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我們是不是有請卓榮泰院長跟顧立雄部長好 請卓院長還有顧部長備詢學員好我先請教一下部長因為您剛在這個跟馬文俊委員質詢的時候提到了這個我們的M1A2T那我剛好就想要請教M1A2T的預算是在哪一年的時候開始編列的"},{"start":39.412,"end":54.315,"text":"M1A2T的預算你剛講的這麼快講這麼大聲我現在問你又要等這麼久不是很有把握嗎因為您問的問題是說M1A2T在什麼時候開始編列的這個開始編列的啊總額多少錢呢M1A2"},{"start":62.918,"end":79.005,"text":"我找一下慢慢等你喔我只有15分鐘的質詢時間M1A2T這麼重要的你剛剛問了老半天說哎呀因為這個預算今年的還沒有審查但他是一個非新興預算的M1A2T是108年到116年沒錯從2019年就開始編列的"},{"start":82.847,"end":103.096,"text":"它是一個連續性的分年的編列的預算所以既有的分年付款的情況之下即便在現在還沒有審議完畢之前它是可以動之的所以當初編列了405億我們每一年從2019年開始我們都有編列相關的預算我現在要問的是"},{"start":104.096,"end":122.832,"text":"最近我們的國軍必須要傳出來提到了M1A2T戰車有嚴重的缺料以至於它的妥善率低落甚至維修未達標準的情形請部長先回答據我了解是我們現在還在接樁的過程當中沒有任何缺樁"},{"start":124.734,"end":140.836,"text":"或者是有任何後景維持上面的任何問題所以你的意思是說在國軍地修他們在這個MIHT這邊講到的缺料然後妥善率有低然後他們維修的過程當中出現了一些問題這個是假消息是嗎"},{"start":141.657,"end":157.327,"text":"對 就我跟陸軍的了解因為我們現在相關的我們相關的獲得成本裡面就會有包括兩到三點的這個部長講說MIA出擊的薛亮跟妥善率低落是假消息因為很多國軍弟兄在反映跟關注既然你說是假的 那你自己去跟他們解釋"},{"start":157.907,"end":173.131,"text":"我今天要針對的是我們FMS的這個無人機來做詢問那我們的FMS軍售的部分呢有OTS600跟OTS700的兩款攻擊型的無人機它的金額一共是在發價數上面來說的話是350億的這個台幣"},{"start":177.572,"end":201.708,"text":"我請問一下到時候預算送進來這兩類型兩款無人機的預算會是多少錢?這是目前可以公開的嗎?你們會送多少預算進來?因為Artis的這個600的ISR跟700的部分我們是在5月16號才獲得一個發價數的草案所以我們現在在執行這個發價數內容的磋商跟簽署作業"},{"start":202.108,"end":222.853,"text":"你不是馬上要送預算進來了嗎對 那我們現在是因為那你們不是很急海瑪是不是5月31號沒有的話就來不及我們這是頭皮啊所以我問你 你預算進來 預算是多少錢大院要求我們現在一定要在特別條例之後要專案報告有馬上送所以你說你的規定是錯錯錯你真的很急嘛所以發價書上面的金額不會是預算的金額這個是對的吧"},{"start":228.695,"end":246.979,"text":"那所以我現在問你的說發價書是350億那預算是多少啊你現在應該可以回答我啦我們現在是根據發價書的草案來編制這個預算的金額所以你的預算送進來也只是發價書的部分的你用發價書上面的金額來送的預算一模一樣你要打算送350億進來是嗎"},{"start":250.599,"end":277.137,"text":"確切的金額我要再看一下因為每一個案項你現在看我給你一點時間你現在看因為我要談的事情是說你們一直講很急你們一直說這個專案報告的話會讓他很多事情delay你們一直在講說至少第一批的軍售應該是已經除了發價書之外你要送預算你可以送進來那你現在就要告訴我那預算要送多少這是一個合情合理的問題查好了嗎"},{"start":278.238,"end":300.257,"text":"那個發價數的草案依照發價數草案的金額現在編列的全案是330億330億對所以你們會送進來的預算是330億ok好那我接下來要問就是說為什麼我們國軍在建軍的時候我們要向美方去採購OTS系列的600跟700的型號而不是其他的型號"},{"start":301.118,"end":325.624,"text":"我们对于这两款无人机以及这一架无人机的公司之所以我们国军我们国防部在建军的时候需要它喜欢它的原因在哪边呢为什么我们觉得它比其他的无人机比如我们也有MQ-9B啊比如我们也有弹簧包啊为什么要特别买OTS-600跟700它对于我们的建军作战的需求好在哪里"},{"start":326.764,"end":347.274,"text":"根本報告MQ-9B是高高空的偵查了那個那個公信人跟這個那一樣我清楚我還做了表格給你看我沒說他們是一樣的不要誤解我我問的是為什麼我們要特別找這個LTS600跟700委員能不能讓我講一下要要我要讓你講啊"},{"start":348.735,"end":371.373,"text":"台灣大的部分是人員殺傷型的那Artis-700主要是它對於這個反裝甲的一個攻擊的力道強那麼Artis-600的ISR是為了要做監偵也就是這兩個搭配的也就是透過Artis-600的ISR給它這個勤監證資料以後Artis-700的M可以用這個對裝甲器這個載具來進行攻擊那這個是美軍的一個現役的裝備"},{"start":377.518,"end":396.853,"text":"我想要問一下我們對於這個OTS系列的無人機在烏克蘭戰場上面的運作我們有沒有先去了解我們的了解是英國也用了我問的是烏克蘭我問的是烏克蘭為什麼要問烏克蘭因為這是戰場實戰經驗英國現在沒有在打仗他就提供烏克蘭英國買了之後來支援給烏克蘭然後用了怎麼樣"},{"start":408.127,"end":422.847,"text":"效果沒有不好啊效果沒有不好來我們來看一下華爾街日報在去年11月下旬的時候的報導提到了我們確實經常失敗也就是這家公司Ongel它在武器技術領域遭到挫折以外"},{"start":423.408,"end":440.812,"text":"底下的這個military名是烏克蘭最著名的軍事跟國防新聞媒體他寫到的是經常失去通信無法擊中目標容易受到俄羅斯電戰系統的攻擊最後在2024年放棄了使用這樣子的無人機請問一下"},{"start":441.252,"end":452.757,"text":"是不是烏克蘭國家安全局SSU在戰場施力後目前已經放棄了OTS的光子型無人機在他們的戰場現在就使用有沒有這個信我跟委員報告我以美國陸軍美國陸軍的第七部兵師在2025年9月就實際驗測了這個無人機系統的作戰驗證而且是成功的我問的是戰場的實戰經驗你只要回答我剛剛的問題"},{"start":471.604,"end":481.529,"text":"請問OTS的無人機是否現在還在烏克蘭的戰場他們戰爭還在進行喔請問是否還在他們戰場上繼續實戰還有沒有在使用我相信英國會採購這個OTS600M跟OTS700M來提供烏克蘭使用這是驗證了這個OTS700跟600的一個實戰的功能"},{"start":493.094,"end":504.5,"text":"因為你驗證歸驗證我問的是你的戰場的實戰嘛就提供給烏克蘭就提供給烏克蘭對那我問你烏克蘭現在還有沒有在用你沒有回答我問題啊我剛剛問你的問題你沒有回答我啊我問你A你答我B啊還有沒有在用很簡單有還是沒有因為這個無人機的消耗量非常大嘛"},{"start":511.624,"end":529.567,"text":"他不是因為被消耗掉部長你不要胡說八道他不是因為被消耗掉他是因為烏克蘭的國家安全局熱能現在他們不需要這款無人機因為他們熱能小型的FPP對他們來說是更有效的"},{"start":530.348,"end":544.238,"text":"你如果沒有去把烏克蘭跟俄羅斯他們的戰場現在在實戰的情況了解那我們怎麼會知道對我們的作戰需求去尋找尋求這一系列的無人機是否合適呢我的問題是這個委員我們冷靜下來冷靜下來我再跟委員報告一下"},{"start":548.081,"end":571.819,"text":"Altis這種無人機它有一個特色它就是它一個模組化的無人機的硬體之後它又不斷的軟體的改造會增加它的功性能這一個烏克蘭的戰場的一個驗證反饋他們不斷的重新調整這個產品的性能確實是在烏克蘭跟美國政府的測試當中實在是合得上這個程度合得到相當好的一個程度你是知道還是不知道啊"},{"start":577.083,"end":603.127,"text":"就是2024年以後 烏克蘭的戰場上還有沒有在使用這家公司所生產的無人機你是知道還是不知道 誠實回答我我現在取得的資料是說英國有提供了一套給他這一套到底有沒有使用完畢 消耗完畢而仍然繼續有後續的供應 這個我並不清楚那我就告訴你說沒有了嘛 不會看新聞喔接下來還有很多題目啦"},{"start":604.388,"end":618.307,"text":"5月16號川普在受訪的時候提到對台軍售是對大陸很好的談判籌碼這個要問我們的院長我們的軍售被川普總統說成是對大陸的籌碼請問行政院的立場跟看法是什麼"},{"start":619.904,"end":639.891,"text":"跟委員報告啊 台灣是全球核心利益的所在所以我們不會成為一個被犧牲或交易的那他怎麼說啊 你去跟川普說啊 你要大聲的告訴美國說我們不應該川普總統在北京 在飛機 以及面對媒體的詢問之外我們更要注意到美國廣泛的國會領袖長時間在台美關係的國會"},{"start":646.589,"end":672.877,"text":"院長你的意見會比賴總統的意見來得權威嗎我的意見我的意見跟總統都會是一致的那可是他們脾氣啊那川普總統講說他要把台灣的軍售當成籌碼這是事實啊所以你先不要跟他講其他的我們先就美國總統的President of the United States美國總統說要把軍售當成籌碼這件事情好歹行政院要表態吧"},{"start":674.137,"end":686.306,"text":"所以我們說台灣是全球核心利益之所在我們不會被這麼容易被犧牲或獎勵是不會被是不能被也不會對 你看你自敢講不會你不敢講不能也不應該嘛你就應該要告訴川普說你不應該把台灣對跟美國之間的軍事當成籌碼是吧"},{"start":692.27,"end":701.135,"text":"我對國家的信心就在這裡而且美方國會領袖報告他的國務卿 談判代表 