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人民會你們僅僅在屏東 是不是因為你們的家鄉 我不知道啦齁只有一場 而且呢 人數少之又少我認為這不是量能不足 這根本就是把絕大部分的族人的需求當一回事我剛剛講掉 很希望不要因為某些立法委員 或者是"},{"start":179.677,"end":197.209,"text":"主委您是屏東人所以才做屏東所以我在5月5號的時候在我辦公室有要求中歸處必須要在花蓮跟台東為什麼是花蓮跟台東因為花蓮跟台東的民意代表還有人民憤怒啊對我辦公室來講啊"},{"start":198.51,"end":221.041,"text":"所以當時政會處的處長有答應必須要在一個月內競速開課這三個地方 對嗎 請問一下處長我跟委員報告有誤會 屏東不要再講那件事情了 屏東還沒有上課所以屏東也是在你們準備上課之一是不是當然我們北中南中高屏都要辦那現在是怎麼樣"},{"start":222.282,"end":236.348,"text":"那請問周孟柱處長請你正式的回答我5月5號在我們辦公室有花蓮跟台東的議員來陳情你答應我在一個月內要競速開課那現在主委又告訴我說是屏東也要開"},{"start":237.834,"end":263.532,"text":"還有哪些地方要開跟委員報告目前向本會提報希望地方政府要辦的地方政府共有屏東縣花蓮縣及台東縣三個縣他們都報計劃過來了已經報了嗎都已經送到一個月內要處理好不好是可以開課嗎特別跟委員報告就像上次協調會的時候一樣花蓮縣的代表當天其實也提出了很多需要我們協調處理的技術問題那我們已經把這個公文"},{"start":264.013,"end":278.671,"text":"只是他們如何做調整的公文都已經發下去請問一下一個月內能不能進速開課我們一定會在一個月內把這三個地方政府都請來當面協調幫忙另外因為有時間有限我們就很簡短的回應另外請教文書處長"},{"start":280.946,"end":306.735,"text":"請問一下 之前這個業務在中規處 是不是會移撥到您招文處現在未來的獵人的獵槍訓練會移撥到本處來處理好 您要準備怎麼做報委員 我們現在已經正正積極的研擬招報文件我們希望在5月底能夠上網招標然後在7月的時候開始受了我們族人的獵人的報名然後8月可以正式上網所以有包括住宿跟膳食費嗎 交通費嗎都有"},{"start":308.175,"end":328.851,"text":"交通熱線他們要治理,然後我們會提供上述的支持我跟各位理解的很快的,在這邊讓我的族人清楚的了解一個是五月底以前,就是一個月之內一個月之內,地方縣政府就是中規促在辦理的時候花蓮、台東、屏東三個一個月之內趕快開課,對吧?"},{"start":330.552,"end":345.802,"text":"因為這是地方政府要辦的嘛是然後五月以後挪到教文處的手上的時候你們會統籌辦理所以不再是地方政府辦了還是回歸到原民會辦了好謝謝主委你看一個那麼簡單的事情"},{"start":351.26,"end":362.558,"text":"你們搞了這麼久那麼複雜今天終於有個定案了接著我要問的是原住民聯絡道路的部分聯絡道路養護的經費對原鄉市的很重要"},{"start":364.184,"end":389.22,"text":"是不是很重要你們還沒有就任這個位置之前本席在112年到114年帶著原鄉的山長曾經到行政院去我們要到了1.7億的經費這1.7億的經費是要來完成原住民聯絡道路養護的經費做得非常好也非常需要也因此原鄉的道路"},{"start":390.08,"end":401.484,"text":"一個一個被維修一個一個被維護了可是在今年你們的預算只剩下6500萬一億元不見了請問主委你要怎麼處理你要怎麼跟族人交代跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":406.621,"end":420.113,"text":"那個我們現在要怎麼樣因應就是說在這個100本年度啦原住民族部落的特色這個道路韌性的提升計畫我們是核定7300多萬還有遺跡部落的建設我們是核定2626萬"},{"start":424.416,"end":433.68,"text":"養護經費的分配還有執行的計畫我問您的是這一個請您明確的告訴我我已經講得很清楚112年到114年本席我跟蘇貞昌院長爭取到了1.7億的部落養護經費因為我們一直在修道路一直在修道路但是呢沒有養護的錢而原鄉的養護很重要"},{"start":451.767,"end":466.632,"text":"每一個聯絡道路又那麼長當時我們是爭取到1.7億現在我只看到6千萬請問一下包委員因為怎麼辦以後那第一個部分就主要是因為採訪通過之後地方財源增加所以我們這部分經費相對簡略"},{"start":470.614,"end":479.219,"text":"因為地方財源增加所以新入縣在今年特別增加給尖石五峰各4千萬所以你的意思是說 爭取到的每年1.7億已經被中央打折打到6千萬了那以後這些錢就靠地方政府剩多少 8千萬"},{"start":491.866,"end":508.313,"text":"不夠的部分將近一億不夠是各縣市政府在財化法裡面要分配到原鄉的意思嗎我們現在一一六年還是希望能夠爭取回來元安二都我們目前正在爭取什麼時候要爭取我們現在提了一一六年需求的時候我們已經把我們需求提出來"},{"start":510.955,"end":520.601,"text":"1.15年沒有,只有1.16年有其他部分的話,我們用這個道路的計畫來支持能不能答應我,也告訴我們這個55個原住民鄉的鄉長們這個錢你們會找回來給他們?我們會去爭取爭取不到嗎?主委下台"},{"start":532.469,"end":541.233,"text":"還是怎麼樣我們還有其他計畫可以支持所以嘛你現在是不是告訴我們很正確明確的告訴我們的鄉長養護大陸的經濟還是有你們原來會把它沖下來可以嗎有好 謝謝來 第三個傳統領域的部分"},{"start":550.629,"end":565.255,"text":"主流我們在使用土地的時候根本就沒有所謂的公有私有的概念最高行政法院在112年度上至第487號的判決也清楚的指出傳統領域是不分公私有"},{"start":566.135,"end":582.754,"text":"原文會裡面當時也公開的說你們會通用檢討然後也會邀集學者專家全面檢視傳統領域畫色跟諮商同意的機制也會持續跟立法委員來充分討論請問將近一年了主委哪一項完成了"},{"start":585.273,"end":605.14,"text":"跟委員報告,其實我們在2014年做完判決之後我們從2014年10月8號開始,就辦理到我們下鄉去辦理三場傳統領域化社集體上同一個座談會那目前這三場座談會收集過來的意見的部分就是說贊成跟反對的部分,都沒有過半,換句話說這個部分是沒有共識的"},{"start":610.282,"end":612.444,"text":"道歉 道歉最高行政法院112年度上至第487號判決清楚地說傳統領域不分公私有"},{"start":625.576,"end":647.209,"text":"你們已經有了這麼樣的一個判決更何況台北市政府把這個有利族人的判決也列為精選的判決法律資料也特別的在討論其他的在野黨的團體也公開的支持傳統領域不分公私有整個大社會都是往前面走只有你們還在裝睡啦"},{"start":649.23,"end":676.568,"text":"各位報告那請你不要說現在的結果是怎麼樣那我合理的懷疑請你不要再解釋我合理懷疑我合理懷疑我們的民進黨政府尤其是園民會你們是不是在護航執政黨政府的能源署的地熱開發能源署大喇喇的說只要涉及原住民族公有土地者才需要資深同意主委"},{"start":677.749,"end":689.312,"text":"聽好,如果原民會是不站在原住民族土地權益這一邊,那你們是要怎麼樣向主人報告?原民會你還能做些什麼?主委請您回答有沒有混行這回事情?不會如果沒有混行,什麼時候能夠做好?"},{"start":699.952,"end":710.347,"text":"這麼多的判例已經說了而部落就因為這樣子的部分一直在有非常多的糾結跟困擾你們到底要不要解決我們的主人的問題"},{"start":713.811,"end":732.571,"text":"要解決我馬上就要審你們的預算了如果你們在這段時間還不處理還不給主任一個交代的話我會在預算書上面跟你們做一些主決議甚至於凍結你們預算其他很快說明一下還有什麼事情你們沒有做好抱歉再給我一點時間謝謝"},{"start":735.064,"end":754.371,"text":"現在地會原住民已經超過六成了除了你比我清楚 當時原住民發展條例的承諾第二會期會提出結果一年過去了 還是看不到喔請問這一年在幹嘛 在裝死 裝睡還是根本不在乎這件事情"},{"start":755.615,"end":784.093,"text":"主委你看你都沒辦法回答你今天要來這裡備詢你都不知道這件事我不知道主委你每天在幹什麼第二件事情代金業務你們1月答應的事情到現在也還沒做完第三個中發基金裁員的問題到現在也還沒有解決第四個更不要講長期以來我們原運包括你也在內我們原運一直在推動的原住民自治法土海法"},{"start":785.736,"end":809.768,"text":"520了賴總統任職520了連版本都還沒有這樣子一路看下來 