{"error":false,"id":["169428"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169428,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169428","日期":"2026-05-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-5-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期第10次會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第5會期第10次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-19T15:44:31+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-19T16:00:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8880074e6a4cf30b67526c16f3216707a9272009bde436eabb1c87f72f231e0d6304fc2c5abcbb3c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"15:44:31 - 16:00:19","會議時間":"2026-05-19T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.236593750000001,"end":7.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.27034375,"end":7.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.30409375,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.62846875,"end":13.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.17096875,"end":22.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.52534375,"end":40.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.767218750000005,"end":48.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.18346875,"end":54.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.13659375,"end":55.515968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.515968750000006,"end":55.549718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.055968750000005,"end":60.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.12284375,"end":67.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.32846875,"end":67.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.37909375000001,"end":77.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.38159375000001,"end":80.86221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.15346875,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.67221875,"end":84.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.20346875,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.07596875,"end":136.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.31409375,"end":134.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.49909375000001,"end":152.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.05034375,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":147.97409375,"end":148.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.41221875000002,"end":156.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.76596875,"end":158.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.98096875000002,"end":187.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.49534375000002,"end":195.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.03534375,"end":188.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.73471875,"end":259.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.43346875000003,"end":262.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.02784375000005,"end":264.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.76596875,"end":271.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.27971875000003,"end":273.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.37221875,"end":278.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.73409375,"end":280.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.67909375,"end":343.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.99971875,"end":281.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.30721875,"end":284.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.65721875,"end":286.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.78784375000004,"end":288.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.98471875,"end":297.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.83596875,"end":304.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.01096875,"end":346.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.99784375,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.10721875,"end":365.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":365.45909375,"end":382.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.94159375000004,"end":387.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.86909375000005,"end":398.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.63159375000004,"end":398.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.44971875000005,"end":399.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.61846875000003,"end":398.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.97284375000004,"end":399.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.14159375,"end":399.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.19221875000005,"end":401.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.14534375000005,"end":406.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.60034375000004,"end":430.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.43659375000004,"end":445.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.59534375000004,"end":438.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.62909375000004,"end":439.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.72096875000005,"end":467.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.58096875,"end":449.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.32159375000003,"end":462.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.33846875,"end":467.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.48534375,"end":467.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.73846875000004,"end":467.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.77221875000004,"end":479.