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他是新任的常務次長朱俊彰"},{"start":1596.533,"end":1618.223,"text":"教育部綜合規劃司副司長張金淑高等教育司司長廖英賢技術及職業教育司司長楊育慧終身教育司司長梁學正"},{"start":1624.077,"end":1646.795,"text":"國際級兩岸教育司司長李玉娟師師培育級藝術教育司司長吳小霞資訊級科技教育司司長吳穎田學生事務級特殊教育司司長吳林輝"},{"start":1650.987,"end":1664.437,"text":"民俗處的副處長李啟光人事室處長林建章政風處處長邱蒼林會計處處長劉家緯統計處處長鄭敏祿法制處副處長汪康定"},{"start":1681.57,"end":1703.14,"text":"私校退輔儲金兼理會參事兼執行秘書賴俊楠國民級學前教育署署長彭富源今年發展署署長陳雪玉國家教育研究院副院長郭公斌"},{"start":1706.121,"end":1734.245,"text":"好以上的教育部列席人員現在請教育部正部長進行報告報告時間10分鐘主席各位委員女士先生大家早安大家好"},{"start":1735.27,"end":1764.358,"text":"首先感謝主席以及所有的我們教育委員對本部主管全國教育跟青年發展等業務長期的一個支持跟指正那麼以下僅就則要針對未來11項教育施政及未來規劃重點做二要報告那敬請我們各位委員先進能夠以指導首先在幼兒教育方面"},{"start":1766.311,"end":1773.154,"text":"我們持續提供完善的一個全面的一個幼兒照顧與福利持續增設兩歲專班增設1360班增加平價教保救協機會50萬個"},{"start":1780.834,"end":1809.762,"text":"公立幼兒園辦理延長照顧服務達9成公立公共化幼兒園事辦臨時照顧服務持續改善幼兒園學習環境調整幼兒園師生比1比12另外也保障積極推動這個保障教保服務人員的待遇准公幼幼兒園14年期每人每月薪資再調高1000元"},{"start":1810.842,"end":1836.012,"text":"另外在國民教育方面完善持續完善優遲安全校園環境特別在整修老舊廁所核定改善1988棟老舊廁所另外在穩定偏遠地區學校教室方面我們積極開設偏遠地區學校學室後專班另外為這個穩定這一個偏鄉"},{"start":1840.154,"end":1869.254,"text":"教師我們也除了提供9任獎金以外對偏鄉國小教師也用公會專班來培育另外積極改善偏鄉老師的留任環境改善學校宿舍另外強化偏鄉教師的一個保險希望能夠讓老師能夠更安心的協助我們偏鄉學童的一個學習"},{"start":1870.822,"end":1897.046,"text":"其次實施教育平權推動高級中等學校免學會協助87萬以上人次在國民教育方面我們也持續推動高中職精優化導入數位科技強化區域共學把關學生午餐品質深耕飲食教育"},{"start":1898.581,"end":1928.113,"text":"活化充沛的學校體育設置除了改善積極改善高中以下學校體育運動設施包含設置太陽能關電球場有468校也希望能夠結合球場以及學校的一些運動場域能夠落實加強社區安全及防災的一個韌性另外在技職教育方面"},{"start":1929.966,"end":1954.418,"text":"持续扩充教学能量大学与产业聚落的连结建置区域产业人才及技术培育基地其次 工会培育STEM专科类型的师资希望能够稳定STEM师资的来源第三 准备教学环境 贴近产业状况"},{"start":1956.826,"end":1976.452,"text":"精進技職校園實作倡議設備另外也積極強化技職學制的一個整合因應外在環境及產業的一個需求規劃鼓勵轉型單科專門學校發展學校特色培養產業人才"},{"start":1979.955,"end":2007.766,"text":"此外也積極跨部會合作結合教技高技專及產業界共同培育產業專才攜手計畫2.0培育超過兩萬一千人那麼對於私立學校的轉型活化跟退場機制確保他的一個公共性公益性跟永續性以及維護教職原生的權益至於在高教方面"},{"start":2009.726,"end":2037.38,"text":"積極延攬世界頂尖人才強化國家高階人才的培育設立國家重點領域研究與產業講座建立類醫學系所之高教師之幾戶機制延攬優秀人才另外我們也積極加強博士生學習環境的一些支持加強博士生獎學金的補助"},{"start":2039.93,"end":2040.578,"text":"积极推动"},{"start":2041.604,"end":2069.709,"text":"AI教育跨校联盟资源共享另外也积极推动支持青年就学教育平权拉近公私立学校学杂会差距及配套措施方案减免私校学杂会最高3.5万元经济弱势学生加码补助1.5万到2万人那么私校减免学杂会加费72万学生人次"},{"start":2071.057,"end":2097.487,"text":"經濟弱勢有18萬的一個學生受益那另外我們也推動大專校宴學生校內補助補貼計畫此外也積極強化人體研究要求大學維護學術及研究的一個倫理要求計畫主持人及研究團隊落實人體研究法此外在數位科技教育方面"},{"start":2098.996,"end":2113.992,"text":"持續推動中小學數位學習進行方案提升高級中等學校以下AI學習及科技教育應用深層式AI輔助教學與自主學習"},{"start":2115.875,"end":2143.071,"text":"發展酷英平台 英語線上學習平台提供全國中小學生教師學生能夠共同使用共享使用導入科技及5G跨域教學應用3D虛擬直播共學教學活動達2.5萬人次發佈中小學使用深層式人工智慧注意事項"},{"start":2144.92,"end":2171.256,"text":"積極推動中小學AI素養教育另外也推動重點產業跨領域的科技人才的培育總共開設有460門課此外在創新AI及科技人才培育方面也積極推動人設跨領域教育的一個教學應用共開308門課那在語言教育方面"},{"start":2173.308,"end":2196.533,"text":"扎根多元平等本土语言的一个教育从12个县市的幼儿园全国的幼儿园开始也就是说我们本土语言不管在原住民语课语跟台语我们积极结合22个地方县市从幼稚园开始能够学习这个"},{"start":2197.591,"end":2221.691,"text":"国家语言本土语言那另外我们在营造校园双语环境消弭成乡学习差异方面在普及方面高中以下英文课以前英文授课已经达69.28%那另外在民意评成乡的一个差异里边透过酷英网的一个平台优先这一个"},{"start":2224.417,"end":2237.577,"text":"提供外施協助偏鄉的雙語學習以及事辦偏鄉雙語的一個創新學校以及結合大專校宴學生辦理學辦計畫"},{"start":2239.232,"end":2263.741,"text":"积极来弥平城乡的一个双语学习上的一些环境上的一些落差那另外我们也有重点培育在高中双语实验班补助314个学校那此外也积极推动科学研究周边高级中等以下学校双语部试办计划另外在国际教育方面"},{"start":2265.842,"end":2294.056,"text":"積極促進國際生來臺學習及留學的就業那麼國際生留臺就業輔導專業化提升國際生留臺的一個就業力另外新南向產學合作專班也培育兩萬六千多名此外也增進國際人才這個循環的交流大學共組招生國家隊設立海外招生前進基地拓展"},{"start":2295.066,"end":2304.366,"text":"另外也积极拓展全球华语交友合作交流至于在安心校园画面强化学生身心健康网络"},{"start":2306.263,"end":2335.275,"text":"讓SELO積極推動學校的一個社會情緒學習以健全這一個輔導諮商的一個功能國中學務人力以校為單位增置學務人力或設置副組長此外也推動網路數位網路性別暴力防治營造友善性別友善的一個校園空間兼任校園安全防護網"},{"start":2336.854,"end":2362.781,"text":"推動校園防詐先導以及落實防詐霸凌處理機制另外我們對特殊教育的一個學童也全面升級高級中等學校與校特殊教育的一個環境在終身學習方面積極扶持社區大學穩定發展人力以及強化終身學習"},{"start":2364.945,"end":2368.84,"text":"體系中辦理推動這一個終身學習票件"},{"start":2370.988,"end":2397.615,"text":"強化另外在優化樂齡長者學習場域跟資源方面也積極協助高齡者數位的一個學習另外建構智慧學習跟終身學習場域及其推動社教館所公共建設及科技發展計畫推動科普教育營造社教館所近齡轉型典範場域"},{"start":2400.583,"end":2423.444,"text":"至於在原住民教育方面精進原住民族教育資源與學生資源支持措施提升大專校園研資能量有139所前述設置增至專任人力那麼也積極補助原住民學生就學輔助另外對創新施施培育制度增也"},{"start":2424.185,"end":2433.722,"text":"原住民也设立工会专班来培养原住民师师以及增进原住民教师的这个主委老师的一个能力"},{"start":2434.741,"end":2462.304,"text":"另外我们也保障原住民学生升学前一起办理原住民工会留学考试提升增加这个原住民生的一个名额最后在青年发展方面积极持续的来推动青年百业海外圆梦计划我想在今年总共有八千九百名的这个青年朋友来报名这个竹梦那么总共有一千"},{"start":2463.405,"end":2486.082,"text":"将近1500位的年轻朋友在这个世界各国翱翔我想我们会持续来精进青年白艺海外圆梦的这个计划另外强化青年创新创业人才的一个培育以及跟各地方政府来合作协助卫生学卫救青少年的一个生涯探索"},{"start":2487.728,"end":2514.324,"text":"另外也積極推動青年國際體驗學習後職青年參與國際交流活動推動青年參與海外志工服務以及青年參與撞油體驗學習感謝各位委員的指正我希望臺灣的一個教育能夠在各位委員的一個支持會越來越好能夠世界看到臺灣人才的一個貢獻以上謝謝請各位委員指教"},{"start":2516.184,"end":2539.674,"text":"好 謝謝鄭部長的口頭報告 請回座我們現在來處理剛才進行的議事錄確認的議題那現場的委員對於剛才之前有做一個議事錄的宣讀有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有 好 那就議事錄確定好 那現在我們進行詢答"},{"start":2541.616,"end":2555.432,"text":"每位出席委員的質詢時間是8分鐘必要時來進行2分鐘延長那列席委員的質詢時間是4分鐘發言登記的截止時間是上午的10點30分"},{"start":2557.975,"end":2581.62,"text":"那委員如果有臨時提案請在10點30分前提出並於本委員會的委員伍麗華她質詢結束後期進行處理那處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例就不予處理了現在首先就請登記發言第一位的柯志文委員進行質詢"},{"start":2587.469,"end":2592.619,"text":"好 我們謝謝主席 我們是不是請政部長請政部長"},{"start":2598.871,"end":2624.928,"text":"部长早部长早我想明年中央政府的总预算比今年是增加了1100亿但是我们整个教科文文化的支出反而减少了263亿我现在指的是正式别的教育支出当然包括行政院本来要给的还有教育部主管的这个整个降幅可以说是最大大概是比今年度大概就是减少了将近908亿大概降幅是27.7%"},{"start":2626.309,"end":2645.295,"text":"当然了问过的院长他说当然很多过去应该是中央给的现在就是由地方来给可是这样子的方式像我们我不晓得这个彭书长这个脸现在是以后比较不管事了还是觉得前辈三这么多不太愉快啊138亿国教署最重要的啊我觉得整个才化法的分配不是这个样子的"},{"start":2645.695,"end":2657.011,"text":"很多的状况之下由中央该负责的就应该由中央我们举例来说你看我先请教部长这种预算的编排方法这种断崖式的一个削减部长你有跟院长反映过吗"},{"start":2658.837,"end":2687.774,"text":"他有問過你的意見嗎還是我們教育部就被吹喊了都不講話嗎 直接被告知嗎沒有 跟委員報告教育部 這個行政院左院長事實上對這個學校的教育部的一個預算事實上是非常的支持委員也可以看到好啦 所以你是同意的是不是還特別為高等教育徵提到有200億有 這個沒有問題啦這個有教育部需要什麼錢我們就盡量支持我下次問你院長有沒有問過你啦"},{"start":2688.674,"end":2714.427,"text":"这里边当然都有那你有没有问过地方的教育局长我举例来说嘛2到6这个所谓这个我们幼童的一个照顾是总统的政策总统的政策你现在把这个钱放到地方地方会不会把它当作是优先来处理我们都不知道所以我觉得这个部分来说的话应该把它负责的清楚我现在是要帮教育部发声很多的方法不应该是这个样子而且一般性补助款本来就"},{"start":2714.867,"end":2728.452,"text":"剛才那個零到六歲國家一起養這個部分我們變成六百八十八億但是我們內部還是有六百億只是地方承接的地方政府如果因為不同的財源有不同的方法包括營養午餐沒有辦法用我們國產的這些部分每個地方都不一樣如果不是由中央統一來去做要交給地方地方會因為不同的財源的優先次序不見得會把它放棄這是我所擔心的"},{"start":2744.298,"end":2760.554,"text":"所以我才说这种断崖式的这个方法如果院长没有好好跟部长沟通部长没有好好跟地方的教育局处来做沟通的话我担心这个方法下去的话我们很多孩子的很多的教育经费很多教育的资源意味着会变成各县市都会不一样"},{"start":2760.794,"end":2784.66,"text":"感謝委員提醒確實委員所擔心當時財務法以後我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長做這樣的一個討論我們也希望說中央在補助給地方的一般講補助這些裡面絕對不能夠有任何的打折包含的這些教育的東西教育領域的一個機會應該要讓地方這些我們都會這個時間實在是快太快了我們有太多問題的"},{"start":2785.78,"end":2812.086,"text":"所以说部长我相信你的苦心你也相信我们对教育的用心不要把才化法当作是洪水猛射好像什么事情地方如果不做都完全来自于才化法不是这个样子的我觉得不会是这样子的好了教师节前夕我想这个部长你是来自于这个教育出身你应该收到非常多老师给你谈到这个他们很多第一线所担心的一个问题嘛没有错嘛而且你也信誓旦旦说会帮他们解决我们就一来看嘛"},{"start":2812.566,"end":2829.301,"text":"这个目前到8月25号的时候我们全国3000多个国中小还有1429个教师缺这是一个事实我觉得我很感叹的你看这个整个部分我马上调列出来很多学校被迫第三招很多是第三招就是明星的学校"},{"start":2829.781,"end":2850.115,"text":"那更不要说写片语还有13招而且你现在条件放宽到你完全不需要教师证也没有教育相关背景我很感叹啊以前要拿到这个教师证是多困难以前多少人要来做当当这个老师可是你看现在整个教育环境都非常的不友善一个老师要身兼多职还要被迫朝总点还有呢"},{"start":2851.016,"end":2879.835,"text":"部长七成的师培生都要跳船了而且我们最在乎的自然科物理科这些宁可到业界也不要过来说三年后搞不好就是归零你知道吗这个师大通过教检的学生有一半是不当老师的而且我们全国有七万名储备人力有教师证只有三有储备人力然后有三成报考而且通过的人大概可能只有七成的人还不愿意进入我们这个职场"},{"start":2881.236,"end":2895.663,"text":"这是个很大的问题诚文报告我们确实我进来以后也发现了我们在整个产业的一个这一个科技产业的快速发展确实对学校也产生了一定的影响跟冲击那么我们过去的工会生"},{"start":2896.483,"end":2914.377,"text":"是善居在各大學一個系統一班兩班一班可能只有一個兩個那這個對學校來講真正培養STEM的老師他是沒有辦法全力取得不會只有STEM而已我下次告訴你光是以前師培每一次開三班一班五十個現在根本只剩下一班"},{"start":2914.517,"end":2941.156,"text":"还遭不满我要跟委员报告的是我们现在会集中用集中好我们就来看看你们到底有没有办法这些我们都可以来讨论还没有前面最重要的是你看嘛我们很多地方不管是幼教的学城或是幼保的科系衰没人师资都没有办法很多学校幼稚园里面都找不到要教保人员这些都是来自于薪资都是来自于整个环境环境到底有哪些问题部长你应该很清楚我们往下看"},{"start":2942.037,"end":2967.492,"text":"有关于这个所谓的教师荒为什么不要你看薪资我刚讲这很现实啊不要告诉我们老师都只有热忱了不啦过去的我们的基本工资上涨了230%我们老师呢终点费只有5%到29%这完全不成比例啊环境不好好对老师们比较友善哎以前我妈妈去拆车要拆人家在阿公也是老师做把把你送葱送蒜的"},{"start":2968.593,"end":2989.303,"text":"其他沒有叫你衝算就已經很不錯了 你看差別這麼大 來們往下看然後你看嘛真的是非常的不友善嘛 現在裡面來說的話很多老師就認為他們完全是處在一些焦慮當中 現在我們目前有這個教室教室的會議裡面當中 校室會議當中 你看平均"},{"start":2990.083,"end":3005.257,"text":"学期中平均每个月有125老师被调查你看看处理的结果不成立的34%程序中的30%案件成立的给予解聘的26占全部的2.3%这个比率我相信"},{"start":3005.757,"end":3025.719,"text":"身为老师我相信我们需要秉公处理身为家长我也很希望我的学生我的孩子万一发生事情我也很害怕我万一举发万一说我的名字我的孩子被看到我搞不好会做不平等待遇所以家长有他的看法老师也有他的委屈这个的平衡点部长你该怎么样来处理啊"},{"start":3026.34,"end":3052.478,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實我進來也確實發現這一個問題我們現在檢討整個流程裡面現在是只要指控不管具名或者不具名全部都進入到校事會議這就是家長願意老師覺得我都要進入校會議以前的教評會因為以前教評會的時候大家就是官官相護很多人認為官官相護可是你全部進到這個校事會議的當中的話你的程序你講話你申請"},{"start":3055.56,"end":3073.72,"text":"零元你辦一個案子要十萬很多老師在這麼多當中他們會覺得我要花時間在這個地方我們都一樣的看到了問題我們希望分流在前面只有真正不適任教師當時校士會本來是處理不適任教師其他老師的班當然 可是你看到這個結果嘛"},{"start":3075.663,"end":3093.522,"text":"我只是要提醒這整個會議的流程的公平整個公開還有不要給老師太多的負擔這些都是很需要的要從流程裡面就先分流了是但是你這個分流的過程當中這都是老師反映的這都是老師所反映的他們在這個過程當中他們會覺得"},{"start":3095.384,"end":3100.749,"text":"對 所以你必須要是具名然後裡面有很多的保證金的方法很多的方式你都要來做處理好 還有部長你也聽過了很多行政檢量已經講了很多了你對於流程paperwork的檢量我給你肯定了那的確是減少非常多的一個負擔這個沒有問題但是我也覺得教育部創意無限"},{"start":3121.187,"end":3128.471,"text":"班班有牛奶好給孩子有這個營養沒有問題老師要來做調查有沒有大陸居住證這個部分呢一個學校填五次到七次好了你的校園愛心球你還要叫老師去盤點全國中小學的器具開放還有呢第七堂課部長你們告訴我說第七堂課老師可以彈性處理問題是你們教育的獎勵的部分你就看第七堂課有沒有啊每次都說你們可以彈性處理"},{"start":3147.242,"end":3173.26,"text":"就你们奖励办法里面把这个当作是你们奖励的其中一个老师敢不敢做所以这些都是你们的创意我也相信你这是非常希望学校学生更好可是这些对老师来说都是他们额外的行政负担我刚刚已经讲了薪资没有比别人好动不动可能就会被投诉再加上有这么多的行政我们教育部我们有办法留得住人才吗哪有办法留得住老师"},{"start":3173.74,"end":3194.036,"text":"跟委員報告 我其實因為委員本身也是心理專業的一個學者我其實心情跟委員是一樣的我們希望青少年有一個更好的一個學習環境而不是每天只是關在教室裡面學科的學習我當然知道 可是這個東西你要如何所以才會有 希望有更蓬勃的好 所以說院長 部長 部長他剛才叫成近邊的院長 部長"},{"start":3198.419,"end":3219.961,"text":"有了他当过教育学院院长也是可以的所以说部长我们都知道所以你的创意跟老师的行政我觉得这个两者之间的平衡部长你要拿捏住否则我们老师会越来越最后一个你刚刚说身心灵可以啊我们现在都有身心调试家但是你竟然把身心调试家跟试家放在一起这是两个不一样的"},{"start":3220.481,"end":3240.339,"text":"你为什么要把它当作事项来计算这个对老师来说对很多人来说是完全觉得我有请没有请还是一样的而且最重要的是你没有考虑到客户排代的这个问题虽然这个钱是由学校来支付但是谁来找代课老师我总不能告诉你我下礼拜会有忧郁症吧"},{"start":3240.859,"end":3256.912,"text":"然后我又一直但是我要事先找代课老师啊再问你怎么解决而且这个两个性质完全跟这个市价完全不一样你这么有心要给各位老师有这样的一个调整你也去把它放在这个市价让老师到底要不要请代课老师你没办法解决还有"},{"start":3257.412,"end":3280.439,"text":"公立学校的教保员可不可以有身心调试私立学校的教保员可不可以有私校老师有没考戴琳老师有没有一国多志很多老师身心俱疲他们需要可是你却在后面卡上一个关卡这对老师来说要请这个假他们也很困难老师他这个请试假他是要致富这个待课会"},{"start":3280.999,"end":3302.92,"text":"那我们这一个部分你付钱我知道但是他还是把它变入重点是谁来帮这些老师请代理的老师很多时候我是今天早上我才觉得我心情不好我一定要来请我就拿去找代课老师这个在程序上我们来请学校一定要建立一个机制当然我讲的都是第一线老师还有自己个人的经验是"},{"start":3304.381,"end":3322.629,"text":"部長我們都是同樣背景同樣在這條線上我們應該可以溝通這些的問題我們真的要好好否則我很擔心沒有好的老師沒有好的學生我們老師真的快待不下去了好不好好我們共勉謝謝部長謝謝謝謝珂貞委員還有部長請回座現在先讓部長先喝口水"},{"start":3333.049,"end":3347.682,"text":"好 現在請吳佩奕委員進行質詢好 謝謝主席首先我邀請清發署署長清發署署長"},{"start":3354.162,"end":3372.012,"text":"署長好剛剛看了這個教育部今天的業務報告那我主要是針對裡面我們去年度來新的計畫還有呢我們明年因為預算送進來明年的一些新的計畫今天來跟教育部討論所以我等會議序會再邀請國教署署長那最後再邀請教育部部長來進行討論"},{"start":3373.553,"end":3378.335,"text":"首先是這個青年海外圓夢基金這是賴清德總統他過去青年政策白皮書裡面非常重要的一個重點政策那我看了一下你們去年執行的成效我覺得其實相當亮眼然後我自己也收到很多年輕朋友的回饋因為這個報名其實相當搶手就是你們送出去剛剛部長說將近1500位那其實來徵選的是8倍這個8000多位的青年朋友來申請報名"},{"start":3401.144,"end":3409.029,"text":"那很多人回來因為口耳相傳口碑好嘛大家分享自己的經驗有些陸續還要再出去的很多人都已經在問說明年要怎麼樣來申請所以呢我想這個計畫很好那內容呢其實也很亮眼喔像我自己特別關注的霹靂舞你們有一個計畫是到紐約"},{"start":3418.976,"end":3424.257,"text":"然後到我們這個霹靂舞教父他成立了一個機構學習嘻哈文化然後呢也有這個培訓的課程然後K-pop也跟韓國的那個胡源大學來合作去參訪他們的整個演藝產業啊經濟啊那同時也給他進行這個歌唱舞蹈的培訓所以我覺得相當的多元那因為今年有發生一個案件就是有我們在加拿大的這個"},{"start":3442.501,"end":3463.055,"text":"青年朋友遇到這個性騷擾的案件那我看一下你們處理的過程基本上我們算是有及時處理不過還是要提出個案跟署長討論因為我想這個計畫我們要繼續而且呢很多的這個年輕朋友甚至裡面有些是未成年15到17歲所以我想我們要很重視這個制度跟SOP"},{"start":3463.975,"end":3485.086,"text":"這個案件發生在 他是這位計畫參與人他是到加拿大的珍乃街那他在社群媒體上面說這個在地的計畫負責人多次的性騷擾而且後來的這個很多人分享可能是多次對多人的行為有包括這個去抓捏"},{"start":3486.604,"end":3505.223,"text":"肩膀甚至藉故看手機去握人家的手然後甚至有不當邀約邀請學員說半夜要不要出來唱歌甚至有言語很不當言語說這個女生裙子應該穿短一點等等這性騷的事件發生那我們清發署後來是如何處理呢"},{"start":3507.291,"end":3534.465,"text":"那这个部分我们跟委员也说明一下就是说我们在事件发生之后我们住处就立即隔绝双方的接触而且调整我们蹲点的单位那我们在尊重学生的意愿之下青年发展署也全力去支持青年寻求那个法律的救济所以我们也提供了法律的咨询而且进而去补助这个相关的经费那我们在针对"},{"start":3535.964,"end":3551.123,"text":"好那我們也持續關懷我們青年的身心跟他的一個生活需求加拿大這個機構明年還會跟他合作嗎不會我們終止合作了那之前給他這個培訓的費用我們追討回來"},{"start":3552.144,"end":3569.149,"text":"對 我們這個培訓的費用就是已經就是分期然後最慢就是最後一期在10月底前錢都要追回來嘛 對不對這個責任一定要追究這個案子為什麼我覺得很重要第一個啦 我覺得四個理由第一個 這個我們政府有保障安全的責任"},{"start":3570.009,"end":3584.695,"text":"第二個事件發生都在海外所以有可能他是以孤立無援的困境那當地的住處有些有我們教育部部派人員有些沒有啊那在沒有我們部派人員的住處你們這個通報的SOP如何建立"},{"start":3585.635,"end":3607.672,"text":"再來很多我剛剛講到他是未成年未成年的參與他風險更高那有些的傷害可能是不可逆的所以我們事先的這個預防整個SOP必須要訂定的很詳細最後就是剛好提到說法律救濟嘛但是其實海外的法律程序他可能更加的困難那這個案件裡面我們有沒有權額來支持提供這個法律訴訟的費用"},{"start":3608.513,"end":3623.941,"text":"好的那這個部分我們也全額來支持青年就是提供那個必要的法律協助所以費用都是由我們青年署這邊來我們來處理好那我看到你們有訂定了一個海外性別事件通報處理機制但是針對我們參與我們這個青年海外圓夢計畫的參與的這些學員"},{"start":3629.224,"end":3646.852,"text":"他在海外遇到緊急事件如何通報那我們住處跟我們清發署這個中間的溝通讓他更能夠及時的同步這我希望你們有一個更鄉鎮的SOP 好不好好 之後再跟署長來討論 署長請回接下來我要請國交署署長"},{"start":3648.665,"end":3665.217,"text":"請國教署彭署長署長好今天很關切你知道我關切的嗎就是說因為運動部9月成立了所以有關於學校體育未來教育部 國教署跟運動部如何來分工大家都很關切那我看我們過去其實教育部也做了很多準備"},{"start":3666.819,"end":3684.339,"text":"這個張亮次長其實針對這個分工開了七次的會議很多其實原則已經訂定出來就基本上就是說一般性的教育部負責特殊的例如競技專業運動部來負責但大家關切的還是很多在實務上到底就是怎麼樣來定義然後最擔心的當然就是"},{"start":3685.693,"end":3704.726,"text":"千萬不要發生互相踢皮球的狀況首先我想請教像我們在學校裡面的校隊或體育班有一些是專任教練這個教育不管但有一些過去是計劃性的外聘教練這個未來是歸哪一個部會管"},{"start":3706.667,"end":3727.78,"text":"跟委員簡單補充兩點教練的資格是運動部教練的禁用或是他有學務事件那是教育部所以資格是運動部禁用是教育部那你講的緣額就是指正式編制的嗎其實很多實務上都是外聘的那過去是用體育署的計劃經費"},{"start":3729.321,"end":3754.673,"text":"教練其實有四種啦從專任運動教練就分兩種一直到外聘的等等大概有四種加起來教練有將近一千位抱歉專任一千位整個教練有一萬九千多位大概有一萬那其中除了專任運動教練因為他有一些國際或是全國性賽事等等的認定那個標準是運動部"},{"start":3756.814,"end":3774.045,"text":"基本上人歸教育部管我們有些專任教練他同時也是體育老師他也是正式教師這個未來都是由教育部那這個算明確像我們學校裡面的精神訓練站精神訓練站歸教育部還是運動部"},{"start":3776.567,"end":3784.01,"text":"就是運動部歸運動部那基層訓練站所使用的場地有一些其實是共用的就是比如說籃球課一般的籃球課程跟籃球隊使用的場地這共用的那未來是教育部管還是運動部管原則上會是只要是共用的因為他教學屬性大會是教育部"},{"start":3796.334,"end":3824.181,"text":"教育部管是好所以完全專項的完全專項的那是運動部好這個這個是在教育部跟運動部之間再來第二個問題是因為現在地方政府很多單位也在詢問我們有些縣市政府他的不一定有他有教育局不一定有體育局或是說他是教育局運動處甚至有些甚至只是一個科但是我們現在教育部跟運動部分工明確了但是在對照地方政府"},{"start":3825.205,"end":3849.69,"text":"的這個補助事項你們是會不會有教育部要對運動處運動部要對教育局這樣子的業務呢地方政府的業務之間有沒有需要移撥那你們有沒有進行這個溝通了我看你們是有跟地方教育局的會議啦但是我並沒有看到地方體育局的會議這也許是未來運動部要開的這部分我就是給這個國教署提醒"},{"start":3850.27,"end":3864.565,"text":"跟委員報告兩點第一點在7月份局處長會議的時候都已經說明過運動部也有來說明在9月份的時候運動也發了一個文做明確區隔就我們來了解第三點地方政府在執行上是沒有問題的以上幾點跟您回報謝謝好"},{"start":3865.846,"end":3881.077,"text":"原則明確很好但實務上他帶來很多問題所以我今天就是希望教育部國教署未來拜託跟運動部持續保持溝通我們定期都會有會商的會議好感謝蘇張請回接下來我要邀請我們教育部部長請教育部這部長"},{"start":3887.971,"end":3907.238,"text":"政務長好 這個之前有跟您關切過就是我們大學的文資的修繕維護因為這我非常重視那我也很開心在你們今年送進來的預算當中有一筆新增預算就是15億的來補助國立大學的老舊校舍修繕這個裡面有沒有包括文資維護"},{"start":3908.098,"end":3931.338,"text":"我想这里边确实委员看到了问题我们看到有一些学校有一个非常好的历史但是学校的建筑它确实比较长年的失去了一个维护维修特别在文字这个部分过去它确实比较多我们办法是来自于文化部但是我们认为在学校的建筑学校的设备"},{"start":3932.159,"end":3953.231,"text":"學校建築是一個不會說話的老師特別有歷史記憶的許多的這些古蹟我們怎麼樣能夠把它優先保存我想這也是我們教育部覺得我們責無旁貸沒錯學校的這些文資建築部長你說不會說話的老師我很認同那我的母校台大有特別多這種老師"},{"start":3954.131,"end":3973.298,"text":"不會說話的老師就文資那過去監察院也有調查也有要求台大檢討過就是說台大的文資很多很多剛好坐在我的選區中正區以這個在我們附近徐州路8號過去台大法學院社科院的這個校舍為例我們教育部對老舊校舍定義40年這個社科院徐州路8號這裡面"},{"start":3975.738,"end":3992.125,"text":"這個行政大樓100年另外兩棟教室更悠久是超過100年其中圖書館是我們台灣知名建築師王大鴻建築師也是你們教育部的建築師他的這個作品那現在這個台大社科院法學院就職現在還有一棟樓"},{"start":3994.426,"end":4011.628,"text":"到現在我看台大還沒有編列這個預算來做修護所以我現在要請問的是我們這個新編列15億的這個修繕預算這個像比如說台大這種情況他可不可以來申請他當然是可以來的也跟我們報告"},{"start":4012.847,"end":4032.527,"text":"就在徐州路那麼方便我其實每一次走過去我都覺得非常感覺很高興因為那麼漂亮的台大應該想辦法優先把它整理 