園民會啊你們真的實在是沒有一件事情辦得好的呀如果園民會主委你在這裡的位置上你只是跑活動只是每一個地方去跟人家頒獎或者是做報告或者是"},{"start":811.794,"end":824.39,"text":"編了一大堆的錢然後去辦一個原住民的族人都不會在乎的一些節目八千萬就只剪了四集我講的是一個世界原住民大會"},{"start":825.987,"end":842.017,"text":"花了這麼多錢然後減了四個級然後如果人民會你們的根本只是在做這種事情的話我想這並不符合人民會存在的指標跟意義跟價值人民會"},{"start":843.118,"end":866.009,"text":"我們爭取來的這一個單位最重要的是捍衛原住民的尊嚴爭取原民會的原住民的預算讓原住民可以活在一個非常有尊嚴自治管理的路上可是這樣子看起來好像都沒有這個部分我們都有在努力就像原住民主運動會其實跟我們報告"},{"start":866.448,"end":884.284,"text":"有很多的族人他感覺很有尊榮感不是沒有喔那各項的這個我不管是在文化健康部我們也有在努力你們的感知跟感受跟基層的族人差很多你們的尊榮感只有在媒體上偶爾出現的那幾個畫面"},{"start":888.407,"end":909.158,"text":"畫面結束了 回到部落 要解決的問題還是沒有辦法解決該解決的問題 還是沒有辦法解決原住民的自治法 屠海法 援運走了這麼長一條路連一個版本都沒有 主委 要好好的檢討我希望 民視全民的 原住民的主委 不是某一個族人的"},{"start":910.069,"end":937.759,"text":"的主委我也希望您在這個位置上能夠替原住民的族人爭取最好的尊嚴而不是只是跑地方活動還有很多的事情必須要做給你鼓勵審預算的時候我會好好把關你們的預算到時候我剛剛以上說的這些沒有做好就別怪原住民的立法委員會凍結或者是刪除或做一些比較嚴格的主決議來監督你們"},{"start":939.16,"end":939.281,"text":"謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:11+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:12+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，有請主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:12+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:13+08:00","text":"請主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:13+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:14+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:12.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:17.508000+08:00","text":"主委，今天是520，賴總統就職已經2年了。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:19.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:31.992000+08:00","text":"如果要我給原民會打分數，我覺得原民會非常不及格，除了不及格之外，你們心裡面有沒有想到全臺灣原住民族的權利？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:33.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:36.114000+08:00","text":"我也打一個非常大的問號。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:36.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:40.075000+08:00","text":"馬上就要審你們的預算了，所以在這裡我有幾件事情要請教你。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:41.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:46.832000+08:00","text":"你有看到原住民的地方民意代表連署書嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:46.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:48.713000+08:00","text":"在網路上，非常氣憤！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:48.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:50.194000+08:00","text":"您看過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:50.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:52.555000+08:00","text":"主委，您看過沒有？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:52.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:25:54.216000+08:00","text":"你只要回答我看過沒有。有。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅：好，我唸一段給你聽","start":"2026-05-20T10:25:56.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:26:13.920000+08:00","text":"我們是各地方民意代表，今天共同連署，是因為許多原住民族人長期反映，不是不願意守法，也不是不願意受訓，而是我們想要走合法、安全的路，卻排不到課、等不到班。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅：好，我唸一段給你聽","start":"2026-05-20T10:26:15.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:26:21.926000+08:00","text":"原住民族狩獵不是犯罪，也不是特權，而是長久以來的生活、文化與傳承。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅：好，我唸一段給你聽","start":"2026-05-20T10:26:22.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:26:43.062000+08:00","text":"政府若要求族人依法使用、依法管理自製獵槍，就應該提供足夠、清楚、可參加的安全訓練，讓族人知道怎麼合法、怎麼安全，也讓地方政府與執法人員有一致的標準。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅：好，我唸一段給你聽","start":"2026-05-20T10:26:43.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:26:45.363000+08:00","text":"這是他們最卑微的要求！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅：好，我唸一段給你聽","start":"2026-05-20T10:26:45.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:26:47.065000+08:00","text":"主委，你怎麼看待這件事情？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:26:48.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:26:56.812000+08:00","text":"我想可能是大家有一點誤會，我們去年有開課，今年我們希望在北、中、南、東都能開這樣的訓練課程。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:03.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:13.050000+08:00","text":"因為這個比較特殊，我們必須協助他們找到合宜的場地，所以在審核上當然就沒有那麼快。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:14.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:35.139000+08:00","text":"我們今年5月已經發布採購公告，也有預計的人數：一個班最少30人、最多50人，希望今年可以有1,200人取得及格證書。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:35.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:44.161000+08:00","text":"主委，你必須承認，在5月5日之前，原民會其實沒有專心處理這件事情。