{"error":false,"id":["169414"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169414,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169414","日期":"2026-05-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-18T10:08:09+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-18T10:17:50+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/223c8978a2ec9f2455716e612d3879b3ed00dd173c38e0afd817488d83a1324cec2d40718126b8875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:08:09 - 10:17:50","會議時間":"2026-05-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部部分。二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國土管理署及所屬、國家公園署及所屬、建築研究所部分。三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款內政部、國家公園署及所屬、國土管理署及所屬部分。四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管作業基金－營建建設基金、實施平均地權基金。五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金－研發及產業訓儲替代役基金、國土永續發展基金。六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金－黃瑞景先生獎學基金、胡原洲女士獎(助)學基金部分。七、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會、財團法人威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復基金會、財團法人台灣建築中心、財團法人臺灣營建研究院、財團法人中央營建技術顧問研究社等5家財團法人115年度預算書案。八、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心115年度預算書案。九、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員李柏毅等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員許宇甄等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【詢答及處理】、【所列預算提案於115年5月11日(一)中午12時前截止收件。】【第十三案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.11471875,"end":4.6040937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.414093750000001,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.957218750000003,"end":13.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.610968750000001,"end":15.218468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.79221875,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.27284375,"end":23.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.039718750000002,"end":26.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.60909375,"end":27.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.94659375,"end":33.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.37596875,"end":34.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.46034375,"end":33.595343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.658468750000004,"end":35.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.26596875,"end":36.244718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.17721875,"end":38.354093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.82659375,"end":40.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.64471875,"end":56.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.89534375,"end":64.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.66221875000001,"end":84.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.60409375,"end":105.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.24659375,"end":105.56721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.68096875,"end":111.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.42284375000001,"end":114.79784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.86534375000001,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.96221875,"end":168.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.70846875,"end":146.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.94471875000002,"end":147.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.04596875000001,"end":147.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.96659375000002,"end":171.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.98284375,"end":175.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.27346875,"end":185.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.50409375,"end":189.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.80284375000002,"end":193.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.58721875,"end":205.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.78784375,"end":216.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.75659375,"end":221.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.66284375,"end":226.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.72534375,"end":232.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.77096875,"end":244.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.25846875000002,"end":253.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.18534375000002,"end":260.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.85096875,"end":265.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.71534375000005,"end":266.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.33534375,"end":280.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.03784375000004,"end":287.