整修好而不是一直在蓋新的大樓其實我一直覺得我們看歐美幾百年 八百年 九百年的這樣一個學校的一個歷史"},{"start":4033.667,"end":4047.694,"text":"劍橋 牛津我希望我們其實應該要有這樣的一個這樣的一個對歷史建物上的那一個能夠傳遞許多更具有教義人文的這樣意涵的這樣一個教義的一個信息價值出來"},{"start":4048.114,"end":4077.575,"text":"好認同那這邊因為未來是要活化做國際政治學院其實也是我們高教國際化的重點所以呢我在此也要以校的身份呼籲台灣大學這個計畫如果今年因為預算還要審查我非常支持這一筆預算那我希望立法院可以順利通過那我們也呼籲台大要趕快來申請真的競爭型預算還是要公平勝利但是有報有機會不要說連報都沒報那就不能再喊窮了好謝謝部長好謝謝主席謝謝吳佩儀委員謝謝部長請回座"},{"start":4084.344,"end":4086.347,"text":"現在請范雲委員質詢謝謝昭緯有請部長請部長上席詢談"},{"start":4100.522,"end":4117.828,"text":"部長早安又是新會期開始我們一起加油我有認真地看了一下您這次教育部的業務概況報告我想裡面列的部分我都非常的支持知道教育部的用心在各種議題上"},{"start":4119.048,"end":4144.615,"text":"可是中間就缺了一塊因為部長跟我都是教師我一直認為好的教育最核心的就是教師能不能夠有熱血 熱情然後不斷地提升可是針對教師怎麼在職場上發揮他的能力這一塊好像沒有一個專屬的單位我翻了一下裡面只有兩個跟教師有關一個就是私立大學的兼任講師的講師費"},{"start":4146.576,"end":4171.913,"text":"比照公立大學那這個很好可是這個高教可是在國教的部分只有一個偏遠地區的教師如何鼓勵教師士氣我覺得這也很好可是面對剛剛也有委員提到的教師荒就是教育部好像我是覺得回應還是很不夠那我也想提醒教育部這個問題我在一年多前我應該是最早"},{"start":4173.755,"end":4201.434,"text":"據說看到教師荒的問題當時喔不只是開記者會喔那也在總質詢的時候幫教育部爭取你看當時院長承諾合理調整人跟錢我看到的就是人力的問題跟錢不足當時我是幫部長爭取喔是一年多前的質詢就看到教師荒喔那可是到現在為止我覺得提出來的方案還是沒有辦法解決喔那這邊也是"},{"start":4202.274,"end":4219.041,"text":"現在報導的其實一年過了之後教師荒是更加劇更多委員關心了但是我們看到教育部的資訊來源是退休教師校內教師跨校支援部長應該會知道這裡面沒辦法解決現場的問題甚至"},{"start":4220.822,"end":4239.494,"text":"跨校或者是校內教師支援還會讓英文老師去上體育那或者是現有的教師超終點那分掉需要的錢沒有任何的新增人力的話是無法有效解決很多已經有教師資格的人不願意擔任老師"},{"start":4240.515,"end":4254.471,"text":"我之前就用數據告訴教育部說有教師資格的人很多他不願意投入職場或者有一小部分的人投入職場之後離開了這才是問題喔所以呢"},{"start":4255.552,"end":4282.359,"text":"我一年多前就在記者會提出五個問題點為什麼年輕人有教師資格也不願意當老師當然更少人要去取得教師資格又是另外一個問題那其中有非常多項我今天只想針對行政繁重偏離教學專業這個第一線現場的聲音那想跟部長討論其中一個解方的可能性就是有沒有辦法行政專職化"},{"start":4284.359,"end":4307.012,"text":"我知道國教署因為署長正在跟部長講你們的確正在改善中我知道國教署現在想改善的是修正相關的規定得增設副組長一人由教師兼任職員專任或者是兼任這是目前你們的解方"},{"start":4307.772,"end":4334.625,"text":"國教署想要放寬這個原額編制準則增設副組長好像多了一個行政區那也不再有大小班級的級數限制那但是一旦放寬了需要的人力跟經費到底是哪裡來我想這不是國教署那個夠錢補助的但也會地方政府來出錢找經費那國教署修這個編制準則當然不錯"},{"start":4335.465,"end":4349.545,"text":"他看起來最省力可是呢我現在想要跟教育部討論的是這會不會是有實質功用的部長你知道如果國教所這樣修正之後可以全國增加多少個副組長嗎這個部長曉不曉得"},{"start":4352.731,"end":4369.141,"text":"如果這樣我們剛說行政人力不足過去叫代理教師來接那現在就是大家覺得當老師不能夠好好做專業很多時間要做這個那國教署現在推出來解放部長知不知道全國可能會增加多少副組長"},{"start":4371.294,"end":4386.982,"text":"跟委員報告以我們現在國小大概有2600多個學校國中有700多所所以隨著學校的大小規模不一至少比如說以初步的學務人力以單一個學校一個來講就超過3300大概類似這樣的"},{"start":4391.785,"end":4406.068,"text":"超過3300就是說假設一次到位所以從部裡邊的一個角度我們只要增加一個人力或者一個編制事實上它整體的一個預算經費我們都必須要做一個更完整考量"},{"start":4406.528,"end":4429.734,"text":"所以剛才委員所提的那個行政專制化事實上有我進來跟我們內部一直在討論也跟院長報告過但是我們必須要從整體的財政因為確實因為今年裡面有一些變數因為財化完以後讓我們在許多的政策的快速的一個推動裡面我們怎麼樣跟中央跟地方去合作這個部分我們一直在"},{"start":4430.174,"end":4459.171,"text":"好那部長先讓我講一下我覺得你剛說3300太低估了的確國中小的學校3300一個學校不會只有一個你看我上面幫你看出來的大組一個學校大校有多少組教學組 課務組 註冊資訊組小校的話譬如說有些地方小校也有至少三組它會一個學校只能來要一組嗎如果我們一個學校粗估大小也沒有說它每個組都申請到大的不只八組"},{"start":4460.151,"end":4479.896,"text":"粗估有可能是兩萬六千四百位副組長那這個部分您剛講得很好這個地方我們都知道才化法教育本來就是地方事務可是地方政府有要增聘這些副組長嗎他到底是兼任還是職員專任"},{"start":4481.696,"end":4501.289,"text":"我們如果要行政專職化的話就要增加專任那你都知道地方政府教育是長期投資地方政府那個首長可能四年就下台了他這個是大家看不到的我們過去處理代理教師就是這樣他就把人事經費就省下來署長在旁邊非常了解因為他去放煙火"},{"start":4501.869,"end":4517.049,"text":"可能得到的掌聲更多因為教育是長期投資所以我們很需要教育部所以你今天如果是要仰賴地方政府增聘的話我真的覺得是就是這個就是不太可靠也不太可行"},{"start":4517.89,"end":4533.132,"text":"因為如果教師兼任的話那這個教師可能會減瘦終點耶那學校不就要增聘代理代課教師嗎那不就人力要不足嗎那如果其他教師要來抄終點的話那其實是加重教師荒"},{"start":4534.173,"end":4552.862,"text":"兼任會這樣那專任誰出錢地方政府過去的記錄不願意增加專職人類學校也都做了很多的討論大概譬如說屬於教學主場這個學校端老師們也會希望說因為老師比較了解教學這個工作所以這個"},{"start":4553.982,"end":4570.327,"text":"由老師來監視可以但是我們也另外從委員所提的那個概念有一些屬於非教學的譬如說學校的總務 營賽或者我們這一次為什麼優先去支持學校的學務工作室有一些屬於"},{"start":4571.187,"end":4596.557,"text":"不是教學的我們會丟天來指示我是請您關切這個問題國教署端出了一個看起來快速的解方可是我們實質上算一算就是非常不可靠甚至加重教師荒因為你這樣算起來教師荒有一個理由原因是行政不夠專職你增設副組長副組長如果是兼任他就減終點加重教師荒人力更不足所以這個"},{"start":4597.637,"end":4616.258,"text":"就算是你全国增设两万多名只要是兼任的话就不可能解决教师荒专任的话地方政府不会出钱我们过去看到他的记录就是不加所以我诉求三点第一个评估增设人力是不是能够有职员专任的可能性第二个"},{"start":4616.638,"end":4645.349,"text":"了解各縣市增至學校專任職員他有沒有足夠的員額跟經費如果行政要專職化或者你不要專職化你的解方要務實不是增加教師荒的嚴重性所有的評估方案解方都要全面評估審慎研議務實面對我不是覺得國教署不努力而是覺得沒有得到足夠的支持這是一個快速但是已經算下去不能解決的方法"},{"start":4646.584,"end":4674.206,"text":"好 剛剛也有委員提到漲薪水那您在宗嘉賓委員總質詢的時候終於鬆口調漲終點費我要告訴部長一年多前我在總質詢的時候就告訴大家基本工資漲幅遠大於教師終點費的漲幅那個是我當時製作的圖一年多前就告訴你們了當時部長沒有回應我整體因為當時我們還講了其他的議題我很高興你承諾要調漲終點費"},{"start":4676.728,"end":4689.354,"text":"但是問題我想先問一下部長目前調漲終點費的進度如何那天您宗嘉賓總質詢的時候您承諾的進度如何"},{"start":4690.362,"end":4714.493,"text":"事實上我想怎麼樣去提升這個老師的一些許多的這個相關的一些待遇讓他能夠安定教學我想我們跟委員的想法都是一致的那當然這裡邊的許多的國民教育裡面的調查中點會也是大家關心但是因為他一定涉及到地方事務所以我們也跟地方在這邊再看怎麼樣建立一個"},{"start":4715.353,"end":4738.251,"text":"最快什麼時候會上路那是10月1號的新聞我們現在目前是有一個初步的一個內部研議的構想但是因為還沒有跟地方有一個根基那下個因為這也涉及到相關的不管是中央或地方預算有進度我們會跟委員立即報告不能給大家一個時間嗎因為那個部分是只有代理教師我看到你那一天的承諾是代理教師的終點費其實"},{"start":4740.813,"end":4760.572,"text":"最快什麼時候會上路我們現在考慮的終點會是全盤的一個會全盤嗎那我今天就是要跟你講不能夠因為我看那個新聞不能只是代理教師的終點費調整因為以我之前總質詢的表格其實全面來講的話遠低於基本工資調漲的187%國小教師終點費只有漲幅29%"},{"start":4766.717,"end":4793.202,"text":"國高中教師終點費只有漲5%如果我們算到2010年更早就是前面就是算起的話所以這個部分我的看法就是要全面調漲導師費行政加緊學術研究費等嚴領整體的薪資待遇是不是可以請部長也承諾做一下教師的聘任待遇的跨國比較研究好嗎"},{"start":4794.282,"end":4810.055,"text":"因為今天教師剛剛有人講到說教師已經得不到尊重了有研究做清楚政策的一個決策我覺得那是一個非常好的一個那這個研究跟整體評估多久內可以給本席一個報告書面報告我想研究它確實是需要一些時間"},{"start":4810.776,"end":4838.332,"text":"那你要一次调整就要做到好吗对不对我想我事实上也跟委员报告我们的想法跟委员是一致的那我们当然要从整体的国家的整体的一个各个领域的不同行业上的一个报酬还有以及怎么样去关照老师的一个让他生活跟这个他的一个职业的一个价值感能够凸显这都是我们在努力的那可不可以给我一个时间吧部长要给我们一个时间啊"},{"start":4842.098,"end":4869.566,"text":"兩個月夠了吧你可以先初步的研究嗎跟委員報告因為真正要有一個國際比較我認為這個至少要三個月到半年以上才因為就一個專業的研究我相信必須還是要那這樣子好不好您就是兩個月內先給我一個初步的評估最慢半年內給我一個跨國比較然後知道台灣往哪個方向走就待遇提升好嗎"},{"start":4870.246,"end":4887.229,"text":"因為據說您在總質詢喔如果你承諾的不只是代理教師的話那大家都非常的期待你有一個方向喔我想這個問題這麼的急喔那我們希望這個就算一年之內做不到調薪兩年之內也應該要做出來吧 部長"},{"start":4889.108,"end":4910.938,"text":"我們事實上都有在那個方向在做我們也在努力那沒有一個時間可以給大家嗎就是說我們當然因為很多的政策上的一個它是一個整體的一個考量所以我必須要跟委員講委員所關心的一直是我進來裡面我們內部也是一個重要的一個議題在討論而且都有一些"},{"start":4912.245,"end":4940.199,"text":"有一些想法好了那就這樣子因為主席已經站出來了站起來了部長我們一起加油謝謝委員謝謝范雲委員行政官員請回座現在請林沛翔委員進行質詢好謝謝主席有請鄭部長"},{"start":4942.292,"end":4965.492,"text":"請鄭部長備詢委員好鄭部長最近辛苦了尤其是這個嚴重教師的不足這件事情那這件事情嚴格講起來只怪教育部好像也不是個辦法但是教育部既然是主管機關所以這個事情還是必須要向教育部長問得清楚"},{"start":4966.172,"end":4990.578,"text":"部長您在9月25號在中央社的一個發的新聞稿裡面有特地講到你會體恤第一線教育工作者的這個各方面的壓力那我們也必須提到除了我們現在從2024年的這個應該是全國公教工會上面的資料來看那第一名當然是行政工作最重2024年的那個報導那其中有第五名"},{"start":4991.798,"end":5007.838,"text":"这个有关为什么现在的年轻人不愿意当老师这一块第五名就是现在全国教师觉得很头痛的也就是所谓的申诉制度那我们现在是第五名申诉制度已经变成不是申诉而是滥诉了"},{"start":5008.439,"end":5037.458,"text":"因为这个本来是利益良善的机制现在变成是说老师很担心他们随时随地会被申诉而学生他们学生也好家长也好甚至有些科技人士也好因为可以匿名的申诉所以使得教师的士气跟教师的不安定感特别严重变成说这实质上是已经影响到未来甚至现在当老师的当老师的为人师表的意愿"},{"start":5038.298,"end":5060.145,"text":"我們必須很正視現在一個蠻荒謬的現實現行的申訴機制啟動的頻繁程度跟最終確認的微失比例呈現所謂極端的失衡過去一年高達八成的學校曾經啟動所謂的校士會議處理申訴但是最終被認定停聘或解聘的嚴重案件只有6%請問部長"},{"start":5062.446,"end":5081.404,"text":"一个有系统超过九成的案件在投入大量行政跟人力资源进行调查之后居然发现最后没有重大维持那教育部如何去定义这种不成比例的资源浪费呢那这皆是申诉门槛是不是过于低而且还是说整个程序设计存在基本上有缺陷呢"},{"start":5083.543,"end":5100.619,"text":"謝謝委員看到的問題因為確實當時的這個校室會議的這個設立它本來是用來處理不適任教師但是以我們目前所有其實只是老師的班級經營或者他的教學他只要有提醒或者"},{"start":5101.42,"end":5126.577,"text":"同仁或是校长提醒一下或者有一些协助他可能就可以改善的但是现在确实如委员所看到的他大部分都进入到校事会议所以我们现在大概从两个方面来解决第一个就是因为所有的投诉不管匿名或者不匿名的全部都进入到校事会议这不对的"},{"start":5127.097,"end":5155.891,"text":"我们应该在源头分流真正属于不适应教师的指控的这个部分才进入校事会议刚才委员所提的这个也是我要提这有点像小案大办不觉得吗是我完全同意委员就包含说不具名的滥诉这个我们一定要把它完全的排除掉这个也是我们在即将要提出来的一个修正的一个办法里面我们希望让老师回到他的专业专心"},{"start":5156.811,"end":5182.801,"text":"來指導學生容或有所學生的輔導或者一句話班級經營他只要有人來提醒他事實上就可以改正的這個不應該進行到小學我必須這樣子幫軍公教警校這些所謂的我們整個公務系統真的維持整個國家公務系統很重要的人員事實上最高的敬意但是我們也都知道公務人員公務人員四大法則裡面有一塊叫做符合比例原則"},{"start":5183.741,"end":5203.161,"text":"不只是說他們形式規格要符合比例原則他們受處分也要符合比例原則那我們現在看到這個爛數的狀況就是很明顯的這是並沒有符合比例原則所發生的事情所以導致說我們現在消失會議已經變成小案大辦的時候如何去修改所謂的解聘辦法我覺得"},{"start":5203.681,"end":5232.516,"text":"我自己個人認為因為我自己也在大學任教20年雖然我只是代課教師剛剛已經有委員質詢過了那我雖然我是兼任助理教授但是我也知道說學校的態度那他們寧可說寧可在程序上面追求完備而直接把規格提到消失會議上面其實這樣子部長這樣對於一般的從教者就是從事教育的工作者其實是很大的心理上的負擔因為"},{"start":5233.596,"end":5262.416,"text":"我們對於教育者我們有高度的期待尤其現在少子化之外而且現在通常是雙薪家庭又少子化每個孩子都是家裡面的寶我們對教育者對教育者我們有高度的期待尤其是說以前的觀念來講就是把老師看得僅次於家人般重要的尊重程度但是同樣的狀況是現在的整個時空背景不同的時候老師現在所獲得的尊重"},{"start":5263.456,"end":5291.322,"text":"遠遠不及以前我的個人感覺是這樣那這個是時代不同是時代的變遷但是老師身為一個教育工作者的基本權益他們也是要被保障的我必須在這邊幫老師們講話的原因說我自己是老師之外而且我也感同身受現在我們國家一些最基礎的基石正在被撼動不只是教育工作者包括一般的司機跟工人都是因為很容易被濫訴而他們不願意投入這個職場"},{"start":5292.262,"end":5303.449,"text":"而他們不投入職場結果就是我們國家急需要這方面的人才但是沒有人去做這些工作那這方面來講我覺得教育部真的應該要辦起所謂守門員的角色要保護這些人才"},{"start":5304.383,"end":5330.791,"text":"不是只有說高等教育不是只有教授值得被尊重基礎的老師也值得被尊重而如果家長因為一個不滿意或一個匿名的信過去他就要直接到校事會議變成說他要被檢討他要自己想辦法去自己辯護自己而且這些校事會議裡面的時候根據解聘法第43條被申訴的教師到最後的教評會會議之前才能申請閱覽攸關自身清白的調查報告請問部長"},{"start":5333.252,"end":5347.706,"text":"為何在至關重要的教師會議審議階段剝奪教師獲取完整資訊以進行有效答辯的基本權利呢教育部這樣是不是有所謂違反程序正義呢我們一直深信"},{"start":5349.195,"end":5378.282,"text":"保護兒童的受教權益跟讓不適任教師離開校園是沒有衝突的它是絕對是可以兼顧的所以委員所看到的那些問題我們在程序上我們內部都已經有一個草案但是部長我也必須這樣講我們在保護兒童受教權的時候如果我們沒有對老師對這些專業工作者有足夠的尊重那其實最後面就是來的人就是來打工而已"},{"start":5379.002,"end":5394.777,"text":"那这个心态如果出来了话只有倒霉的还是学生维护儿童的受教权同时怎么样去维护老师的教学所有的价值跟让他能够更安心我想他是没有冲突的我们的想法跟委员的看法是一致的"},{"start":5395.057,"end":5421.87,"text":"我認為在東方文化尤其在東方文化裡面中華文化也好東方文化也好對老師的尊重是從以前的年代到現在而我們亞洲人的教育程度為什麼比歐美人老師說真的偏高也是因為我們尊重專業我們尊重老師從小尊重老師長大之後尊重專業所以我們一般來講我們亞洲國家的教育程度比較高我們的人才素質也比較好但是這一點我就必須要提出來"},{"start":5422.97,"end":5451.472,"text":"南韓之前也有一樣的狀況也就是有老師面臨不堪家長濫訴而親身的悲劇之後我們在他們的國會迅速通過所謂的教師權利恢復法案從法律上明確保障教師的正當生活指導權而且對惡意申訴的家長建立問責制度包括罰款跟書面道歉請問部長我們教育部有沒有對南韓這樣的立法模式我們有沒有做出一定程度的官方評估呢"},{"start":5452.267,"end":5473.36,"text":"我想這個我們來會後我們來更積極的來進一步了解看怎麼樣能夠結合我們在未來的這個校事會讓它能夠更完整確保老師的一個整個教學跟他的工作的價值跟尊嚴部長本席今天把這件事把這件事情直接攤開在國會殿堂裡面講為了是幫這些老師追求兩個字叫公平是"},{"start":5473.94,"end":5502.181,"text":"沒有道理說這個我被申訴了而我如果真的做錯事我被申訴了然後我是惡意做這些事情的我是應該被懲罰沒有錯但是如果是對方是抱著歧視抱著惡意來去針對我的作為這當然是不允許的那這樣的話是否要有一個公平的機制假設這個人是惡意的毀謗那我還不能保護自己的權益那我當然想說我可以去交補習班我可以去交別的地方我大可不用在那受侮辱啊"},{"start":5502.941,"end":5515.51,"text":"因為我教書是專業啊教書是種專業不要覺得說只是說現在有AI之後什麼事都很方便教書怎麼樣透過教學上面怎麼樣透過言語跟小孩子教一定程度的價值觀跟邏輯思維這個是AI無法教的"},{"start":5517.972,"end":5544.238,"text":"那如果我們現在不保護這些老師未來我們就沒有人去幫我們把這些正確的價值觀把它傳續下去這點很重要所以我會希望說我是希望說教育部在這一個月之內針對本席提出來的建立申訴分級制度而且還有建立所就是參考南韓國會所過的教師權利恢復法來保障教師的正當生活指導權而且對於說再去遏止在源頭"},{"start":5545.018,"end":5558.264,"text":"這些惡意濫訴的這些不知道是匿名人士而且這種匿名報信報告者不應該存在這個在我們修訂的辦法我完全同意委員的說法匿名的我們以後不會再處理了"},{"start":5558.888,"end":5575.743,"text":"就是說這一個以現在來看我們的數據事實上真正到最後因為校試法然後校試的整個處理以後這個不適任老師大概只有占2點多%而已所以以這樣來看而且這些我們看到的"},{"start":5576.643,"end":5592.677,"text":"實際的案例都是具名的更多都是不具名我們認為民主法制就應該把這個爛訴不具名不負責任我們某種程度應該先把它排除掉這是我們在新的機制裡面部長 本席在這邊提出三個改革方向第一個"},{"start":5593.277,"end":5593.437,"text":"可以的有"},{"start":5611.798,"end":5634.885,"text":"今天在場不只是我想不想葛如君委員甚至每一個在場教育委員會包括劉書斌老師在場都會覺得說這是對我們基層教育者最基本的保護這點教育部可不可以幫我們當守門員我們會把我們修訂的一個跟委員的這樣一個精神我們來跟委員做報告好 謝謝好 謝謝林沛翔委員質詢那行政官員請回座現在請葛如君委員進行質詢"},{"start":5655.452,"end":5660.094,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長請部長委員長早部長剛剛我們提到尊重權益公平不只是教師當然也一定要有學生日前有立委同僚在院會總質詢的時候公然提到我們的青少年"},{"start":5684.003,"end":5690.09,"text":"北罵北罵啦我想請問你身為教育部長認同這樣的說法嗎部長現在鏡頭有在拍喔"},{"start":5699.087,"end":5724.836,"text":"我想當然這有一些通俗的話但年輕人他確實會有比較多的一些點子有一些可能會作怪在生活裡面難免我想我本來下一句要接的是你應該會說不認同給你一個機會結果你現在還在玩文字遊戲還在包庇我們失言的委員同僚"},{"start":5726.921,"end":5743.063,"text":"這個其實完全不是一個好的表率這是一個不當的歧視性的言論我們哪一個青少年北罵了喜歡新點子好奇心有創意這是北罵嗎"},{"start":5744.707,"end":5768.744,"text":"部長 你要不要有點擔當啊當時你沒有提醒委員表示疑慮沒有這樣的勇氣我現在給你一個機會這是不是一個不當的歧視性的言論啊有一些年輕人有創意確實年輕人他是創意不是 他就是用這個話來描述嘛 總質詢耶你是教育部長耶能不能給你一個機會表達一下疑慮啊這要有一點道德的勇氣 您沒有嗎"},{"start":5769.845,"end":5796.54,"text":"我想因為很多的場合確實年輕人他有更多的一些創意所以更多的創意就值得北罵嗎當然這樣如果是創意或者用其他形式表示在一個我們校務的一個規範裡面當然符合的當然是不宜的我想這個真的是不要貼標籤好不好那我想這個也要再次來詢問您"},{"start":5798.681,"end":5827.961,"text":"在這個過程裡面其實有疑慮的還不只是我們的委員同僚還包括您的發言我們也非常驚嚇也很好奇這個圖的左下角你說讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生請教一下部長教育部是有接到家長或學生的投訴說有老師在上課的時候用抖音內容來指導學生嗎有幾件哪些教育階段什麼樣的課程內容教育部後續如何處理請回應"},{"start":5829.982,"end":5848.749,"text":"我想確實我們看到有一些這個抖音上的一些沒有啊 您說的是老師用抖音來指導學生喔確實也有老師所以你們有收到這樣的訊息嗎老師用抖音來教學生有收到這樣的訊息是什麼教育階段高中 大學 小學"},{"start":5851.724,"end":5858.136,"text":"你們不能沒有細節內容就這樣子在國會殿堂裡面給我們教育人員潑髒水部長"},{"start":5860.871,"end":5881.273,"text":"你看你現在事故 結果沒有人上來啊您作為大家長 您這樣子沒有具體的事證要來批評我們教育人員專業專業人員有沒有這樣的事證小學 高中 國中 大學您如果說不出來 您現在要道歉喔"},{"start":5882.182,"end":5907.312,"text":"这没有道歉的一个问题所以有没有这个案件有没有案件因为在全国的学术网络不好意思 部长我们就事论事您说出来的话我们要有根据请问有没有这样的事证是有人跟我提过这样的一个事情有人部长我想我们您作为教育的主管机关您是大家长"},{"start":5908.618,"end":5937.472,"text":"不要有人來作為評據在我們國會的殿堂總質詢來做評論我想委員本身也是在科技上的一個專業的一個學者我們事實上也看了許多的這個國內外的包括這個研究裡面不好意思我在這裡我要向代表全體教育人員我還是要說如果您沒有具體事證您先道歉有具體事證一日內交出來可以嗎"},{"start":5938.806,"end":5959.257,"text":"我这个里边的根据当然是来自于国内外许多研究上的证据我们希望这个抖音确实对青少年身心的发展我想部长您对于这个教师学生的误会我想也不是第一天了大家都看到了我想我再继续问我想既然给你机会去解释说明"},{"start":5960.017,"end":5983.573,"text":"你現在也解釋得不清不楚一下子又聽說有人 一下又說國內國外我想我們要本於事證我想您的留任不應該是用這種方式我想再問部長 10月7號的時候總質詢的時候還有立委又提議說教育部是不是要研議針對國中小學學生老師在校使用手機 禁止使用抖音"},{"start":5984.722,"end":6004.766,"text":"然後還有這個有沒有教育部還發函說這個小紅書有423件這個案例也要禁止使用或是說要小心有沒有這樣的事有沒有發文有嗎我們是請吳司長說明一下有沒有發文也是聽說嗎有沒有發文請吳司長時間暫停"},{"start":6015.407,"end":6036.652,"text":"有或沒有教育部有沒有發這個文會不知道啊可以這樣嗎跟委員報告有有發文啊對這是從警政署165的這個反詐騙上面的筆表板上的信息謝謝啊部長您現在知道了這個東西有多荒謬啊我告訴你啊423件啊看一下165反詐騙啊小紅書420多件啊"},{"start":6043.763,"end":6063.703,"text":"SWEETSWEETSWEET 4600件臉書16000件40倍啊是不是要全部禁掉你為什麼就是這樣子選擇性的呢部長我想這是你們對於這些平台的態度嗎選擇性嗎看顏色嗎為什麼16000件的你沒發文為什麼400件的要發文呢"},{"start":6069.198,"end":6090.189,"text":"是 跟委員報告就是有關於就是小紅樹我現在講這個公文你講400多件你發一個文叫全國說要小心怎麼會這樣子呢我們真的去查165就是臉書 其他平台好幾倍啊 40倍啊部長 本席多次針對科技教育跟您討論"},{"start":6092.566,"end":6114.533,"text":"這個21世紀本來就是多元工具 多元科技的時代抖音 小紅書 臉書 IG Twitter這些都是社群平台每天都有各種訊息流傳 有真有假YT上面也有各種國家的人開的帳號難道教育部要為了禁止特定訊息的傳播把這些平台通通禁掉嗎"},{"start":6115.433,"end":6135.795,"text":"更何況我想部長看一下這段影片抖音美國總統川普有官方帳號還叫大家要上網那是怎麼樣我們學生上課或下課的時候下課的時候看一下美國總統川普練習一下英文不行嗎"},{"start":6137.27,"end":6165.544,"text":"川普怎麼 中共同路人嗎去抖音散佈假訊息嗎不要這樣一概而論那我們來看嘛這幾個字是現在最夯的這個學生老師上去休閒的時間下課的時間看一下我們民主之光的質詢影片增進對於政治的理解跟熱情有錯嗎"},{"start":6166.929,"end":6177.821,"text":"不要去誤解孩子們的這些行動跟行為可不可以做到啊可不可以做到包容多元到哪裡去了可以做到嗎"},{"start":6179.4,"end":6195.734,"text":"其實跟委員報告就是有關於抖音跟小紅書因為基本上它是根據行政院各機關對危害國家資通安全的限制使用原則然後它是因為目前它是大陸的不是啦不是啦"},{"start":6197.896,"end":6214.73,"text":"不管是哪裡來的產品都有可能有真假訊息這其實就是讓大家能夠有判斷的基準數位素養 AI 素養其實這是一種非常非常重要的一個過程所以我想不要做這種選擇性的判斷"},{"start":6216.943,"end":6238.673,"text":"我們還是非常憂心 這個聽過了我們還是非常憂心 親子天下最近針對1.3萬名國小五到九年級的學生進行調查九成的學生認識AI 75%的人懂得使用AI結果高達42%的學生很少或從未想過網路資訊有假"},{"start":6241.67,"end":6258.525,"text":"部長 這個調查結果真的讓人很擔憂這跟用什麼平台 不用什麼平台沒有關係禁止學生接觸特定的數位平台或數位工具只會讓學生對於錯誤 錯假資訊的免疫力有可能是直線下降的"},{"start":6259.506,"end":6278.336,"text":"還有可能要老師去檢查又破壞師生關係希望部長您既然留任了不要隨著特定的政治風向起舞變成一種廉價的政治附庸拿手這樣子大家會覺得這變成一個北罵到底是誰在哪裡呢"},{"start":6281.918,"end":6289.003,"text":"還沒有這一個成熟的一個過程裡面我們怎麼樣給他一個更適切的一個當然報案委員長的怎麼樣去辨識辨識這些"},{"start":6299.136,"end":6316.345,"text":"2022年 