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.67034375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麻煩請院長請院長備詢"},{"start":22.213,"end":47.31,"text":"好委員好 院長午安院長今天因為特別主要是針對特別條例的部分那剛剛有委員有關切到就是F16V這個部分部長有提到說今年可能會有一架會先回來台灣那我想要請教一下這個F16V要回台灣的這一架裡面有沒有電站夾長"},{"start":50.399,"end":77.093,"text":"現在他這個這一架有五十幾架已經在線上作業我說這一架有沒有電站夾艙部長說我們有到有相關人員去了解過來對我跟索英跟委員報告並不是說只有回來一架我是說預期今年的九月可能會先回來這個好部長沒關係不管回來幾架我現在要知道的是說我們如果現在要回來的F16V裡面有沒有電站夾艙"},{"start":79.108,"end":96.161,"text":"電站夾艙的部分今年要來的我的了解是可能應該我們的第一架的電站夾因為我買的並不是每一個飛機上面都有這個電站夾艙有 我們現在F16V上面都是有內建式的電站夾艙當時我們F16AB升級案是"},{"start":99.804,"end":126.861,"text":"本來有要做電站夾艙後來就是因為採購了後面這66架因為裡面有內建所以那時候就把那些案子稍微停下來我們現在還沒有追究原來的那些預算用到哪裡去了可是我們要知道的是現在F16V如果要回來今年要回來裡面有沒有電站夾艙因為告訴我們的是有我們買的預算裡面也是有"},{"start":127.301,"end":155.819,"text":"所以這個部分我們請國防部到時候釐清楚以後我們可以讓我們所有的全民很清楚好不好各位報告大概因為剛剛講的電站假倉因為我的了解是有居手的假倉還有紅外線徵收了一個假倉那電站假倉那這個部分我說的是電站假倉如果你說的是電站假倉的部分的話那應該是在F16V裡面F16V有所以我們今年回來的就會有是嗎"},{"start":158.004,"end":174.772,"text":"因為當時一直還沒有辦法回來這個也是一個很重要的因素因為不知道要決定哪一行如果說他今年可以回來表示裡面已經有決定而且裡面已經裝設了因為他是內建式的這個部分我先提醒我們的"},{"start":175.992,"end":197.257,"text":"行政院還有我們的國防部如果你說今年會回來我們希望他回來的就是我們買到的這些裝備都要齊全這是我們在這裡先提醒好不好對現在電站牆上在我想因為我們要求所以在研發這個當中那我想我們我下去會再確定一下那不是研發照理說他本來就有"},{"start":197.517,"end":218.169,"text":"可是他就for Taiwan所以他到底用什麼我們不知道可是已經今年最後一年沒有理由說他還沒有這樣子的一個決定性如果他能回來的話所以這個部分因為時間的關係顯然部長目前沒有辦法有確切的答案我們先在這裡做一個詢問如果有的話他是什麼樣的電站夾艙"},{"start":219.85,"end":245.398,"text":"那它今年會不會在我們的裝備裡面我先請教現在我們在接下來大概就是針對我們這個特別條例的部分當然行政院很希望通過的是1.25兆可是我們最後通過的版本為什麼會是7800億其實也是有經過大家的一些考量我們一直在講"},{"start":246.098,"end":260.097,"text":"尤其是軍事專業的大家很喜歡講物是抵之不來 事無有以待之所謂的有以待之那個有是應該要有具備相當的這些準備"},{"start":263.081,"end":277.892,"text":"包括我們的武器裝備那個有不是有預算就好了因為我們常常過去編了很多的預算我們看到很多的例子我們待會可以來討論一下我們當然希望有啊但委員把預算刪掉就是讓我們沒有沒有敵就來啦"},{"start":279.755,"end":304.424,"text":"院長我們先讓你等一下我會讓你知道我們為什麼沒有我們為什麼沒有你現在說的有院長剛剛你提到了嘛我說不是有預算是要有武器裝備那個東西我們已經付了錢我們先講你已經付了錢的你不要講還沒有的你以前付了錢都還沒有拿到"},{"start":304.944,"end":328.8,"text":"你以前付的錢都還沒有 剛剛講的F16V就是一個你們到現在也沒有辦法 今年最後一年 本來66架今年要倒欸如果你這樣講 這是完全失職 我們現在希望可以討論的是這個部分當你有很多都沒有到位的時候 我隨便再舉一個例子好了標槍飛彈 你們一直在說發架書 我們有一個四針飛彈"},{"start":329.981,"end":347.807,"text":"刺針飛彈惡武戰爭在打的時候我還有印象我們有民進黨的王定宇委員他還特別很高興的說像烏克蘭連一個老奶奶都可以拿著刺針飛彈就可以打敵人很容易操作 艱辛式的"},{"start":349.158,"end":359.385,"text":"可是我們在113年就因為這樣的理由不知道是不是啦我們本來買500枚在113年的時候我們又增加買多買了2000多枚從113 114起案我們有我們是破"},{"start":366.97,"end":373.132,"text":"就是增加購買從130億先聽我講完從130億增加到690億我們114年也有編預算今年也有編預算可是次增飛彈的發價書到目前為止還沒有來對不對"},{"start":388.118,"end":398.487,"text":"跟委員報告我想這個次增費單就是您講的現在就是說我們原來採購500枚的次增費單我們預計在今年底下對今年那個是加的我說我們這兩年還有發價書還沒有來對不對另外2121枚的部分確實還沒有取得發價書"},{"start":407.133,"end":432.407,"text":"對 已經兩年了 我們錢都編喔去年也編 今年也編可是發酵素還沒來所以剛剛你們在討論很多發酵素或者在特別條例討論的過程當中一直把發酵素拿出來講我們要講的是即使他們同意了 我們錢也編了他都不見得來這個是我們今天要特別提出來我們希望 預算案就會要先通過嘛所以我們"},{"start":433.127,"end":448.996,"text":"花架書確實沒有來這件事情我們要跟美方來商議但是我剛剛講的只是說我們計畫預算的精神就是說我們只要確定美方有供受意願我們就會先提出這個預算來供委員他有供受意願所以我們過了啊我們特別預算這個部分讓他過了"},{"start":449.736,"end":466.969,"text":"可是我要提醒的是我們有很多在這裡因為沒有辦法一一舉例在省預算的時候我們會提出來我們還有多少東西沒有拿到發價書可是我們錢一直編一直編一直編那就更不要說我們武器裝備什麼時候會拿到發價書就沒有付款的問題嗎沒有取得嗎"},{"start":467.83,"end":483.112,"text":"部長那個是錯的那不是沒有付款的問題你已經把它放到我們的戶頭裡面它已經框在那裡你的錢如果框在那裡你沒有辦法用在別的地方我們在FRB的戶頭那個還是屬於我們的而且還有知喜啊這個是屬於我們控制的"},{"start":483.