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.36221875,"end":283.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.91471875,"end":285.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.83409375,"end":289.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.35284375000003,"end":293.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.72346875,"end":294.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.93846875,"end":295.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.84971875,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.52471875000003,"end":298.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.58346875,"end":301.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.46909375,"end":301.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.02596875,"end":307.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.86034375,"end":313.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.44596875,"end":321.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.24659375000005,"end":322.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.79909375,"end":323.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.32221875000005,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.95034375,"end":328.06409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.97534375000004,"end":338.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.50971875000005,"end":341.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.66534375000003,"end":343.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.68596875000003,"end":347.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.12846875,"end":348.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.09034375000005,"end":351.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.63846875,"end":352.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.90409375,"end":353.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.08534375000005,"end":360.9365937500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因為現在地面師真的太多了啦所以我覺得這一塊我們要去著重好 謝謝另外部長 我們這一次我們這個自然民意登記這個暫行條例其實啊 我在猜啦我們這一次啊 延兩年應該是沒有問題啦但我覺得兩年後可能還會再延兩年吧這個部長會不會這樣"},{"start":173.195,"end":188.612,"text":"我跟委員的看法非常相近因為坦白講我們走訪很多宮廟確實到後來都是民法上面的問題不是公法或行政法的問題那你要把它規範變成是這樣子的一個保障的話確實很難"},{"start":191.125,"end":215.617,"text":"這個我們要讓全台灣人也知道啦我們這一個暫行條例第一個沒有強制性啦是鼓勵的性質啦我們是要解決長久以來的問題啦但這個長久以來的問題呢其實也不單純只有民法的問題啦我們必須要承認就是說有很多的宮廟其實它從以前"},{"start":217.038,"end":243.439,"text":"講句難聽一點的,有的更早的政府都清朝時代的時候他就在那邊了結果他後來現在發現他佔用國有地這個國有地的問題其實對他們來講也很難處理因為這坦白講也不是你內政部可以單獨處理的問題他有可能他也不讓售也不怎麼樣有的甚至也無法租用或什麼的我覺得這一塊"},{"start":246.226,"end":253.07,"text":"應該要跨部會去解決這個問題這個問題可以解決一些我不知道部長您的看法"},{"start":254.272,"end":280.313,"text":"報告委員跨部會能夠處理的包括地方政府能夠協助的其實我們都有在進行您現在所講到的就是行政系統跟司法系統不是不是不是我們司法院也有在幫忙處理這一塊這是我們現在碰到最難還有一個意願第一個就是說大部分的是產權不符規定的部分還有登記所有權人不同意的狀況那就牽涉到跟民法有關"},{"start":281.453,"end":307.833,"text":"我現在只有聚焦我現在這個問題只有聚焦它有國有地公有地的問題那有時候它地目它這個國有地它可能啊你這個就不能宗教寺廟使用啊對不對啊所以就卡在這裡就無法處理啦對不對那國有財產署也不敢處理啊對不對這個問題我也知道但是那個廟講句難聽一點的比中華民國政府來台灣還更早喔"},{"start":309.065,"end":328.697,"text":"所以現在最大的麻煩就是說我們沒有辦法祭出法則啦如果一般來講你祭出法則那個廟如果在國有財產的土地上面的話你可能要拆廟那這個是大事地方上的民代也好地方政府都不太敢處理這一塊那個是最大的麻煩部長"},{"start":329.838,"end":346.685,"text":"大家都不敢去處理,這個是沒有錯啦我現在講的就是一個事實嘛但很多有一些是卡在這裡他也不是不去辦,他會卡在這裡但講句難聽一點,這些國有地你也不可能叫他拆廟還地啊"},{"start":348.186,"end":363.383,"text":"對不對那我們就沒有辦法想一個比如說我就讓你長期租約或是讓售或怎麼樣然後呢只要你廟存在一天我們就讓你使用"},{"start":363.883,"end":366.586,"text":"但你如果真的有一天你廟遷走了你這個地 你看要還給國家 還給什麼我覺得 既然我們這個是戰刑條例我們也可以在戰刑條例裡面我們有戰刑的處置措施啊"},{"start":380.872,"end":401.645,"text":"那個委員您講對了其實我們在處理的過程當中也有想說能不能用長久承租的方式對啊其實也有這個案例但是這個案例上面他能夠承租多久還包括他的廟公啦他自己本身又要繼續租下去也是一個問題啦所以他的機制都在我幫你問問部長"},{"start":403.998,"end":423.208,"text":"這個你講的是可能這個廟公、這個廟方他可能想要去解決的他就會積極去處理但我們如果訂出一個規則來讓所有的宮廟都知道有這樣那他們就可以來處理了我覺得這是一個"},{"start":426.172,"end":447.621,"text":"好 市長你說好 謝謝委員關心事實上現行制度都是你講重點就好了 對我們是廟方 宗教團體可以先行陳出那陳出以後他會經過國有財團局的統一有一個統一書來 再做一個土地變更國有財團局不同意啦是那怎麼辦對 大部分都會統一啦沒有啊沒有啊 你看我的臉說沒有啊"},{"start":451.623,"end":467.514,"text":"就是很多都不同意所以我才說要跨部位去解決這個問題他就已經是在廟了那你也不可能做其他使用如果這個廟存在的時候我們就暫請我就是長期租用給如果你廟你要簽經或什麼的你要這土地要還給國家我們就是這樣去處理這個"},{"start":470.996,"end":495.814,"text":"你覺得咧?各位報告,那可能有些是涉及到我們低級的敏感地區,或者水源水質保護區,可能涉及到比較的連你自己都會找一堆藉口,找一堆理由了我知道這是法律的規定,那你說的那些,你就叫他們要拆掉就好啦如果叫你這樣,那就違法啦,他們要就拆掉啦"},{"start":497.029,"end":514.845,"text":"對不對我覺得法律的規定就已經是這樣沒有錯但我們今天要解決這個問題我們就是要這樣我覺得這是一個時間的問題這是你們回去好好想一想看怎麼解決這一個另外一個還有牽扯到有一些寺廟我們在寺廟普段登基的時候"},{"start":515.762,"end":523.571,"text":"他根本不知道也沒有那個他沒有來寺廟補辦登記所以他今天他要來解決他登記的問題他也沒辦法對不對所以我覺得這個是兩個比較大的問題"},{"start":533.843,"end":552.949,"text":"解決我剛剛說的用力的問題還有是不是想他如果當初他這個廟已經就是很久了他這個廟本來就存在了他那時候只是不懂法律或不懂什麼他沒有來寺廟補辦登記我們能不能讓他可以來用一個短期間讓他來補辦登記因為寺廟補辦登記的時候坦白說"},{"start":557.651,"end":576.341,"text":"很多人也不知道到底要不要,登記的會怎麼樣有一些這種,我覺得你解決這兩個,我認為可以解決目前70%所有我們要解決的問題你們回去好好想一想,然後跟我報告"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}