现在已经三年了你还在什么不成熟部长你在外的时间对于这个完全就是作为不足嘛这当然也是教育上的一个价值我真的要诚心告诉部长我们真的是迫在眉睫"},{"start":6317.866,"end":6342.588,"text":"剛宣布的這個Global AI Index三大面向122個指標評測83個國家的AI能力美國如果是第一名100分的話台灣排多少部長知不知道我告訴部長台灣賣AI全球第一用AI全球第21日本名列前茅"},{"start":6344.402,"end":6369.748,"text":"韓國第六 新加坡第三這就是我們台灣在AI的一個狀態我想真的是要跟部長講不只是國中小高中大學全面的AI人才我也要跟您探討新加坡的做法是什麼他還特別重視一個都不能少社會的中間份子40歲以上的持續來佈建"},{"start":6371.55,"end":6392.189,"text":"部長您應該知道我們有這個終身學習師吧是那我們看了這個預算啊終身學習師為什麼沒有科技資源沒有科技的教育這一塊為什麼獨露這個部分呢我們40歲以上終身教育不需要AI不需要做科技教育資源嗎"},{"start":6392.89,"end":6419.687,"text":"在乐宁社大我们事实上开很多相关的课也希望在乐宁的一个科技方面的科技的没有的话有没有补救的措施跟我们报告是有的有的学习在社大里边开开许多这方面的好相关资料会后提供好不好那我想其实真的一个都不能少全年龄我们希望教育部来评估因为文化部有做过这个文化币"},{"start":6420.447,"end":6444.989,"text":"那我們教育部能不能來評估AI幣能夠全年齡段去發放不同額度的AI幣讓大家來體驗AI的差異來上AI相關的一個普及的課程我想要再次向部長重申我們剛剛提到的新加坡40歲以上的人給予AI科技進修加碼學習補助每個月最高可以到台幣7萬塊"},{"start":6447.305,"end":6475.129,"text":"讓AI人才變成人人都是才那看到我們台灣賣AI第一名結果用AI是全球第21名這個我們真的是要好好來努力一下那最後因為主席已經站起來了最後一個很重要的議題我覺得沒有投影片想請教一下部長教育部很關心這個財化法對預算的影響那我們仔細看了一下跟這個114年有啦 有一個投影片"},{"start":6475.689,"end":6502.354,"text":"跟114年相比我們發現你們少了160億元那砍在哪裡我看了都心痛砍在2到6歲的15%減了100億砍在失陪教育與藝術教育是怎麼樣我們失陪教育我們藝術教育值得被砍了嗎全數三減那我們看了你們有開14次會議4次溝通會議"},{"start":6504.634,"end":6517.013,"text":"那有的有共識 但是是不是沒有共識現在共識的情況怎麼樣 有共識了嗎他們哪些地方要去做 有沒有共識了部長 十四次會議了 您不要表情木然"},{"start":6518.68,"end":6533.472,"text":"跟委員報告事實上在這個財化委員會以後我們原來譬如說2到6歲編列這個688億那現在教育部還事實上從國教署還是有600億會補助地方那另外就是說等於地方他承擔了88億類似這樣的"},{"start":6535.213,"end":6552.499,"text":"那都有共識了沒他們對於這個接下來規劃你們有相關的交易業務要順利推行不可以突然就這樣子地方我們事實上開過許多的一次許多的一個會議也跟地方首長在整個經會上我們當然都有一些保持密切的一些"},{"start":6553.539,"end":6579.567,"text":"我想部長這本預算書是在您任內編完的部長要負起全責確保各項教育業務要能夠順利推行下去部長可不可以在我們全體國人面前還有我們這個主席也站起來了這個我們能不能跟我們一起承諾無論如何教育部一定會確保各項教育業務順利推行窮不能窮窮教育苦不能苦孩子能不能跟我們承諾"},{"start":6580.883,"end":6600.997,"text":"確保教育政策許多的這個既定的政策能夠落實能夠執行這當然是教育部責務龐大的責任好 我們大家一起努力啦既然內閣改組以後您繼續留任我想我們還有很多挑戰要來克服我們一起來努力 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝葛禄區委員請行政官員回席"},{"start":6608.339,"end":6619.828,"text":"好 現在請葉元之委員進行質詢請教育部長 謝謝請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":6628.946,"end":6655.855,"text":"部長好我想來跟你討論一下缺老師問題這個問題其實之前也都問過您記得八月的時候那時候我有提出說我們應該來好好的檢討一下校事會議然後有請您去跟基層老師座談那也非常感謝後來我就發現八月的時候你到我們板橋來來辦了一場跟基層老師座談會代表你也是說到做到這一點要給你肯定但是就是說我不曉得你跟老師座談完之後對於校事會議"},{"start":6656.855,"end":6677.39,"text":"你們現在有什麼改革的方案嗎基本上大概我們從北中南這一個不僅老師當然包含校長我們家長我們事實上也都有一些座談那大概我們現在發現原來的校士會本來他是希望解決那些不適合教師來處理不適合教師透過"},{"start":6679.597,"end":6703.875,"text":"外聘的這些公正的委員來協助處理但是學校實際在運作的時候我們看到那個流程是大小事都到校事會議這個是不對的所以我們希望以後是真正的不是任教師才走這個流程其他的應該是從學校的一個輔導這一個班級經營的真人或者老師的一個提醒或者甚至有一些"},{"start":6704.816,"end":6729.495,"text":"這一個教師的一些行為預約的這些專業的一個承諾但是不至於進入到教師會議這一個可能進考機考核就是說這個先婚女第二個就是不具名的因為我們從這一年來所有的data裡面看走入到不適合老師裡面那26位的老師都是具名指控的也就是說大部分"},{"start":6730.296,"end":6758.716,"text":"沒有進入到或者不成立的都是不具名的所以我們希望減少這個爛數能夠減少這個不必要去造成學校真正的一個運作上的困擾我想這個部分我們也會把它在未來修正的方向也會把它好 那個接下來我們就來具體討論一下謝謝你發現的問題而且也願意要解決因為校師會議真的是很多老師非常痛恨的他當然有他的功能存在但是後來已經走到爛數了是"},{"start":6759.597,"end":6762.279,"text":"我們可以看幾個數據這我跟你們教一步要的你看113年4月17號到114年5月30號校士會議總共開了1372次總共有1124個老師被調查其中382個是發現根本沒這回事"},{"start":6778.27,"end":6806.432,"text":"結案了然後最後停聘只有六個啊停聘率大概是1.9可見這中天有多少爛數多少爛數那這個爛數我們現在看到只是數字而已啊可是對老師來說是一個煎熬他就莫名其妙被一個人也不知道是誰檢舉的而且是一個主觀的評論說這個老師孟茂老師很兇他就要進入到校事會議然後被調查二到四個月正常來講校事會議規定是幾個月要完成調查"},{"start":6810.278,"end":6821.616,"text":"兩個月可以延長一個月再加一個月對 就是最多四個月對 所有大概大家都被大概就是要被煎熬四個月那我有跟你們平均調查期間可是你們沒有統計"},{"start":6822.816,"end":6849.323,"text":"基本上校食會議你應該要讓他調查時間越短越好啊你看如果一個老師他被調查四個月結果發現不好意思你是冤枉的那不是開玩笑嗎這老師在上課的時候難道心情都不會受到影響四個月同意委員的說話所以你當然時間要越短越好啊然後還有一個校食會議一個非常不合理的地方是一般來說如果有人要檢舉那要證明他有罪嘛"},{"start":6850.031,"end":6877.601,"text":"對不對 要具體的證據人事物結果常常老師莫名其妙被檢舉以後是老師要自證無罪我就舉一個例子有一個網紅老師他在網路上常常發表一些跟教育有關的文章因為寫得非常好所以非常多人去閱讀結果莫名其妙被人家檢舉說他是不是有利用他的網紅身分收業配結果他又被進入校事會議他要去證明說我沒有收業配"},{"start":6878.889,"end":6908.106,"text":"這不是已經反過來了嗎是不是應該檢舉他的人應該要說他收業配啊怎麼會他來證明自己沒有收業配呢這也是我們希望說那些沒有負責不具名的我們就不再接受所以校士會議真的我覺得你初步了解的這個問題嚴重性我覺得還要更進一步的了解到底他在執行上面要怎麼做到對老師更尊重而且不要影響到老師教學那校士會議現在部長你現在講的應該是要修這一條對不對我們直接看"},{"start":6908.82,"end":6925.563,"text":"就是在高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘的或資檢辦法的第九條的第三點對不對你現在是要修這條嗎就是檢舉人如果未具真實姓名或足以識別其身份資訊"},{"start":6927.239,"end":6947.657,"text":"然後後面還有個但書但檢舉內容包括行為人你說這第三點整個修掉是不是但書修掉所以意思就是說以後只要是匿名檢舉通通依據依蓋不受理只要匿名檢舉就依蓋不受理確定了嗎那這個大概什麼時候會修"},{"start":6949.704,"end":6977.329,"text":"我們在年底之前會年底那這段時間您現在已經發現問題而且很嚴重那在這段時間到年底我們有初步的一些調整那當然目前也在徵詢各地方在實際上這個整個運作裡面怎麼樣未來能夠更順暢沒有 因為我看這個問題很嚴重那您也願意修這要給你肯定就是說以後匿名就不受理但是那這個空窗期還要二到三個月"},{"start":6978.109,"end":6991.408,"text":"那是不是直接就不受理就好不然這裡二三個月你也發現有問題可是匿名的照樣受理那不是跟你的想法完全背道而馳嗎或者是說你趕快修嘛"},{"start":6992.594,"end":7008.288,"text":"如果說只是把這條拿掉不是很快嗎先跟委員報告因為這整個委員剛剛的分流還有這個受理不受理它是整套嘛所以委員指導的說中間能不能夠先有趕快做一些處理10月1號我們有先發了一個行政的要求我們會後給委員"},{"start":7010.169,"end":7031.822,"text":"所以要求就是說從現在開始如果是匿名的就不受理嗎因為這個是法條這一部分的話學校都知道會嚴謹的執行但是分流那一塊還有相關的執行的要項我們11月1號有發一個文那是分流啦我現在講的是匿名我說的匿名也會包含說學校在運用第九條的時候的一些想法我們有做一張表"},{"start":7032.644,"end":7057.566,"text":"好啦 那就朝這個方向好不好好 謝謝部長第二個 薛老師其實還有一個問題也跟部長反映一下現在因為108課綱實施以後其實老師的壓力都變大了以前他們有教材現在108課綱是要求老師要編教材有一些課程 對不對然後另外就是還有要教報告很多額外的工作要做但是"},{"start":7058.467,"end":7083.454,"text":"他們雖然說壓力提高可是相關的待遇福利並沒有相對也提升我這邊提一個建議就是能不能針對高中國中跟國小的老師通通可以減基本的終點授課時數因為高中現在是16堂國中是18堂小學是20堂一律就減兩個小時就是高中是14小時國中16小時小學是18個小時"},{"start":7088.068,"end":7090.272,"text":"讓他們有多的時間可以專心去備課這樣有機會嗎"},{"start":7094.022,"end":7116.807,"text":"感謝委員這當然也是書寫老師教學壓力的一個方式因為它也涉及到地方就是說我們這個物理編定的地方它也有地方的一些規範另外事實上隨著108課綱裡面我們也期待也鼓勵大學因為確實有一些老師他本來的專業並沒有譬如說以海洋"},{"start":7117.287,"end":7140.967,"text":"或者我們現在在談AI的一些高科技的一些產業那怎麼樣去善用結合大學的思思譬如說我們也看到台與台大因為我跟你講我們時間快到了我現在就針對我的建議就是高中 國中 小學各減兩個小時那您剛剛提到這限制到地方但實際上如果說這個政策的問題交易部這樣定定的當然你會考慮到經費"},{"start":7142.168,"end":7160.823,"text":"因為如果說高中譬如說16個小時他減2個小時他就剩14個小時你可能會考慮到說那他多出來課誰要教對吧那其實你就直接給他超終點津貼就好了嘛那其實我幫你算過了啦大概這樣也差不了多少錢啦可能一個老師就一個月就多大概三四千塊台北市算過"},{"start":7162.165,"end":7176.46,"text":"現在老師也覺得他的超充鐵已經不勝負荷了那也可以再增嘛如果你有錢我還沒講完台北市有算過如果是這樣子運作的話他大概一年是增加兩億左右所以全國大概就是增加二三十億"},{"start":7177.361,"end":7200.329,"text":"你只要一年編二三十億全國的老師他可以減兩個小時的終點那如果他超終點的話大概就是全國就增加了二十幾億剛才我已經在提台北市以台北市的一個財政部其實我覺得他只可以優先來做優先來鼓勵我是希望教育部可以統一做教育部直接變預算因為你們之前送來那個特別預算"},{"start":7201.249,"end":7219.549,"text":"國家是任性的你覺得高教任性有問題所以你就編了兩百億高教就編了兩百億給高教我認為國教也同等重要我們是支持你編預算給高教但你高教都可以編兩百億國教我這邊幫你算過大概二三十億你說對不起這個錢我沒有"},{"start":7220.185,"end":7234.356,"text":"那真的就是 我覺得我要替國教這些老師感到委屈啦 也吃醋啦部長為什麼你好像對高教就比較重視在特別預算的時候我言很清楚 我本身也是小學老師對嘛 所以不能忘本嘛而且我講這個東西我跟你講 現在因為"},{"start":7238.88,"end":7267.757,"text":"就像上次跟你讲的譬如说现在缺军人所以我们提升军人的待遇同样的缺老师当然在待遇上面也许没有办法达到他们的真正的百分之百期待但是这是一种尊重所以我提出这样的要求也许你第一次听或怎么样你研议一下 好不好20亿相较于你给高教200亿其实不赚多但是可以让老师们获得一定的尊重基本上我其实对国民教育就是说教育部在另一个最基本的一个"},{"start":7268.917,"end":7290.663,"text":"規範也同時鼓勵我們各地方縣市政府因地制以包含財政怎麼樣有一個對國民教育包含老實的一個支持好啦 那個副長因為推給地方政府啦您就肩膀挑起來啦因為這個是統一的政策啦你先研究一下這統一的政策嘛委員所講我聽進去我們也願意來研議但是我也希望"},{"start":7291.443,"end":7319.242,"text":"地方政府可以啊那你就找地方政府一起来讨论但总是要有人起头跟带头当领头羊嘛对嘛而且这个事情如果你演绎之后你发现值得做那大家再来讨论裁员的问题嘛中央觉得20亿对老师好我愿意花有价值我们给你肯定你如果想说哎呀高教我比较愿意支持给200亿没问题但是国教20亿我觉得我很舍不得那我们就来讨论嘛对不对好不好"},{"start":7321.504,"end":7327.262,"text":"但是委員局不要跟我這麼講那你一個月內好不好一個月內不要跟我講說我對國教不重視"},{"start":7328.258,"end":7356.177,"text":"那就展現出重視的態度給大家看一下這個是一個月內第三個議題就是我們針對校園的安全我一直非常關心部長您應該也知道也非常謝謝您在去年的時候給了每個學校一個校安人員國中校安人員我跟很多國中問過其實他們都覺得即便是只有一個非常少但是那一位也都扮演很重要的角色我還要再跟你今年能不能再多一個"},{"start":7357.217,"end":7374.91,"text":"國中好不好再一個延益因為今天第一次這個會第一次質詢我都先把議題拋出來對能夠再一個我的目標其實不是只有一個我的目標是比照高中六班一個但是現在既然一個它有發揮作用那再一個一定是效果比較好還有一個問題"},{"start":7376.67,"end":7397.424,"text":"我們現在常發現說現在學校寄過好像都沒有什麼意義了因為有學生寄到一個大過兩個大過 三個大過過去我們被寄過我們那個時代三個大過退學現在是三個大過沒關係四個大過 五個大過 十個大過都沒有問題他不能退學要嘛就是轉學轉學就成為另外一個學校的問題這個部長您知道嗎"},{"start":7398.68,"end":7418.598,"text":"那其實我們教育除了這些被記過很多個大過的學生的受教權之外去保護善良願意上課的學生也是很重要對吧所以這是一個問題我在上會期就有提過我不知道你們有沒有方案那沒關係我這邊具體建議一個我建議啦去找民間基金會合作"},{"start":7419.258,"end":7431.777,"text":"然後去成立那些中介教育組織讓那些真的在學校已經被記那麼多大過應該就是適應不良了啦在學校已經沒有辦法繼續才會一直被記過嘛找民間的"},{"start":7432.796,"end":7450.875,"text":"基金會或協會跟他合作成立中介教育組織讓他們獲得其他的中介的教育那我覺得你可以去找人本基金會啦因為人本基金會以人為本愛的教育我相信他們可以提供一個不錯的中介教育組織好不好 你這個部分你也研究一下"},{"start":7452.016,"end":7467.529,"text":"除了人本基金會是我建議你可以找其他的單位中介組織來解決這個問題還有一件事情現在教師人員有身心調試假三天主席再一下三天身心調試假有吧"},{"start":7469.229,"end":7496.423,"text":"那這個是你們的宣傳說增訂的身心調試假所以現在教師看起來他最多可以請7天的病假可以請7天的試假又最多可以請3天的身心調試假還可以請3天的家庭照顧假對吧 這是說他們最多可以請的假但是部長7加7加3加3等於幾在數學上7加7加3加3是不是應該等於20對吧"},{"start":7498.851,"end":7525.994,"text":"我看他是 对吧我说数学上7加7加3加3是不是等于20没错 数学啦我问你数学 没错吧但是7天的病假加7天的试假加3天的身心调试假再加3天的家庭照顾假等于7啦他们这全部都是你可以请没关系可是不能超过7天没有啦这个 对不对你都病入试病假计算嘛"},{"start":7526.963,"end":7549.143,"text":"那对于一个老师而言教育部给我三天的身心调治假好高兴 我多三天假然后一般的人也以为说老师好棒等一下 老师我还没讲完其他人也觉得说老师好棒七天是病假之外又多了三天的身心调治假还有三天的家庭照顾假"},{"start":7549.904,"end":7561.962,"text":"但大家不知道的是你请了三天的家庭照顾假或你请了三天的身心调治假你嗜病假就剩四天这是一种朝三暮四的概念"},{"start":7563.663,"end":7585.538,"text":"所以部長不要為德不足啦如果你認為身心調適假那麼重要那個考試院之前說公務人員可以請這個身心調適假配合賴總統健康台灣的願景啊哇 大家都羨慕的不得了不好意思 你請身心調適假你士兵假就少三天所以如果真的認為這個東西那麼重要的話應該要用外加啦你同不同意"},{"start":7589.366,"end":7604.048,"text":"我們繼續努力不是 你同不同意不是努力啦同不同意因為你看到主席站起來你就想說是不是隨便講兩句話我就離開沒有 我們後來問一個比較具體的答案部長我想我們當然"},{"start":7605.578,"end":7629.04,"text":"完全了解老師的一個期待那當然從整個一個政府部門公部門他整體的一個不同的一個職業類別上的一些考量所以我們對老師的一個身心調適叫過去他用試駕他是要自付代理 代課費那我們這邊教育部是來支持你幫他付代課費這我曉得啦我現在講的是駕有幾天的問題嘛"},{"start":7630.95,"end":7651.121,"text":"對不對 好不好 部長 演繹因為這個不注意站起來 但是我希望真的演繹是不是可以給我們一個說明 好不好可以嗎 可以啊 好 謝謝謝謝岳元之委員的質詢那謝謝行政官員請回座"},{"start":7652.182,"end":7667.461,"text":"先說明等一下在萬美玲委員質詢結束之後就休息10分鐘那我們現在先進行羅廷偉委員的質詢好謝謝召委有請部長請鄭部長"},{"start":7674.417,"end":7691.449,"text":"好部長好部長剛剛我們在下面看到這個板東之虎葉源之的質詢為我們教育發聲好久不見了部長首先先恭喜部長在今年8月下旬的內閣小改組留任下來"},{"start":7692.475,"end":7708.815,"text":"那還記得我上一次也給你許多的一些鼓勵那我想教育是百年大業相信應該還有很多的政策及法案要推動那不曉得這個惠琦部長對於政務的推動有沒有什麼想法有沒有什麼政策一定要完成法案要完成可不可以簡單說明"},{"start":7710.131,"end":7725.663,"text":"我想第一個最簡單的就是我希望提供給學校中小學老師有一個更安穩更值得尊敬的一個工作的環境也就是說校事會議一定要優先來改善對 校事會議是我們非常關注的"},{"start":7727.204,"end":7746.724,"text":"這個年底之前可以提出具體的一些方案嗎是 我目前是設定這樣一個期限給自己的一個自我要求好 因為剛剛我有聽到就是您對於這個原本是要處理一些不適任教師但大大小小事務都進入到校師會議那我想也衍生出許多的問題"},{"start":7747.685,"end":7769.996,"text":"那不管是社會的輿論甚至是您來自教育界我想這個您都很清楚那您覺得目前各地的訪談足夠嗎要再增加嗎還是已經收容了這些相關的意見我們事實上在我進來之前事實上去年520我事實上對這個校式會議已經有一個初步的輪廓也就是說"},{"start":7771.389,"end":7790.58,"text":"當我決定要進來教育部的時候我事實上也跟地方的一些第一線上的校長家長跟老師有一定的一些...我知道有一定的訪談啦只是說我擔心訪談的內容會不會不夠那要不要再增加你再考慮但我想今天你有講到重點第一不管是教師的環境甚至我們之前在講的"},{"start":7791.46,"end":7813.699,"text":"教师特教的家籍要增加因为他们多如牛毛的工作甚至是为终点老师甚至是代理教师这些为他们发声到刚刚所提到的身心调试架这个东西我们都希望在未来中能够更有具体的有一些做法来捍卫他们的工作权益"},{"start":7814.119,"end":7839.709,"text":"這個部分我希望不管是校師會議您給自己的期限是在年底剛剛所提到的身心調適假還有我們所謂的特教啊或者是老師的家籍啊鐘點老師這個部分的一些權益是不是您也可以給我們一些期限呢應該這麼講說身心調適假老師的期待我們充分了解我們也希望在未來能夠朝那個方向來努力半年"},{"start":7840.843,"end":7869.204,"text":"還是年底這個當然因為我必須要這個坦白從寬從整個國家的一個大的一個運作他當然這個不同的一些遷移法動全身我都知道整個體制上但我們希望就是說所有老師不希望看到官員只是回答演繹但是完全沒有動作所以我希望說在這個過程當中有具體的包含老師的許多事實上都是我們念之再之我們一直在努力好的"},{"start":7870.044,"end":7888.132,"text":"我想就先就兩個財化法修法後的問題請教首先三張EQ現在的政策財化法修正以後中央將不再補助學校午餐的三張EQ的一個獎勵金改由地方政府自行來增加統籌分配款稅款以後的編列預算負擔"},{"start":7889.652,"end":7901.504,"text":"財化法修正後讓地方政府自行投入可能會導致差距擴大但是部分的地方財力較弱的縣市是否會影響學校營養午餐的品質這個你有掌握嗎"},{"start":7904.173,"end":7921.942,"text":"是不是请署长来说谢谢委员那这个38亿或是还有偏乡厨房跟这个弱势学生21亿这74亿如果到县市的话那我们都会要求这个要回编原来的数额"},{"start":7922.642,"end":7941.015,"text":"好 這個一定要全面的去了解控管我想財化法在修法的一個初期當中我們都能夠了解我們是希望地方政府能夠擁有更多的資源那在這個整體財化法修法以後呢配套措施現在不只是釋出相對應的預算"},{"start":7942.296,"end":7957.437,"text":"中央也釋放相對應的應該負擔的責任我想配套已經做好但是我們看到了不管是統籌分配款或者是地方我們現在的計劃性補助款中央也有自己中央的一個做法"},{"start":7958.098,"end":7980.544,"text":"那有可能會導致到地方在整個財化法利益良善希望去增加資源的前提之下反對應的是被剝削了中央所過度的去做一個配套我想這個部分我們不應該在這邊全盤討論但是就現在說的三張EQ如果有的地方政府"},{"start":7981.184,"end":7984.092,"text":"有的縣已經遇到這樣的狀況我們應該要給予一個關心針對財政狀況的一個困難我們現在還有第二個"},{"start":7990.768,"end":8010.896,"text":"學校電費的部分明年度回歸由地方政府依法編列預算來負擔按教育部現在的說法不是取消補助而是回歸既有的財政機制因為新版的財化法已大幅增加地方的統籌分配稅款理論上地方應該有財力可以去支應電費請問部長"},{"start":8012.978,"end":8024.273,"text":"現在地方政府負擔學校電費落財政困難教育部會如何因應保障學生的授教權教育部針對財政困難的縣市還會有提供什麼樣的協助請問"},{"start":8027.298,"end":8046.399,"text":"確實我們當時因應這個財化法我們跟地方22個縣市政府我們當然知道地方縣市政府明顯的一個首長他有許多城市發展的施政理念跟重點那我們也希望說因應這個財化法以後來自於中央補助給地方的這個屬於教育經費的這個部分也能夠讓 及早讓"},{"start":8048.401,"end":8074.906,"text":"這個地方教育局處所長知道所以也希望在整個地方在編列這個教育經會的時候不要去影響到教育局處許多學校教育的運作跟正常的一些這是我們的期望嘛所以我還是要講如果還是遇到了教育部應該要介入啊現在這個狀況難道是放到地方就給他爛嗎不會的 我想當然我們教育部一定是跟地方來合作的"},{"start":8075.766,"end":8092.326,"text":"我想我們台中市應該不會有這麼樣的一個狀況但是全國來看我們還是擔心有些縣市因為現在過度的市權那統籌分配稅款現在增加但是計劃性補儲款相對應的也有可能因為過度市權導致財政的一些困難"},{"start":8092.807,"end":8122.487,"text":"我想教育部應該秉持著窮不能窮孩子的教育,去了解政策在執行的落實。那另外我想提到的就是,這也是為什麼我們在教育議題上持續的關注,為什麼要一直在幫台中市爭取更多的預算,就是因為我們長期看到這個問題。台中市有一個很重要的教育議題,地方希望17所市立高中職可以改回國立,因為地方養不起了。"},{"start":8123.487,"end":8151.193,"text":"部長 17所市立高中還有高中職改回國立有沒有機會 台中跟委員報告因為當時台中市要升格改回這一個直轄市的時候我知道2017年改成市立的那您知道2017年改為市立以後每年給多少補助款嗎那當然現在以地方來講"},{"start":8152.923,"end":8168.788,"text":"以地方來講這個希望能夠恢復是不是請這個署長來署長2017年您是台中市的教育局長跟著林佳龍市長迎接了比如說像我們的台中高工"},{"start":8170.068,"end":8197.275,"text":"变成所以我们给他们有很好的照顾之后那个12年一贯那委员也在那边给我们很多指导嘛对所以我们在不管技职在学生升学那边的学生93%都是台中市的孩子对因此由台中市按照98年的升格改例的计划其实这样接起来是很有承担的但是很有承担对所以你觉得那个担很重嘛对不对我的意思是说可能还需要一些协助这个我们会跟地方一起来努力"},{"start":8197.295,"end":8215.045,"text":"好今天我們就講到重點請問一下每年給多少的補助款36億好對不對你也有知道嗎非常好人事費就將近34億這些錢到現在有沒有調整過"},{"start":8217.179,"end":8234.975,"text":"36億的部分自那一年開始都沒有調整過三都都一樣了都沒有調整過所以我們要強調的是這就是教育部的補助款八年過去物價翻倍人事成本上升修繕 建築 費用暴增這36億卻連一塊"},{"start":8237.938,"end":8253.051,"text":"都沒有調整你可以看到譬如台中二中為例他有一個空間他們挺努力的那他那個空間我們跟台中市一起合作後來還在增補800萬大概學校的額外的支出我們還是會協助不是只有靠那36億啦"},{"start":8254.652,"end":8276.364,"text":"對 當然我知道但是我現在要講的是這個補助款到現在沒有漲所以現在將地方的教育壓力的困境我希望不要視而不見去年台中市政府還透支9億台中市政府早就警告過地方的裁員撐不住現在學校一個比一個慘就剛剛您提到的台中二中校務基金從原本的四五千萬花到剩100萬"},{"start":8278.706,"end":8303.089,"text":"100萬用到快見底演藝廳蓋了卻好像毛胚屋這就是我們口中所提的教育升級還是教育放生我想地方政府現在根本養不起就像是要馬兒好又要馬兒不吃草地方兼顧教育的品質修善校舍照顧師生權益不給錢不給補助請問馬兒要怎麼跑"},{"start":8303.749,"end":8329.632,"text":"所以教育是一個國家最重要的一個投資地方政府不能因為財政能力而失衡我要求教育部針對物價人士成本逐年調升教育的補助額度如果補助不願意調那請部長乾脆收回去嘛改回國力嘛學生不是孤兒啊學校學生受教權不能受影響部長你怎麼說"},{"start":8332.693,"end":8361.973,"text":"抱歉有些細節跟您補充一下之後部長會做一個政策方向上跟您回應細節上是這樣基本上各縣市包含台中或台北或台南高雄等等我們都有像社區化軍置化等等的計畫這一些都不是那個學校運作的那個單獨的成本而已這些我們都會因應時事做變遷的調整這個在補助比例上我們會加高我們在相關的單價上也會提高那以上在細節上是在這樣子吻合委員的方向"},{"start":8362.373,"end":8382.185,"text":"那政策上當然個案上我們看到你們一定會隨著建築成本去做調試我想這個我們都知道但我要講的就是每年這36億的補助款我光講這36億就好人事成本就34億那從2017年到現在沒有任何增加這一部分的補助款"},{"start":8382.965,"end":8400.406,"text":"你不要說個案不要說其他的案我就說這36億這一筆款項所以我是希望今天能夠為他們發聲台中二中我也很感謝國教署給予關懷那目前我們還是希望能夠再持續的為其發聲我希望說這一個部長你要回應一下嗎"},{"start":8401.321,"end":8418.237,"text":"我想有關我們怎麼樣讓這個地方原來的國立高中變成私立高中確保它的一個運作跟確保它的一個良好的教育品質我想這我們會來努力來跟地方來看怎麼樣有一個更好的機制"},{"start":8419.338,"end":8437.504,"text":"包含這個經會上我們會後再討論這個部分我會再繼續為他們發聲我想剛剛所提到的身心調適假我們照顧的老師近期增訂的這個三日調心假對不起調適假身心調適假利益良善但是我想剛剛已經"},{"start":8439.445,"end":8459.826,"text":"葉委員也提到了7加7加3加3現在開始我們看到三天的身心調試假納入七天試假這樣子呢老師就是會少三天的試假所以我想今天我們一起都為這些老師來請命可不可以把這三天的身心調試假"},{"start":8461.207,"end":8476.155,"text":"獨立出來還給老師7天試駕的一個權利我想代理教師沒有身心調試駕請問部長代理教師可以準用嗎我們當然是樂觀其成樂觀其成什麼時候會有具體的作為"},{"start":8479.38,"end":8506.526,"text":"跟委員報告代理教師三個月以上代理教室事實上他其實是準用行政院的那個月聘僱給價辦法那行政院約聘僱的給價辦法事實上在在10月10號也已經已經把10月10號已經修正了所以代理教師基本上適用身心調適教師沒有任何這一部分我們會在持續追蹤實際的落實到底有什麼樣的問題最後一題早委拜託一下我想"},{"start":8507.566,"end":8524.483,"text":"我要跟您探討的是技術型的教師2014年賴清德總統在一個活動上表示台灣是海洋國家我們都是海洋的公民還要用海洋豐富人民的生活並投入海洋科技的研究讓產業能夠更多項的一個發展"},{"start":8525.183,"end":8546.755,"text":"這不僅點出教育海洋的一個長期佈局的重要性凸顯技職體系中海事類科在培育人才能夠促進海洋產業升級扮演的核心教育部長台灣四周都是海洋總統也說要探索海洋那部長你知道高中職的部分台灣有幾所海事學校嗎"},{"start":8548.559,"end":8562.121,"text":"現在全國有六所海事學校好謝謝你您非常清楚那我就不再贅述是哪六所但是部長您知道航海輪機特殊的海事類科合格教師近幾年有多少嗎"},{"start":8565.245,"end":8585.519,"text":"我直接公佈 