美方的國會議長還有他的擁委會的主席在這幾天講過非常多話我們可以拿出來所以我問你"},{"start":712.381,"end":729.083,"text":"川普總統他會決定要不要簽署140億第二批的軍售案對吧就算是國會簽過了國會簽過了我們他也發了一些文件給我們的國防部的這我都知道整個軍售的流程是如此但是如果川普沒有簽署的話"},{"start":729.824,"end":733.569,"text":"這方面我們現在聽到的狀況包括夏恩等十位議員在5月16號也希望美國政府他希望 我們也希望但我們問的是在川時後之後"},{"start":747.325,"end":767.373,"text":"他講到了要不要簽他再考慮所以我的意思是說如果今天六項保證被川普現在講成那是很久以前的事情了已經沒有六項保證了已經被破壞了儘管底下的幕僚還有參眾議員們很努力幫忙台灣我都知道但是川普他作為總統"},{"start":768.854,"end":773.276,"text":"如果川普總統他沒有簽署沒有發布是不是後續140億的美金的軍售案就沒有了我們目前的掌握是如何呢"},{"start":784.861,"end":807.056,"text":"他希望能夠堅守 但是他不能夠實行所以目前沒有發生川普總統有任何對台灣政策的變化有啊很多變化啊 他過去有六項保證他現在跟你說他不是Santa Claus啊他告訴你說他不需要台灣海峽他不會為了一個6500英里以外的地方看到任何的戰爭"},{"start":808.717,"end":810.838,"text":"我們現在不需要把帽子往身上一直戴"},{"start":825.365,"end":835.732,"text":"我跟他在川習會上一直在談軍售的問題談得很詳細我會做出決定這就是六項保證的鬆動沒有扣人和帽子下一張我們再看一下他們說的我還沒有批准他我們再看看後續發展我可能會也可能不會我要問的是他可能會或可能不會你們掌握了他會還不會"},{"start":855.485,"end":877.264,"text":"我們努力確保台灣目前這種現狀的改變那你不知道 不知道對不對你也不知道我不知道 所以我才問你啊 我知道我問你幹嘛啊我知道的話我問你幹嘛我就是不知道 你是行政院長你才會知道啊我跟妳講的你跟我說出去啊所以我可以說 I have to speak to the person that right nowyou know who he is he is running Taiwan"},{"start":877.984,"end":890.777,"text":"他會是誰?我們有掌握到美國各方的訊息那川普方面的訊息呢?因為川普想要跟某一個台灣的人說話那請問一下這個Person是誰?是賴清德總統嗎?所以是賴清德總統嗎?"},{"start":901.758,"end":930.197,"text":"川普總統的認知那個人就是能夠再讓利台灣的人所以你也不知道他是誰嗎那如果你們兩邊的通話呢因為到現在川普還在罵我們是晶片小偷所以我問一個很重要的問題如果141個軍隊他們要求要交換晶片產業的先進之稱我們會同意嗎台灣的製造能力跟領先地位跟全球的產量不會停下來等其他不是我們會同意嗎你根本沒有回答我的問題啊不是同不同意我們沒有能力留下來所以你不一定同意不一定不同意"},{"start":933.626,"end":933.677,"text":"谢谢观看"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:16:26.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:16:29.884000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請卓榮泰院長跟顧立雄部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:16:29.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:16:30.465000+08:00","text":"請卓院長還有顧部長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:16:30.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:16:30.485000+08:00","text":"徐委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:16:30.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:16:33.347000+08:00","text":"我先請教一下部長，因為您剛在跟馬文君委員詢答的時候提到了M1A2T，我剛好想要請教M1A2T的預算是在哪一年開始編列的？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:16:53.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:16:55.753000+08:00","text":"M1A2T的預算……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:16:58.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:03.234000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講得這麼快、講得這麼大聲，我現在問你卻又要等這麼久，不是很有把握嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:03.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:06.775000+08:00","text":"因為您問的問題是M1A2T在什麼時候開始編列的。對啊！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:06.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:07.035000+08:00","text":"什麼時候開始編列的？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:07.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:08.035000+08:00","text":"總額多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:08.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:17.298000+08:00","text":"M1A2T，我找一下……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:17.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:30.244000+08:00","text":"慢慢等你，我只有15分鐘的質詢時間，M1A2T這麼重要，剛剛問了老半天，說是因為這個預算今年的還沒有審查，但他是一個非新興預算……","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:30.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:31.505000+08:00","text":"M1A2T是108年到116年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:31.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:17:55.555000+08:00","text":"沒錯，從2019年就開始編列的，是一個連續性的、分年編列的預算，所以既有的分年付款的情況之下，即便現在還沒有審議完畢之前，是可以動支的，當初編列了405億，且從2019年開始，我們每一年都有編列相關的預算。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:17:56.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:09.866000+08:00","text":"我現在要問的是，最近我們的國軍弟兄傳出來、提到了M1A2T戰車有嚴重的缺料，以致於它的妥善率低落，甚至維修未達標準的情形。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:10.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:10.867000+08:00","text":"請部長先回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:12.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:22.119000+08:00","text":"據我的了解，我們現在還在接裝的過程當中，沒有任何缺裝或者是有任何後勤維持上面的問題。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:22.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:34.836000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是說，國軍弟兄他們講到的M1A2T缺料、妥善率低，他們在維修的過程當中出現了一些問題，這個是假消息，是嗎？","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:35.