{"error":false,"id":["169412"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169412,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169412","日期":"2026-05-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-18T09:48:45+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-18T09:59:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/223c8978a2ec9f2449c0544eff234c57ed00dd173c38e0afd817488d83a1324ce89831f4f6d40dec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"09:48:45 - 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委員對這個總告團體 包括這裡的定期的部分 非常關心當然像委員所講的 好定期的好處理都處理了什麼是派定期 派處理 這個看起來就是說 頭一方面就是它的產權 很複雜"},{"start":149.951,"end":158.833,"text":"相關很複雜的,有時候是有牽涉的工地,有時候是樹林的土地,有時候是沙坡地,有時候還要求說它是不是間地還是敏感的地質,我們都知道很多廟宇,有時候他差不多在那個地方已經七八十年、一百年以上,被混入還更久"},{"start":169.036,"end":174.399,"text":"所以排除你這一行第二行就是說他在定期的過程當中或是過去以來,裡面的朱祁鈴譬如說廟宇裡面的朱祁鈴或是他的總幹事他們個人的意願是不是很強有的大廟跟縣主是說我就是要定期你也不把他強迫因為我們的保安是高雷啦,我們是強制"},{"start":195.069,"end":198.95,"text":"所以為什麼拖這麼久的時間都已經用暫行條例然後延長實現就是我們希望我們可以花更多的時間來做這個服務但是實際上真的回到困擾因為每一個廟宇都回到不一樣的問題裡面牽涉的問題有時候不是用我們的行政的處分就可以處理"},{"start":220.114,"end":224.937,"text":"有時候是個人 到個人期間又來又去啦 丁丁這些我們站在行政官員的立場蓋一張 其實很大的困擾所以包括說我們跟每一個管制政府的協商的期間 他們也覺得說這很大的困擾"},{"start":236.425,"end":245.13,"text":"就繼續去恢復當然要感謝說現在有要配合到政府機關所提出來的定期但也能定期好所以未來時間到了有什麼方式我認為跟憲組都要有共識喔 都要有共識 要有共識不然你問本縣市怎麼會跟你說要好定期的定期去了現在就是有困難的要好定期你知不知道我們的風雨"},{"start":264.68,"end":269.111,"text":"變成給長輩、長輩、長女依賴的代表給予的人,完蛋啦"},{"start":273.24,"end":278.842,"text":"有幾多間廟,投資生意想說,你知不知道全台灣的廟很多的,聽到中央政府有這個很好,要去登記的時候才發覺說,這套廟的三款,是一半是樹林的,一半是公家的,現在要收購了"},{"start":298.288,"end":301.893,"text":"但他們本來想說,我在這個廟做不成功,做三四十天、四五十天,你如果這麼好,不要在天氣好的時候,我再廣告我做不成功,都沒這回事了"},{"start":313.41,"end":315.531,"text":"所以補充,這個問題也有出現出來,會睡覺,跟我們實在的好意想說,跟當初以來,英國都沒有辦法,也沒有程序,我們有望,讓它更合法的,"},{"start":329.216,"end":336.821,"text":"讓他更好,這更方便因為我覺得問題出一台,我相信北京這個單位必須有更好的人我希望北京說到現在阿富汗公司聽這句話"},{"start":354.284,"end":362.749,"text":"煩惱煩惱的 擔心擔心的那不要緊 我們待會還要討論的時候有什麼問題還可以討論在這裏面補充我跟你跟國土署來請教一下因為因應氣候變遷的時候的遺症有新增29億在這個過程當中 補充"},{"start":383.075,"end":392.885,"text":"署長,你如果看到帝恩,現在帝恩大家都很認真做的,尤其白水也做得很好,但是現在就是有時候,最大的禍,讓你沒辦法去預防的,會是火水來了,在這個過程當中,"},{"start":407.048,"end":410.711,"text":"不管帶一棟的,在協調當中,都有說這二十九億,不賣三,所以看得出來,補聽也好,國土事務也好,很認真"},{"start":423.645,"end":441.577,"text":"地方政府溝通說,你們好事要待,要改善,要謹慎對未來,謹注意,但是在這個過程當中,事實上我要說,因為你知道地方經常有淫醉在那裡的時候,"},{"start":445.12,"end":467.542,"text":"如果一天還沒到位的時候,跟陰水的時候,你會感到好嗎?來,蘇丁你回答一下跟委員報告,這個部分我們當然會看得很痛苦,但我們也就希望說,第一個預算要趕快通過第二個就是,有很多前置的一個作業,我們會跟地方來溝通,趕快先進行"},{"start":468.37,"end":473.935,"text":"因為我也知道你們很用心的,但是在用心的當中,讓水這麼大下水的時候,是認真要認真,我認為認真是應該的"},{"start":484.963,"end":506.957,"text":"那天你在澳去看,把你市政府澳提出個位在澳湖站的QG機裡面,署長,我問你,到那天你說的,可以看出雨水下水量的監測,可以做抽水站,要多久?來,署長,你回答一下"},{"start":512.475,"end":526.016,"text":"跟委員報告那個如果說他就是整個計劃如果現在開始去做一個設計啦那他實際上完工的時間也大概落在明年的最快大概是明年的訓期前應該可以趕完工"},{"start":526.513,"end":536.606,"text":"這樣,市長,我先來請教一下,像我跟您在這裡這幾個月會進行,你們可以去加價去市政府,我已經去處理去用,因為畢竟大家都為了百姓來"},{"start":543.584,"end":544.305,"text":"我們報計劃的過程就是會召開一些相關的審議"},{"start":558.818,"end":565.319,"text":"所以這個東西跟地方政府 包括來源要怎麼做其實都有溝通 而且還有很經過的審查這樣 署長你的意思就是說每一間 要結帳到中央的時候當然是要寫好最好我們不一定每一間的結帳都可以在中央補助"},{"start":584.028,"end":588.875,"text":"要經過審查啦 要經過審查 但是本身在這裡要說白痴的問題 路虎的問題 你要如果委員會說我們沒有關稅 但是可以讓地方改變"},{"start":599.93,"end":606.314,"text":"他的反擊才是最重要的我們會盡量幫助地方去解決這些問題因為可能我們溝通有些問題 我覺得這不是起頭想說你先去你的 先去我的可以讓地方的建設做得好 改善得好 不要被壞"},{"start":623.766,"end":631.532,"text":"大家看羅浩聖堕河時,國藩的飲水,這是最重要的因為大家說要改善,把大家的飲水都放在那裡,這是非常嚴重的所以說,我們署長保證,對日子也好,對全台灣的飲水、白水有問題,我們要去關心,以上"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:48:48.