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接下來請楊瓊瑩委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言首先來邀請台電請台電董事長那個總經理 新任的總經理總經理 顧總經理"},{"start":27.607,"end":41.759,"text":"董事長總經理那總經理新上任你強調自己是穩定供電的操盤手那你也表示今年年底將要完成台中電廠新一更新二號的這個燃氣機組"},{"start":44.261,"end":73.083,"text":"那我想我們長期跟董事長不管他擔任市長或者擔任總經理我們一直在討論怎麼樣讓台中的空氣能夠更清新怎麼樣能夠還給我們台中人的一個健康呼一口新鮮的空氣那所以呢因此中部地區的人呢付出了那麼多中火在那裡所以我們好不容易以氣來換煤那所以我想要首先請"},{"start":74.244,"end":85.112,"text":"那個總經理回答好了你既然是總盤操盤手那請問什麼時候新一號二號的燃氣機組可以上傳來按下去對好可以委員好目前是五月份的時候本年度的五月份的時候會一號機會接受調度"},{"start":105.45,"end":132.191,"text":"已經都接受調度2號機是在預計11月份的時候會接受調度所以換句話說燃氣機組1號機5月份就現在2號機是11月份我們的指標是如此會完成因為目前進度是應該是OK的這個是機組接受調度上限"},{"start":133.462,"end":153.221,"text":"所以換句話說時間可能還會超前那再請教什麼時候拆我們的這個藍莓機組2026年如果12號機商轉之後就是在今年年底今年年底拆藍莓機組的1號機跟2號機"},{"start":157.383,"end":167.466,"text":"我們這個是長期大家一直努力所以一定要達成成功因為中部地區我再強調我們付出了那麼多理當還給我們清新的空氣所以我們預計在今年年底拆藍莓機組的一號機跟二號機那其餘的我們明年度還是繼續加油只要有爭氣"},{"start":183.43,"end":192.832,"text":"就是要拆煤以這個原則好 謝謝你 接下來董事長 部長來 請經濟部長一起來總經理請回座好了台電是國家非常重要的資產 我們都說台電不能倒台電的員工很辛苦 但是台電的負債讓我們這個要謹慎為之那謹慎為之的時候呢 如果"},{"start":213.871,"end":229.28,"text":"如果有任何應當要拿回給台電的錢而不追討回來那這個就是對不起人民那部長你也點頭 表示你認同本席的這個說法是不是是不是 對對 好 所以我們繼續來討論更為有同仁 我們繼續討論也就是人民好幾百億的血汗錢"},{"start":242.952,"end":269.249,"text":"台電在離岸風電發電的第二期計畫裡頭由深微能源的子公司也就是富威能源以628.88億的天價來做銅棒但到目前為止我們看到合約的採購很清楚設備採購與安裝的需求書裡頭寫得很清楚你必須在114年12月31號前必須完成全部工程的竣工"},{"start":270.329,"end":281.741,"text":"現在是什麼時候現在是115年的5月中旬換句話說依照你的合約書你的需求量來說已經超過將近半年的時間所以要請教部長目前我們31座的機組我們安裝了幾座"},{"start":287.379,"end":313.037,"text":"機座我們安裝了幾座上面有寫一座幾座一座對為什麼因為他是先裝那個機裝機裝先裝完以後最後才裝風機所以他的機裝現在已經都完成了現在很快的就是把那個風機裝上去就好了機裝完成他已經超越時間剛剛你也特別回答我們只要把它裝上就好了請問什麼時候裝上"},{"start":314.687,"end":336.341,"text":"如果是今年可以繼續施工的話因為今年可以裝完如果是今年可以繼續施工換句話說你已經給人民一個答案你已經超越時間沒有完成部長你的回答不是 報告委員這個就是剛剛提到的因為兩兆在合約上有一點爭議因為他們講說有一些不可能好 你來一個來一個爭議"},{"start":338.963,"end":344.812,"text":"我們很清楚 你告訴我們說你的工程已經完成了96%那這個不是我講的 這個是對方訴求這是你的次長說的這在媒體上面都披露"},{"start":351.38,"end":358.306,"text":"所以在這樣的情況之下這個96%到底是什麼96%是我們的預付款已經拿了人民的納稅錢的96%是不是啊委員這個不是什麼預付款我先說明一下這個契約叫做財務採購代安裝他基本上採購的是設備然後他要負責安裝完成那因為他設備都已經抵岸都已經到台中港所以他其實在整個設備的估價上面對於合約旅行的"},{"start":381.164,"end":398.709,"text":"百分比依照我們標準的工程合約財務財過代安裝的合約他就是要把這些已經到達已經送抵的這些計算進去但工程還有一個最重要的一塊就是要把風機裝上這一件事海嵐目前正在施工這個是關鍵如果沒有裝上等於是"},{"start":403.161,"end":418.326,"text":"當然裝上 它要把它好好裝上才能夠順利發電這個是關鍵的工項 這個也是確定的對 所以在這樣的情況之下 在你的需求量 你的合約裡頭寫明是要在114年的12月31號去完成這個是原來合約要完成的時間當然是你訂約要有合約啊對"},{"start":426.548,"end":434.975,"text":"那個跟委員報告就是所有的工程師做只要遇到不管是天后或其他你這個理由我們繼續來討論不可抗力我們人民情何以堪在你的第14頁裡頭的第4項裡頭完成所有風力發電機組以及海上發電的這個下部結構設置你如果明明白白寫清楚"},{"start":454.031,"end":465.233,"text":"你如果預約一個日曆工作天就是要罰一百零五萬三十座就是要多少呢就是要三千 一天就是要三千一百五十萬"},{"start":466.636,"end":481.351,"text":"那個一個月就是將近10億的錢所以就誠如與人的時候上一次我們一直討論該依法計法的411億那今天台電的二期的這個部分認為成這樣 我請問本席要請問喔"},{"start":484.995,"end":508.42,"text":"本校請問因為子公司今天復會的一個情況導致聲威甚至要被爆出禁止轉付甚至要終止上市剛剛你回答了雞生蛋 蛋生雞是什麼原因我們的人民就希望要知道到底是什麼原因所以我在這邊要代表著全體的納稅人"},{"start":510.58,"end":511.061,"text":"要請問這一筆一天3150萬的預期違約金你台電有開罰了嗎"},{"start":519.38,"end":541.409,"text":"我跟委員報告幾件事情我跟委員報告幾件事情第一件事情你剛才講允能的事跟這個工程合約是完全兩件事當然上次我跟你討論過我舉這個例子告訴你我講第二件事情就是升威升威的財務狀況我們的簽約對象是富威不是升威他是他的子公司所以剛剛請你針對本期的評論"},{"start":545.162,"end":547.143,"text":"請你針對本席的提問 3151億的違約金你們有沒有開罰報告委員 這些叫做工程時程進度上面中間的落差人家只要他有具體的理由他都可以具體申請好 這就是人民要聽的 具體的理由違法就是違法"},{"start":567.688,"end":571.951,"text":"好 你同意這一點 我告訴你 部長站在這邊如果你要用疫情你要用惡霧戰爭你要用通膨申請 這些不可抗的爛藉口那人民的納稅錢要怎麼做處理"},{"start":587.942,"end":602.348,"text":"報告委員剛才前一位委員的質詢是說我們應該要去注意這一些不可抗力因素所以光是在國會就有兩種意見那我們只能夠做一件事就是這些申訴程序就到工程會去協助好請告訴你"},{"start":603.991,"end":628.745,"text":"台電已經同意追加了55.57億而且還要兼顧付款你的理由有爭議就到哪裡就到這個調解委員會去做調解你們就是這麼做但是人民要問的一邊要給立法院拿千億的撥補一邊要讓台電成為私人的一個"},{"start":629.685,"end":649.62,"text":"提款機部長這是不同意這樣的一個做法台電公司的財務如此你們一定要嚴格的依合約去執行當然所以本席告訴你本席告訴你本席告訴你這個628.881他的班前的三部曲第一部"},{"start":655.339,"end":667.105,"text":"低價投標高價變更部長你要聽清楚當時他們是用比較便宜的新聞紙來搶標得標了之後又想要要求轉換為高價的維斯塔斯的方式然後基礎可以減少這裡又莫名其妙的增加了將近70億也就是歐元的2.1億"},{"start":681.997,"end":692.144,"text":"在這樣子的一個情況之下就像你進了餐廳你買的是你點的是洋蔥麵但是你要付款的時候要求台電要付一個頂級的牛肉麵錢"},{"start":693.646,"end":716.835,"text":"第二步 