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部長你剛有提到就是說如果是沒有這個特別預算的話把這些這些都納入到一般的公務預算一定會排擠到其他的項目嘛就是投資之外總預算之下你不可能一直在年度預算裡面一直去就在年度預算裡面去增加嗎那我們本身持續案之外還有還有其他的新增案我們並不是把它全部擺到特別預算裡面去嘛還有其他的新增案"},{"start":418.51,"end":433.748,"text":"我們還有其他本來就是延續當中的軍事投資嘛所以你基本上來講的話你是沒有這麼大的空間你說要把它全部納入到我們的一般公會算是不可能的事情嘛所以剛剛院長提到就是說可能我們會尋求不同的途徑"},{"start":435.154,"end":457.44,"text":"不同的途徑很可能是追加預算有些可能會納入一般的公務預算很可能還會有特別條例我們來把這個4700億的這個項目我們來做處理是這樣子的方式嗎至於要新編一個特別條例特別預算或是用追加的方式或是部分在公務預算當中我們請國防部在研擬一個內容跟程序以及時效上"},{"start":458.22,"end":473.987,"text":"最能夠幫助整個國防國內的軍工產業以及國防整體需求發展的這個目的來做一個整密的規範那未來我們一定會儘快的依照實施來提出這樣的方式特別預算它是為了某一個特別的正式目的"},{"start":475.087,"end":502.242,"text":"長年度的 穩定的也排除了一些預算上面的限制它一定有它的必要性跟它的實際效果那全部放到公共預算當中我們還有很多的社會福利基礎建設 科技發展 經濟發展那難免發生排擠現在經濟發展這麼好政府應該用更多的力量要來協助這些產業那我們同時如果用特別預算來支援國防的話那這個平衡點就會比較容易給我們掌握到"},{"start":502.762,"end":516.263,"text":"是因為國防特別條例在過去在城市委員會其實被擋了將近十次我們本席比較擔心的是每一次提出一個特別條例的話在野黨固定就不讓你出這個城市委員會其實這對整個軍備的"},{"start":517.985,"end":545.249,"text":"这个准备来讲其实是一个延宕故意延迟故意延宕这是本期所担心的那当然部长刚刚有院长刚刚有提到就是说我们编列这个特别预算最主要是避免一些排挤的效应比如说我们要保障教育社福还有支出这些不被呢被排挤掉嘛所以我们才会有这个特别条例当然在这当中呢在野党在审核这个1.25招军事特别条例说就批说这1.25招是穷兵毒武"},{"start":545.729,"end":567.821,"text":"現在在野黨就是說你這樣子會排擠到醫護軍人的加薪、社福長照、健保跟年薪這是非常矛盾的說法你當初在我們在選這個特別預算的特別條例的時候你就說你會排擠到這些可是現在倒過來又在說我們這些被刪除的這個項目可以列入公務預算那不是自打嘴巴嗎"},{"start":569.102,"end":584.821,"text":"我們在財務的規劃上面我們是非常小心謹慎的一方面要堅守財政的紀律一方面要考慮到各部會的均衡發展以及其他各個項目的一個規劃所以儲蓄總署在對各個部會送來的預算當中他都會做很嚴格的審查"},{"start":586.863,"end":607.716,"text":"那不容易說讓一個國防部的預算都突然間的大幅增長把其他的都壓下來那這個會失去平衡性的所以我們也不容許財務的規劃是這樣子OK那再來還有一點就是美國海外這個軍購的流程過去我們有了解就是說從以前到現在其實大概它的流程是有分四個階段"},{"start":608.656,"end":622.381,"text":"比如說第一階段是買方尋加拉第二階段採購協調第三階段就是智慧國會國會跟簽訂這個發價數第四階段就會進入這個執行的這個階段那現在在野黨的他堅持就是說你要拿到這個"},{"start":623.621,"end":643.489,"text":"美國的發價書我們才要讓你來編預算那像之前我有聽我們部長對媒體曾經說過說像過往過往其實都是在美方提出供售意願的時候其實我們就來這個編列這個預算然後送成這個預算這等於就是說"},{"start":644.409,"end":668.687,"text":"在野黨現在在第三階段拿到發價書他才要編預算可是第三階段到第四階段當中時間是非常的緊迫據本席所知是只有45天因為第一階段第二階段其實我們了解說像這個時間是非常的冗長可能需要兩年的時間可是第三階段到第四階段其實只有45天的這個時間我想請教院長如果"},{"start":669.107,"end":684.712,"text":"以後所有的這個對美軍購都必須要拿到這個發價書然後呢我們才要來編這個預算對整個時間的這個壓力來講那會不會造成到後來來不及可能整個軍購案的產生變化"},{"start":686.212,"end":708.772,"text":"會不會有這種狀況我來請部長答問 謝謝委員肯定委員對於這個軍購程序的這樣一個專業的對話而不是用常識來詢問這個部長所以提出這幾項都是我們軍購現在面臨的一些專業上的程序問題那至於說是不是發價書來了以後我們再編預算這樣不正當的言論請部長來做說明"},{"start":710.273,"end":733.792,"text":"我想委員已經在說明很清楚也就是說我們LOA出去之後那麼提出這個供售的意願之後那我們應該就要編列這個預算的計畫那麼這個叫做計畫預算制度那送進來之後讓委員有時間好好的審查認為這一個美方有一個供售的意願那我們這個有購買的意願"},{"start":737.134,"end":752.706,"text":"立法院同不同意這一個預算案預算案如果還沒有知會國會之前我們就採機密預算的方式來檢視你那如果已經知會國會我們就公開現在這個所有過往以來都是按照這個程序所以特別再打拆一下"},{"start":753.146,"end":772.751,"text":"所謂的過往當然也包含了國民黨執政的時候對美軍共也是這麼進行的嘛不管是年度預算或者是用特別預算的方式都是先送出這個預算案出來來供委員審查因為委員要有時間來了解這整個預算的一個必要性"},{"start":773.231,"end":791.642,"text":"那這個預算的標籤審查完之後那麼剛剛已經講了他還有兩段程序一個是智慧國會的程序那事實上智慧國會完之後就已經正式的表明了美方對我們的承諾了因為軍售就是一個美方對我們的承諾那這樣的一個承諾已經出來之後說還要等到這個發價書"},{"start":793.763,"end":814.905,"text":"我覺得這個都跟我們的計劃預算的這種制度完全不合所以很可能那如果說再舉個例子來講好了我們剛剛通過的這個國防特別條例他們當然在野黨他的版本當然就是說有拿到發價書他就列在這上頭了嘛所以明天這個預算就進來了"},{"start":817.087,"end":839.892,"text":"它就會變成有一個就像現在這個問題就是說現在只是特別條例過對不對各位都還沒有看到這個預算案對不對那現在就是說那我們就馬上提預算那事實上我們發價書簽訂那個時候我們本來要預算過才能夠簽訂發價書嘛這個立法有決議的所以本來是要預算通過我們才能夠簽訂發價書所以當時為什麼還要"},{"start":842.591,"end":870.105,"text":"這個立法院特別還要開個會來授權我們簽署這個發架書就是因為當時不但說預算還沒有過連特別條例都還沒有過所以我們還要請立法院先行授權那這是第一個第二個就是說我們國會之後事實上已經確定了美方的一個正式已經成案了那在這個時候為什麼一定要等到發架書過來我其實一直不太理解"},{"start":870.365,"end":896.94,"text":"所以刻意刁難嘛部長應該同意啊我雖然不敢自費這個大院的議程排定但是今天跟明天這兩個議程應該是倒過來才對是的OK好那再來一個時間的關係我再問一下因為大家都很關心海馬士多管火箭系統因為本來的首期款原定是在今年的3月30號要付款那後續呢已經延到5月31號那今天已經5月19號了請問這個部分"},{"start":899.221,"end":927.702,"text":"我們5月31號有可能付這個款項嗎有可能嗎如果預算還沒有過的話我們就是引用預算法的84條先請求我們同意能夠支付讓我們國防部就協調我們用既有的預算然後來在立法院這個在行政院對不起在行政院同意之下依照預算法的84條我們先行支用好現在看起來我們對美"},{"start":938.974,"end":938.994,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:28:53.