近幾年的分別是112年8位113年6位 114年5位合格教師證是逐年減少這些人數以水產的養殖為主所以我們要講的是 部長海事學校就是以培養海事相關人才"},{"start":8586.7,"end":8609.103,"text":"為主當然不是只有水產養殖航海輪機還有航海輪機的人才要從哪裡培養我們要一直想辦法去佈局啊所以許多的私校努力求生存以海事學校為例台灣的海洋國家要探索海洋六所海事學校夠不夠"},{"start":8611.618,"end":8630.933,"text":"我想更重要的是我們在這個海事人才的培養當時去年進來我就事實上也擔心我們海事人才上可能這一個人才不小心會被中斷所以才會說有一個海事學校裡面類似這樣海事人才能夠對接職業譬如說海洋科大類似這樣的"},{"start":8632.034,"end":8657.327,"text":"的這樣一個讓他能夠升學管道能夠暢通這事實上是我們也一直在努力的我講啦反正就是合格證教師這麼少如果教師合格率沒有50%的話會被專案如果連兩年都被專案的話就會被退場此規範對於特殊類科會有師生比偏低的問題所以請問部長針對特殊科目領域的技術型教師有沒有放寬的空間"},{"start":8658.905,"end":8677.066,"text":"您覺得呢這謝謝委員的一個提醒我想我們內部來我們再來看怎麼樣因為產業人才一定要讓他能夠永續發展因為我們已經看到這樣困境了嘛幫他們發聲也是為我們台灣這些技術型人才甚至是未來培養"},{"start":8678.127,"end":8690.735,"text":"這些學生最重要的一個立即點因為我們確實需要這個人才然後我們怎麼樣從這個產業來引用人才讓他能夠來指導所以我希望能夠放寬我們會後討論謝謝謝謝羅廷維委員請警政官員回座好現在請萬美玲委員進行質詢"},{"start":8714.462,"end":8735.423,"text":"好 謝謝召委 我們有請部長 國教署署長 記者司司長還有我們哪一位去承接葉秉成次長的業務的次長 以上好 請部長跟相關的次長跟署長 司長就座 謝謝沒關係 就大家也坐了很久嘛 上來辛苦站一下 謝謝委員好"},{"start":8738.239,"end":8763.598,"text":"首先我想先谢谢赵伟赵伟今天给予大家非常充分的时间来讨论我们大家最关心的各项教育议题其实我今天也准备了很多的资料但第一题我可能要先来呼应一下我们刚刚罗廷伟委员所提到的我们在过去升格以后我们的国立高中改立这件事情其实在地方上那时候有很多的讨论"},{"start":8764.398,"end":8783.52,"text":"同意的意见不同意的意见都非常的多那刚才我当然特别提醒罗廷伟委员在台中市那时候在圣歌改历的时候这个我们署长是当时教育局的局长那当时好像也颇支持的这样子但我觉得支持是一回事我们走到现在为止我觉得刚才罗廷伟委员讲得很好也就是说现在"},{"start":8784.661,"end":8799.345,"text":"我們在地方上各項的補助都減少那如果說今天國立高中變市立高中那我們還要去負擔市立高中因為得不到中央的關愛那真的不如把孩子送回來大家庭好了那部長怎麼看你會繼續愛他們嗎我講我們當然"},{"start":8806.451,"end":8835.458,"text":"各種計劃型怎麼樣去協助地方這個勢力高中子的一個發展這當然教育部責無旁貸責無旁貸因為畢竟孩子當年是自己的現在雖然多一個縣市政府的父母在疼愛但別忘了那是自己的孩子否則我請教一下台南現在那個學校國立有改為勢力了嗎有還是沒有目前還是在目前沒有嘛從以前到現在他都不願意嘛不願意的原因是什麼"},{"start":8837.173,"end":8859.925,"text":"四个字财政负担就这样子对不对那所以呢台南他到现在都不愿意都还在考量那如果说其他升格的各个职场是刚刚其实署长都漏掉了讲我们桃园了那我觉得我们大家现在就是尽量给我们的这些过去的国立高中现在的市立高中要给他很多的支持但我希望那个大家长您这个部长别忘了还有他们好"},{"start":8860.485,"end":8885.983,"text":"接下來我們來討論這一次我們看到國教署整個的預算少了137億我們看到115年教育部主管的預算2659億如果再加上我們這個一般性補助款813億總共是3472億比較去年少了79億其中我看到國教署就少了137.5億來"},{"start":8888.925,"end":8912.046,"text":"这个署长你的预算高达了137.5亿的减廉原因是什么有三个第一个是2到6岁第二个是有些已经完工的像当时的青浦地区竹北地区那个8亿另外有一些是因为在财政的这个负担上有一些调节第三个部分再说清楚"},{"start":8913.08,"end":8940.87,"text":"譬如說在1.65的這個原額上那麼在103年上這個政策當時已經過了11年已經達成了那這個可能可以減編第二個 像輔導人這個當時的教師數在正諸於11年後的教師數它並且已經提高了之後呢已經不太需要那一筆錢那筆錢應該是原來地方政府早就有編的時間已經走了11年第二個是輔導人力的部分"},{"start":8941.75,"end":8962.043,"text":"地方已經增加了4165億那相關的這個資源做一點調節以上三點做補充好 署長本席比較能接受的是你說如果我們過去有編列是因為現在工程完工了都竣工了那我們當然就不需要再編那就會看到簡列的數字在這上面但您剛剛所說的我們看到自己教育部簡報在第六頁的部分"},{"start":8963.444,"end":8991.054,"text":"这也是刚才署长提到的什么补助国小教室运河编制啊每班1.65我们已经完成了不需要了然后是什么辅导人力我们不需要了什么这些不需要到底是谁告诉你已经不需要了什么叫做不需要他不叫做不需要那叫做什么他是在那个时间已经完成了之后他是因为地方裁员也增加了所以地方裁员增加那请教一下署长地方裁员你怎么知道地方裁员增加了"},{"start":8991.594,"end":9016.49,"text":"委員 地方財源增加這4160億以相關的縣市地方財源增加在哪裡你告訴我怎麼增加來你告訴我對 向台北市增加400多億桃園市增加295億好 我們增加這290幾億我就以本席的桃園市來講難道全部增加的就是指定在教育預算上嗎那我必須要講說今天可能又要這樣雞生蛋蛋生雞來講回來"},{"start":9017.611,"end":9043.777,"text":"我覺得中央跟地方就像本席昨天在總諮詢一樣我們跟中央中央政府地方政府不要對抗要合作對不對一個財化法它有基本的利益在就像之前賴靜澤在當縣市市長的時候他也是說財化法要重新修法是不是那重新修法為什麼難道就是因為我們增加了所以今天要砍什麼全部拿來砍教育的預算這樣有對嗎來部長我請教你一下"},{"start":9047.406,"end":9076.265,"text":"剛才以上我們講到的我們剛才以上講到的不管是我們的高中以下學校的用電剛剛輔導人力什麼的這些部長你應該知道這些每一個都是很重要嘛對不對好那你今天要講說你們這個才化法每個縣市都有增加預算增加的預算我們地方政府也會涉算涉算以後就會想說我還要怎麼樣幫桃園市做更多重大建設什麼地方還需要錢結果呢你反而把教育的預算都給空掉了"},{"start":9076.885,"end":9085.347,"text":"欸 部長啊 你們有沒有捍衛自己的教育預算啊今天是行政院要你撿就撿嘛來 部長我請教你一個問題你現在坐的椅子一張多少錢對不起我這是立法院的一個我說你在教育部 你的座椅一張多少錢我沒有 我進來就是原用舊的我沒有買過沒有買過 想不想換一張五萬塊的不用 不用 為什麼"},{"start":9104.298,"end":9120.239,"text":"因為我覺得只要有椅子可以坐我主要是來做事情跟委員一樣希望一起為台灣的教育打拚我不是來來做不是來享受的嘛很棒我就欣賞你這一些話要告訴國防部啊"},{"start":9123.119,"end":9151.903,"text":"買個椅子什麼一張五萬塊喝瓶水什麼水不能喝一瓶水一百二當然他有一些他的說法在但我今天要講的是教育的預算永遠沒有浪費的問題教育的預算我們要投入大量去栽培我們的孩子去支持我們的老師但你今天啊讓他三你就三讓他減你就減這樣怎麼會對啊你要支持的去捍衛你自己的預算啊不是今天行政院告訴你說要塞哪裡你就同意塞哪裡這本性不能接受啊好不好"},{"start":9152.603,"end":9177.46,"text":"然後再來呢我想我跟委員一樣我們就是中央跟地方一定都要來合作你要捍衛預算啦如果呢你都不知道要去捍衛預算喔到六歲原來編688億我們中央還是一樣部長啊部長如果我們這樣提醒你說你要適當的適時的堅定的去捍衛你自己的預算不是只有到委員會來才來跟我們這邊這樣說那樣說你看我們所有委員會的委員"},{"start":9182.403,"end":9201.791,"text":"不分這個黨派我們都很支持你的預算對不對但是你今天少了這個部分你自己本來就應該要去爭取回來啦再來我們來看到我們這些計畫現在改成地方負擔加總起來總共少的是149.31億對嗎 國教署是的 那包含有新增的部分我們往下看"},{"start":9210.472,"end":9230.629,"text":"刚才的资料是国教署这边来教育部这边来这边也是你这边写上来这个我们简列是146.28亿为什么一样都是你送上来的资料为什么一样都是你送上来的资料却有149.3亿跟146.28亿的差别那这个相差3亿多这个数字为什么"},{"start":9232.606,"end":9247.614,"text":"為什麼跟委員報告就是現在委員投影片放的這13他是只有對地方政府的補助款我講的就是對地方政府的補助啊前面上一張的話是整個國教署的預算是整個國教署補助和非補助都有"},{"start":9248.735,"end":9275.868,"text":"那我們看到第一個我覺得這個數字上面我覺得也不夠明確第二個呢所以你所有的簡列你看通通都是簡列我們地方嘛全部都是簡列地方嘛我覺得這是不對的你今天呢我們的孩子我們的老師你不要再去分這些什麼中央地方你能夠做的你就應該都要做所以我還是回去到那句老話其實你該要爭取的預算是應該要把它爭取下來的好接下來呢我就要再問到了你看"},{"start":9276.448,"end":9293.738,"text":"我們現在我不知道這個部長因為昨天我在這個總諮詢的時候也有提到這個財化法我們現在大概有一千七百多億吧如果這個數字我沒有記錯的話大概有一千多億那這個預算其實就是改成那個計劃型的一個補助"},{"start":9295.879,"end":9318.451,"text":"大概有1764億喔這個一半型補助我們變成計劃型補助其中啊這1764億裡面國教署就佔了813億國教署是佔掉一半了也就是說未來啊未來我們縣市啊如果有需要國教署來幫忙的時候我們都改成計劃型都改成要申請那我請教一下部長審核是誰在審核誰審核審核的機制是什麼給予的標準是什麼"},{"start":9326.169,"end":9344.603,"text":"各位報告剛剛那個計劃型他原來就存在著甚至減掉了一些嘛所以計劃型原來怎麼審我們也那樣審而且要簡化有些會簡化更從地方的角度看包含部長剛剛最近也在說希望同一份資料各個單位可以用不要每個單位都跟學校"},{"start":9344.983,"end":9370.365,"text":"跟縣市要資料減量嘛我希望你這個810多億的補助款你給我一個你到底所謂的簡化還有審核的標準是什麼第一個第二個能不能做到每年年底的時候把今年一整年你到底是怎麼給的那給我一張表可以嗎哪個縣市哪幾個學校什麼樣的項目得到你們一般型的補助都可以做到嗎"},{"start":9372.908,"end":9396.282,"text":"一般性補助跟教育的計劃性補助這兩項一般性補助比較我們會採取涉算式的計劃大概像委員講的會有審查委員希望我們年底前給委員做這樣一個中整的說明報告我們會來進行 謝謝我跟你講署長這是為你好不要大家都覺得你有時候大小眼要不然人家覺得你有藍綠之分要不然人家覺得有黑箱你不會嘛 對不對你絕對不會嘛"},{"start":9399.016,"end":9406.071,"text":"所以我給你一個機會啊就公開給大家看一下好不好接下來呢我們再來談一下新五專計劃"},{"start":9410.494,"end":9429.79,"text":"這個新武專計劃我們114年開始試辦3加2這個是本信片技術室葉秉成次長提出來的那在當時在委員會不管是提出來這個政策的時候跟審查預算的時候我們經過非常充分的討論那這個計劃最後共有38所學校174班來申辦所以部長這個計劃好不好你覺得好還是不好給我一個字就好基本上我覺得我肯定他的價值"},{"start":9438.277,"end":9464.829,"text":"所以是好的對不對我也覺得計畫不錯所以我們才會支持運算但是我們看到現在的招生情況我舉一個最指標的學校台科大自動化工程專班那它跟我們都是很指標性的這個像這個台北市大安高工新竹高工台中高工這三所學校合作那原本我們預計要招收60人結果只招收到21人其中新竹高工還是掛零"},{"start":9466.024,"end":9472.841,"text":"成效不好啊本席也下去了解跟问过其实成效是不好的啊所以呢为什么成效这么差部长说明一下好吗"},{"start":9476.192,"end":9501.709,"text":"委員我補充說明因為這樣的一個三加二的專班主要是提供技高學生有一個多元的選擇背景不用再說了我們去年討論很多了就以台科大這個案子來講新竹高工的這一個班並沒有辦法人數來參加主要是新竹高工的學生大部分都是要升學所以他們對於先拿一個二專"},{"start":9502.649,"end":9523.545,"text":"的文憑學生是有疑慮的所以新竹高工的學生就不參加了市長謝謝部長您剛有聽到市長的專業說明了這個其實也是我們在審查預算的時候我們提出來的擔憂結果它就是發生了它就發生了我們如此教育文化委員會如此支持你們的預算但你們交出來的成果我真的覺得"},{"start":9525.286,"end":9550.575,"text":"非常让大家看不下去那再来呢我想另外在招收学生不足的情况之下即便我们这个计划有补助给该校但是呢现在我了解到有很多要衔接的科大都担心他可能不付成本甚至会赔本搞不好就不想再做了请问一下如果在他招收不到学生的时候他可以擅自终止这样的计划吗"},{"start":9553.351,"end":9565.367,"text":"因為假如學生已經成家 不可以這個我們會來跟學校做說明啦對 這個是不可以的那如果不可以 那課大又賠本那個市長你要怎麼處理我們來協助學校怎麼協助"},{"start":9568.331,"end":9597.511,"text":"我们有一些经费例如说我们的高教生跟计划所以你还拿别的计划来协助这个计划那个教学的开课的成本本来在相关计划都可以支那我们医师没有编那个师长当然可以指引但是当初这次教育部提了一个新的计划你就应该在这个新的计划那委员会同意你的预算当中去把它做好来但显然没有还用别的计划来指引那当时我们所提醒你的一些问题现在都产生了所以我想"},{"start":9598.451,"end":9619.27,"text":"叶秉成次长提出这样的一个计划现在当然他不在这里了这个计划看起来出很多问题了谁能够处理我希望这个接的新的次长还是司长们我就要把这个计划重新再审视一次好不好那利益良善但是如果只是浪费公帑那没有什么效果这我不能接受最后一点非常简单这稍微一分钟就好"},{"start":9620.231,"end":9631.861,"text":"我們當時預算通過的時候也有在講我們要求要比照像以前12年國教一樣12年國教輔導團要去宣導大家才會知道但是呢看起來我們並沒有認真做到這件事"},{"start":9635.815,"end":9657.743,"text":"跟委員報告您在上個會期就有提醒我們這一個所以我們從一四的一月在做核心講師的培訓針對新五專的這一個核心講師也都培訓完了那在實體的宣導部分高中以下的階段在國中畢業生的適性入學宣導手冊也把它加進來了"},{"start":9658.763,"end":9679.763,"text":"然后在优质化的一个方案里面去做计值宣导也把3加2加进来那我们的计专阶段我跟你说啦你讲的那些啊我觉得不要说什么我印了个什么手册然后在学校里面讲一下就叫做你去看一下12年国教上路的时候全国在宣导那个强度是什么辅导团的强度是什么"},{"start":9680.163,"end":9701.617,"text":"我們輔導團的成員又是哪一些人怎麼去做的去學一下去比照一下新的政策出來不是當初代理的人今天不在了以後你就不要做了要不然就是敷衍一下那沒意思啦當初我們就講過了你一下5加0 2加3 1加4亂七八糟一大堆大家不傻傻就要去宣導你沒有認真做我覺得這樣子的政策啊真的很可惜喔"},{"start":9702.037,"end":9729.803,"text":"所以呢會後我希望你提供給我們詳細的資料那如果還沒有做的我們趕快把它補上來否則我覺得我們今年的預算上面我們可能不會支持了好 我補充一下今年在計專端會辦理62場次所以委員這個我們都已經有規劃市長因為我今天給你調資料你資料也是亂七八糟你們的人也是都不清不楚所以呢我拜託會後啊請你到我辦公室把它說明清楚因為本席覺得這個非常非常的重要可以嗎可以好 謝謝"},{"start":9731.756,"end":9746.621,"text":"謝謝委員提醒也感謝委員指導謝謝好謝謝萬美林委員行政官員請回座我們現在休息10分鐘等一下應該在11點30分之前大家入座謝謝"},{"start":9778.301,"end":9790.586,"text":"嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":9807.718,"end":9834.323,"text":"這裏有一個很重要的地方,就是這裏。"},{"start":9836.797,"end":9845.281,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9879.375,"end":9894.124,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9904.913,"end":9915.498,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9932.244,"end":9940.828,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9941.61,"end":9941.67,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9976.464,"end":9976.704,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":9980.894,"end":9987.338,"text":"你現在這個要拿下來,你知道嗎?我知道請幫你在哪裏?請幫你在那邊,我們等一下會放過來跟我那隻一樣請幫你看一下"},{"start":10010.27,"end":10010.652,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":10358.186,"end":10373.492,"text":"好我們繼續質詢現在請郭育晴委員質詢好謝謝主席有請教育部部長有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":10381.909,"end":10397.819,"text":"好 部長早安我先就剛剛其實這個萬美玲委員她提到要跟這個國防部講一下那個水的問題那天其實在審特別預算的時候其實我人也在場但是這個所謂的常備用水軍備用的儲水"},{"start":10398.399,"end":10413.329,"text":"跟一般的礦泉水看似都是水但是其實這個魔鬼藏在細節當中那我先呼應一下這個其實也不用跟國防部說啦因為國防部講的這個戰備的用水一瓶120元其實是普遍"},{"start":10413.929,"end":10435.135,"text":"在軍事專家眼中它的市價就是這麼高為什麼因為五年以上的保存水它的保存期限比較久瓶身加厚為了要降低透氧率那麼生產的成本是比較高的同時這個水還經過三次的RO逆滲透瓶口在封蓋之前還有臭氧殺菌整瓶水要無菌的狀態"},{"start":10436.215,"end":10456.256,"text":"所以這個是必須要在國防部在這次的特別預算當中有特別編列這樣子的預算這也是因應我們的國防的需求軍事戰備用水是的確需要的在這裡希望有解決這個萬美玲委員她的一些疑問好那部長"},{"start":10457.117,"end":10484.839,"text":"我想這個校事會議您還記得嗎5月28號的時候其實我是委員會當中我是第一個提出來的委員那當初其實我們因為校事會議引起在學校端很多老師他們的寒蟬效應那親師的溝通出現了一些裂痕那這是我們當時提醒教育部要注意的那麼在8月7號的時候我在向教育部再次提及了五大的一個建議那我想這個五大的建議包含"},{"start":10486.325,"end":10511.857,"text":"建立這個分級的一個處理提高校事會議的啟動的一個門檻再來第二點就是要保障老師知情跟答辯權再來第三要健全調查委員的選任跟培訓的制度這個是人才庫的部分再來第四就是我們要有第三方的公正公平的審議的單位再來第五點就是我們要如何建立這些曾經被校事會議調查過後"},{"start":10513.618,"end":10537.244,"text":"但是其實也查無實證或者是最後其實以所謂的像法官一樣不起訴這樣子老師他怎麼樣來恢復他的名譽在心理層面跟他的整個所有的法律的支持我們要怎麼樣來做實質上的一個幫助這些老師們我想我提出的這五大要點我們也很高興就是在9月16號的時候我們的鄭部長您也承諾了"},{"start":10537.904,"end":10564.319,"text":"那在年底之前我們的消失會議有很大的改善的一個空間那調整的一個空間那同時您也說要刪除這個現行匿名檢舉單數的一個規定那我想這個部分來講其實對於消失會議來講我們是有往正向的方向去走但是呢我們其實最重要的就是希望能夠減少更多的衝突那麼減少爛訴那我想這個初步的溝通"},{"start":10564.599,"end":10580.954,"text":"我們也得到了一些就是正面的回應同時也符合教師們的期待這是我們最希望能夠看到的但是在大部分的細節的部分我想可能還不是那麼的清楚跟明瞭在這裡我想要再次的請教部長"},{"start":10582.435,"end":10607.177,"text":"就是在事前我們剛剛有講要分流不要那麼急就把這被投訴的老師直接送到所謂的這個校事會議當中就是那個門檻要稍微提高但是在這個進入校事會議之前我們的行政務團親師的溝通那不管這個結果成功與否那後續應該怎麼處置有沒有一個所謂的一致性的SOP的一個處置的方式"},{"start":10607.637,"end":10628.451,"text":"或者是還是依照各校他自己的一個方式處理但是如果這個結果比方說家長不夠滿意他甚至要再回頭重複的申訴這有可能也會造成所謂的行政耗損這樣子的一個狀況之下我們可不可以在這個部分也提出改善的方針"},{"start":10629.071,"end":10644.003,"text":"那第二點我想問的就是當承辦人員他沒有受訓或承辦過所謂的重大情節的案件他影響到了所謂的這個調查的一個結果那這個部分我們有沒有追責的一個機制那第三點我想要問的就是"},{"start":10645.086,"end":10673.653,"text":"目前最大的一個問題是沒有一個先篩選的制度任何的檢舉都可能會進到所謂的校事會議那基於學校本身他是當事人他又有可能成為所謂的調查的單位我們真的不免擔心球員兼裁判在整個所有的所謂的部長你可能會說會有所謂的複查的一個機制但是這個複查的機制如果還是有體系內的人在審"},{"start":10674.713,"end":10688.843,"text":"那麼難免在有權力結構的校園當中那這個權力結構的環境裡頭副省的制度本身就缺乏被信任的空間這第三點我們怎麼樣來克服請教一下部長"},{"start":10689.52,"end":10707.925,"text":"那謝謝委員的一個提醒確實委員當時的一個對校事會議的一個制度上的一些期待我們確實也在分區座談裡面委員對問題的掌握是非常的精準的所以我們大概整個陳委員所提我們怎麼樣去分流行政務談其實溝通這些的"},{"start":10710.586,"end":10730.896,"text":"我们在未来的新的办法我们会有一些包含例证的一些提示让第一线上的一些学校在整个在运作里边能够有一些实例的一些参考跟有一些依循的这我们都会来做包含刚才委员提到说当一个老师被误告然后到最后"},{"start":10731.616,"end":10751.994,"text":"甚至我們講說法院或者校會判他這個不成立也結案了那對於老師所遭受的權益上的一些受損我們只會去回憶 回復他這個我們大概都是朝這個方向因為自從有效式會議以來我們知道其實在所有的769件當中目前只有成案的只有3.38%是"},{"start":10754.036,"end":10779.017,"text":"所以相對的來講就是這些其實教師會議都是成本喔都是費用喔所以我們這個部分包含老師我們就第一個要杜絕這個爛數第二個就是對老師遭受到不名譽的一個指控然後沒有成立的時候所造成的一些甚至在我們要讓他有回復名譽的機制啦我們都有一套的機制希望能夠回復到他原來的一個"},{"start":10779.537,"end":10804.873,"text":"如果有家長對於這個調查的結果是不滿意的他如果要重複的這個再申請避免重複的申訴這個部分我們可以避免嗎因為我們如果沒有新的事證我們基本上就列入不受理也有這樣的一個機制出來好那我想就是不管是在行政務談親師溝通我們要有一個一致性的SOP因為"},{"start":10805.353,"end":10828.016,"text":"包含我們法院也有一些實際的一個判例對學生 誣告老師法院也做成實際的這個裁判的一個動作我們希望累積有更多的一個案例讓學校在裡面對學生的宣導或者對家長或者學校裡面的運作有一些更多的一些彼此在一個民主法治的社會裡面有一個更適宜的一個"},{"start":10828.536,"end":10856.005,"text":"我想其实我们都不希望造成学校行政人力或者是教师他们在教学在被调查的期间这一两个月当中他们可能一方面要准备教材二方面要应付所谓的校师会议这样子的调查造成他们其实身心俱疲那我想这影响到的还是学生们受教的一个权益我们还是让教学回归专业让学校能够变成更良善的一个我完全认同委员的一个"},{"start":10856.505,"end":10877.404,"text":"好 那我們往這個方向走那我想校事會議有很多細膩的部分很多細節的部分我們可能再找時間再來好好的溝通跟討論好 那第二個我想就是在昨天其實我們也跟培育委員特別有開了一個座談會那也就是相對的來講我們非常關心所謂的這個特教生他們的一些權益的一些問題"},{"start":10878.385,"end":10902.516,"text":"那我想給特教生一個比較完整的運動學習的一個環境那教育部跟國教署其實近幾年來也都非常非常的重視也投入了相當的的心力那展現了我們的政府對所謂的生長生的這個權益的一個正視的一個問題但是隨著體育署升格為運動部那接著下來我們過去體育署所負責的不管是他的課程的設計"},{"start":10903.977,"end":10923.317,"text":"師資的培育或者是特教生的支持現在有沒有明確承接的單位如果沒有明確承接的單位我們也很擔心在校園當中尤其是高中以下他們是有體育課的但是他們的權益到底是誰來接手會不會因為我們的組織改革了"},{"start":10923.877,"end":10940.602,"text":"我們可能這些所謂的特教生他們的適應體育的這個部分變成被邊緣化了反而他們的權益被忽視了這個部分我們是不是也請教育部這邊來回應一下但是我也很關心我們對特殊教育這一個對象的學生在整個視訊體育事實上運動部"},{"start":10943.263,"end":10960.864,"text":"有視訊體育師我想這一個對銜接這一個我們這個特殊教育的學生我們在當然未來是一定是跨部會合作的那另外也跟委員報告對特殊教育的一個學生我們本來就有一個IEP的這樣的一個個別化的"},{"start":10961.67,"end":10977.541,"text":"的一個教學計畫那個別化的教學計畫除了有特教老師有學科老師他還有特別為這一個學生所這一個個別化的一個教育的這個體育的這樣一個訓練但是因為現在我們知道這個適應體育它有分課程內"},{"start":10978.542,"end":11001.116,"text":"跟課程外這兩塊的業務是被切割的那這兩塊的業務現在到底是由哪一個單位接手課程內的部分特教學生一定當然是教育部要優先但屬於教育專業資訊這一個部分我們當然也跟運動部會合作但是教育部對銜接這個接觸每一個特殊教育的學生我想我們則無旁貸"},{"start":11001.876,"end":11021.517,"text":"這個是12年以下也就是高中以下我們有體育班我們有體育課那麼他們還是原班在就是在原班上課對於所謂的這個特教生來說但是如果到了大專院校的階段我們怎麼樣來給他們具體的課程跟教學的支持這個部分有考慮嗎因為到了大專以上喔"},{"start":11022.999,"end":11038.271,"text":"因為剛剛講的其實都是我們的12年國教以下對不對那大專以上的怎麼辦跟委員說明我們的特教中層計畫裡面的這些措施在運動部成立之後他會接手體育署原本在做的工作有具體的時程嗎"},{"start":11039.272,"end":11061.769,"text":"有有有 他們委託了台師大有成立的這個適應體育的那個所以有具體的時程跟方式是的那事後可以提供給我們辦公室嗎因為其實我們最擔心的就是我們的適應體育其實應該要放在非常重要的位置上不管我們的這個運動部當然運動部成立是一個好事啦是大家都很期待的這代表我們其實是很關心全民運動"},{"start":11062.87,"end":11079.537,"text":"那但是我們也擔心就是所謂的這些特效生他們的一些權益被受損了那這個部分事後再提供給我們辦公室可以嗎好那第三個問題其實今天不要讓這個舒冰主席站那麼久我快速我一點點就好了那"},{"start":11080.457,"end":11104.513,"text":"去年其實我的辦公室一直在關心所謂特教助理員他們的薪資待遇我想教育部也聽取了我們的意見在特教教師助理員的部分我們可以來調整他們加薪的條件同時教育部也承諾可以回溯到113年的8月1號開始生效這一點其實我們非常的感恩也非常的開心教育部真的聽到了"},{"start":11104.853,"end":11129.431,"text":"但是還是有特教助理員向我們來反映學生助理員已經獲得了全國統一的加薪但是教師助理員的待遇因為現在地方政府他們的財政狀況不一政策上也有差異所以沒有辦法一致就有這樣子的特教助理員他告訴我說雖然名為加薪但是我的時數被減了"},{"start":11131.212,"end":11147.23,"text":"我的時數被減了我的工資相對的來講被變相的減薪這個部分我們怎麼樣來建立讓他們整個所有的這些助理員他們的保障能夠跟全國一致這個部分我們有沒有解方"},{"start":11148.817,"end":11177.542,"text":"我想這一個我們當然希望說所有的這一個教師助理員學生助理員的薪水能夠受到一定的一個保障那如果我們現在會後我們來蒐集各縣市在實際的情況怎麼樣然後我們來看怎麼樣來協助讓這一個這些的助理員的一個薪資所以快速的盤點什麼什麼時間點之前可以盤點結束然後由統一的一個月以內我們跟一個月"},{"start":11178.802,"end":11185.044,"text":"好 謝謝部長的回應好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席謝謝謝謝育勤委員的質詢那官員請回座好 現在請謝榮介委員進行質詢"},{"start":11211.413,"end":11223.904,"text":"主席 我請保證好 請鄭部長委員好保證 你好請教 你離開高一多久"},{"start":11226.448,"end":11229.009,"text":"1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年1995年"},{"start":11253.757,"end":11258.401,"text":"有時候可以補充他對身體的發電是有幫助的你覺得這個政策最好是怎麼停"},{"start":11262.574,"end":11275.224,"text":"這也是我在認為 向委員報告 我覺得很可笑的因為在這個政策 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛 都要保衛"},{"start":11292.056,"end":11304.046,"text":"今天很多人都在探討說老師三燈兩火就去幫他倒數甚至從五年到學校的時候是要老師去幫五年來給孩子吃老師為什麼這個政策聽起來他的拍手才好心聲真無奈一分錢一分錢"},{"start":11316.502,"end":11338.589,"text":"我跟政府簽約的時候 我的退休金是多少 結果我們的政府呢 退休金從台幣到2.26億他說現在沒有人來照吃照吃我小孩 我如果要用心跟你嫁 我想你六十幾年來做教育的時候 絕對不是這個環境我在讀書的時候 我老師說什麼 早自修你等我多久就好了 土砂我替你掃"},{"start":11340.134,"end":11366.258,"text":"老師退學前去掃地,為什麼他覺得有解答,我知不知這孩子有解答我退休,我有保障啊結果一個退休政策,你把人家的退休金貸還不擋不起,你還叫他就要顧孩子顧到安裝很雜症,算了老師起來,今天如果顧一個更雜症的,雜症裡面,一個不爽快的就把你倒數倒數,你就又搬了"},{"start":11367.205,"end":11393.939,"text":"這已經造成惡性的循環了 沒錯嗎我相信你對高雄到台北你感受應該比其他人更深了但你今天一做這個 沒錯這位要說一件事情要比較有價值的 說真的替這些人講話冬季時光抬太陽金的時候 我們的總額算是一條七千多億因為那時候想說我們經濟會賣掉所以這位老師 您比較委屈的"},{"start":11397.885,"end":11408.892,"text":"結果經過高檔後,我們的中無省、我們的經濟發展,我們現在變三條了你應該在這個議題要多關心一下,本席今天跟你講的要表你發表意見,談這件事情都可能會打翻,也沒意思AI這個東西,台灣已經陷入一個壯強期,我說的確"},{"start":11421.946,"end":11428.384,"text":"一個基本法找不出來全世界AI的三頁我們台灣是明的真貓"},{"start":11430.393,"end":11457.637,"text":"你知道嗎?