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:44.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:44.922000+08:00","text":"我為什麼這麼說？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:46.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:51.745000+08:00","text":"因為原民會僅僅在屏東，是不是因為這是你的家鄉？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:51.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:52.165000+08:00","text":"我不知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:53.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:27:56.908000+08:00","text":"你們只在屏東辦一場，而且人數少之又少！","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:27:57.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:04.293000+08:00","text":"我認為這不是量能不足，而是根本就不把絕大部分族人的需求當一回事！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:05.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:23.446000+08:00","text":"我剛剛強調，很希望不要因為某些立法委員，或者因為主委是屏東人才在屏東辦，所以我5月5日在我辦公室要求綜規處必須在花蓮和臺東，為什麼是花蓮跟臺東？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:23.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:28.189000+08:00","text":"因為花蓮和臺東的民意代表和人民憤怒了，到我辦公室來講啦！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:29.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:36.033000+08:00","text":"所以當時綜規處的處長有答應要在1個月內儘速在這三個地方開課，對嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:36.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:36.334000+08:00","text":"請問一下處長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:36.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:39.015000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，這有誤會……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:39.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:40.896000+08:00","text":"不要再講那件事情了，我現在在講……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:42.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:44.278000+08:00","text":"屏東還沒有上課耶！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:44.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:47.559000+08:00","text":"所以屏東也在你們準備上課的地方之一，是不是？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:48.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:51.401000+08:00","text":"我們北、中、南、東、高屏都要辦啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:51.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:28:52.041000+08:00","text":"現在是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:28:53.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:10.575000+08:00","text":"請問綜規處處長，請你正式回答我，5月5日在我辦公室，有花蓮和臺東的議員來陳情，你答應我在1個月內要儘速開課，現在主委說屏東也要開，還有哪些地方要開？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"曾處長興中","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:10.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:20.222000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前向本會提報，希望要辦的地方政府共有屏東縣、花蓮縣和臺東縣這三個縣，他們都報計畫過來了。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:20.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:21.403000+08:00","text":"已經報了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾處長興中","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:21.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:21.763000+08:00","text":"都已經……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:22.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:23.324000+08:00","text":"好，1個月內要處理好不好？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:23.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:25.085000+08:00","text":"可以開課嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾處長興中","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:25.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:37.456000+08:00","text":"特別跟委員報告，就像當初協調會的時候一樣，花蓮縣的代表當天其實也提出很多需要我們協調、處理的技術問題，我們已經把指示他們如何進行調整的公文都發下去了，而且……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:37.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:40.079000+08:00","text":"好，請問1個月內能不能儘速開課？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"曾處長興中","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:40.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:44.184000+08:00","text":"我們一定會在1個月內把這三個地方政府都請來當面協調，幫忙他們把……","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:46.