{"error":false,"id":["169452"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":169452,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169452","日期":"2026-05-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-05-20T10:39:38+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-20T10:46:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79baec49a08c7f008f57b1a7252260727bd661cbc05507f2af6346175e7c94f56e9555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:39:38 - 10:46:49","會議時間":"2026-05-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於僑務委員會主管收支公開及機密部分。\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於僑務委員會主管信託基金： （一）莊守耕公益基金。（二）受理捐贈僑生獎助學金及艱困地區僑民學校師資輔助金基金。（僅詢答）（5月18日、20日及21日三天一次會））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":1.16159375,"end":4.3678437500000005,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":4.77284375,"end":5.8697187500000005,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":6.0553437500000005,"end":7.25346875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":7.48971875,"end":8.907218750000002,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":13.56471875,"end":14.391593750000002,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":14.72909375,"end":24.195968750000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":24.78659375,"end":26.136593750000003,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":26.23784375,"end":28.95471875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":29.140343750000003,"end":30.06846875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":30.23721875,"end":32.768468750000004,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":33.173468750000005,"end":38.92784375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":39.04596875,"end":50.149718750000005,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":50.52096875,"end":56.52846875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":56.96721875,"end":57.03471875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":57.03471875,"end":57.05159375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":57.05159375,"end":57.625343750000006,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":57.625343750000006,"end":59.92034375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":59.92034375,"end":60.291593750000004,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":60.291593750000004,"end":63.93659375000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":63.869093750000005,"end":64.18971875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":64.08846875,"end":66.78846875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":67.29471875,"end":70.85534375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":71.41221875000001,"end":73.97721875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":74.12909375000001,"end":74.78721875000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":74.78721875000001,"end":74.82096875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":74.97284375000001,"end":76.62659375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":76.62659375,"end":100.03221875000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":99.42471875000001,"end":100.92659375000001,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":100.48784375000001,"end":107.74409375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":103.45784375000001,"end":103.96409375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":105.21284375,"end":105.29721875000001,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":107.89596875000001,"end":109.26284375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":109.41471875,"end":109.76909375000001,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":109.71846875000001,"end":116.80596875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":115.74284375,"end":116.73846875000001,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":116.80596875,"end":117.51471875000001,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":117.51471875000001,"end":119.62409375000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":118.49346875,"end":118.72971875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":119.53971875,"end":119.87721875000001,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":119.87721875000001,"end":123.45471875000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":123.62346875,"end":124.43346875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":124.18034375,"end":126.67784375000001,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":126.61034375000001,"end":126.98159375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":126.98159375,"end":130.23846875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":130.20471875,"end":130.22159375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":130.23846875,"end":130.62659375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":130.57596875000002,"end":165.16971875000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":166.55346875,"end":174.97409375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":174.97409375,"end":196.57409375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