{"error":false,"id":["169441"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169441,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169441","日期":"2026-05-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-20T09:56:53+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-20T10:07:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79bae41d7a34d96ecfb248366f596cea4852f1cbc05507f2af634dff3bbbc96e0e24c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:56:53 - 10:07:35","會議時間":"2026-05-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲與公股行庫董事長及金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「公股金融機構數位轉型、人力招募、員工權益及中長期整併規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案行政院歲入預算有關中央銀行股息紅利繳庫部分、財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案有關賦稅署、臺北國稅局、高雄國稅局、北區國稅局及所屬、中區國稅局及所屬、南區國稅局及所屬歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n【5月20日及21日二天一次會】\n【預算提案截止時間：5月21日（四）下午5時】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.072218750000001,"end":8.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.637218750000002,"end":25.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.558468750000003,"end":31.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.367843750000002,"end":33.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.603468750000005,"end":41.729093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.32846875,"end":43.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.10846875,"end":52.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.27659375,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.71471875,"end":53.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.70159375,"end":60.156593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.94159375,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.57784375,"end":65.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.24409375,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.14221875,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.89721875000001,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.30221875000001,"end":73.69034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.26409375,"end":74.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.25971875,"end":84.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.76034375,"end":86.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.78534375000001,"end":88.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.78909375,"end":90.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.63284375,"end":92.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.45971875000001,"end":93.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.50159375000001,"end":93.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.29471875,"end":94.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.73346875,"end":95.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.52659375,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.74159375,"end":98.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.56784375000001,"end":102.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.62659375000001,"end":106.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.52471875,"end":107.84534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.11534375000001,"end":108.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.65096875,"end":110.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.67596875000001,"end":113.78534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.49846875,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.39284375000001,"end":114.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.47721875,"end":114.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.73034375,"end":130.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.36909375000002,"end":134.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.62596875,"end":138.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.37659375,"end":141.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.17784375000002,"end":152.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.93096875,"end":165.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.18221875,"end":167.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.00471875000002,"end":175.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.91909375,"end":179.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.03659375,"end":183.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.06971875000002,"end":185.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.34784375,"end":189.19971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.26721875,"end":192.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.59159375000002,"end":196.