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:36.778000+08:00","text":"對，就我跟陸軍的了解……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:36.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:37.778000+08:00","text":"好，你認為是假消息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:37.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:38.778000+08:00","text":"好，我們的國軍弟兄都聽到了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:36.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:42.762000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在相關獲得的成本裡面就會包括2到3年的軍事備份料件。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:43.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:18:51.327000+08:00","text":"部長說M1A2T的缺料跟妥善率低落是假消息，因為有很多國軍弟兄在反映跟關注，既然你說是假的，那你自己去跟他們解釋！","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:18:51.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:07.131000+08:00","text":"我今天要針對FMS無人機來做詢問，我們的FMS軍售的部分有ALTIUS-600跟ALTIUS-700等兩款攻擊型無人機，在發價書上他的金額一共是350億臺幣。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:11.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:19.537000+08:00","text":"我請問一下，到時候送進來的預算中，這兩款無人機的預算會是多少錢？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:19.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:21.438000+08:00","text":"目前是可以公開的嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:21.438000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:22.479000+08:00","text":"針對這兩款無人機，你們送進來的預算金額是多少？","quality":0.238},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:22.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:35.708000+08:00","text":"因為ALTIUS-600ISR跟ALTIUS-700的部分，我們是在5月16號才獲得一個發價書的草案，所以我們現在在執行這個發價書的內容磋商跟簽署作業。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:36.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:38.489000+08:00","text":"你不是馬上要送預算進來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:38.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:38.869000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:39.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:39.869000+08:00","text":"你們不是很急嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:40.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:42.810000+08:00","text":"海馬士不是5月31號沒有的話就來不及啊！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:43.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:43.850000+08:00","text":"都是同一批啊！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:43.850000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:44.850000+08:00","text":"對、對、對……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:44.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:47.091000+08:00","text":"所以我問你，你送進來的預算是多少錢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:47.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:52.632000+08:00","text":"因為現在大院要求我們在特別條例之後一定要專案報告，然後送預算……","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:52.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:53.993000+08:00","text":"對，所以說你的……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:53.993000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:54.993000+08:00","text":"我們現在是要根據發價書的草案……","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:54.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:55.113000+08:00","text":"你們就是很急嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:19:55.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:19:56.833000+08:00","text":"所以發價書上面的金額不會是預算的金額，這個是對的吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:02.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:07.056000+08:00","text":"所以我現在要問你，發價書是350億，那預算是多少啊？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:07.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:08.917000+08:00","text":"你現在應該可以回答我了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:09.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:13.198000+08:00","text":"我們現在是根據發價書的草案來編製這個預算的金額。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:13.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:20.979000+08:00","text":"所以你們的預算送進來也只是根據發價書的金額，發價書上面的金額跟送來的預算一模一樣，你打算送350億的預算進來，是嗎？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:24.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:29.502000+08:00","text":"關於確切的金額，我要再看一下，因為每一個案項……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:29.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:30.963000+08:00","text":"你現在看，我給你一點時間，你現在看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:31.