我們的産業的出口也好,産業的製造也好結果很多人說AI去衝到什麼人的生意,衝到什麼人的頭腦,衝到什麼人的工作這就是你教育的問題包括你中心教育也好,包括這個AI一定要很重視為什麼我們台灣在使用AI的比率落在20名外為什麼我們的産業的製造是在第一名、第二名"},{"start":11458.905,"end":11478.151,"text":"我們會落差這麼大,沒有對教育開示,包括孩子要選一個,不要說選了,對這個平台的立場,進入平台去找找他的地位,跟用AI化作他的工具,提升個人人類的地位,這是一個一念之差而已。"},{"start":11479.468,"end":11482.391,"text":"你用一個窮逢的心理 AI 出來歐巴桑會沒頭腦 世王會沒頭腦 蓬佩奈沒頭腦大家都沒頭腦啊 老師也沒頭腦啊不是這樣啊"},{"start":11490.174,"end":11504.267,"text":"所以對教育要勇敢打出第一步 增加大幅度的增加對AI的認知 把AI當作是工具 提升我們人類的地位 將來我們能夠跟這個機器人電腦繼續競爭 這樣不就對了為什麼社會變成大家看 講到AI全都不明了 一個正面一個負面 兩極化這麼嚴重為什麼"},{"start":11517.546,"end":11534.532,"text":"基本上我認同委員所講的說法就是說這個科技的快速發展不是因為這樣我們就沒辦法了我們要怎麼利用這個科技讓我們的大陸但是你現在高又不足了 特勤節我們變成這樣了有啦 我們現在也向委員報告我們在這個AI專門維修開始上包括老師 我也跟他們說我們一天賠用幾千的這樣是不夠的"},{"start":11542.154,"end":11554.593,"text":"老師的真能我們應該要恕以忘記要交換這個速度就是說我們現在要做目標跟委員所想的事是相同的陰性逐一跟我說你的大娘就是所有教育教育的人"},{"start":11556.533,"end":11572.554,"text":"你身體力行之後所有的人就用你做計標了這是長期不是叫你要做老但是你長期這個風氣起來之後會普遍包括總統 行政委員包括所有台北省下的人"},{"start":11574.282,"end":11592.555,"text":"應該把對著AI溫馨的兇器的心理徹徹拜託這樣我們很快就跟我們的三峽一樣在使用AI跟隱密AI這個領域就對了我們很快就跳到世界的三面來因為我們有很好的條件嘛但是你們的採購很多對國防、交通、教育的採購我告訴你都比人多很多啦這你來補要檢討一下我請教你齁,這個災危發"},{"start":11603.991,"end":11614.578,"text":"你們對著台南市,國立的國中節,有多久你知道,我們台南市?沒關係,應該有22天啦,22天,這麼隆重耶,現在在你的手裡,一天有算是多少?"},{"start":11626.99,"end":11637.142,"text":"一間學校大概1億到3億看他是公科學校的話就比較高公科學校比較高一間學校的預算1億到3億公科學校會接近3億來"},{"start":11640.101,"end":11653.473,"text":"財委法已經通過了 行政委員會準備要跟地方政府來發計劃就是說這錢要怎麼分你敢有幾位把這22天的國立國中節 撒在台南市政府有沒有不可能沒有 你們內部都跟我說了"},{"start":11661.014,"end":11678.957,"text":"跟我們報告是有的 一直在進行 那最近也會進行台南官司合併的時候是專台灣災情最困難的22名到23名兩個爛兄爛弟合併 那時候我就坐在那裡等啊所以老總統身為第一任的台南市長的時候就批評啊 一間就不給你接啊那時候我也支持 因為接不到台南市要倒啊你現在都要等到完啊不然這個災害發台南市會說不公平啊等下來 你經費要補助多少"},{"start":11691.823,"end":11721.142,"text":"你告訴我 他沒有什麼可能 你說要賺了 你一定要給我們算好嘛所以接近40億左右沒有啦 左右是左到是左還是右啊40億往上往上 是你講的很不合理 錢的事情 親兄弟明算帳因為他有一些細算 除了人事經費 還要算到一些補助案那補助案要精算 40億是你要補助完就對了補助台南市 所以看財化法完全不關的說得好喔"},{"start":11722.486,"end":11735.932,"text":"像現在我們財務的法 這裡要怎麼訂的錢這個40億是都沒有管的 不知道來的喔 就是像前面的三個縣市一樣那個是按照98年的要求 人事費的部分"},{"start":11742.079,"end":11752.769,"text":"到時候都一樣 因為這三個縣市收的時候新北市是92%所以差4%我們給他5500萬 類似這樣 台中市是96%感謝 本席幫你說明一下 台南市冬季時期不應該合併的情形下用文化合併"},{"start":11767.529,"end":11784.217,"text":"是在兩個官司 台南市跟台南官司 災情最困難的時候來合併結果這大中間 民進黨公眾北親南 已經接近九年了對台南的災情沒有幫忙 現在一個財委發通過後說 喔這樣對台南市沒公平"},{"start":11786.823,"end":11811.522,"text":"既是一百六十三億我們有什麼不公平 好啦 你如果說這個學校要賺回來給台南市接收啦 編輯啦本身希望你做一個精神 你一國未來 因為這是明年的事情一國未來 我希望你跟這裡所有國立的高中一個學校的無聲明聲 跟以保台南市療養災情的幾位上來本身的辦公室 這樣我答應嗎好 好 感謝你"},{"start":11822.363,"end":11827.307,"text":"感謝龍蓋仙的質詢那我們謝謝部長現在請陳秀寶召委來進行質詢謝謝召委請部長"},{"start":11847.739,"end":11853.236,"text":"沒關係部長你喝一下口喝一下水喝水喝水一下好有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":11855.644,"end":11882.52,"text":"部長好部長這邊想請教針對您在10月7號在議院會回答王逸川委員的詢答的時候部長您是認同應該來禁止使用抖音本期在這邊想要再進一步的請教部長還有我們教育部未來是不是會禁止的部分除了禁止抖音還是其他相關的中國應用的程式都會禁止包含最近很夯的小紅書"},{"start":11884.322,"end":11908.659,"text":"因為其實這個家除了我們教育界非常的關心家長也非常的關心還有像人本教育基金會他甚至倡議為了面對小紅書及抖音無孔不入而且為了避免孩子成為AI的工具應該要倡議抗網保孩他的執行長表示說我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變"},{"start":11909.5,"end":11922.119,"text":"所以看網保還是公衛的議題需要全社會的共同參與需要全民的投入那我這邊想請教部長我們教育部這邊會有什麼具體的做法"},{"start":11924.277,"end":11951.688,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們這個青少年的一個發展有一個更好的一個發展的一個環境確實我們行政院本來就有頒布這個公布這個各機關對危害國家直通性安全產品的限制使用原則那麼在公務設備中小學不僅是大專校院公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用像這個大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務所以我們臺灣學術網路"},{"start":11953.956,"end":11966.307,"text":"它內的基本上就是在支持師生教學跟學習所以有關抖音跟小文書這些的內容跟學習相關性比較低的我們也會影響到"},{"start":11968.724,"end":11994.009,"text":"兒少的身心發展這些我們事實上在這個他那裡都已經把它排除掉部長您這邊的說法我認可就是我們自己本身從自己做起的以公務員的部分以教師的部分我們自己先禁止使用那針對禁止青少年使用的這個部分我們教育部會不會召集教師家長及學生團體共同來研議相關的規範"},{"start":11995.169,"end":12018.062,"text":"事實上跟我們報告也感謝我們關係我們對這個網路上的一些使用我們本來就有跟教師團體跟家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大的國內的通信業者我們都有座談也希望怎麼去透過源頭的一些協助來協助家長能夠讓青少年減少去接觸到"},{"start":12019.082,"end":12039.562,"text":"所以我們有跟相關的團體來座談收集這些聲音這些意見我想請教部長針對有學生團體他們表示說禁止抖音不如教導如何正確試讀那教育部這邊你們立場跟配套是什麼我想我們是這是雙管齊下的"},{"start":12040.723,"end":12067.503,"text":"就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個青少年能夠透過這個試讀辨別裡邊許多的網路它的一個西甲進行或者一些影響不當的一些信息我想這當然教育部這個應該要教我們在這個資訊教育這個部分我們當然也都會有納入的所以教育部這邊會不會持續的來收集包含學生團體的聲音"},{"start":12069.665,"end":12083.713,"text":"我想當然學生的幾多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音我們當然一直就教育部的立場來講這個是台灣未來的所有的希望我們當然會也收集學生的一些聲音"},{"start":12085.39,"end":12100.092,"text":"我們希望來管制跟禁止抖音這是分成兩個部分來談第一個部分本期之前也非常關心關於短影音的部分我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子越來越沒有耐心進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習"},{"start":12100.973,"end":12122.221,"text":"那在這個部分本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出當時的教育部長潘部長有承諾說會做教師增能來協助教學現場的教師來孕婦這樣的狀況那本席希望說目前教育部你們應該還是持續有在進行相關增能的工作也會有繼續收集教學現場的狀況希望說我們能夠適度的來調整繼續的來持續這樣子相關增能的內容"},{"start":12128.983,"end":12146.992,"text":"讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾我們希望這個一定要繼續保持不僅是在老師陣我們有發展這個有許多優秀老師發展這個相關專業的這些教學網路這個網路教學的許多的一個材料提供我們老師上來參考"},{"start":12148.132,"end":12161.524,"text":"那第二個部分呢就我們為什麼希望禁止抖音是因為抖音呢有一個非常不一樣的現象跟其他中國音樂軟體沒有的就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為就是所謂的抖音挑戰這個部長您知道嗎"},{"start":12163.445,"end":12179.114,"text":"所謂的抖音挑戰就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註這個標籤那這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮但是這都是非常危險的例如像昏迷挑戰就是要求加入直播者用神狀物品等"},{"start":12179.474,"end":12192.645,"text":"立住自己長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷來體驗冰死的感受或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的這個地鐵衝浪就是故意在行進中的地鐵的車廂車頂車門外車廂邊緣站立攀爬或是跳躍用這樣危險的動作來勃起他們的關注"},{"start":12199.19,"end":12228.716,"text":"另外還有所謂的吞藥挑戰跳水挑戰等等甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童她模仿這個止汗劑挑戰她對自己身體狂奔止汗劑之後呢造成死亡所以她的父親他就覺得非常的質疑說這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾但他們證實這個生命的起點在這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制這是這個女童她家長的"},{"start":12229.936,"end":12255.803,"text":"那抖音的這些種種的危險挑戰在國外造成很多青少年失去生命當然這個也還有中國他在後台收集使用者資料的這樣的問題所以這已經不單單是所謂什麼文化玻璃心本席認為說為了流量而去做這些毫無意義的挑戰青少年如何可以做到克制或是識別到怎樣的程度這是我們應該要考量的是的 我想這個"},{"start":12256.943,"end":12286.313,"text":"像這些所謂的昏迷的挑戰這些等等的這些本來就是不足取它絕對是違反社會的一個亂言之一那我想這為什麼我們看到這個美國川普總統在前一陣子他透過這個貿易的一個他希望把抖音整個能夠把由美國把它買下來讓它回顧到一個比較正常的一個商業的一個經營的一個模式我想這都也可以"},{"start":12287.153,"end":12316.113,"text":"網路影響群體我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌那禁止抖音呢或是管制抖音的近期也是都是各國討論的重點那其他國家大部分就是因為國安的問題會禁止公務人員公務機關來下載這些中國的軟體像阿爾巴尼亞他就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件他禁抖音一年所以抖音的危害真的不只是短影音文化思想的灌輸其實真的不"},{"start":12316.633,"end":12345.342,"text":"我要再次強調這個不只是文化玻璃性的問題喔這裡面還包含就是我們台灣青少年的人身安全心理健康所以我會一直強調每次有機會跟部長討論的時候我都會提到說我們應該要跟教師團體家長團體學生團體進行溝通研究然後要也很謹慎的做相關的配套的做法那在這一點呢教育部你們現在目前你們對自己現在做的有什麼覺得還要再補足的"},{"start":12346.618,"end":12364.669,"text":"我想也感謝委員的關心因為確實我們也跟三大的電信業者從開學或者學校的許多的進展我們都有專人包含我們資科室全國有幾十個據點都能夠提供這個家長的一些在這方面的一些協助"},{"start":12364.969,"end":12384.586,"text":"只要家長願意我們除了宣傳以外也實際在技術上協助家長來做許多的這些手機上的一些等於說一些把它做一些隔離讓青少年能夠有一個更好的一個使用手機能夠有助於他學習但是不妨礙他的"},{"start":12385.426,"end":12410.121,"text":"對 不能影響到他的不管是身體上或是心理上那這個部分也請教育部這邊要持續的來收集相關的聲音持續的來檢討然後能夠做更周全的相關的配套好 那接下來本席要請教在上週的財政聯席的時候本席有詢問過部長關於財化法的影響在教育經費分配的問題"},{"start":12411.021,"end":12426.195,"text":"那当时本席希望教育部能够尽速跟各地方政府协调经费如何分配也有提醒教育部应该跟民众说明分配的结果那部长这边您也做到了在周末的时候就迅速的公布明年将有地方政府来负担的相关的经费的项目"},{"start":12426.835,"end":12442.863,"text":"但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳說中央未來不補助教育經費地方政府需要自籌財源可能會排擠到其他教育的經費但其實就像本席之前一直提醒到部長這邊的"},{"start":12444.464,"end":12466.899,"text":"有給地方的教育的經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面已經就已經包含在裡面教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項了所以教育部這邊你們還是要嚴正的澄清中央補助地方經費減少"},{"start":12474.764,"end":12500.312,"text":"那麼應該由地方自治所做的教育的事項不應該再由地方政府這邊來補助應該回給地方政府由地方政府來負擔所以部長您這邊應該如果有面對這樣的質疑你必須做更清楚的說明謝謝委員提醒因為確實以前是要等於說用計劃型或者一些申請然後中央等於教育部才把經費撥到地方嘛"},{"start":12500.652,"end":12528.238,"text":"那現在就直接因為財化法就直接把它包含就許多我們原來政策在做的一個事情就直接下放到地方譬如說這一個2到6歲我們原來編688億那現在就直接這一個88億已經直接到地方裡面另外我們600億還是中央就直接撥到按這一個實際的人這個學生人數跟老師的一些營運的經費也是直接"},{"start":12529.378,"end":12557.737,"text":"撥到地方就是說我們在這個部分我想未來我們會把它講清楚陳儒部長您剛剛所回答的這些經費直接給了已經給了那麼地方的教育單位他們知不知道錢拿了就是要該做這些權責的區分這個部分也希望說你們要跟地方政府再溝通好而且我希望說我們教育部是有一個監督的機制因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用是不是確實的用到教育上這一點其實家長也很關心"},{"start":12558.317,"end":12577.357,"text":"也跟我们报告确实我们因应财务法当时也跟22个县市的教育局所长我们也担心说因为本来明显是县市首长他当然有一定的城市发展的一些重点跟理念的一个在经会上的一些编列那我们也希望说既有的"},{"start":12577.717,"end":12595.127,"text":"教育部的政策這些經費下放到地方的時候也一定要讓這個縣市首長能夠知道把這個經費能夠何時的用來推動這個地方的一個教育事務本席就是希望說這些教育經費竟然已經給了地方政府"},{"start":12595.407,"end":12616.942,"text":"他是可以被落實的被使用在教育項目而不是被地方政府挪用之後又來跟中央又來跟教育部說他沒有經費所以這個部分也希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行所以我說需要一個監督的機制這個部分也請教育部你們再研議然後有相關的方式呢你再跟我辦公室這邊給我一份資料謝謝委員提醒謝謝委員製導"},{"start":12619.431,"end":12643.243,"text":"好謝謝陳舊寶委員的質詢那謝謝部長請回座好就這樣子好就先離席接下來請劉淑斌召委質詢"},{"start":12650.566,"end":12651.712,"text":"有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":12659.755,"end":12682.97,"text":"教委好部長好今天跟你要討論的是關於有學校退場的議題我們看到的是在暑假期間有三個苗栗的高中或高職還有一個台南的高職還有彰化的各個高職的學校他退場那我們就要關心的是"},{"start":12684.258,"end":12699.854,"text":"學生的權益跟校地的預計何時來規劃還包括的是後續的時程是如何進行還是否會依照公益性的原則回歸教育用途來處理那我們現在助理檢準備的這些資料裡面"},{"start":12700.735,"end":12722.853,"text":"雖然我們看到的是在學生當中現在就少數的學生但是學生裡面的授教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的想請問的是部長或者是看到是署長你這邊對於學校的學生的授教權可以看到它現在比較少但是現在教師的工作權這部分處理的原則是什麼"},{"start":12724.67,"end":12740.007,"text":"我想跟委員報告事實上學生的受效期我們一定如果學校退場我們一定會就近的安排包含這一個它可能衍生出的交通費我們大概在整個退場的機制裡面都會這一個對學生可以一些協助"},{"start":12740.447,"end":12755.734,"text":"那另外老師的一些 他的一個工作權或者他的一個薪資上所有的東西我們事實上以這幾年來我們在私校退場都有一個非常標準的SOP處理的機制我想怎麼樣去確保老師的一個權益好 這個SOP就請部長之後就給本辦公室"},{"start":12763.777,"end":12792.733,"text":"那另外更重要的是校地的問題我們看到的是有幾個在撕苗栗的跟彰化的部分你們教育部有注意到說它必須要不得做私用嘛它有些長照啦或者是要做養生的你們把它補住了那算是好事情但是時程上面現在請問大概這些什麼時候校地這邊要怎麼樣的時間性或大概多久會處理完有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調這在你們報告當中有呈現出來了"},{"start":12793.453,"end":12813.071,"text":"好跟委員報告針對私校退場之後他的校地在完成解散清算之後他才有辦法去做校地的處理那行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用那會先徵詢各部會"},{"start":12814.532,"end":12840.451,"text":"看有沒有部會有需要這樣的校地來做公務使用以大專校園來講已經有非常多的部會跟縣市政府來參加現在也還沒到所謂的結算的部分所以還沒有進行大概就可以知道說現在有這些的一個幾種的處理方式我們看到的教育部這邊是不是可以承諾他必須都是為教育公益為優先考量是能做這樣的承諾呢"},{"start":12841.252,"end":12854.109,"text":"而以公益优先这个是没有问题一定是公用的那至于这个公用是不是在教育方面或是在例如说卫福部它可能有"},{"start":12856.142,"end":12882.395,"text":"長照的需求經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等那這個就看承接的部會好這部會講到有注意到這個公益我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情我們現在看到的是明道大學我想應該同樣是這個問題他們沒有做清算是不是這樣子好那另外的我包括的是在清大這邊我們看到是有這樣的發展是好事情在根據中華大學的部分"},{"start":12882.995,"end":12906.11,"text":"那他還有老師喔所以這邊要特別要注意到老師這部分我想這個請教育部這邊的後來跟這邊就繼續在追蹤他做下報告好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看我潮池化的問題不只是涉及到現在要退場的就是包括之後看到的是依照這個全國私立學校產業工會的分析當中未來大家看這個表"},{"start":12907.01,"end":12913.056,"text":"現在是一個低潮啦但是下一次的時候呢會跟到124年的時候從現在的一般的17萬到14萬多那請問一下教育部這邊有什麼樣的規劃嗎針對這樣的情況"},{"start":12923.742,"end":12942.902,"text":"那跟委員報告那針對整個少子女化的這樣的一個狀況當然這個是一個不可逆除了說國內聲援的一個持續我們透過行政院的少子女化專案辦公室來增加國內的請問一下是不是只能只有退場"},{"start":12943.943,"end":12973.303,"text":"是他當然可以轉型那現在是人數少可是有沒有機會是值得提升值上面的提升我們現在看到是外教育部針對有招了國外的學生進來這是好事情包括的是有什麼新南向專班等等的可是那學校的這部分好像只針對外國學生有利可是我們本國學生的這部分是不是有增加像在私校的計時體系當中的有這些考量讓他們值配得到不是只有這種"},{"start":12973.943,"end":12998.695,"text":"像長照這些體系而包括更重要的是在於包括像AI或者是更重要大概醫療的部分等等的有這個考慮嗎有 跟我們報告其實這幾年政府對於技職教育的資源投入其實是非常的多所以我們對於整個技職校園的一個設備配合國家5加2的產業發展"},{"start":13000.296,"end":13019.723,"text":"我們有建了很多的一個人才培育基地那像今年我們又針對AI百工百業AI人才的培育那我們也提供我們的學校你這樣宣傳夠嗎針對像有些進入他從小中學他進入到高職的時候其實在國中結束就有一個很重要這個宣傳夠嗎"},{"start":13021.864,"end":13043.661,"text":"現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些的計畫來推動那我剛剛跟報告的是記專的部分跟委員報告感謝委員關心因為確實少子化一定會對高校產生一定的衝擊可是我也利用這個在這一年來我也跟我們大學的校長做一個觀念的分享"},{"start":13044.844,"end":13066.02,"text":"我們不要少子化如果它是一個客觀的一個事實除了我們產業需求我們引進所謂的這個僑外生以外來豐富我們的這個產業的需求人才的培育另外還有一個就是從終身學習的觀點來看為什麼我們那麼多的大學150幾所大學每一個都在想18"},{"start":13067.788,"end":13090.912,"text":"所以那一個所謂的15萬未來15萬或者14萬的學生我們能不能想從終身學習產業上的一些不斷的科技的發展30歲以後他應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學也就是說我們未來的招生大學的經營不應該只在想18歲而是你要想怎麼樣去把自己"},{"start":13091.272,"end":13105.93,"text":"部長你說的很好但是很重要的是如果人才一直少像應該有做院裡面要做所謂的跨部會的讓人才的能夠或是人生育率能夠再提升啦這是非常重要的這當然是另外一個對人口的一個政策上的一個問題好我知道政府"},{"start":13106.511,"end":13129.316,"text":"部長你有這樣一個宣示是抓終身學習是也在做也是蠻好的我們繼續下面看一個問題在學習歷程這邊看到的是很大的一個這是造成在暑假當中一個很大的新聞有一個造假之後他就重新透過分科測驗裡面就進來了你看到的時候想問教育部對於學習歷程造假這個問題發現到這個制度跟運作有什麼問題"},{"start":13130.256,"end":13149.803,"text":"包括更重要是我們看到的是有團體喔他提到的是他說浪費很大的長大的資源事實上有1.5萬份的是無人審閱那教室呢疲於應付還有造假是難以查核因為你既然做這部分就很重要去查核可是更重要是請問教育部裡面的在大學大考中心裡面所"},{"start":13151.132,"end":13169.957,"text":"學歷 學習歷程他的目的應該是要作為讓他去瞭解這個考試瞭解整個學習的甚至透過自己的生涯的規劃嘛對吧那這個情況我們想問的是可是在這種情況之下教育部問到的他看到你什麼問題呢"},{"start":13173.787,"end":13202.487,"text":"学习历程档案的这一个部分就大学端来讲它确实如同刚才委员所说的是在学生这些老师在审查学生的一个过程中看他学习的整个过程所以我们也透过了相关的一个跟高中端以及大学端的一个讨论希望能够未来在针对学习历程档案怎么样更符合检视出来是这个学生所如实表现的这个部分也有做了一些精进的一个探讨"},{"start":13203.027,"end":13218.375,"text":"你們有做查核嗎我們目前是用宣導的形式來鼓勵高中端的學生在填寫這個學生歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫這個部分我們有加強宣導我們也有印製手冊來給這些學生做參考"},{"start":13218.795,"end":13244.631,"text":"那在高中端的部分我想国教署这边也有在老师的一个教导学生上面的部分辅导学生的部分也有做相关的一个改进好这个部分我们看到的是其实这个是国教盟这边提出来这部分它造成了很多的一个成果没办法展现而且学生的这个学习效果它的就是"},{"start":13245.431,"end":13258.076,"text":"並沒有說這麼樣的如實去呈現然後甚至是造成家庭背景到校別的差異很大這重要的是說他們提供的建議是說如果你是把它跟升學的考試結合在一起的時候是一個大的問題"},{"start":13262.398,"end":13286.808,"text":"如果本身的目的是要讓大家可以知道這樣的一個學習你認識的話重視到學習的效果等等的這部分請問教育部這邊的一些改革方因為你剛剛所說的要去查核或是說學倫的一個宣導等等都是好事情可是這部分還是沒有辦法必須要回歸到學習歷程當中很核心的部分它就是要重視他自己學習而不是跟學習就是跟升學掛鉤"},{"start":13287.648,"end":13314.276,"text":"想问教育部的改革方向当中有没有考虑到说这个废除或是说全面的改制跟委员报告那其实我们在今年度其实有委托我们的一个研究团队指出来其实我们大学是这个保守会学吗对是我们相关的研究室指出来其实老师在审查这些学生的备审资料当中学习历程档案是他们重要的一个参考"},{"start":13314.716,"end":13339.89,"text":"那也可以看出學生他在整個高中學習階段的一個他的一些學習的一些潛力在哪裡那這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員做參考其實雖然高中端有在老師我們也有調查到說您說的沒有錯這個是參考非常好但是既然他是參考就應該不要再算在他的升學裡面的積分部長您的想法呢"},{"start":13340.64,"end":13361.18,"text":"跟委員報告其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年的課綱的一個實施是 