告訴你 無首轉單 移心大法台階我們編了60億的維運管理費5年但是他再發包海外的部分27億33億跑到哪裡去 部長第三個 也就是更惡劣的 你不蓋風場你海外去洗船錢"},{"start":718.854,"end":746.096,"text":"海上的風機躺在那裡 你趕快裝啊遞席啦但是他用台電的這個預付款去買了三台工作船台電的合約書裡頭沒有要求要買工作船大家都在評論這三艘的工作船 溢價了60億所以因此 部長"},{"start":747.506,"end":758.31,"text":"我們看到這樣的情況變更機型多出了70億維運差價不見了33億海外買船又溢價了60億這是在幫台灣蓋風場嗎還是把台電剛剛本席說的"},{"start":767.629,"end":786.342,"text":"當成是提款機呢台電面對的是婦威啊我們還是針對婦威當然是婦威啊你怎麼不針對本集的提問大家都知道簽約的是婦威啊對啊你上面講的是審威的事情啊那不是婦威啊什麼審威的事情你的簽約是婦威啊對不對所以告訴你部長現在台灣看到這樣子的一個情況"},{"start":798.12,"end":819.487,"text":"原公司 子公司互威來簽約 到現在已經搞到台灣的股市支付抵債 禁止轉付 要面臨下市 海外的資金疑雲重重那海上的風機 互威所跟你簽約的海上的風機 至今只裝了31座 只裝了一座"},{"start":821.707,"end":840.099,"text":"紙上的一座所以本席在這邊要嚴密的提出經濟部跟台電你必須要去徹查清楚你必須要去徹查清楚徹查什麼呢第一個 升位跟負威有名有利用 入付款來轉投資"},{"start":841.98,"end":859.378,"text":"境外公司背書保證跟有沒有不合營業常規的一個交易有沒有掏空資產他的資金流向以及在合約台電跟富威合約依法的情況之下的責任到底是如何"},{"start":862.932,"end":886.117,"text":"本席嚴正的要求你在一個月內將這些的資料給本席也給我們經濟委員會大家都在關心這些錢到底目前的流向是怎麼樣這些進度到底是如何請部長我們還是按照合約來進行當然請一個月內將這些剛剛本席所提的一個月內提出報告"},{"start":893.679,"end":903.464,"text":"我們可以說明所以在你還沒有提出說明之前你必須要要求主案嚴格審查而且暫停所有的"},{"start":910.25,"end":916.936,"text":"這個追加的這個預算凍結沒有 按照合約啊當然按照合約啊當然按照合約啊所以一天3100多億的這個多萬的這個錢你們到底"},{"start":927.065,"end":932.549,"text":"什麼社會去理清楚告訴社會大眾當然按照合約一定要依合約來進行一個月內請將資料給本席不要讓人民當成是開始也不要讓台電淪為私人公司的踢款機"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:04:39.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:04:41.402000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請台電及新任的總經理。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:04:41.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:04:41.802000+08:00","text":"請台電董事長、郭總經理。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:05:05.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:05:39.254000+08:00","text":"董事長、總經理，總經理新上任，你強調自己是穩定供電的操盤手，你也表示今年年底將要完成台中電廠新1、新2號燃氣機組，我們長期跟董事長，不管他擔任次長或者擔任總經理，我們一直在討論怎麼樣讓臺中的空氣能夠更清新、怎麼樣能夠還給我們臺中人的健康，可以呼一口新鮮的空氣。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:05:40.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:06:00.911000+08:00","text":"中部地區的人付出了那麼多，中火在那裡，我們好不容易以氣換煤，我想要首先請總經理回答好了，你既然是總操盤手，請問什麼時候新1號、2號的燃氣機組可以商轉？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"郭總經理天合","start":"2026-05-20T10:06:01.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:06:01.271000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭總經理天合","start":"2026-05-20T10:06:01.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:06:31.536000+08:00","text":"目前是5月份的時候，本年度的5月份，1號機會接受調度，已經都接受調度；2號機預計11月份的時候會接受調度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:06:32.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:06:46.828000+08:00","text":"所以換句話說，燃氣機組1號機5月份，就是現在，2號機是11月份，我們的指標是如此，會完成嘛，因為目前進度應該是OK的？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"郭總經理天合","start":"2026-05-20T10:06:47.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:06:50.171000+08:00","text":"這個是機組接受調度上限。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:06:51.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:06:53.884000+08:00","text":"所以換句話說，時間可能還會超前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:06:54.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:03.013000+08:00","text":"再請教什麼時候拆燃煤機組？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭總經理天合","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:03.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:08.318000+08:00","text":"2026年如果1、2號機商轉之後，就是在今年年底。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:09.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:20.565000+08:00","text":"今年年底拆燃煤機組的1號機跟2號機，好，這個是長期大家一直努力，所以一定要達陣成功。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:21.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:24.726000+08:00","text":"因為我再次強調，我們中部地區付出了那麼多，理當還給我們清新的空氣，所以預計在今年年底拆燃煤機組的1號機跟2號機？