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:50.796000+08:00","text":"因為我要談的事情就是，你們一直講很急，你們一直說做專案報告的話會讓很多事情delay，你們一直在說至少第一批的軍售，除了發價書之外，你應該已經可以把預算送進來，那你現在就要告訴我要送的預算金額是多少，這是一個合情合理的問題。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:50.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:51.137000+08:00","text":"你查好了嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:53.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:20:56.461000+08:00","text":"現在依照發價書草案的金額所編列的全案是330億。330億？對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:20:56.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:02.006000+08:00","text":"所以你們會送進來的預算是330億？對。好。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:03.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:14.257000+08:00","text":"我接下來要問，為什麼我們國軍在建軍的時候要向美方採購ALTIUS系列600跟700的型號而不是其他的型號？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:15.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:25.360000+08:00","text":"我們對於這兩款無人機以及這一家生產無人機的公司，之所以我們國防部在建軍的時候需要它、喜歡它的原因是什麼呢？","quality":0.58},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:26.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:27.701000+08:00","text":"為什麼我們覺得它比其他的無人機好？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:28.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:34.723000+08:00","text":"比如我們也有MQ-9B，比如我們也有彈簧刀，為什麼要特別買ALTIUS-600跟ALTIUS─700？","quality":0.513},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:35.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:39.404000+08:00","text":"它對於我們建軍作戰的需求好在哪裡？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:41.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:43.266000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，MQ-9B是高高空偵察的無人機……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:43.266000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:45.627000+08:00","text":"是，我們有很多不同的，我都知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:45.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:48.288000+08:00","text":"那個功性能跟這個無人機完全不一樣。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:48.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:21:58.333000+08:00","text":"我清楚不一樣，我還做了表格給你看，我沒說它們是一樣的，不要誤解我，我問的是為什麼我們要特別買ALTIUS-600跟ALTIUS-700？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:21:59.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:00.374000+08:00","text":"委員能不能讓我講一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:00.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:01.254000+08:00","text":"我要讓你講，可是我怕你誤解我啊！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:03.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:25.373000+08:00","text":"彈簧刀的部分是人員殺傷型的，買ALTIUS-700主要是對於反裝甲的攻擊力道強，買ALTIUS-600的ISR是為了要做監偵，這兩個是互相搭配的，也就是說，透過ALTIUS-600的ISR提供情監偵資料以後，ALTIUS-700M可以主動對裝甲的載具進行攻擊，這個是美軍現役的裝備。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:31.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:41.786000+08:00","text":"好，我想要問一下，我們對於ALTIUS系列的無人機在烏克蘭戰場上面的運作有沒有先去了解？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:42.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:44.928000+08:00","text":"我們的了解是英國也用了3,000塊英鎊……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:45.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:46.910000+08:00","text":"我問的是烏克蘭，我為什麼要問烏克蘭？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:46.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:48.331000+08:00","text":"因為這是戰場實戰經驗，英國現在沒有在打仗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:48.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:50.493000+08:00","text":"對，他們就是提供給烏克蘭，英國買了之後，是支援讓烏克蘭使用。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:50.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:50.633000+08:00","text":"然後呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:22:50.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:22:50.853000+08:00","text":"用得怎麼樣？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:23:02.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:23:03.489000+08:00","text":"效果沒有不好啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:23:03.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:23:34.551000+08:00","text":"你說效果沒有不好，我們來看一下華爾街日報在去年11月下旬的報導提到：「我們確實經常失敗」，也就是除了這一家公司Anduril在武器技術領域遭到挫折以外，烏克蘭最著名的軍事跟國防新聞媒體MILITARNYI寫的是經常失去通信，無法擊中目標，容易受到俄羅斯電子戰系統的攻擊，最後在2024年放棄使用這樣子的無人機。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:23:34.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:23:43.295000+08:00","text":"請問一下，烏克蘭國家安全局SSU在戰場失利後，目前是不是已經放棄了在他們的戰場使用ALTIUS的攻擊型無人機？","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:23:43.