但是跟教學的跟升學掛鉤這樣是好的嗎那我們在學生的審查資料當中學生可以把這一份讓學生可以充分的展現自己在老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據啦當時的一個資料"},{"start":13362.722,"end":13372.897,"text":"對 審查依據但是如果把它計分其實就是一個比較可惜的會浪費了很多的項鍊而且人生你要做的話就是效果應該呈現但是計分時的要去考慮要不要放進來的"},{"start":13374.095,"end":13394.475,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們內部也在跟大學端在做一些討論在研議就是說我們肯定學習歷程當然對一個學生他整個學習的紀錄包含他整個生涯發展的一些想像怎麼樣去連結但是要不要變成一個必要的一個畢業的還是"},{"start":13396.789,"end":13409.903,"text":"尊重各大學各系所裡邊的一些他們自己來規範我想我們內部事實上也在做這樣的一個討論是不是有一個大概半年之內在下一次之前有一個報告我想我們跟大學端裡邊有一個更積極的討論的一個結果我想我們會來做一個說明"},{"start":13417.071,"end":13441.821,"text":"好 我現在最後一個議題很快就是在教師方的議題因為我自己也要遵守自己的規則教師方問題剛才好幾位的委員都已經提到那最重要的我針對的會是在因為全教總有他們的一個訴求那教育部長您也都應該聽到啦在這邊的 我想要特別強調是在待遇的合理上面是一個整體看的有這個本心啦"},{"start":13442.561,"end":13468.36,"text":"教導師費 行政佳績 特殊偏遠 終點費那終點費其實是針對的是代理教師跟兼任教師可能是比較重視的那這些部分的話我想剛出國家盟這邊或是全教總統提到的是一個行政職務的佳績這邊就有經常教育部裡面就非常多的一個一個意見說要公教一體來把它駁回啦那這個部分我想要請教的是是不是因為"},{"start":13469.401,"end":13484.386,"text":"叫部長跟國教署彭署長你也知道了教師荒這個問題已經讓了包括師培生都不願意進入到就算是拿到證照他也不願意去到教師的現場去了所以這邊的待遇合理的部分包括"},{"start":13485.546,"end":13509.515,"text":"跟所謂的消費者指數的差異性都是差很大那這一部分我想要請部長這是真的非常重要因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育那我們又是以特別以人才的培育的優秀人才為主的這樣一個國家是不是可以部長您是不是可以承諾針對這邊的教師的待遇合理的部分針對這麼多項這部分做一下的一個在"},{"start":13510.808,"end":13530.943,"text":"在半年之內做一個這樣評估報告或是在一定時間做一個評估報告必須跟大家大眾公布感謝委員的一個關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作的一個價值的一個肯定事實上委員所關心的是教育部一直把它列為我們一個重點那當然"},{"start":13531.804,"end":13547.227,"text":"我想我們這個方向的努力那個重點那是什麼時間你不能就曠日Face明年等下在一年之後又出現了我必須要跟委員講就是說我們在訂定很多方式的時候它一定是從整體的一個國家的一個各個行業領域的一個考量"},{"start":13547.668,"end":13562.735,"text":"但是他一定是怎麼樣提升老師的待遇合理的一個待遇我想這是我們你要應該要提供一個時間點例如說在半年之內好不好半年之內我們先提供一個評估報告沒有說要做什麼但是先出評估報告出來可以嗎可以"},{"start":13563.095,"end":13592.021,"text":"可以那另外一部分就是在退休的部分現在看到的所得替代率在軍人部分已經調到80%警校這邊因為有這樣的再如果撥補下去也大概80%那可是老師這部分60%這又是很大的部分想要請問在如果公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然是可能是全序部這邊要進行那教育部您的部長您作為教師的這個領域教育界的這個大家長您的探訪隊隊退休只到60%"},{"start":13593.361,"end":13616.426,"text":"你的看法是如何我老師的許多的待遇包含退休我當然是全力這個樂觀其成也會這一個支持那當然這裡邊誠如剛才委員所講的他有許多的這些制度我們當然一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場那當然是從國家的一個整體來看他當然有一定的一個整體上的一些規劃"},{"start":13618.126,"end":13630.997,"text":"我想您是教育部長應該表現出來一個支持挺教師的一個態度那至於整個國下預算怎麼等等的算是行政院要考量的這當然是不要質疑的是說你是挺教師的嘛 對不對待遇再提開好 謝謝部長好 謝謝昭緯謝謝委員謝謝書斌昭緯質詢部長請回座"},{"start":13653.888,"end":13657.892,"text":"好謝謝剛才的質詢那現在請陳瑩瑚委員來質詢時間4分鐘謝主席麻煩請部長鄭部長請"},{"start":13678.345,"end":13693.162,"text":"委員好部長好因為昨天總質詢時間很有限還有一題跟教育部有關係的來不及問所以我今天特別來這裡跟您垂詢今天我想針對教育部推動的青年百億海外圓夢基金計畫來請教"},{"start":13695.825,"end":13719.835,"text":"那這項計畫是落實賴總統政見一個非常重要的政策那主要在幫助15到30歲的青年可以出國拓展國際視野培養行動力和競爭力那麼這個計畫分為這個竹夢工廠組和海外翱翔組包括年度旗艦計畫例如像今年的這個環境永續的主題"},{"start":13721.815,"end":13749.645,"text":"經費也相當可觀我想這個不僅是能夠讓台灣青年在國際舞台上展現他們的創造力還有他們的韌性也可以帶動整個百工百業一個創新的成長我個人是非常認同這樣子的一個方向因為這樣的一個計畫它給年輕人一個圓夢的機會特別是這些資源相對不足的這些青年"},{"start":13751.846,"end":13768.095,"text":"我想請教一下就是今年的報名情形還有整個弱勢比較偏鄉啦原住民還有經濟弱勢的這些年輕人的報名"},{"start":13769.216,"end":13796.482,"text":"状况如何感谢委员的一个关心确实这个青年白艺这一个青年这一个海外这个圆梦计划确实在今年来讲它确实是创造了我们许多年轻朋友从15岁到30岁有非常大的一个关注那整个报名以今年第一年的一个这样一个第一年的一个办理"},{"start":13797.422,"end":13823.172,"text":"總共有八千八百多位這一個十五歲到三十歲的這個年輕朋友青少年包括這一些年輕朋友來報名那確實我們看到了就比較像原住民或者經濟弱勢或者甚至身心障礙的他的報名比例是偏低的也就是說我們看到原住民大概就只有"},{"start":13824.352,"end":13835.423,"text":"在8000多位裡面只有125位然後經濟弱勢只有83位然後身心障礙的學生等於說"},{"start":13836.69,"end":13857.144,"text":"只有17位的學生等於說青少年等於說這些親人朋友來報名這個希望他有夢那希望大家這個國家搭的這個台能夠來協助他也夢那最後呢就是說整體來看我們這個比例是甚至你看經濟弱勢跟生意上連1%都沒有"},{"start":13858.765,"end":13878.626,"text":"我想這個換算起來就其他族群我就講原住民的部分我們起碼佔總人口數有2%多但是這樣換算起來好像連一個很基本的門檻都不到我想是這樣子就是說因為主要"},{"start":13880.475,"end":13885.138,"text":"我剛剛講這個其實就是說讓青年有這個圓夢的計畫那我認為在這樣的數據其實反映了幾個問題就是說在你們的這個計畫評選的這個設計上需要更細緻的調整"},{"start":13898.487,"end":13912.814,"text":"例如說申請的流程是否有考慮到這個偏鄉青年的資訊落差還有這個評審標準是不是可以注重更多元的一個背景那你們官方文件也鼓勵說是不是能夠優先"},{"start":13914.454,"end":13934.221,"text":"鼓勵優先考慮弱勢或者沒有海外經驗者這樣你們可以確保就是說比較多元的包容然後但是從這個數據上看是很明顯的不足所以我在這邊強烈建議教育部在明年的這個計畫當中規劃一個有一個一定的比例"},{"start":13934.301,"end":13936.123,"text":"让他们有一个不要输在起跑点的一个竞争机会"},{"start":13953.884,"end":13967.811,"text":"這樣不僅能夠提升計畫的包容性也才可以真正落實總統的青年政策讓我們整個台灣有多元的力量在國際上發光而且我不知道這個我們去坊間詢問其實"},{"start":13970.012,"end":13985.746,"text":"很多人都相當支持這樣的計劃但是如果能夠強化對於這個弱勢的保障我想你們會得到更多的認同不曉得部長對這樣的建議有什麼看法接下來是不是有機會可以再增加這些名額的保障"},{"start":13986.286,"end":14002.883,"text":"感谢委员的一个提醒我想这确实是非常有意义的因为总统这个政见本来他就希望让年轻人特别这些弱势的学生他能够有一些更多的一些机会能够出国去研磨那我们也在第一年的这样一个实际的作用"},{"start":14003.803,"end":14029.059,"text":"这个运作以后确实也看到这个比例是偏低的那未来在明年里边我们从预算里边从10亿增加到20亿我想怎么样去对偏乡对原住民地区或者一些身心障碍的一些这个亲人朋友的一些关照让他们有更友善的一个圆梦的计划包含刚才委员也提到了说比如说有许多的"},{"start":14030.24,"end":14043.496,"text":"這個對偏鄉弱勢的他們怎麼樣去提計畫怎麼樣去協助他們或者甚至加強宣導我想這個末端的這個部分我們一定要來精進我覺得這對未來讓青年海外的這個嚴重"},{"start":14044.858,"end":14067.438,"text":"让他们的梦能够实现我想这个是一个非常重要的政策上我想四年百亿的基金不应该只是都市或优势背景青年的专利所以刚刚我们今天提到这个弱势族群的部分也请你们多加强我想这个我们在新的一年里边我们的规划你刚刚还有个问题没有回答就是那个额度上能够怎么样的名额一定会把它增加"},{"start":14068.278,"end":14094.993,"text":"我們又希望譬如說在因為經費已經double我們目標來看是至少有個300位以上的這個名額能夠確保我們許多原住民的這個年輕朋友或者經濟弱勢甚至身心這個需要有一些協助的這些的一些年輕朋友能夠讓他們更友善的能夠給他們有一些延末的一些機會好 謝謝部長那你都盡量爭取謝謝"},{"start":14097.054,"end":14115.865,"text":"好 謝謝陳怡委員那部長請回座就委員會報告因為等一下下午3點鐘部長要去參加政黨協商那另外的等一下就還有包括兩位次長可能1點鐘有事情要離開所以我們就繼續的這樣這個委員會的質詢業務報告質詢"},{"start":14120.168,"end":14142.909,"text":"好那其他的在場的官員或者是委員們如果說有需要用餐就到外面去領餐好不好就是也不要耽誤到大家的一個中午用餐時間那就是我們用餐採取這樣的方式那質詢就持續下去那就是部長就相關部會想就辛苦了好那現在請林怡瑾委員質詢"},{"start":14149.222,"end":14152.124,"text":"謝謝主席 有請鄭部長鄭部長請部長好首先要跟部長探討原住民族教育在各個層面是否可以擴及即將核定的平埔原住民有關平埔原住民的這個身份法這個很有可能就在10月底能完成刪讀"},{"start":14177.342,"end":14206.124,"text":"那在這個同時身份取得以外的其他的配套政策我想也應該這個同時併進所以我在這裡就是說也要跟這個部長來探討也提醒部長因為我去年過去啦上一個會期其實非常積極參與這個評普原住民族身份法的這個立法討論那在審查會中我也有提醒原民會就是為了維繫評普原住民的文化傳承語言教育"},{"start":14206.984,"end":14233.774,"text":"這個非常重要所以以我選區的西拉雅的實驗小學口皮國小的例子來看在主人的積極努力下這個附贈西拉雅的語言跟文化很有成就所以我想請教部長教育部配合國家語言發展法那依照學生選課需求要開設原住民這個族群 族語課程"},{"start":14235.154,"end":14254.068,"text":"那什麼時候能完成這個評普原住民這個各族語言的師資跟教材的盤點進而開設課程我這邊要求的不多啦因為一開始其實萬事起頭難可是是否可以現在各族主要的分佈地"},{"start":14255.369,"end":14283.429,"text":"因為平埔族有聚落的地方確實不多各族的分佈地來完成盤點跟開設例如像台南的Siraya跟南投的Kahabu我覺得是不是可以從這邊做起那部長是不是可以給個承諾謝謝 我很關心平埔原住民會後我再跟委員報告其實我們平埔原住民族還真的是非常的多對"},{"start":14284.96,"end":14309.239,"text":"那根據這個沈憲德這一個教授的一個研究其實從婚姻的儀式裡面只要結婚有台帝拜天公不顧坐大 為這都是白寶座很多台灣的社群其實都是白寶座傳來我們確實也因為因應這個貧苦族所以這裡邊可能有很多都是有對 可是他還是要去登記才會成為貧苦族登記有個依據"},{"start":14312.262,"end":14328.762,"text":"然後兩個禮拜內我想我們來配合這一個然後跟台南市因為西拉亞我想台南那一個部分家裡地區或者附近大概是西拉亞族我想我們來優先來跟台南市政府來討論看相關的課程教材怎麼樣來發展"},{"start":14330.464,"end":14347.223,"text":"好那再麻煩部長這個給個書面的報告好不好相關的這些提問好那我想再來還是要來跟您討論今天很多委員都關心的讓基層教師怨聲載道的這個校事會議的爛訴的問題"},{"start":14349.205,"end":14363.735,"text":"因為根據之前教育部所做的調查其實在去年解聘辦法修正後的一年來校士會議的投訴案量高達1372案那有超過八成的案件都有受理"},{"start":14364.335,"end":14377.889,"text":"可是經過調查之後的769件中不成立的案件有382件那佔比是49.7 將近五成那可是遭到停解聘的也才只有3.3%"},{"start":14380.291,"end":14401.144,"text":"所以很明顯消失會議我們清楚知道他主要用意是用來處理不適任教師的這個停解聘的事宜可是許多教師都反映很多意想不到的投訴案件都進到消失會議去我在今年其實五月的時候開氣者會也有舉一些案例"},{"start":14402.725,"end":14422.696,"text":"我在這裡就不再贅述那我絕對支持就是你最正確找或者是說真的涉及不適任疑慮的案件我們要盡最大力量來處理可是如果學校花了很多的時間經費去找人找資源來召開校事會議結果卻用在爛訴的案件上"},{"start":14423.416,"end":14450.555,"text":"那我覺得這個對老師不僅是很大的困擾那行政也沒辦法減量那又犧牲了老師備課跟照顧孩子的時間那我想部長真的有很肯定的跟很友善的表達說要研擬就是對匿名檢舉增加限制那我在教育部在上個禮拜也有召開解聘辦法的研商會議那有提出說要新增受理"},{"start":14452.176,"end":14480.254,"text":"之前要有個協調機制那我想要請教部長說那學校端這裡他要怎麼來分類說什麼案件是可以先行溝通協調那什麼案子是進入校事會議我的意思是說有時候學校端你如果沒有給個指引或給個所謂的SOP那學校端也很難依循 部長"},{"start":14481.414,"end":14509.827,"text":"謝謝委員提醒確實我們在這一次的一個修訂裡邊我們就是希望能夠舉一些實際的案例然後給校長行政團隊有一些依循有一些只是口頭他老師的這個語言上的一時的這一些可能的一個疏漏我們就提醒他或者班級經營就提醒他他就改正有一些可能他在管教方式上需要有一段時間來有專人來協助他都沒有進入到"},{"start":14510.347,"end":14534.774,"text":"这一个不必要进入到这个校师会议所以我们在这边以后校师会议就只有处理那一个由社会公正人士组成然后由处理不适任教师那一个区块至于属于要教学改善或者沟通或者亲师合作的这一个部分的增能也好或者一些行为上的调整这个就是在学校里边本权者里边来做"},{"start":14535.434,"end":14562.87,"text":"所以我們大概就是會舉例啦 給學校端有SOP好 那目前進到校事會議之中會有一個調查小組那現在全部的成員都是外聘那我當然知道其實這個外聘我們那時候也是防堵說這個師師相互嘛而且外聘就是所謂的公正人員而且這些外聘人員都有受訓過那也大部分是學者啦 律師等等"},{"start":14563.73,"end":14578.347,"text":"可是現在有個問題出現就是本來的教師代表跟教養代表其實都是應聘 應邀來陳述意見他們就是一個列席的一個情況可是如果說我們調查小組成員"},{"start":14579.588,"end":14600.421,"text":"如果全部都是外聘那這些也只有列席而已那我看很怕說學校的脈絡跟真正的教學的情況這個調查小組不是很了解我們舉個例來講說有時候有個老師他可能平常在學校的表現是非常的不錯"},{"start":14601.341,"end":14617.356,"text":"可是他可能突然間有一個情緒上的問題或怎麼樣然後有一些適當的這個行為那可是你這個外片小組因為他不了解學校這個老師平常的做法所以他可能就意料這個適當的行為"},{"start":14619.218,"end":14643.725,"text":"做出相對嚴厲的處分那對這個老師其實來講不是很公平所以我的意思是說如果有協助調查的教師代表跟家長代表來協助輔助調查的話那是不是會讓這個調查小組的機制更為完備可是前提是這個轉述調查報告一定是這三個外派的 外聘的"},{"start":14644.745,"end":14665.894,"text":"老師跟家長的這個代表就純粹是在輔助調查提供資料那個部長你覺得這樣如何謝謝委員的一個提醒確實我們也考慮到因為以現階段的教師會雖然有教師代表有家長代表都是列席而且常常都是結果定論了以後才去表達意見"},{"start":14666.454,"end":14684.731,"text":"是陳委員所說的我們能不能把它做到前端他也能夠隨著一起調查一起去了解整個事情的脈絡能夠真正的讓老師能夠他的權益不會受到這個損害我想就是說我們有一定程度的一個"},{"start":14685.732,"end":14702.126,"text":"有一些疏漏應該刻意適當的一個證明而不是一刀下去就因為而受到一個冤屈或者不當的一些對待我想委員的這個建議是非常有建設性的我想這也是我們在未來我們可以把他納進來一起來來做整個調整的規劃 謝謝"},{"start":14705.468,"end":14719.402,"text":"這想繼續追問剛剛很多委員關心就是有關於教師法跟教師待遇條例因為老師如果受到停聘解聘或不續聘等等的處分他提起救濟後他有回復聘證"},{"start":14720.723,"end":14738.403,"text":"那我們只能補發他的本心嘛現在規定是這樣可是教師的薪資部長最清楚除了本心以外還有學術研究費那如果他這個未受解聘或停聘處分那他用救濟方式恢復了"},{"start":14739.043,"end":14766.153,"text":"這個聘人老師他沒有給他補發這段時間的這個學術研究費我覺得恐怕不是很公平一定有捏薄心而已所以是不是這個事情也來研究看看讓他如果回復他的那個教師職位的話是不是就可以補給他所謂的全心謝謝委員的一個提醒 確實我們也我想委員的這樣一個建議是很有建設性的我們來努力"},{"start":14766.621,"end":14793.203,"text":"好好謝謝那再簡單喔在那個30秒剛剛很多人提及就是大家都關心的我想這個是大家都關心就是這個終點費跟導師的職務加給的提升我想中間這個我們很多年都沒有提升然後跟物價指數也都沒有跟得上這個我看這個部長你非常非常清楚所以實際上要請教你就說"},{"start":14794.184,"end":14802.838,"text":"到底你現在的規劃中這個終點費或者導師費你有沒有想要調啊調幅大約是多少"},{"start":14803.649,"end":14832.787,"text":"我們關心的跟委員所關心的是一致的然後在教育部內部我們事實上也有一直在討論當然在整個中央財政的一個前提下我們怎麼樣有一個適度的去反映物價指數包括老師的一些穩定老師的一些教學的一些必要的一些支持的一個力量凸顯老師的教學工作的價值這都是我們在努力"},{"start":14832.807,"end":14846.956,"text":"比如說像現在導師費一個月才三千塊 等於一天一百塊真的 一家便當的超過一百塊所以我想這個討論一下 要調整事實調整好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝移情委員 謝謝部長 謝謝官員回座"},{"start":14855.233,"end":14875.736,"text":"好現在請奈會委員委員進行質詢時間4分鐘好謝謝主席有請鄭部長請鄭部長委員好部長那個今年的5月行政院公佈就是AI新科技"},{"start":14876.809,"end":14900.136,"text":"智慧機器人的一個計畫那也宣布就是智慧機器人的一個產業園區落腳在台南的柳營那在六甲 六甲經濟部也計畫成立一個機器人智慧智慧創新應用研究中心這個已經都是相關的事務已經都做得很周全了"},{"start":14901.156,"end":14915.061,"text":"那在這裡我想要跟部長探討的就是說產光學是不是可以攜手我們是不是可以把機器人的一個課程做成制度化讓學習可以常態化"},{"start":14916.161,"end":14933.169,"text":"那我想這樣子我故鄉的孩子他們就有機會在家鄉學到最先進的一個科技那我也希望就是說幫地方預祝更多的一個新的一個能量在6月18號那我們在我們的辦公室召開一個AI機器人這個協程"},{"start":14934.83,"end":14962.039,"text":"那個制度化跟人才培育的一個協調會那當初邀請到教育部那個國教署副署長還有高教師 技職師還有白河商工幾位高職的校長跟業界的代表 物聯網協會的理事長一起到國會辦公室來我們希望聚焦那當時的共識就是說教育部要積極推動示範AI機器人好 四個月過去了那在"},{"start":14964.38,"end":14984.453,"text":"上週就是國土任性的一個協商計畫預算裡頭特別再跟教育部提起這個學程課程李俊彰次長也到辦公室來拜訪同意也說應該要把這個機器人把它納入學程"},{"start":14985.333,"end":14993.825,"text":"可是在這個地方我們要跟部長請教有沒有預算有沒有時程有沒有責任的單位請部長回答"},{"start":14995.285,"end":15020.237,"text":"我想這個AI機器人的教育它本來就是一個Coding一個機器人一個設計這個是在城市設計非常重要的從不應該是只有大學所以我們希望的是從小學 國小剛才委員也提到國教署也出現了即使師傅師長還有我們高教師師長都在我想這個是既定的一個國家產業重點的一個產業"},{"start":15021.858,"end":15039.386,"text":"那怎麼樣培養產業人才從小學 國中 高中到大學端我們會全力來支持而且也會跟產業合作我想這個在四個月前我們也聽到教育部的一個鼓勵那全力的來支持可是後面我們追得好辛苦"},{"start":15040.106,"end":15053.942,"text":"那部長是不是我把這個建議的時程在這裡等一下我會後就是說實業中心我們希望就是說你那個是不是可以任命一個示範的學校跟責任的單位一個高職"},{"start":15055.843,"end":15083.256,"text":"這個高值事實上非常的一個重要那這個機器人的一個產業園區其實他希望有更多建教的一個課程因為現在有很多科技的一個產業其實他是找不到工程師的還有找不到最基礎的這一些就是工程師在第一線的工程師所以就是說如果我們照這個進度來向你建議的話到12月底其實你就可以提出一個書面的報告"},{"start":15084.036,"end":15099.145,"text":"因為這個追蹤的一個機制如果部長你樂意的話我相信我們可以去完成它那你看10月開始到12月底這一個整體的一個建議的時程你認為有沒有問題"},{"start":15101.277,"end":15113.709,"text":"跟委員報告在跟委員討論完之後呢我們會由部內來召開跨司處的一個討論那會根據委員所提供的這樣的一個時程來規劃相關的一些計畫"},{"start":15114.926,"end":15135.84,"text":"部長 這個一定是要跨部會 跨部會的一起共同的合作因為你一定要把國科會 國科會 國發會那個納入因為光是靠交易部 一個能量一定不足的所以就是說 我希望就是說在一個月 一個月內可以給本席一個完整的 一個具體的報告嗎"},{"start":15138.786,"end":15153.359,"text":"目前我們的規劃會按照剛才委員所提示的一個期程來進行一個月可以剛才委員沒有我說一個月可以提報告嗎我們還是依照可以按照一個月內會提出"},{"start":15154.079,"end":15180.545,"text":"好謝謝次長那也謝謝部長我想部長在下一次的質詢再利用一個時間那跟你探討就是青年青少年淪為這個這個就是詐騙集團的車手這個議題再跟你做共同的一個探討謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝代會委員謝謝部長還有其他行政官員現在請徐欣盈委員進行質詢"},{"start":15184.234,"end":15198.226,"text":"時間4分鐘好 謝謝主席 本席有請鄭部長有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":15204.677,"end":15222.097,"text":"部長好部長我們今天只有4分鐘本席想請教您您知不知道現在很多家長他可能他自己本身甚至也是公立學校的老師但他會讓他的孩子讀私校"},{"start":15223.138,"end":15250.484,"text":"所以就變成台灣現在的情況是私立國中的學生整個相對的穩定而且逆勢成長十年來我們私校生占比23%但是這個很多的家長現在不願意把孩子送去公校公立的去送去私立的本席特別指國小國中特別國中那您知道"},{"start":15251.892,"end":15278.992,"text":"这个情况吗跟委员报告我约略知道这个我们现在有一些对就是说私立的国家长们正在用行动公投对教育部这十年来的教育政策成果表达不信任跟委员报告我觉得台湾的教育不能用这样单一家长的选择因为民主法治的社会本来就有多样性"},{"start":15279.652,"end":15297.783,"text":"所以我认为那为什么私校越来越多我认为我们公立学校的老师他对台湾整个人才的培育他的贡献绝对来来来家长不是对学校老师或校长不满我要特别讲家长不是对学校老师或校长不满"},{"start":15298.343,"end":15315.831,"text":"而且大家對於第一線教育人員的盡忠職守全力維護學生的安全跟品質我們都非常的肯定本席要問你的是為什麼私校現在家長是什麼原因讓他們想往私校去不敢再公立學校"},{"start":15316.511,"end":15333.929,"text":"我要問的是您知道原因是什麼我想不應該講說不敢到公立學校因為在許多因為我們現在的這個double income的這個家庭裡面年輕家庭他確實他希望學校能夠給他的小孩因為少子化有一個更多的一個更完整的照顧"},{"start":15335.45,"end":15349.272,"text":"私校從你那個時候我那個時候就你中小學的時候我中小學的時候就有了然後income比較好的給他去私校這種情況本來就一直是這樣我指的是這10年私校成長了23%"},{"start":15352.34,"end":15374.232,"text":"那他这是有一个趋势23%不少耶 1⁴我觉得某一个角度来看就是说我们过去私立学校我现在要问的是您知不知道是什么原因我认为私立学校因为随着潮流他们在整个教学品质跟学生辅导各方面他也在进步很好他也在进步我们要讲的是这不是不只是为了升学的竞争"},{"start":15375.692,"end":15396.718,"text":"這個完全是對於校園安全很多家長對於現在公立學校的校園安全同儕環境還有管教秩序的不安所以才會讓家長有這樣的一種有一點集體公投對我們的教育他表達了他的選擇"},{"start":15398.579,"end":15409.363,"text":"所以那這個部分跟我們在校園的譬如說他們選擇相對上安全的環境管理嚴謹的這種學習環境給他的孩子"},{"start":15412.423,"end":15441.342,"text":"所以今天因為時間關係我們要從兩個一個是校園的教師的管轄權管教權還有就是校園安全這兩塊那因為時間關係我想校園安全我們今天來談我們的校園安全我想部長一定知道不管是校園暴力外人闖入學生自傷或帶凶器入校這個情況近年來的成長比例您手上應該要有數據"},{"start":15442.723,"end":15457.6,"text":"這成長比例很可怕暴力事件偏差行為成長了88%意外事件成長了50%安全維護事件也成長了40幾%所以這一個部分部長有什麼對策"},{"start":15460.047,"end":15485.212,"text":"謝謝委員關心學校的一個安全確實我們這一個譬如說這一個social emotion learning本來我們社會情緒裡邊我們很清楚這個model就是希望學生能夠了解他自己的情緒也能夠了解別人的情緒而且有一些簡單的social skill能夠有助於他在那你現在有什麼對策嘛你現在校園安全網就破洞了"},{"start":15485.512,"end":15512.966,"text":"没有 