是。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:24.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:45.011000+08:00","text":"其餘的明年度還是繼續加油，只要有增氣，就是要拆煤，以這個原則，謝謝你。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:45.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:47.031000+08:00","text":"接下來董事長、部長，要請經濟部部長一起來。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:47.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:47.711000+08:00","text":"總經理，你請回座好了。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:47.711000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:07:48.711000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:07:47.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:08:24.358000+08:00","text":"台電是國家非常重要的資產，我們都說台電不能倒，台電的員工很辛苦，但是台電的負債讓我們要謹慎為之，那謹慎為之的時候，如果有任何應當要拿回給台電的錢而不追討回來，這個就是對不起人民，部長，你也點頭表示你認同本席的說法，是不是？對。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:08:24.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:09.010000+08:00","text":"所以我們繼續來討論，各位同仁，我們繼續討論人民好幾百億的血汗錢，台電在離岸風電發電第二期計畫裡頭，由森崴能源的子公司，也就是富崴能源，以628.88億的天價統包，但到目前為止，我們看到合約的採購很清楚，設備採購與安裝的需求書裡頭寫得很清楚，你必須在114年12月31日前完成「全部工程竣工」，現在是什麼時候？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:09.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:26.580000+08:00","text":"現在是115年5月中旬，換句話說，依照你的合約書、你的需求量來說，已經超過將近半年的時間，所以要請教部長，目前我們31座機組安裝了幾座基座？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:28.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:30.423000+08:00","text":"上面有寫1座。幾座？1座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:31.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:32.084000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:32.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:43.992000+08:00","text":"因為它是先裝基樁，基樁先裝完以後，最後才裝風機，所以它的基樁現在已經都完成了，現在很快的把風機裝上去就好了。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:44.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:51.017000+08:00","text":"基樁完成它已經超越時間，剛剛你也特別回答我們只要把它裝上就好了，請問什麼時候裝上？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:52.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:56.369000+08:00","text":"如果是今年可以繼續施工的話，應該今年可以裝完。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:56.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:09:58.731000+08:00","text":"如果今年可以繼續施工？對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:09:59.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:06.196000+08:00","text":"換句話說，你已經給人民一個答案，已經超越時間還沒有完成，在部長你的回答……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:06.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:13.501000+08:00","text":"不是，報告委員，這個就是剛剛提到的，因為兩造在合約上有一點爭議，他們說有一些不可抗力因素。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:13.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:20.088000+08:00","text":"你拿一個爭議……我們很清楚，你告訴我們說工程已經完成了96%……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:20.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:21.090000+08:00","text":"這個不是我講的，這個是對方訴求，所以公共工程委員會……","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:21.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:21.590000+08:00","text":"這是你的次長說的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:21.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:22.590000+08:00","text":"這個在工程會已經……","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:22.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:22.792000+08:00","text":"在媒體上面都披露了！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:22.792000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:29.380000+08:00","text":"不是，這個是工程會去協調……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:29.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:31.382000+08:00","text":"所以在這樣的情況之下，這96%到底是怎麼樣的96%？