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:48.990000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，時間有限，你們就很簡短地回應好不好？","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:48.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:49.671000+08:00","text":"另外請教文處處長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:51.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:29:56.948000+08:00","text":"請問一下，之前這個業務在綜規處，現在是不是會移撥到你們教文處？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-05-20T10:29:57.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:00.629000+08:00","text":"未來獵人的獵槍訓練會移撥到本處來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:01.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:02.530000+08:00","text":"好，你們準備怎麼做？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:03.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:15.134000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們正在積極研擬招標文件，希望5月底能夠上網招標，7月開始受理族人獵人報名，8月可以正式……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:15.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:17.715000+08:00","text":"所以有包括住宿和膳食費嗎？都有。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:19.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:19.555000+08:00","text":"交通費呢？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:19.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:24.279000+08:00","text":"交通費是他們自理，我們會提供食宿的支持。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:24.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:28.262000+08:00","text":"我可不可以在這邊很清楚地讓我們的族人清楚瞭解？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:28.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:31.224000+08:00","text":"第一個是5月底以前，就是……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:31.224000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:32.224000+08:00","text":"上網公告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:31.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:39.831000+08:00","text":"1個月之內，綜規處在辦理的時候，三個地方政府：花蓮、臺東、屏東，1個月之內趕快開課，對吧？","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:41.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:43.553000+08:00","text":"因為這是地方政府要辦的嘛！是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:45.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:51.699000+08:00","text":"5月以後挪到教文處手上的時候，你們會統籌辦理，對吧？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:51.699000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:52.919000+08:00","text":"是的，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:52.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:54.721000+08:00","text":"所以不再是地方政府辦了？是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:54.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:55.821000+08:00","text":"還是回歸到原民會辦了？是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:55.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:30:56.121000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:30:56.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:06.046000+08:00","text":"主委，你看，一個那麼簡單的事情，你們搞了這麼久、那麼複雜，今天終於有個定案了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:07.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:10.293000+08:00","text":"接著我要問的是原住民聯絡道路的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:11.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:15.745000+08:00","text":"聯絡道路養護經費對原鄉是不是很重要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:15.745000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:17.506000+08:00","text":"是，非常重要。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:17.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:49.123000+08:00","text":"您還沒有就任主委之前，本席曾經在112年到114年帶著原鄉的鄉長到行政院去，我們要到了1.7億的經費，這1.7億是用於完成原住民聯絡道路養護的經費，做得非常好，也非常需要，也因此原鄉道路一條一條被維修、一條一條被維護了，可是今年你們的預算只剩下6,500萬元，1億元不見了啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:50.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:50.983000+08:00","text":"請問主委，你要怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:51.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:52.163000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼跟族人交代？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:52.