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:48:48.286000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請部長。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:48:48.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:48:48.426000+08:00","text":"王委員，你好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:48:48.426000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:48:49.426000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:48:48.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:49:19.978000+08:00","text":"部長，我們今天要探討宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產的問題，我覺得這個成績看起來不錯，在一開始登記的時候就完成了一千多筆的登記。","quality":0.508},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:49:22.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:49:30.324000+08:00","text":"全國有兩千多件，我們從111年開始登記，不過到現在還有一千兩百多個沒有完成登記。","quality":0.353},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:49:38.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:49:49.796000+08:00","text":"我相信部長也知道，好登記的、不會麻煩的，差不多都已經登記好了，還沒有完成登記的就是比較有問題的。","quality":0.558},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:49:51.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:49:55.039000+08:00","text":"部長，你認為還沒登記的這一千多件是遇到什麼問題？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:49:55.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:50:11.495000+08:00","text":"怎麼會因為這件事情……現在有可以登記的，也有沒辦法去登記的，所以我們今天才要來修這個法，看是不是可以放寬到兩年或四年，因為這個法的規定就是十年內就要完成，如果十年內沒有去登記就沒有了。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:50:11.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:50:31.361000+08:00","text":"部長，到現在還有好幾千件沒有登記，這些沒辦法登記的一定有什麼問題嘛，因為剛開始的時候就有這麼多人去登記了，就是剛剛本席說的，好登記的都登記了。","quality":0.492},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:50:31.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:50:32.702000+08:00","text":"現在遇到的問題是什麼，是不是可以請部長回答一下？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:50:55.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:51:02.403000+08:00","text":"報告委員，委員對宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產的部分非常關心，就像委員所說的，好登記的、好處理的都處理完了，什麼是不好登記、不好處理的？","quality":0.574},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:51:02.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:51:19.412000+08:00","text":"這牽涉到一方面是它的產權很複雜，有時候是牽涉到國有土地或是私人土地或山坡地，有時候還要看這是不是建地或是敏感的地質。","quality":0.709},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:51:19.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:51:34.757000+08:00","text":"我們都知道很多廟宇在那個地方已經七八十年、一百年以上，比法律還要久，所以不好處理，這是一個。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:51:34.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:51:38.699000+08:00","text":"第二個就是它在登記的過程當中，過去的主持人，譬如廟宇裡面的主持人或是總幹事他們的個人意願是否很強，有的大廟到現在還是說我就是不要登記，你也沒辦法強迫……","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:51:38.699000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:51:39.699000+08:00","text":"你也沒辦法啊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:51:38.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:51:39.379000+08:00","text":"對，因為我們是鼓勵，我們不是強制。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:00.