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:31.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:32.222000+08:00","text":"是我們的預付款已經拿了人民納稅錢的96%嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:32.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:10:32.503000+08:00","text":"是不是啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:10:32.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:16.009000+08:00","text":"委員，這個不是什麼預付款，我先說明一下，這個契約叫做財物採購帶安裝，基本上採購的是設備，然後他要負責安裝完成，因為設備都已經抵岸，都已經到臺中港，所以其實在整個設備的估價上面，對於合約履行的百分比，依照我們標準的財物採購帶安裝合約，就是要把這些已經到達、已經送抵的計算進去，但工程還有一個最重要的一塊，就是要把風機裝上這件事，海纜目前正在施工，跟委員報告。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:16.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:16.689000+08:00","text":"這個是關鍵，如果沒有裝上，等於是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:21.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:28.583000+08:00","text":"當然，他要把它好好裝上才能夠順利發電，這個是關鍵工項，這個也是確定的。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:29.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:34.745000+08:00","text":"對，所以在這樣的情況之下，你的需求有在合約裡頭寫明，是要在114年12月31日完成。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:34.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:35.945000+08:00","text":"這個是原來合約要完成的時間……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:35.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:36.306000+08:00","text":"當然你訂約要有合約啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:36.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:51.074000+08:00","text":"對，跟委員報告，所有的工程施作，只要遇到不管是天候或其他可以接受的……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:51.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:51.794000+08:00","text":"你這個理由我們繼續來討論……","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:51.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:51.954000+08:00","text":"不可抗力就會造成工期延遲。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:51.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:52.154000+08:00","text":"好，不可抗力，但我們人民情何以堪？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:52.154000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:11:53.154000+08:00","text":"報告委員，所有的工程都有這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:11:52.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:12:17.602000+08:00","text":"在第44頁第4項是「完成所有風力發電機組及海上變電站之下部結構設置」，這裡明明白白寫得很清楚，每逾越1個日曆天就要罰105萬。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:12:18.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:12:19.866000+08:00","text":"30座要多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:12:21.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:12:27.980000+08:00","text":"一天就要3,150萬，一個月就是將近10億的錢！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:12:28.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:09.061000+08:00","text":"就誠如允能的部分，上一次我們一直在討論，依法該計罰411億，而今天台電二期的這個部分爛尾成這樣，本席要請問，因為子公司富崴的情況，導致森崴被爆出淨值轉負，甚至要終止上市，剛剛你回答了雞生蛋蛋生雞是什麼原因，我們的人民就是希望知道到底是什麼原因，所以我在這邊要代表全體的納稅人來請問，這一筆一天3,150萬的逾期違約金，台電有開罰了嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:17.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:19.061000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告幾件事情……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:19.061000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:20.061000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:19.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:26.103000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告幾件事情，第一件事情，您剛才提到允能的事，這跟這個工程合約是完全兩件事；第二件事……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:26.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:27.544000+08:00","text":"當然，上次我跟你討論過，我是舉這個例子告訴你！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:27.