跟提升謝謝部長的承諾我們繼續做細部的討論謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:05.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:06.366000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請劉世芳劉部長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:06.366000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:13.299000+08:00","text":"蘇委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:13.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:13.579000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:14.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:35.774000+08:00","text":"部長，今天的議程是審查內政部預算案的詢答，我當然也就內政部所轄業務提了幾項預算案，很感謝內政部還有相關所屬單位也都積極來跟本席的辦公室溝通，所以應該也都有很多正向的結果，但我還是希望能夠在質詢與備詢之間，請部長就幾個問題公開回答。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:36.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:41.338000+08:00","text":"第一項我是希望能夠討論一下社宅申請系統。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:42.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:52.862000+08:00","text":"部長，我們都知道社宅現在備受大眾好評，所以供不應求，或多或少都有排隊的需求，民眾知道自己的排序嗎？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:52.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:56.983000+08:00","text":"他如果是備取的話，他知道他是備取幾號嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:56.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:14:59.064000+08:00","text":"部長，你知道這個狀況嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:14:59.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:01.704000+08:00","text":"我可不可以請住都中心來跟您回應一下？好。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:01.704000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:04.649000+08:00","text":"來，董事長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:04.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:07.832000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心這個話題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:07.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:07.832000+08:00","text":"備選號碼當然……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:09.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:11.437000+08:00","text":"備選號碼知道嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:11.437000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:12.437000+08:00","text":"對，住戶知道，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:11.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:14.801000+08:00","text":"知道我是備取，而且知道我是備取幾號嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:14.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:18.605000+08:00","text":"所以董事長，我想跟您問的就是，我怎麼知道我是備取？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:18.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:24.870000+08:00","text":"比如我是備取300號，請問我要等到什麼時候、什麼時候才會輪到我這個300號呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:25.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:29.732000+08:00","text":"其實我們就接到民眾的陳情，我覺得非常有道理，所以特別來跟您詢問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:29.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:40.256000+08:00","text":"因為我現在是備取，表示我還是需要住在外面，如果我不知道我的備取號碼要等多久，我怎麼知道我在外面的租期要控制在多久呢？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:40.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:15:42.817000+08:00","text":"這其實當然對我們會非常不便利。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:15:43.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:00.051000+08:00","text":"其實現在我們不管是看醫生的預約或其他甚至餐廳的預約等等，我們都可以知道我是幾號，然後我大概會等多久，住都中心有沒有辦法在現有的系統上面再精進，讓我知道我的備取大概是會等多久？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:00.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:01.693000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:01.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:04.235000+08:00","text":"現在備取的部分，我們系統正在建置……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:04.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:05.456000+08:00","text":"已經有在建置了嘛？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:05.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:10.822000+08:00","text":"預計9月底可以，9月可以做好，應該今年第四季上線沒有問題。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:10.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:15.608000+08:00","text":"所以這個9月上線的系統，可以達到我剛剛的要求嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:15.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:20.854000+08:00","text":"這個我要再往下確定一下，因為系統對於呈現現在已經排到備取到第幾號，這個沒有問題……","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:20.