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.09721875000002,"end":198.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.66221875000002,"end":201.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.75471875000002,"end":220.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.23034375,"end":209.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.35596875000002,"end":215.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.05159375000002,"end":240.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.26221875000002,"end":221.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.05534375000002,"end":223.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.02971875,"end":224.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.63034375,"end":243.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.95096875000002,"end":242.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.48659375000003,"end":243.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.50346875000002,"end":243.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.52034375000002,"end":243.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.90846875000003,"end":261.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.71159375,"end":263.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.43721875,"end":263.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.80409375,"end":273.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.08659375,"end":265.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.62596875,"end":272.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.97971875,"end":280.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.10596875000005,"end":292.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.59034375000005,"end":283.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.06096875000003,"end":294.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.58409375,"end":297.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.73971875,"end":302.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.35534375000003,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.02096875,"end":372.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.88409375000003,"end":388.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.24471875,"end":391.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.64534375000005,"end":388.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.21471875000003,"end":395.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.52659375,"end":431.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.64846875,"end":396.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.32346875,"end":396.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.69034375,"end":399.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.15409375,"end":401.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.22971875,"end":403.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.71034375000005,"end":405.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.54159375,"end":436.73909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.22846875000005,"end":438.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.15221875000003,"end":442.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.16846875000005,"end":447.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.28596875000005,"end":450.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.74534375,"end":456.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.95534375000005,"end":462.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.67159375000006,"end":465.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.05096875000004,"end":468.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.07159375000003,"end":477.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.71159375,"end":479.24721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.56784375,"end":480.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.50846875,"end":496.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.47221875,"end":497.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.58596875,"end":518.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.04471875,"end":508.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.40721875,"end":509.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.31284375,"end":537.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.0590937500001,"end":523.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.94909375,"end":524.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.3647187500001,"end":541.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.9128437500001,"end":542.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.96721875,"end":550.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.1697187500001,"end":543.