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各位同仁 我們有請曾主委主委好剛才您的報告有提到希拉雅民主的身份認同那麼現在也預計在六月行政院可以核定本席非常的高興我在成大驕諸作全法"},{"start":31.797,"end":60.623,"text":"這個抽象的著作權法要如何發展成為文創產業這牽涉到台灣經濟的發展非常重要而我們原住民的文化是我們非常仰賴的一個文化所以我一直對這個有興趣那有幾個問題想要來請教您我們這九族來申請身份認定的嘉南平原只有西拉雅族還有大武龍族"},{"start":62.179,"end":90.998,"text":"但是你可以看到紅亞族以及東山的朵洛國並沒有來申請這個朵洛國族根據荷蘭人來的文獻他只剩下300多人但是他的居住地卻從這個貨幣到嘉義中間的巴掌溪來到曾文溪這麼大的居地只有300多個原住民"},{"start":92.062,"end":113.328,"text":"那上面住什麼人啊這個台灣石故意裝糊塗我們不能裝糊塗所以我們希望主委啊能夠去做一個研究知道我們現在平地的台灣人如何虧欠我們原住民那這樣原住民要請我們國家來"},{"start":114.745,"end":143.068,"text":"補助還有各方面的協助發展回復文化語言那才有力道根據我初前的看法朵洛國族是1574年被林鳳所率的萬人東渡的漢人所驅離到嘉義到山區這是我初前的看法那第二個"},{"start":145.08,"end":174.065,"text":"我對這個希拉雅族他的語言各方面非常有興趣他的歷史其實希拉雅族他的文化水平比當時荷蘭時代的漢人的文化水平高很多他們是受到荷蘭人教育會講德語的那麼文化各位從我新式的新港文書去看新港文書裡面那些代書都是希拉雅族"},{"start":174.926,"end":202.869,"text":"而不是漢人也就是說他們買賣土地做代書的是原住民所以他的文化水平比較高所以我們現在的語言當中Ga土地的單位那個Ga那是荷蘭語就荷蘭語跟現在的德語一樣Ga就是I Morgan Aker也就是一個人開一條牛離一個早上"},{"start":203.837,"end":218.801,"text":"的土地那我們的先人把它稱為因為太長第二個我們在南部要去租田園我們台語用什麼用對不對您在講德語我發一個德語讓你聽就是"},{"start":232.83,"end":255.857,"text":"就是現在德文現在的豬啊所以你看到我們的希拉雅族在荷蘭人的時代都講荷蘭語德語到現在還有痕跡像這個都要恢復你恢復以後我們的文創各方面就可以做得好但是希拉雅族因為他的文化水平各方面比較高"},{"start":257.288,"end":284.496,"text":"願意跟漢人通婚的就通婚,不願意他離開所以在清代,蕭榮社,麻豆社還有木家六灣社,還有新港社有些就離開他現在的居地那我的花園如果有用到番字,各位要體諒我像麻豆社,搬到現在官田、榮田那邊叫華那產"},{"start":287.521,"end":310.403,"text":"那邊他有姓陳的他其實是原住民那我們現在這些新市我新港社的後人他們到左鎮後來到從左鎮到現在新化的新河社區他們還是信基督教新河教會"},{"start":312.031,"end":339.678,"text":"所以我們如何來協助他們讓他們保持他們文化語言可以發展他們的社區這個非常的重要我們原委會對我們這個做法在2000在今年6月以後有沒有具體的規劃 西拉雅族行政院如果合定以後那就是合定之後我們就趕快來就是說他們的身份先做趕快先做登記啦"},{"start":342.131,"end":369.783,"text":"還有後面我們還有很多一些界委繼續要來協助他們尤其是族羽的護鎮也就是說我們要具體實惠不是只有一個法律定下去而已所以本席希望我們永遠會能夠特別注意新化的那個新河教會那個社區他們現在保持的很好那邊的人民就是我們原住民的個性就是很虔誠很老實"},{"start":372.438,"end":399.817,"text":"就是他們的個性所以我們必須要積極去協助他這是我們平地人對他們的虧欠第三個問題我們大五龍現在也來申請大五龍社他本來在曾文溪兩岸關田的霞現在在玉井的小里那麼善化的家拔在南溪的家拔"},{"start":401.547,"end":428.604,"text":"然後大內的大武隆,在獄警的市區大武隆那我們獄警還有一個盲阿盲、盲冰冰這兩個盲阿盲、盲冰冰,他的平地、居地在哪裡?主委您知道嗎?他們後來又被西拉雅族推擠現在到小林村嘛,大武隆"},{"start":430.58,"end":449.933,"text":"那我們蒙阿蒙跟蒙冰冰它的居地我根據我們新市張家大社的張家開台組它的墳墓在康熙年間就埋在蒙阿蒙可以證明它來自新市的大社大蒙就是新市的大社所以我們如果把這些都恢復"},{"start":451.4,"end":463.364,"text":"對他們的歷史文化非常有幫忙以外對台灣的經濟產值發展文化產位是非常的沒有這個非常沒辦法被替代的懷寶"},{"start":465.563,"end":487.66,"text":"是不是我們組委可以承諾對台南地區的西雅族還有大武龍族這方面能夠積極的來法律通過以後來這裡實會會 我跟委員報告我們會現在就我們已經跟他們互動非常的平緩了他們任何的一個祭儀的活動還有文化活動我們都有跟他們在都有任何人在做這樣非常好謝謝感謝謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:23.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.264000+08:00","text":"主席、各位同仁。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.745000+08:00","text":"有請曾主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.745000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:26.745000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.845000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:25.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:26.505000+08:00","text":"剛才您的報告有提到西拉雅民族的身分認同。對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:26.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:26.966000+08:00","text":"現在也預計在6月行政院可以核定，本席非常高興。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:26.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:52.438000+08:00","text":"我在成大教著作權法，抽象的著作權法要如何發展成為文創產業？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:52.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:14:55.999000+08:00","text":"這牽涉到臺灣經濟的發展，非常重要！","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:14:56.