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:23:43.635000+08:00","text":"有沒有這件事？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:23:43.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:23:45.976000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，美國陸軍的第七步兵師在2025年9月就實際做了這個無人機系統的作戰驗測，而且是成功的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:23:45.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:08.586000+08:00","text":"驗測歸驗測，我問的是戰場的實戰經驗，你只要回答我剛剛問的問題，請問ALTIUS的無人機是否現在還在烏克蘭的戰場使用？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:08.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:10.226000+08:00","text":"他們的戰爭還在進行中，請問是否還在他們的戰場上繼續實戰？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:10.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:10.647000+08:00","text":"還有沒有在使用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:10.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:15.509000+08:00","text":"我相信英國會採購ALTIUS-600M跟ALTIUS-700M提供給烏克蘭使用，這是驗證了ALTIUS-600M跟ALTIUS-700M的實戰功能。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:28.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:30.736000+08:00","text":"驗證歸驗證，我問的是戰場的實戰嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:31.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:32.097000+08:00","text":"就是提供給烏克蘭使用。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:32.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:33.778000+08:00","text":"那我問你，烏克蘭現在還有沒有在用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:33.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:34.138000+08:00","text":"你沒有回答我的問題啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:34.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:35.339000+08:00","text":"我剛剛問你的問題，你沒有回答我啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:35.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:36.019000+08:00","text":"我問你A，你答我B啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:36.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:36.399000+08:00","text":"還有沒有在用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:36.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:36.859000+08:00","text":"這個問題很簡單，有還是沒有？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:37.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:38.480000+08:00","text":"因為無人機的消耗量非常大嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:38.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:45.824000+08:00","text":"無人機的消耗量非常大，在使用完之後，是不是還要繼續供應，這個我不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:45.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:50.410000+08:00","text":"不是，它不是因為被消耗掉，部長，你不要胡說八道……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:50.410000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:24:51.410000+08:00","text":"你不能拿一個媒體的報導一直在那邊誤導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:24:51.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:15.776000+08:00","text":"它不是因為被消耗掉，它是因為烏克蘭的國家安全局認為現在他們不需要這款無人機，因為他們認為小型的FPV對他們來說是更有效的，你如果沒有去把烏克蘭與俄羅斯的戰場現在在實戰的情況了解，我們怎麼會知道對於我們的作戰需求，去尋找、尋求這一系列的無人機是否合適呢？","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:16.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:16.417000+08:00","text":"我的問題是這個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:16.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:17.678000+08:00","text":"委員，我們冷靜下來、冷靜下來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:17.678000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:18.678000+08:00","text":"我一直都很冷靜啊！","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:17.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:31.628000+08:00","text":"我再跟委員報告，ALTIUS這種無人機有一個特色，它是一個模組化的無人機硬體，之後又不斷地軟體改造，會增加它的攻性能。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:31.628000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:33.110000+08:00","text":"我都知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:33.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:43.898000+08:00","text":"這是烏克蘭戰場的驗證反饋，他們不斷地重新調整這個產品的性能，確實在烏克蘭跟美國政府的測試當中，以及實戰都得到這個成果，都得到相當好的成果。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:43.898000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:52.024000+08:00","text":"你不要再跟我說測試了，我要問的是2024年以後還有沒有在使用，所以你是知道，還是不知道？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:52.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:25:59.751000+08:00","text":"2024年以後，烏克蘭的戰場上還有沒有在使用這一家公司所生產的無人機，你是知道還是不知道？