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.01721875,"end":547.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.7722187500001,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.33971875,"end":567.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.9384687500001,"end":622.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.50721875,"end":572.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.95471875,"end":629.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.49409375,"end":636.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.10534375,"end":633.8559687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.107,"end":33.59,"text":"委員好部長好我想今天討論最多應該就是有關於這個國票金的案子那到底會不會公民病還是民工病到底是病還是被病這其實今天要討論一下但現階段來說可能是言之過早眼前要先面對的是委託書收了怎麼樣目前我得到的訊息我們關股這邊收到委託書那個部長你有掌握嗎"},{"start":36.103,"end":53.677,"text":"這個部分是我們各泛工股事業他們去因為我們財政部但是財政部是總操盤手你有把握嗎是有把握把握我們的希望是股東大會能夠順利完成你沒有掌握你怎麼把握呢到底現在幾%所以幾%多少這個部分因為是泛豐股他們去做的你要會診啊你都沒有講不出數據我都查得到8.7%啊你居然會查不到到底幾%"},{"start":67.824,"end":88.389,"text":"8.7數不數實啊你都沒有掌握你怎麼把握委託書是一個重要的關卡如果民間的所有這些股東要串聯起來要給你翻桌是有可能的不是說你當初協議了8331就可以完成"},{"start":90.882,"end":97.91,"text":"講一個數字到底多少還在齊齊處處9%那民間的大概有幾%要掌握敵情啊票還沒有開出來到底不曉得誰是敵誰是友啊怎樣 查出來沒有"},{"start":111.724,"end":120.812,"text":"沒有啊 我們不會去查人家的你要掌握市場的狀況來 不是查他啊你沒有掌握 你怎麼如何把握這問題在這邊嘛你如果8331被翻盤了 有沒有這個可能性部長 有沒有信心 有沒有可能造血一走"},{"start":131.502,"end":152.522,"text":"是同和競選啊同和競選所以說按照協議進行不會有任何問題也是當時按照股權的實力去做配置的如果是同和競選按照這種可能性不會變的話那麼已經確定一個態勢嘛也就是說接下來國票它目前的趨勢就是供股化嘛對不對"},{"start":153.991,"end":179.137,"text":"如果是供股化的話 大家不免會遇到說下一階段有沒有可能國有化如果有國有化的話 就不可能變成張宇的那種模式了嘛張宇你是被病欸 國票你是病人家欸怎麼會可以忍同類比呢 完全不同啊剛剛那個張宇呢 董事長上來 起起之之烏烏搞不清楚狀況我跟你說 如果說可以病國票 為什麼不能病"},{"start":180.117,"end":197.889,"text":"有兩種可能性嘛一種是規模化的可能一種是互補性的考量規模化的考量的部分呢你可以跟核庫併你可以招風併把規模擴大嘛另外一個互補性呢你就是可以跟彰銀併或者是跟台企銀併把它形成另一個淨控"},{"start":200.047,"end":219.937,"text":"這兩種可能性對不對部長我想委員剛剛的一個提示都很好這都是先要把國票基金的一個經營權穩定以後強化公司治理後續讓它怎麼樣的經營規模更具有效益這是下階段的考量當然委員剛剛提的這幾項都非常重要也是我們很重要的一個參考規模化嘛不然就互補化嘛對不對就這兩種考量嘛主要是這樣子嘛"},{"start":225.74,"end":240.434,"text":"所以所有的這個從公股化到國有化的情況底下這個走的方向基本上可能就會形成一個比較大的規模的一個公股的一個金控或者是一個新的金控嘛最後的結局是這樣子嘛"},{"start":241.841,"end":261.258,"text":"讓他政治有規模嘛 對不對如果是這樣子的話關鍵的職務大家比較關注的部分還是那副董事長那人事的安排接下來副董事長他裡頭的權責會不會化解外界的疑慮這恐怕是之後 更之後部長 您的智慧要去化解了"},{"start":261.798,"end":282.999,"text":"你會不會考慮面對這個問題我想會 我們也會考慮因為這是公司內部的治理當然會等於經營團隊組成以後你要國有化就是你的責任啊不會變成國有化啦不是啦 我是新國有化啦應該是新國有化佔比是50%以下啦我的概念是這樣子啦是啦 不會變國有"},{"start":284.14,"end":306.497,"text":"不是國有化不是百分之百的台營化啦我知道啦 我概念上是這樣子啦好不好如果是這樣子的話你也會注重這職務的安排嘛對不對職務的安排就是副董的職務安排那角色嘛你剛剛講是這樣子嘛這個部分我想還是回到他們公司內部的營業公司會去治理這個公股就是你們管理你們還是要去關心啦好 接下來那個部長署長請回啦那個部長有關於這營業稅的後續齁"},{"start":311.121,"end":324.338,"text":"本席在修了之後有受到許許多多的懲罰也就是說目前法條上營業稅的部分只有包括職業表演跟電影的部分約莫稅損大概只有17%"},{"start":327.262,"end":353.818,"text":"但事實上真正的關鍵其實在財政部公告的這個稅增的這個項目裡頭有高達20項而這20項當中呢簡單的講就是說你在外面聽演唱會不用繳稅可是呢你到了飯店KTV卡拉OK唱歌你自己唱反而要繳稅然後你看電影呢可能不用繳稅可是你自己跑去看NTV呢反而要繳稅然後你去網咖呢現在也沒有剩下幾個你網咖上網"},{"start":356.58,"end":371.634,"text":"用電腦搞不好也要繳稅也就是說呢到底這個公告的事項有沒有可能把這20項給廢除掉或何時廢除或何時再公告這個才是真正落實這一次娛樂稅法免稅的一個最重要的一個關鍵部長請說"},{"start":372.955,"end":380.256,"text":"是 謝謝委員我想以六歲的修法完成那後續對於財政部公告的一個課稅項目我們也盡快會在這個配合整個環境的一個變化來做檢討讓我們的稅是更合理化這部分我們會盡快再做已經也已經在做了盡快會把這邊免稅的部分把它做一個公告嗎做這個有關公告的項目重新去做調整我想這個部分會做那署長點頭這麼用力我就比較放心了是 謝謝委員幫外界一再陳情到底什麼時候"},{"start":401.84,"end":423.255,"text":"請盡快好不好免得我們被質疑還有一個部分想要拿出來跟部長做討論的部長我想最近常常看到新聞財政部一直在提醒這一期的統一發票千萬大獎快到期了我大概每隔一段時間就會看到這個新聞結果一查我有點嚇到統一發票從100年開始開出1250個1000萬的特別獎"},{"start":431.7,"end":436.483,"text":"居然高達累期幾張你知道嗎?304張到期沒有人領喔304張喔就等於4張就有一張沒有人領喔"},{"start":443.326,"end":462.658,"text":"基本上你當初統一發票為什麼會把它大獎化基本上你就把它彩券化的一個概念基本上它是一個鼓勵拿統一發票並不是把它彩券化的概念所以呢你把大獎變大把小獎變小這在民國八十年之後修改了經過了三十五年都沒有修改"},{"start":463.737,"end":480.01,"text":"大獎變大結果沒人領小獎變小大家看不起也不想領我不曉得這個政策到底在幹什麼所以現階段以前的兩百塊錢可以過兩天八十年的時候現在兩百塊錢搞不好吃一餐"},{"start":481.631,"end":496.425,"text":"已經差這麼多了 部長你有沒有思考一下統一發票的這個給獎的金額35年之後的今天有沒有考慮一下要重新思考一下做個調整不要讓大獎沒人領小獎大家不願意領部長"},{"start":498.832,"end":523.799,"text":"第一個我要跟各位跟委員報告我們希望就是大家能夠使用雲端發票然後把放入載具雲端發票是另一個途徑那第二個如果這個獲得獎的沒有來領的話那他這個金額會滾到這個我們總金額裡面去有時候會我們會增加小獎的組數可是很多人就覺得沒有看到那個誘因啊我意思是說呢你現在領200塊真的太少了嘛"},{"start":524.299,"end":547.997,"text":"那一千塊也沒有達到實質的效果嘛也就是說呢你之前呢是把大獎上修小獎下修本席是建議說是不是可能大獎下修小獎上修有沒有可能這樣子我想第一個就是總金額是按照那個對總金額可以我現在在跟你談調配的問題啊然後我們增加您的意思就是增加小獎的主數增加小獎主數那小獎的金額要不要"},{"start":549.778,"end":567.285,"text":"主訴是一個概念本席剛剛跟你討論是金額嘛到80年的時候200可以吃兩天嘛現在200吃一餐嘛你會減少誘因啦不願去對嘛就是你聽不懂我的意思嗎聽得懂那我想委員您的意思我們是不是重新再來檢討規劃一下規劃一下嘛35年時間到了嘛最後一題我們問一下有關於台酒的主席我待會點點時間"},{"start":574.708,"end":600.786,"text":"因為我們之前花了很多的心思跟努力有關於這個台酒的部分有關中國啤酒傾銷變成反傾銷的部分麻煩回去思考一下第一個呢台酒目前的整個產能有一些廠房的產能是下降的特別主力的這個部分那第二個呢我們反傾銷實施八個月之後到底市佔率的部分有沒有變化有沒有產生變化台酒有沒有因此而提升這是第一個"},{"start":601.647,"end":621.04,"text":"第三個我們看得到外商的部分政策上有調整他把生產基地做一個調整還有一個部分甚至考慮來台灣來進行設廠這個都是需要去因應的到底我們這個政策下去在五年時間會不會讓整個市場可以做一個變化這才是我們真正的政策目標這一個部分部長"},{"start":623.061,"end":632.605,"text":"您就回去稍微研究一下請台九寫一份報告給本席本席想要做進一步的了解好 我們以書面來答覆委員謝謝我們結束郭國麟委員的舉行現在請林黛嬅委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}