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:37.088000+08:00","text":"我講第二件事情，您提到森崴的財務狀況，我們的簽約對象是富崴，不是森崴……","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:38.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:39.069000+08:00","text":"它是它的子公司！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:39.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:43.162000+08:00","text":"森崴的財務狀況哪裡有問題，是它要說清楚……","quality":0.056},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:43.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:43.462000+08:00","text":"請你針對本席的提問，請你針對本席的提問，一天3,150萬的違約金，你們有沒有開罰？","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:43.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:44.342000+08:00","text":"報告委員，工程時程進度的中間落差，只要它有具體的理由，它都可以去提申訴。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:44.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:13:45.123000+08:00","text":"好，這就是人民要聽的，你說具體的理由，但違法就是違法！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:13:45.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:05.688000+08:00","text":"同意，如果有違法就是違法，但……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:05.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:07.789000+08:00","text":"好，你同意這一點，我告訴你，部長站在這邊……","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:07.789000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:08.789000+08:00","text":"但是委員，不是你現在這樣講的就是正確的判斷。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:07.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:09.931000+08:00","text":"如果你要用疫情、你要用俄烏戰爭、你要用通膨升息這一些不可抗的爛藉口，那人民的納稅錢要怎麼做處理？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:25.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:38.807000+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛才前一位委員的質詢是說我們應該要去注意這一些不可抗力因素，所以光是在國會就有兩種意見，我們只能夠做一件事，就是這些申訴程序就到工程會去協處。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:39.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:43.832000+08:00","text":"好，本席告訴你，台電已經同意追加了55.57億……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:43.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:44.832000+08:00","text":"那是在工程會調解的結果。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:43.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:48.214000+08:00","text":"而且還要監督付款……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:48.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:49.095000+08:00","text":"對，監督付款。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:49.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:14:55.038000+08:00","text":"你的理由有爭議，就到調解委員會去做調解。是。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:14:56.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:15:19.894000+08:00","text":"你們就是這麼做，但是人民要問的是，一邊要向立法院拿千億的撥補，一邊又要讓台電成為私人的提款機，部長，我們不同意這樣的做法，台電公司的財務如此，你們一定要嚴格的依合約去執行！當然。當然？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:15:20.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:15:21.536000+08:00","text":"所以本席告訴你……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:15:21.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:15:24.178000+08:00","text":"調解也是合約之一啦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:15:24.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:15:41.103000+08:00","text":"本席告訴你這628.88億的搬錢三部曲，第一部是低價投標、高價變更，部長，你要聽清楚，當初他們是用比較便宜的西門子來搶標……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:15:41.103000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:15:42.103000+08:00","text":"沒有這回事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:15:41.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:16:10.144000+08:00","text":"得標了之後，又以要求轉換為高價的維斯塔斯的方式，然後基座可以減少，這裡就莫名其妙的增加了將近70億，也就是2.1億歐元，這樣的情況就像你進餐廳後點的是陽春麵，但是要付款的時候，要求台電要付的卻是頂級牛肉麵的錢。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:16:11.