473,"end":509.226,"text":"我們不要那些利息是你把錢框在那裡你就沒有辦法用到別的地方如果你今天這個條例過了然後明天又要一個條例後天又要一個條例如果你有很多沒有辦法到貨可是錢框在那裡並沒有用我們要的是有以待之是有那個武器裝備這是我們一直要強調的因為剛剛羅委員提出四個程序那就是現在國際上以及我跟美方軍購的"},{"start":510.647,"end":525.476,"text":"這個正常的程序先有供售的意願然後他還要報價資料外交官委員這麼久應該也知道這個預算的這個程序都是先有美黃供售意願我們就先行提出來了"},{"start":526.036,"end":554.145,"text":"過去發駕輸其實從來沒有發生問題所以只有在特別條例這裡出現那麼多這個你們可以去細究它的原因你說特別條例有發生問題你說這一次的特別條例嗎沒有啊不是特別條例是發駕輸沒有這麼多問題我沒有時間跟兩位談這個部分你現在有28個案子那當然你可以挑出其中某一個案子說還沒有取得發駕輸但是也有提前交運也有準時交運的那當然我們也不可否認也有一些延宕交運部長如果你要討論這一些"},{"start":555.825,"end":570.318,"text":"如果你要討論這些我們就要從頭來講了你F16V是我們最重要的主力戰機是現在空軍最依靠的一個戰機F16AV到現在十幾年了還沒有完成F16V"},{"start":571.779,"end":596.293,"text":"買了到現在最後一年66架還沒有到貨我們的潛艦往後延了兩年你們那個一邊是14年說因為要扒燒所以才可以阻敵於台灣海峽之外事實上台灣海峽根本不適合放潛艦可是當你們要潛的時候有人居然說那扒燒是經過美國的兵推還有台灣的漢光演習驗證的結果"},{"start":597.594,"end":615.106,"text":"那巴沙我們取得最快最快要16年以後還有我們的魚雷魚雷就是潛艦的武器今天我們潛艦機制做得再好今天如果讓你一個都做好了你沒有魚雷跟沒有拳頭是一樣的今天我們的"},{"start":616.447,"end":637.974,"text":"M16AB我們的飛彈系統到現在還沒有到貨已經超過好幾年了如果沒有飛彈它也等同於它的它的攻擊性其實是弱的如果你們要講這些的話我們現在要討論的是希望談別的我們有很多東西延宕了包括M1A2包括我們這個地表最強"},{"start":640.612,"end":667.114,"text":"我還沒講完M1A2它今年最後一批到貨可是你知道我們的訊廠還沒有做好嗎訊廠是我們台灣自己做的工廠到現在還沒有做好每一項都可以去講那我也可以要講M1A2到現在總預算都還沒有過人家已經交了總預算還沒有過對啊我們的M1A2最後一批的預算還沒有過哪一個部分沒有過M1A2戰車最後一批"},{"start":668.393,"end":685.198,"text":"我們今年總預算還沒過總預算還沒過你還是可以支出啊你還是可以支出啊這一個部分部長你很清楚我講的如果不能支出的是這個部分而且你很清楚如果在我們的那個戶頭裡面其實它是可以支用的因為它不是算得剛剛好"},{"start":691.96,"end":714.118,"text":"所以跟總預算是沒有關係的這個你非常清楚我們利用一點時間因為根據媒體的報導行政院是認為本次通過的版本排除商購以及偽製案嚴重損及國防建軍完整性以及五年兵力整建施政規劃跟排序會造成國防戰力的缺口會影響國內相關產業自主發展措施"},{"start":716.98,"end":737.85,"text":"跟國際安全供應鏈接軌的寶貴時機所以就這些部分認為遭刪除的部分會影響未來職管決策權益爭執還有台灣之盾防衛任性台美合作等等我們就這個特別條例的部分我們先簡單來討論一下因為最近執政黨也一直不斷的用"},{"start":739.592,"end":757.113,"text":"說刪減特別條例的預算就是在削弱台灣的防衛然後不照原案全數通過就是反對國防等等所以甚至把所有包括被檢視還有被刪減要求說明的這個項目都包裝成一句話叫台灣之盾"},{"start":757.714,"end":785.437,"text":"那本席今天要特別講清楚的是我們沒有反對建軍可是我們反對錯誤的建軍這個部分我們也不是不買武器可是不要買錯方向或買錯時間買錯系統最後花了天價也沒有形成真正的戰力因為國防預算它也不是政治口號也不是抗中保台就可以跳過監督首先我們來看看所謂的台灣之盾"},{"start":785.957,"end":814.056,"text":"它到底是戰力還是採購清單因為現在國防部是把增程型愛國者飛彈三型PAC-3MSE還有地對空飛彈還有包括像新雷達還有IBCS整合防空系統天空三型強攻飛彈普魯爪雷達這些全部劃到一張圖裡面說這是台灣之盾好像這樣就可以形成一個"},{"start":815.837,"end":828.232,"text":"完整的防空網可是本席想要請問院長跟部長這裡面剛剛提到的你們畫到這個防空網台灣之盾裡面的這些東西有哪些東西已經到貨"},{"start":829.963,"end":852.331,"text":"有多少系統已經完成整合然後有多少鏈路已經完成跨系統的接站測試或者有多少我們還在等他的還停留在這個軍售的規劃或發架書或者交貨的等待階段可不可以簡單的說明一下我們剛剛講的這些"},{"start":852.771,"end":867.341,"text":"跟委員報告大概就是說整體的防空系統我們可以分成高中低然後有反彈反飛機跟反無人機那這三個不同的一個防禦的都會有不同的武器所以現在要努力建置的就是在於這一個"},{"start":868.021,"end":888.081,"text":"我們將既有的跟現在獲得美資的以及未來獲得的我們透過一個整合的矛盾系統來連結做好這個火力協調因為剩下30秒你沒有聽清楚我的問題我知道高空低我說我剛剛念的那些就是高空低你們所謂的防禦可是這裡面哪些是經過驗測通過的是成熟的產品是經過你練錄"},{"start":891.724,"end":911.845,"text":"已經有可以連接的或者經過相關的測試這些有哪些已經做過了你可不可以提出來包括魚叉焙蛋跟雄蜂系列的廢蛋我們到現在還沒有辦法整合你未來要整合這麼多你要怎麼做台灣之盾那個是反建的不是你講的台灣之盾"},{"start":913.103,"end":926.916,"text":"部長你一直沒有聽清楚我說的我說台灣之頓你這些東西有哪些是你已經有經過接戰測試有多少鏈路已經完成這樣子的一個相關的整合"},{"start":936.715,"end":947.107,"text":"但是你放在特別條件裡應該是很乾淨的如果沒有就像我們之前要等你年十年甚至二十年這是很難阻礙的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}