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:21.255000+08:00","text":"對，這沒有問題，我們都知道。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:21.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:30.342000+08:00","text":"但預計還要等多久，因為這個涉及到住戶搬遷出去的經驗值的建立……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:30.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:31.363000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:31.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:36.505000+08:00","text":"不同社區的經驗值會不一樣，這個我們會逐步加強。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:36.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:37.446000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝董事長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:37.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:48.112000+08:00","text":"既然現在我們都知道9月這個系統會精進上線，我在這裡就公開要求，我希望能夠朝這個方向前進，因為這個對大部分申請社宅的民眾是非常重要的。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:48.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:50.914000+08:00","text":"謝謝董事長，有任何進度，請再跟本席辦公室報告。謝謝。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:51.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:16:51.634000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員，好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:16:51.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:17:00.658000+08:00","text":"部長，另外還有一題我非常關心的，也是每一次都會跟內政部來就教的，就是污水下水道的建置。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:17:02.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:17:10.663000+08:00","text":"感謝中央給予污水下水道經費大力補助，我們調資料來看，數據會說話。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:17:10.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:17:22.188000+08:00","text":"2016到2024年的8年當中，中央補助了新北的污水下水道建設總共210億，是全國第一，在這裡我們謝謝中央的幫忙。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:17:23.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:17:42.351000+08:00","text":"不過，因為在這個過程當中，剛剛好就是我參與的這十年，其實每一期的補助狀況都會滾動式檢討，所以今天我們已經到了第六期即將結束，第七期要開始了，我就是要在這裡再次跟部長討論。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:17:43.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:18:17.776000+08:00","text":"部長，我們其實在第五期的時候，當時是說接管率到了五成，可能中央補助就要下降，就要減少很多了，所以當時五到六的時候，我們在第五期，甚至第五期根本還沒有結束，應該是說2018年的時候，新北市做得很快，我們也要謝謝新北市政府很重視污水下水道的問題，做得很快，很快就到50%了，所以我們就不能申請中央的補助了，當時我們就爭取前瞻也要繼續、持續地補助新北市，所以前瞻給了10億。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:18:17.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:18:32.847000+08:00","text":"好，在五到六期的時候，鑑於這個狀況，我們就跟內政部討論，說我新北這麼大，用全市來說只要到五成了，中央就開始不補助，這樣怎麼會是對的呢？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:18:33.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:18:49.758000+08:00","text":"所以很感謝內政部採納了我們的建議，將整體接管比率從五成調到了七成，也就是說，縣市到達七成才算是比較完善的接管率，中央才開始討論補助是不是應該要調整。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:18:50.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:19:00.547000+08:00","text":"部長，我今天就是來跟您就教，未來第七期的補助標準還是以縣市整體的接管率做標準嗎？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:19:00.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:19:06.153000+08:00","text":"這個標準還是維持在縣市達七成，你就開始考慮調降補助嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:19:06.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:19:15.262000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇委員對於污水下水道的重視，通常大概要非常有遠見的人，才會對於污水下水道建設非常關心，謝謝蘇委員。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:19:16.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:19:33.188000+08:00","text":"就委員所提到的，沒有錯，我們一般來講本來就是通案上來考慮，如果污水下水道的補助達到一定的程度之後，希望縣市政府自己來補助比較多的經費，可是若考量剛剛委員所提到的情況，恐怕還要做滾動式的調整。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:19:33.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:19:48.173000+08:00","text":"所謂滾動式的調整就是，污水下水道建設計畫要考量人口稠密度，在人口稠密區域要用污水下水道才能夠保障公共衛生跟公共設施安全的話，是不是需要調整預算的結構。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:19:48.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:20:02.679000+08:00","text":"而這個預算上面的結構，第一個，我們現在跟行政院溝通，也就是說，所謂高接管縣市裡面的低接管區域的話，它有沒有優先的補助機制。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:20:02.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:20:03.679000+08:00","text":"沒錯，這個問題我已經質詢過好幾次了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:20:03.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:20:06.482000+08:00","text":"如果有優先補助機制的話，就不要拘泥說只能補助51%或49%，也許六成、七成都要考慮在內，尤其是現在有大量的就業人口或者是移動性的人口到新北市來，我們必須要從長計議，不要讓人家覺得只是為了預算，就把預算做成一個很死的方案補助。