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謝謝主席 我們請曾主委"},{"start":12.412,"end":38.34,"text":"主委好主委好主委我今天想跟您討論的是關於原住民族的托育量能那因為我今天在您的業務報告裡面看到提升原住民族健康照顧網絡這樣的內容很不錯了因為已經包含了長者照顧社會安全網還有就業保障但是我覺得很可惜的是我覺得看到這邊對兒童照顧的部分其實沒有提到所以"},{"start":39.16,"end":62.674,"text":"這個部分剛好是我現在在新北市裡面我們的原鄉烏來這裡最常被族人朋友問到的一個問題所以我想跟主委這邊探討一下主委像這個新北市新北市大家都知道現在全國都在希望能夠增加托育的量能那我們新北市這麼多的29個區的這個行政區裡面你看打勾的是已經有"},{"start":63.875,"end":91.067,"text":"托育中心部件的單位可是你看烏來喔烏來明明我們的新生兒人數至少還比後面的還高比深坑比石門三芝貢寮這些地方高沒有錯但是連深坑連三芝都有托育中心了但為什麼烏來沒有辦法設立公共托育中心那主委你知道這個原因嗎你對原鄉應該比其他人都更了解嘛"},{"start":92.096,"end":105.829,"text":"目前這個部分在很多的各年齡層的照顧就是這一塊我們就是漏掉那我們會即刻跟衛福部來做反應希望趕快補足這個缺口你不能說真的是漏掉啦因為說實在這確實是有一點難度啦"},{"start":109.412,"end":135.551,"text":"那但是大家都很希望能夠來幫上忙來解決嘛那你看喔我們說看下一頁現在這個原住民的兒童的照顧我剛剛說你沒有提到兒童照顧嘛你長輩提了社會安全網提了就業保障也提了但我說你沒有提到兒童照顧那兒童呢其實以我們現在的制度來講我們可以分成0到2歲2歲以下就是我們叫做托育2到6歲的話呢我們就會以幼兒園為主"},{"start":138.633,"end":161.92,"text":"這個沒有問題好 那二到六歲的幼兒園這個部分其實我們已經可以有部落幼兒園為主但是已經可以有部落互助教保服務中心為輔了這沒有問題吧 對不對這個上路了嘛好 但是兩歲以下的兒童公共托育中心為主這個大家社會也都很認知到了但是部落互助托育機構"},{"start":163.77,"end":170.6,"text":"圍府比照剛剛的二到六歲這個圍府的這個部分已經上路了嗎你知道有還是沒有"},{"start":172.213,"end":192.952,"text":"沒關係如果有比較能夠認識零到兩歲是沒有啦零到兩歲的話其實現在確實因為他連法源都沒有所以確實是沒有是沒有但是也不能說完全沒有為什麼因為我們在衛福部來我給你看下一個我們其實零到兩歲我們有事辦計畫"},{"start":194.753,"end":202.395,"text":"所以這個0到2歲的部分就是因為沒有法源所以我們現在的階段叫做事辦計畫他在113年5月1號開始實施到今年的12月31號期程只有這樣這個事辦計畫只有這樣那依據這個事辦計畫據我的了解應該是高雄跟屏東有了"},{"start":216.278,"end":220.059,"text":"那有了這個計畫可以有什麼好處呢剛剛原鄉托育中心設置困難的地方就有辦法可以突破為什麼因為主委剛剛可能回答得不夠細緻沒關係我現在在烏來這邊我因為跑太多了所以我可以跟您反映其實在原鄉之所以困難第一個就是場域不好找嘛"},{"start":235.205,"end":257.354,"text":"因為幼兒園托育中心它的場域其實都有嚴格的規定那我們在園鄉不見得可以找到這麼適當的地方這是第一個空間第二個是人才的部分不管是照顧兒童的部分不管是托育或者是教保人才其實都有人才難命不管是在地培養的或者是外面要引進的或要請他們來照顧的其實人也很難找"},{"start":260.635,"end":286.366,"text":"所以才會出現了剛剛這個我們有這個幼兒園的部分有部落互助教保服務中心好 那個主委你知道現在來 我給你看一下來 下一頁那個對 這個部分比較的部分你看互助教保部落互助教保中心法規依據已經有了那甚至園民會還提供了補助要點那麼在兩歲以下的兒童的部分其實剛剛說的"},{"start":288.727,"end":305.47,"text":"法源依據的部分主委我們現在已經可以跳脫事辦計畫了我們現在已經有法規依據了因為今年四月剛剛通過的兒童托育法裡面其實它在第十條已經有了讓我們也可以成立部落互助托育機構"},{"start":306.511,"end":335.469,"text":"等依循了 主委 魔法有了 法規有了所以我今天的問題是想要請問雖然這部兒童托育法的主責雖然托育中心的托育機構的主責是衛福部但你也知道我的觀念一向是告訴大家說園民會就是小行政院嘛我們包山包海所有族人相關的事務我們都需要去協助好 所以你必須跨部會來聯繫你必須跨部會請他不管軟的硬的又要拜託的"},{"start":336.349,"end":362.15,"text":"還是用跟上面行政院溝通也好反正這些業務就是必須要實施我的族人才可以得到照顧喔不然我這個屋來的爸爸媽媽有夠辛苦尤其是0到2歲最難顧的時候但是我在山上部落裡面就是沒有托育中心我每天要上班是要先把孩子帶到山下的新店送到托育中心我才可以去上班然後回來再去接孩子等於是耗錢又耗力嘛所以"},{"start":364.051,"end":385.146,"text":"我最終的目的就是我屋來要有托育中心屋來要有0到2歲的托育中心那我要怎麼突破我現在已經告訴你你看從法規依據有了4月有兒童托育法了甚至還有事辦計畫在前面給你看了那我就問你一執法什麼時候可以出來因為沒有執法的話事辦計畫是到今年12月31號就落日了"},{"start":386.847,"end":400.683,"text":"這是第一個請問原民會你有沒有辦法你是不是可以跟衛福部探討我們托育法的執法關於部落互助托育機構什麼時候可以正式上路這是第一個第二個原民問你是不是可以比照"},{"start":401.624,"end":429.94,"text":"部落互助教保服務中心的補助要點補助要點現在如果我們真的可以成立了部落互助的托育機構的時候你一樣給我們補助嘛那個補助的話你這個如果以前面來看的話它是合法教保人員專業家級補助教保中心籌備期間最長三個月的人事費業務費及租金我具體要求是不是可以比照辦理就這兩點執法的進度還有補助是不是可以比照辦理對"},{"start":430.9,"end":449.807,"text":"我也謝謝我們會比照剛剛講的就是那個叫我中心來所以補助你可以承諾嘛只要可以設置的話補助這樣那執法的進度呢那我們就趕快跟這個衛福部討論一下好不好因為這個事辦計畫就算我們要依事辦計畫也只到12月31號所以"},{"start":453.288,"end":462.533,"text":"今天已經是要快六月了所以我希望這個部分可以不管你有哪一種都好但是讓我的教保中心可以趕快可以設立謝謝主委 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:49.