这个部分也就是说我要讲的说从基础的一些课程结合班级经营包括课程在学习这个是一个另外一个就是说我们也看到随着社会的一个快速发展学校当然也面临一些经营上的治安上的一些挑战你怎么协助学校我们也希望从社区社区包括到警政系统共同来协助学校能够建构一个更好的一个"},{"start":15514.747,"end":15533.561,"text":"現在多數的國中還有小型的學校沒有專職的校安人員您應該知道自從高中就是校官退場以後教育部推動學務創新人力沒關係這個我就不講但是現在的多數的國中還有比較小型的學校"},{"start":15534.201,"end":15558.721,"text":"他們都沒有校職安全人員還有就是現在竟然一直強調AI所以我們校園安全除了人力你人力已經不足了你有沒有想辦法用科技的防衛公文報告我上任以後確實我們也看到了一些怎麼樣去協助學校的安全的一個維護所以我們在國中那個部分我們先我知道你們有500"},{"start":15560.242,"end":15583.151,"text":"500多位的校恩人就一年嘛對不對你有長期的預算嗎有長期的規劃嗎本來那個我們也認為那是一個學校穩定的一個重點怎麼樣去減少老師在這個校恩世界的處理包含怎麼樣去支持老師許多行政上額外的一些負擔我們在這個部分是我們優先列為政策上會的支持"},{"start":15583.291,"end":15601.31,"text":"所以除了人力我們是不是可以也運用科技全面升級數位監控系統導入AI智慧分析和警報你加強一些高風險區域的監控不管是操場遊戲區還有運動區這一些我們可不可以朝這個方向來改進"},{"start":15602.291,"end":15630.828,"text":"跟委員報告事實上學校在幾多的重點的這些安全的防護它本來都有一定的一些設備包含監視器但是委員所提的這是一個好的一個建議怎麼樣去結合科技能夠讓我們社會安全智慧巡邏機器人可以考慮智慧巡邏機器人好不好在走廊巡查各方面提醒學生的安全也可以補足人力的不足"},{"start":15632.192,"end":15655.219,"text":"謝謝委員部長朝這個方向來做好嗎我們來我們來演繹好謝謝謝謝許新穎委員請部長回座謝謝現在請陳培宇委員進行質詢時間4分鐘好謝謝主席我們讓部長喝口水"},{"start":15657.401,"end":15665.46,"text":"好我們請國教署長好了啦我們換署長那部長旁邊部長休息一下但是我想我們我們講的部長都非常清楚好來"},{"start":15667.795,"end":15690.013,"text":"謝謝署長好署長辛苦了我們辦公室昨天才跟一些教文的委員當然還有包含許富奎委員我們開了一個特教座談會因為許富奎委員昨天自己也有說他自己的兒子也是糖寶寶其實我想部裡面一直都知道我們辦公室每一個會期都會辦特教座談會那因為有特教的議題方方面面那我想"},{"start":15690.794,"end":15716.783,"text":"收攏的議題非常多不可能在今天討論完畢那後續的工作要持續推進就是我們辦公室這邊公開拜託教育部跟國教署積極協助所有收攏的問題我們讓普特融合這個議題可以做得更好好不好好的好署長我們來看一下我們今天就先講第一個就好了來疑似生疑似生是現在讓普師跟特師都感到非常困擾的議題第一個因為我們對於疑似生的定義"},{"start":15717.683,"end":15746.039,"text":"其實沒有法規範的定義也沒有相關的說明所以我們來看一下現場這個數字這是你們給我們的數字以台北市來說特教生跟疑似生的比例是4比1也就是說在台北市光是疑似生就2510名來到了宜蘭縣也是5比1花蓮縣也是5比1這個是特生跟疑似生的比例可是很詭異的是很奇怪我們來看高雄市整個高雄市在113年度只有一名疑似生"},{"start":15747.392,"end":15773.695,"text":"如果同樣都是六都署長你有沒有覺得這個數字差別太大了我認為這個差別之所以這麼大不是台北市出了問題也不是高雄市出了問題而是我們對於疑似生的定義跟認識不會只有地方上的差異可能你當老師的班跟我當老師的班署長你當導師跟我當導師我們對於疑似生的定義就不清楚而且沒有百分之百相同導致於我們出現這個數字"},{"start":15775.696,"end":15800.616,"text":"這部分你要不要說明一下我時間很短你快速說明中央委員報告兩點目前法規上是的確沒有比較明確的這個定義但是它跟鑑定是綁在一起鑑定這個錢那現在我們想要在兩個月內把委員所及現在平均數是約略10比1但局部縣市有剛才比較奇異的現象這一些我們會去了解當地地方政府執行的情形"},{"start":15800.896,"end":15829.269,"text":"好但是我們到底要怎麼樣定義疑似身我認為這件事情是現場老師都需要你們的幫忙那當然因為現場老師他們每天都在陪伴學生所以他們在現場觀察的意見拜託你們一定要收攏不要只有透過教總或是教材我認為更多地方老師的座談拜託去收攏我們會自行執行好拜託定義要清楚再來往下看第二個問題現在疑似身老師們在現場面對的困境是你看根據你們的法規所寫的"},{"start":15830.549,"end":15854.34,"text":"為持有各級主管機關合法有效鑑定證明之身心障礙疑似身學校要因學生輔導法規定提供服務特教老師也要提供協助然後還要觀察跟學習特殊需求評估必要的時候還要提報鑑定這就是我剛說的普施跟特施都在服務這些學生也就是說普施跟特施都在疑似身高漲的現場"},{"start":15856.261,"end":15877.89,"text":"那個師生比其實是要提高的可是我們現在看到的生師比其實是不含一次生對不對 署長目前是沒有沒錯所以署長我們一起看到老師的困境好不好老師的困境就是生師比很難降下來然後可是家長對於生師比很高其實也常年不滿孩子所能夠受到照顧跟服務相對也沒有那麼好所以呢"},{"start":15878.59,"end":15905.514,"text":"可是我們特教法又規定要降低生殖比可是我們對於疑似生的定義又不清楚可是現場全球都有一個趨勢署長你一定比我清楚全球都有一個趨勢就是特教生的比例越來越高包含美國他們都因為這樣要積極的在川普政府任內要推出相對應的法規跟大量的預算所以我認為特教生這個議題絕對是部裡面非常重的議題要拜託部長跟署長我們一起努力好不好是的"},{"start":15905.834,"end":15935.614,"text":"好 最后一个我要三秒钟讲完我就不长暂的听就可以了体育班的问题我相信部里面已经开启跟运动部的讨论我还是一个简单的诉求不管在几年内我希望越短时间越好我们让体育班这件事情要回归教育部主管机关这个非常非常重要但是如何在回归教育部主管机关同时收拢现场基层教练的声音家长的声音同时照顾到每一个学生的需求这个事情非常非常重要拜托我们一起努力"},{"start":15936.034,"end":15939.477,"text":"好 謝謝署長 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝陳柏宇委員 謝謝署長現在我們請伍麗華委員進行質詢謝謝主席 有請部長請鄭部長"},{"start":15960.404,"end":15979.469,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了在上個會期5月28的時候我來教文委員會質詢教育部長有提到兩大訴求這兩大訴求其實就是在教育界討論非常熱烈的當時我的訴求第一個就是說希望能夠做個分流機制來處理匿名檢舉"},{"start":15981.63,"end":16006.6,"text":"那另外一個就是希望我可以請我們教育部來針對校士會議全國中等以下學校的這個數據樣態可以掌握到那非常感謝我也拿到了調查的一個數據資料那總歸來講大概有三點第一個就是發現這些案件中八成是受理的但是受理的中間有一半"},{"start":16007.1,"end":16027.84,"text":"是不成立的而且成立的案件中呢超过一半是进入考核办法是轻微的申戒所以呢这个跟我们大致上想象的也差不多所以我后来也看到教育部发布的新闻稿也提到说会修校事会议办法包括这种匿名检举"},{"start":16028.36,"end":16049.47,"text":"還有案件的受理的一個分流方向非常好但是我想這個部分我還是有一些部分還是要來提醒精進那第一個部分就是因為在這些受理調查期間礙於教師法的第25條大家很在意的就是調查期間的半薪那結果如果沒有的時候"},{"start":16050.686,"end":16061.414,"text":"只能夠回復本心所以這個對無望之災的人來講真的是非常非常的冤枉我不曉得說部長這個部分有精進作為了嗎"},{"start":16063.18,"end":16082.239,"text":"感谢委员关心教师的一个权益特别对老师这个受到不实的指控以后怎么样恢复我觉得那是一个也是另外一种所谓的社会的正义所以委员所关心的确实是我们内部现在演绎的一个方向"},{"start":16083.496,"end":16111.228,"text":"請問教育部這邊會主動來修教師法或待遇條例嗎我想我們會跟行政院做報告我希望教育部要主動 好不好另外一個部分就是大家很關心所謂的調查的人才 人才庫因為根據我們這個解聘辦法裡面沒有寫到回訊這樣的一個做法也沒有提到利益迴避的一個機制其中就是關於淘汰"},{"start":16112.088,"end":16136.924,"text":"的機制是有但是我不太曉得說到底你們有沒有調查過那到底被淘汰的多少人他的比例是多少六常識好那利益迴避機制呢"},{"start":16140.823,"end":16160.854,"text":"官委員報告現行的各種比較高層次的例如程序法 先進程序法這些都已經有規範那麼他們都會簽署那就去根據那個就可以那淘汰機制是辦法裡頭有寫啦還有沒有可以到點都有因為時間的關係是不是可以提供我書面資料我想知道那個淘汰的人數跟比例好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":16162.395,"end":16191.065,"text":"那另外呢就是針對這個重複投訴拒絕受理第51條有但是有一條說宰民陳情人對主管機關之處理結果不服者不得提起救濟那這個部分我們是覺得說也是有問題為什麼因為他不得提起救濟結果呢就只好找明帶只好找媒體爆料衍生更多的恐慌所以我不曉得說這個部分是不是應該要去修正提供救濟管道"},{"start":16193.473,"end":16217.783,"text":"中文報告這都會一併在我們未來的修正都會一併好謝謝部長那另外一個議題就是我非常關心我們族語文教師的一個發展那當然我在這邊要特別謝謝教育部因為我這幾年關心的一些像是已經有辦理原住民公費專班謝謝那調整公費生的畢業條件"},{"start":16219.404,"end":16239.698,"text":"然後國小足語師資調整為中高級或者是完備原住民族文化學習空間給予這樣的一個補助等等其實每一年每一年謝謝教育部都有聽到我們的聲音也都能夠去做這樣的一個改變那我也代替我們基層的這些老師們"},{"start":16240.838,"end":16264.129,"text":"說聲感謝但是我想關心一下因為我看今天的夜報說本土語文專長教師證書之師資累計到今年8月底一共有2567人然後截至去年度113學年度取得教師證人數的有983人那請教一下這個當中有多少位是原住民的族語師資"},{"start":16272.2,"end":16297.633,"text":"我們那個稍後確認再跟你好沒關係那就提供我書面資料為什麼我這樣關心因為我們來看一下其實我們目前的主語教師有分三類第一類就是專職主語教師第二類是教學支援老師第三類就是限職的老師他有認證之後他也可以選擇去上主語課但是我們來看一下比例專職教師大概占一成"},{"start":16298.453,"end":16317.149,"text":"教学支援老师大概占八成限职老师会去投入教主义课的大概是一成所以绝大中都是在教学支援教师但是我们看一下业报写的说要增进专职主义教师的权益也有说要把他的薪资基准要提升3%"},{"start":16318.61,"end":16341.947,"text":"但是剛才有談到教學資源教師才是最大宗七八成沒有看到他的權益那麼專職主語教師能夠加薪主語教師很辛苦我為什麼這樣講前陣子的新聞在台南有一位教阿美語的主語老師他就是在跑學校的過程中就車禍身亡"},{"start":16343.428,"end":16362.975,"text":"那我們來看他的基本資料他是一週27節目與課而且是任職13校那這個事件發生之後呢其實台中的這些主語老師語推老師也有找我澄清其中有一位70歲任職16校在台中市"},{"start":16363.795,"end":16391.813,"text":"他怎麼跟我講呢委員我的錢變多是很好啦可是我都已經70歲了我也不想跑那麼多學校可是他們找不到老師一直找我一直找我啊說委員這個要怎麼辦你要想辦法所以這個現象其實不是個案而是很平凡的現象但是我想說的是說我們的少數人啊佔據了大部分國家政府的族裔的經費的資源"},{"start":16393.715,"end":16399.571,"text":"我聽過有一些語推老師他的薪水是三萬多但是他的外快六萬多"},{"start":16400.922,"end":16422.973,"text":"因為他到處要去幫忙做翻譯哪一個部會怎麼樣又要去接什麼接什麼接什麼也就是說我們政府提供那麼多的資源但是只有少數人佔據這些大部分的資源那沒有的依然沒有為什麼偏鄉找不到主義老師因為外面都搶得兇得要命他在都會區就好了"},{"start":16423.593,"end":16452.01,"text":"所以偏鄉反而依然還是沒有所以我是希望說是不是第一個有教育部去思考一下我們整體主語經費到底目前多少它的配置的狀況了解一下那我希望是說另外就是提高這個專職主語老師的比例不要讓這些教學支援教師占那麼高八成的比例然後他們的權益他們的風險我覺得這個部分部長是不是我們應該來檢討一下"},{"start":16454.052,"end":16474.919,"text":"謝謝委員提醒好 那另外就是有幾個要精進的就是像現在認證有分中高級 高級 優級啦那我們是希望說分級敘心啦因為沒有道理 大家都一樣我覺得這個其實在教育上其實並不是很好的一個正向的做法那另外就是希望主語教學"},{"start":16475.339,"end":16490.767,"text":"教學資源的老師要訂定一個授課時數的上限那不足的部分沒有關係配合直播教學不要讓他們疲於奔命冒風險那另外我也是希望說我們學校的師培啊師培生培養他的第二主語專長"},{"start":16492.128,"end":16495.493,"text":"那這一些現在像台東大學開的這些俗語的語文教師班我們是不是給他做一個第二專長他也可以教別的科要不然沒有縣市開缺分發不出去那另外就是這些年輕的俗語教師"},{"start":16508.371,"end":16529.807,"text":"提供他們主語職涯的進入讓這些年輕的老師能夠進來才不會讓這些年紀大的老師一直在那個地方撐那還有一個要提醒的就是有學生跟我們反映他讀到高中了高中生跟我們反映他們學校上的主語課跟國中的時候學得一模一樣他說他沒有學更多那就是因為我們沒有把關"},{"start":16530.748,"end":16551.058,"text":"沒有這樣的一個課綱或者是什麼樣的一個機制所以我也希望說目前還是麻煩我們國教署去查一下提供一個書面的資料到底現在原資中心我們叫他們有一個任務叫做要去做課程做教材那我不曉得到底成效如何成果如何"},{"start":16551.818,"end":16579.221,"text":"那再來就是有一個武專生陳情他說因為我們訂定的這個辦法他說是高級中等以下學校所以他是武專生他頻頻跟高一的學生一樣他說學校說那個教育部國教署沒有規定我們要開所以不給他上母語課所以我想這個部分也希望那最後一個部分因為昨天的Trade大家都在討論自然領域教師免修失陪"},{"start":16580.202,"end":16599.242,"text":"那這個部分其實國外已經有在做我也知道教育部是正在研議當中那也把這樣的消息放出來但是我只是要提醒當年我們缺老師的時候民國七十幾年八零年代那時候因為缺老師我們開放學試後的師資班他們是要修兩年四十學分"},{"start":16600.183,"end":16626.492,"text":"但是他們聽說從業界來的只要修八學分這個部分我覺得我們都應該要說明把方案說明清楚避免引起誤會他們要怎麼樣取得資格他們的薪資是怎麼樣可是我覺得我們在說明的時候其實還是要尋求一個最大公約數我們都是為了學生的受教權所以老師的教學品質把關才是最重要的"},{"start":16626.972,"end":16647.633,"text":"如果這些透過嚴格的教學法官他就是很棒的教師我想這個絕對沒有人會去反對所以這個部分我想我也是有點擔憂因為很多人問說那請問如果是專技老師跟老師薪水一樣四五萬他在業界他那麼多張的證照他可以領幾十萬他會願意來參加這個嗎"},{"start":16649.795,"end":16662.974,"text":"那我們為了這個辦法是希望招聘優秀人才進來那結果到最後忙了老半天沒有人想來 也不好所以這個部分我還是希望說教育部能夠再想想好 那部長"},{"start":16663.868,"end":16685.663,"text":"感謝委員的提醒其實我們剛才看到這個大專業校我們現在因為潮池外有一些大專業校理學院 工學院的教授他事實上在大學也很稱職但是只是因為這個可能學校的一個地點或者學校因為這個台灣人口政策所以他階段性的一個退場"},{"start":16686.303,"end":16707.645,"text":"那这些老师我们事实上他是非常专业的我们当然希望说如果学校里边高中职他有STEM老师上的一个不足能够从大学里边这些不管讲师助理教授甚至副教授教授也愿意去我们还边有这个奖金来鼓励他到学校里面"},{"start":16708.246,"end":16725.698,"text":"那事實上就產業上來講我們也看到有許多產業它面臨的挑戰是很大的所以這些有高學歷的在R&D的這些所謂的工程師或是科技人他們可能通常會到45歲甚至50歲以後他就離開"},{"start":16728.84,"end":16757.796,"text":"离开这个职场他不愿意继续卖干但是他们对教育是有热情的他们也是专业的他们跟产业是连结是熟悉的所以这里边怎么样能够为技高能够所用这事实上我们所规范的所想象的都不是外界对不了解的许多的猜测所以我们才希望这个政策沟通事实上还是确保能够事实来言多样性但是它是品质是优秀的"},{"start":16758.596,"end":16777.367,"text":"還是要通過學校他們教師生是他們願意的而不是說我今天有這麼的人我就強塞給哪一個學校我想我們只是把這個steam的私私的來源希望能夠鼓舞有熱情專業的人他願意部長都可以多一些素面答覆好不好謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝主席好"},{"start":16785.644,"end":16808.588,"text":"現在請徐副國委員進行質詢 時間4分鐘謝主席 有請我們鄭部長 高教師 廖市長請部長跟高教師委員好 部長好部長有沒有去過屏東科技大學"},{"start":16809.909,"end":16818.271,"text":"屏東科技大學這個校園很廣 環境很優美但部長知道最近屏東科技大學發生什麼事嗎"},{"start":16821.201,"end":16842.069,"text":"一天內兩個學生在學校裡面車禍身亡兩個年輕生命不見了我想這是非常嚴重的事情那很遺憾的到目前為止對於教育部也好還有品科大也好我們好像都沒有看到比較積極正面的處理方式因為我知道屏東縣政府"},{"start":16844.03,"end":16868.261,"text":"針對這個近年 屏東縣政府警察局的統計 品科大周邊八幡校園裡面發生89起的A2事故 受傷人數高達128人 保齡有嚴重嗎 非常嚴重但是很遺憾 目前為止教育部跟品科大似乎沒有提出比較好的一個對策我這邊也接到很多的學生家長的呈現 所以待會兩點半在我的辦公室我要開一個協調會"},{"start":16869.722,"end":16890.169,"text":"保證 你做一個保證 針對這個事情 你有什麼樣的想法跟建議嗎跟委員報告 比方說我們看到一個年輕人因為行車上的一些安全上 或是發生了一些意外甚至斷送生命 這些比方說癮好人都會不捨 因為北部要靠沒辦法啦"},{"start":16891.689,"end":16899.615,"text":"這個白髮送黑髮這是我們跟委員講的要靠沒辦法將心比心好好要怎麼讓他有一個學生可以有比較安全的這個行的一個這個環境我想我們來責成這個評科大一定要認真把他"},{"start":16907.901,"end":16925.949,"text":"對 起到十八號的車廂旁邊還送我們品格這麼好的航空就這樣發生車禍當然我知道目前大概有幾個方向包含教育部也好包含交通部也好包含國土署大概有幾個方案都可以推但是我們的速度太慢了航空也不夠積極"},{"start":16927.27,"end":16942.74,"text":"所以柏霖希望待會我的協調會開的時候你要交代 包含評課大也好 包含我們高教師也好應該我們就馬上要有明確的一個措施啦不能再看到我們孩子因為這樣生命就不一樣了我想感謝委員的提醒"},{"start":16945.261,"end":16960.927,"text":"這個會後我們一定會立即這個折騰這個評科大整個學校的一個治理一定要有一個具體的一些作為當然我知道最近這兩天校長也好或是他們學生會都有發一些書面的聲明但這聲明"},{"start":16962.347,"end":16980.179,"text":"也不能沒有一個積極的作為聲明也是提醒大家而已但是因為他們裡面校園很闊大家騎車我們要速度會比較快如果沒有做一些的 必要的一些措施來保障學生的安全 我想這個意外還是會發生一定真的要有積極的作為 不然這件辦事拜託一下"},{"start":16981.94,"end":17005.851,"text":"那另外我知道 伯弟兄 我們現在的那個預算 伯弟兄也讀不完所以我也擔心 我們平常我們現在目前還有25所的學校跑道 那個破損要整修那我們還有26所學校 159間的廁所要整修伯弟兄 會不會因為你的預算減少這些原本的一些修繕計畫受到影響"},{"start":17009.622,"end":17031.372,"text":"均衡臺灣本來就是政府既定的一個政策我們怎麼去關照不同的一個財力的一個這一個縣市的一個發展我想教育部在這一個部分我們會這個責無旁貸我們一定跟地方來一起來合作來更積極來協助來改善好 很高興聽到部長給我們正面的答覆"},{"start":17032.193,"end":17045.474,"text":"這個後續要請部長交代一下要不然我們二十五間一定過去一年補三間現在有可能一年就剩兩間而已我們這二十五間可能要10年才能完成對孩子情何以堪這萬一塞下去沒辦法 我想"},{"start":17047.136,"end":17070.233,"text":"柏霖你也很不敢 我想你自己也是一個做過這個學校的好長輩的人 我想你也對這個孩子的這個一個運動效益的環境很重視那最後一個柏霖我之前有帶跟我們武力法委員到我們這個教文委員會到屏東的海生館去考察當然海生館他肩負了海洋教育跟生態保衛的一個重責大任今天館長也有到"},{"start":17071.474,"end":17083.909,"text":"那後續因為鄉村報道過去有鯨魚化石這是一個很重要的一個未來的一個保存的一個很重要的一個重大的一個計畫那是不是在這部分海生館有沒有什麼樣的一個規劃"},{"start":17087.054,"end":17102.234,"text":"請館長回答委員好 謝委員剛才今年5月19日我們到海生館去看現在跟委員報告一下說目前大概在橫沖挖出來的那些金屯的化石目前正在台中的科博館正在展示到2026年"},{"start":17103.456,"end":17125.491,"text":"那後續有關上次委員關心的恆存當地的那些精存的化石因為這一塊涉及到那個文資保護的問題這跟相關法令還有土地的都有限制那這一部分可能會經理委員因為這部分屬於文化部的管轄那如果有文化部出來那後續譬如說加上屏東縣政府還有像我們海生館或部裡面可以一起來大家來"},{"start":17126.651,"end":17151.137,"text":"協調後續看要怎麼樣的進行我們未來也會跨部會保定到時候我們會請文化部把化石專法我們要立法然後我們也希望能夠爭取一個保存一個場域但是在這個場域還沒完全進行我們海生館有一個新的展覽館 展示館明年才會好對 這方面是不是可以優先把台中科博館的晶圓化石可以刷回來給我們屏東最起碼這屏東露出來給我們屏東人看得到保定能不能承諾這一點"},{"start":17153.044,"end":17168.689,"text":"我想這個 我也感謝委員的一個提醒我們朝這個方向來規劃來努力好 謝謝謝謝徐副國委員 謝謝部長 請回座現在請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":17184.895,"end":17192.788,"text":"好 謝主席 也請教育部正部長國教署彭署長好 警部長跟署長高教師廖師長國際師李師長"},{"start":17198.763,"end":17221.042,"text":"剛才戶魁委員提到各縣市因為財政收支方法的關係對於校園環境改善跟教學設備充實過去我想很多國教署同仁都跟我見看過選區五十幾個國中小我都一清二楚每一項建設跑到校舍改建廁所我都一清二楚"},{"start":17221.963,"end":17245.75,"text":"現在第一個問題想請教部長就是說過去的比例按照各縣市的財政狀況會有不同的比例但是大概就是中央出七成到八成對不對地方政府出兩成左右那現在我最近去現勘 哇財政措施修法的關係變成說地方政府要出到六成中央政府教育部國教署只補助四成"},{"start":17247.779,"end":17259.745,"text":"這種有一些對這個財政比較吃緊的這個地方政府他要出六成他拿不出來拿不出來你光有你交易部的四成也沒有辦法推動這個部長針對這個問題該要該怎麼解決呢"},{"start":17264.749,"end":17280.826,"text":"谢谢委员关心确实我们怎么样确保这个地方的这个教育品质许多这个跑到厕所校舍上的一些改善比如比例要怎么样恢复过去的水准跟委员报告就我们基本上还是会朝这一个财力的各县市的一个财务状况"},{"start":17281.286,"end":17295.439,"text":"来做一些这个补助的一个原则大概是这样的一下从八成降到四成因为我们确实中央有部分的一些经费就直接到是不是柴化火灾修法再回来就回到原来的这个救治是不是会比较好"},{"start":17297.653,"end":17321.059,"text":"當然因為從中央整體這個財務的一些調配怎麼樣去關照不同縣市的一些發展財政那有一個均衡台灣的一個我提出這個問題就是說你如果補足四成地方政府沒有辦法拿出另外的六成很多的校園改善就沒有辦法去做是的 我想這當然這也是一個跟署長能夠了解這個問題"},{"start":17322.859,"end":17336.296,"text":"那另外您提到這個老舊廁所那114年到116年就是2025到2027的三年計劃那三年計劃每年變成多少針對老舊廁所的整修一年變多少錢總共有68億總共68億分三年來執行是"},{"start":17339.881,"end":17364.361,"text":"哇那這樣每個縣市分配大概也有非常有限那國中小老舊校室整建現在都回到回到一般這個地方政府嘛對不對是地方政府他在分配啊有時候不像中央那麼有效率所以我很擔心說未來能夠有急迫性的或者有危險性的這部分是不是有可以由教育部接手來專案來補助"},{"start":17366.274,"end":17395.393,"text":"你把它做一個分級啦你懂我意思嗎因為博弟我意思說你那麼多老舊廁所你這個優先性急迫性的部分是不是可以由教育部來優先協助確實我們過去在許多類似這樣的一個都是用跟行政院申請專案特同的一個方式來支持那當然因為財務法有我想我們也會持續來跟行政院來請求這個看能不能有一個專案有一個專案就像老舊廁所一樣"},{"start":17396.775,"end":17407.946,"text":"為什麼我請高教師呢就是說我們半導體這個高教人才的培育這非常重要半導體需要人才那過去三年我不曉得過去三年增加多少的招生員額"},{"start":17409.403,"end":17430.268,"text":"这个针对半导体人才跟委员报告针对这些半导体或者是自通讯的一个产业我们目前可给学校的方式是以外加名额的方式那近三年的总额是多少这个会后是不是我可以提供数据给委员就是每个学年度应该要多因为人才这个都不够"},{"start":17431.627,"end":17459.108,"text":"所以一定要给他多一点的弹性多一点充裕的人才多一点的补助让他们可以开更多的课程来培育半导体的人才跟委员报告除了一般学校开设的这些半导体的一个课程之外我们也有六个学校有半导体的学院那它的相关名额也是你要设定一个总目标比如三年之内你要培育五千或者一万半导体的人才先把这个总目标设定之后再交由分区的大学去公立大学去执行"},{"start":17460.171,"end":17489.21,"text":"是應該由上而下而不是由下而上我覺得這應該從政策層面而不是在執行層面去處理這部分在會後再給我一些資料再麻煩謝謝市長為什麼我會請這個國際師我們外交部我們教育部有外派這個教育組的這些同仁總共有幾個國家的我們的諸外管處有編制外交部的外派人員有幾個國家我們總共有"},{"start":17490.58,"end":17503.935,"text":"应该有29个国家不能说应该有是真的有还是怎么样你这个市长应该要很清楚这个数字我会问你一定要很清楚有几个国家2929个国家我们派住多少同仁去"},{"start":17505.491,"end":17530.564,"text":"目前是有4129個國家我等一下再麻煩您提供這個駐外的管處跟這個人員的配置我們當然去很多國家進行國會外交國會外交外管的同仁也會跟我們反映這個我們重視跟東北亞國家的關係東北亞就兩個國家日本跟南韓日本沒有問題人員充裕韓國相對不夠所以從地緣政治地緣經濟地緣文化"},{"start":17535.575,"end":17547.696,"text":"我覺得不管是文化部或者教育部針對這個韓國駐韓我們代表處的教育組人員能夠增聘的你目前沒有嗎"},{"start":17548.274,"end":17574.405,"text":"目前有韓國我們目前有一位組長一位秘書目前是兩位對那我的理解是說好像不夠你們思考看看全盤去做一個有效率的分配針對他的這個需求必要性跟急迫性去來派這個派駐我們教育部的這個我們同仁到各駐外管處去協助管務的推動是請再請部長時間"},{"start":17577.339,"end":17602.401,"text":"谢谢委员提醒确实我们事实上随着国家的一个国际跟外交上的一些发展还有产业的一个布局我们事实上也跟外交部提到能不能在这一个外交人力上的一个配置能够扩充这事实上也是我们跟外交部在努力合作的一个议题因为许多的人力上它还有人事总处就是说我们整个那一个"},{"start":17603.462,"end":17621.702,"text":"最後一個任務導向不是說一般性的任務你要給他一個特定的任務跟委員報告我們事實上是有針對這個也在思考希望能夠擴充外交部長我們就請做書面回覆了時間講座要把握好那現在請下一位楊瓊英委員進行質詢時間4分鐘謝謝"},{"start":17630.392,"end":17632.656,"text":"謝主席 邀請部長好 請部長五言五案"},{"start":17640.824,"end":17660.379,"text":"我们来讨论教师荒的这个议题我们看到说招不到也留不住我们看到教师荒的这个议题据资料111年到112年这两个年度开出的国小正式教职的职缺都突破4000人"},{"start":17662.2,"end":17688.181,"text":"媒體報導 我們看到今年的8月25號也就是開學前的一週全台公立國中小學總共3303所學校但是缺少了多少1429名的代理教師所以很多的縣市甚至每年還要來搶老師更何況偏鄉的部分"},{"start":17688.681,"end":17704.299,"text":"甚至有偏鄉一開學他沒有辦個正職老師所以他就用代理老師來撐場那還有因為結構性的一個留任的問題所以教師荒可以說是遭不到"},{"start":17705.18,"end":17722.411,"text":"那也留不住所以依據你教育部的一個統計我們全台大概有7.4萬名已經取得到教師license的證照但是他選擇不在學校來教資而投入了其他的產業"},{"start":17723.912,"end":17740.779,"text":"所以我們也看到每年報考教師的人數它也不斷地在下降所以部長在這樣子人力不足的惡性循環之下我們不僅要每個人去分攤這些現有的老師他要去分攤客戶的沉重"},{"start":17743.76,"end":17762.575,"text":"但是校園裡頭還有行政的工作要做再累積加上去所以尤其有一些還要再加班那普遍的過勞這個行業等於它的是招不到也留不住的會越來越惡性循環那在這樣的情況之下本席要請教"},{"start":17763.854,"end":17770.944,"text":"招不到留不住那主要原因是什麼那我們自己政府有什麼樣的一個規劃來解決之呢請說明"},{"start":17775.053,"end":17796.462,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們這個國民教育的一個教育品質包含老師怎麼樣留住老師怎麼樣能夠讓老師能夠更專心的能夠留在學校來指導我們這個新世代的這些學生那我想主要大概有一個兩個問題過去我們中小因為隨著這個草址化的關係所以"},{"start":17797.282,"end":17823.108,"text":"大概過去會曾經會各校會控留8%以上甚至有一段時間控留10% 