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:25:59.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:00.252000+08:00","text":"你誠實回答我。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:00.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:04.856000+08:00","text":"我現在取得的資料是，英國有提供一套給他們……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:04.856000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:05.856000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講過了，給我新的答案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:05.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:12.623000+08:00","text":"這一套到底有沒有使用完畢、消耗完畢，而仍然有繼續後續的供應，這個我並不清楚。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:13.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:15.205000+08:00","text":"我就告訴你沒有了，不會看新聞喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:15.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:32.307000+08:00","text":"接下來還有很多題目，5月16日川普在受訪的時候提到對臺軍售是對大陸很好的談判籌碼，這個問題要問院長，我們的軍售被川普總統說成是對大陸的籌碼，請問行政院的立場和看法是什麼？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:33.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:42.007000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，臺灣是全球核心利益的所在，所以我們不會成為一個被犧牲或交易的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:42.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:46.869000+08:00","text":"那他這麼說，你去跟川普說，你要大聲的告訴美國，我們不應該……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:46.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:26:53.871000+08:00","text":"除了川普總統在北京、在飛機以及面對媒體的詢問之外，我們更要注意到美國廣泛的國會領袖，長時間在對臺美關係……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:26:53.871000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:00.589000+08:00","text":"你的意見會比賴總統的意見還來得權威嗎？","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:00.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:04.370000+08:00","text":"院長，你的意見會比賴總統的意見來得權威嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:04.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:05.791000+08:00","text":"我的意見……對啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:05.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:07.771000+08:00","text":"我的意見跟總統都會是一致的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:08.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:09.192000+08:00","text":"可是他們不一致啊！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:09.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:14.013000+08:00","text":"川普總統說他要把臺灣的軍售當成籌碼，這是事實啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:14.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:26.857000+08:00","text":"所以你現在不要跟我講其他的，我們先就美國總統（President of the United States）說的，美國總統說要把軍售當成籌碼，這件事情好歹行政院要表態吧！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:28.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:33.441000+08:00","text":"所以我們說臺灣是全球核心利益之所在，我們不會這麼容易被犧牲或交易。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:33.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:34.882000+08:00","text":"不是不會被，是不能被！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:35.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:36.603000+08:00","text":"也不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:36.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:38.104000+08:00","text":"你看你只敢講不會，你不敢講不能也不應該嘛！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:38.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:39.104000+08:00","text":"當然不能。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:38.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:40.286000+08:00","text":"你就應該要告訴川普說你不應該把臺灣跟美國之間的軍售當成籌碼，是吧？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:40.286000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:46.270000+08:00","text":"院長，你的態度是如此嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:46.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:49.792000+08:00","text":"我們對國家的信心就在這裡。是喔！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:49.792000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:50.792000+08:00","text":"你剛剛對好多其他的立委兇得半死，講到川普的時候就瑟瑟縮縮的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:49.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:27:54.935000+08:00","text":"而且美方的國會領袖，包含國務卿、談判代表、美方的國會議長，還有軍委會的主席，在這幾天講過非常多的話，我們歸納出來……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:27:54.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:28:12.089000+08:00","text":"我知道，但他們不是川普總統，所以我問你，川普總統會決定要不要簽署140億第二批的軍售案，對吧？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:28:12.