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:16:28.292000+08:00","text":"第二部是五手轉單、移星大法，台電編列將近60億的維運管理費，5年，但是海外發包的部分27億，33億跑到哪裡去，部長？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:16:28.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:03.175000+08:00","text":"第三部更惡劣，不蓋風場、海外洗船錢，海上的風機躺在那裡，你趕快裝啊，逾期了喔，但是它用台電的預付款去買了三艘工作船，台電的合約書裡頭沒有要求要買工作船，大家都在評論這三艘工作船溢價了60億。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:04.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:15.570000+08:00","text":"部長，我們看到的情況是，變更機型多出了70億，維運差價不見了33億，海外買船又溢價了60億，這是在幫臺灣蓋風場嗎？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:15.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:27.070000+08:00","text":"還是剛剛本席所說的，把台電當成是提款機呢？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:27.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:30.192000+08:00","text":"台電面對的是富崴啦，我們還是針對富崴的合約來進行。","quality":0.478},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:30.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:31.533000+08:00","text":"當然是富崴啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:31.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:34.375000+08:00","text":"你怎麼不針對本席的提問……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:34.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:35.375000+08:00","text":"很多事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:34.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:36.877000+08:00","text":"大家都知道簽約的是富崴啊，對不對？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:36.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:39.519000+08:00","text":"對啊，但您上面講的是森崴的事情，不是富崴啊！","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:39.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:40.460000+08:00","text":"什麼森崴的事情？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:40.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:41.581000+08:00","text":"你簽約的是富威啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:41.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:41.761000+08:00","text":"對不對？是啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:41.761000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:17:42.761000+08:00","text":"富崴沒有這些啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:17:41.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:18:20.307000+08:00","text":"所以告訴你，部長，現在臺灣看到這樣一個情況，子公司富崴來簽約，到現在已經搞到它在臺灣的股市資不抵債、淨值轉負要面臨下市，海外的資金疑雲重重，海上的風機，富崴跟你簽約的海上風機，31座至今只裝了1座，只裝了1座！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:18:21.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:18:32.615000+08:00","text":"所以本席在這邊要嚴厲的提出，經濟部跟台電必須要去徹查清楚，徹查什麼呢？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:18:33.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:18:38.099000+08:00","text":"第一個，森崴跟富威有沒有利用預付款來轉投資？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:18:39.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:18:46.487000+08:00","text":"境外公司背書保證有沒有不合營業常規的交易？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:18:47.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:18:49.470000+08:00","text":"有沒有掏空資產？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:18:49.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:18:57.358000+08:00","text":"它的資金流向，以及台電跟富威的合約在依法情況之下的責任到底是如何？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:00.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:17.836000+08:00","text":"本席嚴正要求你在1個月內將這些資料提供給本席，也提供給我們經濟委員會，大家都在關心這些錢目前的流向是怎麼樣，這些進度到底是如何？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:19.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:20.737000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:20.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:21.837000+08:00","text":"我們還是按照合約來進行，我們跟富崴……當然！