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:50.560000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請曾主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:56.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:56.492000+08:00","text":"請主委。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:56.492000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:57.812000+08:00","text":"蘇委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:57.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:22:58.033000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:22:58.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:23:03.054000+08:00","text":"主委，我今天想跟您討論的是關於原住民族的托育量能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:23:03.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:23:32.966000+08:00","text":"我今天在您的業務報告裡面看到提升原住民族健康照顧網絡，這樣的內容很不錯了，因為已經包含了長者照顧、社會安全網及就業保障，但是我覺得很可惜的是沒有提到對兒童照顧的部分，而這個部分剛好是我現在在新北市的原鄉烏來最常被族人朋友問到的問題，所以我想跟主委探討一下。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:23:33.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:24:10.125000+08:00","text":"主委，大家都知道，現在全國都希望能夠增加托育的量能，我們新北市29個區這麼多的行政區裡面，你看簡報上打勾的是已經有托育中心布建的單位，可是你看烏來，明明烏來新生兒人數至少還比後面的高，比深坑、石門、三芝、貢寮這些地方高，沒有錯，但是連深坑、三芝都有托育中心，為什麼烏來沒有辦法設立公共托育中心？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:24:10.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:24:12.646000+08:00","text":"主委，你知道原因嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:24:12.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:24:14.867000+08:00","text":"你對原鄉應該比其他人都更了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:24:16.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:24:27.447000+08:00","text":"就這個部分，目前對於各年齡層的照顧，就是這一塊漏掉了，我們會即刻跟衛福部反映，希望趕快補足這個缺口。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:24:27.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:24:37.615000+08:00","text":"你不能說是漏掉了，因為說實在，這確實是有一點難度，但是大家都很希望能夠幫忙解決。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:24:38.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:24:52.146000+08:00","text":"我們來看現在對原住民兒童的照顧，我剛剛說你們沒有提到兒童照顧，長輩提了、社會安全網提了、就業保障也提了，但我說你們沒有提到兒童照顧。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:24:52.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:02.833000+08:00","text":"其實以我們現在的制度來講，兒童可以分成零到兩歲、兩歲以下，我們叫做托育；二到六歲的話，我們就會以幼兒園為主，這個沒有問題。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:04.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:15.817000+08:00","text":"二到六歲幼兒園這個部分雖然以幼兒園為主，但是已經有部落互助教保服務中心為輔了，這沒有問題，對不對？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:15.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:16.237000+08:00","text":"這個上路了嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:16.237000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:19.018000+08:00","text":"上路了。好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:19.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:33.158000+08:00","text":"兩歲以下的兒童以公共托育中心為主，社會都認知到了，但是以部落互助托育機構為輔，比照剛剛的二到六歲，這個「為輔」的部分已經上路了嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:33.