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:15:04.520000+08:00","text":"而我們的原住民文化是我們非常仰賴的一個文化，所以我一直對這個有興趣。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:15:05.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:15:26.184000+08:00","text":"有幾個問題想要來請教您，九族來申請身分認定的，嘉南平原只有西拉雅族還有大武壠族，但是你可以看到洪雅族以及東山的哆囉嘓並沒有來申請。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:15:26.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:15:49.922000+08:00","text":"關於哆囉嘓族，根據荷蘭人來的文獻，只剩下三百多人，但是居住地卻從後壁到嘉義中間的八掌溪到曾文溪，這麼大的居地只有三百多個原住民，上面住什麼人？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:15:53.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:15:57.424000+08:00","text":"臺灣史故意裝糊塗，我們不能裝糊塗！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:15:57.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:16:18.971000+08:00","text":"所以我們希望主委能夠去做個研究，知道現在平地的臺灣人是如何虧欠原住民，原住民要請國家補助，還有各方面的協助，包含發展、回復文化、語言，那才有力道！","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:16:21.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:16:38.827000+08:00","text":"根據我粗淺的看法，哆囉嘓族是1574年被林鳳所率的萬人東渡漢人驅離到嘉義、到山區，這是我粗淺的看法。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:16:39.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:16:48.221000+08:00","text":"第二個，我對於西拉雅族的語言、歷史等各方面非常有興趣。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:16:50.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:17:01.643000+08:00","text":"其實西拉雅族的文化水平比當時荷蘭時代漢人的文化水平高很多，他們是受到荷蘭人教育，會講德語的。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:17:03.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:17:12.406000+08:00","text":"至於文化，各位從我新市的新港文書去看，新港文書裡面那些代書都是西拉雅族，而不是漢人！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:17:13.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:17:19.673000+08:00","text":"也就是說，他們買賣土地做代書的是原住民，所以他們的文化水平比較高。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:17:21.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:17:47.639000+08:00","text":"在我們現在語言當中的「ka」，就是土地單位的「甲」，那是荷蘭語，舊荷蘭語跟現在的德語一樣，「甲」是Ein Morgen Acker，也就是一個人開一條牛犁一個早上的土地，我們的先人把它稱為「甲」，是因為Ein Morgen Acker太長。","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:17:49.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:17:53.661000+08:00","text":"其次，在南部要租田園，我們的臺語用什麼？用「贌」！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:17:54.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:17:55.041000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:17:55.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:18:11.210000+08:00","text":"您在講德語，我發一個德語讓你聽──Pacht，就是「贌」，這就是現在德文的「租」。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:18:12.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:18:26.695000+08:00","text":"所以你看我們的西拉雅族在荷蘭人時代都講荷蘭語、德語，到現在還有痕跡，像這個都要恢復，恢復了以後，我們的文創等各方面就可以做得好。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:18:27.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:18:38.209000+08:00","text":"但是西拉雅族因為文化水平各方面比較高，願意跟漢人通婚的就通婚，不願意就離開。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:18:38.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:18:49.593000+08:00","text":"所以在清代的蕭壠社、麻豆社、目加溜灣社及新港社，有些人就離開了現在的居地。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:18:50.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:19:01.276000+08:00","text":"我的發言如果有用到番字，各位要體諒我，像麻豆社搬到現在官田隆田那邊，叫「番仔田」！