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:20:29.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:20:36.425000+08:00","text":"好，非常感謝部長，部長有把我們前幾次的質詢意見參採進去，我們非常感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:20:36.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:20:50.830000+08:00","text":"不過除了剛剛這個，你說你會調整人口稠密區，如果接管率還可以再提高，中央也會再持續補助人口稠密區的部分，你採納了我們的意見，我覺得很好。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:20:51.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:21:01.633000+08:00","text":"我給你看下一張圖，這是我們新北獲得污水下水道經費補助的情形，以顏色來分，你可以看得出來有白色和深、淺綠色的不同。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:21:02.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:21:16.619000+08:00","text":"整個新北來講，我這張圖想表示的是綠色越深的地方，其實是接管率越高的地方，比如說左上角比較深的地方就是淡水，它的接管率已經到達了九成。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:21:17.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:21:40.881000+08:00","text":"可是你可以看到其他的地方不但是淺綠色，在周圍的部分甚至有大片白色的區域，這個地方幾乎是零，甚至你如果看最下方最大很淡很淡的綠色這一塊，這一塊叫做烏來，烏來的接管率不到20%，它往上一點點的坪林，接管率也不到20%。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:21:41.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:21:57.212000+08:00","text":"部長，我今天想跟你討論的不只是人口稠密區，你看看我們的新北市，範圍、面積這麼大，遠超過許多的縣市，光是一個烏來，其實就已經超過所有離島的縣市別。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:21:57.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:22:08.579000+08:00","text":"而我剛剛舉例的烏來跟坪林，其實在現行的補助作業要點裡面，是優先補助的二、水源水質水量的保護區。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:22:09.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:22:32.083000+08:00","text":"所以部長，我想跟部內建議的是，您在第六期的優先補助原則裡面，一是都會地區，二是水源水質水量保護區，還有三、四、五等等，但你是不是可以考慮像這樣子的區域不應該只用縣市劃分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:22:33.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:22:36.205000+08:00","text":"像是新北市已經達到七成了，補助就降低。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:22:36.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:22:52.528000+08:00","text":"你看看整個來講，如果以臺灣的國土面積來看，我們的國土面積裡面還有絕大部分其實是白色，接管率是低的，何況我們還有肩負著北臺灣非常重要的水質水源保護區，接管率也相當偏低。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:22:52.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:23:09.133000+08:00","text":"我今天就是特別在這裡向您爭取水源水質保護區的接管率是不是可以突破縣市別，直接由中央承諾會加強這些地區污水下水道建置的中央補助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:23:09.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:23:12.054000+08:00","text":"部長，問題非常地明確。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:23:13.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:23:33.604000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇委員的關心，我想蘇委員提供的概念非常好，這些條件我們會來跟行政院表達我們在新北建設上面的立場，但是我也要建議，現在所有的污水下水道系統，我們都會鼓勵要籌設再生水，再生水的好處就是它不一定是拿來飲用……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:23:34.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:23:36.806000+08:00","text":"你現在在第四項裡面其實有配合推動再生水。對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:23:37.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:23:47.616000+08:00","text":"你剛剛所提到的水質水源保護區的部分，我們也會跨縣市考量，就是不要侷限在整個縣市，好像是以鄰為壑，不要用這樣的想法……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:23:47.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:23:52.801000+08:00","text":"對，因為我這個地方負擔這麼大的責任，你不能只用一個單一縣市、行政區劃分就把我劃死了。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:23:53.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:24:06.884000+08:00","text":"對，而且大臺北地區或者是北北基桃其實是一個生活圈的概念，我們不要侷限在縣市政府這個氛圍來考量，我想這樣對於平衡區域發展，也是卓院長所說的，是非常重要的。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:24:06.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:24:34.935000+08:00","text":"非常感謝部長，今天的承諾非常重要，我想不只是烏來、坪林，甚至是雙溪、平溪、深坑、石碇，這整個地方都是肩負著水源水質保護的整個地區，我們這裡的居民因為受限於水源水質的保護區，其實這麼多年來有很多辛苦之處，我們希望能夠從政府加強補助，讓他們的基礎設施完善，讓整個生活可以改善跟提升。","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-18T09:24:35.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:24:35.755000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長的承諾，我們繼續做細部的討論，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:24:36.255000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:24:37.255000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-18T09:24:37.555000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:24:39.555000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-18T09:24:39.855000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:24:42.997857+08:00","text":"接下來我們請張智倫委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}