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:31:59.162000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在要怎麼樣因應？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:31:59.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:32:11.113000+08:00","text":"在本年度原住民族部落特色道路韌性的提升計畫，我們是核定七千三百多萬，還有宜居部落的建設，我們是核定2,626萬，還有……","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:32:15.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:32:49.969000+08:00","text":"養護經費的分配還有執行的計畫，我問您的是這一個，請您明確告訴我，我已經講得很清楚，112年到114年，本席我跟蘇貞昌院長爭取到了1.7億的部落養護經費，因為我們一直在修道路、一直在修道路，但是沒有養護的錢，而原鄉的養護很重要，每一個聯絡道路又那麼長，當時我們是爭取到1.7億，現在我只看到6,000萬。","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:32:49.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:32:52.110000+08:00","text":"請問一下以後怎麼辦？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:32:53.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:32:57.612000+08:00","text":"報告委員，第一個部分，主要是因為財劃法通過之後，地方財源增加，所以我們這部分經費相對減列……","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:32:57.612000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:32:59.613000+08:00","text":"減列以後怎麼辦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:32:59.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:01.614000+08:00","text":"我們想知道要怎麼辦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:01.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:06.997000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，因為地方財源增加，所以新路線在今年特別增加給尖石、五峰各4,000萬……","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:06.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:07.797000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:07.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:08.797000+08:00","text":"目前他們是用這些錢來做……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:08.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:09.778000+08:00","text":"對不起、對不起，你的意思是爭取到的每年1.7億已經被中央打折打到6,000萬了，以後這些錢就靠地方政府……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:09.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:10.778000+08:00","text":"八千多萬。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:09.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:10.219000+08:00","text":"現在只剩多少？8,000萬？對。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:22.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:30.289000+08:00","text":"不夠的部分將近1億，是各縣市政府在財劃法裡面要分配到原鄉的意思嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:30.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:34.311000+08:00","text":"我們現在116年還是希望能夠爭取回來原來的額度，我們目前正在爭取，到時候請委員……","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:35.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:35.992000+08:00","text":"什麼時候爭取？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:36.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:39.313000+08:00","text":"現在提116年需求的時候，我們已經把我們需求提出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:41.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:43.576000+08:00","text":"所以115年沒有，只有116年有？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:44.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:47.058000+08:00","text":"減列的部分，其他部分我們用特色道路的計畫來支持，所以我們已經給七千……","quality":0.484},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:47.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:50.200000+08:00","text":"可不可以答應我，也告訴我們55個原住民鄉的鄉長們，這個錢你們會找回來給他們？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:50.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:50.521000+08:00","text":"我們會去爭取。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:50.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:33:51.081000+08:00","text":"爭取不到呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:33:51.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:34:04.009000+08:00","text":"主委下臺還是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉處長維哲","start":"2026-05-20T10:34:04.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:34:05.410000+08:00","text":"我們還有其他計畫可以支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:34:05.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:34:11.393000+08:00","text":"所以你現在是不是告訴我們，很正確、明確的告訴我們的鄉長，養護道路的經費還是有，你們原民會把它撐下來，可以嗎？有。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:34:11.