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:19:04.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:19:06.683000+08:00","text":"那邊有姓陳的，其實是原住民。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:19:09.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:19:38.053000+08:00","text":"現在新市新港社的後人，後來從左鎮到現在新化的新和社區，他們還是信基督教──新和教會，所以我們如何協助他們，讓他們保持他們的文化、語言，可以發展他們的社區，這個非常重要！","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:19:39.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:19:46.375000+08:00","text":"關於西拉雅族，行政院如果核定以後，原民會在今年6月以後有沒有具體的規劃？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:19:51.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:19:56.658000+08:00","text":"核定之後我們就趕快讓他們的身分先做登記。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:19:59.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:20:05.454000+08:00","text":"後面我們還有很多計畫要繼續協助他們，尤其是族語的復振。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:20:06.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:20:08.455000+08:00","text":"也就是說我們要具體實惠。對！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:20:09.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:20:11.076000+08:00","text":"不是只有法律定下去而已。對！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:20:11.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:20:22.241000+08:00","text":"所以本席希望原民會能夠特別注意新化新和教會那個社區，它現在保持得很好。好。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:20:23.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:20:35.342000+08:00","text":"那邊的人民就是我們原住民的個性，很虔誠、很老實，那就是他們的個性，所以我們必須要積極去協助他們，這是我們平地人對他們的虧欠。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:20:37.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:21:15.738000+08:00","text":"第三個問題，現在大武壠也來申請了，本來在曾文溪兩岸官田的社子、現在在玉井的霄里、善化的茄拔在楠西的茄拔、大內的大武壠在玉井的市區，玉井還有「芒仔芒」和「望明明」，這兩個的平地居地在哪裡？","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:21:15.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:21:19.820000+08:00","text":"主委，您知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:21:19.820000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:21:20.820000+08:00","text":"不知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:21:20.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:21:24.843000+08:00","text":"它們後來又被西拉雅族推擠，現在到小林村。對。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:21:29.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:21:44.412000+08:00","text":"而「芒仔芒」和「望明明」的居地，新市大社的張家開臺祖的墳墓在康熙年間就埋在「芒仔芒」，可以證明他是來自新市的大社，Taivoan就是新市的大社。","quality":0.661},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:21:45.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:13.631000+08:00","text":"我們如果把這些都恢復，對他們的歷史文化非常有幫助以外，對臺灣的經濟產值、發展文化產業是非常沒辦法被替代的瑰寶，主委是不是可以承諾在法律通過以後，對臺南地區的西拉雅族及大武壠族積極地給予實惠？會。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:13.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:24.379000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，現在我們已經跟他們互動非常頻繁，他們任何祭儀的活動及文化活動，我們都有跟他們一起在做。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"許委員忠信","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:24.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:24.660000+08:00","text":"這樣非常好。謝謝。感謝。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:25.160000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:28.874286+08:00","text":"下一位請蘇巧慧委員發言質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}