{"error":false,"id":["169427"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169427,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169427","日期":"2026-05-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-5-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期第10次會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第5會期第10次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-19T15:28:41+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-19T15:44:21+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8880074e6a4cf30beea53ff4a9e80c7ea9272009bde436eabc4933aab1f43f73c5914fa0a6f3b7f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"15:28:41 - 15:44:21","會議時間":"2026-05-19T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.231593750000002,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.442218750000002,"end":14.459093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.47596875,"end":15.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.26346875,"end":24.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.360343750000002,"end":26.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.929718750000003,"end":28.043468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.414718750000002,"end":29.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.96721875,"end":34.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.79346875,"end":35.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.53159375,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.47221875,"end":48.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.99784375,"end":52.275968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.799093750000004,"end":58.165343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.642218750000005,"end":58.064093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.587218750000005,"end":59.61659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.751593750000005,"end":62.282843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.46846875000001,"end":64.88159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.32034375,"end":69.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.94409375000001,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.28471875000001,"end":78.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.22534375000001,"end":82.95471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.95471875000001,"end":131.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.11784375,"end":92.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.06096875,"end":153.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.40784375,"end":163.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.57909375,"end":179.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.69471875000002,"end":186.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.97221875000002,"end":188.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.82846875,"end":196.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.94534375,"end":198.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.98721875,"end":228.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.61971875,"end":228.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.63659375,"end":229.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.02034375000002,"end":234.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.30659375000002,"end":235.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.87596875000003,"end":240.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.60096875000002,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.50784375,"end":243.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.97596875000002,"end":245.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.01784375000003,"end":246.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.26659375000003,"end":249.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.54471875000002,"end":250.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.83159375000002,"end":263.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.36534375,"end":263.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.15846875,"end":264.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.98534375,"end":265.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.01471875000004,"end":267.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.24221875,"end":274.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.97534375000004,"end":281.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.48909375,"end":322.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.52909375,"end":332.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.33346875,"end":332.