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:34.580000+08:00","text":"你知道有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:36.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:40.036000+08:00","text":"沒關係，如果有比較能夠……因為很細。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:40.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:40.917000+08:00","text":"二到六歲是有，零到兩歲沒有。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:42.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:25:52.387000+08:00","text":"零到兩歲的話，因為連法源都沒有，所以確實是沒有，但是也不能說完全沒有，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:25:52.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:26:04.774000+08:00","text":"我讓你看下一張簡報，衛福部有「原住民兒童零至二歲托育服務試辦計畫」，零到兩歲的部分就是因為沒有法源，所以我們現在的階段叫做試辦計畫，在113年5月1日開始實施到今年12月31日，這個試辦計畫的期程只有這樣。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:26:05.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:26:06.375000+08:00","text":"依據這個試辦計畫，據我的了解，應該是高雄跟屏東有了。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:26:20.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:26:20.478000+08:00","text":"有了這個計畫可以有什麼好處呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:26:20.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:26:21.198000+08:00","text":"剛剛原鄉托育中心設置困難的地方就有辦法可以突破，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:26:21.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:26:22.539000+08:00","text":"主委剛剛可能回答得不夠細緻，沒關係，我現在在烏來，因為跑太多了，所以我可以跟您反映。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:26:22.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:26:49.949000+08:00","text":"其實在原鄉之所以困難，第一個就是場域不好找，因為幼兒園、托育中心的場域都有嚴格的規定，我們在原鄉不見得可以找到這麼適當的地方，這是第一個──空間。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:26:49.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:27:10.418000+08:00","text":"第二個是人才的部分，不管是照顧兒童的部分、不管是托育或者是教保人才，其實都有人才難覓的問題，不管是在地培養的，或者是外面要引進的、要請他們來照顧的，人也很難找，所以才會出現了剛剛提到的幼兒園、部落互助教保服務中心等問題。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:27:11.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:27:51.211000+08:00","text":"主委，我給你看一下簡報，比較的部分，部落互助教保中心的法規依據已經有了，甚至原民會還提供了補助要點，在兩歲以下兒童的部分，其實剛剛說的法源依據的部分，主委，現在已經可以跳脫試辦計畫了，現在已經有法規依據，因為今年4月剛剛通過的兒童托育法第十條已經有了，讓我們也可以成立部落互助托育機構的依循了。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:27:51.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:28:27.535000+08:00","text":"主委，母法有了、法規有了，所以我今天的問題是想要請問，雖然這部兒童托育法的主責、雖然托育機構的主責是衛福部，但你也知道我的觀念一向是告訴大家，原民會就是小行政院，業務包山包海，對於所有族人相關的事務，原民會都需要去協助，所以你們必須跨部會來聯繫，不管軟的、硬的、用拜託的，還是跟上面行政院溝通也好，反正這些業務就是必須要實施，我的族人才可以得到照護。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:28:28.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:28:46.070000+08:00","text":"不然我們烏來的爸爸媽媽有夠辛苦，尤其零到兩歲的孩子正是最難顧的時候，但是山上部落裡面就是沒有托育中心，爸爸媽媽每天要先把孩子帶到山下的新店、送到托育中心，才可以去上班，然後回來再去接孩子，等於是耗錢又耗力。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:28:48.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:28:55.376000+08:00","text":"我最終的目的就是我們烏來要有零到兩歲的托育中心，我們要怎麼突破？