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:28.036000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼那麼久的時間都一直用暫行條例，然後延長時限，就是希望我們可以花更多時間來做這個服務，但事實上真的有遇到困難，因為每一個廟宇都遇到不同的問題，其中牽涉的問題有時候不是用我們的行政處分就可以處理的，有時候是個人或個人之間的問題等等，我們站在行政官員的立場要介入，其實有很大的困擾。","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:28.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:29.937000+08:00","text":"所以我們跟每一個縣市政府在協商時，他們也覺得這是很大的困擾……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:29.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:41.425000+08:00","text":"很辛苦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:41.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:41.445000+08:00","text":"所以就要繼續輔導。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:41.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:45.167000+08:00","text":"當然也要感謝，現在配合政府機關所提出來的這些登記事項，慢慢來登記完整，未來時間到了以後，要用什麼樣的方式處理，我認為到現在都還沒有共識。","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:45.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:46.228000+08:00","text":"都還沒有共識。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:46.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:46.348000+08:00","text":"對，還沒有共識。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:46.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:52:48.869000+08:00","text":"部長，本席為什麼會跟你說好登記的都登記了，現在就是有困難的還沒登記？","quality":0.548},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:52:49.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:53:13.650000+08:00","text":"你知道我們的好意變成讓地方長久以來在廟裡服務的人很「怨嘆」。","quality":0.407},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:53:18.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:53:46.853000+08:00","text":"你知道全臺灣的廟很多，有好幾間廟聽到中央政府要他們登記，他們也覺得很好，但是去登記的時候發現廟的產權一半是私人的、一半是公家的，才來提告，他們本來想說自己在這個廟做廟公，做了三、四十年或四、五十年，政府沒有說要登記之前，他們傻傻地做廟公，都沒有這些事情。","quality":0.535},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:53:58.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:54:14.716000+08:00","text":"所以部長，現在也有出現這些問題，造成他們的困擾，但我們本來也是好意，想說長久以來他們都沒有辦這個，也沒有登記，我們希望讓他們合法、讓他們更好，結果卻演變成這樣。","quality":0.451},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:54:16.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:54:17.458000+08:00","text":"部長，問題出在哪，我相信你們單位比任何人都還了解。","quality":0.409},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:54:19.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:54:43.187000+08:00","text":"剛才部長說到現在都還沒有共識，聽到這句話，我很煩惱、很擔心，沒關係，我們等一下討論時，有什麼問題再討論。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:54:43.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:55:17.384000+08:00","text":"部長，我要跟你及國土署請教一下，為因應氣候變遷的預算有新增29億，在這個過程中，部長、署長，現在地方都很認真在做，尤其排水也做得很好，但是現在有時候下大雨是無法預防的。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:55:17.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:55:58.212000+08:00","text":"在這個過程當中，不管是哪一黨的，在協調中都有說這29億不刪，所以也看得出來，部長也好，國土署也好，很認真跟地方政府溝通，說地方如果有需要改善的，要趕快寫計畫來、趕快處理。","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:55:58.212000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:56:17.628000+08:00","text":"不過署長，我要跟你說，如果地方常常淹水，但是錢還沒到位，同時又還在淹水，你會覺得痛苦嗎？","quality":0.289},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:56:17.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:56:20.891000+08:00","text":"署長，你回答一下。