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:28:54.686000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T15:28:54.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:28:55.126000+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:28:55.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:28:55.487000+08:00","text":"羅委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:28:55.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:28:55.587000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:28:55.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:29:23.846000+08:00","text":"本席再次強調，5月8號我們所通過的國防特別條例，它就是條例，其實後面還有預算要送進來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:29:23.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:29:29.368000+08:00","text":"我想請教院長，我們的國防特別預算什麼時候會送到立法院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:29:31.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:29:38.651000+08:00","text":"根據特別條例當中的規定，是希望我們對第一批發價書先做一個專案報告，也就是現在我們在進行的程序。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:29:40.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:29:45.693000+08:00","text":"這個專案報告我們來這裡跟委員做清楚答復之後，就可以進行後續的預算編列。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:29:46.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:30:03.304000+08:00","text":"其實後續的預算編列，我們事先都已經在國防部縝密規劃當中，時間上的安排，我們會在明天就召開臨時的行政院院會通過軍購的特別預算，期待能夠儘速送到大院進行審查。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:30:04.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:30:40.941000+08:00","text":"是，等國防特別預算送到立法院之後，我們才會審這個預算的項目，所以，其實國防特別條例訂定的是一個大原則，看起來在野黨……像剛才民眾黨邱慧洳委員有特別提到，他真的是把國防特別條例跟國防特別預算搞混了，這兩個不一樣，有前後的順序，其實後續我們還要審國防特別預算。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:30:41.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:31:04.251000+08:00","text":"國防特別條例雖然在5月8號通過了，可是由原來的1.25兆，被在野黨限縮到只有7,800億，全面排除了商購、委製跟臺美技術合作的項目，嚴重破壞我國整體建軍規劃及防衛韌性的布局。","quality":0.639},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:31:05.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:31:31.304000+08:00","text":"剛剛一開始何欣純委員有提到4,700億刪掉的是有如整個作戰系統大腦的AI指管系統，還有無人載具也被在野黨刪除，甚至國防自主非紅產業鏈以及後勤韌性等等，全部都被刪除了。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:31:32.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:31:49.290000+08:00","text":"剛剛提到的4,700億不會因為在野黨的阻擾就放棄了，不可能嘛，所以我一直提到，到底往後要如何補救這個部分？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:31:51.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:32:23.637000+08:00","text":"剛剛我也聽了賴士葆委員提到不能再用特別條例，可是他又提到要弄一個無人機產業條例，我實在聽得非常混亂，我想在場的各位官員也感到非常的混亂，如果是按照賴士葆委員所提，以後每一樣都要有特別條例，譬如有無人艇特別條例、無人載具特別條例、AI輔助系統特別條例，每一次都要有特別條例，有可能這樣嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:32:24.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:32:27.899000+08:00","text":"請問院長，以後4,700億到底要如何做補救？","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:32:29.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:32:50.328000+08:00","text":"好，我們說過關於臺灣之盾，以及要引進AI科技的擊殺鏈，還有形成自主的工業產業，這三塊拼圖缺一不可，我們跟國際的合作也不可推遲，另外軍工國防自主的發展也不可放棄。