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:28:55.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:02.822000+08:00","text":"我現在已經告訴你，你看有了法規依據，4月有兒童托育法了，甚至還有試辦計畫在前面給你看了。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:03.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:06.184000+08:00","text":"我就問你，子法什麼時候可以出來？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:06.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:12.129000+08:00","text":"因為沒有子法的話，試辦計畫是到今年12月30日就落日了，這是第一個。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:12.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:21.439000+08:00","text":"請問原民會有沒有辦法、是不是可以跟衛福部探討托育法的子法，關於部落互助托育機構什麼時候可以正式上路？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:21.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:22.481000+08:00","text":"這是第一個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:22.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:36.650000+08:00","text":"第二個，原民會是不是可以比照部落互助教保服務中心補助要點，現在如果真的可以成立部落互助托育機構的時候，你們一樣給予補助。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:37.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:50.198000+08:00","text":"至於這個補助，如果以前面來看的話，就是核發教保人員專業加給，補助教保中心籌備期間最長3個月的人事費、業務費及租金，我具體要求是不是可以比照辦理？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:50.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:29:53.920000+08:00","text":"就這兩點：子法的進度，還有補助是不是可以比照辦理。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:29:53.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:00.342000+08:00","text":"對，謝謝委員，我們會比照剛剛講的，就是教保中心來做……","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:00.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:01.562000+08:00","text":"所以補助你可以承諾嘛？對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:01.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:03.203000+08:00","text":"只要可以設置的話，補助上……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:03.203000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:05.304000+08:00","text":"對，就是比照那個……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:05.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:05.984000+08:00","text":"子法的進度呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:06.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:07.785000+08:00","text":"我們就趕快跟衛福部討論。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:08.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:10.586000+08:00","text":"跟衛福部討論一下，好不好？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:10.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:26.513000+08:00","text":"因為就算我們要依這個試辦計畫，也只到12月31日，今天已經快要6月了，所以我希望這個部分不管用哪一種都好，但是讓我們的教保中心可以趕快設立，謝謝主委。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:26.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:26.533000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席（許委員忠信代）","start":"2026-05-20T09:30:27.033000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T09:30:29.604429+08:00","text":"下一位請廖先翔委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}