20%也就是說他不怕老師這一個學校這一個因為沒有學生所以這個原來的現任老師他要保護他然後避免這一個學校退場以後沒有工作這個當然可以理解但是以我們現在來講我想我們"},{"start":17824.048,"end":17846.838,"text":"整個退休的一個制度跟代理教師過去跟代理教師 正式教師他的薪水事實上是有落差的現在幾乎都是其一的所以我們現在開始會及早布局下個禮拜我們就會跟22個縣市教育局處來開始來討論不要再保留用代理教師而是用正式教師"},{"start":17850.18,"end":17865.952,"text":"也就是你已經也體悟到認知到這個問題的嚴重性所以你們選擇的剛剛你說的方式下個禮拜開始跟22個縣市去做討論但是本席的提問也就是說你目前有7萬4"},{"start":17867.873,"end":17884.156,"text":"已經領有教師資格的這些人但他沒有在我們的教學體制裡頭這些都是人才你的條件 你的誘因特別在偏鄉方面要怎麼樣去解決"},{"start":17884.977,"end":17905.412,"text":"偏鄉研究民我們開始開工會的專班過去工會是各個大學只有一個兩個他不會專心為這些工會醫師就從學校的根源開始工會的專班所以我也請你本集提出招不到留不住那麼老師這麼辛苦過勞"},{"start":17907.173,"end":17927.218,"text":"以及業務的增加你要怎麼樣去解決這個問題他的住宿他今天到學校去在偏鄉他還要居住另外付出一個謝謝部長你所提出的甚至住宿等所以本期希望就針對於偏鄉教宿的留任提出必須好好去討論 好嗎把研究的方式給本期"},{"start":17931.059,"end":17943.603,"text":"把研究好的方式給本席尤其特別針對於偏鄉的人才的這個留任專案要怎麼樣去做整體性的一個調整好 我們先請謝謝謝謝謝謝韓瓊英委員 謝謝部長這個是大問題絕對應該在書面的報告再做一個回覆好 謝謝我們現在請林德福委員質詢請林德福委員質詢"},{"start":17960.273,"end":17988.738,"text":"林德服務委員質詢林伯伯服務委員不在請嚴匡衡委員質詢請嚴匡衡委員質詢請嚴匡衡委員質詢嚴匡衡委員不在請張雅玲委員質詢現在主席有請部長警政部長"},{"start":17996.035,"end":18006.839,"text":"好 部長好我想跟部長先來討論有關於實驗教育的一個題目等我一下喔好就是說呢我們這幾年從107年開始那個實驗教育的學生成長1.75%可是呢"},{"start":18013.101,"end":18035.459,"text":"特殊教育的學生是成長153%你可以明顯地從這個圖表看到這個比例是非常非常劇烈的攀升那其實就代表是說實驗教育這麼多年來它其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生那為什麼呢主要是因為這個師生比比較低家長認為可能比較可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧"},{"start":18036.34,"end":18061.655,"text":"以及他們也認為教學彈性多元可能比較能夠符合這個特殊需求學童的一個學習的需求這樣子那再來就是說他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子"},{"start":18062.916,"end":18074.758,"text":"都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這個態度上面你是認可的嗎"},{"start":18075.865,"end":18102.312,"text":"是的 我想因為確實陳儒委員剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助"},{"start":18102.812,"end":18123.875,"text":"部長我先跟你重回歷史一下複述一下歷史其實這個題目在去年6月就已經問過了因為我們承接這麼多的孩子可是我們給的社交資源非常非常實驗教育的特效資源是非常非常不足的其實已經一整年過去了我114年預算提案又再度的講到這件事情我想剛剛部長也提到說我們可以給予支持"},{"start":18124.655,"end":18151.137,"text":"我希望這個支持是更務實的支持也就是說我們今年我收到的預算回文就是說我們有邀請到跟地方來討論我們有跟相關團體討論今天我們是不是可以來討論時程因為已經給了一年的時間我們可不可以在年底前年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求我們來編列經費支持我們現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬"},{"start":18153.618,"end":18174.344,"text":"現在每個學生已經有編列所以是說明年就會開始執行嗎一四學年現在就在執行了會後我們把資料給委員我們有兩件事情在做 第一個等一下 但是之前是講的是低收入跟中低收入戶啊特殊需求的學生那個時候是四月的時候"},{"start":18175.525,"end":18186.82,"text":"實際上在8月1號以後就執行了那麼第二點地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政實驗教育的部分這個學年度做了兩項新增的工作會後我們整理給委員"},{"start":18192.287,"end":18206.895,"text":"好謝謝 也非常謝謝教育部對於特殊教育的在實驗教育面的特殊生的一個資源的投注那接下來我要請教就是關於才化法的影響 特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分那"},{"start":18209.096,"end":18235.893,"text":"首先呢因為我想大家今天早上也非常多國民黨的委員都非常關心到底這個才化法對於地方的影響到底是什麼那我自己這段時間也遇到了許多的這樣的團體都在問我說那個午餐費為什麼中央不出等等的還有這個偏鄉教育還有那個教師的一些薪資補貼那會不會出會不會有影響等等的所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做一個請教就是說"},{"start":18237.014,"end":18260.816,"text":"我知道以營養務生來說其實這個在台北跟新北都說他們會去編列了但是呢台中盧市長還是說他不會去編列他是說他財政充裕一定願意做那我想問一下我們是不是已經跟地方都已經溝通過了呢這點我想要再次確認一下是不是已經都確認過了"},{"start":18264.292,"end":18293.135,"text":"市委跟委員報告我想說這個財化法有關於一些跟地方之間的財源調配的事情包括在行政院或行政院主席總署從8月中的時候其實都已經有召開過4次的協調會議所以對方大家 地方都已經溝通所以都已經清楚的傳遞這個訊息了對嗎對 地方政府應該都知道有哪一些的補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔了必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤"},{"start":18294.534,"end":18314.2,"text":"好喔那我想就是說外面有傳報導也是說教育部的預算比跟今年度相比我們減少了908億元那教育部給我的是79億元那我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡然後還有這個到底這個減少的地方到底是在哪些部分可不可以簡單做個說明"},{"start":18317.802,"end":18337.416,"text":"是跟委員說明一下就是這裡面提到的減少到那個900億元他大概就是因為沒有算到就是行政院還有分配給交易部的一塊813億元他們沒有去算到那個部分就對了了解所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛對不對那79億元更是哪些項目呢簡單來說"},{"start":18341.963,"end":18368.398,"text":"79億元的話裡面大概最大的項目就是也是針對地方政府的補助地方政府的補助有減少了160幾億元這是裡面最大的一個項目但是其實地方聽起來就是地方拿了蠻多錢走的嘛那我覺得現在應該要問的是說那地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛對不對拿了這些錢因為據我所知台北跟新北都可以編為什麼台中不能編那據我所知呢好像現在台中"},{"start":18368.998,"end":18387.003,"text":"現在已經在審相關的預算我說各縣市政府已經在審預算可是台中好像並沒有把這些新增的部分加進去我覺得最要去問的是那到底台中市你們要拿這些錢去做什麼為什麼要苦孩子那再來還有一個我覺得我也想跟部長請教就是說如果說今天"},{"start":18389.027,"end":18400.202,"text":"我們先講到這個我們聽起來就是如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話那受害的就是孩子我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎"},{"start":18403.476,"end":18418.956,"text":"跟我們報告確實當時因應財務法我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局做這樣的一個討論就是說當教育部原來在一般補助裡邊行政已經下去了等於"},{"start":18419.657,"end":18439.455,"text":"这里边原来是包含我们原来政策的推动这个我们会告诉他哪些金额对 我知道但是他不做呢我们还有什么手段可以来守护我们的孩子吗跟地方县市教育局署首长提醒他们说这些钱本来行政就用一般补助下去了那这时候你"},{"start":18441.276,"end":18460.184,"text":"聽起來好像就是勸要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實編在地方的教育事務上我想這個我們是也有意思的一個但是我聽起來我覺得好像是柔性的勸說那我提供一個想法給部長來做一個討論就是說特別我關心這個偏鄉學生的教育權"},{"start":18461.084,"end":18485.441,"text":"因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕甚至偏鄉教育的專業教師人力的補足這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費但是接下來從明年開始我們到底我們的中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢那我們114年補助的18億那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":18489.193,"end":18514.5,"text":"跟委員報告在偏鄉這一個部分基本上我們教育部還是會有一個比較大的來一個協助譬如說我最近到各偏鄉地區去走那我們也發現了要讓老師留下來就學生的老師的宿舍有一些年久失修沒錯那我們怎麼樣優先來補助對這一個來改善我想最近我不管到花蓮到屏東我們都發現這樣相同的問題"},{"start":18516.681,"end":18531.553,"text":"包含台東我們都會優先來協助地方來中小學來做一些教室宿舍的改善但是聽起來說我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例維持一定的一個優先來做協助"},{"start":18534.335,"end":18559.054,"text":"好那部長我也想請教就是說如果說我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法就是地方教育經費最低比例來避免教育被犧牲讓這件事情來入法才能夠去確保我們的教育經費分到了地方之後不會受到影響這個部分部長是不是可以去做一個研議來思考一下"},{"start":18560.814,"end":18587.786,"text":"委員報告教育這一個全國的教育的總預算它事實上教育經費編列管理辦法它本來就有一定的地方的部分也有嗎有個比例的規範嗎全國家地方它是有一個規範那當然我們目前也有一套的一個這一個中央編多少地方編多少的一套的計算方式但是我也必須要跟委員承認因為財化法以後這整個秩序"},{"start":18588.346,"end":18602.896,"text":"亂掉了所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範看怎麼樣有一個更好的支撐這個全國教育政策的規模跟地方所以我們才會覺得說是不是應該要來重新的而且必須要讓它更明確來去確保"},{"start":18606.322,"end":18635.28,"text":"請這一個我們這一個相關的委員會再研議這一個部分好那這部分我可以再跟我再跟那個部長在之後可能再進一步的討論那最後給我一點時間就是有關於最近新制上路的這個教師升星條試駕啦那其實有一些家長就會擔心說這個到時候老師會不會一直請假然後孩子的教學會不會有任何的影響啊不過其實我去跟一些校長在確認是說大家好像普遍來說就是覺得說這是一個新制啦新制我們就先上路那我想但是"},{"start":18635.66,"end":18661.738,"text":"校長也有一些擔心就是未來上路有一些狀況有沒有一些檢討滾動的修正的一個方法或是一個會議來去確認說到時候有什麼問題的話大家可以再來做一些調整這樣子我們是不是有相關的滾動性會議的修正感謝委員的一個提醒本來身心調適下就是用來支撐老師但是這個制度剛開始我也相信我們老師他本身是專業"},{"start":18663.419,"end":18678.276,"text":"對學生的一個照顧包括他的責任我相信他一定會有一個相對好的一個考量到個人的需求跟這個學童的一個照顧但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題我當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的一個"},{"start":18678.336,"end":18705.135,"text":"我想我們就這個學期結束之後好不好我們來做一個檢討看有沒有要再修正的地方那最後我也想要爭取再給我30秒而已我只是想要爭取我們現在公立幼兒園的教保員是不是也可以適用這樣子的制度因為現在老師有可是學生那個教保員沒有那一園兩制兩個世界我自己會認為說對於這個現場的教保員來說心情可能會不是那麼舒適啦是不是有可能把這個公立教保員也納入呢"},{"start":18708.237,"end":18737.008,"text":"跟委員報告教保員的部分目前來講是適用勞基法我知道那這個部分我們在跟勞動部這邊因為當時在研議身心調適教的過程當中是有找勞動部來的那這個部分涉及到整個他們勞動部的一個政策這個我們在跟勞動部這邊講那我大概多久再來追你們相關的進度呢還是你們多久可以再給我們再給我們一個相關的說明應該一個月內應該可以好 謝謝你喔 謝謝"},{"start":18738.444,"end":18756.557,"text":"好 謝謝張雅琳委員 謝謝行政官員請回座現在請林月琴委員質詢時間4分鐘主席好 麻煩我們的教育部部長請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":18766.341,"end":18795.08,"text":"部長好今天我們要談的事實上是我上任以來一直在追蹤關心的幼兒園發生不當對待事件就想問政府到底有沒有真正做到流程統一專業認定為什麼這樣提最近我辦公室處理了幾起案子包括彰化的幼兒園台北市萬華區的幼兒園跟台北市文山區的幼兒園案件都再次凸顯不當對待的處理案件兩個制度事實上都是失靈的地方政府各自為政認定委員"},{"start":18795.86,"end":18822.023,"text":"會呢事實上也是處理的相當混亂為什麼這樣提呢第一為什麼我說各地方政府各自為政處理流程的荒腔走板因為教育部自己在4月的時候說要提供22縣市的一個不當對待案件的處理手冊我辦公室當天也就參加了這樣子的一個會議結果教育部到了10月2日還在回覆說手冊還在外部審查還沒有送印"},{"start":18822.683,"end":18842.68,"text":"本來就希望依循這個手冊然後讓地方政府有個依循結果六個月過去了還是沒有辦法有一個東西出來那部長真的半年過去了孩子都長大了手冊還沒生出來沒有統一手冊的話真的地方政府就各自為政有的呢給心理諮商有的不給像去年培若敏達案不給然後今年呢文山案給"},{"start":18843.28,"end":18857.128,"text":"然後呢今年的右家案又不給我就不知道那個標準在怎麼同一個台北市就已經看有兩種不同的一種模式在那監視器的調閱也是教育部之前那個韓市明明寫說"},{"start":18858.849,"end":18887.021,"text":"家長可以以行政程序法第46條調閱可是彰化發生這樣子的不當對待案的時候記者會的時候教育部自己又說這地方政府有拒絕的權利到底為什麼一下說可以一下說不行你們當初又跟我們講說按照行政程序法第46條可以後來又說不行所以部長這樣的行政速度你覺得合理嗎部長你覺得這個行政署長先讓我問部長"},{"start":18888.141,"end":18901.521,"text":"這種行政速度你覺得合理嗎是 當然我想很多的這個兒童權益的一個保護它不應該應該要縮短它的一個處理的一個期限所以是不是你們手冊盡快在這個月底給出來好"},{"start":18903.283,"end":18920.96,"text":"那孩子被不當對待的時候連看畫面都被擋下來說家長應該怎麼報案怎麼求償怎麼追責家長到底該找誰這樣子制度不是保護孩子而且保護施虐者就是到底他該找誰否則的話就變成說他根本就是沒有辦法去做處理"},{"start":18921.881,"end":18948.336,"text":"接著達到第二個部分也就是我上任前就有參與的就是我上任後也一直關心你的認定委員會的制度一直到今年1月修法到現在還是漏洞百出為什麼今年修法後教育部要求各縣市重新調查不當對待認定委員會名單並讓委員們去接受訓練這個很好可是截至到9月16號國教署卻還在等金門屏東補教"},{"start":18949.136,"end":18972.438,"text":"我不知道為什麼金門屏東到現在還沒有辦法進來從去年就要求已經一年多了所以部長要問的是制度已經上路九個月部長還在等補件嗎這一個我想在程序上如果這樣的一個瑕疵我想我們來改善是 我想署長是不是要再補充說說明"},{"start":18974.179,"end":19000.9,"text":"剛剛那個有兩點一個是監視器調閱那邊委員會有拜託你一起來合作現在在法務部今天我們還再去一次10月底以前會訂完當時我們7月初的時候就講10月底以前會訂出來另外有兩個不見的事包含那個手冊跟這個認定委員會還有兩個縣市的這個事情大概這個月在7天內一定會把它全部完成好 希望署長你這個"},{"start":19003.202,"end":19026.637,"text":"好 時間點 務必能夠盡快 為什麼因為像張文化的案子同一批認定委員同一批我要再三強調第一次調查的時候說這不構成違法事件第二次卻變成情節重大而且本來零次額虐結果後來變成158次這落差太大 都有看監視器為什麼是零到158這個真的是行政笑話還是專業失靈我不太懂 就是"},{"start":19027.778,"end":19048.849,"text":"請問部長這樣的落差是調查程序出了問題還是認定的標準根本不一致所以如果是認定標準不一致的話因為時間關係我希望你們這邊可不可以有一個所謂的歷史框架讓各地方政府可以依循否則的話會地方政府同一套認定委員會怎麼認定出來的東西"},{"start":19049.389,"end":19067.25,"text":"是不一樣的我希望能夠是回復到讓孩子的權益能夠被保障最後還是希望10月底能夠完成這個手冊還有你的認定委員會金門屏東趕快請他補件補上然後提供給我們我們希望認定委員會事實上是兒童"},{"start":19068.251,"end":19091.625,"text":"老師的權益事實上是都要照顧到所以委員應該要各辦希望你能夠督促我各地方的委員事實上變成是這個樣子謝謝委員提醒確實這樣的一個認定落差那麼大我相信他一定有盡好的一個必要謝謝部長的回應那謝謝林月琦委員部長請回座我們現在請謝依鳳委員質詢謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員"},{"start":19098.158,"end":19104.346,"text":"謝依鳳委員不在下一位洪孟楷委員請質詢主席謝謝麻煩請部長有請部長"},{"start":19116.795,"end":19146.044,"text":"好 部長辛苦了委員好不會被冷卻應該我先follow一下剛剛委員有關心的這個教師身心調適假因為一方面上路之後有校長也反應有點擔心說會不會造成說這個校園管理的部分但一方面我想身心調適假它是一個正向看待就是要讓教師們能夠有一個身心調適所以如果說老師請身心調適假的話會不會影響他的年度考積"},{"start":19147.701,"end":19173.483,"text":"這當然我們依法不會影響他的考機一定要明確的宣示而且不能拒絕是 因為本席剛剛在衛環委員會質詢勞動部我問這個航空公司最近有那個請假聽說連航空公司都說請病假跟試假都要扣那個考機我想勞動部應該要處理勞動部的部分但是拉回來我們自己教師的考機不會受有沒有請身心調試假而影響"},{"start":19174.404,"end":19193.726,"text":"這我們也跟地方一定會跟地方縣市教育局處還有學校在這個部分要說得非常清楚好那另外這深信討試駕上路之後也會滾動式檢討我們也希望是說來釐清一下說會不會未來造成說校園裡面的一些管理啊或者說人人手的一個部分好不好"},{"start":19195.167,"end":19212.766,"text":"這再請我們滾動檢討來再來我有看到是說我們現在希望就去年我們有做公聽會就是針對這個學校高中以下學校學生攜帶行動載具也就手機啊到校管理的一個準則那本來是說9月會提出來後來又有點"},{"start":19214.161,"end":19236.726,"text":"確實跟我們報告因為確實國中以下大概共識很強沒有問題現在對高中高中子這裡邊確實他還有一些因為包含學生團體認為他們還是比較成熟所以他們應該相對給他們有一個更大的空間但是我們本來當時的一個規劃就是授權學校"},{"start":19237.426,"end":19265.057,"text":"跟老師還有家長還有學生一起討論然後訂定以後這個學校各學校因地制宜他去訂立一些規範因為確實手機依賴是有彈性的來做調整但是大方向跟原則是希望是國小國中的部分有比較多的 等於說國小國中這邊有比較明顯的一個規範但是還是學校裡面去討論一個管理的一個辦法"},{"start":19266.477,"end":19286.73,"text":"那高中這邊希望能夠有更大的一個台性但是我們還是要把修正的這個草案出來能夠讓各學校全國學校來去做了解我們現在到的原則不然這不就是又走回頭路又回到原點了嗎因為其實現行還沒有這個我們本來9月要施行出來之前現行就是讓各學校自己決定是 沒有錯就我"},{"start":19288.851,"end":19308.726,"text":"我本身一个教育的工作者我在看国际的许多的研究事实上我是非常担心我们青少年新世代他们因为手机上所造成的一些负面影响对他身心未来的发展事实上是不利的所以我们也希望说学校里边怎么样"},{"start":19309.406,"end":19332.192,"text":"不增加學校額外的一些負擔而能夠透過一個民主化的機制建立一個共識有一個大家共同尊重部長點到跟本席過去的一個研究以及觀察也是一樣因為看到越來越多一些歐美國家本席記得去年的時候我也在這邊質詢過您就說人家國家已經有在做了我們不用花成本去實驗組跟對照組那我們就應該去參考人家國家"},{"start":19334.193,"end":19358.511,"text":"禁止使用手機之後有什麼樣好的地方以及有什麼樣不好的地方來去做我們政策的一個研擬甚至本市有注意到2026年南韓都已經有通過法令說要求學校高中以下的學校是禁止使用手機這個是南韓已經通過三讀法令通過所以說我們他三支持可以錯工我們應該要來了解這樣的狀況"},{"start":19360.152,"end":19373.419,"text":"進一步什麼時候我們可以把這個相關的新的草案這邊來提出來我們要不要公布一個新的草案還是說其實就這樣子放著因為本來是說9月要推出"},{"start":19375.302,"end":19401.423,"text":"我想這個我們再來跟這個地方裡面有一個更大的一個共識我們一定會提出來因為確實像澳洲的新南威爾斯有超過一萬個的這個中小學校長他們也都看到手機的一個這個一定程度的這個管理的時候對學生的學習的專注還有學習的表現還有許多的這個行為規劃事實上都在往好的畫面在發展好"},{"start":19401.943,"end":19425.628,"text":"所以本學還是就是說教育部這邊還是要有一個比較積極的態度以及讓各學校有規則可循來去做那最後一分鐘因為有提到是說早上您也提到手機使用是一回事但是內容是一回事您也提到是說短影音對於學生的這個發展其實是不利的尤其太早年齡其實我們也看到確實有這樣的科學數據有許多的內容"},{"start":19426.368,"end":19455.548,"text":"但是如果說講短影音的話它就不只只限我現在沒有幫任何一家公司講話但是如果說是講短影音的話就不只只限TikTok是它還包括其實YouTube它現在也有推短影音是包括Facebook其實它現在也有短影音因為我們是考量它的內容是所以本席現在要問的是說因為早上我在交通委員會為質詢速發部長我問說你進不進 知不支持禁止TikTok速發部長講的是說其實它是言論自由但是如果以保護兒少的觀點"},{"start":19456.888,"end":19474.938,"text":"我要求他找衛福部找教育部來溝通他是說建議是校園裡面的公有網路用屏障的方式讓學生不要用公有網路能夠連結上TikTok但如果說是保護兒少的話那就不只僅限TikTok"},{"start":19475.518,"end":19498.072,"text":"政治包含有一些交友軟體我想部長你有看過很多國外的研究更了解其實有一些交友網站上面他沒有設限的情況下有人實驗貼一個12歲左右的女同女學童的大頭照結果短短說一天裡面收到上百通的成年男子的交友邀約"},{"start":19499.053,"end":19513.235,"text":"那其實某種程度上這在還沒有年齡到成熟的一個情況下這是一個交友陷阱也是一個潛在的危險那是不是應該也要針對這一些比較有可能危險的APP或說應該要分解的APP"},{"start":19514.556,"end":19538.766,"text":"討論出來在校園裡面的公有網路裡面應該該禁止要禁止感謝委員提醒確實我們目前是針對有一些不宜的或者不適當內容只要有人有這個檢舉我們會在系統上就直接把它做一些隔離但這個我講的是全學全台灣學校那我們要再怎麼檢舉是跟教育部檢舉嗎還是"},{"start":19540.567,"end":19541.949,"text":"對啦 部長所以本席現在講的是說"},{"start":19553.018,"end":19570.897,"text":"譬如說Ttalk其實它也是一個平台給各方使用者丟內容所以我現在不是探討內容的部分因為探討內容探討不完但是現在我講的是說如果說你們認為是短影音保護兒少那可能短影音的幾個APP都要一起來做檢討"},{"start":19571.618,"end":19596.606,"text":"但我講如果以保護兒少為前提最出發點的話那其實不只短影音的平台還包括交友平台尤其是交友平台我本身是兩個女兒的父親我其實當然男童女童都一樣我們要以保護兒少的立場的話我們就應該去看到問題來去做根本的預防所以說有一些APP才會有年齡分級制"},{"start":19598.075,"end":19608.889,"text":"能不能部長 速發部衛福部跟教育部三個部會來做一個討論針對哪一些APP確實即便它上架"},{"start":19610.077,"end":19633.666,"text":"是年齡可能是六歲以上就可以使用但是他真的有潛在的危險的部分來去做一個討論那適時的應該要遮蔽應該要訂出一個規範跟委員這邊很快回應就是有關於那個抖音跟小紅書是因為行政院有頒布就是國家自動安全的一個原則"},{"start":19634.286,"end":19658.98,"text":"所以是根據這一個因為它是大陸製的一個自動產品然後蓋委員提的的確是就是說在不當內容防護的部分因為我們台灣學術網路有一個通報機制所以只要不當內容都會屏蔽然後會後我們會照委員所指示的就是所建議的就是跟因為兒少的這個權益跟健康是衛福部所主管所以我們"},{"start":19659.84,"end":19678.473,"text":"會主動聯繫衛福部看看就這件事情還有速發部就這件事情我們怎麼樣做更好的合作好那再麻煩部長也請這邊積極的一個辦理那年底前我還在追這個議題也希望有成果都請讓百姓辦公室了解謝謝部長謝謝彭邦凱委員還有謝謝部長請回座現在請翁曉琳委員質詢"},{"start":19690.134,"end":19718.846,"text":"翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員不在下一位蘇清泉委員請質詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下一位請林楚英委員質詢林楚英委員林楚英委員"},{"start":19720.376,"end":19739.6,"text":"林楚英委員不在請蔡易瑜委員質詢蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在請羅明財委員質詢羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員"},{"start":19746.401,"end":19758.475,"text":"羅明財委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員質詢鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在"},{"start":19762.442,"end":19789.224,"text":"那今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另有林德福高金素梅翁曉林委員提出書面質詢好就交委員會再交給轉交各部會轉交教育部那今天的會議做以下的決定報告及質詢就完畢了委員所提的書面質詢或是相關資料就會列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":19790.585,"end":19806.619,"text":"對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆好 報告委員會今天議程就處理完畢了現在散會謝謝大家 謝謝大家辛苦了"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}