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.36721875,"end":371.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.55284375,"end":333.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.36971875,"end":343.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.65596875,"end":348.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.01721875000004,"end":358.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.71971875,"end":388.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.10659375,"end":380.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.99971875,"end":400.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.54221875,"end":403.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.59284375000004,"end":406.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.09034375000005,"end":403.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.49909375000004,"end":410.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.57471875000005,"end":408.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start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部長你剛有提到就是說如果是沒有這個特別預算的話把這些這些都納入到一般的公務預算一定會排擠到其他的項目嘛就是投資之外總預算之下你不可能一直在年度預算裡面一直去就在年度預算裡面去增加嗎那我們本身持續案之外還有還有其他的新增案我們並不是把它全部擺到特別預算裡面去嘛還有其他的新增案"},{"start":418.51,"end":433.748,"text":"我們還有其他本來就是延續當中的軍事投資嘛所以你基本上來講的話你是沒有這麼大的空間你說要把它全部納入到我們的一般公會算是不可能的事情嘛所以剛剛院長提到就是說可能我們會尋求不同的途徑"},{"start":435.154,"end":457.44,"text":"不同的途徑很可能是追加預算有些可能會納入一般的公務預算很可能還會有特別條例我們來把這個4700億的這個項目我們來做處理是這樣子的方式嗎至於要新編一個特別條例特別預算或是用追加的方式或是部分在公務預算當中我們請國防部在研擬一個內容跟程序以及時效上"},{"start":458.22,"end":473.987,"text":"最能夠幫助整個國防國內的軍工產業以及國防整體需求發展的這個目的來做一個整密的規範那未來我們一定會儘快的依照實施來提出這樣的方式特別預算它是為了某一個特別的正式目的"},{"start":475.087,"end":502.242,"text":"長年度的 穩定的也排除了一些預算上面的限制它一定有它的必要性跟它的實際效果那全部放到公共預算當中我們還有很多的社會福利基礎建設 科技發展 經濟發展那難免發生排擠現在經濟發展這麼好政府應該用更多的力量要來協助這些產業那我們同時如果用特別預算來支援國防的話那這個平衡點就會比較容易給我們掌握到"},{"start":502.762,"end":516.263,"text":"是因為國防特別條例在過去在城市委員會其實被擋了將近十次我們本席比較擔心的是每一次提出一個特別條例的話在野黨固定就不讓你出這個城市委員會其實這對整個軍備的"},{"start":517.985,"end":545.249,"text":"这个准备来讲其实是一个延宕故意延迟故意延宕这是本期所担心的那当然部长刚刚有院长刚刚有提到就是说我们编列这个特别预算最主要是避免一些排挤的效应比如说我们要保障教育社福还有支出这些不被呢被排挤掉嘛所以我们才会有这个特别条例当然在这当中呢在野党在审核这个1.25招军事特别条例说就批说这1.25招是穷兵毒武"},{"start":545.729,"end":567.821,"text":"現在在野黨就是說你這樣子會排擠到醫護軍人的加薪、社福長照、健保跟年薪這是非常矛盾的說法你當初在我們在選這個特別預算的特別條例的時候你就說你會排擠到這些可是現在倒過來又在說我們這些被刪除的這個項目可以列入公務預算那不是自打嘴巴嗎"},{"start":569.102,"end":584.821,"text":"我們在財務的規劃上面我們是非常小心謹慎的一方面要堅守財政的紀律一方面要考慮到各部會的均衡發展以及其他各個項目的一個規劃所以儲蓄總署在對各個部會送來的預算當中他都會做很嚴格的審查"},{"start":586.863,"end":607.716,"text":"那不容易說讓一個國防部的預算都突然間的大幅增長把其他的都壓下來那這個會失去平衡性的所以我們也不容許財務的規劃是這樣子OK那再來還有一點就是美國海外這個軍購的流程過去我們有了解就是說從以前到現在其實大概它的流程是有分四個階段"},{"start":608.656,"end":622.381,"text":"比如說第一階段是買方尋加拉第二階段採購協調第三階段就是智慧國會國會跟簽訂這個發價數第四階段就會進入這個執行的這個階段那現在在野黨的他堅持就是說你要拿到這個"},{"start":623.621,"end":643.489,"text":"美國的發價書我們才要讓你來編預算那像之前我有聽我們部長對媒體曾經說過說像過往過往其實都是在美方提出供售意願的時候其實我們就來這個編列這個預算然後送成這個預算這等於就是說"},{"start":644.409,"end":668.687,"text":"在野黨現在在第三階段拿到發價書他才要編預算可是第三階段到第四階段當中時間是非常的緊迫據本席所知是只有45天因為第一階段第二階段其實我們了解說像這個時間是非常的冗長可能需要兩年的時間可是第三階段到第四階段其實只有45天的這個時間我想請教院長如果"},{"start":669.107,"end":684.712,"text":"以後所有的這個對美軍購都必須要拿到這個發價書然後呢我們才要來編這個預算對整個時間的這個壓力來講那會不會造成到後來來不及可能整個軍購案的產生變化"},{"start":686.212,"end":708.772,"text":"會不會有這種狀況我來請部長答問 謝謝委員肯定委員對於這個軍購程序的這樣一個專業的對話而不是用常識來詢問這個部長所以提出這幾項都是我們軍購現在面臨的一些專業上的程序問題那至於說是不是發價書來了以後我們再編預算這樣不正當的言論請部長來做說明"},{"start":710.273,"end":733.792,"text":"我想委員已經在說明很清楚也就是說我們LOA出去之後那麼提出這個供售的意願之後那我們應該就要編列這個預算的計畫那麼這個叫做計畫預算制度那送進來之後讓委員有時間好好的審查認為這一個美方有一個供售的意願那我們這個有購買的意願"},{"start":737.134,"end":752.706,"text":"立法院同不同意這一個預算案預算案如果還沒有知會國會之前我們就採機密預算的方式來檢視你那如果已經知會國會我們就公開現在這個所有過往以來都是按照這個程序所以特別再打拆一下"},{"start":753.146,"end":772.751,"text":"所謂的過往當然也包含了國民黨執政的時候對美軍共也是這麼進行的嘛不管是年度預算或者是用特別預算的方式都是先送出這個預算案出來來供委員審查因為委員要有時間來了解這整個預算的一個必要性"},{"start":773.231,"end":791.642,"text":"那這個預算的標籤審查完之後那麼剛剛已經講了他還有兩段程序一個是智慧國會的程序那事實上智慧國會完之後就已經正式的表明了美方對我們的承諾了因為軍售就是一個美方對我們的承諾那這樣的一個承諾已經出來之後說還要等到這個發價書"},{"start":793.763,"end":814.905,"text":"我覺得這個都跟我們的計劃預算的這種制度完全不合所以很可能那如果說再舉個例子來講好了我們剛剛通過的這個國防特別條例他們當然在野黨他的版本當然就是說有拿到發價書他就列在這上頭了嘛所以明天這個預算就進來了"},{"start":817.087,"end":839.892,"text":"它就會變成有一個就像現在這個問題就是說現在只是特別條例過對不對各位都還沒有看到這個預算案對不對那現在就是說那我們就馬上提預算那事實上我們發價書簽訂那個時候我們本來要預算過才能夠簽訂發價書嘛這個立法有決議的所以本來是要預算通過我們才能夠簽訂發價書所以當時為什麼還要"},{"start":842.591,"end":870.105,"text":"這個立法院特別還要開個會來授權我們簽署這個發架書就是因為當時不但說預算還沒有過連特別條例都還沒有過所以我們還要請立法院先行授權那這是第一個第二個就是說我們國會之後事實上已經確定了美方的一個正式已經成案了那在這個時候為什麼一定要等到發架書過來我其實一直不太理解"},{"start":870.365,"end":896.94,"text":"所以刻意刁難嘛部長應該同意啊我雖然不敢自費這個大院的議程排定但是今天跟明天這兩個議程應該是倒過來才對是的OK好那再來一個時間的關係我再問一下因為大家都很關心海馬士多管火箭系統因為本來的首期款原定是在今年的3月30號要付款那後續呢已經延到5月31號那今天已經5月19號了請問這個部分"},{"start":899.221,"end":927.702,"text":"我們5月31號有可能付這個款項嗎有可能嗎如果預算還沒有過的話我們就是引用預算法的84條先請求我們同意能夠支付讓我們國防部就協調我們用既有的預算然後來在立法院這個在行政院對不起在行政院同意之下依照預算法的84條我們先行支用好現在看起來我們對美"},{"start":938.974,"end":938.994,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}