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:28:23.824000+08:00","text":"就算是國會簽過了，他們也發了一些文件給我們的國防部，這我都知道，整個軍售流程是如此，但是如果川普沒有簽署的話，後續是不是就沒有這一筆140億美金的軍售案？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:28:23.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:28:25.907000+08:00","text":"這一方面我們現在聽到的狀況，包括夏亨等10位議員，在5月16日也希望美國政府儘快批准。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:28:26.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:01.373000+08:00","text":"他希望，我們也希望，但我們問的是，在川習會之後，他講到了要不要簽，他在考慮，所以我的意思是，六項保證現在被川普講成那是很久以前的事情了，已經沒有六項保證了、已經被破壞了，儘管底下的幕僚還有參眾議員們很努力幫忙臺灣，我都知道，但是川普作為總統，他把它發布出來，那是他的權力。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:02.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:07.256000+08:00","text":"所以我問的是，如果川普總統沒有簽署、沒有發布，是不是後續140億美金的軍售案就沒有了，我們目前的掌握是如何呢？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:07.256000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:18.861000+08:00","text":"美國肯納議員也說過希望美國能夠堅守1982年的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:18.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:23.044000+08:00","text":"他希望能夠堅守，但是能不能夠……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:23.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:24.044000+08:00","text":"這個也是美國國會相當多的聲音……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:24.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:25.044000+08:00","text":"我知道啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:23.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:29.648000+08:00","text":"所以目前沒有發生川普總統有任何對臺灣政策的變化。有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:29.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:30.329000+08:00","text":"很多變化啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:30.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:41.056000+08:00","text":"他過去有六項保證，他現在跟你說他不是Santa Claus，他說他不需要臺灣海峽，他不會為了一個6,500英里以外的地方看到任何的戰爭，雖然盧比歐他們講的都是沒有變動，可是川普所講出來的事情，川普所說的話就是跟過去的總統以及他過去的態度是不一樣的，你們到現在都還不承認這件事嗎？","quality":0.46},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:41.056000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:47.159000+08:00","text":"委員冷靜下來，我們現在不需要一直把帽子往身上戴，美國國務卿也說過對臺政策不會改變、不會允許中國用武力強迫的方式改變現狀。","quality":0.232},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:47.159000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:53.262000+08:00","text":"沒有，我是跟你講實話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:53.262000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:29:59.365000+08:00","text":"我們看一下川普說什麼的圖片，好不好？","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:29:59.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:02.167000+08:00","text":"「1982年是很久以前了、那是很久的事情，我跟他在川習會上一直在談軍售的問題，談得很詳細，也會做出決定」，這就是六項保證的鬆動啊！","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:02.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:02.527000+08:00","text":"沒有扣任何帽子。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:02.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:06.890000+08:00","text":"下一張，我們再看一下川普說的：我還沒有批准它，我們就看看後續的發展，我可能會，也可能不會……","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:06.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:07.890000+08:00","text":"川普的重點是事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:06.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:09.732000+08:00","text":"我要問的是他可能會，也可能不會，你們掌握的是他會還是不會？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:29.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:32.208000+08:00","text":"我們努力確保臺灣目前的這種現狀不改變。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:32.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:35.290000+08:00","text":"你不知道，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:35.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:35.711000+08:00","text":"你也不知道啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:35.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:37.112000+08:00","text":"我不知道，所以我才問你啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:37.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:38.012000+08:00","text":"我知道，我問你幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:38.012000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:39.012000+08:00","text":"但是我們有掌握各種的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:38.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:40.194000+08:00","text":"我知道的話，我問你幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:40.