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:21.837000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:22.837000+08:00","text":"台電公司跟富崴的合約……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:21.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:24.097000+08:00","text":"1個月內，請將本席剛剛所提的這些疑問，在1個月內提出報告。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:31.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:32.440000+08:00","text":"我們可以說明，但是……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:32.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:33.440000+08:00","text":"可以說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:33.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:34.440000+08:00","text":"有一些是資料拿不到的就沒辦法啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:34.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:49.431000+08:00","text":"所以在你還沒有提出說明之前，你必須要求逐案嚴格審查，而且暫停、凍結所有的追加預算。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:50.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:51.493000+08:00","text":"沒有，要按照合約啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:51.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:52.514000+08:00","text":"當然按照合約啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:52.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:53.514000+08:00","text":"這要按照合約。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:52.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:19:53.214000+08:00","text":"當然按照合約啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:19:53.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:07.687000+08:00","text":"所以一天3,150萬的這個錢，你們到底什麼時候會去釐清楚，然後告訴社會大眾？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:07.687000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:08.687000+08:00","text":"按照合約來進行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:07.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:08.127000+08:00","text":"當然按照合約，一定要依合約來進行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:08.127000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:09.127000+08:00","text":"一定、一定。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:08.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:09.708000+08:00","text":"請於1個月內將資料給本席，不要把人民當成是凱子……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:09.708000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:10.708000+08:00","text":"好，請經濟部跟台電做個報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:09.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:10.549000+08:00","text":"也不要讓台電淪為私人公司的提款機！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:11.049000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:12.763286+08:00","text":"沒有這回事啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:13.063286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:15.349000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:15.649000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:19.077571+08:00","text":"接下來有請邱志偉委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:19.377571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:21.091857+08:00","text":"部長，先喝點水！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:21.391857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:24.820429+08:00","text":"我走慢一點，你們可以喝點水。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:25.120429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:26.834714+08:00","text":"我給他1分鐘啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:27.134714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:28.563286+08:00","text":"我走慢一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:20:28.863286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:20:31.434714+08:00","text":"你說開始我們就開始。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}