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:34:11.693000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:34:11.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:34:51.171000+08:00","text":"第三個，傳統領域的部分，我們在使用土地的時候，根本就沒有所謂的公有、私有的概念，最高行政法院在112年度上字第487號的判決，也清楚指出傳統領域是不分公私有，原民會當時也公開的說你們會通案檢討，也會邀集學者專家全面檢視傳統領域劃設跟諮商同意的機制，也會持續跟立法委員充分討論。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:34:51.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:34:53.734000+08:00","text":"請問將近一年了，主委，哪一項完成了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝處長亞杰","start":"2026-05-20T10:34:56.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:35:14.900000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實在114年最高行政法院做完判決之後，我們從114年的10月8日開始就下鄉辦理三場傳統領域劃設及諮商同意的座談會，目前這三場座談會蒐集過來的意見，贊成跟反對的部分……","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:35:14.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:35:15.900000+08:00","text":"講結論，不好意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝處長亞杰","start":"2026-05-20T10:35:15.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:35:21.302000+08:00","text":"贊成跟反對的部分，其實都沒有過半，換句話說，這個部分是沒有共識的……抱歉……","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"謝處長亞杰","start":"2026-05-20T10:35:21.302000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:35:22.302000+08:00","text":"學者專家的部分，他們也是建議在法律途徑……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:35:21.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:35:58.189000+08:00","text":"最高行政法院112年度上字第487號判決，清楚提到傳統領域不分公私有，你們已經有了這樣的一個判決，更何況臺北市政府把這個有利族人的判決也列為精選的判決，法律資料也特別討論，其他在野黨的團體也公開支持傳統領域不分公私有，整個大社會都是往前面走，只有原民會你們還在裝睡啦！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"謝處長亞杰","start":"2026-05-20T10:35:58.189000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:01.171000+08:00","text":"不是，跟委員報告……","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:01.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:03.152000+08:00","text":"那請你告訴我現在的結果是怎麼樣……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝處長亞杰","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:03.152000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:04.333000+08:00","text":"最高行政法院那個只是個案的判決……","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:04.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:05.454000+08:00","text":"我合理的懷疑……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝處長亞杰","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:05.454000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:07.315000+08:00","text":"我們要從法律的層面去解決……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:07.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:09.416000+08:00","text":"請你閉嘴，請你不要再解釋。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:09.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:20.764000+08:00","text":"我合理懷疑民進黨政府，尤其是原民會，你們是不是在護航執政黨政府能源署的地熱開發？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:20.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:26.828000+08:00","text":"能源署大剌剌的說只要涉及原住民族公有土地者才需要諮商同意。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:27.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:28.749000+08:00","text":"主委聽好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:29.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:37.672000+08:00","text":"如果原民會不站在原住民族土地權益這一邊，你們要怎麼樣向族人報告？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:38.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:39.032000+08:00","text":"原民會還能做些什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:39.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:39.772000+08:00","text":"主委，請您回答，有沒有護航這回事情？不會。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:39.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:36:40.292000+08:00","text":"如果沒有護航，什麼時候能夠做好？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:36:50.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:04.811000+08:00","text":"這麼多的判例已經說了，而部落就因為這樣子，一直有非常多的糾結跟困擾，你們到底要不要解決我們族人的問題，要嗎？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:04.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:05.811000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:05.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:07.074000+08:00","text":"要解決？