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:32:50.328000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:32:51.328000+08:00","text":"是，當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:32:50.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:33:21.916000+08:00","text":"所以我們對最後的4,700億部分，除了委辦、商購之外，還有臺美的合作、軍工自主產業的發展，我們會持續依照預算做各種的補救，國防部已經在仔細的作業當中，期待今天在這裡的專案報告，以及明天的特別預算能夠送出來，之後我們會尋求憲法及預算法的規定來補救這4,700億，總之要完成剛剛說的三塊拼圖，缺一不可。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:33:22.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:33:34.065000+08:00","text":"對，我們在審查國防特別條例的時候，在野黨說4,700億的部分雖然刪除了，可是可以把它納入一般的公務預算。","quality":0.614},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:33:34.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:34:11.941000+08:00","text":"之前我有聽黃文啓司長提到，他說以115年度的國防公務預算為例，軍事投資預算是1,616億，其中已簽約的持續案已經高達1,532億，真正可以新增建軍的空間只有84億，如果按照這樣計算，4,700億以8年分攤，表示一年可能增加的部分是五百八十幾億，也就是軍事投資的部分一年就要增加500億，有可能嗎？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:34:12.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:34:14.324000+08:00","text":"請問部長，有這個空間嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:34:14.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:35:10.159000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想最主要是公務預算……今年的預算已經提高相當高的百分比，應該是7%到8%，在軍事投資部分能夠容納的新增案項大概只有八十四億多，後續的年度預算新增的案項還有將近700億可能需要擺進來，我們也是分年在做規劃，所以新增的軍事投資案項除了持續案之外，新增案項納入年度預算本身就很吃緊，所以我們才會提出這個特別預算，這個特別預算能夠跟年度預算一起做的話，在不排擠政府其他重要施政的前提下，就能夠達到作戰需求的目標，這是我們想望的，所以才會提出這樣的一個特別條例出來。OK。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:35:10.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:35:22.704000+08:00","text":"部長剛剛有提到，如果沒有這個特別預算的話，把這些都納入到一般的公務預算，一定會排擠到其他的項目，除了軍事投資之外，還有其他的……","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:35:24.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:35:28.986000+08:00","text":"國防預算在總預算之下，不可能一直在年度預算裡面去增加。是。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:35:29.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:35:38.070000+08:00","text":"我們本身除了持續案之外，還有其他的新增案，我們並不是把它全部擺到特別預算裡面去，還有其他的新增案。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:35:39.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:35:42.774000+08:00","text":"是，當然，我們還有其他本來就在延續當中的軍事投資。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:35:42.774000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:35:43.774000+08:00","text":"對，我們有很多。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:35:42.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:36:08.637000+08:00","text":"所以基本上來講的話，你是沒有這麼大的空間，你說要把它全部納入我們的一般公務預算，這是不可能的事情，所以剛剛院長提到，可能我們會尋求不同的途徑，不同的途徑很可能是追加預算，有一些可能會納入一般的公務預算，很可能還會有特別條例，我們來把這4,700億的項目做處理，是這樣子的方式嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:36:08.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:36:30.665000+08:00","text":"是，至於要新編一個特別條例、特別預算，或是用追加的方式，或者是部分在公務預算當中，我們請國防部再研議一個內容跟程序，以及時效上最能夠幫助整個國內的軍工產業，以及國防整體需求發展的目的，來做一個縝密的規範，未來我們一定會儘快提出這樣的方式。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:36:31.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:36:44.272000+08:00","text":"特別預算是為了某一個特別的政事目的，長年度的、穩定的，也排除了一些預算上面的限制，它一定有它的必要性跟實際效果……","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:36:44.272000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:36:45.272000+08:00","text":"對，很可惜在野黨不理解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:36:44.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:37:03.222000+08:00","text":"全部放到公務預算當中，我們還有很多的社會福利、基礎建設、科技發展、經濟發展，難免發生排擠，現在經濟發展這麼好，政府應該用更多的力量來協助這些產業，我們如果同時用特別預算來支應國防的話，這個平衡點就會比較容易掌握到。