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-05-18T09:56:21.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:56:32.522000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個部分我們當然看了會覺得很痛苦，但我們也希望，第一個，預算要趕快通過；第二個，有很多前置作業，我們會跟地方溝通，趕快先進行。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:56:33.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:56:38.595000+08:00","text":"署長，本席要跟你說，我也知道你們很用心，雖然很用心，但是雨水這麼大下下來的時候，要認真再認真！","quality":0.537},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:56:38.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:56:38.915000+08:00","text":"我覺得認真是應該的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:56:49.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:57:11.537000+08:00","text":"像那天你們也有去看，嘉義市政府也有提出後湖抽水站的相關計畫，署長，照那天所說的，可以監測雨水下水量、裝抽水站，要多久時間？","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-05-18T09:57:17.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:57:30.996000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果整個計畫現在開始做設計，實際上完工的時間，最快大概落在明年的汛期前應該可以趕完工。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:57:31.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:57:38.082000+08:00","text":"署長，本席請教一下，我在這裡質詢你之前，你們有沒有去跟嘉義市政府趕快處理？","quality":0.515},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:57:38.082000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:57:48.584000+08:00","text":"畢竟大家都是為了百姓來奔波，不是說你比較厲害還是我比較厲害，或是中央比較厲害還是地方比較厲害，就是要合作才可以解決這個問題。","quality":0.172},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-05-18T09:57:48.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:58:07.039000+08:00","text":"我們報計畫的過程就是會召開一些相關審議，所以這個部分，包括內容要怎麼做等等，我們跟地方政府其實都有溝通，而且還有經過審查。","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:58:07.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:58:10.299000+08:00","text":"署長，你的意思就是，每一件計畫要到中央，當然是要寫好是最好，但不一定每件計畫都可以得到中央的補助？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-05-18T09:58:29.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:58:29.188000+08:00","text":"要經過審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:58:29.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:58:46.691000+08:00","text":"要經過審查，但是本席在這裡跟你說，排水的問題、下雨的問題，你要跟委員會說，我們沒有要關說，但是可以讓地方改變它的環境才是最重要的，因為……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-05-18T09:58:46.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:58:47.892000+08:00","text":"有，我們會儘量幫助地方去解決這些問題。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:58:48.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:59:14.350000+08:00","text":"可能我們的溝通也有一些地方有問題，我覺得這不是在氣頭上說你氣你的、我氣我的，可以把地方的建設做好、改善好，不要讓百姓每次下大雨的時候就擔心會淹水，這是最重要的，因為每次說要改善，但卻每次那裡都淹水，這是非常嚴重的問題！","quality":0.616},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2026-05-18T09:59:14.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-18T09:59:16.512000+08:00","text":"所以希望署長、部長，除了嘉義市，全臺灣的淹水、排水有問題的，我們都要去關心。以上。","quality":0.618},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-18T09:59:17.012000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:59:19.012000+08:00","text":"謝謝王美惠委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（王委員美惠代）","start":"2026-05-18T09:59:19.312000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-18T09:59:22.169143+08:00","text":"我們請李柏毅召委質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}