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:07.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:18.466000+08:00","text":"好，我馬上就要審你們的預算了，如果你們在這段時間還不處理，還不給族人一個交代的話，我會在預算書上面給你們做一些主決議，甚至於凍結你們預算。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:19.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:23.571000+08:00","text":"很快說明一下還有什麼事情你們沒有做好，抱歉，再給我一點時間，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:26.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:40.849000+08:00","text":"現在都會原住民已經超過六成了，主委你比我清楚，都市原住民族發展條例承諾第2會期會提出，結果一年過去了還是看不到，請問這一年在幹嘛？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:41.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:45.351000+08:00","text":"在裝死、裝睡，還是根本不在乎這件事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:46.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:53.659000+08:00","text":"主委，你看你都沒辦法回答，你今天要來這裡備詢，你都不知道這件事，我不知道主委你每天在幹什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:37:53.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:37:59.643000+08:00","text":"第二件事情，代金業務，你們1月答應的事情，到現在也還沒做完。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:38:00.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:38:06.227000+08:00","text":"第三個，綜發基金裁員的問題到現在也還沒有解決。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:38:06.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:11.997000+08:00","text":"第四個，更不要講長期以來，我們原運，包括你也在內，我們原運一直在推動的原住民自治法、土海法，520了，賴總統任職520了，連版本都還沒有，一路看下來，原民會你們真的實在是沒有一件事情辦得好，如果原民會，主委在這裡的位置上，你只是跑活動、只是每一個地方去給人家頒獎，或者是做報告，或者是編了一大堆的錢，然後去辦一個根本原住民族人都不會在乎的一些節目，8,000萬就只剪了4集，我講的是世界原住民大會，花了這麼多錢，剪了4集，如果原民會的功能只是在做這件事情，我想這並不符合原民會存在的指標、意義跟價值。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:12.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:32.107000+08:00","text":"原民會，我們爭取來的這個單位，最重要的是捍衛原住民的尊嚴，爭取原住民的預算，讓原住民可以活在一個非常有尊嚴自治管理的路上，可是這樣子看起來，好像都沒有。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:32.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:40.771000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我們都有在努力，就像原住民族運動會，跟委員報告，有很多的族人感覺很有尊榮感，不是沒有。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:42.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:39:47.737000+08:00","text":"各項不管是在文化、健康部分，我們也在努力……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:39:48.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:05.730000+08:00","text":"主委，你們的感知、感受跟基層的族人差很多，你們的尊榮感只有在媒體上偶而出現的那幾個畫面，畫面結束了，回到部落，要解決的問題還是沒有辦法解決，該解決的問題還是沒有辦法解決。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:05.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:33.313000+08:00","text":"原住民的自治法、土海法，原運走了這麼長一條路，連一個版本都沒有，主委要好好檢討，您是全民的原住民主委，不是某一個族人的主委，我也希望您在這個位置上，能夠替原住民的族人爭取最好的尊嚴，而不是只是跑地方活動，還有很多的事情必須要做，好嗎？是。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"高金委員素梅","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:34.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:50.160000+08:00","text":"給你鼓勵，審預算的時候，我會好好把關你們的預算，到時候我剛剛以上說的這些沒有做好，就別怪原住民的立法委員會凍結，或者是刪除，或做一些比較嚴格的主決議來監督你們，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:50.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:50.281000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:50.781000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:40:58.495286+08:00","text":"因為王安祥委員到了，我們就待王安祥委員質詢完之後再行休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:40:58.795286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:04.509571+08:00","text":"下一位丁學忠委員、丁學忠委員，丁學忠委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:04.809571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:10.523857+08:00","text":"下一位鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:10.823857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:16.538143+08:00","text":"下一位鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:16.838143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:22.552429+08:00","text":"下一位何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:22.852429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:28.566714+08:00","text":"下一位羅明才委員、羅明才委員，羅明才委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-05-20T10:41:28.866714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-05-20T10:41:32.581000+08:00","text":"下一位請王安祥委員發言質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}