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:37:03.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:37:24.590000+08:00","text":"因為國防特別條例過去在程序委員會，其實被擋了將近10次，本席比較擔心的是每一次提出一個特別條例，在野黨就故意不讓你出程序委員會，這對整個軍備的整備來講其實是一個延宕，故意延遲、故意延宕，這是本席所擔心的。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:37:25.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:37:37.681000+08:00","text":"當然部長跟院長剛剛有提到，我們編列這個特別預算最主要是避免一些排擠的效應，比如說我們要保障教育、社福支出不被排擠掉，所以我們才會有特別條例。","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:37:38.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:38:08.821000+08:00","text":"當然在這當中，在野黨在審核1.25兆軍事特別條例的時候，就批說這1.25兆是窮兵黷武，又說這樣子會排擠到醫護、軍人加薪、社福、長照、健保跟年金，這是非常矛盾的說法，當初我們在審這個特別條例的時候，你就說會排擠到這些，可是現在倒過來又在說，我們這些被刪除的項目可以列入公務預算，那不是自打嘴巴嗎？","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:38:10.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:38:38.089000+08:00","text":"所以我們在財務的規劃上面是非常小心謹慎的，一方面要堅守財政的紀律、一方面要考慮到各部會的均衡發展，以及其他各個項目的規劃，所以主計總處對各個部會送來的預算都會做很嚴格的審查，不容易讓一個國防部的預算突然間大幅增長，把其他的都壓下來，那這個會失去平衡性的，所以我們也不容許財務的規劃是這樣子。OK。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:38:38.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:39:00.060000+08:00","text":"再來還有一點，就是美國海外軍購的流程，過去我們有了解，從以前到現在，其實它的流程大概是分四個階段：比如說第一階段是買方詢價；第二階段採購協調；第三階段就是知會國會跟簽訂發價書；第四階段就會進入執行的階段。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:39:00.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:39:47.945000+08:00","text":"那現在在野黨堅持你要拿到美國的發價書才要讓你來編預算，像之前我有聽我們部長對媒體說過，過往其實都是在美方提出供售意願的時候，我們就來編列這個預算或送審這個預算，所以等於就是說，在野黨現在在第三階段拿到發價書才要編預算，可是第三階段到第四階段當中，時間非常緊迫，據本席所知是只有45天，因為第一階段、第二階段，其實我們了解這個時間是非常冗長，可能需要兩年的時間，可是第三階段到第四階段其實只有45天的時間。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:39:47.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:40:08.854000+08:00","text":"我想請教院長，如果以後所有的對美軍購都必須要拿到發價書，我們才來編這個預算，對整個時間壓力來講，會不會造成到後來來不及，可能整個軍購案產生變化，會不會有這種狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:40:08.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:40:09.454000+08:00","text":"我等一下請部長答復。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:40:10.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:40:29.752000+08:00","text":"我很謝謝委員、很肯定委員對於軍購程序這樣的專業對話，而不是用常識來詢問部長，所以提出的這幾項都是我們軍購現在面臨的一些專業上程序問題，至於是不是發價書來了以後，我們再編預算，這樣不正當的言論，請部長來做說明。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:40:29.752000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:40:31.273000+08:00","text":"是，請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:40:31.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:41:00.696000+08:00","text":"我想委員已經說明得很清楚了，也就是我們LOR for LOA出去，美方提出供售的意願之後，我們應該就要編列這個預算的計畫，這個叫做計畫預算制度，送進來之後，讓委員有時間好好的審查，美方有供售的意願、我們有購買的意願，立法院同不同意這樣的預算案。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:41:01.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:41:12.425000+08:00","text":"預算案如果還沒有知會國會之前，我們就採機密預算的方式來進行審理，如果已經知會國會，我們就公開，過往都是按照這個程序，所以特別條例……","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:41:13.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:41:21.288000+08:00","text":"打岔一下，所謂的過往，當然也包含國民黨執政的時候，對美的軍購也是這麼進行的，對不對？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:41:22.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:41:59.728000+08:00","text":"歷來都是如此，不管是年度預算或者是用特別預算的方式，都是先送出這個預算案供委員審查，因為委員要有時間來了解這整個預算的必要性，這個預算的必要性審查完之後，剛剛已經講了，還有兩段程序，一個是知會國會的程序，事實上，知會國會完之後，就已經正式表明美方對我們的承諾了，因為軍售就是美方對我們的承諾，這樣的承諾出來之後，說還要等到發價書，我覺得這個都跟我們的計畫預算制度完全不合。