":193.09784375,"end":193.53659375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":196.57409375,"end":196.87784375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":196.87784375,"end":196.89471875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":197.01284375,"end":199.98284375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":200.40471875,"end":202.49721875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":202.49721875,"end":202.83471875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":202.83471875,"end":204.91034375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":204.91034375,"end":205.23096875000002,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":205.23096875000002,"end":206.37846875000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":206.91846875000002,"end":207.30659375000002,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":207.84659375,"end":210.52971875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":210.81659375,"end":217.56659375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":218.00534375,"end":224.29971875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":223.21971875000003,"end":228.68721875000003,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":224.51909375000002,"end":225.54846875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":228.68721875000003,"end":229.00784375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":229.36221875,"end":241.90034375000002,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":240.90471875000003,"end":242.96346875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":242.60909375000003,"end":246.84471875000003,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":246.96284375000002,"end":279.48096875000005,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":266.87534375,"end":267.29721875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":268.69784375,"end":270.04784375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":273.20346875,"end":273.65909375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":276.20721875000004,"end":276.64596875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":278.73846875000004,"end":282.07971875000004,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":282.07971875000004,"end":282.61971875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":282.61971875,"end":284.89784375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":285.16784375000003,"end":286.65284375000005,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":285.25221875,"end":285.80909375000005,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":286.70346875,"end":287.09159375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":287.09159375,"end":287.22659375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":287.22659375,"end":287.26034375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":287.86784375,"end":288.79596875000004,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":288.79596875000004,"end":288.88034375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":288.88034375,"end":306.34596875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":306.59909375,"end":332.33346875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":313.33221875000004,"end":313.43346875000003,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":332.28284375000004,"end":374.21721875000003,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":340.85534375000003,"end":343.97721875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":345.27659375,"end":345.85034375000004,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":352.00971875000005,"end":352.80284375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":353.37659375000004,"end":353.57909375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":372.71534375000005,"end":383.63346875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":378.99284375,"end":379.75221875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":382.33409375,"end":391.81784375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":392.03721875,"end":403.22534375000004,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":392.45909375,"end":393.42096875000004,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":401.58846875,"end":402.14534375000005,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":402.66846875000005,"end":405.53721875,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":403.90034375000005,"end":409.26659375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":409.33409375,"end":418.93596875000003,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鍾委員佳濱","start":419.00346875,"end":430.69784375,"speaker_score":0.787},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":426.56346875,"end":427.32284375,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":429.48284375000003,"end":429.97221875,"speaker_score":0.727},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"高金委員素梅","start":430.84971875,"end":431.79471875,"speaker_score":0.727}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.25,"end":6.827,"text":"當委員先進列席的政府監管署長官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們徐委員長徐委員長"},{"start":15.763,"end":32.395,"text":"今天我們來關心一下旅外僑胞聲援台灣的國際處境我們如何強化僑教中心服務僑胞的量能請問盧比歐跟魯比歐是不是同一個人是同一個人為什麼中共要把他改姓"},{"start":33.827,"end":44.057,"text":"據說之前他被列為禁止進入中國的不受歡迎人士是的 