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:42.156000+08:00","text":"我就是不知道，你是行政院長，你才會知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:42.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:43.097000+08:00","text":"我跟你講的，你都沒有聽進去啊！","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯：川普說","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:43.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:55.207000+08:00","text":"「I have to speak to the person that right now, you know, you know who he is, he is running Taiwan.」他指的who是誰？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:55.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:57.269000+08:00","text":"我跟委員說的，我們有掌握到美國各方的訊息……","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:57.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:58.911000+08:00","text":"對啊，那川普方面的訊息呢？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:58.911000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:30:59.911000+08:00","text":"多方訊息告訴我們對臺的政策沒有改變。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:30:59.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:03.115000+08:00","text":"因為川普講，他現在想要跟某一個在running臺灣的人說話，請問一下the person是誰？","quality":0.628},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:03.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:03.776000+08:00","text":"是賴清德總統嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:03.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:04.776000+08:00","text":"在臺灣能夠決定臺灣重要事情的就是領導人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:03.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:04.777000+08:00","text":"所以是賴清德總統嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:15.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:18.560000+08:00","text":"依川普總統的認知，那個人就是能夠running臺灣的人。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:18.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:20.241000+08:00","text":"所以你也不知道他是誰嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:20.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:33.250000+08:00","text":"如果你們兩邊的通話……因為到現在川普還在罵我們是晶片小偷，所以我問你一個很重要的問題，如果140億的軍購，他們要求要交換晶片產業的先進製程，我們會同意嗎？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:33.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:38.013000+08:00","text":"臺灣的製造能力跟領先地位、跟全球的產量，不會停下來等其他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:38.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:38.793000+08:00","text":"不是，是我們會同意嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:38.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:40.554000+08:00","text":"你根本沒有回答我的問題啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:40.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:42.456000+08:00","text":"不是同不同意，我們沒有能力停下來。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:42.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:44.177000+08:00","text":"所以不一定同意、不一定不同意？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:44.677000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:47.819857+08:00","text":"不會有這個狀況，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:48.119857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:31:50.977000+08:00","text":"謝謝徐委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:31:51.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:01.277000+08:00","text":"報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:32:01.577000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:12.434143+08:00","text":"作以下之決定：一、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復部分予以書面答復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:32:12.734143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:18.734143+08:00","text":"二、已提出之書面質詢尚未登載公報者，一律補刊登。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:32:19.034143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:41.034143+08:00","text":"報告院會，因「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫採購特別條例」規定，經本院同意後，行政院始得籌編第一批發價書預算案，現在請各黨團幹部至議場後面主席辦公室進行溝通後續事宜。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:32:41.334143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:52.762714+08:00","text":"另外，請卓院長及相關部會首長返回，俟本院就上開事項處理後，再行通知後續相關事宜，現在休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:32:53.062714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:54.205571+08:00","text":"休息（16時32分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-19T16:32:54.505571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-19T16:32:56.219857+08:00","text":"繼續開會（16時43分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}