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:42:03.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:42:15.885000+08:00","text":"舉個例子來講好了，我們剛剛通過的這個國防特別條例，在野黨的版本當然是有拿到發價書就列在這上頭了，所以明天這個預算就進來了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:42:18.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:42:23.288000+08:00","text":"對，它就會有這個問題，就是現在只是特別條例過，對不對？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:42:23.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:42:26.629000+08:00","text":"各位委員都還沒有看到這個預算案，對不對？對。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:42:26.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:42:48.013000+08:00","text":"現在我們就馬上提預算，事實上，我們本來要預算過才能夠簽訂發價書，這個立法院有決議的，本來是要預算通過，我們才能夠簽訂發價書，所以當時為什麼立法院還要特別開個會來授權我們簽署發價書？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:42:48.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:42:56.698000+08:00","text":"就是因為當時不但預算還沒有過，連特別條例都還沒有過，所以我們還要請立法院先行授權，這是第一個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:42:56.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:43:11.085000+08:00","text":"第二個，知會國會之後，事實上，已經確定美方正式成案了，在這個時候，為什麼一定要等到發價書過來，我其實一直不太理解……","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:43:11.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:43:12.206000+08:00","text":"所以是刻意刁難嘛！OK……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:43:13.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:43:21.511000+08:00","text":"部長應該同意，我雖然不敢置喙大院的議程排定，但是今天跟明天這兩個議程應該是倒過來才對。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:43:21.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:43:22.671000+08:00","text":"是的，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:43:23.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:43:44.064000+08:00","text":"再來，因為時間的關係，我再問一下，大家都很關心海馬士多管火箭系統，因為本來首期款原訂在今年3月30日要付款，後續已經延到5月31日，今天已經5月19日了，請問我們5月31日有可能付這個款項嗎？","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:43:44.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:43:45.445000+08:00","text":"有可能嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:43:45.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:06.220000+08:00","text":"如果預算還沒有過的話，我們就是引用預算法第八十四條，先行請求同意我們能夠支付，國防部就協調，用既有的預算，在行政院同意之下，依照預算法第八十四條，我們先行支用。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:07.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:08.682000+08:00","text":"好，現在看起來，我們對美……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:08.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:14.338000+08:00","text":"但是前提可能要先付委，付委之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:14.338000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:19.994000+08:00","text":"是，現在看起來，對美軍購是國內在野黨設下了層層的障礙，讓人非常遺憾！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員美玲","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:19.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:19.994000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:20.494000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:21.636857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:21.936857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:24.794000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T15:44:25.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T15:44:28.236857+08:00","text":"下一位請馬文君委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}