委員長很了解中共他說參議員盧比歐的時候反中共所以制裁他但是他當了國務卿是盧比歐要歡迎他那請問一下戰爭部跟退伍軍人事務部你覺得中共比較會不能接受哪一個去訪問"},{"start":57.409,"end":70.475,"text":"戰爭部戰爭部就把他當成假想敵嘛對那退伍軍人事務部可能這些美國的退伍軍人還會去中國旅遊啊對好那請問一下在我們中華民國政府體制外交部跟僑委會在中共眼中哪一個要特別打壓"},{"start":71.842,"end":95.828,"text":"他們當然是所打壓外交部那為什麼因為是官方的機制難道你不是官方的機制嗎這個就是奧妙之所對就是中共的認知外交部是代表國家主權的不能夠讓中華民國有一個代表國家主權的部長來我這裡訪問但是僑委會是照顧中華民國人民的是不是這樣是所以委員長你比較可以在國際上"},{"start":97.888,"end":101.332,"text":"比較可以閃過中共的打壓我比較有彈性比較有彈性可以去關心我們的僑民也可以去拓展我們的外交嘛是的那我們的外交不是只有靠外交部啊是不是包括僑胞對我們看一看就在5月19號就在昨天聲援台灣加入WHA是不是"},{"start":115.868,"end":120.214,"text":"去的人是誰都是僑胞都是僑胞嘛都是你的服務對象嘛對就在去年勝選台灣加入國際民航組織的去的是誰也是僑胞也是僑胞嘛也都是你服務的對象嘛對所以僑胞對我們台灣的國際處境外交很重要嘛所以"},{"start":131.249,"end":154.898,"text":"中共要打壓他有困難中共要攔阻你去訪問這些國家也很困難但是這些僑胞的情感他們的生活我們要去服務對不對其實他們的情感聯繫跟文化傳承他們是靠誰我看一下成年的僑胞他們需要的是情感的聯繫在當地的國家文化不太一樣要找自己有文化背景一樣的他們的後代希望能夠傳承"},{"start":156.199,"end":160.49,"text":"所以情感的聯繫更快的傳承我知道我們僑委會有僑民處 僑教處 僑商處 僑生處哪一個要負責這個工作"},{"start":167.438,"end":181.525,"text":"這些大部分都是在我們駐外的同仁有的是合宿辦公有的是在喬教中心那我們在全球有16個喬教中心所以喬教中心就是扮演這個其他部位不能取代的經濟部或許可以協助喬商那麼其實呢很多的單位啊移民署可以協助喬民"},{"start":187.307,"end":206.049,"text":"但是最重要最重要的就是這個喬教中心是喬委會其他部會大概所沒有的功能是不是這樣好那我們有多少喬教中心你剛剛說了有16個對不對對好那這些喬教中心我知道我去過好幾次啊有的好像是自己的獨棟的building對有的好像在大樓裡面的一個房間對那目前的情況怎麼樣"},{"start":207.921,"end":224.309,"text":"跟委員說明我們現在在北美洲有12個那12個呢加拿大一個是自購美國的11個其中呢有三處是租賃好因為我們在談預算啦對對對我比較關心的是你有自購的有租賃的對"},{"start":229.632,"end":241.86,"text":"欸我知道在國外有些地方租金很貴欸真的很貴是我知道其實我常有去新加坡啦我們的那個同大子說啊他那個還是租的房東常常跟他提漲房租每一年都提漲每一年都提漲對那你們怎麼又想要租的比較貴啊為什麼沒有想要買下來呢"},{"start":247.523,"end":251.425,"text":"這也就是過往本會曾經有過採購的狀況但是後來都因為個別不同因素就有刪除後來就沒有成功但近年來我們是一直發現說我們的業務費用事實上在付這些房租就越付越多所以我們的業務預算又沒有什麼成長"},{"start":270.051,"end":286.091,"text":"所以相對的變成要執行業務的預算就越來越少那長期這樣下去我認為不是辦法所以應當要由資本門來支出才是正辦你們每年的資本門有占多少比例很少很少 總署知道嗎行政院知道嗎"},{"start":288.373,"end":296.676,"text":"近年來已經知道因為我也去報告了是好我希望您很負責我們在審預算我們都知道其實中央政府都其實都會在強調資本們的投資他們比較會優先考慮經常因為是經常維持費用那如果是像僑委會可以對"},{"start":306.727,"end":327.026,"text":"驻留在海外的侨胞长期的做业务经营你们资本门的投资是有必要的你们可不可以做一个投资效益的分析让本席也让足迹总署知道如果你们有限的预算当中拨多少在资本门它创造的效益可以让你们经常们"},{"start":327.677,"end":334.646,"text":"不會受到太大的影響而且經常們的支出可以用在必要的活動上跟委員說明 事實上在20年前應該說20多年前外交部就已經有這樣的一個長期計劃也就是說他們在海外的外交部有一個壯團人計劃那你們沒有"},{"start":344.359,"end":350.503,"text":"我們一直都沒有所以我近年來就是希望說我們也來做一個所以今年我確實是打算在116年度提明年度的計劃案希望說這個可以得到行政院長的認可然後主計總署的贊同以及大院的支持如果在這樣的一個條件之下我們就可以在明年逐步落實還有六個管處我們是租賃的狀況之下可以把它逐漸的解除"},{"start":374.98,"end":390.998,"text":"我們政府不是投報率啦我們看的是投資的效益啦請您把這個資本門跟經常門分別的效益評估做出來好不好近年來其實只要是在海外用採購案的這個地方呢我們不但是這些房地產都"},{"start":392.599,"end":419.122,"text":"有增值啦增值除外呢還有一個好處是大部分的海外一般投資者他還要付很多稅金但由於我們是外交單位所以我們是不用付稅金的投資還免稅對所以這對我們國家來說絕對是一個好處在現在歐美這個房價也很高漲然後物價又年年波動然後房租每年跟我這樣10%的狀況之下我們真的是有苦說不出啦好這個"},{"start":421.364,"end":430.517,"text":"這個做金之門的一個配比的一個適當的投資效益的分析請也給本席一個報告 好不好好的那我們希望你們您年度的預算趕快提出來好的向行政院 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:38.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:42.100000+08:00","text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:42.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:44.787000+08:00","text":"有請徐委員長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:44.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:44.827000+08:00","text":"請委員長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:44.827000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:49.295000+08:00","text":"鍾委員你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:49.295000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:53.763000+08:00","text":"委員長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:53.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:00.227000+08:00","text":"今天我們來關心一下旅外僑胞聲援臺灣的國際處境，以及如何強化僑教中心服務僑胞的量能。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:03.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:06.792000+08:00","text":"請問「盧比歐」跟「魯比歐」是不是同一個人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:07.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:07.813000+08:00","text":"是同一個人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:08.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:10.375000+08:00","text":"為什麼中共要幫他改姓？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:11.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:16.651000+08:00","text":"據說之前他被列為禁止進入中國的不受歡迎人士。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:17.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:18.673000+08:00","text":"是的，委員長很了解中共。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:18.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:20.775000+08:00","text":"他們說參議員「盧比歐」反中共，所以制裁他；但是他當了國務卿是「魯比歐」，所以要歡迎他。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:20.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:22.057000+08:00","text":"請問戰爭部跟退伍軍人事務部，你覺得中共比較不能接受哪一個去訪問？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:35.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:35.409000+08:00","text":"戰爭部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:36.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:36.090000+08:00","text":"戰爭部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:36.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:38.350000+08:00","text":"因為戰爭部就是把他當作假想敵。對。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:38.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:42.172000+08:00","text":"至於退伍軍人事務部，可能這些美國退伍軍人還會去中國旅遊啊！對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:42.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:48.475000+08:00","text":"請問在我們中華民國政府體制下，外交部跟僑委會在中共眼中，哪一個要特別打壓？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:49.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:51.703000+08:00","text":"他們當然是打壓外交部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:52.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:53.083000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:53.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:54.263000+08:00","text":"因為是官方的機制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:54.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:57.264000+08:00","text":"難道你不是官方的機制嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:57.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:58.884000+08:00","text":"這個就是奧妙之所在。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:59.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:11.367000+08:00","text":"對，就是中共的認知，認為外交部代表國家主權，不能讓中華民國有一個代表國家主權的部長到這裡訪問，但是僑委會是照顧中華民國人民的，是不是這樣？是。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:11.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:16.128000+08:00","text":"所以委員長，你在國際上比較可以閃過中共的打壓……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:16.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:16.189000+08:00","text":"我比較有彈性。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:16.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:17.110000+08:00","text":"比較有彈性，所以可以關心我們的僑民，也可以拓展我們的外交？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:17.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:17.370000+08:00","text":"是的、是的。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:17.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:18.091000+08:00","text":"好，那我們的外交不是只有靠外交部，是不是還包括僑胞？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:18.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:34.249000+08:00","text":"我們來看一看，昨天5月19號聲援臺灣加入WHA的，去的人是誰？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:34.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:34.349000+08:00","text":"都是僑胞。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:34.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:34.429000+08:00","text":"都是僑胞嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:34.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:35.090000+08:00","text":"都是你服務的對象嘛！對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:35.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:35.671000+08:00","text":"去年聲援臺灣加入國際民航組織的，去的是誰？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:35.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:35.771000+08:00","text":"也是僑胞。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:35.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:36.151000+08:00","text":"也是僑胞嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:36.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:37.273000+08:00","text":"都是你服務的對象嘛！對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:37.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:54.871000+08:00","text":"所以僑胞對我們臺灣的國際外交處境很重要，因為中共要打壓他們有困難，中共要攔阻你去訪問這些國家也很困難。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:55.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:59.593000+08:00","text":"好，這些僑胞的情感、生活，我們要去服務，對不對？對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:59.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:42:02.274000+08:00","text":"其實他們的情感聯繫跟文化傳承是靠誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:42:03.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:42:18.470000+08:00","text":"成年僑胞需要的是情感聯繫，當地國家的文化和我們不太一樣，所以要找和自己有一樣文化背景的；他們的後代希望能夠傳承，所以情感的聯繫和文化的傳承，我知道僑委會有僑民處、僑教處、僑商處、哪一個要負責這個工作？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:42:25.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:42:33.522000+08:00","text":"這些大部分都是我們駐外的同仁，他們有的是合署辦公、有的在僑教中心，我們在全球有16個僑教中心。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:42:33.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:42:51.815000+08:00","text":"所以僑教中心扮演的角色是其他部會不能取代的，經濟部或許可以協助僑商，移民署可以協助僑民，但最重要、最重要的就是僑教中心，這大概是其他部會所沒有的僑委會的功能，是不是這樣？對。","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:42:51.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:42:53.136000+08:00","text":"好，我們有多少個僑教中心？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:42:53.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:42:55.179000+08:00","text":"你剛剛說16個，對不對？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:42:55.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:04.049000+08:00","text":"這些僑教中心我知道，我也去過好幾次，他們有的是自己獨棟的building、有的是在大樓裡的一個房間，目前的情況怎麼樣？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:05.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:20.648000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們現在在北美洲有12個，其中加拿大有1個，是自購的，美國11個，其中3處是租賃……","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:21.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:21.709000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在在談預算啦！對、對。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:21.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:29.954000+08:00","text":"我比較關心的是，你們有自購、有租賃，我知道國外有些地方的租金很貴欸！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:29.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:30.814000+08:00","text":"真的很貴。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:31.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:38.699000+08:00","text":"我曾去過新加坡，新加坡童大使說他們的辦公室是租的，房東常常跟他提漲房租……","quality":0.606},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:38.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:39.059000+08:00","text":"每一年都提漲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:39.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:43:39.840000+08:00","text":"對，租的比較貴，那你們為什麼沒有想要買下來呢？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:43:45.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:44:17.643000+08:00","text":"過往本會曾經有過採購的狀況，但因為個別不同因素，有3處後來沒有成功，但近年來我們發現我們的業務費用，事實上付這些房租的金額是越來越多，而我們的業務預算又沒有什麼成長，相對就變成執行業務的預算越來越少，我認為長期這樣下去也不是辦法，應當要由資本門來支出才是正辦。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:44:17.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:44:20.426000+08:00","text":"很好，你們每年的資本門占多少比例？很少。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:44:20.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:44:23.570000+08:00","text":"很少，那主計總處知道嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:44:23.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:44:24.091000+08:00","text":"行政院知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:44:26.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:44:28.334000+08:00","text":"近年來已經知道，因為我有去報告了。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:44:29.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:10.123000+08:00","text":"好，我希望你很負責，因為我們要審預算，我們都知道其實中央政府都不太強調資本門的投資，他們比較會優先考慮經常門，因為是經常的維持費用，但如果像僑委會可以對駐留在海外的僑胞做長期的業務經營，你們的資本門投資是有必要的，你可不可以做一個投資效益的分析，讓本席和主計總處知道，在你們有限的預算當中撥多少在資本門，它創造出的效益可以讓你們的經常門不致受太大影響，而且經常門的支出也可以用在必要的活動上？","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:10.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:12.046000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，事實上在二十多年前，外交部就已經有這樣的長期計畫，也就是說，他們在海外……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:12.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:12.626000+08:00","text":"對，外交部有一個中長程計畫，而你們沒有？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:22.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:22.960000+08:00","text":"但我們一直都沒……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:22.960000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:23.960000+08:00","text":"那你提一個啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:23.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:25.361000+08:00","text":"所以近年來我們也希望做一個，事實上，今年我是打算在116年度……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:25.361000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:26.361000+08:00","text":"明年度的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:25.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:45:28.483000+08:00","text":"對，提明年度的計畫案，希望可以得到行政院院長的認可、主計總處的贊同，以及大院的支持，如果在這樣的條件之下，我們就可以在明年逐步落實，目前我們還有6個館處是採租賃狀況，可以逐漸解除。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:45:53.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:01.369000+08:00","text":"好，政府看的不是投報率，而是投資效益，請你把資本門跟經常門分別的效益評估做出來，好不好？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:01.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:08.978000+08:00","text":"而且跟委員說明，近年來，只要是在海外用採購案的地方，這些房地產不但都只漲……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:10.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:10.980000+08:00","text":"有增值啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:11.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:20.708000+08:00","text":"增值除外，還有一個好處，一般海外投資者大部分都要付很多稅金，但由於我們是外交單位，所以是不用付稅金的。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:20.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:22.349000+08:00","text":"投資還免稅？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:22.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:36.501000+08:00","text":"對，所以這對我們國家來說絕對是一個好處，現在歐美房價高漲，物價又年年波動，在房租每年漲10%的狀況下，我們真的是有苦說不出！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:37.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:44.912000+08:00","text":"好，做一個經、資門配比的適當投資效益分析，然後給本席一個報告，好不好？好的。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:45.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:48.377000+08:00","text":"希望你們明年度的預算趕快向行政院提出來，謝謝。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"徐委員長佳青","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:48.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:48.517000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:46:49.017000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:46:52.731286+08:00","text":"接下來請楊瓊瓔委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}